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whiteballz
02-20-2004, 03:24 AM
what would u guys girls say to what is a classic? like cult classics? or certian age restrictions?

DasModell
02-20-2004, 04:10 AM
yes .. to be considered a classic a car must be around 30 years old . but not all classic cars have historical value ..

Matra et Alpine
02-20-2004, 08:46 AM
yes .. to be considered a classic a car must be around 30 years old . but not all classic cars have historical value ..
Been waiting for me to respond I guess ?????:)

A classis is what you want it to be.

My A610 is a 'classic', it's factory RHD, was faster than Porsche and Ferrari of the day and was a forgotten sportscar in the UK.
But it's only ~10 years old - so it's not just age.

Matra's are classics because of thier styling lines ( and age ).
Early Bagheera's are unmistakenly French in their design.
3-seat abreast seating also makes a difference :)
They're cheap to buy even now - so it's not just price.

Anything that was something 'special' when it was produced can be a classic.

Morris Marina in the UK are now considered 'classics' - I think that's more to do with novelty and how few of them are left on the road as most borke, rusted or were hidden in embarrasment.
So it's not even beauty !! or good engineering !!! or exclusivity !!!!

Their are clssifications used in classic and especially historic rallying to define these terms in age-only reference, but that's a strange world :)

If the car is in 'any' way "unusual" then I think it's OK to describe it as 'classic'.

Fixing some date in time and saying before is classic and after isn't is silly ( in rallies it's 1974 ). They're now adding "post-historic" and a new sectino to allow everything but the GroupB cars to compete again. But these are competition rules, not general descriptions.

So an Edsel was probably a 'classic' 2 years after production :)
A new Porsche 9xx, Ferrari, Lambo, Pagani, TVR etc are all "modern classics' as they carry a cachet with the label.

My view and that of many in the car clubs I'm a member of .....

Another easy definition of classic could be ..... can you get an insurance compay cover under a 'classic car' policy.
They're a lot cheaper and have more guarantees on value in the event of total loss. All my cars are on classic policies, so I've a piece of paer proving they're classics :)

whiteballz
02-20-2004, 03:06 PM
thanx, so what your saying is basically, if the car is in any way abnormal, say the top of the range car, with huge amounts of respect and race/rally victorys, in some ways it would be considerd a classic?

Nildo
02-20-2004, 03:26 PM
When I use the term 'classic' in reference to a car I mean it is a car around 30 years old or more, but which people sill choose to drive today over a modern car, either to relive an experience, or because it is still the equal of modern cars in the class. Or any reason. Like a Lotus Elan. Or a car which people restore due to a certain something it has, like the Jaguar/Eagle e-type. Or because of pedigree and history, like the Ford GT and Ferrari 250 GTO.

whiteballz
02-20-2004, 03:50 PM
i might be the only unsure subaru fan in here, because i odnt know where my beloved 22b fits, 400 were made, niki grist and colin mcrae were given the first 2 off the roller, and the car has an extremely interesting history and many many race wins! its handmade, etc not 2 expensive considering it could knock off many a italian and german sports cars! not 2 mention other jap pocket rockets, it wouldnt stand a chance in a straight line againt a skyline or supra, but because its so small and light awd 2.2 litre its accel is astronimical! 0-100 4 flat. this is an amazing feat by subaru. and im MY books should be a classic, even if its not in the same classic class as the e type or 250. ( and the dino beautiful car)

Matra et Alpine
02-20-2004, 04:18 PM
to relive an experience
Best explanatino of why the Morris Marina can be a classic'.
An experience !!!! Never a good one, but memorable.
I hope there aren't any Marina owners here :)

As you've said Nildo, a 'classic' is defined in MANY different ways.
A nice, simple summary.
Almost all cars can become classics.
The worst and the best :)

Matra et Alpine
02-20-2004, 04:23 PM
its handmade
Nice car, but I think it's stretching to suggest it is handmade.
Bentley's Aston's TVR's, Morgan's are handmade :)
It is 'tuned'. Many of it's parts come off the same mass production line as the run-of-the-mill Scoobies.
It don't think it will be a current classic - but will carry a lot of kudos.
It may become a classic if they can get back winning rallies :)
In 20 years time, those that aren't wrapped around trees will be classics for sure.
( Using my suggseted simple test, call an insurance company and ask to put it on a Classic Car policy ?? )

henk4
02-21-2004, 01:54 AM
In Holland the road tax authority uses a very simple definition. Anything over 25 years old is considered a classic and 100% exempted from road tax. In combination with the rule that having a company car means that 20% of its selling price has to be added to your income tax, this has resulted in a surge in the use of daily usable classics such as the DS, Jag MkII and the likes, as the original selling price could be used for income tax purposes.

I am writing this while in Romania and part of my transport takes place in cars like the Dacia 1310, of which production ceased not so long ago. Elderly europeans will remember this car as the Renault 12, which in its original shape might be a classic, but certainly not as the Dacia. The same goes for the Fiat 124 and the ubiquitous Lada/Zhiguli.

Matra et Alpine
02-21-2004, 05:41 AM
In Holland the road tax authority uses a very simple definition. Anything over 25 years old is considered a classic and 100% exempted from road tax.
In the UK we had this and after the first year there was a change of government.
New government didn't like the idea because it lost them revenue, so they froze the dates.
So cars built before January 1973 are tax exempt as "Historic Vehicles", anything after that is full road tax. Last year was when my Bagheeras would have become tax exempt if they'd retained the rolling 25 year rule of the origiinal law :(
It shows the crass stupidiy of our current govenrment and their willingness to tax the motorist as much as they can get away with !!

Returning to the main theme... the British government defines a car built before 1973 as
HISTORIC VEHICLE.
A slightly different defintion for the "what's a classic" question.
( But this one is borne from greed )

Nildo
02-21-2004, 03:10 PM
Historic Vehicle, eh? Still, that's not 'classic', is it? It's like this, an egg, milk, flour, sugar and butter are most of what's in a cake, but by themselves they are not a cake. What makes a cake is information and method combined with the ingredients. Similarly a classic is an older vehicle, but more than that, must have some degree of value added. The value, as I mentioned before, could take a variety of forms. It could be sentimental, like peoples attatchment to the Mini, a retro thing, like old VW Beetles and Combi's or a historic value, like the Ford GT.

Falcon500
02-21-2004, 06:24 PM
Historic Vehicle, eh? Still, that's not 'classic', is it? It's like this, an egg, milk, flour, sugar and butter are most of what's in a cake, but by themselves they are not a cake. What makes a cake is information and method combined with the ingredients. Similarly a classic is an older vehicle, but more than that, must have some degree of value added. The value, as I mentioned before, could take a variety of forms. It could be sentimental, like peoples attatchment to the Mini, a retro thing, like old VW Beetles and Combi's or a historic value, like the Ford GT.
I actually agree with that fully but for examplemy old mans studebaker cruisers even in top condition they wouldent be worth much...why because people forget them....fasted time at the most famous annaul race in 1965 just doesnt make great memories.
In australia the historic rego laws are if a cars 30 years old it can be put under historic rego in a club some restrictionsapply but its saves you muiltible $$$$ in rego my XY qualifies for historicrego...imconsdiering putting it under that kind of rego...also my decision is helpedby the fact i dont want to drive it every day.

Batmobile_Turbo
02-21-2004, 07:09 PM
i'd say, any car that was superb that is not made anymore. things that are older than 25-30 years old that were peices of crap i wouldn't call them classics.

henk4
02-22-2004, 01:32 AM
... The value, as I mentioned before, could take a variety of forms. It could be sentimental, like peoples attatchment to the Mini, a retro thing, like old VW Beetles and Combi's or a historic value, like the Ford GT.

For sentimental reasons then every car has classic potential, and the judgement whether a car is a classic becomes very subjective. Does it depend on which people have this sentimental attachment? How many individuals are needed to add up for classic status? It seems that even the already mentioned Morris Marina, always considered to be a real duck, is gaining some status, the Allegro might follow soon. Crisis might be surprised to hear that unmolested Citroen 2CV's are already commanding higher prices than when they were new.
In short there is no objective definition of a classic car, and may be that's good all the same.

Falcon500
02-22-2004, 02:48 AM
It seems that even the already mentioned Morris Marina, always considered to be a real duck, is gaining some status.
We had a leyland marina same car diffrent badge and engine they shoe horned a 6 into it which was very unreliableand had a golfball for a bonnet catch makeing the frequent maintinece a real issue...only other thing their reknownfor is doing good burnouts.

Matra et Alpine
02-22-2004, 07:04 AM
We had a leyland marina same car diffrent badge and engine they shoe horned a 6 into it which was very unreliableand had a golfball for a bonnet catch makeing the frequent maintinece a real issue...only other thing their reknownfor is doing good burnouts.
No matter what was tried that car was awful.
UK magazine Cars and Car Conversions ( usually known as triple-C ) always had project cars. Build a rally car. Buid a race car etc.
So they had a Moriris Marina rally car project.
It was the ONLY project they packed in half way through after only a few events.
Everything kept breaking and blowing up.
It was a disaster.
A car built to a price ( and a price set to low to be viable ) !!

crisis
02-22-2004, 10:15 PM
For sentimental reasons then every car has classic potential, and the judgement whether a car is a classic becomes very subjective. Does it depend on which people have this sentimental attachment? How many individuals are needed to add up for classic status? It seems that even the already mentioned Morris Marina, always considered to be a real duck, is gaining some status, the Allegro might follow soon. Crisis might be surprised to hear that unmolested Citroen 2CV's are already commanding higher prices than when they were new.
In short there is no objective definition of a classic car, and may be that's good all the same.
I agree with most of your comments and many sentiments that have been expressed. The term classic is thrown around quite a bit. In strict terms it may pertain to a car over a certain age but in more broader terms I think it basically comes down to a car that stands out for a particular reason. Something about it sets it apart from the thousands of other cars that are pumped out yearly. For this reason I would include the much lauded WRX, the irritatingly adored R thirty whatever Skylines and the Supra. It obvioulsy pertains to a wealth of other esoteria.
On the subject of unmolested 2CVs, I find the term perplexing as I cant imagine anyone wanting to molest something like that.

henk4
02-23-2004, 01:34 AM
On the subject of unmolested 2CVs, I find the term perplexing as I cant imagine anyone wanting to molest something like that.

This is not about anyone, but about a thing, which is called rust. ;)

crisis
02-23-2004, 09:50 PM
This is not about anyone, but about a thing, which is called rust. ;)
I read an account of someone who owned one of these things who lost it due to the combination of water and air. At least they have the decency to rust away.

henk4
02-23-2004, 10:50 PM
I read an account of someone who owned one of these things who lost it due to the combination of water and air. At least they have the decency to rust away.
Agreed, but they can be saved with little financial outlay. (if you wish to save them of course).

Nildo
02-29-2004, 09:23 AM
I wonder if the Alfa Arna will ever be regarded as a classic? Surely it must be recognised summarily as the most unbelievable heap of crap a car company has attempted to force on the public in the last 5 decades. Is it worth anything for that?

NoOne
02-29-2004, 09:30 AM
I can't speak for everyone, but I personally get a good laugh out of crisis' and henk4's constant bantor, whether it be over French cars, deisel engines or whatever, it is thoroughly enjoyable. ;)

henk4
02-29-2004, 09:46 AM
I wonder if the Alfa Arna will ever be regarded as a classic? Surely it must be recognised summarily as the most unbelievable heap of crap a car company has attempted to force on the public in the last 5 decades. Is it worth anything for that?

I think similar words could have been said about the Morris Marina, which is gaining some cult status in the UK, but indeed if you find satistaction in owning the worst car ever, the Arna would be a perfect choice.

henk4
02-29-2004, 09:46 AM
I can't speak for everyone, but I personally get a good laugh out of crisis' and henk4's constant bantor, whether it be over French cars, deisel engines or whatever, it is thoroughly enjoyable. ;)

much obliged :)

crisis
02-29-2004, 04:32 PM
I can't speak for everyone, but I personally get a good laugh out of crisis' and henk4's constant bantor, whether it be over French cars, deisel engines or whatever, it is thoroughly enjoyable. ;)
Well so far he has me begrudgingly accepting diesel cars and their merits. But I stand firm on French cars and 2CVs.

Falcon500
02-29-2004, 05:38 PM
I think similar words could have been said about the Morris Marina, which is gaining some cult status in the UK, but indeed if you find satistaction in owning the worst car ever, the Arna would be a perfect choice.
That sounds like our local Leyland P76 which is regaureded as the worst car australia ever produced! Despite its quirky looks,its poor build quality and total rear instability the cars will live on not only im memory but in the fleash too! im debateing wether this is a good thing or not the car bad as it was wasnt all bad....It was incredibly light for its large contruction (similar size tomy falcon and weighing about 1300kg v8 man where my falcon simialry equiped would weigh about 1400) it had a tweaked version of the rover all alloy v8 which displaced 4.4 liters, it could fit a44 gallon drum in the boot and youcould still close the boot :D what killed the car...quality issues when leyland pulledfunds and then sufferd no end of interior woes.
And so you know what the car looks like i have a picture of 2 restored ones and a modifed one all owned by the same person.

Matra et Alpine
02-29-2004, 08:02 PM
Well so far he has me begrudgingly accepting diesel cars and their merits. But I stand firm on French cars and 2CVs.
Some French cars are fantastic.
A bit like the lead up to the Oscars, I'm going to post lots of pics of Alpines and Matras to convince you to change your mind :)

crisis
02-29-2004, 10:36 PM
it could fit a44 gallon drum in the boot and youcould still close the boot :D what killed the car...quality issues when leyland pulledfunds and then sufferd no end of interior woes.
And so you know what the car looks like i have a picture of 2 restored ones and a modifed one all owned by the same person.
I want to know which drunken marketing exec told which junior that "market research shows 8 out of every ten Australian drivers have indicated they will need to be able to fit a 44 gallon drum in the boot". The kid obvioulsy didnt get the joke and we got the car. Apparently it had a pretty good , for the day , alloy V8. I read something about it once and I think it was as much the fact that Leyland dropped the ball and did not back it up as well as the problems with quality. It wasnt really that bad looking in comparison with what was around at the time.

Falcon500
03-01-2004, 03:22 AM
Well they got a worse wrap then they deserved....the boot idea was an after thought thats why its rear 1/4s and taillights sort of dont go with the high boot line they changed that at the last minute...aprently they wanted to appeal to farmers...sort of a family cruiser you could work in. I wonder if they had work experiance back then :D just thinking out loud.
Mid way through the sales of the car leyland Australia went bust and went home with their tails between their legs they practically thew away the cars formere pittance what they where worth (how ever debatable that was) to fill in the debts that had...funny thing was it was targeted at uppermarket family with things that should appeal to farmers but for the bargen prices they where worth most farmerswent bueaty and sangged themselves something they could drive to church in yet carry drums and hay in the back! could account for their high survival rate also....

Nildo
03-07-2004, 09:03 AM
Nothing wrong with deisel cars. Really there are going to be more and more performance deisels as time goes by (European marques are taking them very seriously indeed) and they are improving greatly. Also I have to say there are some pretty good French cars. Maybe they are the exception, not the rule, but there are some good ones. The Renault Clio Williams is still a fantastic hatch, for example.

Matra et Alpine
03-07-2004, 11:37 AM
Renault Clio Williams is still a fantastic hatch, for example.
Now repalced by the Sport ( especially the Lightened version ) and compeltely beaten up by the V6.

Buy a V6 and invest in underwear manufacturers :)

henk4
03-07-2004, 11:40 AM
Buy a V6 and invest in underwear manufacturers :)

Do you wet your pants in those?

Matra et Alpine
03-07-2004, 11:51 AM
Do you wet your pants in those?
Worse than that.
They are THE scraiest car I've ever drive.
The wheel base is just too short for all that rear-end weight and power.
I got a test drive when they were first launched - I was thinking of swapping for the Alpine.

The only swapping that car wants to do is ends !
I came off throttle mid roundabout and spent the rest of it sideways trying to get it's ass to come back in and not spin out.
It was great fun but guaranteed to spit you and hurt the bank balance :(
I passed.

I'd love to get a shot on track with it, but don't know anyone with one and nobody's ever turned up at trackday (yet) :(

henk4
03-07-2004, 12:12 PM
Worse than that.
They are THE scraiest car I've ever drive.
The wheel base is just too short for all that rear-end weight and power.
I got a test drive when they were first launched - I was thinking of swapping for the Alpine.

The only swapping that car wants to do is ends !
I came off throttle mid roundabout and spent the rest of it sideways trying to get it's ass to come back in and not spin out.
It was great fun but guaranteed to spit you and hurt the bank balance :(
I passed.

I'd love to get a shot on track with it, but don't know anyone with one and nobody's ever turned up at trackday (yet) :(\\

it sounds so simple, never come off throttle, but in reality the fact that we are not alone on the road spoils a lot. ;)

Matra et Alpine
03-07-2004, 12:26 PM
\\

it sounds so simple, never come off throttle, but in reality the fact that we are not alone on the road spoils a lot. ;)
Unfortunately, like all rear engine rwd, the throttle pushes you into understeer :(.

henk4
03-07-2004, 01:11 PM
Unfortunately, like all rear engine rwd, the throttle pushes you into understeer :(.

There must be an equilibrium somewhere??

Matra et Alpine
03-07-2004, 04:18 PM
There must be an equilibrium somewhere??
Yep, but the balance point is VERY critical.
It was VERY twitchy and wanted to jump out the rear or push out the front.
Very hard to keep it in the very narrow band of equilibrium. Only Porsche have ever managed to get it near right IMHO and they've spend 50 years playing with the dynamics :)
I susequently watched some of the track racing in the V6 Cup.
I was glad to see that it wasn't justt my driving (:)) as their isn't a race where someone doesn't do a big rear exit on a corner and almost everyone gets it well sideways.

henk4
03-08-2004, 12:49 AM
Why do you compare it to Porsche, which has a rear engine, and as far as I know the V6 in the Clio occupies the place normally taken by the rear seats, so it's a mid engine :confused:

Matra et Alpine
03-08-2004, 03:20 AM
Why do you compare it to Porsche, which has a rear engine, and as far as I know the V6 in the Clio occupies the place normally taken by the rear seats, so it's a mid engine :confused:
It was as a matter of comparison of handling.
Early 911s were extrememly twitchy and a nightmare when unstable.
( I had the pleasure of a ride in the co-drivers seat when I was in my first flush of competition ) They made Escorts feel like they drove on rails :)
The Clio V6 is transverse and atop the gearbox/final-drive ( mild offset ) and is almost on top of the rear wheels. So I agree it's mid ( by a few cm !! )
New 911s, DESPITE the worse engine position, are better handling than the Clio V6. It was as a matter of comparing that 'point of equilibrium' that I drew it. IMHO the 911 is an order of magnitude bigger :) (now)

henk4
03-08-2004, 03:24 AM
I knew about the horror stories of first 911's, I think in particular the first 911S (with the nice wheels) had a very bad reputation. I also know how they managed to tame them.
A more similar car could have been the Renault Turbo (5-based) or the 206T16, but probably there have been too few around to gain any reputation. Probably the Clio the is second Corvair: "Unsafe at any speed", as Nader put it.

Matra et Alpine
03-08-2004, 03:36 AM
It was as a matter of comparison of handling.
coulnd't find original footage I had of V6 races, but did find some other nice stuff.
OK, it's in the wet and it's at the start, but watch the number of exits backwards by V6s :) This clip is worth it for the sounds. I love V6 :)
http://www.autovisie.nl/download/renaultcliov6sport/magnycours_014.asf

It's noticable that the throttle is NOT being pushed until the car is well past apex. I think the driver is sensibly giving the car some respect :)

henk4
03-08-2004, 04:10 AM
Very nice, indeed the guy is very careful. Thanks :p

Matra et Alpine
03-08-2004, 04:31 AM
I knew about the horror stories of first 911's, I think in particular the first 911S (with the nice wheels) had a very bad reputation. I also know how they managed to tame them.
A more similar car could have been the Renault Turbo (5-based) or the 206T16, but probably there have been too few around to gain any reputation. Probably the Clio the is second Corvair: "Unsafe at any speed", as Nader put it.
Don't get me wrong, it is still a VERY nice car to drive.
Just not in the wet - I'm in Scotland :(
The Corvair was a disaster, the wheel-under characteristics of the imp and 6 times the weight - why didnb't anyone see that was bad ??
The original Renualt Turbo2 ( Alpine ) was a rear engine, but such a small size it wasn't as bad.
Still wasn't able to compete with only 2wd :(
Ragnotti drove one at Mount Stuart last year, beautiful sound AND look.
I must try and post all the pics from that day - some GREAT cars :)
Brother still has his T16 and it's another class !
Like the RS200 ( and the Integrale ) the spaceframe chassis means excellent weight, distribution and performance.
Since joining UCP I've discussed so many things, I see a visit to brother over summer and convincing him to get hos cars out of the garage and onto the track :) If he agrees, I'll have a great story to share !!

henk4
03-08-2004, 04:34 AM
The Corvair was a disaster, the wheel-under characteristics of the imp and 6 times the weight - why didnb't anyone see that was bad ??

May be because the Beetle had the same concept?


Since joining UCP I've discussed so many things, I see a visit to brother over summer and convincing him to get hos cars out of the garage and onto the track :) If he agrees, I'll have a great story to share !!

Name the place and we might come over!

Matra et Alpine
03-08-2004, 04:37 AM
Name the place and we might come over!
I'm thinking the other way :)
Get the cars running and do a couple of the European tracks.
If it comes about, UCPers will be the first to know :)

henk4
03-08-2004, 04:45 AM
I'm thinking the other way :)
Get the cars running and do a couple of the European tracks.
If it comes about, UCPers will be the first to know :)


How convenient ;) There is a very interesting historic festival in Zandvoort around september 25th. Zolder or Spa or the Ring would be nice too. The Ring is open to the public, one lap will cost you about 20 Euro's or so.

Matra et Alpine
03-08-2004, 04:54 AM
How convenient ;) There is a very interesting historic festival in Zandvoort around september 25th. Zolder or Spa or the Ring would be nice too. The Ring is open to the public, one lap will cost you about 20 Euro's or so.Nearly took in the 'ring about 10 years ago whilst on 6 week European vacation with the family. Didn't and wish I had :(
Spa was one that was on my mind.
Zandvoort, hmm, what state is the old circuit in ? Any links/pointers to the festival ?
I'm also trying to arrange a weekend tour including lap and display at Mount Stuart. But that may now be next year. Idea is to combine both my interests and have a French tour with Alpine and Matra invited.
It's looking a busy year with a dozen rallies and more trackdays.
I just need to get the A610 breathing again :(

henk4
03-08-2004, 05:11 AM
http://www.circuit-zandvoort.nl/


but this is in Dutch. The festival has also been announced in recent Motor Sport isssues. The old circuit was shortened in the eigthies to about 2.5 km, but has recently (3-4 years ago) been lengthened to 4.3 km. The main straight and the famous Tarzan corner are still there.
Spa is no longer public road. There is now a bypass along the Raidillon, which I hope you also took when it was still open. It's like facing a wall, and pictures really don't do credit to its steepness. The direct road from Francorchamps to Stavelot is also closed.

RaceStudebakers
03-18-2007, 01:28 PM
For sentimental reasons then every car has classic potential, and the judgement whether a car is a classic becomes very subjective. Does it depend on which people have this sentimental attachment? How many individuals are needed to add up for classic status?
<SNIPPED>
In short there is no objective definition of a classic car, and may be that's good all the same.

I agree with you, there's NO objective, (well, except for what certain pompous "richard heads" think :rolleyes: ), as to what denotes or what qualifies as a "real" classic. In fact, I REALLY prefer my brother's way-o-thinking, he says, "There's an ass for every seat.".....

Oh, and to the poster who thinks nobody ever remembers Studebakers, you are VERY wrong Sir.... I wouldn't try that statement on ANY of the 15,000 members of the international Studebaker organization. Plus, I get MANY more people looking at and "remembering" their Studebakers than ANY Ford I've ever had, at ANY car gathering... Sheesh...... :mad:

Old Sage
03-23-2007, 09:35 PM
To join the vcca vintage chevrolet club of america, the car has to be 25 years old. The Ccca classic car club of america at last word was still holding to the pre-49 standard.

I can't speak toward non-american cars, but a certain uniqueness of the vehicle has something to do with a Classic in the US/Canada, though the term is pretty muddied-up these days. I don't look at a 1973 Granada or a 1982 Citation as classics (no offense to anyone who owns one). On the other hand, the 1980's black Grand National Buick probably will attain that status.

henk4
03-24-2007, 12:40 AM
I was at the opening concours of the Dutch Pioneer Automobile club which took place in 1956 or 1957. At that time only cars built before 1930 could register as classics......

Old Sage
03-27-2007, 12:45 AM
Henk, do you know if that club still exists? I'm curious what their year breakdown would be today.

henk4
03-27-2007, 06:05 AM
Henk, do you know if that club still exists? I'm curious what their year breakdown would be today.

yes they still exist

http://www.pionierautomobielenclub.nl/

Started in 1956
now all cars up till 1940 classify, 300 members, with 400 cars.

ozzie
03-31-2007, 01:01 AM
Does the forum think that a Corvette Stingray is a classic car.

Old Sage
03-31-2007, 01:52 AM
Good question.

I would vote for all of the pre-73 models.

henk4
03-31-2007, 09:31 AM
Does the forum think that a Corvette Stingray is a classic car.
In spite the large number built, yes.

Ferrer
03-31-2007, 10:24 AM
In spite the large number built, yes.
I don't think that it is fair to consider the number of cars produced a negative point. Other cars that have been produced in much greater numbers have undoubted classic status, regardless of the number of cars produced.