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Doza
02-10-2004, 06:21 PM
Attached is a diagram of my trunkspace, and here is a description and my problem. I have 2 Rockford 8"s and 2/1* Kicker Impulse 12"s that I only have room for in the trunk. Right now, they're in truck boxes, and I intend to Build a box(es) to house the speakers so they can face the front. What should I do, and what shape/how big/what orientation should the box(es) be?

*the amp that runs the 12"s had a resistor fall out and I haven't got around to saudering it back in, so it's one channel now, and I can't even bridge it to get the full power :(

Matra et Alpine
02-10-2004, 07:30 PM
Attached is a diagram of my trunkspace, and here is a description and my problem. I have 2 Rockford 8"s and 2/1* Kicker Impulse 12"s that I only have room for in the trunk. Right now, they're in truck boxes, and I intend to Build a box(es) to house the speakers so they can face the front. What should I do, and what shape/how big/what orientation should the box(es) be?

*the amp that runs the 12"s had a resistor fall out and I haven't got around to saudering it back in, so it's one channel now, and I can't even bridge it to get the full power :(
Chamber design is a complex subject and I was going to suggest you search on "speaker horn design" for some of the basics on building a loaded horn cabinet. This will produce astounding bass colume AND clarity from a small volume and can be accomodated in unusual spaces. The problem is it's not easy :)
Anyway, I did the search myself and found that someone has done all the maths in an applet. You might want to try to use it to get you the optimum design for the speakers and space available. http://www.ishtek.com/spkrs.htm it also has a 'basics' intro page.
I've seen lots of folks stuff speakers in anywhere and then use smart electronics to make it sound reasonable. I prefer getting the design as near correct as possible and then ONLY using electronics when and if necessary. ( I used to do semi-pro live and studio recordings so I prefer 'real' sounds )
Hope it helps.
Of course, the easier approach is to go along ot the next sound-off and see what someone else has done and if you like the sound/look copy it :)

Doza
02-10-2004, 07:43 PM
Chamber design is a complex subject and I was going to suggest you search on "speaker horn design" for some of the basics on building a loaded horn cabinet. This will produce astounding bass colume AND clarity from a small volume and can be accomodated in unusual spaces. The problem is it's not easy :)
Anyway, I did the search myself and found that someone has done all the maths in an applet. You might want to try to use it to get you the optimum design for the speakers and space available. http://www.ishtek.com/spkrs.htm it also has a 'basics' intro page.
I've seen lots of folks stuff speakers in anywhere and then use smart electronics to make it sound reasonable. I prefer getting the design as near correct as possible and then ONLY using electronics when and if necessary. ( I used to do semi-pro live and studio recordings so I prefer 'real' sounds )
Hope it helps.
Of course, the easier approach is to go along ot the next sound-off and see what someone else has done and if you like the sound/look copy it :)
Thanks... I don't have much extra money to make it much better now, but plenty of wood laying around.

Egg Nog
02-10-2004, 08:19 PM
I remember that one of the BC MR2 club guys had what he called a "sub-bucket" :) Sure enough, it was a 25 litre former Ice Cream pail with a 12" (to the best of my memory) subwoofer mounted in it. It sounded pretty good, too :)

In any case, if you're pretty good with wood, I'd go for building a custom housing for the speakers. That's definately what I would do :)

Doza
02-12-2004, 06:31 PM
I remember that one of the BC MR2 club guys had what he called a "sub-bucket" :) Sure enough, it was a 25 litre former Ice Cream pail with a 12" (to the best of my memory) subwoofer mounted in it. It sounded pretty good, too :)

In any case, if you're pretty good with wood, I'd go for building a custom housing for the speakers. That's definately what I would do :)

I'm good with my hands... but all the things on the webpage Matra gave me are pretty complex... I may need an interpreter.

crisis
02-15-2004, 05:39 PM
More is not always better. You need to find out the specs of your speaker and use the program Matra is talking about. If you want loud bass which seems obvious, try facing the speaker into the trunk area. Make sure the sound can bleed back into the cabin ie leave out rear speakers from parcel shelf or make sure their are openings to let sound back in . Loading in this way can increase the volume by 3db which is around the minimum audible. It is also the sam increase you would get from going from a 10" to a 12" driver or approximately doubling the amplifier output. Much cheaper eh?If you run all of these speakers make sure the impedence matches your amps. ie 3x 4ohm speakers in parallel will be 1ohm and will probably blow the power supply. Three 4phm speakers in series will be 12 ohm which means they will require a lot of power to drive loud. There are goo site on the net about speaker design although I would question horn loaded cabinets for car installs because of their complexity and size. No offence MAtra.

crisis
02-15-2004, 05:41 PM
We have been on this subject here as well.
http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1833&page=2

Matra et Alpine
02-15-2004, 06:53 PM
I would question horn loaded cabinets for car installs because of their complexity and size. No offence MAtra.
If you want to maximise bass then horn-loading is the way to do it.
But we're probably only looking at 3-6dB over a ported box.
Taking crisis' inputs the other way around, it may be easier to double the power of the amp and speakers than optimising a horn.
If you can think in 3D, then horns are actually quite easy.
I was 15 when I was introduced to a special horn-loaded Tannoy enclosure made out of concrete. It was amazing how much extra bass for the same input power.
A modern interpretation to hear what can be done are the little Bose radi/cd units. These have 3" drivers and a horn winding it's way around the case and it is astounding the amount of bass produced.
But, I accept that you're maths needs to be spot on to play with horn designs I just hoped that the java applet the guy had written might have made it easier.
Sorry it didn't :(
Why not take crisis' inputs and come up with what you think would work for you and we can gently critique it here for you.
Cheers
Peter

Doza
02-15-2004, 07:29 PM
I've decided to find some way to put the eights inside the cab. That will be a while as i'm afraid to tear my car apart and not talent with fiberglass.
The eights hit very exceptionally and they're only on 50 watts each. I'm not out to win competitions.... I want a clean and reasonably loud sound that hits pretty well, and so far, I'm close to that. What I do is drop my back seat down so the speakers hit out. I'm going to figure out how to put the sixes back on next weekend when I have the time for it.

crisis
02-15-2004, 10:46 PM
If you want to maximise bass then horn-loading is the way to do it.
But we're probably only looking at 3-6dB over a ported box.
Taking crisis' inputs the other way around, it may be easier to double the power of the amp and speakers than optimising a horn.
If you can think in 3D, then horns are actually quite easy.
I was 15 when I was introduced to a special horn-loaded Tannoy enclosure made out of concrete. It was amazing how much extra bass for the same input power.
A modern interpretation to hear what can be done are the little Bose radi/cd units. These have 3" drivers and a horn winding it's way around the case and it is astounding the amount of bass produced.
But, I accept that you're maths needs to be spot on to play with horn designs I just hoped that the java applet the guy had written might have made it easier.
Sorry it didn't :(
Why not take crisis' inputs and come up with what you think would work for you and we can gently critique it here for you.
Cheers
Peter
Horn loading increases efficeincy at all levels as you rightly point out. I still think they would have to be fairly large. If you want a similar effect you could try a transmission line set up but again they are very complicated and if they are not perfect, they do not work.