Ford BA GT

[Falcon500]

Well they are good cars they weigh in at the lighter end of 600 odd kilos 625 odd they were lighter then the minis and had about 4 more hp which is a lot when your playinmg with 60 odd. My old man has ownd once sine they were just off new about 71 i think it was he bought his origonal one was rolled (not by him) and hes on to his second one its been painted three times gone through three engines 2 gear boxes and its still think its on its origonal diff not bad for a car made in 1969 you have to admit for those of you who can understand imperial it gets 41 mpg (near enough to 9 liters per 100 kays in the new speak) and with its current little motor it pulls nearly 90 hp and was tuned by the local rally ace at the time (ill find out his name again) and it can eaisly wind off its 120mph clock wopnderful little car!

[fpv_gtho]

it sure sounds the part. theres porbably people out there that ouwld think of putting something like a blown 302 and a shortened 9 inch up the back, just for laughs

[pato]

i doubt a 351 would fit in the engine bay, but there are a few datsusn 1200's going around with 13b turbo rotaries in em and they go real quick

[fpv_gtho]

well they'd be light enough for a 13b. rotaries are too much like a turbo: they need to spool up but once they do theyre excellent. and who said anything about trying to but a 351 in? theyre only a small block motor anyway

[Falcon500]

Well my old man has pics of one that used to get around at canberras 1/8 mile it had a 350 chev in it it wasnt a road rgisterd vehical (it was more like a super sedan) and it was a bitch to drive but damn fast it done low 10s i think.

[fpv_gtho]

how much power was the engine pumping out? was it still at a level where its drivability wasnt sacrificed, cause 400hp out of a chev350 would make a small datsun do the quarter pretty quick

[Falcon500]

The engine could of been bog stock but the weight bias to the front would be fonmial the car just wasnt built to have that kind of an engine thats wht it would of been a pig to try. And try as you may without major mjor surger it will always be pig.

[fpv_gtho]

well i guess theyre the problems youve just got to live with if u want something as ridiculous as a small block v8 in something with such a small wheelbase and little weight

[Falcon500]

Thats about the size of it though as i said there are some small (youll more likly call them errrr mid sized if you wanna get picky) cars that react quite well to it like the cortina and capris most tornas arnt to bad that way (unless its an lj with a chev thats asking for a bit of touble youll go holden motor for that) Dastun 240,260 and 280Z are quite good with v8s in them. And there is also the very small triupmhs of england (the stag and TR-8) that came out with the all alloy 3.5 V8 their both tiny 2 seaters they dont go too bad either.

[fpv_gtho]

those triumphs would go like a rocket. one of my friends reckons holdens semi trailing arm irs is better than fords double wishbone irs and control blade irs, just because he knows someone with a triumph that has the semi trailing arm setup fitted and it "works". maybe next time im trying to convince him otherwise ill tell him where the wheels pivot towards on the holden irs

[Falcon500]

Why would anyone bother puting a semi traling arm set up on it anway? it would be expensive and take a hell of a long time to do. And also there is the fact that in the car it origonaly comes from (the commadore) it gets a firm thrashing around corners by the falcon so all that proves is that holden cant preperly set up their suspension for the commadore if what your friend says is right.

[fpv_gtho]

well my friends probably just comparing it to the cars original setup or a live axle setup

[Falcon500]

Well fair enoguh but still why would you?

[pato]

the datto's with 13B's can run 9's if well tuned but ppl dont go much further maybe high 8's cause they are to dangerous aerodynamically and the chassi cant handle big power even with a decent roll cage

[fpv_gtho]

Originally posted by Falcon500
Well fair enoguh but still why would you?

people with money do crazy things at times

[pato]

yeh and they get other ppl to drive their cars cause they dont wanna die

[fpv_gtho]

if we were talking about a bmw 760Li, id agree with you, but getting someone to drive you around in your triumph? thats a new low

[Falcon500]

Whats the pointof building it if you arnt going to drive it? And why drop a roatarie in a datsun its waste of a perfectly good datsun.

[fpv_gtho]

rotaries arent that bad, theyre just suited to the cars theyre pulled out of. in your opinion, which would be the waist in this scenario: a rotary powered HQ kingswood

[pato]

Originally posted by fpv_gtho
if we were talking about a bmw 760Li, id agree with you, but getting someone to drive you around in your triumph? thats a new low

no i mean getting a proffesional drag driver to do all the 1/4miles

[fpv_gtho]

wheres the fun in that though. which sounds better: I can get MY triumph down the quarter in 12 seconds, or MY triumph does the quarter in 12 seconds?

[Falcon500]

eaxctly do it yourself or dont bother.

[pato]

i agree completley im just saying wat some ppl do, mostly to advertise their buisness like panel beating or performance shop or somthing

[Falcon500]

Well thats what a few bloke i know done ill fix your car for less if you put this sticker on for example.

[pato]

its a good idea, he gets the name of his buisness out on the streets and gets a dedicated customer who is happy he saved a few bucks and got a kool sticker aswell

[Falcon500]

thats about the size of it i can get the heads and exaust done cheaper if i get an ACT heads sticker on the car.

[pato]

yeh makes ur car stand out and ppl think ur sponserd or somthing

[Falcon500]

also saves me a wad.

[fpv_gtho]

thats what some of these people do when they wanna seriously rice up their car

[Falcon500]

Yeah well a lot of people who want to rice up cars have no money anyway so they have to buy a shopping trolly (or a girls car) and then do gay modifacations too (which they call street style) they asociate a loud farting noise as the sound of power and brings me to rember one of the local bitch boys with a toyota hatchback of some description who removed the little weather strip from the back window (the one that keeps rain of the back window on hatches and wagons) so hey could put on his gay alloy wing and he didnt bother filling in the holes left from the shield so he has half a dozen rusty marks with holes all over it! What tard.

[fpv_gtho]

the sad part is once they start modifying them, realistically theyre still worth shit and still some poeple ask in upwards of $40000 for some riced up lancers and corrolas with minor mods

[Falcon500]

we have all the poofs from the semi private school st eddys come in and look at lancers and they laugh at me and the other bloke why because we earn our moeny instead of digging through daddys wallet. But a lot of them end off in slighly used lancers we get off quantus (mitsu has a deal with them). The bad thing is why their being rude to us we cant (shouldent) be rude back though if you play it smart you can make them realises you are having a lend of them. Like the bloke who was going ho much are you getting payed $13 odd an hour "i think you should be payed more" "well if you want to you can ask my boss" "who is he then?" "well hes a bloke called bill lilly and dont worry if you dont know what he looks like his face is on the back window of all the cars" "uhhh i dont want too" :D halfwits

[fpv_gtho]

bloody pricks with their trust accounts.

[Falcon500]

I wish my parents were swimming in money too i would of had enough money to fix the XY up alternativly get somthing i would of liked instead of the sunny. 240Z would of done nicly lol:D

[fpv_gtho]

wouldnt we all. i woundt mind trying to stick a boss290 in something like an XBGT body but it would be pretty front heavy so id probably balance it out with a 120L droptank. either that or the same car with a 750-780cfm carb, but that would give it pretty crappy fuel consumption

[Falcon500]

it does believe me with th big holley but well worth it. id rahter an XR6T motor in a cortina or an rb35 motor in one of the old skyline bodys ahh the fun you could have with money :(

[fpv_gtho]

its getting to sound like the philosophy behind the shelby cobras, and i dint realise nissan made an rb35, i knew they had a vg30, vq30 and vq35

[Falcon500]

i have no idea i thought they did but i couldent care less about nissans. Yeah its like putting an fj20 or an rb30det in the sunny :D

[fpv_gtho]

how much power did the rb30det make, about 150kw?

[Falcon500]

I actually have no idea i used to have a website with that info on my faveorites but it seems to of dissapred id say since the fj20 made aropund 160 hp maybey 180-200 hp maybey so prebly around the mark you said.

[fpv_gtho]

the engine mustve been running low boost, cause fords doratec 3.0L v6 gets 150kw naturally asprirated, and the rb25det gets 206kw

[Falcon500]

Dont forget that these motors you comparing it too are ment for comletly differnt applications that v6 is ment for mid sized cars and isnt not ment for performace abnd the rb25det is supposed to be a very good performance motor as well.

[fpv_gtho]

all true, but i chose the rb25det cause like the rb30det, its a single turbo setup yet its half a litre smaller. fords duratec id say would have less torque than the rb30det, its twisting about 270nm i think

[Falcon500]

Its a throw of the dice their all motors we as individuals dont know too much about im guessing they are arioudnt he same as the v6 duratec but its the way these engine go about it and the vehicals their in the make all the differnce.

[fpv_gtho]

well thats probably the reason why ford offer 2 different heads on thier MOD v8's, to suit trucks, large and medium cars

[Falcon500]

Yeah thats how they got 220 kw out of the au they used the freer flowing manifold ands and throttle body from the trucks in america.

[fpv_gtho]

yeah i also heard they put gt40 heads on it or it couldve been the explorer ones

[Falcon500]

yep gt40 heads came with the 185 kw motor the yanks had cast iron head untill the motor was reaplced in 95.

[fpv_gtho]

the yanks must have something with all alloy and all iron construction or sumtin. theyve got it as well with holdens ecotec v6. an exception to that is the iron and alluminium 4.6L and 5.4L blocks with alluminium heads.

[Falcon500]

Well all the heads on their windsors ecluding saleen and cobra and other specials they used cast iron right to the end of the mustangs. A popular after market modifaction for their windsors are using GT40 heads.

[fpv_gtho]

i guess i should be glad then that ford australia developed the alloy head for the 4.1 in the early 80's

[Falcon500]

Well think of it this way think how many mustang v8s the americans would of sold and then think how many millions extra it would of cost them to put alloy heads on all the v8s and that would of reflected onto the consumers.

[fpv_gtho]

well when the mustang finally got the v8 back, america was getting over the oil issue, so the allow head woulve given better economy and thus, made it viable for ford to out it back into the model range slightly earlier. the huge market for the mustangs in america wouldve easily justified the development costs. if it costs so much to develop an alloy head, then why did ford australia bother doing it to their aging 6?

[Falcon500]

Assuiming the redesgined the head if they just made an alloy version of the same head there would of been little to no change. ford changed the head (with the help of mazda which became a subsidry of ford around that time) to improve power and fuel eccomy and at the time they were the most popular family car so it was finacily viable if you pay any attention they made no changed other then pllutiion gear to the v8 range of clevlands because they wernt selling to well and the cost it would of taken to develop alloy heads and the like wasnt justified.

[fpv_gtho]

true but ford last year spent 5 million updating the current 6, which included a variable vct in place of the 2 stage system, minor redesigning of the block and pretty much a new cylinder head. in a market like america where they can sell more f150's than australia can sell cars in general they make their money back quickly

[Falcon500]

They also go about things differntly like I hear that every 6 months they do a little work on all their cars and they have full redigns every couple of years. And the iron head windsor was doing what they needed so there was not really any need top change they had the 4.6 onthe back burner any way.

[fpv_gtho]

well holden like to have something different with their commodore on a yearly basis with the series 2 upgrades, but i havent heard anything about 6 month upgrades. apparently though the platform for the current crown victoria has been around for a while and people have complained that its way overdue for an all new model

[Falcon500]

Well the crown vic is due for an upgrade but ford claimed it was engineringly impossible or somthnig like that i think the crwon vic is on its last legs im under the impression theyll drop the car soon. The good thing about owning a commadore is there are heaps of nice looking stock mags that are availbe from wrecked/modifed cars because heolden have a new set every year as you said. I personly find the stock mage in general look better thena lot of the shit that people put on them.

[fpv_gtho]

some journo was complaining about holdens approach with their new set of rims every year, saying that before the VY2, the sv8 looked pretty good and now the VY2 sv8 is out the VY looks dated. i wouldnt be surprised if once bush and howard work out a free trade deal ford america give us the money to ship them falcons or something deal along those lines.

[Falcon500]

we can only hope theyd be a good replacement for the crown vic. And maybey well get cheaper mustangs and other such good stuff out of it.

[Nildo]

Maybe they can improve the build quality on the 'stangs though. Some of them have been pretty scary.

[Falcon500]

Well id be willing to own one even if the quality issues arnt solved i had a real close look at the onwers car of gregorys ford here and it was a flash bit gear had a bit of a sit and heard it run marelous cars and i hope we get the supercharged models too. It would be nicer if ford (and most other american companys) would fix their quality issues at their own door step.

[fpv_gtho]

im sure ford america would be willing to setup a mass production falcon plant in the states and a small production 'stang plant over here. its not exactly a fair trade, but thats the easiest way i can see to fix the quality, get us to build them. it would cut alot off the price of what the RHD mustangs we got were

[Falcon500]

Well also on that note if they do that then we could also export them to NZ and africa and other places nearby. Also then we could produce bits and peices to make it better for the RHD so there inst the reach or the cramped legroom of a converted model.

[fpv_gtho]

i dunno about the chances of fixing the legroom but as you say its on the converted model, but if that all went to plan as i said, it would be originally manufactured RHD and be built to ADR so ford australia wouldnt be putting $20000+ on the price to make it comply

[Falcon500]

Well hopefully they will be affordable and make ford aus a wad it sounds viable.

[fpv_gtho]

one thing going against them would be the cost per unit. it already is for the BA, compared to holdens CPU as they sell 3 times as many commodores

[Falcon500]

Well when holden bring out the new model with all its mod cons itll hurt their hip pockets a little more dont forget. And with this entier side of the world being able to be sent too i think thatll be a little more in favor for its production.

[fpv_gtho]

well with GM's ambitions of creating a world car thats world class, based on the chev ss/opel insignia/ve commodore, will it really be holdens pocket that gets hurt?

[Falcon500]

World cars mean cheaper prices but world cars all also look the same so not everyone will be happy with it prime example the new magna and lancers they are a hit in most european countrys but are a flop here. And your idea about their hip pocket not getting hurt anything is possible ford nearly killed holden in 87 GM had to bail them out of debt likewise holden nearly killed ford in 2002 its all a game who will win nobody knows?

[fpv_gtho]

well mitsubishi are aiming for a global design, something that when someone sees one of their cars they go "oh is that a mitsubishi?", when its turning out "uhh is that a mitsubishi?". GM mainly want to get something based on the commodore in practically all their markets and win back some market share.

[Falcon500]

well they have plenty of cars based on the commadore they are only selling well in one country and ok in the rest.

[fpv_gtho]

well what they want is the commodore to be known in more places than south africa and UAE where its the chev lumina. chev NA want it same with opel

[Falcon500]

Yeah well american dont like the lumina and their selling very poorly in africa.

[fpv_gtho]

ive heard they prety much own the market in south africa though

[Falcon500]

They like their 4 wheels drives over there they might be dominating the saloon sales but not much else and the small percentage that we are sending over there from our commadore range (less then 10%) is also shared with what we send over too NZ so i dont think their dominating much over there.

[fpv_gtho]

well a country like south africa, a 4x4 would be useful and practical. dont ford send the crown victoria there?

[LionTamer]

a v8 in a focus LOL. I guess you haven't heard that ford america have a production car that is a ford focus with a mustang engine. DUH

[fpv_gtho]

im convinced crisis isnt the idiot here. a V8 wouldnt fit in a Focus, not even the 3.9L from the Thunderbird

[crisis]

Originally posted by LionTamer
a v8 in a focus LOL. I guess you haven't heard that ford america have a production car that is a ford focus with a mustang engine. DUH
I said Wha?

[Falcon500]

mustang engine in a focus yeah right lol :D thats like saying ill put a dodge viper v10 in a neon it woulent be practical and it will be a pig to drive they wouldent do that from the factory.

[crisis]

Originally posted by LionTamer
a v8 in a focus LOL. I guess you haven't heard that ford america have a production car that is a ford focus with a mustang engine. DUH
Someone called me an idiot and I want to know how they found out.

[Falcon500]

you arnt an idiot disalusioned maybey (the holden red army supporter :p j/k) but most certanily not an idiot id like to see some proof on this v8 focus.

[LionTamer]

hey my mistake its not a production car YET. but for every1 that laughed at the idea of a v8 in a focus go here http://www.ford-v8-focus.com/. By the way people have fit bigger engines into smaller cars, i guess nobody has seen the vw bug with a 351 in it at eastern creek.

[Falcon500]

Ive seen a datsun 1000 with a 350 chev a cortina 60s model with a 429 and another with a 351 ive seen a capri with a 460 and one with a 400 chev and a mini with a 351 clevland. I havent seen the beetle in queastion no but the idea is older then I am what kind of rock do you think i live under ive been going to the 1/8 mile track since i was three and up untill it closed down when i was 12 ive seen many hundreds of cars like that and some other which are the stuff of ledgends like Norm Longfields "Streamliner" there isnt much new you can show me in that area

[LionTamer]

oi i wasnt talkn to u!!!!! I was talkn to every1 who laughed at the idea of fitting a v8 into a focus.

[falcon hell]

up in newcastle there is a old tiny little suzuki mighty boy ute with a 351 clevo in it so poping a 351 into a focus isnt nothing special

[LionTamer]

any1 can put an engine into a car its another thing if it comes out as a production car (even though its a prototype)

[falcon hell]

i think the power to weight will affect its production success though

[Falcon500]

Im assuming like maost cars built like that itll be a dog to drive like putting a small block in a 60s cortina it throws the weight distrabution out the windo makes it front heavey and takes a hell of a lot of enginering to make it all work and legal.

[fpv_gtho]

hey lion tamer, dunno if you noticed, but not only is the v8 focus only a racing conversion, but its an aftermarket kit rather than production which was what you were saying

[Falcon500]

Well when I tryed the web site it didnt work for me but i guessed most of that already ty fpv.

[fpv_gtho]

well i dunno whether lion tamers got it figured yet

[Falcon500]

Originally posted by fpv_gtho
well i dunno whether lion tamers got it figured yet
well this is his wake up call.

[fpv_gtho]

u notice though he hasnt been back much, same with falcon hell. at least he had the time to make a thread on a possible FPV turbo

[Falcon500]

Just like yahoo spring the posers and they piss of real quick and on occasion they hang around and be a pain.

[fpv_gtho]

maybe they just stumbled across the sight like i did in a google search and found something to complain about

[falcon hell]

only check it once a day

[Falcon500]

Well I found this website from a bloke in yahoo chat who was talking about the new GT40 and posted the link for the car so i had a squiz and decided to join up it took me ages to realise they put the handfull of australian fords in the ford american section (i persoanlly think they should put the aussie fords in the austrlain section and the pommy fords in the english section ect ect) and ive made it my little queast to try and get them to put more of them in here (my suggestions look like they have been promptly ignored i even offerd to help)

[fpv_gtho]

well unfortunately when you're a minority not the majority, you dont always get heard

[Falcon500]

Its not so much in a minority (which i am) its more of a case they dont care (right now they have better things to worry about)

[fpv_gtho]

well youve also got to consider, that you and me, as australians, can see the difference between ford australia and ford america as clear as the difference between chev and holden. americans, because of the same ford badge, think its all the same and dont see much of a reason to differentiate the two. if they added cars like the pursuit ute and xr6t, then there'd be 5 australian fords and probably enough to split them from america

[Falcon500]

Well that tears it then i have all the relivent info for all that i have the 92 issue with the EB GT all the bore stroke hp and all that stuff plus some newer mags with all that info i might have to write to wouter_melissan (sorry if i spelt it wrong) with all the relevent info.

[fpv_gtho]

u may not have realised, but theyve got the phase 3 in the archives, u might wanna get them to put XR's and XW's in as well. i think more people will wanna see the XR6 Turbo put in though

[Falcon500]

Yeah i found the phase three in the archives quite by accident the picky person i am the car their showing is a normal GT not thats too much of a problem but i think the XRs XTs XWs and stuff should be added and all the XR8s and so on.

[fpv_gtho]

well considering the nature of the sight, they wouldnt put anything slower than a GS, ESP, GXL or XR falcon on, which excludes everything before the XRGT but that still leaves a fair few cars and id say they wanna concentrate on putting newer cars on. i think alot of people when listing info on the GTHO mistakedly show only a "normal" GT

[Falcon500]

Well the xp sprint will be ok i would think. But yeah why clog it up with bread and butter models well just put pics of all the top of the line stuff.

[fpv_gtho]

well i think we could make a list of over 50 cars that should be listed but the reality is they wouldnt consider any more than about 10

[Falcon500]

Yeah more then likly but it think for now well focus on the higest performace of a single model XE ESP XW pahse II XA GT and so on.

[fpv_gtho]

well even then there would be too many cars, perhaps just the 10 fastest falcons, although the phase 2's would be towards the bottom of the list with cars like the series 3 xr8 and TE50 close to the top

[Falcon500]

WRONG! the phase 2 was actually fatser on the 1/4 mile then the phase 3 by a few tenth but never the less was still fater and it also has the added benifit of being the first HO to win at bathurst.
The list wouls be somthing like
XR GT
XT GT
XW pahse 1 and 2
XY phase thee (already there)
XA GT
XB GT
XC Cobra
XD ESP
XE ESP
XF falcon turbo
EA S pack turbo (there was such a thing but i need info on it)
EB GT
ED XR8 Sprint
EF Xr8
EL GT
AU TE50
BA GT
And also probly give or take the early turbos but as big as that list is itll be a very difinative guide and i bet we could lowly get them all in.

[fpv_gtho]

u sure u dont mean EL xr8, cause the sprint would cream an ef. when wheels first tested T3, the mocked up a list of the top falcons and the phase 2 made P2, only because phase 3's have a possible 6 different gearbox/diff combos cause they offered them with close and wide ratio box's, and diffs with 3.25, 3.5 and 3.9 gears. so so far wheels though it went T3, phase 2, phase 1, T2 so ahead of all that would sit the xr6 turbo and BAGT, and dependant on gearing, the phase 3 would slot in somewhere

[Falcon500]

Yeah it will it is still fater then anything but the GT (but even then itll rely on skill of either driver) the phase II had a freer revving engine it was all up to the cam the phase II was more civilised and had a greater top speed.
The list of say top (in no order) would have
BA GT
XW GT (since the XYs already there)
XA GT EB (becuase i already have all the info and for somthing midway between the 90s)
say an XE ESP (cuz we can)
and au TE50
Hoe does that sound for a starting lineup not all of the the fastest but some are the more intersting vehicals and it has somthing over all the decades.

[fpv_gtho]

well the XW was unique with its rev limit around 7000rpm so that stays, the EB and EL are anniversary editions so they can stay, the XA was the first fully australian designed falcon so it can stay, T3 showed ford was serious about the segment and paved the way for the BA (it probably did too good a job really) so it can stay and the BA's the fastest so it can stay, unless theres someone with a stock, close ratio, 3.9:1 diff XY who can get under 14 for the quarter

[Falcon500]

well i pciekd the XE last model in a huge change dropping the 8 also flasest ESP model and also comes mid way between most of the cars we are talking about add a little versatility and let them see what out 80s models looked like as well.

[fpv_gtho]

most americans would think it was a bigger fox mustang and most eurpoeans would think its a bigger sierra

[Falcon500]

It hardly looks like the seira though has similaritys between the fox mustang.
And i can account for the safety of the XD-XF seris cars i was in an accident in one on friday night. I was the passenger (pissed as a fart) and the driver had a few beers to many we ended up in a tree.
Im fine just a little sore and the driver who had a broken leg might of damged his leg again and the cars a write off. And it was shaping up to of been a top night.

[fpv_gtho]

well the 4dr sierra looks kinda like an XF or a lotus carlton but im surprised to hear you came away from hitting a tree in an XD with nothing to show for it

[Falcon500]

Well everyone else called it a tree even the cop but it looked more like one big arsed shrubs and it was big enough to stop up at a fair pace also the tree fell out from under the car. And i wanst hurnt of course i breaced myself held the arm rest with my left arm put my right arm on the dash and held firm with both feet when i relised stopping "didtnshhhh look like its was gunna happen" i also stuck my beer between my legs and didnt spill any of it (cheering) while my mate got batterd around a bit and might of caused some trouble to himself with the plate in his broken leg he also rolled through the tree we hit and looked like he lost a fight with the cat. The worsdst part was not the day after it was the day after that both my arms were really sore my legs were sore and i had a sore neck too (probly from the sudden jerk)

[fpv_gtho]

well all those last things, sore arms, legs and neck, are things manufacturers have worked to try and avoid by putting in crumple zones.

[Falcon500]

Well that car would of had crumple zones tohugh somewhat unrefined compared to what they are nowdays but also no crumple zones are perfect they cant cover all areas like a collision with a 4 wheel drive or rolling for example but still if the colission is fast enough with crumple zones the car would of been crushed like a beer can! and would of even caved around us a bit and more then likly would of alloud glass to shatter while to body twist as it was there was no glass broken and we could get out by opening the doors.
Like the woman in the celica who hit the holden ute a few years back at 60km/h her head nailed the stering wheel and every pannel and the pop up lights needed to be replaced the dent trilor which the ute was towing was like half a cucumber.

[fpv_gtho]

Originally posted by Falcon500
Like the woman in the celica who hit the holden ute a few years back at 60km/h her head nailed the stering wheel and every pannel and the pop up lights needed to be replaced the dent trilor which the ute was towing was like half a cucumber.

i never heard about that accident before, but it reminds me o an accident my mum had. she was waiting to turn off a main road into a street in her XA Fairmont when this guy who was 2 cars behind her, went around the car between them and rammed up the back of the Fairmont. the guys car which was like a pulsar or something had the whole front end smashed in and my mums XA had a smallish dent in the fuel tank and rear bumper. after seeing how much it shook my mum up though, i put my faith in crumple zones, although the site of a smashed up car probably freaks alot of people out and u just gotta remember the cars designed to do that........

[Falcon500]

That accident was onei was involved in i was crossing the road at a pedestrian crossing and the guy in the ute towing the trailor stopped and i looked behind him and noticed the celica wasnt slwoing down i ran back ushers him on and he gave me a confused look and BANG it even set off the automatic alarm in welcome mart (local corner shop here wich was closed down then) and i didnt mean every pannel either just the front end.
My mum works in the queanbeyan hospital as a cleaner and she had a guy come in the other day (the older brother of i guy i go to school with) and he swerved off the road at speed (he was pseeding slightly) and collided with somthing (a telegraph poleim led tobelieve) and there was hardly anything left of him so much for crumple zones they had no choice but to cremate him they couldent even show the corpse at the funeral! ive seen a handfull accidents and ive seen cars with people screaming who are trapped in these cars with crumple zones and the few i have seen the people have died due to lack of any proper medical attention because they were incased in these crumpling tombs! one of the most noteable was a chrysler valient in a head on with a new avalon the avalons front passengers where trapped bleeding and dieing! where the valient driver walked out of his car all the had was whiplash and a minor head injury and the car was repareblealso but the avalon was awrite off and the passenger died and the driver had both legs broken as well as trauma

[fpv_gtho]

well toyota brag on about thier safe-t-cell crap and after that it all sounds BS

[Falcon500]

I will still would own a new car and i do admit there are some slow speed advantages to the cars but i dont like 1 sided arguments that its the end all and be all. everything has its downsides. Holden and ford have safety cells too but the crash tester arnt as wrapped in them and all safety cells dont work at over 100 km/h i think.

[fpv_gtho]

i dont think many safety systems work over 100km/h, airbags maybe if theyre the dual stage type ford have now adapted. not many safety systems work against skinny solid objects such as telegraph poles either, its part of the safety compromise i guess, the manufacturers reckon its more likely you gunna hit a car than a tree or telegraph pole

[HoldenHFV6]

90% of crash tests are done below 40Km/h. The chances of survivng a deaccelartion above 40Km/h is like 1 / 10,000.
The crash cell at Holden runs at 20 Km/h and the high speed test cell works at 60Km/h. The injuries recorded on the test dummies at 60Km/h are horrific.

[fpv_gtho]

thats pretty bad statistics. doesnt it go something like if you dont die at the scene you die in a couple of days in a hospital bed?? and most crashes around 60km/h, the right application of yuor brakes wouldve prevented most of it

[Falcon500]

Yeah most crashes above 60km/h usually end of pretty bad im just glad the tree we hit had a giant bloody shrub in front of itwich really cuhsend it (that and the fact i braced myself i put my beer between my legs put one arm on the arm rest and put one hand on the dash as well as tensioned the belt allmy limbs were sore but thats the worstof it) as a said new cars are onlygood for avoiding injury atslow speeds againt broad objects and totally suck arse when you have to replace the whole arse end or front end because of a minor bingle.

[HoldenHFV6]

The car industry is ment to be looking at making cars safer for pedestrians. Imagine hitting a person and they walk away but your car is stuffed. Imagine using the same car to hit a tree.

[Falcon500]

That is a insteresting point reminds me of my neughbour carona after shit his a wombat not only was there not much left of the wombat but there wasnt much left of the small cars front end!

[fpv_gtho]

Originally posted by Falcon500
as a said new cars are onlygood for avoiding injury atslow speeds againt broad objects and totally suck arse when you have to replace the whole arse end or front end because of a minor bingle.

well if paying a couple of grand in car repairs got you out of serious injury then i'd be grateful. the state the hospitals are in today its best just to go private health care, and unless your with a fund or have health insurance, you can expect to fork out a hell of a lot more for serious injury than fixing you car. its reasons like these that manufacturers are realising the need for pre-accident safety measures like ABS brakes that work, traction control, stability control and all the other ECU programs

[Falcon500]

Well no private hospitals are cleanmed bycontract clearsmost of the time and nine times out of 10 dont do a proper jobas they are only contractors. Public hospitals might be slow and crouded but usually you aregetting goodcare from them and you save a heap from them. My aunty got a tapto the front 1/4of her VN and its a dent about the size of your fist and its gonna cost $800 + parts.

[fpv_gtho]

well for a dent the size of a fist, thats alot in repairs, but its not much in the whole scheme of things

[Falcon500]

It is all considering its a VN

[fpv_gtho]

this is going back to the VERY original topic of this thread, but what does everyone think FPV will do to the GT in 2004, all considering DJR have released their modded XR8 and HSV released the 285kw series 2?

[Falcon500]

Wellimhopeing forsome exaust and 6 speeders both manual and auto and prehaps a few more wheel options and theyll more then likely add a dvd play and stuff now.

[fpv_gtho]

someone posted something on the car on the site, saying that Prodrive were working the engine for what its worth on a 6K rev limit. FPV and Ford are adament on keeping it reving at a safe level, Ford US i think are having all sorts of troubles running the alluminium block 5.4L's at 6500rpm with a supercharger also pulling off the crank, ive heard stories of conrods cracking and all.

[Falcon500]

Well thats ive heard too the engines are somwhat fragile but most people have more fath in the cast iron version (myself included) my case there is have you heard any problems with the lightning? basicly it runs a super charged version of what we have.

[fpv_gtho]

well the current lighting engine, has the same block as the BOSS and BARRA V8's, but is closer to the BARRA as the lighting is a 2 valve supercharged engine and the BARRA 3 valve's heads are gunna replace the existing 2 valver 4.6 and 5.4's. but the 2004 lighting which shares its engine with the GT(40), is nothing like anything Ford OZ uses, being an all alluminium alloy design. Ford OZ built the BOSS engine up off the Ford Expedition 5.4L (which the media always calls the Navigator, when its the Lincoln version called the Navigator) with the 4.6L cobra heads. but about problems with the lighting's engine, i havent heard any as i think its got a 5500rpm limit

[Falcon500]

Wasnt the Gt 40 using a cast iron version?
I dont know about the eingies rev limits but it still is a fairly stresses motr being supercharged and pulling the best part of 2 ton faster then nearly anything we have over here.

[fpv_gtho]

well i believe the engine has tremendous low down torque which hurls it to 100km/h in about 5.8 seconds and it holds the highest speed for a pickup/utility at about 238km/h. the maloo does 6.3 and i dunno what top speed, gearing lets it do 265km/h in a sedan and the pusuit does 6.2 and is limited at 230km/h, so its not that far ahead compared to our local product. HSV want to make an attempt to break the record but i think the 2004 model will make them think again, for now at least

[fpv_gtho]

the GT40 engine i believe was specially designed for its application, before its appearance, the 4 valve engine was only in the expedition/navigator so the alluminium block wouldve been one of the first things to save weight after the modernisation og the GT40 chassis blew out its weight more than 150% of its original state

[Falcon500]

Well they modernized the car and made it slighlt larger and made it so it was confeterble to driver and so on and addedmod cons so of course its going to be heaps heavier then origonally planned Now i think they should pull a lotus on the car and specificly work to reduce the weightof these compnats eg lotus's air conditiong unti that now weighs somthing like 20 kilos (i thinki cant rember exactly)
Well as i said i dont like the sounds of the avalanche i scarcly like the idea behind the lightning I perosnally think its the wrong kind of vehical to accelerate that fast and so on maily because ofitsjust on 2 ton weight (of course thats just me) Ive heard some fiarly tall tales that are planned for the 2004 model likeplans of being much much faster and so on.

[fpv_gtho]

i think its official then that all of ford are having trouble keeping their cars light, with the BA and now the GT. having like an R spec GT40 would have its appeal for track-goers and could appeal to the types the the RS EVO Lancers and N type WRX's do

[Falcon500]

Well that sounds like a good idea they shouldalso give it adjustble suspension and stuff like that to make itmore versitile on the track.

[fpv_gtho]

stick some airbags underneath all 4 corners or maybe some adjustable koni's. i'd be surprised if ford didnt make a version with more than 500hp though

[Falcon500]

Id go the konis but theyd just about have too and im waiting for a 24 hour edition to come out.

[fpv_gtho]

a 24hr version would be sweet, something to make it more competitive in FIA/Nations Cup. the koni's would be lighter and i'd say theyd offer more traction which is what your after in a track car.

hehe, next post for the forum's #400, first i cracked 2000 tonight now were about to crack 400 here

[Falcon500]

I honestly dont know about that as we are at a disadvantage not being ford engieershere we dont know how long ford has put into this car? you never know the shocks might already be better or possibly as good as konis. But thats all pie in the sky sort of crap but still a stripped out version will allow them to run lower wights in the FIA series and stuff and if they give the engine a once over theyll be able to capitalise on the minor mods on offer.

[fpv_gtho]

theres probably more power available from the engine just from a more effecient redo of the supercharger plumbing, we can get 390hp from a naturally aspirated 5.4, 500hp is only about 25-30% more power. the whole development of the GT was actually fairly rushed, as ford needed to come up with the complete car by june this year for the centenery celebrations, but in credit of the car, they used the lightest possible materials regardless of cost and they still came out with a bargain

[Falcon500]

Well yeah itll be marvelous to see the cars return to competition again. Ican hardly wait id love to see one in nations cup :)

[fpv_gtho]

well it was hinted this year that next year the cars will be able to rce at bathurst for the 24hr race, my guess is the cost of running one would be nothing compared to that of running a V8 supercar, kina like the costs of running a skyline in the ATCC

[fpv_gtho]

i mean the monaro's the first time i said the V8 supercar, well, thats what they practically are anyway so what does it matter

[Falcon500]

Well the monaro take 600k to build for competition and give or take 50k for rubber and fuel an so on i think the gt40 would be a bit of a bargin (imo) the ferraris tyakes around 750k to buy the car and set up so well have to wait and see.

[fpv_gtho]

600K is a big ask just for a monaro, Bowe's V8 supercar was only 350K. with the release of the 360GTC im expecting the 360GT's raced to either drop in proce, or for the GTC's to start racing here

[Falcon500]

Well it appres to set them up for racing is a big ask i nearly shat myself when they compared the prices to other cars in the field (nations cup) the prosches mostly are 200 odd k and they were the cheapest and the most expensive was the ferrari and then the moaro the lambo was suprisingly cheap and won the series.

[fpv_gtho]

well its a good thing then i guess that theyre so expensive, otherwise there'd be more fans like BiTurbo trying to justify their entry into the category with the lack of a road going counterpart (the CV8 doesnt count), by the way, better not show him (BiTurbo) the forum i posted in the racing sectino of the site

[Falcon500]

Well Asivemade clear the car is not really made in the spirit and is let in by specail means but no more on that.... (i guess that might be why their so competative at bathurst cubic dollers...)

[fpv_gtho]

yeah its definately something like that, how something managed to have 2 entries under the rules of it being a "prototype" is a bit stupid, as i made clear in the thread about the car's entry in the racing forums, alot of people are going to be angry if it is once again included next year

[Falcon500]

Well tis procars choice wether they run itor not but its wether they run off morals or money...another tough choice.

[fpv_gtho]

its too bad they dont stick to morals, for the sake of the category. do u think garry rogers has anything to do with the decision each year when Procar decide what cars are still eligible? by all rights, it shouldnt even have been in this year let alone extend to a 2 car operation and next year hes headed to Le Mans

[Falcon500]

Well the lemans job is way above procar all they could do is support him...
And whatching the 01 races you realise that garrys operation was fairly low key then this obviously raked in the $$$$ for him.

[fpv_gtho]

well LeMans i believe is governed by FIA and i think theyre rules are alot stricter than Nations Cup so GRM may not even get to the starting line let alone make it back there, but hes pretty confident about going so perhaps its already been finalised

[Falcon500]

Well i view Garry as a very vain man so id think hed already be going nuts about letting everyone know if it already was.

[fpv_gtho]

well ive only seen one bit of information about the venture to LeMans, and that only said thatgarry was interested in taking a Monaro there in Valvoline Cummins colours over the conventional red or yellow. the cars entry is bound to spark controversy overseas, especially if it does here

[Falcon500]

Well ive posted some infor i got from the pro car website on your page you created FPV about the monaro and i think we should shift this conversation into that thread.
Also anyone else whos interested aremore then welcome to add their bobs worth.

[fpv_gtho]

ill try and get back on original topic here, considering i reckon this is the biggest thread on the site

how much power do u think Prodrive have gotten out of the BOSS, if they really have been working on it? they've been working on the Ford V8 supercar engine in england and the last couple of rounds Seto was using it but it was having misfiring problems at the creek. well anyway, FPV themselves got 300kw from the engine with i think it was a longer intake runner, but i think its torque low down was worse than the XR8, which has 400nm at about 2000rpm where the production GT has the same amount at 1000rpm, the scary part is idle is a tad under 700rpm and people who have fitted herrod full exhaust's have experienced a raise in idle speed

[Falcon500]

Well from what i read it got goodhigh range torque but they didnt like the delivery of it people are wanting a dead flat deliver and a smooth one also.
I haven heard about the raise in idle speed but i cant imagine why that would happen unless the computerneed remapping or somthing?

[fpv_gtho]

well having 400nm just off idle is more than smooth delivery, its probably the reason why the GT has so much trouble launching, if they could fit one, they should put in a variable inlet tract or at least a 2 stage system like whats on the 6

[Falcon500]

Its only as smooth as the driver "rember smooth driver is a fastone"-BradlyJones. Thatspossibleandprehaps to make the jurnos happy they couldadd a real good launch/traction controll thatll stop a lotof bitching.

[fpv_gtho]

well rumour has it last year skaife look it upon himself to add traction control to his car, and with the number of jump starts he had this year i'd believe it, but for it to be an integral part of the rules, it would take away alot of the human error that makes it fun to watch

[Falcon500]

Oh i was refering too the GT..
But that interesting about skaife i never heardthat one before...

[fpv_gtho]

lol im getting mixed up in forums here

i think for BA2 when the stablility control off the territory becomes available ford might add to that some launch control. the current traction control is miles ahead of holdens as they dont use a fly by wire throttle whereas ford do, so the intergration of these technologies is a walk in the park for ford

[crisis]

well rumour has it last year skaife look it upon himself to add traction control to his car, and with the number of jump starts he had this year i'd believe it, but for it to be an integral part of the rules, it would take away alot of the human error that makes it fun to watch
I heard the traction control rumour and I also heard it was bullshit. If its anyhting like traction control on my car it would be more of a hinderance than an advantage. I always turn it off. If you try to launch it with any force with it on it shuts everything down as soon as the wheels spin. A bit of controlled spin is the way to go. I cant believe Skaife or any professional driver would want such a thing.

[Falcon500]

Well i heard the holdens pedel kicks back when it senses a loss of traction I could really imagine that giving me the shits iof course i reckon traction controll is shit in general imo
I have my doubts about skaife with the traction controll also but anythings possible and if he was to do that crisis i would think it would be remeniscent like the arrows F1 team are using like their seteering wheel and other bits and [peices on the car.

[crisis]

Well i heard the holdens pedel kicks back when it senses a loss of traction I could really imagine that giving me the shits iof course i reckon traction controll is shit in general imo
I have my doubts about skaife with the traction controll also but anythings possible and if he was to do that crisis i would think it would be remeniscent like the arrows F1 team are using like their seteering wheel and other bits and [peices on the car.
Yeah the the pedal kicks you foot off. My wife leaves it on and for a lot of people it is probably safer. You can put the thing arse around very easily if you dont control the input. (not that I am a great driver). In the wet it can be lethal.
It would have been hard for Skaife to get something like that past repeated scruitineering.

[Falcon500]

Wel i like to drive and being a young fool i still like to fool around (of course when the road or paddock is empty) of course in the rain when i want to behave itll probly be a good idea.
it reminds me of my friend who said fords are cheating saying thier alloy svo blocks give them an unfair advantage im takeing them both with a grain of salt if uit did happen its all up to avesco/cams to do somthing about it

[fpv_gtho]

well i only heard the rumour about skaife once, and i think it was when someone was explaining the go with the new TEGA ECU put on all of the cars, they have only this season started really making sure everyone was following the rules to strict specifications, before if they ever checked a car was right it was purely random. people used to put custom intakes on the engines in a hope to get extra horsepower, part of the reason why the airbox's are so big, so no one else could see it.

its the way the traction control on the VY operates that would make it such a nuisance, im not exactly sure how they work it, but for ford because theyve got the electronic throttle it can work off that, something it cant do on a mechanical cable in the VY and thats also why the VZ adventra will get stabilit control, not the VY as the HFV6 has an electronic throttle

[Falcon500]

well any body seeing under hrts bonnet is rare indeed the few times you see under it its just a peice of carbon fibre both hrt and the stones as well as other have been banned from using screens also.
i rember a matwe driving a ss once he said it was like it was saying back off before i die lol

[fpv_gtho]

well that big bit of carbon fibre is the airbox, HRT were worried that the ford BA drivers were going to fit a bigger one with the bulge on teh car so they wanted them to use an XR6 bonnet

[Falcon500]

Yeah i rember skaife doing his stuffbitching up a storm about it.

[fpv_gtho]

i dont see what possible gains couldve been made, not with teh TEGA control ECU limiting the fords power to 635hp

[Falcon500]

Well i guess every little bit could help. And skaife probly doesnt want to give an inch anthing he thinks he can bitch about he will.

[fpv_gtho]

well i guess when you think about it, the ECU limits peak power, not midrange power ot peak torque, someof the reasons why FPR now send theyr race engines over to prodrive like how HRT used to do with TWR, except in those days there wasnt any real limits on peak power as 1. the cars and engines were hardly ever checked and 2. the engines were right on the limit as is

[Falcon500]

Yeah thats ture. And also you might rember a time when brights car used to break down all the time and when skaife got an unbeatable lead their cars kept breaking down? Im assuiming then they were experimenting with new parts. Im not quoting this from anywhere but thats what it looked liketo me.

[fpv_gtho]

well ive only really started tryin to watch all the races this year so i dont really know what your talking about sorry

[Falcon500]

Well it was msotlylast year that reall happend. I think FPRwere doing it to glenn seton when he was in a position where he had nothing to loose and a lot to gain so they gave him the test engines.

[fpv_gtho]

well seto mightnt have had much to lose, but at pukekohe he sure was giving ambrose hell, who had everything to lose if he DNF'd

[Falcon500]

Welli still standby my accented quote from max wilson "we are racing for position unlesswe are directed toowere not going to rollover we need topreform too for our sponsors and our teams" and he is right you cant exactly blame him for trying. You have all rights to be unhappy but you cant blame him.

[fpv_gtho]

well whether he deserves to be blamed or not, the end of the season isnt the best place for those outside of the top 10 to try and get results, its for those inside the top ten to fight and hold onto their position, and if seto really had nothing to loose, then what the hell was he doing trying to earn the enforcer nickname off ingall

[crisis]

well any body seeing under hrts bonnet is rare indeed the few times you see under it its just a peice of carbon fibre both hrt and the stones as well as other have been banned from using screens also.
i rember a matwe driving a ss once he said it was like it was saying back off before i die lol
No teams will let you see too much under the bonnet but the scrutineers can check whats in his jocks if they want.

[fpv_gtho]

thats an.......interesting way of putting it crisis

[Falcon500]

Well most teams are very secrative but then there teams klike briggs motor sport and paul wheel racing who arnt too fussed they open up their bonnets and let you have a squiz and some teams even display their olders cars so you can take a closer look. Of course they wouldent be the current cars but that would give away some of their secrets.

[fpv_gtho]

well it all really means nothing to the teams now, if theyre lucky enough to find any extra power out of the engine theyve got to make sure its in the right places, and u cant really find much out just by having a general look

[Falcon500]

Well most teams dont really care unless you can see their manifolds they are the most secret part of a v8 super car the only parts that have almost unlimited mods avalible too them even a picture can give away a lot. When HRT was working on there cars in caberra there were 2 people constanly sweeping their garage I think they were hired just to obscure any view you might have gotten from the car turned around in the tent. Larry Perkins is very secreative of course he builds his own heads and even some of his older exmaples are still being used in the konica series. But one thing ive noticed is ive never even caught a glimpse of what the stones have under their bonnet.

[fpv_gtho]

well that comes as a surprise to me, with all the work ford racing america have done to the engine, the australian teams using the engines are still finding more out of the engine, but i guess its only the heads and block that get bought off america. well ross and jimmy although being a top dollar team, unlike HRT 888 and FPR, dont really have any motorsport connections elsewhere, so if theyve come up with some brillian intake manifold then its a real credit to them

[Falcon500]

Well I would still think that the stones would still ahve siome of their links they forged from shell racing while they were still being employed by DJR. Maybey they build their own heads? it seem their alloud too if Larry Perkins can.

[fpv_gtho]

i think perhaps there still could be links to DJR existing, but i dunno about them building their own heads, i think that i'd have heard about it before if it was so

[Falcon500]

Well its hard to make it in such a competative game so it wouldent suprise me if they have international links that we dont know about. Like for example i dont know what DJRs links are but i know he has some american ones as well as hiss own huge datbase. And likewise most teams have links we likly never have heard of and likewise probly will never know about.

[fpv_gtho]

when dick johnson has 30 years of racing heritage to his name, who knows what international links he or his team could posess. SBR really though seam like a team that are privateers with lots of money. theyre not built off former racers(DJR, Perkins engineering), not by some race engineering mob ala 888, FPR(prodrive) and TWR and theyre not a factory team so theyre really out there on their own

[Falcon500]

Well if you put it that way DJ is aprivateer who owns a large facility the stones are aprofessinal team and they would have link all teams have links of some variety for example there are whispers that team dynamik have links to a few indie teams.

[fpv_gtho]

well DJR couldve once been considered somewhat of a privateer, but now that DJ's retired and able to focus on running the team behind the scenes theyve got expertise of a 2nd level driving them whereas SBR dont, DJR work off what they learnt yesterday (as in, all of DJ's experience and such) and SBR work off what they found in the mornings practise!

[Falcon500]

The stones dohave their own data they have been around since 96 after they left DJR to form their own team. But like every other team they learn new things every time and dont forget that the Stones have been doing a lot of DJs dirty work they just never had quite the budget they had. They have been racing for along time they were estalishes as a racing team since 98 where they won bathurst and they have had heaps of drivers from steven richards,Jason bright,Craig Barid and heaps others in that time as well.

[fpv_gtho]

well it seems theres alot to the stones that i didnt know about. perhaps they can help DJR out to become a front runner again for 04, last time they won was 95 with Bowe so that will make it almost 10 years since a win

[SHAKER]

hehe i still remember skaifey in 92 when the crowd game him shit
for winning in the nissan. So why wasnt he racing his beloved holden back then? =P

[fpv_gtho]

back in 92, i think it was because skaife was in the lead when the race had been red flagged that everyone gave him shit, falc knows the story better than i do anyway. he wouldn't have been in a holden back then because he was only a novice and he had scored a drive in a GTR with jim richards of all people. in 92 it didnt get much better than that

[SHAKER]

yeah skaifey was driving with nissan, hed been with him since 86 or 87 if my memory serves me correctly along with glen seton. Then in 89 glen set up his own ford racing team (peter jackson racing) and skaife stayed with nissan. Ironically after the end of group A racing skaifey drove for the winfield racing team(commodores) and when they lost the cigarette sponsorship he and gibson racing struggled for a few years before hrt snapped him up.

[fpv_gtho]

isnt it ironic both skaife and lowndes had short stints with gibson motorsport. i think the whole field is hoping the idea to ban alcohol sponsorship falls out, those add's they play are damn funny, same with the ones they do during the NRL

[SHAKER]

so what was the reason for fred gibson selling his team after one year, and what is he doing now?

[fpv_gtho]

i dont know the reasoning behind it, i dont even really know who ended up buying it, i think rodney forbes, but i heard somewhere that team brock predicted to go under, with kees weel buying the team, people were relating it to 00 motorsport with Fred's dad supposedly buying the team and it went under, apparently the same thing happened with team brock to get them out of the TWR scandal. ive also heard that betta electrical are pulling there sponsorship and directing more towards 888's way

[Falcon500]

Well in 87 under international Group A/world championship racing Mr skaife was in a group B caras nissan Gazelle with Peter jackson Sponsorship with glenn seton and John bowe being more senior members of the team :D Other names in the nissan team that might be worth mnetioning is John Faulkiner (most starts with no wins) in a group C Carolla. Fred gibson ran a bit longer then that and he became a team manger for a time but ive heard nothing more on the man since. An interesting thin i heard on speed week was that a team who used to race in the commadore cup had a rich brother who bought outone of the 00 spots and are planning on making a team (though they were talking about the konicas unless their going to use their eqipment and some hardware peices in the konicas that or that dude who commentates for SBS was confusing himself because he sure confuses me and i can usually follow the comintators prattle on)
And fred Gibson wouldent be the first ex racer to start up his own team and sell it off soon afterwards eg allan moffat.

[fpv_gtho]

thats all interesting stuff there, i still got my issues with moffat though......

[SHAKER]

dont know what ur beef is about with Moffat he flew the ford flag for years...interstingly enough theres a link on the www.historictouringcars.com.au website to allan moffats persoanl website, if youre fans of yesteryear motor racing this is a must see website. the links arent bad either

[fpv_gtho]

my beef with him is off track he can be a prick. hes one of those drivers to me, that when they take theyr race-face off, u dont want to know them because of how arrogant they can get

[SHAKER]

reminds me of gentleman jim richards, they say hes a hard man to race with and if he hits you on the track hell apologise for doing so later....i think garth tander is the most arrogant person ive seen followed by skaife.

[fpv_gtho]

well im sure jim richards would be an experience to drive with. if i had to chose between driving with brock, perkins or richards, its richards i'd take though, probably the only non biased one there and hes widely regarded as one of australias best touring car drivers because of how easily he switched between cars. skaife and tander though, i fully agree

[SHAKER]

well my favourite all time driver would have to be ambrose, with his talent and geniune ford loyalty, (not like most drivers who dont even really care for who they drive for)......i hope holden dont lure him away by flashing big bucks in his face, i mean look at lowndes, i thought hed be driving for hrt forever, although his first road car was a ford and he still owns it!

[fpv_gtho]

that was an old cortina GT or something wasnt it?? lowndes was originally a ford man though he reckons, he must just be in the game for the fun of it, the big bucks got him into HRT and the same thing got him out of there. alot of people althoughy applauding ambrose, still would put their money on lowndes for the experience factor. if your take say ambrose, lowndes and seton for instance, youve got 3 main characters of drivers. ambrose is the one with little experience but hes got the talent to win. lowndes has the experience and the talent so people go for this type. seton has the experience, but hes not really in his prime anymore. alot of people want lowndes to win this years championship and ambrose and ingall to take bathurst

[SHAKER]

nah id rather Ambrose win cause hes a Tru Blu ford man, then Seto, cause lets face it even his dad won bathurst in a Ford, then Ingall.(only cause hes an Adelaide boy hehe).then Lowndes.......lets not forget Stevey Johnson, hes a the son of a Tru Blu ledge!

[fpv_gtho]

steven johnson isnt the son of A tru blu legend, hes the son of THE tru blu legend.

FPR next year will be able to concentrate on keeping pace on the car rather than figuring all the little things out so lowndes should be more competitive, but despite more than 10 years experience behind him, its still evident how much of a kid he is, like how he was at surfers paradise last year.

[SHAKER]

what happened at surfers last year?.i remember at surfers the year before he was on his way to win the final race till bargs overtook him in the valvoline car......and i also remember surfers when he was in the au and he hit the edge of the cement wall while in a handy front running posistion.....maybe the fords harder to drive than the hrt commies.

[SHAKER]

have you heard much of these "new engines" from prodrive?.......they wacked one in setos car in the final round and they had probs with it

[fpv_gtho]

seto had the engine since the gold coast, thats why he finished behind ambrose in the 2nd race (despite ambrose only working off 7 cylinders hehe) and why ambrose couldnt get around him at pukekohe until the enforcer stepped in. eastern creek was the first time they started having issues with it

ps. its called a prodrive R8 engine apparently

[SHAKER]

so the stone bros engine is just as competitive on a street circuit with 7 cylinders against the new fpr prodrive engine.....so whats new about the new prodrive engine?

[fpv_gtho]

well ambrose kept in front of seton on the street circuit mainly because the last 10 laps when the engine dropped a valve, half the time was spent under safety car and the rest the field was bunched right up. the capabilities of the engine were better seen at pukekohe when ambrose couldnt safely pass seton and it was left up to ingal and ambrose going bumper to bumper through the midfield, alot of people are considering that act as the greatest expression of teamwork.

the engine still has to stay at peak power of 620hp and peak torque of 623nm, so more than likely prodrive are working on enhancing the lower to midrange response of the engine

[SHAKER]

yeah i heard they were working heavily on reducing fuel consumption of the engine to last out a few laps more than there rivals perhaps.......just an interesting note that the holden heads are now the same design as the more efficient "ford" heads....wonder if theyll be able to extract more power than the fords now........holden are calling the engine the "holden motor sport" engine.why dont they just call it the ford headed chev engine ..seems more to the truth to me lol. so in essence the holden cars now have ford twin wishbone front suspension, ford 9 inch rear differential and ford designed heads.......jeez maybe holdens are better than fords then??...not hehe

[Falcon500]

They are only actually based on the ford design this chevrolet deign has been around for a long time the head on no longer have the simaesed bores that the old holden engines have and with the extra space that freed up they now have improved cooling and now can breathe about as much as the ford engine.

[SHAKER]

yes i remember reading that in the U.S chev were designing the more efficient head for the nascar series a few years ago.Which was basically a copy of the ford head.

[fpv_gtho]

well i wish that both sides could update to a DOHC motor. despite making over 600hp, racing around in pushrod 5.0L motors doesnt seem very advanced. unfortunately, we're going to have to wait until NASCAR updates before we can too.

[SHAKER]

well the average jo blo wont worry about whether they have 4 valves or 2 valves under the bonnet..i want them to keep racing the 5.0 litres to see how much more hp they can squeeze out of em...maybe they should bump up the rev limit to 8000rpm and compression to 10.5 to 1. I can see the engine repair bills escalating sky high if that ever does happen lol

[fpv_gtho]

well with 8000rpm, i think they might want to consider the likes of variable inlet tracts, but theres bound to be a good 10 years left in the engines

[Falcon500]

well i wish that both sides could update to a DOHC motor. despite making over 600hp, racing around in pushrod 5.0L motors doesnt seem very advanced. unfortunately, we're going to have to wait until NASCAR updates before we can too. We are actaully ahead of nascar we actually use fuel injection and we allow formore mods where nascar is more generic in the parts they use. Well have to wait untill the Cams and avesco officials view it worth wile.

[fpv_gtho]

well we're still sitting about a litre below NASCAR, but the point i was getting at was all the engine development coming onto V8 Supercars comes straight out of NASCAR, and they would have to sweitch to modern technology for us to benefit

[Falcon500]

Well the reason why they let us fiddle with so much is because not only is nascar about going in circles but it is in fact techniologically chasing its own arse! they are still using boss engines while there is nothing wrong with that they should be using fuel injected 5.4s in mustangs rather then this strange formula they came up with.

[SHAKER]

well unlike v8 supercars were they teams use the same car and ship all all around the country the nascar boys have a car for each track and the internals of the engine are determined by what track they run on.

[fpv_gtho]

isnt there also something in NASCAR where all the ford teams share data, and the same for dodge and chev?

[SHAKER]

well id be quite suprised if thats the case....i dont really know though...anyway whats this got to do with the BA GT? lol

[fpv_gtho]

lol, ask a stupid question and theres only gunna be one thing your gunna get back......

i think i heard it a while ago that the teams under a manufacturer can share data in NASCAR and its supposedly something they cant do in V8 supercars, its a good thing then that ambrose didnt stay over there then

[SHAKER]

id love to see ambrose race in the bagt in the production car series...pity the procar rounds arent inline with the v8 supercars....what do you reckon ....historic tourers, v8 utes, gt performance, gt production, little aussie racers and they should bring in a new class...eb v8s verses vp v8s..instead of the 6cy falcon and commy there racing now.....is that a good support category to the v8s?

[fpv_gtho]

well realistically the costs should be lower if the categories support each toher. at the moment i think the agp, clipsal, bathurst, indy and VIP main event have support rounds. things like the V8 BRutes would have the biggest effect as a support round for the supercars

[SHAKER]

well the brutes, the gtp performance and production and nations cup are part of the procar championship where channel 7 have the rights, thats why we dont see channel 10 show nations cup or gtp, i thought the gt performance race at indy was the best racing id seen for ages...road cars racing on a high speed street circuit, with the slower speeds and smaller grid fields they actually had a lot of room to race and it made for some gutsy overtaking and braking menovres...i think the v8s have outgrown that track aswell as many others.

[fpv_gtho]

well its kinda hard to make a street circuit bigger to accomodate different cars, but im sure it would add some fun to the drivers with the way it is

[SHAKER]

well canberra was an absolute sardine can of a track, but i reckon it made for good tv, but apparently it lacked seating and public facilities, i wish theyd extend the adelaide track to the full lenght"formula 1" track, they should do it

[fpv_gtho]

i dont think i got to watch the canberra 400 whenever it was on, did the track go under other roads and such because if its the one im thinking of it looked like a pretty technical track

[SHAKER]

it did go under a tunnel type bridge, whether or not the bridge was part of the race track i dont know.yes it was a very technical track..if youve ever played v8 supercars on "x box or playstation", youd wonder how they ever raced around the track without hitting anything.(well most off them didnt hit anything)

[fpv_gtho]

well i think theyre always going to have certain problems like that on a street circuit, let alone one in the nations capital. if the canberra tracks the one from the dunlop add, then i remember seeing some cars go through what seems like quite an awkward corkscrew type section in the track

[SHAKER]

well the drivers couldnt of liked it that much, i didnt hear any of them complain when it was announced that they lost the canberra round.Mind you dj might of been a little upset, thats about the only track they had a victory in lately, so why are the djr falcons down on power then compared to years gone by?

[fpv_gtho]

well it hink he more than likely would have had victory because someone else had a downfall but he still deserved it. i'd say hes down a bit cause the cars are running slightly bigger brakes

[SHAKER]

im pretty sure the reverse grid helped them out a lot...dont know why youd want a reverse grid in what was the tighest track of the season though