2005 Japanese GP - Suzuka

[Vaigra]

Drivers championship all wrapped up. Final two races to decide the constructors. Personally I think Mclaren will get it, as they more often have both cars near the top. Renault have Alonso, but Fisichella doesn't always maintain the pace.
So far...Raikkonen has been hit with a 10-spot penalty after another engine failure in the first practice session. De la Rosa (Mclaren) and Zonta (Toyota) have topped the timesheets for the two sessions.
Surprsingly, in the second session, M.Schumacher was second, with Barrichello fourth, ahead of Raikkonen in fifth.

[pimento]

Wow, the official UCP seer! The same thing that happened this year will happen next year, huh? :)

I agree on the constructor's points thing, even with Kimi starting from presumably about 11th, I'd bet that McLaren will walk away with a wider margin between them and Renault. Interesting that Ferrari are so high up, but they were probably running them dry to try and scare the opposition or something.

[Vaigra]

lol 2006? god I'm a year ahead..:p
I hope Ferrari weren't running dry, they weren't too bad two weeks ago in Brazil, with MS staying ahead of Fisi in a slower car. Hoping they'll be in the mix :), should add some excitement.

EDIT: BTW can a mod please modify the thread title please? :o

[Zytek_Fan]

Juan Pablo and Kimi are probably going to get a 1-2

[6'bore]

If I was Kimi, I would be giving Mclaren a good slapping. If it wasn't for them he would be in Alonso's shoes at this moment.

[Dino Scuderia]

Sato gets the most powerful Honda engine ever for this race....he won't be faster...he'll just crash harder.

[Jack_Bauer]

Well, qualifying was a complete washout! :rolleyes:

After an early deluge the rain eased off for the middle of the session, allowing the likes of Ralf and the BARs to set competitive times, and then the heavens opened just as the first of the big hitters (Fisichella) came out. So the major players in the race for the WCC are all over the place on the grid, but Renault definitely have the upper hand with Fisichella up in third. It's about time Fisico got his arse in gear and started proving his worth to the team because he's been pretty abject for the second half of the season.

Great news for the Japanese home supporters though with a Toyota-Honda front row on the grid. And it's been a LONG time since Ralf Schumacher did anything worth noticing in F1. He's been chugging along in the midfield for the past 2 seasons with the only slight moments of interest where he crashes in embarrasing fashion. He won't get a bigger chance to impress than this race, starting from pole in his team's home GP, and I think he needs a big performance. Toyota's day was a bit bitter-sweet though as #1 driver Trulli binned it at Degner 2 and will start from the 2nd to back row of the grid.

The weather factor has been used as one of the biggest arguments against the current qualifying format as it clearly gives such a big advantage to some drivers at the throw of a dice. It doesn't give us a 'true' grid, but I don't think it's all that bad myself. I think it sets the race up brilliantly with most of the faster cars at the back of the grid having to battle their way through to the front. Should make for some great entertainment hopefully. My opinion is that I'd rather have a shambles of a qualifying session giving a nonsense grid followed by a cracking race with plenty of overtaking than see a 'true' grid after qualy and getting a dull, processional race. I quite enjoy the random factor of the weather being thrown in! :p

Qualifying Times

01. Ralf Schumacher Toyota 1:46.106
02. Jenson Button BAR 1:46.141
03. Giancarlo Fisichella Renault 1:46.276
04. Christian Klien Red Bull 1:46.464
05. Takuma Sato BAR 1:46.841
06. David Coulthard Red Bull 1:46.892
07. Mark Webber Williams 1:47.233
08. Jacques Villeneuve Sauber 1:47.440
09. Rubens Barrichello Ferrari 1:48.248
10. Felipe Massa Sauber 1:48.278
11. Narain Karthikeyan Jordan 1:48.718
12. Antonio Pizzonia Williams1:48.898
13. Christijan Albers Minardi 1:50.843
14. Michael Schumacher Ferrari 1:52.676
15. Robert Doornbos Minardi 1:52.894
16. Fernando Alonso Renault 1:54.667
17. Kimi Raikkonen McLaren 2:02.309
18. Tiago Monteiro Jordan No Time
19. Jarno Trulli Toyota No Time
20. Juan Pablo Montoya McLaren No Time

Oh, and the weather forecast for the race:- MORE RAIN!!! Anything could happen in the this race! :D

[pimento]

Juat (couldn't resist that) happened to Juan and Tiago?

[Jack_Bauer]

Tiago spun out at Degner 2, same as Jarno Trulli. Montoya was the last man out and as a result ended up with the worst of the weather. He was gonna be about 15secs of pole time so didn't bother finishing and came in without setting a time to skip parque ferme. :)

[GT2addic]

1st - Kimi Raikonnen
2nd - Giancarlo Fisichella
3rd - Fernando Alonso
4th - Mark Webber
5th - Jenson Button
6th - David Coulthard (YEAH!)
7th - Michael Schumacher
8th - Ralf Schumacher

[Vaigra]

hmm...no lap by lap posting today lol

[Dino Scuderia]

Fantastic drive by Kimi! Ballsy passes by he and Alonso too. This race really showed just how slow the Ferrari's are...Schuey held everybody up.

[Rockefella]

Awesome race, incredible effort from Kimi. China should be insteresting considering the manufacturer's points.

[Vaigra]

here's my full post:
Brilliant race IMO. Some great overtaking by Alonso and Raikkonen. Schumacher being able to defend his position pretty good for a while, hope to see Ferrari competitive next year and see if he's still got it. Fisichella, taking the wrong line in the final chicane on the last two laps, trying to defend against nothing, giving Kimi a run on him down the straight. That should have been Fisi's race if it wasn't for his very amateur mistakes on the last chicane.
Alonso's 180mph overtaking manouvere at 130R...wow! that could have been disasterous. Good drive by Webber too. Sato has to be mentioned obviously...the nutcase! lmao! I think Brundle got it right, there must be steel girders in his front suspension for it not to have broken after his shunt with Rubens and then driving straight into the side of Trulli.
Overall, a good race, easily the best of the year so far. Let's see how China turns out :)

[Rockefella]

Brilliant race IMO.Agreed
Fisichella, taking the wrong line in the final chicane on the last two laps, trying to defend against nothing, giving Kimi a run on him down the straight. That should have been Fisi's race if it wasn't for his very amateur mistakes on the last chicane.Yeah, Fisichella spelled out his own downfall there, but Raikkonen was much quicker, as usual. :)

Alonso's 180mph overtaking manouvere at 130R...wow! that could have been disasterous.One of the best F1 overtaking maneuvres I've ever seen though. That's what racing's supposed to be.
Sato has to be mentioned obviously...the nutcase! lmao! I think Brundle got it right, there must be steel girders in his front suspension for it not to have broken after his shunt with Rubens and then driving straight into the side of Trulli.I think the guy was a Kamikaze in his past life.. The man drives like he's playing Gran Turismo. :p
Overall, a good race, easily the best of the year so far. Let's see how China turns out :)
Agreed! :)

[Vaigra]

Yeah, Fisichella spelled out his own downfall there, but Raikkonen was much quicker, as usual. :)
true, Kimi was much quicker, but Fisichella could have held out for another lap I think.

One of the best F1 overtaking maneuvres I've ever seen though. That's what racing's supposed to be. Agreed, I forgot to mention it was an amazing manouvere, just said it could have been dangerous lol.

I think the guy was a Kamikaze in his past life.. The man drives like he's playing Gran Turismo. :p

lmao, they should make him play Forza more often, just so he realises cars can get damaged :p

I like how ITV compare how two drivers use the throttle and brakes, shows a lot about how each one drives.

[Rockefella]

I like how ITV compare how two drivers use the throttle and brakes, shows a lot about how each one drives.
True, it looked like Kimi had dance-class on his throttle/brake pedals. :)

[RacingManiac]

I think this is probably one of the best race I've ever seen.....and quite amazing that it happened under 2005 F1 rules....

[Dino Scuderia]

Kimi has the lap record now 1:31.540.

Interesting as the Speed announcers pointed out...the Renault keeps it's grip when running close behind another car but conversely the McLarens front end starts washing out when it gets within 30 feet of another car. That must be very frustrating for Kimi, that left his only hope staying close coming out of a corner and using the draft to pass, which is exactly what he did.

[Jack_Bauer]

Kimi has the lap record now 1:31.540.

Interesting as the Speed announcers pointed out...the Renault keeps it's grip when running close behind another car but conversely the McLarens front end starts washing out when it gets within 30 feet of another car. That must be very frustrating for Kimi, that left his only hope staying close coming out of a corner and using the draft to pass, which is exactly what he did.

It was plain for all to see that the McLaren wasn't handling well in 'dirty air' through corners like the Esses and 130R. I'm amazed nobody told Giancarlo Fisichella that. On both the third and second last laps he had Kimi right up his gearbox down the back straight but Kimi had to get right out of the throttle through 130R and was nowhere near close enough to make a pass into the Triangle. Yet both times Fisico went ultra defensive to block any potential pass. If he had just learnt his lesson the first time and not compromised himself through Triangle on the second last lap there's no way Kimi would've been close enough to slipstream past him into turn one. The victory would've been as good as his. Silly boy. :rolleyes:

He needs to take lessons from his team mate in proper defensive driving after the master-class Alonso gave in Imola to take the victory early in the season.

[Jack_Bauer]

Takuma Sato and Jacques Villeneuve have both recieved punishments from the FIA for their rubbishness in Sunday's race. Sato has been excluded from the race result and JV has recieved a 25sec penalty, demoting him from 11th to 12th.


The stewards viewed the video of the incident and presented the same to Takuma Sato and his Team Manager Ron Meadows and independently to Jarno Trulli and his team manager Richard Cregan.

Having heard both parties the stewards independently conclude that Takuma Sato was involved in an incident 'forcing the driver of car number 16 off the track' and therefore reprimand Sato and order that he be excluded from the results.



After the race the stewards viewed the video of the incident and presented the same to Juan Pablo Montoya and his team manager Dave Ryan and independently to Jacques Villeneuve and his team manager Beat Zehnder.

Having heard both parties the stewards independently conclude that Jacques Villeneuve was involved in an incident 'forcing the driver of Car number 10 off track' and therefore impose a 25-second time penalty to the elapsed race time of Jacques Villeneuve.


Essentially the same crime but different punishments. Probably because Sato was coming from behind and can have absolutely no defence whatsoever. At least JV could use the old 'I never saw him coming guv'nor' defence. :p

[Cotterik]

this weekend just showed how much kimi is ahead of the rest of the field he realy is the best driver in the world right now, well i guess him and sebastien loeb would be a good team but Kimi has proved his godly driving skills perfectly. Just think if he hadnt had engine failures all year round he wouldve won the championship by far out. Alonso isnt anywhere near him yet i dont think.

[Dino Scuderia]

Both Kimi and Alonso are near mistake-free drivers...in equal equipment Kimi is at least a second faster IMO.

[Jack_Bauer]

^^^How on earth can you tell??? They've never had equal equipment, and even if they did a whole second is a MASSIVE difference. The first quarter of the season the Renault and McLaren were pretty evenly matched and Alonso was just as fast as Kimi. I do feel sorry for Kimi because of the bad luck he has had with reliability, but people seem to be going over-board with their support of Kimi IMO. He does not walk on water by any means. There have been times when much criticised team mate Montoya has been just as fast, if not faster, than Kimi despite carrying a persistent shoulder injury.

I think Kimi and Alonso are both breathtakingly quick and ultra-commited drivers. They both have a true champion's instinct for throwing caution to the wind when necessary, and they are both true fighters (something I think the other young guns on the grid like Button and Massa lack). My feeling is that if you put them in identical machinery then there would be less than a hair's breadth between them. As to the question of who deserves to be the champion this year I think it's impossible to answer, because they BOTH deserve it. They've been equally quick, equally competitive, equally bold and equally entertaining IMO. Kimi just has had more bad luck.

I really don't like the way some people are begrudging Alonso his WDC. He's won the championship with a car that clearly wasn't the fastest car on the grid, and he's absolutely humiliated his highly rated team mate in the process (the truest gauge of how well a driver performs throughout a season). Yes, Kimi has been unlucky, but there's no denying that Alonso has been absolutely sensational this season. It's not his fault McLaren haven't been able to keep their cars in the running. :)

[Dino Scuderia]

Who knows for sure...but I think Kimi is the quickest in F1 right now, then Alonso, then Juan...excluding MS of course who I think has lost some of his speed but still capable of staying wit these guys. Alonso and Kimi both showed guts..of course if they had crashed the guys they were passing we'd be calling them stupid. Throwing caution to the wind is great but only if you're good enough to pull it off.

I agree, Alonso earned and deserves his C'ship.

[6'bore]

Best race of the year. Period.

Just goes to show that when F1 is at its absolute best. There is no better sport to watch.

[Rockefella]

In equal equipment, Kimi is probably half a tenth quicker than Alonso, with MS and JPM a close tie for third.

[Vaigra]

I don't think JPM and MS would be far behind though, maybe a tenth or so IMO.

[Rockefella]

I don't think JPM and MS would be far behind though, maybe a tenth or so IMO.
Yeah, that's what I had in mind. :)

[Vaigra]

great minds..etc etc lol
Hope to see a brilliant conclusion to the season :)