View Full Version : Why Ruf isn't a Porsche...
F1_Master
10-21-2005, 03:45 PM
My dumbass friend will just not listen. I have explained countless times why a Ruf is not a modified Porsche nor tuner, but that it is an independent company.
So now I'm asking you all, the car know-it-alls ;) , to explain it to him as he's told me if I can get at least 1 or 2 people to agree with me and explain in the same way why Ruf is not a modified Porsche, nor tuner, that he would finally agree.
I know it seems like a stupid subject, but he won't go to the Ruf dealer outside of Dallas (as naturally, they would "agree"), and everyone else either agrees with him or have never heard of them.
So Jason, if you see this, read below to find out why I'm not the only person who knows that Ruf isn't a modified Porsche company.
h00t_h00t
10-21-2005, 03:49 PM
I don't think they build their cars from scratch, infact I'd say that they DO modify Porsches...
I remember the boss of Ruf saying "We use the best cars, and the best cars are Porsches" or something to that effect.
6'bore
10-21-2005, 03:50 PM
It isnt a tuner/modifier for Porsche because...
It has nothing to do with Porsche
They do not take Porsches and tune/modify them.
They are an independant company.
There, maybe your "dumbass" friend will face the fact he is wrong.
h00t_h00t
10-21-2005, 03:51 PM
But they use Porsche designs and modify them for better performance.
F1_Master
10-21-2005, 03:52 PM
They build everything pretty much from scratch excluding the unmarked Porsche chassis.
But why can they not be a manufacturer when Callaway builds the C12 on a Corvette chassis? Or Dauer? Is there some unwritten auto law that states you have to build your own body to be manufacturer excluding the fact you build pretty much everything else yourself?
That's what I always tell him, but he always says Dauer and Callaway are different.
6'bore
10-21-2005, 03:54 PM
They build everything pretty much from scratch excluding the unmarked Porsche chassis.
But why can they not be a manufacturer when Callaway builds the C12 on a Corvette chassis? Or Dauer? Is there some unwritten auto law that states you have to build your own body to be manufacturer excluding the fact you build pretty much everything else yourself?
That's what I always tell him, but he always says Dauer and Callaway are different.
Sounds like your "friend" needs a good kicking.
Egg Nog
10-21-2005, 03:56 PM
What the hell are you guys talking about?
They are a fully independent company, but of course they modifiy Porsches... how could you possibly say they don't? Just because it gets legally registered as an RUF doesn't mean that it's "Not a modified Porsche".
bmwpower
10-21-2005, 03:56 PM
lol maybe he does but idk i still think to most people it's all about the body, you don't see a chassis you see a car so i understand where he's coming from
sleekeywoowoo
10-21-2005, 03:58 PM
To my knowledge, RUF converts stock porsches, and is a Tuner turned car manufacturer, or at least they plan on producing their own car. But as far as i know, they convert Porsches,engine,suspension,platform, interior, exterior, so in other words, RUF is an entirely new car wrapped in a Porsche body. .
You buy a Porsches, take it to them, they take care of it, and BAMN, you get a RUF, a whole new toy.
dont quote me on this.
Ex: A Shelby Cobra is known as a Shelby, not an AC car Cobra. Before Carrol modified the little british car,it used to be just another brit,but it started getting noticed afterwards because of its racing and such. but anyways. All im saying is RUF/Shelby-Porsche/AC
F1_Master
10-21-2005, 04:06 PM
The Ruf dealer workers told me customer Porsches are the ones are tuned, but the ones for sale new are mostly Ruf built parts.
my porsche
10-21-2005, 04:23 PM
all wrong :D
ruf is an independant company, yes, but it is a certified MANUFACTURER, therfore you have a Ruf, not a Ruf Porsche, and it is no longer a porsche once it has been modified by Ruf
Coventrysucks
10-21-2005, 04:29 PM
Ruf build new cars, or they tune cars Porsche owners bring to them.
Same with Brabus, and a lot of the other German tuners - it is a quirk of sorts.
It doesn't matter whether you consider them just tuners; German law sees them as an independant car manufacturer. They are the only ones whose opinion in the matter is important.
magracer
10-21-2005, 04:40 PM
MP is right.
The German TUV (German Transport Department) has catalogued them as a independent manufacturer. That would imply much more than tuning and modifying as it's one of the toughest TD in the world.
Found elsewhere:
"But as far as the German authorities, the U.S. Department of Transportation and the EPA are concerned, he is a manufacturer, empowered to assign vehicle identification numbers to his creations. Ruf VINs begin with the identifier W09, not Porsche's WP0"
In a nut shell, they are allowed to place VINs in cars, so they are manufacturers.
Egg Nog
10-21-2005, 04:49 PM
all wrong :D
ruf is an independant company, yes, but it is a certified MANUFACTURER, therfore you have a Ruf, not a Ruf Porsche, and it is no longer a porsche once it has been modified by Ruf
Exactly, but it is still a modified Porsche, just not registered as one. Nobody can get away with saying that an official RUF car is not a modified Porsche, because it was a Porsche, and then it was modified. That's the definition of "modified Porsche" :D
I'm not disagreeing with you, it's mostly for everyone else.
NuclearCrap
10-21-2005, 04:57 PM
Ok let's stop arguing, I think this pic of the RUF RGT explains it all.
scottie300z
10-21-2005, 05:01 PM
When is a porsche not a porsche?
When its a Ruf:p
Egg Nog
10-21-2005, 05:09 PM
They are an independant company.
Correct.
They do not take Porsches and tune/modify them.
How could you even say this? Of course they take Porsches and tune/modify them. The fact that they are registered as an RUF afterwards doesn't change this fact. They are not registered as Porsches, but they are still modified Porsches.
NuclearCrap
10-21-2005, 05:12 PM
Consider it an independent tuning company, like Kleeman.
Egg Nog
10-21-2005, 05:16 PM
Consider it an independent tuning company, like Kleeman.
I think fully-modified Kleeman cars are still registered as Mercedes vehicles though...
I think the real question here is- does Porche build modified RUFs? :confused:
but does it really matter?
coolieman1220
10-21-2005, 06:35 PM
RUF is totally different because inlike a tuner, you can't just go and say you want this and that buy it and put it on yourself. you have to buy the RUF. porsche probably has an agreement with RUF that allows them to use their car to modify it.
F1_Master
10-21-2005, 06:41 PM
Ok let's stop arguing, I think this pic of the RUF RGT explains it all.
That's not a RGT.
A RGT interior is very different.
RUF is totally different because inlike a tuner, you can't just go and say you want this and that buy it and put it on yourself. you have to buy the RUF. porsche probably has an agreement with RUF that allows them to use their car to modify it.
Wait so its illegal to modify porches? OMG i have to warn thousands of poeple all over the world!
of course you can do those things-but the easier (but nor cheaper alterantive) is having RUF do it.
Btw I would say RUF is an independent car company that modifies porches :)
Zytek_Fan
10-21-2005, 11:01 PM
I think Rufs have a carbon fibre monoque
carsnut
10-21-2005, 11:27 PM
I think fully-modified Kleeman cars are still registered as Mercedes vehicles though...
If you want tuned mercedes go brabus
NuclearCrap
10-22-2005, 01:16 AM
That's not a RGT.
A RGT interior is very different.
It is, I found it on fastauto.net. The one in your pic is newer version, maybe that's why.(please don't consider it a spam as I intentionally didn't post it earlier)
MrKipling
10-24-2005, 07:13 AM
It really is as simple as this:
Ruf have their own chassis number - that makes them an independant manufacturer. There are very strict laws regarding the modification and application of VINs and aftermarket tuners won't be allowed to touch them. As far as I'm aware, RUF just buy the rights to use Porsche designs and build their own chassis, panels etc.
man 430gt
10-24-2005, 07:36 AM
It isnt a tuner/modifier for Porsche because...
It has nothing to do with Porsche
They do not take Porsches and tune/modify them.
They are an independant company.
There, maybe your "dumbass" friend will face the fact he is wrong.
Yeah i think tell him tht way;)
PerfAdv
10-24-2005, 10:22 AM
Ruf cars may be legally not Porsches but they are Porsches. The Foundation of a Ruf is a Porsche. I don't know a lot about Ruf but a quick look at their website, it looks like they mod Porsches.
**This confusion doesn't exist with Bitter cars because atleast the car looks different than the mechanical donor car.
woodstock827
10-24-2005, 06:26 PM
a RUF is a Porsche with enough modifications that make it not a Porsche anymore... basically all that's left is the chassis and body..
therefore, it's both car manufacturer and tuner... although legally, it's an independent manufacturer who gets its parts from Porsche :)
example, if u build ur own car with let say Porsche parts, is it still a Porsche?
taz_rocks_miami
10-24-2005, 06:38 PM
After reading all the arguments and very carefull consideration on this matter...I've come to the conclusion that...I can't make up my mind!!! :p
MrKipling
10-25-2005, 02:02 AM
Yes, because it will still have a Porsche Chassis number. That's the nub of it, Ruf have their own chassis numbers, that means they are an independant car manufacturer. It's as straight cut as that.
m5child
11-04-2005, 09:52 AM
To my knowledge, RUF converts stock porsches, and is a Tuner turned car manufacturer, or at least they plan on producing their own car. But as far as i know, they convert Porsches,engine,suspension,platform, interior, exterior, so in other words, RUF is an entirely new car wrapped in a Porsche body. .
You buy a Porsches, take it to them, they take care of it, and BAMN, you get a RUF, a whole new toy.
dont quote me on this.
Ex: A Shelby Cobra is known as a Shelby, not an AC car Cobra. Before Carrol modified the little british car,it used to be just another brit,but it started getting noticed afterwards because of its racing and such. but anyways. All im saying is RUF/Shelby-Porsche/AC
Like,
Didn't the german gov't give them the official title saying they're a manufacturer of cars, as opposed to modifiers? It's official man... the germans say so!
woodstock827
11-04-2005, 12:50 PM
let just say they'r a manufacturer who build cars based on Porsches, but also modify Porsches
996 911 GT2
11-05-2005, 10:03 PM
They modify cars that are brought to them, and create cars from scratch based on body parts, engine and chassis from porsche, but they modify the body and engine as well. everything else in their made from scratch cars is all ruf.
TVR IS KING
11-05-2005, 10:15 PM
the main difference of course, is that porsches arnt on gran turismo, and RUF's are. :'(
Esperante
11-06-2005, 09:44 AM
RUF tunes cars. That, by definition, makes them a tuner. You may look at a tuner company as someone like Kleeman who keeps the car registered as a Mercedes or as someone who slaps Veilsides on Supras, but RUF augments Porsches. There's no denying that.
kennyknoxville
11-07-2005, 07:24 AM
they're a tuner company imo. how could you say theyre entirely different? its a frickin porsche
woodstock827
11-07-2005, 09:00 AM
^ yea.. tell that to the Germany Department of Transportation... ;)
dmoney6
11-08-2005, 05:46 PM
Would Ruf be akin to an Alpina (for BMWs) or even a Gemballa?
Esperante
11-08-2005, 06:29 PM
^ yea.. tell that to the Germany Department of Transportation... ;)
GDOT classifies it as its own company. That doesn't change the fact that it modifies Porsches.
Would Ruf be akin to an Alpina (for BMWs) or even a Gemballa?
Yes.
ForT MinoR
11-08-2005, 07:10 PM
ruf is not a tuner nor modfied porche they just have the porche body and chasis
Esperante
11-08-2005, 07:11 PM
ruf is not a tuner nor modfied porche they just have the porche body and chasis
But they take them straight from Porsche stock, no? It's one thing if they order the chassis and body and then build up from there, but they take Porsches, strip them, and build up. That's modifying.
dmoney6
11-08-2005, 10:14 PM
On the Ruf website it says "Think of us as a personal trainer for your Porsche" I'm pretty sure that that means they are a Porsche tuner, even tho the car may no longer be called a Porsche once they are done.
scottie300z
11-08-2005, 11:07 PM
It is a porsche in my opinion, but a beefed up porsche. So its not 100% porsche but the majority of it is. And to the whole veilside thing, a veilside toyota is still a toyota. You cant say all veilsides are toyotas b/c they do other makes as well. But ruf only does porsche so therefore all ruf's are porsches.
A ruf = a porsche but a porsche does not always = a ruf.
that reminds me of those SAT questions
Keeping in mind that all guys are sluts but all sluts are not guys, What are women?
you can insert your own punchline there.
Egg Nog
11-08-2005, 11:53 PM
But they take them straight from Porsche stock, no? It's one thing if they order the chassis and body and then build up from there, but they take Porsches, strip them, and build up. That's modifying.
I don't believe people can't understand what we've been saying ;)
Esperante
11-09-2005, 08:33 AM
I don't believe people can't understand what we've been saying ;)
Maybe once the pain killers wear off I can be upset that no one understands. :p
I keed, I keed.
Mustang
11-09-2005, 08:38 AM
esperante please change your avatar, i eep thinking its a karrmann / prius style avatar and wanna kill the owner :p
Esperante
11-09-2005, 04:10 PM
esperante please change your avatar, i eep thinking its a karrmann / prius style avatar and wanna kill the owner :p
It's Peter Griffin!
http://us.ent4.yimg.com/tv.yahoo.com/images/he/photo/tv_pix/fox/family_guy/seth_macfarlane/ep_peter1.jpg
PerfAdv
11-09-2005, 05:50 PM
If the GDOT gave me the right to label cars as a manufacturer. And suppose I took BMWs and heavily modified them, what would I have? I take a M3; blueprint and stroke the engine to 3.6 liters, change the lifeless stock leather with Connolly hides, and offer the car in TVR-esque hues. The GDOT is registering the cars as PAV(Performance Advantage Vehicles). The M3 derivative is the PAV36. What do you see rolling down the street? A modified BMW.
Such is the case with Ruf.
.. suppose I took BMWs and heavily modified them, what would I have? .. A modified BMW.
Such is the case with Ruf.
Indeed ;)
As Scottie implied .. you can take the Ruf out of a Porsche, but never take the Porsche out of a Ruf :p
Big deal about the dedicated chassis numbers, many other 'tuners' do that too. As but one example, HSV also employ their own ID # system to incomplete Holden Commodores which they modifiy/convert. These vehicles are then legally 'type complianced' using HSV doccumentation and are officially identified/registered by Govt as HSVs
Although this new legal ID # recognition gives HSV bragging rights to be deemed as an autonomous manufacturer under law (and in advertisements) the REAL REASON as much as anything else is to remove/absolve Holden from any legal liability towards the modified HSV product. But only blind freddie would fail to see the Holden foundation & connection
Likewise with Porsche & Ruf