Best European Car

[DeeBee]

I was thinking, everyone has got their favorite cars, but could anyone tell me what car is the best (performance, hp, ect.)
I'm do not know much about cars, so I'll just ask the experts around here :)

[Note: this isn't about your favorite car..]

[SL500]

cant answer

mclaren f1?
lambo miura sv?
enzo?
.....

[technik]

Bmw 5 Series

[werty]

I was thinking, everyone has got their favorite cars, but could anyone tell me what car is the best (performance, hp, ect.)
I'm do not know much about cars, so I'll just ask the experts around here :)

[Note: this isn't about your favorite car..]

if you want list of fast cars here it is
2004 Dodge Viper GTSR (0-60 in 2.2 seconds, top speed over 230)
Bugatti Veyron(0-186 in 14 seconds, top speed 252mph!)
Jaguar XJ220(0-60 in 3.8, top speed 220mph)
Ferrari Enzo(my personal favorite, 0-60 in 3.14, and top speed is 220)

[Matra et Alpine]

2004 Dodge Viper GTSR (0-60 in 2.2 seconds, top speed over 230)
Where did you get the 0-60 time ?
This thing weighs a monstruous 2750lbs and even with 650bhp that's a huge hunk of metal to move.
I suspect the time is either a lightened car or a drag special with soft rubber.
Even as a custom racer, that acceleration figure isn't believable.

( it may be you've misread the 0-60KM/h time ?? It needs the 0-100km/h time to compare with 0-6mph )

[werty]

My Numbers For The Viper Are Almost Correct
I Got Them From A Dupont Registry Magazine That Has One For Sale
Its Called The Dodge Viper Srt10-venom 1000
0-60 In Under 2.4 Seconds
It Has 1,000 Horse Power
And A Long List Of Other Performance Upgrades That Come With The Package
Price=$150,000

[Matra et Alpine]

My Numbers For The Viper Are Almost Correct
I Got Them From A Dupont Registry Magazine That Has One For Sale
Its Called The Dodge Viper Srt10-venom 1000
0-60 In Under 2.4 Seconds
It Has 1,000 Horse Power
And A Long List Of Other Performance Upgrades That Come With The Package
Price=$150,000
aha 'for sale'.
That's some seriosu engine upgrade, but the laws of physics apply.
Unles you fit big soft, fat tyres and soften them up on the drag strip that's the only way you'll get nearly 3 tons of car moving.
It's either a 'calculation' - like they did when the first launched the car :) - or it's from a drag run which has nothing to do with the real world.

Also it's not reasonable to include one-offs in best car lists.
ANY car can be made faster, but you lose things to achieve it.

[isenspen007]

The Enzo has amazing performance and I personally like how it looks but everyone is entitled to their opinion.

[Scientist]

The best European car of all times?
Would be a classic Ferrari for me, like the 250 GTO or something like that.
If it has to be a new car I would say a Porsche GT3 or the Enzo.

But it's an impossible choice to make...there are so many good cars

[SPN:DOC]

Porsche 356A Speedster. :p

[Alfahollic]

Any classic Ferrari or Alfa. I love the Ferrari Daytona 1968 car with 185mph. And my dad was so close to buying one but fell short on $$$. Settle for a Dino :mad:

[SL500]

288 GTO is the god
and i love the 250gt california spyder,too

[Ferrari Tifosi]

Tough choice, the best classic i'd say is a Ferrari 250 GTO or a Ferrari 365 GTB/4 Daytona. As far a modern goes, i'd say the Ferrari Enzo or a Porsche Carrera Gt, but definitely NOT a McLaren (most people make a big deal about this car when its not that great).

[Matra et Alpine]

but definitely NOT a McLaren (most people make a big deal about this car when its not that great).

ha :) ha :) ha :) with your nic and sig this makes me laugh :)

[Batmobile_Turbo]

aha 'for sale'.
That's some seriosu engine upgrade, but the laws of physics apply.
Unles you fit big soft, fat tyres and soften them up on the drag strip that's the only way you'll get nearly 3 tons of car moving.
It's either a 'calculation' - like they did when the first launched the car :) - or it's from a drag run which has nothing to do with the real world.

Also it's not reasonable to include one-offs in best car lists.
ANY car can be made faster, but you lose things to achieve it.
some of the venoms have over 1000hp, i don't really belive the figures either but vipers are pretty potent.

[Egg Nog]

definitely NOT a McLaren (most people make a big deal about this car when its not that great).

Well, that's pretty easy to say, but it's better when you actually express why you think this... with any horrendously biases aside, I can't possibly see how you think the McLaren F1 is "not that great".

[Matra et Alpine]

some of the venoms have over 1000hp, i don't really belive the figures either but vipers are pretty potent.
I don't doubt the power, but their is no way a street drivable version is doing 2.4 secs ! This thing is a HUGE lump of metal. A bit of salesmanship going on, it may be possible on a drag strip with big soft tyres. Not the same thing as a steet car :)

[DasModell]

those times are done with soft slicks ... :) :)

[werty]

I don't doubt the power, but their is no way a street drivable version is doing 2.4 secs ! This thing is a HUGE lump of metal. A bit of salesmanship going on, it may be possible on a drag strip with big soft tyres. Not the same thing as a steet car :)

THATS THE WHOLE POINT! IT ISN'T A STREET CAR, ITS A VIPER VENOM
AND YES 0-60 IN UNDER 2.4 IS VERY POSSIBLE
I'VE EVEN SEEN A NEW HIGHLY MODIFIED CORVETTE THAT WILL DO IT IN 1.7 SECONDS. YES THEY HAVE SPECIAL TIRES, AND YES A VIPER ENGINE CAN PRODUCE 1000 HP. ITS BORED OUT TO 8.8 LITERS FIRST OF ALL. ALL UNNESSCESARY WEIGHT IS REMOVED AND ALMOST NOTHING IS LEFT FROM A REGULAR SRT-10
IT CAN BE DONE

[SL500]

THATS THE WHOLE POINT! IT ISN'T A STREET CAR, ITS A VIPER VENOM
AND YES 0-60 IN UNDER 2.4 IS VERY POSSIBLE
I'VE EVEN SEEN A NEW HIGHLY MODIFIED CORVETTE THAT WILL DO IT IN 1.7 SECONDS. YES THEY HAVE SPECIAL TIRES, AND YES A VIPER ENGINE CAN PRODUCE 1000 HP. ITS BORED OUT TO 8.8 LITERS FIRST OF ALL. ALL UNNESSCESARY WEIGHT IS REMOVED AND ALMOST NOTHING IS LEFT FROM A REGULAR SRT-10
IT CAN BE DONE
Viper-Euro????

[Matra et Alpine]

THATS THE WHOLE POINT! IT ISN'T A STREET CAR, ITS A VIPER VENOM
AND YES 0-60 IN UNDER 2.4 IS VERY POSSIBLE
I'VE EVEN SEEN A NEW HIGHLY MODIFIED CORVETTE THAT WILL DO IT IN 1.7 SECONDS. YES THEY HAVE SPECIAL TIRES, AND YES A VIPER ENGINE CAN PRODUCE 1000 HP. ITS BORED OUT TO 8.8 LITERS FIRST OF ALL. ALL UNNESSCESARY WEIGHT IS REMOVED AND ALMOST NOTHING IS LEFT FROM A REGULAR SRT-10
IT CAN BE DONE

First, don't type iwith the Caps Lock key on.
Netiquette has it that you're shouting !!

Stop driveling on about what can be achieved with a vehicle to make it go fast in a straight line.
Most of the world doesn't care.
If it can't go round corners it's NOT a car.
Projectiles accelerate faster out of gun barrels, so if I paint some wheels on a shell can I call it the fastest ? :)

Oh and another rep-requisite for a car is NOT having to rebuild the engine every couple of runs !!

Go back to the sand-pit.

[werty]

First, don't type iwith the Caps Lock key on.
Netiquette has it that you're shouting !!

Stop driveling on about what can be achieved with a vehicle to make it go fast in a straight line.
Most of the world doesn't care.
If it can't go round corners it's NOT a car.
Projectiles accelerate faster out of gun barrels, so if I paint some wheels on a shell can I call it the fastest ? :)

Oh and another rep-requisite for a car is NOT having to rebuild the engine every couple of runs !!

Go back to the sand-pit.

first of all, I was not driveling about anything
someone asked for performance figures of fast cars and i delivered
Second, its not a drag racer at all, its meant for LeMans
And if you haven't heard yet, it has quite a few turns in it
THIRD, I WAS USING THE CAPS LOCK TO EMPHASIZE MY POINT AND EXCITEMENT IN THE PERFORMANCE FIGURES OF A VERY FAST VIPER

[Scientist]

first of all, I was not driveling about anything
someone asked for performance figures of fast cars and i delivered


Yeah, someone asked for performance figures of a EUROPEAN CAR. And I don't think the Viper is a European car. So this sould really be in the American Manufacturer forums...

[Alfahollic]

I would never consider an American car as being a great car nor a half decent car. Does that Viper still use Drum Brakes? :p

[Rusty]

To get back on track of the original question. Best European car ever in my opinion would probably be the Jag E-type.

Best current european car would in my opinion be the M5.

Just my 2 cents though

[edit] looks like I didnt read the question properly. But what the "best" car performance wise is I wouldnt know. But then again, what makes a car the best car is so much more then you can capture with performance figures.

In the end, this whole post is really abit pointless. Sorry about that. :D

[Matra et Alpine]

first of all, I was not driveling about anything
someone asked for performance figures of fast cars and i delivered
Second, its not a drag racer at all, its meant for LeMans
And if you haven't heard yet, it has quite a few turns in it
THIRD, I WAS USING THE CAPS LOCK TO EMPHASIZE MY POINT AND EXCITEMENT IN THE PERFORMANCE FIGURES OF A VERY FAST VIPER
First, the Viper is a US car, so no place in this thread.
Second, talking about how someone tuned car X to get speed Y isn't relevant in a best European car thread either. What you're talking about is best TUNER ! What was asked was car. So use production figures.
Third, netiquette uses *asterisk* for bold and caps for SHOUTING. And this forum s/w actually has the bold and underline character highlight which is better.
Fourth, lots of caps just hurts to read.
Fifth, that won't be the gears they'll use at Le Mans for sure. You don't need 0-60 first gear times for Le Mans, it's a 24 hour endurance and you want the tallest gear for Mulsanne and you don't go below 50. And big gear gaps just stresses things.
The case rests in the "you're talking drivel" charge. m'lud :)

[werty]

First, the Viper is a US car, so no place in this thread.
Second, talking about how someone tuned car X to get speed Y isn't relevant in a best European car thread either. What you're talking about is best TUNER ! What was asked was car. So use production figures.
Third, netiquette uses *asterisk* for bold and caps for SHOUTING. And this forum s/w actually has the bold and underline character highlight which is better.
Fourth, lots of caps just hurts to read.
Fifth, that won't be the gears they'll use at Le Mans for sure. You don't need 0-60 first gear times for Le Mans, it's a 24 hour endurance and you want the tallest gear for Mulsanne and you don't go below 50. And big gear gaps just stresses things.
The case rests in the "you're talking drivel" charge. m'lud :)

i see your point, but i'm just reading the words under the viper for sale;
and it may be a US car but the ad for sale says its a LeMans racer
so i assumed it would be ok to post about it in this thread
second thing is, i live in America and dont know your customs or even some of the words you are saying to me, so dont get your panties in a twist when someone uses caps in a sentence

[Matra et Alpine]

i see your point, but i'm just reading the words under the viper for sale;
and it may be a US car but the ad for sale says its a LeMans racer
so i assumed it would be ok to post about it in this thread
Well count it as a learned experience, everyting in an ad for a car may not be the truth :)

second thing is, i live in America and dont know your customs or even some of the words you are saying to me, so dont get your panties in a twist when someone uses caps in a sentence
The 'net has used "netiquette" for long enough for it to be accepted worldwide.
I was just trying to point that out to you and some folks get VERY annoyed at 'shouting'.
I personally just find it VERY hard to read - as do most.
Trying to offer some advice :)

[jones.dk]

Tough choice, the best classic i'd say is a Ferrari 250 GTO or a Ferrari 365 GTB/4 Daytona. As far a modern goes, i'd say the Ferrari Enzo or a Porsche Carrera Gt, but definitely NOT a McLaren (most people make a big deal about this car when its not that great).

how can you say that Mclaren isnt that great??? its probably some of the best car engineering ever!!!!

[Fluppe]

To me, the E55 Break is one of the most desirable cars for the moment, you might disagree, but you can't say that it isn't the fastest salooncar on the blue planet... The fun thing about it is that you can't just let your much younger wife ( all rich dudes have younger wives ) enjoy the acceleration of this machine, you can give this pleasure to your kids ( and the dog too, he's safe in the trunk ) at the same time! From Stutgart to Saint-Tropez in 4 houres ( luggage included! ) :cool:

[dave_fonz_164]

My Vote goes for the new Maserati Quattroporte V8 400hp, F1 paddle shifter wich can carry four totally comfortable adults while watching a DVD at speeds of 275kmh and look good while doing it, as well as being very exclsive. this car offers the best of both worlds.

[jones.dk]

My favorite european car is the Aston Martin DB9

[Ferrari Tifosi]

Well, that's pretty easy to say, but it's better when you actually express why you think this... with any horrendously biases aside, I can't possibly see how you think the McLaren F1 is "not that great".

Let me re-phrase myself. It is indeed a great car, but I don't believe the performance meets what most people see of it. .86 g's on a 200 ft skidpad isn't impressive to me for a car that cost 1 million dollars.

[Egg Nog]

Let me re-phrase myself. It is indeed a great car, but I don't believe the performance meets what most people see of it. .86 g's on a 200 ft skidpad isn't impressive to me for a car that cost 1 million dollars.

Well, if I was paying a million dollars for a car, I would also hope it got better gas milage. ;)

The F1 was designed to be the ultimate road car. It's posted skidpad figures are quite surprising (and arguably shameful), but that never detracted from the McLaren acheiving all that it set out to do, and more.

[Matra et Alpine]

Well, if I was paying a million dollars for a car, I would also hope it got better gas milage. ;)
Well as is often said, if you couldafford the car, who cares about gas prices ??

The F1 was designed to be the ultimate road car. It's posted skidpad figures are quite surprising (and arguably shameful), but that never detracted from the McLaren acheiving all that it set out to do, and more.
Road car is the important comment.
The F1 is reasonable comfort.
A lot of the cars capable of higher lateral forces are MUCH stiffer to keep the maximum rubber on the ground.
Wouldn't want to take them onto a public road like that :)
I keep repeating myself, but comparisons need to be on a level field.
I don't think the F1 will still be iltimate but I think it would be a lot closer than 'engineeered' numbers.

[Ferrari Tifosi]

Well, if I was paying a million dollars for a car, I would also hope it got better gas milage. ;)

The F1 was designed to be the ultimate road car. It's posted skidpad figures are quite surprising (and arguably shameful), but that never detracted from the McLaren acheiving all that it set out to do, and more.

I agree. Sorry, Its hard for me not to just focus on performance aspects of a car. Luxury items and comfort and baggage space don't matter to me.

[bum-man]

Let me re-phrase myself. It is indeed a great car, but I don't believe the performance meets what most people see of it. .86 g's on a 200 ft skidpad isn't impressive to me for a car that cost 1 million dollars.
:eek: did it really get .86g's on the skid pad? that is absolutely horrid if it did since most modern sedans can easily achieve that or better!

[IL Duce]

Originally Posted by 'dave fonz 164':
My Vote goes for the new Maserati Quattroporte V8 400hp, F1 paddle shifter wich can carry four totally comfortable adults while watching a DVD at speeds of 275kmh and look good while doing it, as well as being very exclsive. this car offers the best of both worlds.

Hey I totally agree
Maserati has made fantastic luxery and fast sedans through the years.. The first two doesnt seem to catch me much, but the 1994 one and especially the 1976 model really seem to be one of the worlds best (that is in performance and exterior, cause I reckon the reliability is not important here ;) ) sedans in history to me... It's just gorgeous...
and the 1994 ottocilindri evoluzione...owww what a car must that be :D
Of course, the new one is also really what a fast luxery sedan must be like anytime....

1+2 1976 Qporte III
3 1994 Qporte IV
4 2003 Qporte V

[Matra et Alpine]

:eek: did it really get .86g's on the skid pad? that is absolutely horrid if it did since most modern sedans can easily achieve that or better!
The formula for lateral-g is dependant on the speed, the time and the radius of the curve taken.
Without know the radius and time there's a lot of variability in publishing lateral-g figures.

For example, have you ever done a handbrake turn ?
Well you just exceeded 1g lateral :)
But it was for a VERY short time.

Before comparing, make sure it's like for like.
And remember a manufacturer will publish numbers to attract buyers (Koenigsegg????!!)

[Ferrari Tifosi]

:eek: did it really get .86g's on the skid pad? that is absolutely horrid if it did since most modern sedans can easily achieve that or better!

Yes that really is what it achieved on the 200ft skid pad

[Matra et Alpine]

Yes that really is what it achieved on the 200ft skid pad
skid pad ??
It wouldn't make sense to measure lateral-g capability of a car on a skid pad which is laid to be particularly slippy tarmac.
The loop at our local circuit Crail is VERY slippy and I can get the A610 sideways and hold it there at only 30mph there is so little grip available. That doesn't measure the car's capability.
Does anyone know what the standard is when magazines, journos and manufacuirers do these tests ??