Car and Drivers article on C6 Z06

[early93viper]

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/showthread.php?t=1172165&forum_id=100

[ScionDriver]

$70,000 doesn't seem like a reasonable price to me.

[SIMPLETON]

Thanks for posting. I was wondering who'd be first to get an article out. How is $65.8 thousand not reasonable?

[adamfraser]

Lovely Car. I was lucky enough to see it at Limerock Park at the Corvette Coral. I got a few pics of it, and i have to say, it is alot nicer when you see it in person.

AF

[taz_rocks_miami]

$70,000 doesn't seem like a reasonable price to me.

For it's level of performance, I'd call it a bargain. :)

[TheOne]

i'd call it a bargain too, i mean it can do both twisties and straight, and it can beat some other supercars that are priced higher, and still get good mpg.

[Matra et Alpine]

i'd call it a bargain too, i mean it can do both twisties and straight, and it can beat some other supercars that are priced higher, and still get good mpg.
read the comment on the point where it "got squirrelly" ?
Having watched the car at Le Mans and in the GT Championship in Europe there is still a huge nasty side to it's hadnling. Seldom does TV coverage let you see it but the race car gets into a nasty rear-end-bounce oscillation which limits it's cornering dramatically. If they could address that it would be as good as the numbers in the tests suggest :(
And Spa isnt' a very tight circuit :)

[johnnyperl]

its sad that theyre impressed with 505hp out of 7 liters and 7000rpm.

Matra, that may be so but do you think its reallistic to compare the street and road versions of this car? the chassis in the rear is completely different aswell as the suspension (coil-overs on the R and leaf springs on the street).

[Matra et Alpine]

Matra, that may be so but do you think its reallistic to compare the street and road versions of this car? the chassis in the rear is completely different aswell as the suspension (coil-overs on the R and leaf springs on the street).
So far I've never seen a race version of a car that handled WORSE than the road :)
I thought the GT Championship cars were running 'standard' suspension. Wasn't sure about the Le Mans cars, I'll check and see if any of the ACO info gives insight.

[FikseGTS]

that is impressive for a stock production car under warranty..... for a reasonable price..... sure you can get 505HP out of a 2 liter 4 banger, but for how long? and who will warranty and support it??





its sad that theyre impressed with 505hp out of 7 liters and 7000rpm.

Matra, that may be so but do you think its reallistic to compare the street and road versions of this car? the chassis in the rear is completely different aswell as the suspension (coil-overs on the R and leaf springs on the street).

[NuclearCrap]

This is insane, Porsche can almost match this car with only 350hp, and I think the Turbo is gonna be announced very soon............

[Niko_Fx]

Badass car, very decent price if you ask me.

[CdocZ]

Why can't we just accept that it's a good car? Damn, seriously, I mean......sure it's not the best, but so what? Many cars aren't the best, but for what you can do in America with a C6 Z06 for the price, compared to other cars......it's quiiiite a deal! Ok, sure, a Porsche can also beat just about anything else in it's horsepower-range. Give the car a break, at least until it comes out, and perhaps is showed up as mostly hype or something. Until then, please....try not to bash a car that isn't even out yet. Because, seriously, what happens if it annihalates the competition or something? A) You might come out looking stupid, and B) you are just developing prejudice against it and it might have been a car you truly would have loved.

So, before developing an actual opinion on the car......please, wait till it comes out at least. It just seems very pointless and stupid to me, as it is kind of like making an opinion about someone from rumors you heard, before you met them.

[johnnynumfiv]

My drivers ed teacher has a C5 Z06 405 hp(stock except nitto tires and upgraded brakes), he beats 360's, most porsches, and bmw's around Lime Rock. I can't believe what he'll be able to do with this new one (he is supposed to be getting one). I can't wait to see it.

[FikseGTS]

oh really, the only competiton Porsche can provide right now is the Carerra GT, and how much does that cost?? please!



This is insane, Porsche can almost match this car with only 350hp, and I think the Turbo is gonna be announced very soon............

[early93viper]

This C6 Z06's performance is on par with every new Ferrari that you can buy today. And it costs less than 70k. That is AMAZING. :eek: If you can't see how that is amazing you probably need to check your pulse.

[Matra et Alpine]

Why can't we just accept that it's a good car? Damn, seriously, I mean......sure it's not the best, but so what?
I think CdocZ the core of the 'debate' is that some think it IS the best and try to justify without ensureing comparisons are equal and valid :)

eg see earlyviper's comments immediately above !!!!!


Many cars aren't the best, but for what you can do in America with a C6 Z06 for the price, compared to other cars......it's quiiiite a deal!
and that's probably true, BUT when you take it OUT of America and your pricing/discount expectations it's NOT. And hence all-encompassing support for it will raise points from ohter countries where it is actually a very bad choice in comparison with what's available there, expectations and price.

So, before developing an actual opinion on the car......please, wait till it comes out at least. It just seems very pointless and stupid to me, as it is kind of like making an opinion about someone from rumors you heard, before you met them.
True, BUT for example my comments on handling and how it handles mid corner bumps and the driver input expected -- hard to see how the road car will be better than the race car versions :)
And you're spot on on opinion. Till you've sat in a 360 and a full race 360 the recognition of how much is the same and then seen the C6-R and seen how DIFFERENT it is to the road car then 'opinion' on the road cars is as bad to extrapolate comparisons :)
But hell, it's still fun to do :D

[spi-ti-tout]

that is impressive for a stock production car under warranty..... for a reasonable price..... sure you can get 505HP out of a 2 liter 4 banger, but for how long? and who will warranty and support it??
Mitsubishi UK gives a full 3 years warranty on the MR FQ-400 and supported by RalliArt and Mitsubishi Technicals UK and Japan.

[early93viper]

I think CdocZ the core of the 'debate' is that some think it IS the best and try to justify without ensureing comparisons are equal and valid :)

eg see earlyviper's comments immediately above !!!!!


and that's probably true, BUT when you take it OUT of America and your pricing/discount expectations it's NOT. And hence all-encompassing support for it will raise points from ohter countries where it is actually a very bad choice in comparison with what's available there, expectations and price.

True, BUT for example my comments on handling and how it handles mid corner bumps and the driver input expected -- hard to see how the road car will be better than the race car versions :)
And you're spot on on opinion. Till you've sat in a 360 and a full race 360 the recognition of how much is the same and then seen the C6-R and seen how DIFFERENT it is to the road car then 'opinion' on the road cars is as bad to extrapolate comparisons :)
But hell, it's still fun to do :D

Please tell me where I said the C6 Z06 is the best car? :confused:

Although there are a lot of cars I would rather have than a C6 Z06. It's performance is nothing short of amazing. But I would never call it the best. It is definatly the best performing new car for that price (in US :p ). I am sure it will be close to that in Europe as well. American performance cars would cost a lot less money (in europe) if they where more excepted (I.E. sold more) in europe. Maybe you guys should be a little more open minded.

Here is something that should open your mind:

The new Z06 ran a 7:42 around the nurburgring. To give you an idea of how fast this is the Ferrari 360 does it in 8:09, the half a million Carrera GT does it in 7:40, and the Pagani Zonda S runs a 7:44.

[Matra et Alpine]

Please tell me where I said the C6 Z06 is the best car? :confused:
If you put something into the 'best' category that counts too you know.
It's not only claiming 'best ever, no car better' that is invalidated by fandom :)

Although there are a lot of cars I would rather have than a C6 Z06. It's performance is nothing short of amazing. But I would never call it the best. It is definatly the best performing new car for that price (in US :p ). I am sure it will be close to that in Europe as well. American performance cars would cost a lot less money (in europe) if they where more excepted (I.E. sold more) in europe. Maybe you guys should be a little more open minded.
Maybe you should learn about European cars, roads and driving styles :)
We ARE open minded. but in general aren't blinded by nationalism and favouritism. eg it doesn't bother most folks that TVR is now 'Russian' or Bentley is German etc etc ( well except for MG and Chinese :) )
You have added the in US so at least you recognise the price differential.
BUT to think that's just volume driven is strange - have you compared prices for European cars IN Europe ? Yep, we pay more than you guys.

Here is something that should open your mind:
The new Z06 ran a 7:42 around the nurburgring. To give you an idea of how fast this is the Ferrari 360 does it in 8:09, the half a million Carrera GT does it in 7:40, and the Pagani Zonda S runs a 7:44.
old news and known and plauded at the time.
BUT what isn't' clear on it was the setup, the tyres, the suspension, the number of laps done and the 'factory support'. These dont' detract from the times, BUT should be remembered when comparing what may be street-car times versus 'specials'. Will the production versions deliver the same ? THAT is the still unanswered question. I hope it does as it ups the ante for Nordschelife. BUT recognise that there are LONG straights and a few high speed sweeping corners which heavily benefit the faster car over the better handling one. Take it on other tracks and you do know it's nowhere NEAR the records of the other cars you listed. ( Well not the Z06 yet, but the difference from models of the 'vette over the years don't track well against the more nimble alternatives

PS: You do know the Donkervoort did it in 7:32 ? Not bad for a Dutch POS that costs less ? Can buy it now, drive it to the track and go :) { well in THAT case with a setup refined by the factory and race tyres !! )

[SIMPLETON]

BUT what isn't' clear on it was the setup, the tyres, the suspension, the number of laps done and the 'factory support'.
The team from GM tested all day for different setups and tires. The setup that the 7'42 was made with will be the one used in production model.

[Matra et Alpine]

The team from GM tested all day for different setups and tires. The setup that the 7'42 was made with will be the one used in production model.
I remember when the first Veyrons were being talked about.
THe final production isnt' the same.
Manufacturers have always played the games. Was there any sound deadening pads on the fibreglass panels ? Were the suspension bushes soft elastomer for normal road comfort ? Did the engine meet emission regs ? Did the brake pads/disks last more than 1000 miles ? Was the suspension damping rock hard ??
All make cars faster for test days.
The best known on this was the Jaguar E-type. Which as well as ll of the above, Jaguar even supplied some cars to jounralists with special fuel - all to make sure it did the magical 150mph. WHen YOU got one it struggled to do 130 :)

[early93viper]

I remember when the first Veyrons were being talked about.
THe final production isnt' the same.
Manufacturers have always played the games. Was there any sound deadening pads on the fibreglass panels ? Were the suspension bushes soft elastomer for normal road comfort ? Did the engine meet emission regs ? Did the brake pads/disks last more than 1000 miles ? Was the suspension damping rock hard ??
All make cars faster for test days.
The best known on this was the Jaguar E-type. Which as well as ll of the above, Jaguar even supplied some cars to jounralists with special fuel - all to make sure it did the magical 150mph. WHen YOU got one it struggled to do 130 :)

I heard it was a Z06 body on a Ferrari Enzo.



























LOL

[aNOBLEman]

read the comment on the point where it "got squirrelly" ?
Having watched the car at Le Mans and in the GT Championship in Europe there is still a huge nasty side to it's hadnling. Seldom does TV coverage let you see it but the race car gets into a nasty rear-end-bounce oscillation which limits it's cornering dramatically. If they could address that it would be as good as the numbers in the tests suggest :(
And Spa isnt' a very tight circuit :)

Obviously this oscillation hasn't effected the Vettes in ALMS. :) I can't wait to start seeing these driving around. They are a real bargain for the very good performance you get.

[Matra et Alpine]

Obviously this oscillation hasn't effected the Vettes in ALMS. :)
repeat -- inthe land of the blind the one eyed man is king :D

I can't wait to start seeing these driving around. They are a real bargain for the very good performance you get.
It's the sound :)
Not sure about 'bargain' as the race cars are heavily supported by the factory ( though still nto sure about the privateer 'support' ).
It's pretty much a prototype !! Has anyone seen a race car up for sale ? Would be interesting to see what they get valued at ... even a couple of seasons old chassis ?

[fpv_gtho]

old news and known and plauded at the time.
BUT what isn't' clear on it was the setup, the tyres, the suspension, the number of laps done and the 'factory support'. These dont' detract from the times, BUT should be remembered when comparing what may be street-car times versus 'specials'. Will the production versions deliver the same ? THAT is the still unanswered question. I hope it does as it ups the ante for Nordschelife. BUT recognise that there are LONG straights and a few high speed sweeping corners which heavily benefit the faster car over the better handling one. Take it on other tracks and you do know it's nowhere NEAR the records of the other cars you listed. ( Well not the Z06 yet, but the difference from models of the 'vette over the years don't track well against the more nimble alternatives

PS: You do know the Donkervoort did it in 7:32 ? Not bad for a Dutch POS that costs less ? Can buy it now, drive it to the track and go :) { well in THAT case with a setup refined by the factory and race tyres !! )

You wont be happy until one gets to Knockhill and gets murdered at the hairpin will you :D

[Matra et Alpine]

You wont be happy until one gets to Knockhill and gets murdered at the hairpin will you :D
Watched the Saleens' do it for years. Even remember the GALAXIES ( but that was at Ingliston :) )
The Viper got overtaken at the hairpin in the British GT championship as it struggled. But still went on to win the day.
Swamped everyone up the hill !!

[fpv_gtho]

Sounds like the Galaxies vs Minis at Bathurst in the early 60's :p

[Matra et Alpine]

Sounds like the Galaxies vs Minis at Bathurst in the early 60's :p
:drool: I'd love to see some vid from then.
I remember seeing some films when I was a kid and they were brilliant racing.
Looking back now I don't know how the Minis didnt' blow up on conrod straight and HOW much faster they msut have been on the corners to make up for a 40++mph difference along its length

[fpv_gtho]

judging by how the V8's have to take everything from Skyline to Forests Elbow, i dare say the Galaxies were simply physically too large to take the track at anything much faster than 50km/h, whilst the Minis would possibly be able to take a simple straight line through the esses and dipper, provided the driver had the balls to keep it up for 500 miles

[Viper007]

I just got the road and track today and they say they got a 0-60 of 4.2s..... wtf is the 0-60? Last time they estimated the regular vettes 0-60 at 4s a lot of magazines got 4.5s.

[nota]

:drool: I'd love to see some vid from then.
I remember seeing some films when I was a kid and they were brilliant racing.
Looking back now I don't know how the Minis didnt' blow up on conrod straight and HOW much faster they msut have been on the corners to make up for a 40++mph difference along its length
Next time you're in the area drop by for a beer, I have original video of Phillip Island & Bathurst 500s from 1960~1974 (racing on razorblades) :)

judging by how the V8's have to take everything from Skyline to Forests Elbow, i dare say the Galaxies were simply physically too large to take the track at anything much faster than 50km/h, whilst the Minis would possibly be able to take a simple straight line through the esses and dipper, provided the driver had the balls to keep it up for 500 miles
Of Galaxies campaigned in Australia, the most prominent was 427 of Sir Gwain Bailie (spl?) who IIRC famously punched Right :eek: Through the multi-layer armco at the end of Sandown's long main straight, reputedly the only car to achieve total penetration!

But Galaxies never competed in any Bathurst 500 as they were modified Apendix J class. Despite poor brakes, Mini's Bathurst win (one year, 1966) was delivered muchly via long-range from twin tanks, as previous winner (twin-tank Cortina GT-500) had been refused entry in '66 "not in spirit of event". For trivia, a scrupulously prepared but stock Cortina GT (not GT-500) recorded 124mph down Conrod in 1964 - yes, it was only 1500cc OHV single carb! Ironically, the Mini win was delivered by Holden (driver Bob Holden) :p
http://carsguide.news.com.au/news/story_page/0,8269,16384094%255E21822,00.html

In early years of Bathurst it was much better because there were some 'unusual' racecars to be seen screeching around: can you believe Humber Vogues & Super Snipe auto, Citroen ID19, Renault 16TS, Standard Vanguard etc. Btw a 100% stock 875cc IMP (base model, not the GT) recorded a mighty 107mph. :cool: and humble Hillman Gazelle outpaced the fancied Datsun 1600s (510). Local legend Warren Weldon in the Victoria Police-entered Studebaker was always fastest & led early, but usually lost brakes after approx lap 20 :D (only 110 to go!) or ripped out a wheel centre. Btw Studebaker sedans had competitive speed right through to 1968

Edit: found a rather good AU page of Galaxie racing :)
http://www.galaxie.com.au/racing.html

[Matra et Alpine]

thanks nota. yeah the Imp was a screamer - often faster than the Minis but not quite as good handling.
hmm, can you copy that tape ? I'll pay postage :)

[aNOBLEman]

It's the sound
Not sure about 'bargain' as the race cars are heavily supported by the factory ( though still nto sure about the privateer 'support' ).
It's pretty much a prototype !! Has anyone seen a race car up for sale ? Would be interesting to see what they get valued at ... even a couple of seasons old chassis ?

As far as I know there is the one privateer team in AMLS with the C5-R and they are still quite competitive. I don't know how much they are valued at though and I don't know if the privateer team gets factory support or not.

[Egg Nog]

its sad that theyre impressed with 505hp out of 7 liters and 7000rpm.

Doesn't matter, the fuel economy is above and beyond anything else with this kind of power and torque. That's actually an important engineering statistic, wheras power per litre is realistically irrelevent when there's no limit on displacement.

[johnnyperl]

Doesn't matter, the fuel economy is above and beyond anything else with this kind of power and torque.
the milage is a good point. BUT alot of that comes from gearing (sixth is 0.50!) and some from aero. thats why the city rating is only 16mpg.
so considering its a 3147lb 7litre V8 its not bad.
it just comes down to personal choice, some people obviouls like these cars from the posts above. i like smaller higer reving engines in small cars (like your logo :D ) so im biased against the 'vette.

...power per litre is realistically irrelevent when there's no limit on displacement.
can you further explain what you mean here?
why isnt it?

[Smokescreen]

I got this from Motor Trend Today:

0-60: 3.5
1/4mile: 11.5
MPG: 19/28

That's better than what Chevy had put out :D.

I really don't see why size matters, It does get awesome fuel economy, and makes 505 horsepower. I'm gonna guess that's the best for ANY car over 500 HP. I don't see in this article how the car's handling is really put down, it just said they pushed it too hard and they lost control. Weird. Motor Trend describes the Z06's handling as "smooth and predictable on the race track."

This Car = Monster. The fastest? No. But most likely the best performance value of our time, and come packed with more additude than I think the world can handle :p I like the cover of MT "FIRST TEST: NEW CORVETTE Z06-Sell the Ferrari!"

BTW, has anyone heard how much this will cost outside the US in USD? Moter Trend said "a good chunk" will be headed to Europe.

[092326001]

it is an awesome car for the price
and nether Lamborghini, Porsche, or Ferrari offers a car that fast that find of money

[Smokescreen]

it is an awesome car for the price
and nether Lamborghini, Porsche, or Ferrari offers a car that fast that find of money

no one, for that matter :D

I just though I would ad that MT says that above 60 MPH, you have to yell to the guy in the passenger seat...........:D

[The_Canuck]

I still don't like it probably cause ive never liked vettes. i'd still rather have an NSX. the vette that clocked the 7:42 time was a tuned prototype i heard.

[SIMPLETON]

Europeans just dont understand what Corvettes are about. And when you explain it to them they're usually too ignorant to care. Just because its American doesnt mean its crap.

the vette that clocked the 7:42 time was a tuned prototype i heard.
How many times have people explained, it was a car testing for setups on which ALL new Z06s will be using.

[Matra et Alpine]

Europeans just dont understand what Corvettes are about. And when you explain it to them they're usually too ignorant to care. Just because its American doesnt mean its crap.
That's extrememly myopic.
Most of us FULLY 100% understand Corvettes.
I woudl suggest that SOME Corvette fans dont' understand Eureopean roads or driving styles and preferences.
It's been explained often. You guys have lots of big wide, long straight-ish freeways. Eurepean cities are smaller roads, smaller junctions. Motorways are faster, less straight, drivers prefer to go on the twistier fun interesting roads.
THAT is why it gets labelled as inferior against cars American woudl consider it superior to.
That's been explaiend multiple times.

How many times have people explained, it was a car testing for setups on which ALL new Z06s will be using.
and that measn what ?
It doesn't mean the setup used is the one that will appear in the car.
Again at the time we went over some of the things that are liekly to be different from the setup then and a final one for the car sales.
The example of the E-type is pretty much the most widely reported example. The car you bought didnt' do 150 but all the productino samples and press cars did - because they were different :)

[taz_rocks_miami]

That's extrememly myopic.
Most of us FULLY 100% understand Corvettes.
I woudl suggest that SOME Corvette fans dont' understand Eureopean roads or driving styles and preferences.
It's been explained often. You guys have lots of big wide, long straight-ish freeways. Eurepean cities are smaller roads, smaller junctions. Motorways are faster, less straight, drivers prefer to go on the twistier fun interesting roads.
THAT is why it gets labelled as inferior against cars American woudl consider it superior to.

The Corvette is one of the best handling cars on the road. But you're right Matra in the sence that it's suspention isn't properly tuned to European roads. If it was, you guys might have a different oppinion of it. :)

[2ndclasscitizen]

Suspension tuning is a reason why many cars fail to be as good when exported out of their original country. The DB9 suspension is known to be too stiff for australia and the Sport Clio Cup can actually bump oversteer in australia

[Matra et Alpine]

it's suspention isn't properly tuned to European roads. If it was, you guys might have a different oppinion of it. :)
well of course.
But that's why we've got things like TVRs :)
Even still the size and very large tyres won't be radically altered which makes driving less perfect over here.
Of course, you know I'll add the balance that if you got a chance to drive some of the best handling little cars in Europe you'd understand why for us the Vette ends up lower in class and away from "best handling" group :)

as 2nd says not all can be made to fit. I'd hate to drive a 7-copy anywhere outside of the cities :) If only just for the thought of a kangaroo coming over the top and killing you in an accident :D

[sunk]

The Corvette is one of the best handling cars on the road. But you're right Matra in the sence that it's suspention isn't properly tuned to European roads. If it was, you guys might have a different oppinion of it. :)
Yes the 'vette is good handing but it isn't communicative, for that matter most people will prefer 911s and F430s to it.
But an awesome car.
Almost in the supercar class.

[SIMPLETON]

Just get rid of the run-flats and put real tires on it

[The_Canuck]

actually ive been looking at this car more and more and its really growing on me im really starting to like it not as much as an NSX or anything but still i like it more now then i did before

[Viper007]

How come no one ever tests or has tested the Saleen S7 Twin Turbo?

[RS6]

How come no one ever tests or has tested the Saleen S7 Twin Turbo?

Maybe because Saleen has not let anybody test it yet.

[rev440]

Car and Drivers test drivers suck they had the gt running a 12 flat in the 1/4. Hell i could run a 12 flat in the 1/4 in a 550 horse car. I personally think moter trend owns all. I think im gonna be getting road and track again because can and driver drives cars like SHIT.

[Matra et Alpine]

Car and Drivers test drivers suck they had the gt running a 12 flat in the 1/4. Hell i could run a 12 flat in the 1/4 in a 550 horse car. I personally think moter trend owns all. I think im gonna be getting road and track again because can and driver drives cars like SHIT.
The perfect example of why a magazine is always tempted to be able to post the 'best' time or speed :(
Watch out for all the caveats. Who ACTUALLY does it from a standing start on level ground. Who does it with street tyre pressures. Fuelled and setup as delivered ? How do they measure. How do they average etc etc
Do a comparison on numbers posted in the mag with personal experience and/or average from other sources. If it stands out from the others, turn on the suspicion-meter and look a little deeper :)

[rev440]

Yeah my neighbor owns one and theres no way that ol Z06 can beat it to 60. A supercharger provides instant boost from 0 rpm. Giving the gt a clear lead in that category. My neigbor will laugh his ass off when he sees this. I want to see the amount of air they had in the tire the altitude how the track was prepped and other variables. Cuz i sure as hell am dissapointed with car and driver i think they must have 8 year olds driving there cars now adays. What a dissapointment!

[aNOBLEman]

How come no one ever tests or has tested the Saleen S7 Twin Turbo?
Road & Track had it in their standing mile test and it got second with a speed of something like 205.7 mph.

[zeta]

Reading through the old post and had to comment.


Top Gear Power Laps[U]

1st Maserati MC12 - 1.18.9

2nd Ferrari F60 Enzo - 1.19.0

3rd Ariel Atom - 1.19.5

4th Porsche Carerra GT - 1.19.8

5th Mercedes McLaren SLR - 1.20.9

Ford GT - 1.21.9

Ferrari 360 CS - 1.22.3

Porsche GT3 RS - 1.22.3

Murcielago - 1.23.7

Zonda - 1.23.8

Koenigsegg - 1.23.9

Noble - 1.25.0

Gallardo - 1.25.8

Lotus Exige - 1.26.4

**Chevrolet Corvette - 1.26.8

Mercedes CLS 55 AMG - 1.26.9

Porsche 911 GT3 - 1.27.2

TVR 350C - 1.27.5

BMW M3 CSL - 1.28.0

Dodge Viper SRT-10 - 1.28.5

MG SV - 1.28.6

Porsche 911 Carrera S - 1.28.9 (very wet)

Mitsubishi Evo VIII - 1.28.9

BMW Alpine Z8 - 1.29.0

Mercedes CL65 - 1.29

Alfa 3.7 GTA - 1.30.0

Subaru Impreza STI - 1.30.1

Aston Martin DB7 GT - 1.30.4

Vauxhall Monaro VXR - 1.30.16

Audi S4 - 1.30.9

Porsche 911 turbo - 1.31.0

The over exageration of Americans not knowing what handling is,And that american freeways are air plane runwaysis (other then intersats), is BS. Americans do drive BMW's, Ferrari's and Porsches,matter of fact biggest market. So Americans would have an idea of what good handling is.

The Base vette out did all 911's and base 360's around the top gear track. AS well as the TVR. And the C6-R out endured the DB-R's in Euro Lemans.

[Matra et Alpine]

The over exageration of Americans not knowing what handling is,And that american freeways are air plane runwaysis (other then intersats), is BS. Americans do drive BMW's, Ferrari's and Porsches,matter of fact biggest market. So Americans would have an idea of what good handling is.

The Base vette out did all 911's and base 360's around the top gear track. AS well as the TVR. And the C6-R out endured the DB-R's in Euro Lemans.
Not to take a gerat time away from the 'vette but you DO have to read it IN CONTEXT. Especially some of the times were on damp an WET tracks, cold days v warm.
The TG track is good leveller but doesnt' fully check out handling as there are NO undulations and the only real handling challenge is in the Hammerhead. Gambon is all about drifting the corner before :)
http://www.bbc.co.uk/topgear/images/powerlaps/top_gear_track.gif
Your coment on who buys what is skewed in that folsk who make lots of comments about them have seldom been within 100feet of them never mind driven or been in on roads or track.
Read the facts abotu Le Mans. The Aston had the vette owned until the problems and NEITHER team were letting their cars go as fast as they coudl because of the stupid threatened penalties in ALMS :( Through the Dunlop bridge the 'vettes were one of the slowest - including the class below 911s - and were showing some frightening yawing at the limit :( BUT the torque restored that disadvantage on the straights.
no car is perfect at everything. The 'vette will win out where it's torque and less gear changings will give advantage.

Good time though and well deserved place.

[zeta]

So there, not emaculate on all sides but, its formula is good enough to be competive and worthy of some world status. Coherent enough?

[Matra et Alpine]

So there, not emaculate on all sides but, its formula is good enough to be competive and worthy of some world status. Coherent enough?
spot on.

Each will win some, each will lose some :D

[rev440]

Car and drivers time for the Ford GT 12 flat in the 1/4. Moter trends 11.3 hmm im trusting motortend. I think car and driver must of had a monkey driving the car that missed every gear...

[Matra et Alpine]

or as I've said before MT were takign the fastest rather than any average and hence weren't takign measurement errors into account :) THAT way they sell more mags with the better time and folks think others are not as 'good'. Good and quality aren't always the same in the world of journalism :(

[rev440]

But hell a 550 horse car should be able to run a a 11.5 easy

[Godlaus]

Road & Track had it in their standing mile test and it got second with a speed of something like 205.7 mph.

With a 0-60 of 3.3, a 0-100 of 6.3, and a quarter of 10.8.

Was 1st in production cars time that were tested and 2nd in trap speed.