View Full Version : VE commodore
Motor Mag has published pictures of the VE commodore...looks pretty much like Torana, wasnt what I expected.
OMG ITS A FAKE.....RIP OFF OF A SATURN AURA!!
fpv_gtho
06-12-2005, 10:42 PM
Link doesnt work, but ive seen the pics anyway. I dont think we'll get to see what the VE really looks like untill its actually announced, is way to early for anyone to have concrete evidence over the styling.
Link doesnt work, but ive seen the pics anyway. I dont think we'll get to see what the VE really looks like untill its actually announced, is way to early for anyone to have concrete evidence over the styling.
Motor seem pretty confident that this is it. Why else would they label it as being the VE, not 'Might be'. Itl probably change as far as the front and rear bumper cosmetics go.
holdens
06-12-2005, 11:30 PM
yeah the link dont work... does anyone have any pictures of it though? i havent seen any..
yeah the link dont work... does anyone have any pictures of it though? i havent seen any..
changed settings to public i think it should work now...or it might not
SlickHolden
06-13-2005, 01:53 AM
I also think they are a little off with the design of it, You can still see the VT top and VY-VZ front. I really expected to see more Torana then that drawing.
But after seeing them pics thats a little more on the lines of what it could be them pic's are way differnt from what wheels and motor have showed in the past.
Mean looking front but a little soft at the rear.
Got a little Audi holden has always liked Audi cars. But them wheels are shit:p
fpv_gtho
06-13-2005, 02:10 AM
Yeah the rear end is pretty weak, one of the reasons i doubt its close to the real thing. If its following this Torana theme, it'll be interesting to see how they go with rear spoilers etc as it doesnt look like it could blend in that well, much like spoilers on the Monaro
SlickHolden
06-13-2005, 02:33 AM
Yea thats what i thought also, If that was a VE where was the wing?
The front was fine even the door skins want bad but the VY-VZ had that bigger rear look thats like this little skinny arse look lol. Something missing there thats for sure.
They got the flared guards going it's not bad really just the rear will have to be worked at, But they got 8-14 months they might shock us with that car but new rear end. Looks like a Audi to me at the rear.
SlickHolden
06-13-2005, 02:39 AM
Got a bigger pic here.
And when i look at it i got 3 words.... Audi-Vectra-Torana
http://forums.justcommodores.com.au/attachment.php?attachmentid=2482
fpv_gtho
06-13-2005, 03:17 AM
well for the most part all these drawings look too small to me, most people reckon the VE will be a larger car overall (interestingly as the 2007 Falcon will be smaller). its interesting hough that even 2 years ago when the Opel Insignia concept was released, everyone thought that was a clue to VE and yet its still got common themes with the Vectra and Torana
whiteballz
06-13-2005, 03:21 AM
its a blown up vextra/astra/torana/ with an audi arse....
2ndclasscitizen
06-13-2005, 03:59 AM
in the com-gens in MOTOR it looks really big. the front looks like it does because a) of that global face crap and b) so the monaros and utes don't llok to different
SlickHolden
06-13-2005, 04:08 AM
Still see so much of the SSX in them pic's.
fpv_gtho
06-13-2005, 04:15 AM
Well the SSX has probably had a strong influence since the VZ already, in the HSV range and on the Monaro
SlickHolden
06-13-2005, 04:28 AM
The first pic up top from side on looks ok. The rear fits in better, But it still looks funny at the rear it maybe needs a Monaro boot lid type of thing??
Maybe a straight ruler type wing might suit it ok? Can anyone stick a wing on it at all?
fpv_gtho
06-13-2005, 04:34 AM
well if you think a small ruler type wing might look the part, how do you think the car will look next year lowered a few inches with the supercar kit on there :p
SlickHolden
06-13-2005, 04:38 AM
It would take some thinking on there part to make a kit for it:D
fpv_gtho
06-13-2005, 04:43 AM
might already have something thought up, like how Ford were allowed the XR front in '99 for their car
SlickHolden
06-13-2005, 06:11 AM
I laugh at this years front. It's the VZ but it's still very much the VY's Front.
To tell the differnts in the VY-VZ you got to look extra hard at the grill, Thats about it.
fpv_gtho
06-13-2005, 06:35 AM
sometimes the headlights look like theyre dipped down towards the centre, thats usually something odd that i seem to notice about radisich's and wilson's cars, but yeah other than that, its just a wider grille thats more pronouced around the headlights
SlickHolden
06-13-2005, 06:55 AM
I thought the VZ front might be better for them with cooling but they never went that way. Was thinking they could ram some cold air up there better:)
I just hope they dont have the VE vs the BA in 06-07 you think they might wait till the new Ford is out.
Blue Supra
06-13-2005, 06:47 PM
ok its the VE, wooohooo
i want to know what this is! :eek:
(open it and look up the top)
ok its the VE, wooohooo
i want to know what this is! :eek:
(open it and look up the top)
If you couldnt read it, its a picture that some guy shot of a VZ Commodore wagon at Alice Springs Airport being put into the cargo hold of a 747 freighter. It was packing a 6.0L LS2 (Gen IV) and quad pipes, with chevrolet badges.
SlickHolden
06-14-2005, 01:09 AM
They did a bad job of hideing that one.
Bad idea making it into a Wagon since everyone knows the wagon is on it's last leg.
But other then quad exhaust how do they know it's the GEN4 ? Didnt see the badge and wouldnt be suprised if the real VE is on another flight lol:D
fpv_gtho
06-14-2005, 02:54 AM
It raises a few questions over what the hell theyre doing, the US is pretty interested in the wagon, it could be badged as a Chevy Nova, put alonside the ute as the El Camino, the sedan as a Lumina and the Monaro (just plain Monaro, c/c and all) sold as a Chevy Chevelle
Ive seen equal claims saying Holden will stick with the LS1, Holden will take a detuned LS2 and Holden will take the LS4 so i think too many people think theyve got a secret scoop
XabiAlonso14
06-14-2005, 04:00 AM
My Dealer Principal(i work for a holden dealer) is on the design board and has confirmed that these images in MOTOR are pretty much the VE. Minus a few bits and pieces of course but the VZ look front end is staying into the first series of VE.
SlickHolden
06-14-2005, 04:05 AM
There hideing this a bit more then in the past,
If the yanks want the Wagon maybe they might need to keep it up for the VE. That might hurt any chance of getting a holden made SUV.
The LS2 might be ok for base models as option V8 again. Even the Berlina calais and statesman caprice. But the SS and Monaro have got to go to a new level now with this extra weight they are pushing. Unless they grab it by the nads and boost it to 275kw Monaro, 265kw SS?.
I think they could look into HSV's ways of grabbing 270kw.
fpv_gtho
06-14-2005, 04:10 AM
I think it was Bluey i went through this with before, but if they can still get ahold of LS1's, theyre not limited to what they can do. Theres 250kw, 260kw, 270kw and 285kw versions of the engine theyve come up with, but yeah the extra weight of VE will push things along abit.
SlickHolden
06-14-2005, 04:15 AM
The 270 might be good for the Monaro but it will be better for the SS.
The old cars weight was about 1600kg this could be 1750-1850kg :eek: The 285 would be best but 270 is a good start:)
fpv_gtho
06-14-2005, 04:21 AM
1850 would make it heavier than the BA's, but considering it'll be newer, so confirming to stricter crash test laws, and be larger than the outgoing commo, i suppose its possible.
SlickHolden
06-14-2005, 04:26 AM
All the ford jokes about going on a diet will come back to haunt the Holden boys now:p
SLimfast might help it:D
I think alot of people wont mind if it's safer and handles better at lower speeds on the ruff like the the BA. then some will only like it if it's better around a track then the V:D
fpv_gtho
06-14-2005, 04:41 AM
haha, jenny craig, has anyone got the number for jenny craig :p
depending on where its heavier will have a big effect as you say, a stronger shell overall wont harm it except for the general weight increase. heavier roof of course will raise the CoG, heavier suspension will lower CoG etc....
the BA's replacement though being smaller should be lighter though, as well as Ford intentionally making it lighter after how embarrased they were over the BAs kerb weight. it'll definately be interesting to see how they both play things
Why would Ford want to make the 07 model smaller??
fpv_gtho
06-14-2005, 04:58 AM
more sporty, lower weight. barely anyone buys them as a family car anymore, so whilst the Territory has a stranglehold on its market, it frees up what Ford can do with the Falcon, so i suppose theyre choosing to reinforce its performance credentials
fpv_gtho
06-14-2005, 05:03 AM
it will also reflect less interest in the LWB models, so both LWB and SWB are supposedly being reshuffled, so despite being smaller overall, there'll always be a bigger Falcon available it seems
hmmm....Fleet is the main buyer of the Falcon, Commodore so if the Falcon becomes too much smaller will it affect its fleet credentials.
fpv_gtho
06-14-2005, 05:12 AM
Its very possible, but Tom Gormans gone on record saying he wants to make profits, not sales numbers. As it stands, Ford makes more money on the Territory than they do the Falcon, but thats on a unit per unit basis. Falcon still outsells the Territry at about 2:1 for the sedan. If Ford increase their plant production on the near future though, they could try cater for more sports based private buyers as well as the fleets still though, considering the demand for current XR6's it could work
yea, i wonder wat impact the VE will have on falcon sales...i guess it all depends on what Ford gives us in September
fpv_gtho
06-14-2005, 05:21 AM
Fords draw card lately has been a better driving car, and whilst most people will say with the Clubsport and GT etc, the Clubby is better when driven to the extreme, but its about 50/50, saying the Falcons are better right up to that point.
The VE being a new era car and launched a year earlier could have a substantial effect. If its styling bombs, it could drive sales to Ford and relieve some pressure. If its a massive success, Ford will need to make sure they can crack Holdens stranglehold
...i doubt Holden will screw the styling (not that im entirely impressed with the images released so far).... i hope ford get off their asses and do a proper job on series 3... none of this mk2 no changes more standard featues crap...not many people want to buy large car thats been the same since 2002 - 2006
Blitz_
06-14-2005, 05:45 AM
do u think there will be a series 3? im not sure, well im skeptical as to whether or not they will release a third series. For one, i hope they do. If they do then i hope and pray that they will alter the design of the BA, in a good way of course. I have no clue as to what external alterations will occur, but i have confidence in ford. One thing i do hope for is a greater distinction between the xr6 and xr8 models. At the moment im hoping for dual exhuasts for the xr8 with new rims and rear spoiler or front bumber accents etc, and for the xr6 a better looking exhuast, and vents on the bonnet. If something like that happens then i will be a happy man, so will my dad coz we'll probably buy one :D, that or a territory.
As for the VE, im not in love with that design at all to be perfectly honest. And i disagree with the previous statement that it is the closest thing to the VE, its a professional chop and my guess is that it has been done by a professional designer employed by the mag. Anyhow, it's sure got hints of audi in it, well i think too much, and that front grill area is phat. Oh well, it will probably be alot different than those pics. Remember the early BA pics?
do u think there will be a series 3? im not sure, well im skeptical as to whether or not they will release a third series. For one, i hope they do. If they do then i hope and pray that they will alter the design of the BA, in a good way of course. I have no clue as to what external alterations will occur, but i have confidence in ford. One thing i do hope for is a greater distinction between the xr6 and xr8 models. At the moment im hoping for dual exhuasts for the xr8 with new rims and rear spoiler or front bumber accents etc, and for the xr6 a better looking exhuast, and vents on the bonnet. If something like that happens then i will be a happy man, so will my dad coz we'll probably buy one :D, that or a territory.
As for the VE, im not in love with that design at all to be perfectly honest. And i disagree with the previous statement that it is the closest thing to the VE, its a professional chop and my guess is that it has been done by a professional designer employed by the mag. Anyhow, it's sure got hints of audi in it, well i think too much, and that front grill area is phat. Oh well, it will probably be alot different than those pics. Remember the early BA pics?
There is definately a series 3 coming in september, which will fight the VE and should last until the next Falcon in 2007
And i disagree with the previous statement that it is the closest thing to the VE, its a professional chop and my guess is that it has been done by a professional designer employed by the mag.
I dont reckon that design is TOO far from the truth...it seems logical that Holden would use the Torana as a test to see how people reacted to the design, giving them a year to perfect it.
Blitz_
06-14-2005, 08:24 AM
lol didnt have to quote my whole post and double post :) but i still thinks that ve commo will be a good mix of ssx and torana
SlickHolden
06-14-2005, 08:36 AM
haha, jenny craig, has anyone got the number for jenny craig :p
depending on where its heavier will have a big effect as you say, a stronger shell overall wont harm it except for the general weight increase. heavier roof of course will raise the CoG, heavier suspension will lower CoG etc....
the BA's replacement though being smaller should be lighter though, as well as Ford intentionally making it lighter after how embarrased they were over the BAs kerb weight. it'll definately be interesting to see how they both play things
Don't ask me they kicked me out lol :p
I think the front of the VE is on the mark, How ever them rims and rear don't go in my book, Side on it's not bad but the rear is a liitle off.
About 5-6 years ago holden was talking about Audi and how they liked there thing,
They wanted a Small ish car with big power... Along comes the Torana.
If they could make the Torana rear in that VE drawing then it wont be to bad.
But i think that VE rear looks as much like a Magna:eek:
lol didnt have to quote my whole post and double post :)
ok ok i couldnt really be bothered to start changin and editing and stuff so i just posted twice hahaha
fpv_gtho
06-15-2005, 03:17 AM
yeah theres definately gunna be an update at the end of the year, its yet to be known though what designation it carries though, be it mark 3, series 3 (maybe 2 if they switch to series) or BC etc...
SlickHolden
06-15-2005, 09:16 AM
Maybe a VX-VY comeing in here... BC sounds good before christ:)
fpv_gtho
06-15-2005, 09:29 PM
Well this is actuall Fords VZ update, if you align it with Holdens strategy. Mk2 was VY2
SlickHolden
06-18-2005, 01:01 AM
So maybe a new design on the look i think the rear does need a update but not to much to the front cause thats it's meal ticket there it's mean from front on with buldge:)
fpv_gtho
06-18-2005, 02:15 AM
It'll still only be minor, no sheetmetal changes, just the plastic bits
SlickHolden
06-18-2005, 05:59 AM
Wonder if they will toss some or as much of the new shape in, Give us a look into there plans for the future. Maybe see some straight lines not as much as the VY but.
fpv_gtho
06-18-2005, 06:39 AM
They wouldnt need to, basically in cars like the new Focus, Mondeo, Fiesta, and some of the new US sedans its got the global DNA that they want. The only thing different will be they wanted to take it a step further with Falcon, although out hotter climate will make it tricky with their 3 plate grille
SlickHolden
06-18-2005, 05:58 PM
I don't mind the new Focus in 4 door. I havent been a fan of it since it's been here, But now the front looks a o k :) Might see some air vents with the bonnet buldge this time:)
SlickHolden
06-19-2005, 12:40 AM
It's guess work KOS and i both seen that rear and thought:eek: That aint gunna work:p
fpv_gtho
06-19-2005, 02:51 AM
:mad: VE pics are fake
Geez what gives you that impression
Matt_B
07-14-2005, 07:53 PM
Have you heard about the next Falcon?
If not ur in for a suprise!!!
Picture this a Mazda 6 with a Falcon Badge on it!!!!
True story
info from Wheels Mag!
no v8s or rear wheel drive either
just 4cyl FF and 3.0L 6cyl FF
fpv_gtho
07-14-2005, 08:18 PM
Hate to break it to you, but Ford have practically confirmed the Falcon to be RWD, I6 and V8 for the next 10 years at least. There was one rumour that to slash costs, it would be moved to the Mazda6 platform, but that rumours about 6 months old.
Have you heard about the next Falcon?
If not ur in for a suprise!!!
Picture this a Mazda 6 with a Falcon Badge on it!!!!
True story
info from Wheels Mag!
no v8s or rear wheel drive either
just 4cyl FF and 3.0L 6cyl FF
Sorry but that is 100% incorrect info. In short, no no & no :D
SlickHolden
07-15-2005, 12:10 PM
I also herd holden was only going to use Dawoo cars with 2.2lt donks:D
Bloody wheels they are rumor makers.
"Given that Holden is hardly likely to show us the VE 12 months out from launch we have to do what journalists are paid to do and investigate. This has been an ongoing investigation since September last year. Piecing together hundreds of tidbits of info, gleaned from dozens of interviews with engineers, designers and suppliers both here and abroad, it was not until the July issue that we'd put together enough of the picture for our illustrator.
And you are right that we used the Saturn as both background and the centre of the car. We also used Holden's own Torana show car (which we pointed out in the article), an Audi A8 (boot line), a BMW 5-series (rear window glass) and the HRTE Maloo show car (wheels and flares).
I suppose the final answer will come when the car is launched in 2006. I'm
confident we are pretty close to the mark."
Jesse Taylor
editor
MOTOR
....since the topics come back up bout next gen locals, das wat jesse sent me bout 'VE'
SlickHolden
07-16-2005, 06:42 AM
There right holden won't let anything out of the bag right now this close to the launch.
But i still think they are off it's design a bit. In there pic's they might have only got the front right the side was a little off and the rear just didn't look like it could hold a wing or lower body kit.
fpv_gtho
07-17-2005, 02:35 AM
"Given that Holden is hardly likely to show us the VE 12 months out from launch we have to do what journalists are paid to do and investigate. This has been an ongoing investigation since September last year. Piecing together hundreds of tidbits of info, gleaned from dozens of interviews with engineers, designers and suppliers both here and abroad, it was not until the July issue that we'd put together enough of the picture for our illustrator.
And you are right that we used the Saturn as both background and the centre of the car. We also used Holden's own Torana show car (which we pointed out in the article), an Audi A8 (boot line), a BMW 5-series (rear window glass) and the HRTE Maloo show car (wheels and flares).
I suppose the final answer will come when the car is launched in 2006. I'm
confident we are pretty close to the mark."
Jesse Taylor
editor
MOTOR
....since the topics come back up bout next gen locals, das wat jesse sent me bout 'VE'
You couldnt let it rest, could you :p
Have you heard about the next Falcon?
Don't worry matt we don't all hate you, we appreciate your enthusiasm. ;)
Its sad to see Wheels resorting to this 'Womans Day' rumour crap, they have to spend all this time developing an article to start a rumour about the VE. I wish they could develop somthing with substance.
2ndclasscitizen
07-18-2005, 12:20 AM
Thats why i read MOTOR
fpv_gtho
07-18-2005, 12:25 AM
Thats why i read MOTOR
They seem to get closer to the mark, mor often than wheels which is stupid as theyre owned and printed by the same bloody people
2ndclasscitizen
07-18-2005, 12:33 AM
I reckon its because Wheels has to test all the family sleds and MOTOR gets all the cool stuff that the Wheels guys get bored and make shit up
IBrake4Rainbows
07-18-2005, 12:38 AM
I trust wheels more than Motor. But this is just stirring.
Motor doesn't get to test the cool stuff, Georg Kacher does because he can report everywhere in the world.
He is my Idol.
fpv_gtho
07-18-2005, 12:41 AM
its a possibility i suppose, perhaps they both just seperate all the conflicting info they get and see what they each can come up with
SlickHolden
07-18-2005, 04:03 AM
Good Stuff Not as Good Stuff...:p
They seem to get closer to the mark, mor often than wheels which is stupid as theyre owned and printed by the same bloody people
here here
You couldnt let it rest, could you :p
yea i waz a bit hyped ova it