to shuffle, or not to shuffle [Archive] - Ultimatecarpage.com forums

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targa

07-08-2005, 10:18 PM

right now i have a MiniDisc player, but i find it a bit troublesome at times, because of the changing of the discs and the amount of space that can be had on other players. i have decided to buy an iPod. originally i was going to buy an iPod Shuffle-1gig, because its half of the cost of 20gig version, and also quite a bit smaller, but it also only has 1/20 of the storage....

i cant decide which to buy, each has its plus' and minus'

i have not owned, or used either that much, and i was hoping someone could give me some advice whether i should spring for the 20 gig version instrad of the shuffle, i know a few of you own the full size, 20 gig, iPod, are you guys satisfied with it?

i know this is kind of trivial, but its $150, and for a teenager with a summer job, thats quite a bit, i think. any advice would be much appreciated

Rockefella

07-08-2005, 10:27 PM

I think you should take the 20gb risk, like you said, the Shuffle is 1 gig, and you don't even get the opportunity to make a playlist/choose each song. You'll thank yourself in the end by getting the more expensive 'pod. And, you get the nice LCD and thumpad/analog.

TheOne

07-08-2005, 10:47 PM

you should get the 20gb, in the long run it'll be better, just like rock said.

also i have a minidisc still in use:), mine holds ~50 or more songs per disc.(its the newer version with ATRAC or whatever......this 1 actually burns by the megabyte rather than the minute, which is why the cd's and older minidiscs could only record so much)

targa

07-08-2005, 10:54 PM

Spastik_Roach

07-08-2005, 11:49 PM

Just bear in mind the stupidly exspensive battery changes evey year or two (depends on usage) if you get an i-pod..

IBrake4Rainbows

07-09-2005, 12:39 AM

Theres the problem Spastik, IF it breaks.

I've heard NOTHING from all the iPod owners I know (And thats a hell of a lot) about any battery problems, me included.

Parts are expensive because there specialised, it's like buying a French car in Australia, you pay more for being different.

go the 20Gb, Your bound to pick up a good one. Oh, and get a cover for it before you buy it, I didn't and the back of my 40Gb is scratched Hell Bad.

Spastik_Roach

07-09-2005, 01:34 AM

Wait till a year or two, Apple even admit it themselves after about two years of regular usage the battery will start to hold less of a charge and eventually hold nothing. ITs not about breaking it just wears out.

6'bore

07-09-2005, 02:54 AM

Ive had the 20gb special edition one since christmas, nd im having battery problems, its pisses me off. If your going for any of them, i would go for one of the iPod mini's, in between the shuffle and 20gb one. In the U.K the come as a 4gb (1000 songs) and a 6gb one (1500 songs)

Matra et Alpine

07-09-2005, 03:36 AM

Spastik_Roach

07-09-2005, 04:04 AM

LTT

07-09-2005, 05:44 AM

I have a 20GB G4 iPod and I love it. No battery problems at all. If you do get one i suggest getting an iSkin, they are magnificent for protection against bumps, sratches and the like. Also, if you're going to go running with it you'll need to buy an armband.

IWantAnAudiRS6

07-09-2005, 05:46 AM

20Gb iPod every time, I only have a Shuffle because I'm a bit of a Luddite :)

I gave one away to my sister, she loves it, they're great little things. Work out the price per Gb as well- a Shuffle is vastly expensive compared to the 20. Good luck.

Lagonda

07-09-2005, 06:07 AM

There are "better" solutions out there - especially if on an "initial" budget.

We've a collection of various MP3 players and viewers. ALL use SD memory cars ( about $20 for 1Gb now :) ). installed SD card radio/cd players in the cars and we can all "share" music and trasnfer between PC and MP3 and car is SOOOO easy :)

The iPod is now "old" technology and isn't as "innovative" as Apple's PR woudl have you believe :)

The MP3 player my daughter wears while out cross-country horse riding cost me $15 and that included a 128Mb SD card ( which now languishes being used as the "listen to this new music and see what you think" sharing amongst us :) )

SO far my friends with Apples have been well impressed at what my daughter does with her music on the SD cards. I've also an MP3 player permanently installed on my bike. Plug in the "latest" SD card and I can enjoy GREAT music while tearing up the Scottish highlands :)

SD readers for PCs are pennies now so gettign files on is implicity itself - no cables :)
The techology isn't "old". By that logic your flash based players are as old or even older technology.
It IS a fact that the users interface of th iPod is still number one. I have never seen an mp3 player with a better interface. A bad interface isn't an issue with small capacity players (like 1GB) but it becomes an issue when managing multiple gigabytes of music.
Most people don't have a lot of music so a 20GB iPod could contain all of their music and you would avoid the hassle of all these loose small cards that you can lose.
Add to this that the integration between iTunes and the iPod is perfect. You can "share" your music along multiple iPods as well. Just plug them in a let them synchronise.

That said, get an iPod mini. I have a first generation american model that I imported the moment they came out. I choose the mini because even the biggest normal iPod (60GB, 40GB back then) isn't big enough to contain all of my music.

targa

07-09-2005, 06:58 AM

The techology isn't "old". By that logic your flash based players are as old or even older technology.
It IS a fact that the users interface of th iPod is still number one. I have never seen an mp3 player with a better interface. A bad interface isn't an issue with small capacity players (like 1GB) but it becomes an issue when managing multiple gigabytes of music.
Most people don't have a lot of music so a 20GB iPod could contain all of their music and you would avoid the hassle of all these loose small cards that you can lose.
Add to this that the integration between iTunes and the iPod is perfect. You can "share" your music along multiple iPods as well. Just plug them in a let them synchronise.

That said, get an iPod mini. I have a first generation american model that I imported the moment they came out. I choose the mini because even the biggest normal iPod (60GB, 40GB back then) isn't big enough to contain all of my music.well i have a friend that is a hard core iPod user and she has nothing but bad things to say about the mini, so as of yet i have been leaning away from it, but i will look into it

fpv_gtho

07-09-2005, 07:12 AM

I know a few people with Ipods, most of which havent owned them long enough to have problems or dont care about the battery issues etc, but i know 2 people that have these Creative MP3 Ipod lookalike things that would swear by them. Theyve got an interface very similar to an Ipod, only problem is theyre bigger than an Ipod, but dont look as feminine either

targa

07-09-2005, 07:14 AM

a just went to Apple.com to look at the mini and on the front page of the store they are advertising the "new" iPod, 20GB and 60GB, which now have color LCD screens

maybe i will go with the 20GB

if i were to get a mini, i would get the 6GB version...

$250usd / 6GB = $41.66 per gig
$300usd / 20GB = $15.00 per gig, and a color screen

Matra et Alpine

07-09-2005, 07:17 AM

The techology isn't "old".
You missed the point.
Apple sold the iPod initially because it was new and "different.
There are MANY variants around, many doing it cheaper and some doing it better.
The "technology" in all of these is 30 years old :)

By that logic your flash based players are as old or even older technology.
It IS a fact that the users interface of th iPod is still number one. I have never seen an mp3 player with a better interface. A bad interface isn't an issue with small capacity players (like 1GB) but it becomes an issue when managing multiple gigabytes of music.
Check out the playesr with better and bigger screesn and you'll get the point :)
Playlists ? All but the cheapest have them now.
All modern ones use the directory structure you create on the cards to relfect this.
BEYOND that you have buttons to browse, play, step back and forward. All software technology that HP patented 20 years ago :) and present in all of them. The screen on the iPod is the worst going for the cash. Even the new "photo" iPod isn't even as good as my daughers mobile phone that plays MP3s :)

Most people don't have a lot of music so a 20GB iPod could contain all of their music and you would avoid the hassle of all these loose small cards that you can lose.
And how many carry the cable to share the music between players ?
Fine you've got it in your 20Gb iPod, how do you play it on the horse riding across a field - or in the rally car between stages ? You REALLY want to carry $300 for that ?
Technology isn't always the best solution, sometimes more of the simpler is :)

Add to this that the integration between iTunes and the iPod is perfect. You can "share" your music along multiple iPods as well. Just plug them in a let them synchronise.
Clearly you've not even looked at the level of "integration" available without shelling $$$ to Apple.
Daughter number one's PC is setup to AUTOMATICALLY rip a CD to her memory card she plugs into the front of the PC :)
And not a single cable in site :)
Sharing MP3s is easy with all of them.

That said, get an iPod mini. I have a first generation american model that I imported the moment they came out. I choose the mini because even the biggest normal iPod (60GB, 40GB back then) isn't big enough to contain all of my music.
so already the need to "move music" between the main storage you have for it and the iPod is required.
That's just taken away the original unique selling point for the iPod :)
As soon as you have a main music stores area ( we use our server for it ) and your player you have the concern of moving music regularly and the hassle of cables etc :) JUST the same as all those pesky cards you thought so bad :)

My point in responding initially was to point out there are alternatives, many of which are MUCH cheaper and some of which are 'better'.

Of course just as telling a Skyline-fanboy that there are better cars than R34s makes no difference, I leave you to your opinion.

Matra et Alpine

07-09-2005, 07:19 AM

a just went to Apple.com to look at the mini and on the front page of the store they are advertising the "new" iPod, 20GB and 60GB, which now have color LCD screens
and oddly NOT able to play or record movies the same way ALL of the competition with colour screens does.

But hey there will still people buying MG cars thinking they were good based on the hey day of the Midget and 'B' :)

The other technical issue is the iPod mini uses the Hitachi 1" drive.
For 4Gb I'd rather go solid state, especially for soemthgin I want to tbe able to take on horses, bikes, tracks and even the occasional rally stage :)

SilverG35SportC

07-09-2005, 07:46 AM

Alot of my friends have either 20g or 40g 4th generation i-pods. From what I conclude they break...most of them have had to send them in for service for different reasons..a click wheel broken..battery messed up etc.. I however have a 1gb shuffle its its awesome...Although I would have preferred a 20gb I do not have that kind of money. Because my brother already had i-tunes I bought the shuffle. Its crazy small and its really good for exercising and you dont have to worry about getting a screen scracthed. Thats about its only downside aswell-lack of a screen. Id say if you have the money, buy a 20g but expect problems but if you are tight on money go for a 1g shuffle.

Clivey

07-09-2005, 08:24 AM

Matra et Alpine

07-09-2005, 08:31 AM

I have a 60GB Photo, and apart from scratches on the back there's nothing wrong with it. Oh and if you have a dock for your iPod then you don't need to mess with cables every time you want to move songs about. Just leave the dock plugged in then when you wanna manipulate music just plug the iPod into the dock.
How many dosck do you own ?
Every PC nowaydsa has a memory card slot - including PDAs and digital cameras and etc etc.

I go running and biking with the 60GB in my pocket
personal prefernce, I'd reather not risk $300 of gear when I go "rough".
Cheapest MP3 player we own means none of us woudl be too upset if it got broken :)

I used to mess around with a Minidisc player but now I never use it and the only thing that's stopping me from selling it is the knowledge that it's worth more as a back-up portable music player than it is to get £10 for it.
In 5 years time the iPod will be limited to that purpose too.
One of the reason I prefer to buy my memory EXTERNAL is I can know I can contineu to use it. Camera, phone, car stereo, mpr player and external mass storage. All with no cables :)

As for memory cards, I have a newish PC that has a card reader built in but still I don't want to use that for music...I like to have a good variety with me without fiddling with disks so i just load great chunks of music onto my iPod.
True, IF you're going to want 40-60Gb then rotating hunks of metal are still cheaper :)
See the usage described earlier where the extra cards are beneficial and WAY ahead of trygin to keep 5 players "syncrhonised" :)

Hell you can even get a Belkin SD card reader for the iPod to allow you to take the SD cards out of digital cameras and load the photos onto the disk saving you from having to have more than one SD card or a laptop with you. :cool:
Didnt' knwo of SD reader accesory for iPod. So someone must think it's a good idea. So why not just use it, especially as it's more reliable, faster and more rugged than spinning disks ( how quaint :) )

IWantAnAudiRS6

07-09-2005, 09:24 AM

The iPod is the best way to go for reliability, stability, and credibility. Those Creatives may have a couple of features up on the iPod (EAX is pretty cool, chaging song speeds, and the acoustics) but the iPod is really the best of the lot. The colour screen ones are pretty cool, you can view photos on them, even if they are a little gimmicky.

You cannot go wrong with an iPod- in our family of Apple, we have had 5 for ages and none have showed any signs of flagging. I am impressed with my Shuffles ability to go anywhere, even underwater :p. It has not been away from my person while I have been in Prague, it only comes out of my pocket to put on new songs and to plug into my stereo.

Matra et Alpine

07-09-2005, 10:11 AM

The iPod is the best way to go for reliability,
According to PCWorld magazines user survey it came out different :)

"Owners of Creative and Sony music players reported fewer problems that would affect their ability to use the device: 8 percent of Sony owners and 12 percent of Creative owners--versus 16 percent of Apple owners--indicated such a problem. "

Rockefella

07-09-2005, 10:34 AM

Well, you COULD get a Sony PSP, with our technology, a 5 to 10 gb memory stick for it will be only 50 bucks in the next 2 to 3 years. Plus, you have music, games, video, images, and a 1337 LCD.

baddabang

07-09-2005, 11:14 AM

I have a shuffle as does sam. Its all I really need, I dont exactly need 20gigs of music space (who does?) Anyway It can only run for 12hrs. which kind of sucks if your on vacation and do not have access to a USB port to charge it. Plus you can use it for a memory card in gt4 ;)

IWantAnAudiRS6

07-09-2005, 11:50 AM

Agreed baddabang- and have you had any problems with it? I haven't. It's been brilliant.

SilverG35SportC

07-10-2005, 12:25 PM

I find sometimes with mine when I go backwards in an album song by song that sometimes it will just play a random song and go back to the album. Sorta weird but ill live with it.

my porsche

07-10-2005, 03:41 PM

Just bear in mind the stupidly exspensive battery changes evey year or two (depends on usage) if you get an i-pod..
ive had mine 5 months and the battery lasts for...get this...an hour and a half
and i only have 450 songs on it!! like 2-3 gigs, which i easliy put on there so 1g wouldnt be enough, spring for the 20g as has been said before: youll thankyourself latrer

IBrake4Rainbows

07-10-2005, 03:43 PM

my porsche

07-10-2005, 03:45 PM

I'd reather not risk $300
the photo starts at like $600USD i think :) :p, but you get the 3 year warranty for like $40 and it covers everything except throwing it into a wall, so your covered

targa

07-10-2005, 08:21 PM

I've had mine since Christmas and the battery lasts for it's entire 12 hour life.

What you need to do is not be stupid with the charging, little bits here and there.

heres the problem as i see it, the battery has a memory.so, what youre saying is to run out the entire bettery everytime? so it will remember that it needs all that life for next time?

IBrake4Rainbows

07-10-2005, 08:30 PM

so, what youre saying is to run out the entire bettery everytime? so it will remember that it needs all that life for next time?
Precisely, It's not a Lithium Battery, So it still has memory.

targa

07-10-2005, 09:27 PM

Precisely, It's not a Lithium Battery, So it still has memory.thats what i thought....thanks for telling me that, im used to having to do that with my uncles radio controlled cars, so it wont be new, different than that, but the concept is the same

my porsche

07-10-2005, 09:34 PM

"texas is worse than jeresy" what the frick dude?!?!

targa

07-10-2005, 09:42 PM

umm...no comment

CSL

07-10-2005, 09:47 PM

my gf and i have shuffles and both are great

Matra et Alpine

07-11-2005, 03:26 AM

my gf and i have shuffles and both are great
Pennicilin will clear that up right away :)

Lagonda

07-11-2005, 06:28 AM

Precisely, It's not a Lithium Battery, So it still has memory.
Not true. iPods use Sony Lithium Ion batteries. And deep decharging is very bad for lithium batteries.

targa

07-11-2005, 11:10 AM

^ he's right

Charging iPod's internal battery
iPod has an internal, nonremovable, lithium-based rechargeable battery. A fully charged battery provides up to 8 hours of battery life (see note below). After about 14 to 28 days of not being used, the battery needs to be charged.
The simplest way to charge your iPod is to connect it to the Apple iPod Power Adapter using the FireWire cable that came with your iPod. Extra adapters are available from the Apple Store.

iPod's battery is 80 percent charged in about an hour, and fully charged in about 4 hours. You can disconnect and use iPod before it is fully charged, and you don't have to wait until it's completely empty before charging it again. A battery icon in the top-right corner of iPod's display shows how much charge is left. If you connect iPod and the battery icon does not animate, its battery is fully charged. Lithium-ion batteries, such as those used in iPod, have none of the memory effects seen in nickel-based rechargeable batteries.

The battery stops charging when it's full. You can leave it plugged in overnight, for example. Leaving your iPod connected all the time doesn't continuously charge it. Once the battery is full, disconnect iPod.

my porsche

07-11-2005, 12:44 PM

i let my get all the way to none about three times and thats why it lasts this short...

VtecMini

07-11-2005, 01:06 PM

My GF has a 4GB Mini that I bought her, she loves it, but moans that the battery only lasts about 3 or 4 hours between charges, though I believe this to be a result of her addiction to playing solitaire. I personally use my mobile. It takes SD and MMC cards, I use a 512mb SD which gives me a good few hours of music, plenty for my needs. I have 11GB of music so I just pick and choose when the mood suits me.

Am I right in thinking that these iPod shuffles don't take memory cards at all? Just some unremoveable solid state stick? If so, that's lame! Everyones been doing those for years, Apple are just whoring out the Ipod name some more!

On another note, I was wondering if anyone knows of a way to use an Ipod photo as an imagedock for my camera. The aforementioned card reader sounds an option, as long as it takes compactflash. I think I could justify buying one if that was the case, cos Nikon coolwalkers and the like cost craploads.

Lagonda

07-11-2005, 01:52 PM

Am I right in thinking that these iPod shuffles don't take memory cards at all? Just some unremoveable solid state stick? If so, that's lame! Everyones been doing those for years, Apple are just whoring out the Ipod name some more
Yes, they do not take memory cards. They have either a 512MB or a 1GB chip built in. They are not whoring out the iPod name, they do things like market research you know. Market research show us that most people do not want to bother with interchangeable cards and complicated things like directory structures. The iPod really has the biggest market share for a reason and it's not "whoring out the name". The only people who whine about the "lack" of features on iPods, like changeable batteries, card based memory, video features etc. are gadget people who like tech toys. Most people do not care a bit about this stuff. Video will come to the iPod when the time is ready. But not yet.

On another note, I was wondering if anyone knows of a way to use an Ipod photo as an imagedock for my camera. The aforementioned card reader sounds an option, as long as it takes compactflash. I think I could justify buying one if that was the case, cos Nikon coolwalkers and the like cost craploads.
What you want is possible.

VtecMini

07-11-2005, 02:14 PM

What you want is possible.Care to elaborate?

Lagonda

07-11-2005, 02:31 PM

You missed the point.
Apple sold the iPod initially because it was new and "different.
There are MANY variants around, many doing it cheaper and some doing it better.
The "technology" in all of these is 30 years old :)
Cheaper, sure. But better ? No. Show me ONE hard drive based player that is as easy to use as an iPod, just one. I used/had most of them and I've never seen one that even comes close. The interface on Creatives is even horrible. And the "technology" is the same so I don't really get what you mean by "old technology".

Check out the playesr with better and bigger screesn and you'll get the point :) Why do you need a big and good screen in a device that's marketed as a music player ? That's right, you don't. Not without video features. I don't watch the screen constantly when listening to music.

Playlists ? All but the cheapest have them now.
All modern ones use the directory structure you create on the cards to relfect this.
Do you really want to waste your time creating directory structures when the iPod offers you everything nicely categorized in genre, album, artist and song title. What more do you want ?

All software technology that HP patented 20 years ago :) and present in all of them.I don't get why this is relevant.

The screen on the iPod is the worst going for the cash.Answered that.

Even the new "photo" iPod isn't even as good as my daughers mobile phone that plays MP3s :)
You mean the screen isn't as good ? That's possible but the point of the iPod photo has always been that you could connect it to your TV and watch with friends. Are you really going to watch with your friends on a small screen ? And yes even a +5 inch screen is small. :)

And how many carry the cable to share the music between players ?
Your point being ?

Fine you've got it in your 20Gb iPod, how do you play it on the horse riding across a field - or in the rally car between stages.
You push the play button ;)

You REALLY want to carry $300 for that ?
Why not ?

Technology isn't always the best solution, sometimes more of the simpler is :)
I don't see how it's simpler ? :confused:

Clearly you've not even looked at the level of "integration" available without shelling $$$ to Apple.
Depends on what kind of integration ? Apple sells nothing that adds extra "integration".

Lagonda

07-11-2005, 02:32 PM

Daughter number one's PC is setup to AUTOMATICALLY rip a CD to her memory card she plugs into the front of the PC :)
You really think this isn't possible with iTunes ? Maybe not on windows, I'll give you that but it sure is on a Mac.

And not a single cable in site :) No but you took the memory card out of the mp3 player and put it in the card reader. Why is that different to plugging in a cable ?

Sharing MP3s is easy with all of them.
As easy as synching an iPod.

so already the need to "move music" between the main storage you have for it and the iPod is required.
So where does the music on your memory cards come from ?

That's just taken away the original unique selling point for the iPod :) How is that ?

As soon as you have a main music stores area ( we use our server for it ) and your player you have the concern of moving music regularly and the hassle of cables etc :) JUST the same as all those pesky cards you thought so bad :)
Err; yes ? You're contradicting yourself.

My point in responding initially was to point out there are alternatives, many of which are MUCH cheaper and some of which are 'better'. Sure there are alternatives, there are alternatives for everything. I won't debate the fact that iPods are expesive but you get quality materials, a good quality feel when you touch the things. These are things I don't get with, say, a Creative music player. They feel cheap. You don't get the ease of use and iTunes. Using the windows Explorer to manage your music is pure hell and time consuming.

"Better" depends on your POV. I suspect that you are a bit of gadget freak, like me, and you like having things that are cutting edge. If so then the iPod that lacks the FM radio, the video capabilities* and other things is not for you. But most people aren't interested a bit in these things and are "tech-illiterate" and want a simple and elegant solution. The iPod is for them. Add to that that the iPod has huge third party support for extras which is something that all the others lack. That is a *very* big selling point of the iPod.

*you probably know my stance on video capabilities: it's quite pointless to be viewing video on a small screen. Connecting the thing to a TV: wonderfull and cool. But watching it on a small screen is not something you do when you walk down the street. And those portable video players are hardly portable, most of them are pretty darn heavy. And I even find the iPod to be heavy ! (one of the reasons I have a mini)

Of course just as telling a Skyline-fanboy that there are better cars than R34s makes no difference, I leave you to your opinion.
This disappoints me. I thought you argued better than that. Let's not start calling names. I'm not a fanboy, never was and never will be.

That's a whole lot of quotes :D

Lagonda

07-11-2005, 02:33 PM

Care to elaborate?
Sure. That card reader you are talking about takes compact flash and then there is always this: http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/AppleStore?productLearnMore=M9861G/A
Just connect your camera to the iPod and transfer the pics !

my porsche

07-11-2005, 02:38 PM

lady and gentlemen, i think matra might have just gotten owned, ill await final judgement

spi-ti-tout

07-11-2005, 03:00 PM

lady and gentlemen, i think matra might have just gotten owned, ill await final judgement
Do you think so......?
Now THIS is one battle that ('s worth following that) might not just end up in Matra winning in 2 posts :)

Matra et Alpine

07-11-2005, 03:24 PM

Please go back and read my comments and see try a little harder to get the points made.

FIRST -- that the "technology" is that the Apple has NOTHING "new or innovative" including the software interface.

SECOND -- that you need to carry cables around if you want to sync to multiple machines. EVery PC now has memory card readers. It wasn't a contradcitoin, it was pointing out that claiming "pesky cards" is silly given the alternative is "pesky cables" :) Espsecially as cards are STANDARD and Apple cables arent'

THIRD -- ease of use. This one has been done to death in all the reviews. Apple users claim "easier" and yet there is NOTHING objective oabout that. So it's like the PC v Apple debate. They are both easy to use

FOURTH -- screens. Apple are NOT "innovating" any more. Hence comment on bigger/better screens or even on the simplest of video options or GPS mapping etc etc.

FIFTH -- being deliberately obtuse in a debate is pointless and isn't clever :) Do you REALLY think the drives are capable of continous use during the rough handling on horseback ? The hardware is NOT as relibale under shock loadsin as solid-state. Kind of negated by the extended insurance IFF they are willing to pay out on doing excessive things. ( eg Mobile phone insurance in the UK will typically pay out ONCE on "accidental" damage and NOT AGAIN )

SIXTH -- when someone says it's as easy as all of them, that include the iPod. You clearly just want an argument. We've a Monty Python thread for that

SEVENTH -- moving music. IF you have to manage your music to move it between server and machien then you are already performing the logical act of the memory card. Just not the physical. So the memory card isnt' an issue.
PS: Everybodies software has the equivalent of iTunes. The "unique selling point" on the original iPod was it STORED it ALL. So no longer a USP for the shuffle.

EIGHT -- the technology, manufacturing and reliability of devices doesnt' follow the rules of 10-15 years ago. EVERYTHING is made in the same foundries, assembled in the same clean rooms, built on the same assembly lines using the same component choices. Where these are is irrelevant as they are now placed wherever it's cheapest. It doenst' affect what the manufacturing unit makes

NINE - yep, the add-on market for the Apple is clearly stronger than the rest. My favourite was the radio transmitter saving the $300 kit for the car BUT these all exist for others now. It's the "designer" stuff that's still "unique" and probbably giving everyone the highest profits :) Which "add-on" is there that others don't have ?? I can name a few for Apples :) Like GPS and mapping :) Most folks don't want to carry 8 pieces of "gadgetry" when they coudl carry one :)

TEN -- watching video. Who do you think watches video WALKING ? Do you really think that's the market and the folks who own one do that ? Dreaming. It's for sitting waiting for the bus/train/taxi Did you think the Gameboy was a naff idea coz nobody woudl play games walking down the street. Which video units have you seen ? Some of them are the size of the original iPod - though accepted MOST of them are larger as they try to deliver larger SCREENS - just like the Sony PSP does

ELEVEN -- the "fanboy" comment was meant to be inciteful to realise that most Apple owners have bought it for the image and the PR. Just as most Skyline fanboys have never actually bothered to know the alternatives :)

That's a whole load of points :)

my porsche

07-11-2005, 03:52 PM

damnit, spi-ti-tout, were looking for lagonda to come back from his early lead to defeat matra in less than 5 post, hes running the longshot, down 100:1, but can he make it? back to you s.t.t.!

spi-ti-tout

07-11-2005, 03:58 PM

damnit, spi-ti-tout, were looking for lagonda to come back from his early lead to defeat matra in less than 5 post, hes running the longshot, down 100:1, but can he make it? back to you s.t.t.!
I definetly think Lagonda's got the potential to answer back, though not necessarily defeat the techno-wiz Matra, I think we'd better be putting the ratio on a 100:25 soldier, just to be on the good side of the Ak-47.

Your call, m_p

Rockefella

07-11-2005, 04:10 PM

No one will win this argument, Matra will continue to argue his points, and Lagonda will do likewise, but I believe Lagonda squeezed out the victory.

my porsche

07-11-2005, 04:12 PM

I definetly think Lagonda's got the potential to answer back, though not necessarily defeat the techno-wiz Matra, I think we'd better be putting the ratio on a 100:25 soldier, just to be on the good side of the Ak-47.

Your call, m_p
thanks stt, yeah hes definately got the potential, now the question is, will he be able to overcome the imtimidation of an 11,000post arguing machine? i think if he sets his mind to it, and gethers enough facts he just might be able to come back with a strong case and maybe even win this thing.

Lagonda

07-11-2005, 04:33 PM

Please go back and read my comments and see try a little harder to get the points made.
Why ? I read them, interpreted them and responded to them. If my reponse is not what you like to hear then so be it. That's what a debate is for.

FIRST -- that the "technology" is that the Apple has NOTHING "new or innovative" including the software interface.
The whole concept of the wheel with the turning and selecting was and is innovative + the way the menus are made is unlike anything else out there and much easier to use. I'm not talking about play, fwd and rewind buttons or hard drives.

SECOND -- that you need to carry cables around if you want to sync to multiple machines. It wasn't a contradcitoin, it was pointing out that claiming "pesky cards" is silly given the alternative is "pesky cables" :) Espsecially as cards are STANDARD and Apple cables arent' So what's the problem if the alternative has exactly the same "peskyness" ? It doesn't make the cards better, does it ? I don't see what's non-standard about FireWire or USB tough. You will of course tell me that you mean the connector on the iPod itself but what does that matter ? If you have the iPod then you have the cables.

EVery PC now has memory card readers. This is abosolutely not true. But every PC sure has FireWire or/and USB.

THIRD -- ease of use. This one has been done to death in all the reviews. Apple users claim "easier" and yet there is NOTHING objective oabout that. So it's like the PC v Apple debate. They are both easy to use
Yeah well, for what it's worth it's not only "Apple-users" that say this. I don't know a lot of people who say that their non-iPod is easier to use than my iPod.
You can judge usability pretty objectively if you want to.

I'm not going into windows vs. Mac OS

FOURTH -- screens. Apple are NOT "innovating" any more. Hence comment on bigger/better screens or even on the simplest of video options or GPS mapping etc etc. They are not "innovating" because there is no need to add better screens or video options. The market does not care too much about portable video at this moment. It will care in the near future, but not yet.
And GPS mapping ?! It's a music player for crying out loud.

FIFTH -- being deliberately obtuse in a debate is pointless and isn't clever :) Do you REALLY think the drives are capable of continous use during the rough handling on horseback ? The hardware is NOT as relibale under shock loadsin as solid-state. Kind of negated by the extended insurance IFF they are willing to pay out on doing excessive things. ( eg Mobile phone insurance in the UK will typically pay out ONCE on "accidental" damage and NOT AGAIN )
Deliberatly obtuse ? Leave the ad hominem please.

Hard drives sure are capable of those short read sequences yes. It's a read sequence which is different to a write sequene. Writing during heavy chock can indeed cause much damage but writing not so. Add to that that the vibration is not constant and always different. Even while rallying the thing has time enough to fill up it's 25 minute buffer. But it IS true that solid state devices are more resistant to this. Apple even advertises on their website that you jog with an iPod, and I can personally vouch for that. I do it and there's nothing wrong with mine :)

That said, what does it matter ? What percentage of people abuses his/her music player that much ? VERY little. Those who do will require and get a purpose built device.

And yes Apple Care does cover hard drive crashes.

SIXTH -- when someone says it's as easy as all of them, that include the iPod. You clearly just want an argument. We've a Monty Python thread for that
Say what ?

SEVENTH -- moving music. IF you have to manage your music to move it between server and machien then you are already performing the logical act of the memory card. Just not the physical. So the memory card isnt' an issue. Is there software that easily/automatically builds (easy to use and comprehend!) directory structures and moves your music into the correct folder so that you can copy it over manually ?
Remember, you are a guy who knows something about computers and someone who has an other idea of "hard" or "easy" than most people have when it comes to tech stuff. You can't imagine how illiterate most people are when it comes to computers. So why the grudge against iTunes which does it all in an easy package?

PS: Everybodies software has the equivalent of iTunes. The "unique selling point" on the original iPod was it STORED it ALL. So no longer a USP for the shuffle.
Like what software ? Please don't tell me that Musicmatch is easy to use because I'm going to burst out in tears :D

The USP of the iPod shuffle is that it's as easy to use as possible. 512MB or 1GB is such a ridiculously small amount of capacity that you do not need advanced controls to select playlists etc. because with a few clicks you can get the song you want. The iPod shuffle doesn't WANT to be a store-all device.
You plug in the shuffle, push the autofill button in iTunes, disconnect it and start listening.

I must admit that I don't like the lack of a screen on the shuffle because sometimes I'd like to see the name of the artist performing the current track.

EIGHT -- the technology, manufacturing and reliability of devices doesnt' follow the rules of 10-15 years ago. EVERYTHING is made in the same foundries, assembled in the same clean rooms, built on the same assembly lines using the same component choices. Where these are is irrelevant as they are now placed wherever it's cheapest. It doenst' affect what the manufacturing unit makes[/]Then why does my iPod mini "feels" like it's tougher than the equivalent that Creative makes ? I'm talking about the casings of the devices, the tactile feel. I'm not talking about the internal hardware, that's all the same crap. Altough Apple does have an exclusive contact with PortalPlayer as far as I know (the platform/chip that powers the iPod).

[quote]NINE - yep, the add-on market for the Apple is clearly stronger than the rest. My favourite was the radio transmitter saving the $300 kit for the car BUT these all exist for others now. It's the "designer" stuff that's still "unique" and probbably giving everyone the highest profits :) Which "add-on" is there that others don't have ?? I can name a few for Apples :) Like GPS and mapping :) Again, GPS mapping on a music player ?! That's like a washing machine that makes my breakfast. Really.

Most folks don't want to carry 8 pieces of "gadgetry" when they coudl carry one :) Because most people don't want a big complicated mother of a gadget and they also don't need 8 add-ons.

TEN -- watching video. Who do you think watches video WALKING ? Do you really think that's the market and the folks who own one do that ? Dreaming. It's for sitting waiting for the bus/train/taxi Did you think the Gameboy was a naff idea coz nobody woudl play games walking down the street. Which video units have you seen ? Some of them are the size of the original iPod - though accepted MOST of them are larger as they try to deliver larger SCREENS - just like the Sony PSP does
I can accept this argument a bit. But, let's say you are playing a game on your gameboy while waiting for the bus. The bus arrives, so you interrupt your game to get on the bus and buy your ticket. Then you start playing again, the bus stops you interrupt again to get off and so on. Now do you like watching a movie that gets interrupted all the time ? I know I don't, it's like commercials on TV, it's horrible. And the small screen is just awefull IMHO for watching movies. There is a point where the screens stop growing because otherwise the things won't be portable anymore. Watching a movie is something completely different than listening to music or playing a casual game. It requires much more attention.

ELEVEN -- the "fanboy" comment was meant to be inciteful to realise that most Apple owners have bought it for the image and the PR. Just as most Skyline fanboys have never actually bothered to know the alternatives :)
I do very well know the alternatives. And I don't have Apple computers and iPods because of image and PR. But because I've used them all of my life and they are superior in every way for me, maybe not for you. Nothing could make me use something like windows personally. It makes me cry when using it at work, it's soo counterproductive that it isn't even funny anymore. But that's a whole other discussion.

I'm off to sleep now. It's waay too late now and tomorrow I'm heading to the beach. With my iPod ;)

Good night.

Lagonda

07-11-2005, 04:35 PM

thanks stt, yeah hes definately got the potential, now the question is, will he be able to overcome the imtimidation of an 11,000post arguing machine? i think if he sets his mind to it, and gethers enough facts he just might be able to come back with a strong case and maybe even win this thing.

Lol, are we placing bets already ? 'tis not a competition people. Just a debate. :)

my porsche

07-11-2005, 04:35 PM

OH! a wonderful counter by lagonda, lets see what peter has in store for his next move.

my porsche

07-11-2005, 04:35 PM

Lol, are we placing bets already ? 'tis not a competition people. Just a debate. :)
we might as well get intertainment :D

IBrake4Rainbows

07-11-2005, 04:43 PM

I've had some direct comparison experiance with music players.

My Sister's Boyfriend recently came home with the Sony 20g music player, I tooled around with it for a few minutes, and I couldn't work the control, I learnt how to, but whether it's because of his setup or the actual player, I ended up getting so lost in the menus I had to reset it to get me back to the start.

In comparison he grabbed my iPod, he's never touched it before (I haven't let him....) and he could work it within a couple of Minutes, He even created an on-the-go playlist for me.

It's a big, clear system, basically. This is just personal experiance, but the buttons (once you know what there for) are easy to navigate and work well. All very logical.

But I didn't know how to turn off my iPod at first :p So READ THE MANUAL is all I've got to say.

If you like a product enough to buy it, you can adapt.

Matra et Alpine

07-11-2005, 04:45 PM

As I already said you tout the "wheel" -- sorry. Hewlett Packard patented the concept of doign that MAY years ago :) I TOLD you that and THAT was the point I was making abotu the "debate" You didnt' read it.
So you will stick to the BELIEF as esposed by Apple that it's unique and different.
But it's NOT.
I've not bothered with the rest tonight as you fell at the first hurdle.
But I'll get round to it tomorrow :)

IBrake4Rainbows

07-11-2005, 04:47 PM

Matra et Alpine

07-11-2005, 04:51 PM

Is there another MP3 device that uses it?

Does it matter if it's old, It works! and because the Mouse is an old Design, we should all come up with ways to make a new one?
Missing the point made and I'll repeat it ....

It was that the Apple had lost the "innovative" tag because what it DID offer first was the idea of LOTS of music storage so you never needed ANYTHIGN ELSE.

They have walked away from that USP.

And definately "old" doesn't mean bad.
But claiming (repeatedly) innovation in light of evidence proving otherwise was the point.

As with all Apple products what is "clever" is the look-and-feel of the user Interface ( this time physical as well as s/w ) But like with the one-button mouse, it's now behidn the times. Apple learned that, they'ver TRIED to learn with the Phoito iPod and missed the point that EVERYONE is willing and spending the $$$ to go video.

However, as Apple have just been filed with a LAWSUIT from an American company claiming they have the patent on Ipod devices it coul dbe "interesting". Especially as Apple now get somethign like 25% of the WHOLE COMPANY REVENUE from the Ipod line :(

IBrake4Rainbows

07-11-2005, 05:12 PM

You might be willing to go video, but I can tell you (My school may be a great representation of this, because we're a target market) I've yet to see anything Mp3 with a Camera on it, save for a mates phone.

Apple claims Innovation because they were (Correct me here if I'm wrong and I'm sure you will) the first on the market with a Substantial sized mp3 Storage/Player system that was portable.

They are redesigning the iPod and a new one (Possibly in Conjunction with Nokia, I've heard) will be like a phone with a Hard Drive, so people don't have to carry two devices when they can carry one.

The iPod is behind the times because of a Monochrome screen, but again, it's still functional and sells well, it's just not on the forefront of technology.

Give it time though, and it'll be back to the head of the Pack. Apple hates to be last seasons gear. It's a Computer company run by Fashion basically.......

And Apple were sued by Customers due to the Battery issue (Which Spastik is almost too eager to expose) so I guess they're on good terms with their laywer......

Clivey

07-13-2005, 02:00 AM

Can I briefly interrupt with a dumb question...? How do I quote just part of someone's post?

Rockefella

07-13-2005, 02:14 AM

Why is Rockefella so cool?
You mean like this ^? (Hah, I'm so cool)

When you press the quote button on someone's post, their message will be placed verbatim in the:

[QU.OTE=whoever.you.quoted]blahblahblah this is the message[/QUOTE] (ignore the dots)

thing above your post. Just go in to there, and delete whatever text you don't want posted. If you don't understand what I'm saying, just get me at MSN or PM me.

Clivey

07-13-2005, 02:31 AM

You mean like this ^? (Hah, I'm so cool)

If you don't understand what I'm saying, just get me at MSN or PM me.

Like this?

IWantAnAudiRS6

07-13-2005, 02:34 AM

Like this? Dayamn, this "quote" button is some serious stuff!!!
Yup, like that.

Clivey

07-13-2005, 02:39 AM

Originally Posted by Rockefella
Why is Rockefella so cool?

What do you expect if you were born the day after me? :cool:

Rockefella

07-13-2005, 03:14 AM

What do you expect if you were born the day after me? :cool:
Stop messing with my head. My level of awesomeness cannot be influenced by someone elses birthday! :)

Spastik_Roach

07-13-2005, 03:51 AM

Get a mobile phone with Mp3 player. Buy a 2gb Sd card or something and bang you got alotta music as long as ur mobile phone can take SD Cards. And if there was a phone that could take Microdrives (is there?), you can get the same space for songs as a entry level Ipod Mini, plus a nice mobile. All for less than buying both and alot less clutter aswell. AND earphones can double as handsfree set if its got a mic aswell. Everyones a winner :)

Matra et Alpine

07-13-2005, 03:52 AM

You might be willing to go video, but I can tell you (My school may be a great representation of this, because we're a target market) I've yet to see anything Mp3 with a Camera on it, save for a mates phone.
Differences in our environment
Over here, LOTS of folks have and use them.
Some figures from research we use ( we're a telecomms test company )
"36% were interested in making / receiving video calls"
http://www.3g.co.uk/PR/December2004/Enpoc2.gif
But the UK has pretty much led the world in using mobile devices ( except Japan - a world to themself ). As some places are just getting used to being able to SMS to anyone else in a mobile, the UK is now about 25% of all traffic is MMS ( ie pics or video ). ( likely includes the Amaryllo army vid )

Apple claims Innovation because they were (Correct me here if I'm wrong and I'm sure you will) the first on the market with a Substantial sized mp3 Storage/Player system that was portable.
The issues is "substantial" :)
It was the mix that Apple got right first time around ( IMHO ).
The size wasn't the smallest, the disc space in the size WAS though. Other large storage were bigger. The original mechanical wheel though sucked
"Innovation" as I said was where Apple continue to do it by "prodcut design" and PR. The electronics are all someone elses - Wolfson ( an EDINBURGH company :) ), PortalPlayer and Toshiba. The Operating System too. The mechanical wheel had been used for decades for menu selection. The "touch" one though was NICE improvement - but again NOT Apples, that's Synaptics

They are redesigning the iPod and a new one (Possibly in Conjunction with Nokia, I've heard) will be like a phone with a Hard Drive, so people don't have to carry two devices when they can carry one.
erm, said this at the beginning :) THIS is where Apple lost track of the market. The phone companies have been doing it for ages. NOT using hard drives, but using plug in cards. Also video. Apple are late realising that the world has moved on and mobile phones and PDAs are fast becoming THE "one device" to carry. Bluetooth headest, blutooth control and the electronics stays in your pocket out of the way until you want to see a picture or video :)
I'm sure the Apple devotees will wait till Apple do it before it is considered "cool" !!!

The iPod is behind the times because of a Monochrome screen, but again, it's still functional and sells well, it's just not on the forefront of technology.
That was the point I was making.
NOT that it's bad, but there is "better" :)

Give it time though, and it'll be back to the head of the Pack. Apple hates to be last seasons gear. It's a Computer company run by Fashion basically.......
Yep, but when someone owns SO MUCH market share it becomes very easy to stop listening as hard to the market needs and get overtaken - which has happened already !!
THAT was the point I was raising WAY AT THE START. THere are currently "better" solutions out there for less money offering more features.
But as with the PC v Apple debate it wont' matter to some buyers ( and even to some techies - until Apple annouces they're switching to Intel and suddenly the Intel procesors are OK, "cool" :) )

And Apple were sued by Customers due to the Battery issue (Which Spastik is almost too eager to expose) so I guess they're on good terms with their laywer......
Lawsuits for warranty and patents are two different things.
IF they lose ( unliekly though ) then the patent holder can request payment from REVENUES.
Patent lawyers are a different bread from ambulance-chasers. MUCH more highly paid and MUCH nastier :)

On "quality" I asked around. I'm an engineer, so wanted som eFACTS and not just the "Apple sounds best", "Sony is better bass", but FIGURES> I was SHOCKED to find some .......

Harmonic Distortion on the iPod was MEASURED by a German firm at 0.46%. The same test on the iRiver was 0.04%. 10 TIMES BETTER.
They also showed that the iRiver had a MUCH flatter frequency response than the iPod which drops bass quickly.

Now I'm not saying the iPod sounds terrible as it doesn't.
I'm only providing facts showing that it's engineering is NOT the best around and for the price it does NOT command the "quality sound" ground :)

SO if someone is asking abotu which player to use, let me recap...
Think what you want it for. Does pictures and video appeal ?
HOW will you use it, where ?
COMPARE other products and dont' take sales volume or market share as a measure of "quality".
TRY to get the best for your money -- it wont' always come from the most expensive or the one with the largets marketing budget
Be careful on warranty. Make sure if it goes wrong then you KNOW it wil be repaired at no cost.

You might chose Apple, you might not, but at least it's informed :)

targa

07-13-2005, 09:29 AM

Matra et Alpine

07-13-2005, 09:45 AM

okay, i have figured it out

instead of buying an iPod right away, im going to buy my PowerBook first. i want to get it before Mactel takes over, so i figure i will buy it about febuary. if i order it through the Apple.com Education Centre, i get a $180 discount on the 20GB iPod....so i will buy it then
Get a WRITTEN statement on guaranteed warranty on processor faults !

one of the problems in the industry when you switch suppliers is the manufacturer makes teh comapny buy a "lifetime supply" of components. Will Apple hold enough stock for all future faults ? Gettign it in writing will be safest. At least then if you HAVE to switch to the Intel then youhave leverage to get a better deal from them :)

IBrake4Rainbows

07-13-2005, 06:35 PM

Differences in our environment
Over here, LOTS of folks have and use them.
Some figures from research we use ( we're a telecomms test company )
"36% were interested in making / receiving video calls"

I guess this is a Different Environment, the London Train bombings showed just how useful this Video technology can be, but, whether it's my personal preferance or the actual trend in Australia, Video Capability is still far to expensive.

But the UK has pretty much led the world in using mobile devices ( except Japan - a world to themself ). As some places are just getting used to being able to SMS to anyone else in a mobile, the UK is now about 25% of all traffic is MMS ( ie pics or video ). ( likely includes the Amaryllo army vid )

I haven't had any experiance in this area (i'm battling a Tech, for god sakes :p ) so I'll take your word for it. I would guess that it's probably only 5-10%of Traffic in Australia.

The issues is "substantial" It was the mix that Apple got right first time around ( IMHO ).
The size wasn't the smallest, the disc space in the size WAS though. Other large storage were bigger. The original mechanical wheel though sucked
"Innovation" as I said was where Apple continue to do it by "prodcut design" and PR. The electronics are all someone elses - Wolfson ( an EDINBURGH company ), PortalPlayer and Toshiba. The Operating System too. The mechanical wheel had been used for decades for menu selection. The "touch" one though was NICE improvement - but again NOT Apples, that's Synaptics

It's I guess a Personal preferance that I find An iPod easier to use than other devices, and your very correct in saying the Apple got the Mix right.

Don't think I'm an Apple Fanboy (I have to use them for school, the most annoying Computer. Ever.) but it is the Mp3 Player that broke the market basically and set what people expect. The benchmark, if you will, that others have since surpassed.

erm, said this at the beginning THIS is where Apple lost track of the market. The phone companies have been doing it for ages. NOT using hard drives, but using plug in cards. Also video. Apple are late realising that the world has moved on and mobile phones and PDAs are fast becoming THE "one device" to carry. Bluetooth headest, blutooth control and the electronics stays in your pocket out of the way until you want to see a picture or video

I'd love to be able to do this, but I had enough problems Getting my Sony Ericsson T630 (How behind the times am i :p) for a good price. My Mate tried to do this Card trick with his brand new Sony Ericsson Z800 or something, The phone had problems reading the card because it was so big and he'd stuffed it with stuff. Theres a way to go before the Technology becomes good AND affordable.

I'm sure the Apple devotees will wait till Apple do it before it is considered "cool" !!!

No arguments here. I know too many people happy to sing the praises of Apples. I CAN'T USE THEM?!

Yep, but when someone owns SO MUCH market share it becomes very easy to stop listening as hard to the market needs and get overtaken - which has happened already !!
THAT was the point I was raising WAY AT THE START. There are currently "better" solutions out there for less money offering more features.
But as with the PC v Apple debate it wont' matter to some buyers ( and even to some techies - until Apple annouces they're switching to Intel and suddenly the Intel procesors are OK, "cool" )

I'm not getting into the Apple/PC debate because I know nothing about it :p but I've yet to find a good solution from the Local stores which I can actually Afford (My iPod cost me $579 au, The best I can get for that Now ATM is an iRiver Video Ugly Thing (Don't know designation, sorry) with only 20Gb.

Lawsuits for warranty and patents are two different things.
IF they lose ( unliekly though ) then the patent holder can request payment from REVENUES.
Patent lawyers are a different bread from ambulance-chasers. MUCH more highly paid and MUCH nastier :)

I'll take your word for it, Speaking from experiance it seems.

On "quality" I asked around. I'm an engineer, so wanted som eFACTS and not just the "Apple sounds best", "Sony is better bass", but FIGURES> I was SHOCKED to find some .......

Harmonic Distortion on the iPod was MEASURED by a German firm at 0.46%. The same test on the iRiver was 0.04%. 10 TIMES BETTER.
They also showed that the iRiver had a MUCH flatter frequency response than the iPod which drops bass quickly.

Stop baffling me with figures! :p But you can't argue with numbers, thats why I've changed Headphones to my old Sony Ones, they work so much better.

Now I'm not saying the iPod sounds terrible as it doesn't.
I'm only providing facts showing that it's engineering is NOT the best around and for the price it does NOT command the "quality sound" ground :)

It's also comparing a two year old product with a brand new one.there are bound to be improvements and gains in that time.

SO if someone is asking about which player to use, let me recap...
Think what you want it for. Does pictures and video appeal ?
HOW will you use it, where ?
COMPARE other products and dont' take sales volume or market share as a measure of "quality".
TRY to get the best for your money -- it wont' always come from the most expensive or the one with the largets marketing budget
Be careful on warranty. Make sure if it goes wrong then you KNOW it wil be repaired at no cost.

This is a gospel. I've got a Warranty for my iPod and it'll come in handy if i Ever drop it down stairs again.

You might chose Apple, you might not, but at least it's informed :)

I guess my Choice on the issue was a bit Fashion-Driven. It was the coolest thing at the time and I was the only person in the school to have that particular model (I still am, considering 40Gb's sold terribly......) but I recognised a good product (At the time) and I still think it's good. It's just not the best or newest. :p

I like it, Thats all that matters to me :D

Spastik_Roach

07-14-2005, 02:09 AM

When I first heard about the battery issue (I was originally gunna get a shuffle) my first response was "But I-pods are so cool!"

Nuff said really :) Sometimes the choice is a bit function follows form but thats Human nature....

Matra et Alpine

07-14-2005, 04:32 AM

RE: mobile phone costs and impact on adoption of video etc......

The UK ( and some of Europe ) still seems to be leading the phone features at cost and affects our view and availability of technology.

Daughter's recent acquisition was a phone with the same display as the Photo iPod. Video, still camera ( *only* 1Mpixel ) and mp3 player. FREE including FREE Bluetooth headset on contract. The contract is 20 quid a month for 6 months and then will be 12 pounds per month. She is currently getting 400 free minutes and 500 free SMS per month. After month six that will go to 200 and 150 and she can chose to go to pre-pay and go even cheaper :).
There are now BETTER deals on better phones ( 2Mpixel auto-focus :).

So video use over here is actually now quite common.
Almost everyone has a phone that is 1-2 years old.

( and we're about 1-2 years behind the Japanese market. Their standard is different and we dont' get their smart features until adopted over to GSM :( )
Teenagers ALL have the "latest" :)
Expectations because of this may be higher than others.

Matra et Alpine

07-14-2005, 05:48 PM

Got the "ideal" solution for you .....

BUY the cheapest good sounding one you can and then build THIS up.
You can then enojy the music, "look cool" and know you didn't waste hard-earned $$$$ :)

:D

IBrake4Rainbows

07-14-2005, 09:17 PM

It's Interesting. In regards to the Threads Question, We've FINALLY come up with an Answer.

Do shuffle.

IWantAnAudiRS6

07-15-2005, 02:41 PM

Worth it. Dropped it a long way today, on concrete, it still works. I love it!

Clivey

11-27-2005, 03:20 PM

Actually I've listened to both an IRiver and an iPod using the same earphones and the same song (ripped from the same CD) and in my personal opinion the iPod sounded better...maybe it's due to the EQ settings but even though the IRiver lets you 'select' with a greater degree of choice when it comes to that, even when set to the equivalent settings to the iPod, I still found that it wasn't as clear (especially higher frequency sounds - I tried the song "Feel So Good" by Jamiroquai because it has a range of different sounds and effects from high to low a low bassline).

Make of that what you will.

And as for the screen...the one on my iPod photo's pretty damn good...I'd say at least as good as the one on my Sony Ericsson W800i phone...(that's the 2 megapixel Walkman one)