Future of the LS1?

[Ride 440]

Hey fellas,

I was just reading through an article about Holdens supply of the Monaro for export and i came accross this:


New emission regulations have emerged as one reason the Australian car is going out of production.

Australia will switch to stricter Euro 3 emission standards in January and the Monaro's 5.7-litre LS1 engine will not comply because of its unique installation and calibration.

Holden won't discuss the effect on other LS1-powered models, including the SS Commodore, though there is no hint of a threat to them. The later LS2 6.0-litre V8 used in the GTO and HSV cars is fine.

The latter part of this seems rather interesting. How will Holden manage the LS1 in its range? They could detune it, but god forbid that. Will the SS switch to LS2? Will they can the LS1s (thus SS etc) until the VE, due only months after the Euro 3 restrictions are bought in?

So many questions, so little answers :p

[SlickHolden]

It's amazing what holden has done so far with the LS1, But detune would be the biggest (Close the doors stop building car for ever) Wrong thing to do.
FPV_GTHO was talking aobut the 5.3Lt LS3 LS4 can't remeber which one.
But he was saying to get 250-270kw from it it will be hitting it hard cause standard is 220-225kw. So in the end they might have no choice but to go with the LS2.

[fpv_gtho]

Yeah it was the 5.3 LS4 but i dont know what state of tune thats considered to be in. More will definately be able to taken out of it, but i dare say te easier and cheaper option is to drop the LS2 down to 250kw and have LS2Edit go crazy like the original LS1 version did..

[SlickHolden]

A LS2 smooth driver @ 270kw would be nice:D

[Ride 440]

im certainly for an LS2 lol... :D

but i didnt know even an LS3 or LS4 existed :o

in the topic of LSs, any more news on the LS7 and its possible venture to the folks at Clayton?

[fpv_gtho]

probably gunna have to wait for 2007 when the VE GTS gets released for that one

[2ndclasscitizen]

I'm assuming the problem comes from the rather large exhausts the monaro runs? And i thought LS1 production is stopping soon anyway so it won't be a problem

[SlickHolden]

Are they saying the Monaro is to loud??? Cause most of the LS1 drivers want sound lol:D

[2ndclasscitizen]

no its emissions, i don't think the euros are too worried by noise, i mean a big reason why the nobles where taking so long to get ADR approval was because they are too noisy

[SlickHolden]

So why can't they just build a new exhuast system for it? Or make a fake twin exhuast system:p

[fpv_gtho]

a fake system wouldnt be worth getting the car past ADR's with all the negative publicity it would then bring...

its not just a problem with the Monaro though...its all LS1's affected

i think as far as supply is concerned though, that wont be a problem till closer to the end of the decade. Ford locally ran for several years from stockpiled 302's in the Falcon aferall

[SlickHolden]

So if the LS1 is out for the VE then it's LS2 or LS4 and the LS4 cranked to 260-270kw might be to much? So soon?

[fpv_gtho]

yeah thats what it looks like...but keep in mind the VE will be about 100kg heavier than the VZ

[DrGonzo]

I have heard from a good source that the VE SS will be LS2 powered and have anywhere between 270-300kw. Prepare also for a turbocharged SV6 to compete directly with XR6T.

[fpv_gtho]

Prepare also for a turbocharged SV6 to compete directly with XR6T.

That ones really a tough issue as on one point, Holden are giving Ford a massive piece of market with no competition, but on the same note they havent expressed any desire to join them either. Half the XR6T's popularity myst be because of its aftermarket appeal compared to the BOSS, yet the LS1 is probably ahead of the turbo anyway by a fair margin

[SlickHolden]

I have a good plan.
Commodore SV8 SS Caprice SS ute. Crewaman SS To all share the LS2.
Commodore base executive will now be option LS4 230kw. Utes and AWD utes LS4. Calais LS4 240kw. Berlina LS4 230kw. Statesman LS4 240kw.
Something like this.
Commodores Exec. Acclaim. Berlina. ute exec, S, Cross 8, AWD utes. Statesman 1 Adventra. All with LS4 230-250kw.
Commodore SV8, SS, SS ute, Crewman SS, Caprice, 1 Adventra to share the LS2 260-280kw

What you think?

The next HSV's will have exstrackters and make 310-315kw thats a gap of 30-35kw between holden and hsv.

[clutch-monkey]

yeah thats what it looks like...but keep in mind the VE will be about 100kg heavier than the VZ
they keep getting heavier and heavier with each generation :mad:

[fpv_gtho]

mind you, safer and better handling (stock) whilst theyre at it

[SlickHolden]

They needed some weight not that much but the cars body needed to be stronger, Safer. The base might have a nice handling in the VE? But i think Holden might loose it's hard handling at high speeds but gain better all round handling.

[fpv_gtho]

well its sheer physics that they cant keep the current cars characteristics whilst in a heavier car. they can either run stiffer springs and have a harsher ride, or softer springs and compromise load capacity and high speed stability

[SlickHolden]

I wonder how they will do it, I read some of them jurno's did a run in the insignia, And even though speeds were slow they liked the feel of it, They wanted to get under for a look but the yanks stopped them:D Cheaky jurno's:)

[fpv_gtho]

theyre swapping for more modern suspension systems, so at least there they might be able to retain bump absorption etc and have good roadholding and cornering

[SlickHolden]

A Commodore that handles bumps and humps and corners with road holding in the base would have many Holden fans saying finally:D And motor and wheels might have to say something nice about the base lol:p

[fpv_gtho]

It all may seem like theyre on for the perfect system, but until its launched you'll never know. Ford would have everyone think their suspension would keep everyone happy, but 5 up its too soft, and through the corners theres just a tad too much softness

[SlickHolden]

Even my car is on the hard side, But then i found out i have pedders sports ryder shocks:D

[fpv_gtho]

well the shocks will only change the behaviour of the springs, not so much their stiffness or anything

[DrGonzo]

That ones really a tough issue as on one point, Holden are giving Ford a massive piece of market with no competition, but on the same note they havent expressed any desire to join them either. Half the XR6T's popularity myst be because of its aftermarket appeal compared to the BOSS, yet the LS1 is probably ahead of the turbo anyway by a fair margin

Yeah, the XR6T slots in at about 5K cheaper than the SS and offers better performance, and equal (if not better) options and features. So yeah, it takes a percentage of Holden's market - that's why I chose mine over the SS and XR8.

There's also the fact that turbo cars are becoming more popular now that the WRX and Evo are so popular, as well as the countless imports which are flooding our market, and the locals have realised that there's a market for these buyers also - this is a niche market, but one which needs to be servied also.

With regard to the XR6Ts popularity, yes, a large appeal is due to the aftermarket tuners and the ease from which power is extracted from them (ECU edit, exhaust, valve springs, CAI will get you 300+kw easily), but don't forget that the mod market is a niche one - not everyone is doing it. I really think that the XR6Ts market advantage is its bang for your buck... and this the market Holden will try to crack into with the VE.

[SlickHolden]

How does the XR6T offer better performence? It might have better aftermarket parts cheaper but performemce wise and option features the SS should have it over it just.
I really thought Holden made the SV8 to go head to head with the XR6T?

well the shocks will only change the behaviour of the springs, not so much their stiffness or anything
My mate's VR is soft compared to my car. His old VR would bottom out at standard height. Myn won't come close:p

[DrGonzo]

SS vs XR6T and the XR6T is marginally quicker.
SV8 is a different story as in a straight line its margnally quicker than the SS.
We're not talking massive differences here though...

As for SV8 going head to head with XR6T - how so? The SV8 is basically a V8 powered Exec - it has no features (you have to option up), cheap low rent interior, spongy handling and suspension...

[fpv_gtho]

having peak torque at 2000rpm would make it feel alot faster in day to day driving as well, as well as a general seat of your pants feeling i'd say.

[DrGonzo]

Yes, definitely. And 450nm is nothing to sneeze at either.

[SlickHolden]

There is now way the new SV8 is exec base;) Or cheap low rent.
And one thing they are not is spongy hard not spongy handling.
They would run a SS a rip it NP.
But to be honest the only time i have seen the XR6T beat the SS is overtaking speeds and 0-30-40 times.

I remember the GT drivers felt like they had heaps more then the VYII HSV's by feeling like ummmmmm forgot his name now with his dads GT orange in Queensland?..
He always said it felt heaps faster more urgent on take off and no matter how many times we said it didn't have the HSV's speed he wouldn't belive it. All the wheels and motor times he wouldn't belive them cause he did a 5.5second 0-100 time with a stop watch do you remember that one kos?

[DrGonzo]

.
But to be honest the only time i have seen the XR6T beat the SS is overtaking speeds and 0-30-40 times.

Define "seen".. do you mean "read"? Don't take this the wrong way because I have no idea what your experinces are with these cars, but I strongly suggest driving them both to draw your own conclusions - if you have, well I guess it all comes down to our own opinions and what we feel from the front seat dyno :)




All the wheels and motor times he wouldn't belive them cause he did a 5.5second 0-100 time with a stop watch do you remember that one kos?
Have you noticed how (for example) one mag quotes 0-400m in the XR6T 14.8, whereas the next one quotes 14.2? I know of some completely stock examples running 13.9s.
The reason for this is that most mags have press cars with maybe 5000kms on them, but with a lot of these cars, their power doesn't actually free up til well over 10000kms.
Also the running inprocedures make a difference to the power and speed of some cars compared with others. Plus, there are some freak cars out there as well :)

On the other hand, a stop-watch or even a G-Tech meter won't give you a 100% accurate result :)

[SlickHolden]

So you need to drive a car to know it's speeds ? Feeling what are feelings really they are just that feelings.
The only time most of us know what speeds cars really do is read the mags, As we can't drag up and about like they do or have the technology that they have at will.
A stop watch is hardly the best thing:)
But take this my Brother has a stock 95 Fairmont Ghia 6. He ripped a XR6 apart should that have happened?
I keeped up with a VQII V8 Statesman going on the freeway in My Stock VP Commodore should that have happened. I bet the ride in the VQ Statesman would have felt faster then my car and there are many things that feel faster. but aren't.
So really these mags do what ever they do with there expensive equipment and really would get much closer to the real speeds over us. But i always thought depending on time of day weather driver gear changing etc would have been the difference in those times?
I just drove a 2004 Toyota Avalon and it was a fast car with some high revs and some good torque. But after reading about it's speeds i was shocked they said 0-100 time 9.5seconds :eek: it felt as fast as the VP which was a 0-100 8 second car.
I really think the Turbos give off more of a power feeling like the VL Calais did. They throw you back as my brothers old VL calais did with a lower boost cause of the diff that was about to go. Still felt great and sucks your eyes out:p

[DrGonzo]

Magazines offer very good insights - but unless you take a car out in the real world and race it (if you are that way inclined) you really never will know. I agree with what you are saying to an extent, but on the other hand, if you don't have any real experience, I don't think basing facts on what was read in magazines is right - take the example I gave about the XR6T 0-400m times for example. But hey, if you want to take what Motor and Wheels say as gospel, I'm not stopping you...

And yeah, as for turbos feeling faster than they are, I'll agree with that - especially with the laggier cars. The sudden rush of boost gives a false sense of speed.

The less laggier and more progressive turbos - not so much. Eg I wouldn't say that the XR6Ts power hits you at once - it's very progressive, but from about 3000RPM onwards it really pins you back in your seat the same way a V8 with similar power would.

[SlickHolden]

Well i have been half way to a turbo, The BA ute 6gas and Ba ute barra6.
My brother has been in a XR6T he will tell you it will kiss the XR8 good bye but not the SS.

[Blue Supra]

Ive driven an XR6T and an SS not the XR8 though.

Conclusion:
XR6T has a stupid clutch
SS was an auto

cant be compared :p

[DrGonzo]

XR6T clutch is very heavy for a street car. Its not stupid, just takes a bit of getting used to. Actually, the friction point is weird too.

[SlickHolden]

Have a spin in my brothers clutch it's short hard and hard, And did i say hard:eek:

[DrGonzo]

haha I had a 1 tomme pressure plate in my old 13B powered Capella - I swear my left leg was bigger than my right leg after a while :D

[SlickHolden]

I had cramps in it:p And all i could think of is his wife drives that:eek:.

[Blue Supra]

XR6T clutch is very heavy for a street car. Its not stupid, just takes a bit of getting used to. Actually, the friction point is weird too.

i was being facecious.

i agree the XR6T has a strange friction point. As in "where trhe hell is it :confused: "

[fpv_gtho]

try the F6 then...supposedly its right up te top of the clutch's reach..

[SlickHolden]

My brother got this ford book that only workers get, And he was showing me the problem with the F6 clutch, And how they fixed it.

[fpv_gtho]

thats been highly publicised anyway

[SlickHolden]

But one thing that wasn't was how the F6 drivers were all offerd a FPV car for the time that there cars would be out of action:) Many never knew about that or the media didn't hid that to make a better low blow story?

[fpv_gtho]

some people did report it, it wasnt exactly kept under the carpet. Surprisingly, only about 20% of the buyers took that offer with most of the others choosing to drive their F6's around till the fix was out

[SlickHolden]

FPV would have said you drive you take into your own hands of it brakes down.
I would have said give me the GT for now cause i wont be able to help myself i'd give it some stick and blow the clutch:p

[fpv_gtho]

I dont think they wouldve cared, those 20 odd GT's they gave people as courtesy cars are no better than used cars now anyway

[SlickHolden]

True but would have been fun:D Maybe most of the F6 owners might have said hey i bought a F6 for turbo6 not so i can drive the V8 around, I might as well drive the F6 till they fix the problem and just be a little careful not to do a motor shift:D

[fpv_gtho]

to an extent it wouldve allowed them to give a bit more mechanical abuse withot worrying about replacing a $2K clutch or anything...as FPV needed to put a re-engineered unit in anyway...

some people apparently even had david flint calling them and keeping them updated with how it was going

[SlickHolden]

Sounds like me:) I would have been on the phone every 3 days to check on the progress.

[fpv_gtho]

You wouldve been back every 3 days every time they thought they had a clutch fix as well with the thing broken again :p

[SlickHolden]

Strong left leg:D They might ban me ohhh no it's that bloody slick again whats he broke this week:mad: :D

[Blue Supra]

"slicks back... what do you need this time slick?"
"new rear tyres"
"WHAT AGAIN! :eek: "

:D

[fpv_gtho]

you have to wonder if they'd replace the tyres :p neither those or the clutch are warrantable items, although i think thats more for wear than any defects

[Blue Supra]

they wouldnt.

its like crisis' SV8, they wouldnt replace his clutch as its a "wearable" item.

[fpv_gtho]

i guess his pressure plate argument didnt stand then?

[Blue Supra]

oh he got his done only because he knew people on the inside of Holden.
Youre average driver has no hope pretty much of claiming a clutch on warranty.

[fpv_gtho]

not without massive technical analysis of the clutch and dragging it through court, i guess not :p

[SlickHolden]

They might need to replace something on me VP soon the way i drove it saturday:p
My nephew has paid out $2000 on the VL Calais.
Done this tune $250 extra 20kw 10Nm it's a ripper. Tranny $250 internals changed strengthen 10 times better changes. LSD 3.9 $1100. Exstracters sports exhuast. Adjustable this and that:p He's telling me it's hot so we went for a drive and it's fast allright.
Couldnt help myself i said come on lets see what it can do;)
So up the street we go he's infront we come to a corner he goes and i give it to myn. Drops to first and allready i'm up his date like no tomorrow. Can't pass parked cars so i get off the peddle, SHIT that stuffed me up all the way for about 300-500 meters i was up behind him. I told him when we stopped that i had him around the corner when myn dropped back a gear and lepped up like a woman with rats at her feet, But didnt wan't to slam up his rear so i had to get off the peddle, But after that it was all the way even he's got that car running fast.
MY Bro had a back op thursday so we all wen't into the city to see him, I wen't with my nephew in the Calais. A guy in a EA Falcon 5lt tried to drag him:p Mate he's Calais had him all the way to 90kp/h then he backed off and this guy was shitty he almost drove up and over the gutter. He must have thought it was turbo:p.
To anyone that didnt know the car they would swear it was turbo.
But this thing has got that fast i'm thinking i better get me injectors and a engine tune also:D

He want's to go Calder drags one night 1/4 i said maybe i might?

[fpv_gtho]

so the 5 speed's all nice and smooth now

[SlickHolden]

Nah he still has the 4speed my bro got the 5 speed:).
I wish and so does he that we had 5 speeds:p But he can't drive the sticks LOL:D Bunny hop:D
But what ever they done to his auto is what i won't done it's great. It responds when it should and is very smooth. And they also gave it some extra RPM in the gears so it's right on the mark with Torque in all the good spots that myn leaves out:( Myn is to tall in first And then the Revs are to short kills second gear.
I'll have to save some money after the injectors which i still havent got, And do the Tranny.
The guy there was going to get me new bosch injectors for $90 each. A bosch dealer told me $150 each:eek:. But i'm short only have $400. And saving for bathurst is tuff so money is short all over till after Oct.
Got the Ticket money grandstand. Don't know if we got a campsite it's gone on the website so we might be capsiteless:eek:. Havent booked the car yet havent got the money for that yet. Got $100 Away as spending money.
But iof i wasnt going to bathurst i would have a half a mint lol.

On the petrol side i get about 90k's to $30 local driving standard unleaded.
But with Vortex $30 wen't 140k's local driving. I have used Vortex twice but the other day i had to get Standard Unleaded it was $1.25 L...... NFW WTF!.

[fpv_gtho]

so does that mean your not filling the tank up full anymore?

[SlickHolden]

Yeah i give it the full but the $30 and $20's are in the second week when it's almost ran out and i think WTF i have only drove it 280k's and it's almost empty:(.

I got a pic i'll show you where it starts to run sick cause it runs out above the red and that's shocking i think.
So when it's about that red line i wont let it go below the next white line cause it seems like it's picking up crap and running a little sicker.

See my Rev's that's warming up cold i think it runs way to low on revs sitting warm. It will drop 300RPM from what it;s at there.
http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=124001&stc=1

[fpv_gtho]

thats pretty bad....and your 110% sure its not cause of a 50kg right foot :p

[SlickHolden]

Sometimes:p But 99% of the time i drive it real good i like to look after it if i give it some the day before then for the rest of the week i drive it more on the easy side to look after it. But of late i'm getting the petrol smell in the car now not just out the exhuast. My nephews mechanic told me it's running rich and the injectors are loud. But my brother said that when i bought it, But we spend a shit load out on other things when we should have just got them done from the start:).
When i give it to it it lets out this cloud of very hard to see mist easy to see at night with car lights behind but day harder. It does it when dropping into lower gears at Full throttle or full throttle into 2nd gear. It doesn't much anymore on take off.
When it's warm it's hard to start and it's got the smallest little miss in it.
So all in all it's not really at 100%:eek: My baby might have more go go in it still:p

[fpv_gtho]

My baby might have more go go in it still:p

I think thats a definate, just get the injectors and play around with the tune maybe and it'll be flying

[SlickHolden]

It's good to know it's got more then it allready has, I have been impressed from the start with it's speed, I have been lucky to have driven from V6 Buicks to V6 Ecotec's and given them all a foot. But biased as it might sound the VP seems faster when it gets it right then the rest. It's the only V6 standard that i know of that can cherp the rears dropping done a gear accelarating from 40kp/h. I must admit i need to go man shift to get it to 100 fast, Just a little hold in 1st to 4900 rpm and it rips 2nd gear up hard. It's amazing 400 rpm cost the car a good 2 seconds.

But i'll grab the injectors, Get a good tune, Change the leads which i havent done yet, Get a K&N air filter the old is gone, And down the track get that tranny servies:)

[fpv_gtho]

have u had it downchange midcorner on you yet? i get that heaps whenever i try give mums camry a bit around too tight of a corner, its like at 5km/h it shifts to 2nd, just to shit down at 10

[SlickHolden]

Nah not really it holds 2nd gear well, But if i gave it to it as i have only once it drops donw and it's a little scary:D. Even when i drive like a ant from take off it won't change to 2nd under 20kp/h. But anywhere around 45kp/h it will drop back to first and go nutty.
But how is this for funny and goes to show how the 4500rpm 1st gear sucks.

Once i took off out of a corner full throttle, Wheelspin the works got around almost straight hits 4500rpm Changes into 2nd gear stops wheelspin, Then without moving my foot at all drops back down to 1st again and burns off?? Doesnt that sound like a funny traction control LOL... First thing i would do to the tranny is get 1st gear to rev to 4900RPM, And maybe thats all?

[fpv_gtho]

thats not traction control thats just the dodgy computer hooked up to Holdens 4 speed :p they only just sorted that issue with the VZ

[nota]

Pardon me walking in on your convo but don't those old THMs like on VP use hydraulic (vaccum modulator) shift control, not electronic (eg 'computer') :confused: Could be rong but I though Commodore THMs belatedly upgraded to electronic control only on VY or VZ?


Once i took off out of a corner full throttle, Wheelspin the works got around almost straight hits 4500rpm Changes into 2nd gear stops wheelspin, Then without moving my foot at all drops back down to 1st again and burns off?? Doesnt that sound like a funny traction control LOL... First thing i would do to the tranny is get 1st gear to rev to 4900RPM, And maybe thats all?
That sounds pretty normal auto trans behaviour to me: high revs & unladen wheelspin gives rising vaccum which tells it to upshift, then it gains traction through less power in 2nd and bogs down, so downshifts again

I reckon with low-rev but torque-rich engines like VP V6, in many street-drive situations for max acceleration you often end up quicker overall if you keep it in the 'meat & potatoes' rev range, rather than fruitlessly buzzing it over the top of the cam (ie: above its torque curve) where the acceleration tapers off

[SlickHolden]

Yep can't do good corner burnouts if the bit#h changes into 2nd gear mid corner:mad:
Then back to 1st:eek:.

The other night it was wet i took off from the lights got about 25 meters up the road and it wheel spun:p I thought OMG.

[SlickHolden]

Pardon me walking in on your convo but don't those old THMs like on VP use hydraulic (vaccum modulator) shift control, not electronic (eg 'computer') :confused: Could be rong but I though Commodore THMs belatedly upgraded to electronic control only on VY or VZ?


That sounds pretty normal auto trans behaviour to me: high revs & unladen wheelspin gives rising vaccum which tells it to upshift, then it gains traction through less power in 2nd and bogs down, so downshifts again

I reckon with low-rev but torque-rich engines like VP V6, in many street-drive situations for max acceleration you often end up quicker overall if you keep it in the 'meat & potatoes' rev range, rather than fruitlessly buzzing it over the top of the cam (ie: above its torque curve) where the acceleration tapers off
I found it's good spot is about 4900rpm in 1st. That gives good go into second. For fastest accelaration i go hand shift up. Watching the dial it really moves fast from 4000rpm to 5000rpm, I feel it's best spot is 4900-5000 rpm, But they can go 5500rpm, But i have done this and anything 5100rpm above is really dead flat no pull at all.

Cause In Auto mode it's flat as a tack into 2nd, Like most of the holdens even the VL was the same they were limited with 1st gear but i think it hurts the V6's more.

[nota]

With relatively light body & grunty donk those early V6 Commos are surprisngly quick. IIRC the 0-400m times via Wheels for model-intro VN V6s, they were 15.4 (VN S 5sp M) and 15.6 (Exec M) & 15.8 (Exec A). For perspective, I remember original tests of the fastest model of the original-gen Monaros (HT 350) which did a 15.4~15.6. So I wouldn't call V6 a Commo a slow car, no .. :)

[SlickHolden]

I wouldnt also in fact i think myn standard can beat all VN's-VR's. And it's got some things that need fixing also. The Tranny does need a servies bad. I need injectors they are done gone dead. I only fixed the part of the exhaust that wasnt Road worthy some of it is pancaked from when it was super to low. And i need the Air filter cleaner done. Plus it does need a tune-up it sat for 12 months before i got it:)
I was telling FPV-gtho how @ 40kp/h when i plant it and it drops down the gears it cherps the rears i love it:D

[nota]

I was telling FPV-gtho how @ 40kp/h when i plant it and it drops down the gears it cherps the rears i love it:D
:D

You'd be faster than me that's for sure

[SlickHolden]

:D

You'd be faster than me that's for sure
Do you drive a VP?

[nota]

Nah mate but I'm into the cheapies like you :p

#1
Recently got this 380SE its a good tidy car, sunroof reco-V8 leather, only $3k.

#2
Wife has almost identical (even same colour!) but 280SE 6cyl slug, we got that for $2k, the big tanks are worth little these days ;)

[Rockefella]

Nah mate but I'm into the cheapies like you :p

#1
Recently got this 380SE its a good tidy car, sunroof reco-V8 leather, only $3k.

#2
Wife has almost identical (even same colour!) but 280SE 6cyl slug, we got that for $2k, the big tanks are worth little these days ;)
My father's got a 1983 300 SD Turbo Diesel, same color/look as your Merc's.

[SlickHolden]

Nah mate but I'm into the cheapies like you :p

#1
Recently got this 380SE its a good tidy car, sunroof reco-V8 leather, only $3k.

#2
Wife has almost identical (even same colour!) but 280SE 6cyl slug, we got that for $2k, the big tanks are worth little these days ;)
:eek: Dam man that's so cheap and in such good condition also:)
The only leather i got is my nephews wallet when he gets in LOL:D

[fpv_gtho]

Pardon me walking in on your convo but don't those old THMs like on VP use hydraulic (vaccum modulator) shift control, not electronic (eg 'computer') :confused: Could be rong but I though Commodore THMs belatedly upgraded to electronic control only on VY or VZ?

I think weve got a conundrum on our hands here. Im not sure what the VP's had, but Holden easly had the electronically controlled unit for the VT.

[nota]

I think weve got a conundrum on our hands here. Im not sure what the VP's had, but Holden easly had the electronically controlled unit for the VT.
Dunno mate, not a transmission expert but is it accurate that VN/VP (V6 & V8) had THM700 a full hydraulic, then VR/VY used the 4L60E (hydro shift with electronic converter-lockup controller) and VZ updated 4L60E to elec shift control?

All the above only goes to show how far Falcon was in front with its sweet BTR local-designed/built full-electronic auto, adopted way back on EA2 :D

[fpv_gtho]

Dunno mate, not a transmission expert but is it accurate that VN/VP (V6 & V8) had THM700 a full hydraulic, then VR/VY used the 4L60E (hydro shift with electronic converter-lockup controller) and VZ updated 4L60E to elec shift control?

Slick'll appreciate this site: http://www.commodores-r-us.com/vpcom.html

Couldnt see any mention of whether it was hydro or electro though.

EDIT: looking a the VR though, they make mention of the 4L60-E being added with "electronic controls for smoother shifts" http://www.commodores-r-us.com/vrcom.html


All the above only goes to show how far Falcon was in front with its sweet BTR local-designed/built full-electronic auto, adopted way back on EA2 :D

Well ive been thinking tha, from '89 onwards they had that upper hand. Not only that, they gave back to the local industry as opposed to raiding Detroits parts bin

[SlickHolden]

Comms rus thats where i go to see all the info's on the power torque and stuff from the models:D

Can't talk long but i just bought brand new Bosch injectors $280 My bro and i fit them today and it's allready got some extra reponse and it starts first time everytime to:D
Also one of the injectors had a slight crack on the bottom they really were Fu*#ed.

Now it's to the Full tank and lets see how far i get on a full 63 litre tank:)
And i better get 400+ out of it:p

[nota]

My father's got a 1983 300 SD Turbo Diesel, same color/look as your Merc's.
At one stage Mercedes was appaerntly offering eleven different shades of silver/grey :D No doubt about it, the Germans like their silvers

No diesel W126s sold in Oz, but for what its worth (probably little) here's a superficial but informative buyer review (http://carpoint.ninemsn.com.au/portal/alias__carpointau/tabID__6485/ArticleID__7186/DesktopDefault.aspx) :)


The only leather i got is my nephews wallet when he gets in LOL
ROLF you should upstage him with RM Williams kangaroo-skin wallet I've got one they're great.

It seems few buyers in Canberra want or are prepared to take a risk on old S-class so very hard to sell & prices have crashed, a buyers-market here for sure. But if you wait around & know what to look for/avoid, the decent ones can be real bargain buys imo :)

[fpv_gtho]

Comms rus thats where i go to see all the info's on the power torque and stuff from the models:D

Can't talk long but i just bought brand new Bosch injectors $280 My bro and i fit them today and it's allready got some extra reponse and it starts first time everytime to:D
Also one of the injectors had a slight crack on the bottom they really were Fu*#ed.

Now it's to the Full tank and lets see how far i get on a full 63 litre tank:)
And i better get 400+ out of it:p

its positive to see some gain but the real gains should come if you get the new tune for it.

[SlickHolden]

Yep my brother wen't for a spin and the first thing he said to me was. This Tranny needs a servies:p He told me it changed out of first under 4000rpm 100% go.
He also took off doing a burnout and he said when he came back that was with no brake:D But siting back watching it i still am amazed at how quite it is for a Holden 3.8lt V6. One's of my brothers mates came from down the road and his family has a VRII Calais in mint nick, He's comment to me was it's very quite what have you dont to the exhuast:p Nothing mate it's just one that holden wish they had for 99% of the old V6's LOL.
You will laugh we were takeing the injectors out and removed the fuelk rail first, And the built up pressure of the fuel just wen't bang and all this massive fuel came out in 1 big spray:p All over us woops he said forgot about that:). But to be honest it was a far more easy job then i thought, He isnt ment ot be doing things like this after back surgury, So he was to sit back and tell me what to do. Well after removing 3 injectors he came in and took over he can't help himself:D.
But he want's to go for a drive to seymore to have a Burger and Donut:p Just to give the car a good long run and see how the petrol goes with it.
But i am amazed at how it seems like it's not missing anymore now and the revs in drive and park and very strong and smooth now. But i'll still get that tune and tranny tune. Then i hope someone gets a Video Camera so i can take it in the car with me:D

In about to months my nephew and i will go calder drags, I will guess my time now, I think i will do a 16.1.. 1/4..... They say 15.2 ..1/4 But that's new.
If i can go sub 16 i'll be happy. If i pull a 17 i'll cry:p

[Blue Supra]

if the datto pulled 18's im sure the VP will do 16's for you mate :)

good to hear youre getting it all in order. Its a good feeling to have your car all sorted and no bugs, Im getting a new gearbox, clutch and flywheel fitted this weekend, we'll give her a good squirt after :D should run 14's im hoping.

[SlickHolden]

I wish i could do so much more but the $$$ are always tight, Bathurst is comming and if i dont save i'm up shit creek with a bar wire canoo paddling with a faulk:p
I got a list up on the fridge and i have done 4 allready in 2 months.
Manifold, Dash lights, Drive belt, Front springs,

Left is some little improvements like.... Rear boot garnish, Spark splugs leads, Rocket cover gasket, Engine tune, Tranny servies. Front tyres for my interceptors in the shed.

Other things i want for my fun are, ... Headers Exhuast (The old has pancake sections must cost me some performence there:(). Lowerd springs 45mm. VX 17" SS rims:p.
It's running as good as every now. It's smooth on the road but needs a tranny serives.
Other then that the only thing that wont work is the A/C and Intria light:eek:.

But you like my nephew mate he's doing things that you are now he's into getting every bit out of the car without going sick on it, He wants some extra power and torque and drivability make the suspension better also:)
If you run 14's you might take a VT HSV stock down the 1/4 give them the bird they will cry:p

[fpv_gtho]

If ou dont run 16's, i dare say you'll spin it up too easily on launch :p although any decent drag surface is alot harder to spin the wheels as the track has alot more grip. alot of people in manuals have been caught out by that, having the engine bog down or the clutch burn up a bit as theyve perfected their launches for the street

[SlickHolden]

So i might need some tips here:)

Hows this get to stage brake 1st go manual shifting. get the revs to about 3500rpm launch it in the meat of the torqe zone:D Will that work??

[fpv_gtho]

be careful, with the extra revs comes extra mechanical abuse. luckily, the torque converter will save you alot of trouble

[SlickHolden]

So just give it maybe 2500rpm and rip it and hope i hit 2nd right on the meat to keep the boy moving fast:) All i want to do is beat my nephew:p
He's spent $3000 all up now maybe. I spent $1700 on the car and $800 fixing it up and he thinks as he has all along he can beat me:D But as i showed him around the corner myn rips power much lower then his does and thats where i should get him plus the V6 should built it's revs faster i hope:D

[fpv_gtho]

yeah start at low revs and work from there, dont try a mega 4000rpm dump and figure out you just sit there spinning, just for your night to be ruined by a busted tranny

[Matra et Alpine]

be careful, with the extra revs comes extra mechanical abuse. luckily, the torque converter will save you alot of trouble
and cause you lots too if you hold it too long :(
Mate was going through a couple of transmissions a YEAR on his modified 300ZX.
Each year he says "no more drag racing" , but he always turns up to Crail on the big events -- and does a transmission in :(

[fpv_gtho]

Is that a stock transmission hes running? Or at least the one that came in the car (so perhaps heavily modified)?

Plenty of people here when they get serious will swap to something like a C4, C6 or C10 which although are only 3 speed's IIRC, theyre plenty strong and have plenty of upgradeable parts on the market

[Matra et Alpine]

Is that a stock transmission hes running? Or at least the one that came in the car (so perhaps heavily modified)?

Plenty of people here when they get serious will swap to something like a C4, C6 or C10 which although are only 3 speed's IIRC, theyre plenty strong and have plenty of upgradeable parts on the market
Not sure, I know he's had to make some minor mods as he's installed different ones. But which ones I dont' know. His car was RR'ed at 400+ brake :) and still used as his road car :D

[fpv_gtho]

some of those jap cars come with bulletproof drivelines though...so if it was still the standard unit it wouldnt be much of a surprise :p

the local outfit that makes the transmissions for the V8 Supercars supplies all the boy racers in Japan with their 900kw Skylines though...i'd be interested to see whats out there like that for the Z's

[nota]

So i might need some tips here:)

Hows this get to stage brake 1st go manual shifting. get the revs to about 3500rpm launch it in the meat of the torqe zone:D Will that work??
I doubt your (stock?) converter will allow a 3,500rpm stall. Hope your launch doesn't include a neutral-drop - boom :eek: :( - nor overheat your converter before blastoff

btw for max 1/4 mile times, Multiple 'Mr Holden' drags winna Dyno Dave Bennett of Perfectune fame used to upshift his 327 Monaro at literally only 4000rpm, not max it through the gears - there is good reason for this

[SlickHolden]

It would kill my 2nd gear speed but if it went under 4500rpm:(.
Another thngs i was thinking is i might go red if i gave it some foot on the start it might jump forward and red light me:(
But no i would never rev it in N and stick it in D that's for F-heads like my sisters ex:p


My diff is hypoid differential. Ratio 3.08:1
Gears.....
First: 3.06 Second: 1.63 Third: 1.00 Fourth: 0.70

[nota]

I was lucky enough to witness a F-wit do a neutral drop to a brand new XF EFI rentacar .. :D enormous clunk then silence, it only lurched about 4 feet forward. Next day he had to drive it 10km in reverse gear back to Avis depot then pretend all was well :rolleyes:

At what revs does your VP develop max torque & HP?

[fpv_gtho]

127kw@4800rpm
293nm@3600rpm

[SlickHolden]

My nephew droped it into drive with 1800rpm and i turned to him and said it's your car but do that again and it will cost you more then a new tranny or diff;)

So max torque is 3600rpm. So i wonder why when in auto it drops well off after 1st jumps into second @ 4400-4500rpm it goes flat detuned like, Then revs up hard after maybe 2 seconds. But when i hold it in 1st, Change @ 4800-4900rpm it jumps into 2nd and keeps going no flatness there. Maybe it might drop below it's torque in Auto change and me holding 1st longer keeps it closer to the max torque?

[fpv_gtho]

couldnt say for sure without seeing a torque/power graph, but being an auto its posible the torque converter is playing tricks on you going in and out of full lockup mode.

[SlickHolden]

Today i got some extra run into 2nd off start. Might be the injectors also getting better all round i hope:).
I was getting this slight banging ish sound maybe left rear, Thought the diff might be going till today i herd it and it is the bloody Cat rattling under again and it must be knocking down all the way on hard left turns so it sounds like something up the back when it's under the passanger seat.