i get an x-box 360 before you do

[Juggs]

me and my crew at work drink a lot of mountain dew as as im sure many of you know mountain dew is holding a contest right now where you can win an x-box 360 and they give one away every 10 minutes. well we cashed in a ton of points and guess what? we won! thats right we're getting a free xbox 360 courtesy of mountain dew and the best part is we get it a day or 2 before they are released to the public! its going on ebay tho around christmas time when they are scarce . we're gonna go to a place that has a line of people waiting to get theirs too and we're gonna try to auction it off there but if that doesnt work its time for ebay. it comes with a free game too. not sure if its the hard drive version or not yet tho.

[ScionDriver]

A friend of mine won one the same way. He is really looking forward to this weekend when he gets it.

[scottie300z]

ha ha whoa.

[furious_fiero]

Stop trying to make money on it, and keep it. Its gonna be a sweet system!

[Esperante]

hardly
Care to elabourate?

[NuclearCrap]

Played it at a store today, and graphics wasn't as good as I expected, worse than my PC. Antialiasing on the X360 is crap.

[furious_fiero]

Played it at a store today, and graphics wasn't as good as I expected, worse than my PC. Antialiasing on the X360 is crap.

What game did you play? I played Call of Duty 2 for XB 360 and the graphics were unreal! It felt like you were actually in the war. Also, the games that they let you play in stores are just demos, not full version games with all the graphic enhancements.

Dont compare an Xbox 360 to a PC. How about you go buy a $500 computer and compare that to an XB 360? Ya, you cant! The 360 would blow it away! For the moeny the 360 is the best you can get.

[NuclearCrap]

What game did you play? I played Call of Duty 2 for XB 360 and the graphics were unreal! It felt like you were actually in the war. Also, the games that they let you play in stores are just demos, not full version games with all the graphic enhancements.

Dont compare an Xbox 360 to a PC. How about you go buy a $500 computer and compare that to an XB 360? Ya, you cant! The 360 would blow it away! For the moeny the 360 is the best you can get.

What about the screenshots I seen online? Btw I don't mind the price gap at all. :) The free games you can get on PC makes up for it. :D (I guess you know what i mean by "free", hehe) Full versions have the same graphics, why would they convince you to buy a crappy looking game? I felt like I was actually in the war in BattleField 2, PC version of course. In half a year PS3 and PC are gonna be the total pwnage, but in the end PC is just gonna pwn PS3 and X360 altogether. I don't get to listen to free music and watch free movies on consoles, lol. :D

[furious_fiero]

What about the screenshots I seen online? Btw I don't mind the price gap at all. :) The free games you can get on PC makes up for it. :D (I guess you know what i mean by "free", hehe) Full versions have the same graphics, why would they convince you to buy a crappy looking game? I felt like I was actually in the war in BattleField 2, PC version of course. In half a year PS3 and PC are gonna be the total pwnage, but in the end PC is just gonna pwn PS3 and X360 altogether. I don't get to listen to free music and watch free movies on consoles, lol. :D

Man you really need to get updated on technology. By "free" games, you can do that with Xbox as well. You can also hook up your ipod and play have it playing while you are in a game. There is an internet browser for it in the making. PS3 is gonna be twice as expensive as Xbox 360. You go spend $3000 on a computer that will be up to date for about 3 months. I will go buy an Xbox 360 for $400 and be covered for at least 5 years.

[NuclearCrap]

Man you really need to get updated on technology. By "free" games, you can do that with Xbox as well. You can also hook up your ipod and play have it playing while you are in a game. There is an internet browser for it in the making. PS3 is gonna be twice as expensive as Xbox 360. You go spend $3000 on a computer that will be up to date for about 3 months. I will go buy an Xbox 360 for $400 and be covered for at least 5 years.

Consoles aren't up to date for 5 years, they get pwned by PC in a couple of months after release I am updated on technology, I know about these consoles. And I don't have to burn disc to play those "free" games. Opening my music player in my PC is much faster and easier, and it can hold much much more songs than iPods. Any PCs aren't out-dated unless they can't run new games anymore.

[clutch-monkey]

download your patches, update your drivers and adjust your settings on pc but i'll be happy with just sticking a dvd in the slot.:D

[furious_fiero]

Consoles aren't up to date for 5 years, they get pwned by PC in a couple of months after release I am updated on technology, I know about these consoles. And I don't have to burn disc to play those "free" games. Opening my music player in my PC is much faster and easier, and it can hold much much more songs than iPods. Any PCs aren't out-dated unless they can't run new games anymore.

Yes PCs do have better graphics...but thats after a $700 graphics card which you have to update for new games every 6 months. I bought my computer a year ago for $2400, its now worth less then $500. I feel ripped off. Computers update too much, and are too expensive. If you get a Xbox 360, you can at least play 500 + games that are released on it for 5 years without having to pay extra on updating the system. Also, when consoles come out, they usually dont release the best they got for at least a year or two. Compare Halo one graphics to Halo 2 graphics. Halo 2 graphics are 100 times better...and they were improved with no hardware upgrades. You are also able to load as many songs as you can fit on 20gigs with the Xbox 360 built in hard drive and play those while you are in a game. You can also buy a bigger hard drive for the Xbox if you want more memory(not required though to play updated games) Also, you are able to play games right off the hard drive of an Xbox 360 just like you would on a PC. (with some software updates) Buddy, dont even try anymore. I know PCs are good, but for the money a console system is way better.

[werty]

when the PS3 graphics card comes out for PC, sony and Nvidia are purposefully detuning it....it will make all ps3 console games much better looking than pc. I have read this from many sources including ign.com

It's a big effort to make the pc guys convert to console...and eventually it will work. And like i said, my friend has 2 Geforce ultra 6800's and his graphics are no where near as good as the tom clancy game i played on the 360 demo....you will see it in time, and you will be corrected...all of you pc fanboys

[NuclearCrap]

Yes PCs do have better graphics...but thats after a $700 graphics card which you have to update for new games every 6 months. I bought my computer a year ago for $2400, its now worth less then $500. I feel ripped off. Computers update too much, and are too expensive. If you get a Xbox 360, you can at least play 500 + games that are released on it for 5 years without having to pay extra on updating the system. Also, when consoles come out, they usually dont release the best they got for at least a year or two. Compare Halo one graphics to Halo 2 graphics. Halo 2 graphics are 100 times better...and they were improved with no hardware upgrades. You are also able to load as many songs as you can fit on 20gigs with the Xbox 360 built in hard drive and play those while you are in a game. You can also buy a bigger hard drive for the Xbox if you want more memory(not required though to play updated games) Also, you are able to play games right off the hard drive of an Xbox 360 just like you would on a PC. (with some software updates) Buddy, dont even try anymore. I know PCs are good, but for the money a console system is way better.

For $700 I can get 2 graphic cards and run them in SLI, and that's what I'm doing: saving for my 2nd 6800GT. One year ago? Yes, of course!! PCI-E was still kinda new one year ago, so it was much more expensive than now. And plus SLI wasn't introduced back then, so you have to keep swapping graphic cards over time. When I get my 2nd card in January, it would last for much longer. Btw you know there's not that much to improve on games anymore, they're near perfect already. My single 6800GT performs a little better than X360 already, and once I SLI it, it would even be way better than PS3. SLI can boost graphics performance up to 1.9x, and plus it's better when you have 2 GPUs instead of 1. For the money, consoles are better, for the quality, PC's better, and I prefer quality over quantity. :D

[NuclearCrap]

when the PS3 graphics card comes out for PC, sony and Nvidia are purposefully detuning it....it will make all ps3 console games much better looking than pc. I have read this from many sources including ign.com

It's a big effort to make the pc guys convert to console...and eventually it will work. And like i said, my friend has 2 Geforce ultra 6800's and his graphics are no where near as good as the tom clancy game i played on the 360 demo....you will see it in time, and you will be corrected...all of you pc fanboys

Well your friend needs to use Shader 3.0 and manually set antialiasing to 8x in control panels to get the best outta the game. I can do that with one card. Of course you'll think the X360's Splinter Cell is better because that specific one isn't out for PC yet, and 2x 6800 Ultra can go way beyond the limits than that game. Btw, brand matters too, you have to choose the right brand for graphic cards to get better quality than others. As far as I know BFG is totally crap, they OC'ed all their cards to meet the performance of stock, non OC'ed cards of other brands.

[furious_fiero]

I guess if you have money to blow...get a PC. If you think the graphics on a PC are dramtically improved over a Xbox 360, then you have amazing eyes. I saw Call of Duty 2 play, and just cant imagine something better. Its unreal!

[NuclearCrap]

I guess if you have money to blow...get a PC. If you think the graphics on a PC are dramtically improved over a Xbox 360, then you have amazing eyes. I saw Call of Duty 2 play, and just cant imagine something better. Its unreal!

Look a bit closer and you'll find all those jaggy lines around objects, antialiasing really suck on the X360 version of that game. But on PC, you can actually do something about it. I don't have amazing eyes, if you have played Half-Life 2: Lost Coast or F.E.A.R., you would understand why PC is better. :)

[furious_fiero]

Look a bit closer and you'll find all those jaggy lines around objects, antialiasing really suck on the X360 version of that game. But on PC, you can actually do something about it. I don't have amazing eyes, if you have played Half-Life 2: Lost Coast or F.E.A.R., you would understand why PC is better. :)

Sorry I dont go close up to my screen and look for minor flaws. I will be seeing it from my leather couch and 60" big screen. Im sure it will look perfect...to me at least.

PS-My friend has a crazy gamer computer, and he plays Half-Life 2...it looks good, but nothing that is more spectacular and worth more money then the Xbox 360.

[scottie300z]

i would rather have a computer myself, it does more. so it makes up for the higher price tag. but then again ya'll are talking gaming so i dunno. im not too much of a gamer. But if its worth anything, i bought my current not so great computer for less then what the new xbox will cost, and it does run half life 2. not as good as the game could run, but it does. So theoretically, i could spend the same on a computer and get about the same gaming performance. theoretically.

[NuclearCrap]

Sorry I dont go close up to my screen and look for minor flaws. I will be seeing it from my leather couch and 60" big screen. Im sure it will look perfect...to me at least.

PS-My friend has a crazy gamer computer, and he plays Half-Life 2...it looks good, but nothing that is more spectacular and worth more money then the Xbox 360.

Looking closer as in paying a little more attention to graphics, jaggy lines really does bother serious gamers like me. I can even tell that the 3D steering wheel in the new PGR isn't circular enough just by looking at the tiny picture on the back of the box. BattleField 2: Special Forces expansion pack comes next week the 22nd. :D Now that looks better than X360 version of Call of Duty 2. ;)

[2ndclasscitizen]

Looking closer as in paying a little more attention to graphics, jaggy lines really does bother serious gamers like me. I can even tell that the 3D steering wheel in the new PGR isn't circular enough just by looking at the tiny picture on the back of the box. BattleField 2: Special Forces expansion pack comes next week the 22nd. :D Now that looks better than X360 version of Call of Duty 2. ;)
good god, you are so pedantic. I'd love to see you play Burnout sitting there bitching about the Graphics

[Blitz_]

your kidding me right, why is there so much bitching about graphics? damn people, hmm i think most, or alot of you have forgetton about an aspect of games called "gameplay". Now, for some graphic whores, aka NuclearCrap, such a foreign word may be hard to understand and learn, but in the end it far outweighs graphics. If a game has jaggies, then woopdy f_(@*# doo, because if the gameplay makes me shit my pants, then i don't give a hoot to be honest. Half life: Lost Cost, well looks good indeed, but please, Half Life gameplay gets seriously repetitive and boring after an hour or so.

Battlefield 2: Special forces looks good indeed, hmm cruize over and take a nice look at Gears of War mate.

The 360 may not have the greatest looking games to blow your socks off, but they will be significantly better, and during the months new games will be released that will fully utilise the power avaliable. Perfect Dark Zero for examply on uses on core. All the fan boys pick out the jaggies and character models, but it is when you play the game in real life, that is when you realise the difference.

I prefer my console gaming for the enjoyment of playing games with my mates and in more comfort and luxury, the online gaming community is great, a plethora of players, and Microsoft have already established a great setup with Xbox Live!

The 360, imo will be a winner, there is a problem with shortages, and there is great demand in pre-orders and what not. News has been promosing about advertising campaigns and thank god, good news about perfect dark zero to keep the fan boys happy.

The ps3 will be a great console, but remember this. Killzone video was exactly that, a cgi video, not in game footage, it is what teh developers "would like it to look like". The ps3 itself, and the controller are fooked. The console itself has no vents, and the controller is, well c'mon everyone, screwed. Therefore, the pictures of the "fridge" , or "george forman grille" ps3 are not final. Furthermore, Sony, as seen from its promotion of the Ps2 before release, are great bullshitters. Most likely, the ps3 will not be as great as alot of people claim it to be. In fact, if i can find an article, it showed direct specifictation comparison between the 360 and the ps3, and suprise suprise, the 360 came off the better console. In some aspects, the 360 excelled the ps3 by a great margin. Only time will tell and once both are released, we will see then which is indeed the better

[Matra et Alpine]

Man you really need to get updated on technology. By "free" games, you can do that with Xbox as well.
Only by hardware mods that invalidate warranty :D

You can also hook up your ipod and play have it playing while you are in a game.
Why bother doing that ? Jsut hook it in to your stereo and play it on decent speakers :D

There is an internet browser for it in the making. PS3 is gonna be twice as expensive as Xbox 360. You go spend $3000 on a computer that will be up to date for about 3 months. I will go buy an Xbox 360 for $400 and be covered for at least 5 years.
erm, the "up to date" PC can be kept up to date by adding new graphics as they are released, by incresing processors speed as they are released etc etc.
The reality is that the Xbox is ALREADY out of date, but they will make it for the next 5 years :D
The PS3 is nearly out of date already, coz once they freeze the hardware it's "old".

THE winner on consoles is the price.
But remember most folks are using a computer for other things so most of that $3000 is invested already :)

Anyway, since when did boys-with-toys actually care about bottom lines :D :D

[Matra et Alpine]

when the PS3 graphics card comes out for PC, sony and Nvidia are purposefully detuning it....it will make all ps3 console games much better looking than pc. I have read this from many sources including ign.com
The new gen nVidia SLI graphics cards are ALREADY more powerful than the silicon cast for the PS3.
There won't be a "PS3 grpahics card" for the PC.
nVidia technology is used in both lines but nobody has so far talked about making a version of the PS3 for the PC. It woudlnt' make sense !! Can you point to a ref for that ??

It's a big effort to make the pc guys convert to console...and eventually it will work. And like i said, my friend has 2 Geforce ultra 6800's and his graphics are no where near as good as the tom clancy game i played on the 360 demo....you will see it in time, and you will be corrected...all of you pc fanboys
Not "fanboys", technical realists :)
How are you judging his "graphics" ? I've come across many who said "superior" only because they've seen it on a large screen TV or projection system. Hook a PC up to those ( which we've done every LAN party for the last 10 years :) ) and it blows away that psychological advantage.
And looks liek you're comparing an old and a new game ? How have you seperated the game improvements from the grpahics performance ??

[Matra et Alpine]

Sorry I dont go close up to my screen and look for minor flaws. I will be seeing it from my leather couch and 60" big screen. Im sure it will look perfect...to me at least.
aha, is your 60" screen HD ? is it 1080p ??

If not then you are lookign at the equivalent of a 1024x760 display as that's all the resolution there is AT BEST on analogue TV ( PAL and NTSC ). If it's less than $5k then it's down at 800x600 quality :(

So you can't see detail at all and are seeing only the gprahical features the GAME DEVELOEPR has chosen. So specular highlights become "important" as they make the slightly fuzzy images look good.


PS-My friend has a crazy gamer computer, and he plays Half-Life 2...it looks good, but nothing that is more spectacular and worth more money then the Xbox 360.
Watch the PC games on a 60" BARCO projection system and you'll see the difference :D
Sounds like you're comparuing a 19" screen and a 60" screen. You can't get away from the psychological differences that raises in our perception. Remvoe that bias and compare and you'll see where some fo the comments are coming from.

[Matra et Alpine]

your kidding me right, why is there so much bitching about graphics?
I think because the gameplay can equally be BAD in new console games too.
And equaly can be as good in the PC versions.
You're comparing the game developers software capability then and not the hardware.

[Blitz_]

I still think that game developers are foregoing gameplay for graphics, well in alot of cases anyway. Games such as F.E.A.R argue against that statement, and im happy for it because it is a great combination. Half life 2 was a good game, i think it was over-rated and over-hyped. Became boring and lacked replayability. I know im going to get flamed for this, but i like halo2 more, the multiplayer packs that online punch that i can never get sick of.

ALOT of pc games has some seriously shit gameplay, and same with consoles too. I don't really like pc games all that much, i enjoy games for being with mates and fraggin each otha in a halo match or something else. Then again, PC games are good for me when im alone and want to just sit back and play anything at all if im bored.

I've been to one lan, and one lan only. I swear, any longer in there and i would have gone through the first stages of turning into a geek. It was definetely a bit "queer" and too, well, erm "nerdy" for my liking. Ill stick to sitting on the couch with some mates and enjoying a beer while smashing the shit out of each other...in the game that is.

In terms of the "out of date" scenario. I don't realy care. Some pc fan boy will walk up to me with his smirk smile and pimple ridden face and laugh at me, only to be told in return ive spend a fraction of the money, i actually have friends to play with, i dont need to confine myself int solitary confinment to a singular pc and i don't brag about owning something in which i play every now and then to pass time. He'll say he has better graphics and better games, but ill just calmy reply that i have something that is relatively cheap and can be enjoyed by many people.

[Matra et Alpine]

the gameplay v graphics will always be a range in the industry. Some will want to sell you the game and they know flashy wins. Others will know hat customer satisfaction matters and hope to sell you a leter version and hence wnat good gameplay for the loyalty factor. It's not any different anywhere else in the software industry :D

Blitz, there are more on-line people with PCs than the console can EVER match.

On-line gaming existed on the PC before consoles :D

Have you never had your mates round with their PCs/Laptops for fun gaming ? We set up MotoGp or TT Superbikes each time we're having a biker-barbie. Great fun after a few beers and ratburgers !!! SOme of the guys I taight nearly 10 years ago still occasionally get together. The "lan parties" arent' these huge commercial events, just fun for mates.

I'm confused by your point re more people on consoles :)

You ever tried counter strike online or tribes ? Call of Duty is good on-line, but I'm more into realistic racing sims ( now there's a surprise ). One area the consoles still haven't managed to stack up as they focus on the arcade game "replacement" :(

[RISE AGAINST]

I just bought one yesterday. It's an amazing machine. I've got the game guns, and the whole point of the game is to shoot things. I can't wait till PGR3 comes out. I also have a PS3 on order... whenever Sony decides for it to come out.

[P3RG4R3C]

You bought an X360 and you have a PS3 on order? You must be rich! :p

[6'bore]

I just bought one yesterday. It's an amazing machine. I've got the game guns, and the whole point of the game is to shoot things. I can't wait till PGR3 comes out. I also have a PS3 on order... whenever Sony decides for it to come out.

They arent out yet. So how did you buy one yesterday?

And how can you have something on order when you don't even know when the release date is?

Seriosuly come up with some more believable lies please.

[werty]

The new gen nVidia SLI graphics cards are ALREADY more powerful than the silicon cast for the PS3.
There won't be a "PS3 grpahics card" for the PC.
nVidia technology is used in both lines but nobody has so far talked about making a version of the PS3 for the PC. It woudlnt' make sense !! Can you point to a ref for that ??

Not "fanboys", technical realists :)
How are you judging his "graphics" ? I've come across many who said "superior" only because they've seen it on a large screen TV or projection system. Hook a PC up to those ( which we've done every LAN party for the last 10 years :) ) and it blows away that psychological advantage.
And looks liek you're comparing an old and a new game ? How have you seperated the game improvements from the grpahics performance ??
i did give a reference, i said ign.com
i know you are talking about the 7800, but the card i was reading about it supposed to be better than it..yet not as powerful as the ps3 chip...like i said, in an effort to make more poeple buy consoles over pc's...and yes that does make sense;)

[werty]

this really is a stupid arguement

just buy whats looks best or is most affordable for you;)

[RISE AGAINST]

They arent out yet. So how did you buy one yesterday?

And how can you have something on order when you don't even know when the release date is?

Seriosuly come up with some more believable lies please.

I bought on from Electronic Boutique in Barrie Ont yesterday. Here, have fun with the serial code.

FR3L00005927.

[Guest]

right, i wanna see what an X360 looks like in a house, care to provide any pics RISE AGAINST? And while you at it you could get some pics of your girlfirend, A4 and your uncles 360!

[6'bore]

I bought on from Electronic Boutique in Barrie Ont yesterday. Here, have fun with the serial code.

FR3L00005927.

I had endless miliseconds of fun with that, thanks alot :rolleyes:

No-one is going to believe you because of all the bull**** you have spoken recently.

[Blitz_]

the gameplay v graphics will always be a range in the industry. Some will want to sell you the game and they know flashy wins. Others will know hat customer satisfaction matters and hope to sell you a leter version and hence wnat good gameplay for the loyalty factor. It's not any different anywhere else in the software industry :D

Blitz, there are more on-line people with PCs than the console can EVER match.

On-line gaming existed on the PC before consoles :D

Have you never had your mates round with their PCs/Laptops for fun gaming ? We set up MotoGp or TT Superbikes each time we're having a biker-barbie. Great fun after a few beers and ratburgers !!! SOme of the guys I taight nearly 10 years ago still occasionally get together. The "lan parties" arent' these huge commercial events, just fun for mates.

I'm confused by your point re more people on consoles :)

You ever tried counter strike online or tribes ? Call of Duty is good on-line, but I'm more into realistic racing sims ( now there's a surprise ). One area the consoles still haven't managed to stack up as they focus on the arcade game "replacement" :(

I still see a trillion cables and pc cases clogging up a room as nerdy and quite disturbing, and i guess that opinion will never change. Just that console gaming with mates is much more enjoyable and fun. Now with the wireless controllers it will be even more fun. But, i will miss the days of pulling out my mates controllers for that extra edge in halo :D

I know pc online gamers far outweighs console gamers online, but have you considered the console / online gamer, and pc / online gamer ratio. There are far more pc's than consoles. I play counter strike source online sometimes, i see myself as pretty good, last nite on Aussault, 28 kills, 3 deaths.

[Matra et Alpine]

I still see a trillion cables and pc cases clogging up a room as nerdy and quite disturbing, and i guess that opinion will never change. Just that console gaming with mates is much more enjoyable and fun. Now with the wireless controllers it will be even more fun. But, i will miss the days of pulling out my mates controllers for that extra edge in halo :D
do you know how long wireless controllers have been available for PCs ?
First there were the infra-read ones, then the radio then the 802.11g and bluetooth ?
See Mircosh!t are promoting all the "wireless" stuff and then making you pay more for it and then pay more to be able to recharge it :D
Marketing wins over customer and engineering again :(

I know pc online gamers far outweighs console gamers online, but have you considered the console / online gamer, and pc / online gamer ratio. There are far more pc's than consoles. I play counter strike source online sometimes, i see myself as pretty good, last nite on Aussault, 28 kills, 3 deaths.
only 28 ?
pshht !!
I'm cr@p at shooters and have the distinction of destroying a mates son rep at a lan game we set up as I "played" online as him unwittingly and in 30 minutes had destroyed his scores !!!!

Talking ratios when looking at gamers online is a bit irrelevant. It would be on a par with comparing the number of online gamers in cream painted bedrooms versus the black painted rooms !!:D

[Tourbillon]

What game did you play? I played Call of Duty 2 for XB 360 and the graphics were unreal! It felt like you were actually in the war.

Wait till you try VR. :D

[spi-ti-tout]

only 28 ?
pshht !!
I'm cr@p at shooters and have the distinction of destroying a mates son rep at a lan game we set up as I "played" online as him unwittingly and in 30 minutes had destroyed his scores !!!!
I think I can stand up for matey Blitz_ over here, having played the "Assault" stage (somewhat excessively :o)

it all depends on what the stage looks like and how it's formed P. Thing with Aussault is it's very hard to ever predict what will happen (as should be with a proper stage) because Cop's can coem in from any three directions - main garage door with open shoot-and-fire, rooftop for tactical operations or backdoor for either since cover is given by two huge cargo containers. So the terrorists have to fend in for themselves by either going at the three OR protecting their land. Both are interesting.

My strategy is simple - send group A in from the back to create a diversion, group B in from garage door when they're not looking and group C to save the hostages :D

EDIT: Just saw what you wrote about comparing results, my bad :o

But God, I miss CS :( :( :(

[matek]

well the thing is forget about the grafix bit

ps3 processor run rate is at terraflops which is insane and seing as this processor is patented to sony and only they can use the best thing is in half a years time youll be able to buy a laptop so amazing ly powerfull with grafix that blow your mind out of your skull with two compressed laptop cards running together,

and laptop batteries are going to be replaced in the next year or so by a completely new method of storing energy so they will last for soooo much longer on the go,

so all of you save up and half a years time buy yr selves a sony laptop which will be wirless and be above consoles, and will take up less space than any pc:p

[Tourbillon]

well the thing is forget about the grafix bit

ps3 processor run rate is at terraflops which is insane and seing as this processor is patented to sony and only they can use the best thing is in half a years time youll be able to buy a laptop so amazing ly powerfull with grafix that blow your mind out of your skull with two compressed laptop cards running together,

and laptop batteries are going to be replaced in the next year or so by a completely new method of storing energy so they will last for soooo much longer on the go,

so all of you save up and half a years time buy yr selves a sony laptop which will be wirless and be above consoles, and will take up less space than any pc:p

Hey, is it teh hydrogen cell? :D

And it's teraflops! lol! Not giga... How insane is that?



But, I'm still going for the Three-Sixty. :)

[Zytek_Fan]

well the thing is forget about the grafix bit

ps3 processor run rate is at terraflops which is insane and seing as this processor is patented to sony and only they can use the best thing is in half a years time youll be able to buy a laptop so amazing ly powerfull with grafix that blow your mind out of your skull with two compressed laptop cards running together,

and laptop batteries are going to be replaced in the next year or so by a completely new method of storing energy so they will last for soooo much longer on the go,

so all of you save up and half a years time buy yr selves a sony laptop which will be wirless and be above consoles, and will take up less space than any pc:p
The Xbox 360 has an IBM PowerPC processor which has a processing rate of 3 teraflops

[Tourbillon]

I think the PS3 has more, I read an article somewhere... About 4 or so.

[Blitz_]

lol yer only 28 mate, 12 people in the server only..

ill bring up something about the specs of both ps3 and x360, in a nutshell, sony is all talk and no go, 360 got the balls and released thier goods.

[Matra et Alpine]

guys, measuring core processor speeds is pointless.

You make a parallel very simple processor like the cell and it can RIP.
BUT then you struggle to get the task to them and the results out.

What Sony are doing the computer industry played with decades ago and identified the pros and cons. The outcome of all of that was that unless the software is optimised or a VERY smart environment built then it's hard to make use of those fast clock spoeeds - sound familiar ? The PS2 all over again. How many years has it taken game developers to get the best out of the PS2 ? Sony don't have the income to invest in major platform development and support that XBox and PC are "stealing" from the DIrectX community :(

It's going to be real-world applications running on the machines that will be the only real benchmark that has any sense. Same as graphics fill rates - great number, but unless the game developers have created realistic surfaces and hi-res textures and good 3d models it all can mean zip in the look and even LESS impact ont he already noted necessary "gameplay".

[Matra et Alpine]

The Xbox 360 has an IBM PowerPC processor which has a processing rate of 3 teraflops
wtf ?
no. The fastest PowerPC is only good for 3Gflops in world tests and XBox have only ever claimed the theoretical value of about 110Gflops. BUT that's an artificial number based on a the fastest vector piplined isntruction they can repeat in the architecture. It's NOT real world.

To get terraflops in general usage of things that are NOT just ego(bench)marks then you need serious computing hardware and cost. Check out Cray, HP SuperDome and IBM BLueGene :D

[werty]

Custom IBM PowerPC-based CPU

3 symmetrical cores running at 3.2 GHz each

2 hardware threads per core; 6 hardware threads total

1 VMX-128 vector unit per core; 3 total

128 VMX-128 registers per hardware thread

1 MB L2 cache

CPU Game Math Performance

9 billion dot product operations per second

Custom ATI Graphics Processor

500 MHz

10 MB embedded DRAM

48-way parallel floating-point dynamically-scheduled shader pipelines

Unified shader architecture

Polygon Performance

500 million triangles per second

Pixel Fill Rate

16 gigasamples per second fillrate using 4X MSAA

Shader Performance

48 billion shader operations per second

Memory

512 MB GDDR3 RAM

700 MHz DDR

Unified memory architecture

Memory Bandwidth

22.4 GBs memory interface bus bandwidth

256 GBs memory bandwidth to EDRAM

21.6 GBs front-side bus

Overall System Floating-Point Performance

1 TFLOP

Storage

Custom detachable and upgradeable 20 GB hard drive, sold with Xbox 360 tier, or separately from the Core System.

12X dual-layer DVD-ROM

Memory unit support starting at 64 MB

I/O

Support for up to four wireless game controllers

3 USB 2.0 ports

2 memory unit slots

[werty]

The Cell processor was co-designed by IBM, Toshiba and Sony. Configurations can differ, but here's what the PS3's Cell chip will be like:

PowerPC-based Core @ 3.2GHz
7 SPEs @ 3.2GHz
512KB L2 Cache
7 x 256KB SRAM for SPEs
Basically, a single Cell processor is designed to act like multiple processors working together, or even independently. A Cell processor has a single PowerPC Architecture Unit (PAU) and multiple Synergistic Processing Elements (SPEs). A Cell's PAU dolls out instructions to its various SPEs, which can then independently work on tasks. So for instance, one SPU might be programmed to run a game's AI while another handles physics. Since each one acts independently, multiple calculations can be done simultaneously. In other words, it's very powerful. In fact, it's powerful enough to perform 218 GFLOPS.

NVIDIA's chip is codenamed RSX. The chip runs at 550MHz and is capable of rendering two 1080p signals simultaneously. It's touted to hit 1.8 TFLOPS of floating point performance and can perform 100 billion shader operations per second, or 136 shader operations per cycle. The RSX uses 128-bit precision for enhanced color definition, making the system capable of High Dynamic Range rendering. Programming-wise, it's based on OpenGL and NVIDIA's CG language.
NVIDIA recently released its GeForce 7800 GTX GPU for the PC, which provides a reasonable real-world approximation of what sort of effects the RSX and PlayStation 3 can handle. The RSX is a step beyond the GeForce 7800 GTX however, making it faster than anything currently available for the PC.
READ THE LAST LINE

ign.com

[werty]

So here's what we are looking at

PC=good
360=better
PS3=holy !@#$^@$^@#%^ thats good!!!!

[Matra et Alpine]

no, what you are looking at is the marketing success of catching gullible kiddies :D

EVERY performance number cited has been specifically worded to take the FASTEST single operation the hardware can do and them IMPLY that that is it's performance !!! By all involved/

oh and even nVidia have pointed out that at launch the RSX will be SLIGHTLY faster than available boards from them BUT that it wont' be for long. And remember the console is going to be stuck with the RSX for 5 years whilst nVidia et al double performance every 18 months !!!

[Guest]

Don't you just love Moore's law!

[furious_fiero]

Hardly any of those stats for PS3 are confirmed. They will for sure reduce and add more things to the system. Basically they are releasing late so that they have some time to make the PS3 better then the Xbox 360. Too bad Sony online gaming support sucks!

[Matra et Alpine]

Don't you just love Moore's law!
don't you just.

Since that article was written, nVidia announced on the 14th November the latest version of the 7800 as "33% faster". That's real-world faster by comparing game performance and not just citing some internal clock or bus :D

SO as proposed, the PC will be faster !
But as always at a cost.
There again if you had the choice of buying a fast Renault Clio or for double the price having a Ferrari or COrvette, would YOU find the extra cash ??

[werty]

SO as proposed, the PC will be faster !

either way microsoft and sony will own you and me:p

like i said before, it doesnt really matter, the games for pc, 360, and ps3 will look almost identical....mostly depends on the game designer if he wants it to look great or not

and if they do try to convert pc people to console's...it will work eventually, because they own the entire gaming and computer industry (microsoft and sony that is)

[Guest]

either way microsoft and sony will own you and me:p

like i said before, it doesnt really matter, the games for pc, 360, and ps3 will look almost identical....mostly depends on the game designer if he wants it to look great or not

and if they do try to convert pc people to console's...it will work eventually, because they own the entire gaming and computer industry (microsoft and sony that is)
then hopefully games will be written for Linux!!!

[Prius]

me and my crew at work drink a lot of mountain dew as as im sure many of you know mountain dew is holding a contest right now where you can win an x-box 360 and they give one away every 10 minutes. well we cashed in a ton of points and guess what? we won! thats right we're getting a free xbox 360 courtesy of mountain dew and the best part is we get it a day or 2 before they are released to the public! its going on ebay tho around christmas time when they are scarce . we're gonna go to a place that has a line of people waiting to get theirs too and we're gonna try to auction it off there but if that doesnt work its time for ebay. it comes with a free game too. not sure if its the hard drive version or not yet tho.

I would expect it to be the core, not the silver plus.

[Zytek_Fan]

Sony has lost exclusive rights to many game companies

[NuclearCrap]

Damn dudes, no need to go that far calling me names and such, I never said anything like that to you guys, and I think Matra knows what I feel. I'm not all about graphics, that's why I like playing F.E.A.R. and BF2, I was just amazed by HL2: Lost Coast, I never liked the HL2 AI system anyway, but I sure do like F.E.A.R.'s AI, it's just too smart for other games to beat it. My long awaiting BF2: Special Forces expansion is arriving Nov. 22nd, that's next week's Tuesday!!! I know all about these consoles, but I rather have a nice compy instead. The consoles' PowerPC micro-cpus aren't any faster than today's AMD dual cores, plus those PowerPC are by IBM and IBM is crap. I'd say they should get help from AMD next time. Speaking of graphics, the jaggy lines just bother me a lot, and X360 doesn't do a good job on it as antialiasing takes a lot out of a system and X360 itself just can't handle it. Btw, tweaking hardwares doesn't help much on performance, except for AGP video cards, a PCI-E would just work perfect without tweaks.

[NuclearCrap]

The RSX is a step beyond the GeForce 7800 GTX however, making it faster than anything currently available for the PC.

I'm sure about that, but they will never even imagine that RSX is better than 2 of 6800-series or higher put together. nVidia still gotta save the best for PC: SLI technology. Btw, check out the Leadtek WinFast 6600GT Duo Extreme, they actually dual-cored the 6600GT, adding up to 4 cores with SLI'ed. "making it faster than anything currently available for the PC." Well, that's an opinion, only found on IGN and a few more places. I guess that's why PC can never be beaten.

[Blitz_]

If your truly are worried at jaggies when playing a game, then you don't deserve to call yourself a true gamer. True gamers find enjoyment out of playing games such as mario kart and they don't need to worry and fret over textures and jaggies to enjoy themselves. True gamers treasure gameplay more than any other aspect of a game. And that is the undeniable truth.

[clutch-monkey]

^ agreed. graphics are overrated. i pity the people who shun nintendo consoles becuase they're not 'cool' enough or 'meant for children'. some of the best games i've played has been on the gamecube - metroid prime, rogue squadron etc

[Tourbillon]

Don't forget Harvest Moon A Wonderful Life... Has anyone ever played that?

[Matra et Alpine]

If your truly are worried at jaggies when playing a game, then you don't deserve to call yourself a true gamer. True gamers find enjoyment out of playing games such as mario kart and they don't need to worry and fret over textures and jaggies to enjoy themselves. True gamers treasure gameplay more than any other aspect of a game. And that is the undeniable truth.
and what when gameplay is equivalent ? THEN it's the graphics :D

AND in FPS, the quality of rendering can give you a MAJOR advantage in spotting the opponent before they spot you !!

"true" gamers look for the total immersion producing the feeling of BEING there. That is gameplay for sure so you cant' predict what's happening. It's also multiplayer sync so opponents visually are real in their movement AND it's about the psychological impact of convincing the brain that the image is "real". If you take any ONE out then you're using the brain to make up for the limitations.

[werty]

SNES owns all other consoles and PC's:D

[Solstice]

Btw, check out the Leadtek WinFast 6600GT Duo Extreme, they actually dual-cored the 6600GT

Just to dispel this, you cant run these cards in SLI.

Also, the latest version of the 7800 series (7800GTX 512MB) isnt 33% faster than a 7800GTX. 512MB of VRAM is useless for gamers at this point in time, as most games dont even utilize the 256MB that high-end cards these days ship with. Plus, its a staggering $750 retail

With that being said, I am in fact a PC gamer. I do however appriciate the 360 for what it is, a relatively cheap console that outperforms any PC under $1000. I just wish it had a bigger hard drive, and I had some money to get it.

[werty]

With that being said, I am in fact a PC gamer. I do however appriciate the 360 for what it is, a relatively cheap console that outperforms any PC under $1000. I just wish it had a bigger hard drive, and I had some money to get it.
20 gigs isn't enough for you:confused:

[Guest]

Just to dispel this, you cant run these cards in SLI.

Also, the latest version of the 7800 series (7800GTX 512MB) isnt 33% faster than a 7800GTX. 512MB of VRAM is useless for gamers at this point in time, as most games dont even utilize the 256MB that high-end cards these days ship with. Plus, its a staggering $750 retail

With that being said, I am in fact a PC gamer. I do however appriciate the 360 for what it is, a relatively cheap console that outperforms any PC under $1000. I just wish it had a bigger hard drive, and I had some money to get it.
Doom 3 with will only run on full ultra settings with a 512 mb card! HL2:The Lost Coast will probably be the same!

[Solstice]

20 gigs isn't enough for you
No, its not. My PS2 has 80 and I need more ;)


Doom 3 with will only run on full ultra settings with a 512 mb card! HL2:The Lost Coast will probably be the same!

I can run Lost Coast at max settings on my 7800GT.

[Matra et Alpine]

Also, the latest version of the 7800 series (7800GTX 512MB) isnt 33% faster than a 7800GTX. 512MB of VRAM is useless for gamers at this point in time, as most games dont even utilize the 256MB that high-end cards these days ship with. Plus, its a staggering $750 retail

oh dear :(

See http://www.nvidia.com/object/IO_27509.html nVidia's STATEMENT ON THE 33% FASTER
The 512GTX has a faster GPU.

DOn't know where you're getting your info from :(

is that good enough ??

[NuclearCrap]

Just to dispel this, you cant run these cards in SLI.

These dual-cored 6600GTs can be SLI'ed. :)


I just wish it had a bigger hard drive, and I had some money to get it.


I can run Lost Coast at max settings on my 7800GT.

Hehe, if you have money to buy a 7800 then you can buy the X360, unless your lying about the 7800.........

[werty]

No, its not. My PS2 has 80 and I need more ;)



I can run Lost Coast at max settings on my 7800GT.
what for may i ask? to me even 20 gigs is absurd. what could you possible want to store on it other than game saves?:confused:

[Solstice]

oh dear

See http://www.nvidia.com/object/IO_27509.html nVidia's STATEMENT ON THE 33% FASTER
The 512GTX has a faster GPU.

DOn't know where you're getting your info from

is that good enough ??

I think I misunderstood your statement earlier. I thought that you were stating that the 7800GTX512 is 33% faster in games, which it is not. Just has a faster core clock. My mistake :)


These dual-cored 6600GTs can be SLI'ed.

Ah, didnt know that. Up until now, all of those dual-GPU cards have been un SLI-able.


Hehe, if you have money to buy a 7800 then you can buy the X360, unless your lying about the 7800.........

I can assure you that I dont. College aint cheap ;). If youd like I can get you a pic of the card if you dont believe me :)


what for may i ask? to me even 20 gigs is absurd. what could you possible want to store on it other than game saves?

I have backups of my games on it, so I didnt have to bring any originals with me to college.

[werty]

I have backups of my games on it, so I didnt have to bring any originals with me to college.
just buy a pre-modded version when it comes out, play your burnt games on dvdr's;)

[Matra et Alpine]

I think I misunderstood your statement earlier. I thought that you were stating that the 7800GTX512 is 33% faster in games, which it is not. Just has a faster core clock. My mistake :)
IF you'd followed the link given on the nVidia site, you'd have read ....
"delivers amazing performance on some of the most anticipated games of the holiday season, with a measured performance increase of 33% over the previous award-winning GeForce 7800 GTXii."
Confirming what had been said already that you didnt' believe. THey get the increase by improving the GPU and memory.

[Spastik_Roach]

Doom 3 with will only run on full ultra settings with a 512 mb card! HL2:The Lost Coast will probably be the same!

Graphics cards have MB's of memory now?

[Guest]

yes, most have either 128 or 256 mb of memory (igp's just leech from the rest of the pc's power)

EDIT:Whoops, My Sarcasm Scanner Was Off When I Posted!!!

[Blitz_]

Graphics cards have MB's of memory now?

:D u made ma day man, very funny.. lmfao

[Solstice]

IF you'd followed the link given on the nVidia site, you'd have read ....
"delivers amazing performance on some of the most anticipated games of the holiday season, with a measured performance increase of 33% over the previous award-winning GeForce 7800 GTXii."
Confirming what had been said already that you didnt' believe. They get the increase by improving the GPU and memory.

Well then, looks like I didnt misunderstand you. And no, you more than likely will not get any 33% difference in games. A press release from nVidia is not sufficient to prove this. Unless you can provide benchmarks showing a 33% increase in frame rates, then this is nothing more than marketing hype.

BTW, the 512 uses the same GPU as the normal 7800GTX (G70). The clock speed has just been increased.

[Matra et Alpine]

Well then, looks like I didnt misunderstand you. And no, you more than likely will not get any 33% difference in games. A press release from nVidia is not sufficient to prove this. Unless you can provide benchmarks showing a 33% increase in frame rates, then this is nothing more than marketing hype.
True BUT when marketeers are hyping ( trust me I've done it :) ) you don't' talk about "measured performance" :)
There press release is very specific.

BTW, the 512 uses the same GPU as the normal 7800GTX (G70). The clock speed has just been increased.
as cited.
Is there a take on your statement I'm missing ???

The 512 also has a new m/b which is very common when you up bus and clock speeds
See http://www.penstarsys.com/previews/graphics/nvidia/512_7800gtx/index.html for in-depth techie bits

[VtecMini]

My voodoo 2 3D accelerator had 12mb of memory. It was great in its day!

I've still got it somewhere...

[Matra et Alpine]

My voodoo 2 3D accelerator had 12mb of memory. It was great in its day!

I've still got it somewhere...
funny ! ME TOO :D

totally worthless of course !!!!!!!!!!!

[Juggs]

haha i remember i wanted a voodoo 2 soooo bad back in the day

[NuclearCrap]

Graphics cards have MB's of memory now?

Yep, and I have a feeling that they're getting into GB's of memory very soon. :)

[NuclearCrap]

Well then, looks like I didnt misunderstand you. And no, you more than likely will not get any 33% difference in games. A press release from nVidia is not sufficient to prove this. Unless you can provide benchmarks showing a 33% increase in frame rates, then this is nothing more than marketing hype.

BTW, the 512 uses the same GPU as the normal 7800GTX (G70). The clock speed has just been increased.

512mb (http://www.leadtek.com/3d_graphic/winfast_px7800gtx_tdh_VE_2.html)

256mb (http://www.leadtek.com/3d_graphic/winfast_px7800gtx_tdhvivo_2.html)

[Guest]

How much does clockspeed actually matter? Because ive got an AGP one which sounds brilliant on paper, 256 Mb and a 500 Mhz clock, but wait for it, its a 9600 XT!

[Solstice]

What are those links supposed to show that I am missing Nuke?

[NuclearCrap]

What are those links supposed to show that I am missing Nuke?

I was just trying to conclude you guys' arguments about the card......now you see the difference.

[Matra et Alpine]

How much does clockspeed actually matter? Because ive got an AGP one which sounds brilliant on paper, 256 Mb and a 500 Mhz clock, but wait for it, its a 9600 XT!
The architecture on the GPU and memory management is MORE important than basic clock speed. MHz is only useful when comparig identical setups - like when overclocking :)

Nubmer of renderers, pipelines etc, lots of variables.

Especially with next gen highlight rendering really takes off and designers try to do multiple pass on single frames. THEN it will get interesting.

It's why benchmarks like 3DMark are useful and important and why games liek F.E.A.R are includign built-in benchmarks for showign real in-game performance.

[Matra et Alpine]

haha i remember i wanted a voodoo 2 soooo bad back in the day
you can have this one for the price of postage !!!
( which is 10 times more than the old POS is worht :D )

[Matra et Alpine]

What are those links supposed to show that I am missing Nuke?
Detailed numbers from an "independant" supplier of the cards ?
Clearly showing the improvement and the FIRST numbers are for an OVERCLOCKED 256. Which is pretty impressive :D My current card is Leadtek and they are excellent on support, replacing mine without question when it cooked a capacitor !!! ( and didnt' ask me once if I'd over-clocked ).

Their VIVO are excellent for vid capture for editing older masters not on digital. Thansk for the link as I dind't know they had produced a VIVO version of the GTX512. Hmmm, need to not feed the kids this month !!!!!

[Solstice]

Matra, would you mind posting your system? Sounds like you run some good stuff and Im curious to see.

[Matra et Alpine]

Matra, would you mind posting your system? Sounds like you run some good stuff and Im curious to see.
nah, my current is an AMD Shuttle at 2800+, 1Gb RAM, 500Mb disk with a Leadtek 4400 based VIVO. I'd bought and installed a more recent vid, but it overloaded the Shuttle supply so sold on quickly :( I needed the space and hadn't beeon serious sim'ing for a while. The release of GT Legends may drive me to upgrade and in that case I'll do my usual and go to the top and let it last for 2 years :D
Server is dual Pentium now with 1500Mb disk
2 x AMD 3200+ machines for daughters with 5800s

[NuclearCrap]

nah, my current is an AMD Shuttle at 2800+, 1Gb RAM, 500Mb disk with a Leadtek 4400 based VIVO. I'd bought and installed a more recent vid, but it overloaded the Shuttle supply so sold on quickly :( I needed the space and hadn't beeon serious sim'ing for a while. The release of GT Legends may drive me to upgrade and in that case I'll do my usual and go to the top and let it last for 2 years :D
Server is dual Pentium now with 1500Mb disk
2 x AMD 3200+ machines for daughters with 5800s

Lol Matra you're my kinda guys, we both use AMD and nVidia card (especially Leadtek!! :D ) and both of us supports PC over consoles. :)

I'm guessing Solstice probably want my system specs also if he sees this post. Lol. :)

[Matra et Alpine]

Lol Matra you're my kinda guys, we both use AMD and nVidia card (especially Leadtek!! :D ) and both of us supports PC over consoles. :)

I'm guessing Solstice probably want my system specs also if he sees this post. Lol. :)
PS: well I also have a PS2 !

As was said before gameplay is important. So also is AVAILABILITY. So the PS is great for TT Superbikes :D

[NuclearCrap]

PS: well I also have a PS2 !

As was said before gameplay is important. So also is AVAILABILITY. So the PS is great for TT Superbikes :D

It's great for GT4 too. :) I have 2 PS2s, one modded to play games available to certain countries, the other is there because my bro wants to take it into his room instead.

[werty]

Ridiculous

i just got back from Walmart and there is already a line for the 360!:eek:

10 hours before it comes out!:eek:


so now i just realized i need to be at best buy at or before 12 tonight in order to beat the crowd...and then wait for 9 hrs:eek: :( :mad:

and its gonna be 40 degrees outside tonight:( :(

wish me luck!:o :)

[adamfraser]

Good Luck werty! You should run them all down in your Ford and get the first one! :p

[werty]

Good Luck werty! You should run them all down in your Ford and get the first one! :p
you know, thats not such a bad idea:D :p

[Matra et Alpine]

will you be on-line as soon as you've got it up and running and give us a commentary on it :D

How about on MSN and point your webcam at the telly and share the vid !!!!!

[werty]

will you be on-line as soon as you've got it up and running and give us a commentary on it :D

How about on MSN and point your webcam at the telly and share the vid !!!!!
yes sir! hehe

I plan on taking pics of the crowds tonight as well...:D

expect a full report tomorrow morning;) :)

[Juggs]

just an update...we got it on saturday. its got a hard drive, a wireless controller, and a head set. game hasnt come yet but its on the way :)

[NuclearCrap]

I'm gonna be pissed..........my BF2: Special Forces expansion pack comes out on the same day as X360 launch........goddammit how am I gonna get it? :( Hopefully that little GameStop near my school won't have a line as long as the one werty described.........I asked them this afternoon and they said only about 4 or 5 ppl reserved X360, but then I asked myself: What about the ppl that didn't reserve but still wants the system? Holy &()&*&$*(&#(*&@(@............ full report on X360 popularity in my area tomorrow.

[Rockefella]

I'm gonna be pissed..........my BF2: Special Forces expansion pack comes out on the same day as X360 launch........goddammit how am I gonna get it? :( Hopefully that little GameStop near my school won't have a line as long as the one werty described.........I asked them this afternoon and they said only about 4 or 5 ppl reserved X360, but then I asked myself: What about the ppl that didn't reserve but still wants the system? Holy &()&*&$*(&#(*&@(@............ full report on X360 popularity in my area tomorrow.
No worries. Bring this: http://www.inl.gov/featurestories/i/shotgun.jpg

[NuclearCrap]

No worries. Bring this: http://www.inl.gov/featurestories/i/shotgun.jpg

Nice, lol. :D :D :D

But I'm surprised that I didn't see anyone buying the X360, I guess not much ppl like it in this area. The store had the same amount of ppl as normal days. ;)