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steven flanagan
04-30-2003, 12:13 AM
The new Ford GT looks alright but it only looks like the XR with a few extras chucked on. But I still think the new BA is a big improvement from the AU. What does everyone else think?

badboybarge
04-30-2003, 06:46 AM
i think that it's much better than the AU space buggy, they have made a huge improvement, they are a very nice looking car, especially the new GT

fpv_gtho
05-01-2003, 03:09 AM
if u only have a quick glance u probably wouldnt tell the gt from the xr8, but honestly, ive seen tons of xr6's and i have heaps more than a quick glance at them, with the amount of looks these cars wil get on the roads, people will see the differences. hey, can u tell me the visual differences between the hsv clubsport and hsv gts? the only one i know of is the alloys and the badges, not much, less than what the gt has over the xr8, plus the gt will have the optional stripes, so if u think its not visually different enough from the xr8, ORDER THE STRIPES! i would, but not cause the gt may not be different enough to the xr8, i just reckon the acid rush with black stripes looks oh so sexy!

steven flanagan
05-01-2003, 11:24 PM
I think it is only the mags and some changes to the body kit. Well I had a good look and thats all i can see.

escort mexico
05-02-2003, 03:52 AM
The BA is a big umprovement on the AU, which looked like a whale on steroids. The BA looks a lot meaner, at the front and the V8 racing car looks absolutely sweet!

escort mexico
05-02-2003, 03:52 AM
The BA is a big umprovement on the AU, which looked like a whale on steroids. The BA looks a lot meaner, at the front and the V8 racing car looks absolutely sweet!

badboybarge
05-03-2003, 08:04 PM
hey everyone,
me and one of my mates who dives a little hypa mica gemini were driving on nepean hwy the other day when a truck pulled up next to us. on it's back it had 2 BA XR6 turbos and on the very back it had the all new BA GTHO, OH BABY!!! it's a very hot looking car, the only thing im not too sure about was the rear spoiler, it was rather high off the boot and had 3 prongs holding it up, it might grow on me but it just looked a bit percular.
but like i said, one hot looking car!!!

badboy

fpv_gtho
05-05-2003, 11:35 PM
dont u mean gt or gt-p, cause the gtho isnt even in a concept form for BA, let alone production

badboybarge
05-06-2003, 06:50 AM
woops sorry, i meant gt-p

crisis
05-15-2003, 06:04 PM
A difference between the GTS and Clubsport that was overlooked is the 300kw Calloway motor compared to the 260kw in the Club sport. Both cars show similarities because they are part of the HSV line up. The GT-P vs XU look is like saying the SS looks similar to a Clubsport of GTS. They are quite different with HSVs being based on Berlina/Calais specs and having quite radical body kits. The GT GTP falcons look great but the GT stripe, forget it. If Ford wanted this thing to look more outrageous they should have gone further with the body kit ala HSV compared to stock SS. The GT-P does not differentiate enough, however the pricing of these cars reflects this. My friend fpv gtho is a little harsh demanding Holden to release the Gen4 in the VY when GM in the US is not using it yet. Further more the HFV6 plant has only been finished and when the motor becomes available in the next Commodore it will be a completely new design. The Ford 6 still owes its origins to an old design and the V8 which is dissapointing for all of the much touted technology, to a hybrid SUV/Mustang cut and shut. While Ford have spent a lot of money and played their hand as far as "new" engines go, Holden will play their hand with the next model with genuine new engines that should trump Ford yet again.

steven flanagan
05-16-2003, 05:00 PM
Originally posted by crisis
A difference between the GTS and Clubsport that was overlooked is the 300kw Calloway motor compared to the 260kw in the Club sport. Both cars show similarities because they are part of the HSV line up. The GT-P vs XU look is like saying the SS looks similar to a Clubsport of GTS. They are quite different with HSVs being based on Berlina/Calais specs and having quite radical body kits. The GT GTP falcons look great but the GT stripe, forget it. If Ford wanted this thing to look more outrageous they should have gone further with the body kit ala HSV compared to stock SS. The GT-P does not differentiate enough, however the pricing of these cars reflects this. My friend fpv gtho is a little harsh demanding Holden to release the Gen4 in the VY when GM in the US is not using it yet. Further more the HFV6 plant has only been finished and when the motor becomes available in the next Commodore it will be a completely new design. The Ford 6 still owes its origins to an old design and the V8 which is dissapointing for all of the much touted technology, to a hybrid SUV/Mustang cut and shut. While Ford have spent a lot of money and played their hand as far as "new" engines go, Holden will play their hand with the next model with genuine new engines that should trump Ford yet again. We were only talking about the visual difference but thanks for the effort anyway.

fpv_gtho
05-25-2003, 10:52 PM
who cars if the v8's a hybrid and the 6 has origins from the 60's, they work dont they? the hybrid v8 even makes power when released from the factory. as for the 6, its better than holdens supercharged unit in naturally aspirated form so its doin sumtin right

fpv_gtho
07-06-2003, 10:50 PM
has anyone rad the new performance fords magazine? they had the pursuit ute compared to the xr8 ute and were getting pretty good acceleration times, they had an average of about 5.9 0-100 for both and a best of around 5.7

LowRider
07-07-2003, 03:10 AM
The BA is a massive improvement on the AU which was as bad as the EA Falcon. I love the 260kw V8,
but I reckon that the VY Commodore has a mad front and a ok rear it will be interesting to see if Ford continue to make a good car for there next model or if they go back to making POS's.
I have a strange feeling the new VZ from Holden is going to be a beast and a half.
Anyone heard anything about it?????

fpv_gtho
07-07-2003, 03:24 AM
the AU wasnt that bad, it just wasnt the best looking thing around when released. when u ignored the styling, the AU was asctually better than the VT/VX

LowRider
07-07-2003, 04:06 AM
How was the AU better then the VX?
and if it was pitty the sales figures didnt show that

fpv_gtho
07-07-2003, 04:56 AM
it had worse driving dynamics, was built like a straw house, ancient suspension and an all iron v6 still being used. the sales didnt show that cause most people buy a car on how it looks, thats what drags them into the dealerships. many people when they tested the AU's and VT/VX's noted on the AU's superior chassis and driving dynamics compared to the Commo's.

LowRider
07-07-2003, 05:04 AM
Yeah fair enough mate. Im guessing you like the BA.
What do you think of that model?

fpv_gtho
07-07-2003, 05:09 AM
i love the BA, its just a pity about its weight. the performance is heaps better than the AU equivelants, except for the GT replacing the TE50, theyre running bout the same as each other. hopefully they pull enough weight out of them for 2004, and they dont sick the 6th ratioi in their new auto at about 0.5:1

LowRider
07-07-2003, 05:16 AM
hey mate couple of questions,
whats your favourite of BA Falcon and what did you reckon of the proformance hand Tickford?

fpv_gtho
07-07-2003, 05:24 AM
thats a hard one: favourite BA, i like em all, but id have to put them in order of price: GT-P followed by GT, XR8, XR6T, V8XT, XR6. with tickford i think they just underestimated their target market. the actual cars were terrific in T1 and T2 but they were one step behind HSV and T2 was only a challenge to the VX SS. T3 was a ripper though, but apparently at high revs, the origins of the engine were apparent

crisis
07-09-2003, 07:36 AM
Originally posted by fpv_gtho
the AU wasnt that bad, it just wasnt the best looking thing around when released. when u ignored the styling, the AU was asctually better than the VT/VX

How?

crisis
07-09-2003, 07:40 AM
Excuse my last post.

fpv_gtho
07-13-2003, 09:00 PM
has anybody heard about for the VY, holden are stating tare weight figures, not kerb weight figures which are making the commo seem about 80kg lighter?

adz10
07-21-2003, 05:41 PM
Originally posted by fpv_gtho
has anybody heard about for the VY, holden are stating tare weight figures, not kerb weight figures which are making the commo seem about 80kg lighter?

Yeah, if you read the latest Motor magazine (the one with the 9 way comparo b/w Holden and Ford), all of the Holdens are heavier than they are claimed by Holden.

Also a funny thing to note, was that the GT has a claimed 290kw, and it produced 225kw at the rear wheels, while the GTS has a claimed 300kw, and that only produced 223kw at the rear wheels.

Actually, the power figures by all of the Holden cars varied hugely.. like the Caprice, 245kw = 158kw at the wheels. The SV8 which was supposed to have less power at the flywheel, actually had more at the wheels than the Caprice

crisis
07-21-2003, 06:27 PM
The variations between the Monaro, SV8 and SS can probably be explained by the fact that they are mass produced components. I would not be surprised to see 5 SS Commodores return 5 different readings. This is why people blueprint motors. Only then do they match the exact specs of the prototype. The engine managment computers are also set to a generic setting. When the computers are mapped you can optimise the engine managment for the particular motor.

fpv_gtho
07-21-2003, 11:27 PM
its got to be an accomplishment for ford though, for in that test they only had 3 fords compared to 6 holdens and yet ford had 1st and 2nd. i think the caprice shouldve been kept out of it cause i know i dont consider it a muscle car

fpv_gtho
07-21-2003, 11:30 PM
Originally posted by adz10
Also a funny thing to note, was that the GT has a claimed 290kw, and it produced 225kw at the rear wheels, while the GTS has a claimed 300kw, and that only produced 223kw at the rear wheels.

i think that could be because of the GT's stronger midrange power and torque, cause i think in general, the BA's have slightly more drivetrain loss than the VY's

Nildo
07-22-2003, 04:16 PM
Actually the dyno doesn't lie. The new fords have a better drivetrain than VY Holdens and therefore less drivetrain losses. Remember that the chassis dyno MOTOR used produced a full power curve, but peak power was the only number recorded in the article. Mid range power and torque has no bearing on the final number.

Personally it is why I have always preferred Ford to Holden. As FPV stated, the AU was vastly superior to the VT-VX commodores under the skin. Ford has consistently built much better cars than Holden in recent years, except in the key marketing areas of V8 engine output and styling.

crisis
07-22-2003, 05:19 PM
Well wouldnt that mean that Ford has not consistently built better cars. Read a few posts on this site and get a feel for peoples feelings toward styling and you may see that styling is a fairly important design area. As far as the V8, they took advantage of a good, relatively cheap power plant from their parent company. You may view these areas as "marketing"areas however every manufacturer tries to design cars that sell. To continually argue that the AU was a better car than the VT-VX is futile and pointless. The majority of the car buying public didnt like them and neither did Ford themselves in the end. It was not only the exterior. The interior was critiscised, not only from a design point of view but also from a drivers seating position aspect. What Ford have now is a vast improvement in every area.

fpv_gtho
07-22-2003, 11:12 PM
Jacques Nasser was the one to blame for the AU's styling as he was the one who pushed to incorporate Fords "new wdge" designing of the time for american and some european vehicles like the focus, mondeo etc and look where that left old Jac

LowRider
07-23-2003, 01:30 AM
Did that bloke get fired? and anyone know who designed the VY Commodore? could it have been the same bloke mabey?

fpv_gtho
07-23-2003, 01:37 AM
Jacques Nasser was the head of Ford Oz and left to take ova Ford Global just b4 AU went on sale. sometime late 2001, he was fired and replaced by William Clay Ford Jnr. ova the Explorer/Firestone lawsuits in America. the man who designed the VY was Mike Simcoe and he recieved alot of shit when people said it looked like the Magna. now Geoff Polites is head of Ford and with things like FPV, the BA and E265/Territory, is getting Ford earning profits again and closer to large car market share, and hopefully with the release of the Focus, and 2004 release of the Fiesta, may get Ford back as number 1 in the sales

LowRider
07-23-2003, 01:45 AM
Good they should both get fired, and about ford getting no.1 on the sales they have a good chance but give them a few more years then the might get there

fpv_gtho
07-23-2003, 02:25 AM
well last financial year, the BA hadnt even been out for a year and Ford oz were already back making profits. which do u thinks gunna be more successful: the territory or aventra (i think thats what its called)

LowRider
07-24-2003, 12:23 AM
yeah it is called the adventura ummm good question holden havent really had a good 4wd in a while and fords explorer had a couple of problems. The adventura is a good looker id say it looks better then the territiory. Id say the adventura only because im a Holden fan. what about you?

fpv_gtho
07-24-2003, 12:26 AM
i think the adventura, or adventra whatever its called will struggle against the territory because the holden is clearly a jacked up commo, whereas the territory, although has a ford oz look to it, doesnt look like a falcon

LowRider
07-24-2003, 12:40 AM
Any pics of the territory?

LowRider
07-24-2003, 12:42 AM
Hey its more like a jacked up Calais or Berlina. but theres nothing wrong with that.

fpv_gtho
07-24-2003, 12:46 AM
this ones a pic ford oz secretly took of their test drivers testing on fraser island beaches

LowRider
07-24-2003, 12:49 AM
ehhh not bad but it looks to bland. I reckon the Holden looks better

fpv_gtho
07-24-2003, 12:51 AM
yeah but ford hasnt realeased pic of the version carrying the turbo six yet, that one may end up meing more like R7 with its 20 inch wheels and sharp styling

crisis
07-24-2003, 12:53 AM
They are both wanks. No good as road cars and no good as 4wds. Not that it matters muchat the moment.

LowRider
07-24-2003, 12:54 AM
Turbo six on a 4wd what next V8 in a focus?.
if that has 20 inch wheels that would look really really really good

fpv_gtho
07-24-2003, 12:55 AM
crisis u need to realise that a good 4wd doesnt mean a diff lock and all round beam axles. ford or holden arent making these for die hard 4wd fans

fpv_gtho
07-24-2003, 12:57 AM
the turbo six is going in because the front axle doesnt fit with the v8. theres no big deal about the t6, holden claims just less power and more torque

crisis
07-24-2003, 12:59 AM
Sorry, you know what im like about things like that.

fpv_gtho
07-24-2003, 01:01 AM
yeah u and me had a similar convo about the irs under the commo wagon and in the new 4x4'a coming out etc

adz10
07-24-2003, 01:17 AM
I like the territory more, but the R7 concept was the best. Those wheels and the lights made it look absolutely stunning for a 4wd. The adventura just looks like a big commodore, and i think that will be its downfall.

fpv_gtho
07-24-2003, 01:19 AM
in holdens defence, ford did spend twice as mcuh as ford did, maybe holden r gunna set it more apart from the commo when the VE commo comes

crisis
07-24-2003, 08:03 PM
Despite my predjudice I like the Commodore version better. The Territory looks a little bland. Especially when the BA design has so much going for it. Ford have gone out on a limb with this because by launching it as a completely new design , as well as dropping it in the current sea of these things means it better be really good at whatever the hell it is supposed to do. I still dont get the point of these type of things. If they are so wonderful how did we possibly get by without them 5 years ago? Wheels took a 200k Porsche up to the Flinders Ranges and ripped bits off. They cant do anything as good as a dedicated sedan or 4WD. I would like to hear from someone who has purchased a "soft roader" and find out their reasoning behind their decision.

LowRider
07-25-2003, 12:26 AM
Yeah some one finally agreed with me. thanks crisis

fpv_gtho
07-27-2003, 03:25 AM
r u sure crisis u dont like the adventra over the territory cause the adventra's gunna have a leaf sprung rear end and the territorys got a control blade irs rear end?

crisis
07-27-2003, 04:17 AM
The Adventra will not have leaf springs. And I prefer coils anyway. I wouldnt have either but I thinks the Holden looks better. Thats purely subjective.

fpv_gtho
07-28-2003, 12:25 AM
i read somewhere theyre gunna use a live rear axle and leaf springs for better wheel travel and load capacity

Falcon500
08-10-2003, 04:46 AM
these vehicals are perfectly parctical for their intended markets they are for the familys that have 1 kid and view it nesicery to own a car that can seat 7 and only gets 15l/100km in the ford design brief they are buuilding a car that is more of a road going vehical not an off roader and with holdens track record of doing things that aventura thing will probably have more problems then a lada

fpv_gtho
08-10-2003, 06:44 AM
i was actually surprised to hear the territory had a completely different chassis to the falcon, unlike the adventra/commodore

crisis
08-10-2003, 06:12 PM
Leaf springs generally have less wheel travel than coils. If its the same chassis as a Commodore it would be way too expensive to change to Leaf. Leaf springs give a harsher ride and these type of cars are intended as soft roaders.
Falcon 500, If you want something to drive on the road that fits seven people, buy a Tarago or similar. And Im not sure what your perception of Holdens track record is, although Falcon 500 gives me a hint, but if Holden gets the same result they have with Commodores, Statesmans and Monaros, they will sell heaps and export them. Cant see a problem with that really.

fpv_gtho
08-11-2003, 02:25 AM
i dunno if uve realised yet or not crisis, but people are buying cars like the territory and adventra to fit 7 people rather than tarago's cause no-one wants to be seen in a tarago. if it was that simple to just buy a car only designed to seat 7 people, cars like the terrotory and adventra wouldnt be getting developed by large car companies

Falcon500
08-11-2003, 03:38 AM
my preception on holdens track record is the fact that that 10% of gen 3s have been replaced and that a further 5% have been rebuilt and the fact that there is a forecast of a further 10% being future problems and the fact that their exported holdens mainly the ones that went to saudi arabia kept breaking down the fact that they are using suspension that was canned by opel 22 years ago and also the fact that their suspension also lets water and and is alredy getting people having to replace them because of rust and the fact that the commadore is according to statistics one of the most liely cars to break down on our roads
and also living next to a school you see the people who are likly to by an aventura or territory their called mothers on a mission and they buy vehicals that really impractical i acutaly cant see why the dont get a station wagon if they want to seat a lot of people it was just an observation
and you were spot on in that last comment fpv_gtho they wouldent be building them if they wernt needed

fpv_gtho
08-11-2003, 03:49 AM
thanks for that but u need to learn to put in a couple of commas or full stops, i almost died of asphyxiation from reading u comment. it was 4 years ago ford realised they needed a product like the terrotory. i also missed the part where holden currently use an engine first released in 1976 and rear suspension first seen in 1978. in 10 years, fords gunna be laughing cause theyll have developed their dohc v8's heaps further than today and gm will be trying to find ways of keeping their pushrods economical. the only reason the the dohc falcon v8s can only keep on par with the power outputs of the gen3's is cause the falcon is the only mass produced ford car using the dohc 5.4L v8 for high power output use so there hasnt been much development going into it. maybe the ford gt using the supercharged version will bring some extra development to the engine

Falcon500
08-11-2003, 04:04 AM
well "apparently" ford aus is trying to make another stab at worlds fastest 4 door sedan and the car that currently has that is a twin tuboed bently it will be intersting to see how well they do against it. And im assuiming that GM will find the same problem that ford did in the 40s when ford didnt want to let go of the flathead and GM used a push rod motor and ran rings around it but time will tell on both counts

fpv_gtho
08-11-2003, 04:30 AM
ford oz should use the new 5.0L coming out for the next mustang. have it rev to about 7000rpm, that should be easy if they can get the 5.4 doing 6000rpm

Falcon500
08-11-2003, 05:03 AM
i think its possible but theyll have to breathe some life into that 5.4 to make it go to 6k revs not a revvy motor so im told

fpv_gtho
08-11-2003, 05:08 AM
u must be thinking of the 3 valve 5.4 cause the XR8 and GT go to 6000rpm and the 2001 cobra R can go to 6250rpm. every tester whos taken the boss to 6000 has said they didnt realise it was redlining because of the smoothness of the engine

Falcon500
08-11-2003, 05:25 AM
ok then in this case im glad to be wrong. but im thinking take a 390 hp cobra R motor (2003) takke it out to 5.4 whip a little more boost out it and a few more goodies like that and well have somthing worthy of being out HO motor

fpv_gtho
08-11-2003, 05:30 AM
sounds like about 400kw t the fly. ford oz should develop a centrifugally supercharged 5.4 with C.A.P.A. for the GTHO. C.A.P.A. have an 8psi kit for the xr8 with cat back exhaust that makes about 390kw at the fly and theyre working on an 11 psi kit. the 8 psi kit blew their expectations so much they developed a 5 psi kit that makes 340kw

Falcon500
08-11-2003, 05:40 AM
yeah heard about that cant wait till they make the 11 psi kit and couple it with a foew other mods exaust,computer and so on.
And did you hear about the Roman auto-tek gullwing ute? they are planning on 600kw from the 5.4 engine twin turboed and they are working on a 450 kw twin turboed 6!:eek:

fpv_gtho
08-11-2003, 05:43 AM
yeha i heard bout it, its gunna have a 450kw twin turbo 4.oL and probably a supercharged, 900kw 5.4L

Falcon500
08-11-2003, 05:58 AM
900 :eek: thats a mythical number unless your eddy tassone but im thinking the new BA Xr6T will be the new VL with 300 kw achieved by putting a new computer piggy back system and whipping an extra lbs of boost out of it with no other mods rb engines eat your heart out :)

fpv_gtho
08-11-2003, 11:24 PM
900kw=1200hp, u can check it up on this site, thats what the xr8 versions gunna make

crisis
08-12-2003, 12:41 AM
Your so called facts come from where? The problem with the Gen II I'll give you but not your figures. If their exports kept breaking down they wouldnt keep selling them. Saudis have no loyalty issues like Holden buyers and can choose what they want. Again where's your facts. That the so called "canned suspension" is still able to hold its own with the BA new version means it far from obsolete. One reason Opel may not use it is because they make front wheel drive cars. I have never heard of the water leak problems. (I own one and its been pissing down here for the last three weeks or more.) Again with the most likely car to break down comment where are your facts. My mate owns a service centre and does work for a Holden and Ford franchise and he has more problems with Fords than Holdens. Keep in mind there are more Holdens running around. I'll conceed the softroader point, the're built because they are the fashion at the moment. I dont personally care what car someone buys but I am interested to know why someone would. I still think they will be a passing fad.

crisis
08-12-2003, 12:44 AM
Sorry the my last post refers to Falcon500 comments bottom of previous page.

Falcon500
08-12-2003, 01:41 AM
well its notlike the suadis really have a huge choice in cars do they and they relly did continously keep breaking down they cant with stand all the driving the saudis put onto them the engiens over heated somthing fierce and they continuoilsy break down why they keep selling them i dont know maybey they do have brand loyaly like they do here otherwise they wouldent sell any Gen III powerd cars and that was a write up in wheels magazine.
Hold its own now thats a laugh a holden hasnt been able to out handle a falcon since 94 and no they dumped the suspension due to new technologys being made and also not all of cars are fwd the speedster inst and it uses much better suspension then the shit that holdens sticking too and the water leak problem is highlighted in street machine when they pulled aprt the holdens suspension to put those 24 inch reat tyers in and and it came gushing out. My facts the fact that open road placed it as the most likly austrlain sedan to break down 2 years running. And working on a car you dont like would seem much worse eh? id be assuiming that your friend is a holden fan

fpv_gtho
08-12-2003, 04:13 AM
yeah i dunno where u got that bit about the suspension from crisis, i mean the old double wishbone irs ford had was better than the semi trailing arm setup used by holden and ford still got rid of it

Falcon500
08-14-2003, 05:47 AM
well according to the new flacon thing when they were slowly relaeasing info the controll blade was ligther and a smoother ride

fpv_gtho
08-14-2003, 05:55 AM
yeah i know that but my point is that ford replaced something of theirs that was superior to the holden equivalent with something even better still. apparently the control blade irs can have sprts ride characteristics without sacraficing a sports ride, like when they compared the g220 and ghia fairlanes, the only suspension difference they could tell was the sports edge on the g220 and thought they were as comfortable as each other

crisis
08-14-2003, 06:17 AM
Originally posted by Falcon500
And working on a car you dont like would seem much worse eh? id be assuiming that your friend is a holden fan
I have'nt read the sources of your other points so theres no point my arguing. My freind has worked for Nissan and Holden dealerships and on thousands of cars over the years. He will criticise anything that he sees repeatedly present as a problem. He rates Toyotas highly for quality, Nissans to an extent, hates Mitsubishis. He works on plenty of Holdens because there are plenty around and he gets work from the dealership ( and a Ford dealership) . Therefore he would have plenty of reason to find fault with them which he does. They do not however present more problems than any other car. For that try Hyundais, Mitsubishis. Alfas etc. Holdens arent perfect but sweeping statement like you make are not true. True lemons will not sell despite clever marketing and any other bullshit you want to come up with.

crisis
08-14-2003, 06:29 AM
Originally posted by fpv_gtho
yeah i dunno where u got that bit about the suspension from crisis, i mean the old double wishbone irs ford had was better than the semi trailing arm setup used by holden and ford still got rid of it
I wont deny Fords current system is better than Holdens (although I only know what Ive read of the Ford and what my mate told me after driving one (the mechanic)). The "old" Holden system is seen as inferior by comparison. The main criticism is that of steering feedback which the Ford apparently has in abundance. If you only read the last paragraph of a review you will get the impression that Ford wins and Holden suspension is not as good. All comparisons in motoring magazines will give you a first , second , third etc outcome. If you read the full review you will find that both have good points. If you read all of the reviews you will find differing opinions on the same car. Again, all Im contesting is the assumption that because the basic set up of the Holden suspension is older, it does not neccesarily follow it is crap. I'll bet the so called same system in a 20 year old Opel would not have a chance against a VY Commodore. I know my VH, VP, VS COmmodores did not handle anywhere near as good as my current one does.

Falcon500
08-15-2003, 05:42 AM
true lemos do seel where do you think the leyland p76 went? the leyland marina?the ford edsel the AU flacon? its just takes longer holden has taken a huge credability hit with all its aging technolgoy and the $40,000 lemon write up in today tonnight thats why their sales are slipping

fpv_gtho
08-15-2003, 05:52 AM
the edsel ford wasnt a lemon, it was a corporate blunder. they spent as much as ford did on the BA falcon way back 50 years ago and it flopped

Falcon500
08-15-2003, 06:01 AM
and it was actualy a good car too it just didnt have a market a real shame

fpv_gtho
08-15-2003, 06:04 AM
kinda like the AU, it was released to a market that hadnt been exposed to something styled like that. just look at the new camry, commo and magna and try and say they dont have bold styling like the AU did

Falcon500
08-15-2003, 06:13 AM
the commo is basicly a case of ssdd when the magna and the camry have styling ques from it and i also like the camrys bootline it remids me of the p76 its so high and doesant really match the low drooping bonnet

fpv_gtho
08-15-2003, 07:23 PM
can you elaborate on what ssdd means

Falcon500
08-16-2003, 04:58 AM
Same Shit Done Diffrently

fpv_gtho
08-16-2003, 05:31 AM
k i get ya

Falcon500
08-17-2003, 03:21 AM
according to my old man europeans loved the looks of the au wether is holds any truth or nots another thing but it seems euro looking cars are the going thing right now i cant say im hooked i think the Te50 was so popular becuase it looked more like a mustang but of course this all my own opinion

fpv_gtho
08-17-2003, 03:26 AM
the europeans had the focus and mondeo which shared the same "new edge" designing enforced by jacques nasser

Falcon500
08-17-2003, 04:44 AM
thatll do it i dont get why people rave on about how ugly the au was it wasnt pretty but far from ugly and also theres the fact that pictures dont do any cars justice i rember when i first got to have a close look at my brother (then) new au II xr8 ute and i got a cheack list of what the wheels blokes complain about only 2 were noticble and the rest went into the pointless winging section which is why i dont get wheels often the even winged pointlessly in the 60s "the studebakers seats arnt really long enough at the base" yet if they were any longer itll be harder to drive because it would be all the more cramped

crisis
08-17-2003, 05:49 AM
Originally posted by Falcon500
true lemos do seel where do you think the leyland p76 went? the leyland marina?the ford edsel the AU flacon? its just takes longer holden has taken a huge credability hit with all its aging technolgoy and the $40,000 lemon write up in today tonnight thats why their sales are slipping
The internal combustion engine is aging technology. Anyone who gets their info from Today Tonight is going to struggle with credibility. If you really think VT,VX,VY are lemons you are just another blind marque follower. The P76 and Marina died in the arse. How long were their production runs? Although the alloy V8 in th P76 was not a bad engine for a pommy motor. That where technology can sometimes get you in the wrong market at the wrong time. I will concur on your later post that the AU was not as ugly as most people think. Not an actual beauty but the barrage of criticism seemed a little ott.

Falcon500
08-17-2003, 05:59 AM
i personaly view that journalisum in gerneral lacks credability espcaily wheels the bunch of wingers. But still they provided me with ammo and i dont think you could aargue with all the unhappy owers on the report can you? an i perosnly know 2 people with SS utes ones had to motor rebuilt one replaced both still have problems and also a guy who bough a maloo ute who brought his car in for a service and cheaked the oil and it was almost empty (thats probly a dealer error though) i also find the attutude behind the holden dealers not good as in they dont allow test drives for monaros i quote " a monaro driver doesnt need to test drive they already know what they want" and also whats with the base model being called executaive even you have to admit thats a little off and the commadores are great cars with problems i dislike them becuase ive seen what the rollercoaster of such cars has put their owenrs thourgh having a new car that needs a new dont and bireng put in line to get it fixed and the uncaring attitude of the dealers

Falcon500
08-17-2003, 06:00 AM
i also think that one of holdens biggest mistakes wasd getting rid of the 302 a good strong motor with no major problems like the gen III

Falcon500
08-17-2003, 06:02 AM
304 sorry

crisis
08-17-2003, 06:11 AM
So while you deride the old fashioned suspension of the Commodore your happy to see them stick with an archaic cast iron V8 from the 60s. The 304 would not see which way a comparable Gen III went. The problems with the Gen III are solved. The way Holden dealt with them initially was piss weak. I would have been spewing. But dealers are another matter. If you want to start naming cases it will get very boring. Like any sales people you need proper training. I have only met three car dealer sales people that I would bother dealing with again. Several Holden dealers knew less about the VY when it came out than I did. I didnt even get the training. As for the Monaro sales man you could have had a field day with that prick. It is not a relfection on the cars however.

Falcon500
08-17-2003, 06:18 AM
yep sure fixed i know a bloke in a holden dealer and he said its going to take a little bit longer for the gen III in the VY to start playing up again the only beefed up a handfull of things i sure hope hes wrong i dont actualy take any pleausre in seeing cars break down and owners in tears, i only take pleasure in shit stirring one eyed fans

Falcon500
08-17-2003, 06:19 AM
yep sure fixed i know a bloke in a holden dealer and he said its going to take a little bit longer for the gen III in the VY to start playing up again the only beefed up a handfull of things i sure hope hes wrong i dont actualy take any pleausre in seeing cars break down and owners in tears, oh and the genIII is more mdodern get real its still the same basic desgin from the 60s just with more bells and whistles

fpv_gtho
08-19-2003, 12:12 AM
looks like ford and prodrive just agreed to keep fpv goin till 2008

crisis
08-19-2003, 12:13 AM
Originally posted by Falcon500
yep sure fixed i know a bloke in a holden dealer and he said its going to take a little bit longer for the gen III in the VY to start playing up again the only beefed up a handfull of things i sure hope hes wrong i dont actualy take any pleausre in seeing cars break down and owners in tears, i only take pleasure in shit stirring one eyed fans
right back at ya

Falcon500
08-19-2003, 12:24 AM
:p i dont actualy know how that last one got posted i decided against it due to bad taste :D

fpv_gtho
08-19-2003, 04:44 AM
do u reckon ford should use the alluminium block instead of the iron block in the gt? if they want more revs they should probably stay with iron to keep the pistins inline, but if theyre gunna keep the gt as it is, maybne they should go to alluminium to take some weight off the front axle and help its corner entry speeds and exit speeds, although its 400nm at 1000rpm probably helps alot

Falcon500
08-19-2003, 05:24 AM
well ford did have some trouble wit the alloy motor before i hanvent heard anymore news on that front but im thinking the alloy block would be more then adiquite if they sorted the problems they had with the 03 cobra R

fpv_gtho
08-19-2003, 05:27 AM
umm, the 03 cobra had an iron block cause of the factory supercharger and the 4.6 block is maller than the 5.4 block

Falcon500
08-19-2003, 05:59 AM
was it really cast iron? so what was the deal wirth the cobra Rs then the had a lot of toruble with them at the start

fpv_gtho
08-19-2003, 06:04 AM
i dunno, but theyve got a smaller intake and rev slightly harder than the gt so there would be a few problems id say. ite funny how ford actually has 2 different, 500hp supercharged v8s

Falcon500
08-19-2003, 06:15 AM
yeah a parts sharing plan seems in order here

Falcon500
08-19-2003, 06:20 AM
and also as an after though what about the tourqe figures are they any diffrent and what about the revs 500 p @?

fpv_gtho
08-19-2003, 06:29 AM
well the 2001 cobra r i think has 525nm, but it has less power, even though both that and the gt are quoted at 290kw, the gt has claims of being underated and producing more power as the km's increase

Falcon500
08-19-2003, 09:19 PM
well im thinking the only way were going to find out is to see how well they preform on the track i guess

fpv_gtho
08-19-2003, 11:26 PM
u dont need to send them to the track to find a winner, the mustangs 200kg lighter than the falcon

crisis
08-19-2003, 11:43 PM
You gentlemen may want to check out the latest Motor magazine. An add from a turbo tuning company is claiming 300kw+ out of a suitably massaged XR6t.

fpv_gtho
08-19-2003, 11:47 PM
god im far from a gentlrman, im only 15, and like i havent seen a BA get ova 300kw with minor mods

crisis
08-20-2003, 12:22 AM
I would imagine they are looking and increase in boost, recalibrating aspects of engine management, obligatory exhaust, possible intercooler upgrade.

fpv_gtho
08-20-2003, 12:39 AM
my last post didnt really come out how i meant it, i meant to say its not as if i havent seen over 300kw with minor upgrades. gapa have several kits for the xr6, up to about 17psi which i think makes about 340kw and for that they replace the air to air intercooler with an air to water unit to inprove radiator airflow. theyre also working on an 11 psi supercharger for the xr8 which will make about 440kw with a cat back exhaust

Falcon500
08-20-2003, 08:48 PM
yeah and that xr8 kit is everything else stock other then the bloody cat and i think they beefed up the clutch too

fpv_gtho
08-21-2003, 04:12 AM
they didnt touch the clutch, but capa offer 425hp, 550hp, 685hp and 1000hp clutch kits. they also offer full exhaust upgrades including the headers. id like to see them play around with an 11psi kit on the gt.

Falcon500
08-21-2003, 04:37 AM
id like to see them go all out on a gt the entier package thatll be a sight to see

fpv_gtho
08-21-2003, 04:41 AM
imagine the bulge in the bonnet needed if ford wanted to fit a two stage induction on the boss like that fitted to the bara182 and barra240t

fpv_gtho
08-21-2003, 04:47 AM
did u hear the one about how capa had to change the stage 1 supercharger kit for the xr8 to the stage 2 kit cause of how much it blew their power expectations out? they came up with a 5 psi kit that has 340kw for those who dont need to overtake 99.9% of the cars out there

Falcon500
08-21-2003, 05:28 AM
yeah its amazing the what they got out of the thing when they boosted it as i said id like to see them go all out full exaust rework,chip,head work all that sort of shit itll be a total wepon

fpv_gtho
08-21-2003, 05:34 AM
i dont think much more can be done to the chip, the xr8's ecu is working at the max i think, so the gt would be the same. ud only find more power out of a less restrictive exhaust, supercharger/turbo, cold air intake. u wont find any power out of engine efficiency though, thats why its extra revs or supercharging being talked about for a ho version

crisis
08-21-2003, 09:34 PM
The engine management systems on stoc cars and even the FPV and HSVs are still quite conservative. They have to tread the balance between performance, economy and emissions. With the right software you can effectively change what ever you want. There would be plenty of room to move with the one on the XR8 for any one who can work out the code.

fpv_gtho
08-21-2003, 09:56 PM
umm, crisis, motor magazine said when they tested the capa xr8 that upgrading the chip on the xr8 was pretty much useless

crisis
08-21-2003, 10:25 PM
It may be because they cant. If Ford are like Holden, they would not allow anyone exept maybe FPV to have the code to the software. It is only recenlty that LS edit has been available and that is something that has been "cracked" by some propellerhead somewhere. Even so LS edit only allows adjusments to a narrow band. CAPA probably use a unichip or some variation that only allows marginal access.

fpv_gtho
08-21-2003, 10:29 PM
it was motor magazine that said it, not capa, and capa only offer a piggyback chip, not a remap of the timing etc.

Falcon500
08-22-2003, 04:58 PM
well i rember hearing that holden use a seriously downtuned chip compared to what the camros run which is incidently what the hsv's are using it wouldent suprise me if we could bolt on the chip say from a mustang and we might find some improvments there

fpv_gtho
08-22-2003, 06:58 PM
my brother wants to stick a cobra r ecu on a falcon gt to get rif od the speed limiter and go 300km/h

Falcon500
08-23-2003, 03:56 AM
well your brother wont have warrenty for very long wither though id like to see what numbers some of the hotted up cobra Rs are getting in america just to see what we could make from ours

fpv_gtho
08-23-2003, 04:07 AM
warranty wont save the car from anything me or my brother would put it through

Falcon500
08-23-2003, 04:41 AM
well to each their own i would treat a 60k odd worth of car like my first born child to be quite frank any thing going wrong on it would break my heart as well as my bank balance

fpv_gtho
08-23-2003, 05:27 AM
yeah well at the end of the day it still only be a car

Falcon500
08-23-2003, 05:50 AM
yeah buty still its a pretty exclusive car and its also considerd the car that saved ford (BA) and is also the most prestigous model avaible i think ill some how make do

fpv_gtho
08-23-2003, 05:53 AM
how can u call a mass produced car exclusive? even with australias comparatively low car manufacturer outputs theres still plenty around. u want an exclusive car? try finding an XA falcon gt rpo 83, theres only 39 left and they go faster than a phase 3

Falcon500
08-23-2003, 06:01 AM
well i wouldent call them common either and then their is the large portion of peiople who would get at you for fiddling with it but any ways im happy enough looking at the old mans XW GT and hes 65 studebakers their exclusive enough for me and also the rpo XAs are more glamour then anything else their track record isnt really impressive and allan moffat loved them so much he used his XY GTHO for a 3rd year

fpv_gtho
08-23-2003, 06:05 AM
they never raced the rpo 83, since it had a factory option that made it fastr than the phase 3, kinda like the tri power option on early model pontiac gto's

Falcon500
08-23-2003, 06:32 AM
and any ways their olnly stories the landaus had phave IV running gear too and apprently some XDS manged to get it as well be careful quoting stuff like that its mosly hear say with little or no evidence to back it up

fpv_gtho
08-24-2003, 02:12 AM
whats only stories, the 750cfm carb package on the xagt?

Falcon500
08-24-2003, 05:01 AM
if its mostly stories its really a loto their are severl cars which alegedly have phase IV motors in them

fpv_gtho
08-24-2003, 07:05 AM
fpv.com.au have an archive on hi-po falcons and for the XA GT they mention the XA GT had an option, called regular price option 83, that was added because the media wouldnt allow ford to market a phase 4 GTHO. it was a 750fcm carb, slightly smaller than the one fitted to the phase 3 (780cfm), but the lighter XA body compensated.

Falcon500
08-25-2003, 04:54 AM
atally the XA was heavier especially the 2 door the XYGTHO weighed in at 1400 flat mine weighs almost 1320 when my brother bog stock XB basicly the same as an XA with no electric windows or nothing weighed damn near 1500 kilos

fpv_gtho
08-25-2003, 05:45 AM
yeah well i remember reading that the reason the gtho phase 4 was so special was because it ran the phase 3 engine in a lighter body. i reckon the XA's lighter than the XY from looking at the two of them. ya cant be sure until u compare an xa gt's weight to an xy gt's weight

Falcon500
08-25-2003, 06:37 AM
my old man owns an automatic XW Gt fully loaded and its lighter then a standerd XA 4 door with no options its is heavier believe me mate and its pshyically bigger too the only place its not bigger is roofline which is slighly lower

fpv_gtho
08-25-2003, 06:40 AM
there u go again, not directly comparing the cars in question

Falcon500
08-25-2003, 06:53 AM
well the XW GT is heaveir then the XYgtho in queastion and the XA is still havier nnow do you see the realvince?

fpv_gtho
08-25-2003, 06:55 AM
if thats the case then, surely there wouldnt be enough weight between them to make any diference

Falcon500
08-25-2003, 06:58 AM
no beacuse the XA for a long time was the haviest falcon ever built the shave weight off by the XD but gained it again by XF with odds and ends

fpv_gtho
08-25-2003, 07:02 AM
the XD only had the weight taken out of it to save fuel cause of increasing prices as a result of the oil crisis, where the government forgot where all the oil was

Falcon500
08-28-2003, 06:12 AM
yeah which was sparked by holdens (compartily) light VB,C model holden was going on about large usage of plastics in the constriction saving weight so for made a oplatuic fuel tank the first in production in this country which really socked it to them

fpv_gtho
08-29-2003, 01:51 AM
i thought it was the first car in the world with a plastic tank. the vb was about 1400kg, so it would have been heavy for its size still

Falcon500
08-30-2003, 04:04 AM
Yeah the VB was a fair weight but holdens cars have always been a fair weight the Kingswoods inspite of being smaller and well seeming quite fragile were heavier then falcons. And on that note about first i have no idea but im using the quote ive seen in the ford sight first local with a polymer tank.

fpv_gtho
08-30-2003, 04:11 AM
the xd falcon, being wider than the vb, would have been a better performance car, but cause of the oil crisis ford couldnt inject any serious muscle into the car.

Falcon500
08-30-2003, 04:15 AM
Well the phase 5 apprently did exist for a short while and their was the John goss XD very uncommon and the ESP cars and the dick johnson turbo 6s and their was penty of one offs but nothing common.

fpv_gtho
08-30-2003, 04:17 AM
yeah but all those except for the fairmont esp wouldve been too expensive for what they were.

Falcon500
08-30-2003, 04:29 AM
Yeah but look at a brock commadore the cars they were aimed at they wertn cheap either.

fpv_gtho
08-30-2003, 04:32 AM
but the brock commodores were made so that he could use them in the supercars

Falcon500
08-30-2003, 04:38 AM
Thats what the phase 5 was about it was a body kit and a flash motor if you want a Falcon like DJs flacon ask for a pahse 5 kit with no reverse scoop.

fpv_gtho
08-30-2003, 04:41 AM
yeah but the brock commodores would have been for homologation purposes. i think the phase 5 was only a concept anyway. the ablsolute top spec xd i know of is the 5.8 ghia esp

Falcon500
08-30-2003, 04:49 AM
homiglation wasnt actully needed in group C days hence sweet **** all in the ammont of phase 5s built asnd the usage of the kits in raceing

fpv_gtho
08-30-2003, 04:51 AM
im pretty sure homologation was needed right until 93

Falcon500
08-30-2003, 05:00 AM
they didnt need any homiglation fopr group A (international) which repalced group C and holbbled ford compitition with a gutless mustang the we couldent do much toountill the sirera came along but all that aside then how were they able to use the phase 5 kit if it wasnt homiglated ina model?

fpv_gtho
08-30-2003, 05:02 AM
the phase 5 was only a concept car, they didnt make anything from it

Falcon500
08-30-2003, 05:23 AM
more then a concept but not much more then a run of a handful

fpv_gtho
08-30-2003, 06:32 AM
and where are u getting all this from

Falcon500
08-30-2003, 07:15 AM
persoanl reasherch out of intrest i found out their was around about 10 made and about 50 genuine kits some of which went on the John Goss specials and the rest went to race teams and a few special orders.

fpv_gtho
08-30-2003, 07:29 AM
i think if ford really did make a phase 5, theyd make over 100 of them and not in a kit. if they were reluctant to put the gt badge on the BA, 200 years ago they wouldntve made a phase 5 kit

Falcon500
08-30-2003, 08:19 AM
Thier are a lot of problems in manufacturng xcars eg oil crisis which effectivly canned most of the flash v8s on offer and why make more then 100? Its a still born car much like the phase 4 and GT-rx the differnce with the phase 5 is a lot of people will not accept it as a real car which in this case is not the fact.

fpv_gtho
08-30-2003, 08:22 AM
maybe they wont accept it because its a kit, not a proper package released from the factory

Falcon500
08-31-2003, 03:49 AM
Look kid it was a genuine option it just fell through with the oil crisis and lack of intrest notice a massive decline in fords intrest in performance from then untill it picked up a little with the EB

fpv_gtho
08-31-2003, 03:59 AM
they lost interest cause the 4.9 and 5.8 used too much petrol and if ford tryed to make them use less, theyd be less powerful than the 6's. ford wouldnt put phase 5 model id's on a car that wasnt a gt, or on a car at a time where petrol prices were rising. the oil crisis started in america in about 72 and only started taking affect in australia in 76. its not like the case with the phase 4 where they were building them as the problems arose. the xd wasnt out yet and we were already running short of fuel

Falcon500
08-31-2003, 04:23 AM
True that but they really started rationnalising by the time th new model came in hence the revolutianry build of the new plastic fuel tank. They used too much fuel for the time we really felt it by the 80s it had the world in a panic look at mustang IIs my falcons 250 non X-flow 6 has more power vettes were so piss weak they were the first build that didnt flex because the motor was so weak.And it isthe case as they were bulding them problems arose hence only a few built and 100 kits it was the wrong car for the time there were a few realesed by dealers but only a few is a stillborn car like many others before and after it.

fpv_gtho
08-31-2003, 06:01 AM
ur makin it sound like it was a last hope at getting v8 buyers b4 they wouldnt have lost sales for dropping the v8

Falcon500
08-31-2003, 07:27 PM
Well thats what most image building cars do isnt it? Look what the GTHO did for ford in the 70s or the monaro in the currant market or holdens sucsess in the v8 super cars and look at the band aid that fords current sucsess in v8s and the new GT is doing for their sales. The ESP's were nice cars but they didnt stir the public so try a new GTHO but part of the way through it turned out it was the wrong car for the wrong time it wasnt finacily viable and ford then decided to wean the v8 away in the hope of getting more sales to the goverment fleets which lost the intrest of the public without a v8 in the line and having no sucsess in the currant racing catagory International Group A touring cars untill the Sierra enterd the picture and a year after the catigory doed the reemergance of the v8 in an EB and it still took many years after that 96 to get back to the top of the sales chart so from top to bottom of the big manufactores no they didnt loose no sales!

fpv_gtho
08-31-2003, 11:42 PM
i still say that ford wouldnt have used the gtho badge on a pruductino car at such a time when they new it was in jeopardy and just as an image boosting car. im sure if when ford released the BA, that ifthey said they wanted and image boosting car, no-one would have stuck their hand up and suggested the return of the gt

crisis
08-31-2003, 11:56 PM
Ford made the right decision waiting for a car worthy of the GT badge. They would have looked stupid applying it to something as a stop gap measure. Holden dont even use their GTS badge, instead leaving it for their premier limited production HSV cars.

fpv_gtho
08-31-2003, 11:59 PM
what about the gts coupe, that isnt a limited production model? holden have less reason to be careful where they put the gts badge, the gt badge started the muscle car era in australia and the gtho badge pretty much ended it, at least for the serious muscle cars

crisis
09-01-2003, 12:15 AM
The GTS is not limited production although they would not be built in huge numbers due to their price. They still represent the "ultimate" Holdens. They may not, in your opinion , need to treat the GTS badge with as much care as Ford with the GT , however the fact that they do ensures its value is not diminished.

fpv_gtho
09-01-2003, 12:18 AM
yeah i get what ur saying

danno
09-10-2003, 03:37 AM
Originally posted by crisis
Ford made the right decision waiting for a car worthy of the GT badge. They would have looked stupid applying it to something as a stop gap measure. Holden dont even use their GTS badge, instead leaving it for their premier limited production HSV cars.

they did apply it to the falcon b4 AU. it was a very bad descision. it was a crap car. they woulda put it on AU probably but they stuffed the last effort up so they werent game enough to try it again till they had a better car to put it on. now they do have a better car. i only hope it can outclass the GTS and new clubsports.

fpv_gtho
09-10-2003, 03:55 AM
the 1997 el2 gt was only an anniversary edition, not a permanent model, and like the cobra, as soon as they were put on the market, they were sold out. the only thing holdeing the new gt back from beating the clunsport is the fact u have to change gear practically right in 100km/h and as u pass 400m, so the acceleration tests suffer

danno
09-10-2003, 04:04 PM
Originally posted by fpv_gtho
the 1997 el2 gt was only an anniversary edition, not a permanent model, and like the cobra, as soon as they were put on the market, they were sold out. the only thing holdeing the new gt back from beating the clunsport is the fact u have to change gear practically right in 100km/h and as u pass 400m, so the acceleration tests suffer

ok if its anniversary then its all right but they should have at least done a proper job on it. maybe the f150 lightning engine.

fpv_gtho
09-10-2003, 10:09 PM
it wouldnt have fitted. i dunno what the difference between the au and el engine bays are, but the BA has a taller engine bay than the au, and the GT needed a bulge. the little scoop the elgt had was only an add on, so it wouldnt have made extra engine room

Falcon500
09-11-2003, 04:45 AM
the au and el is quite similar but we probly didnt have th kknow how then it took ford ages to make a special paint that alloewd the current v8 to slip between the towers.

fpv_gtho
09-11-2003, 04:47 AM
the 5.4 boss doesnt just drop into the BA either, theyve got to put it in from underneath

fpv_gtho
09-11-2003, 04:49 AM
and plus, since its got double wishbone frint suspension, it doesnt really have towers

Falcon500
09-11-2003, 02:14 PM
You got me there but they had to shoe horn it in with an unmarkable paint that allows it to "slide" through.

fpv_gtho
09-11-2003, 05:04 PM
yeah im not saying what u said was wrong, im just saying that "techinically", the BA doesnt have strut towers cause its got wishbones, but yeah they needed something funny on the heads to slide the engine in

Falcon500
09-12-2003, 02:56 AM
you see those test hack TE50s they used with the 4.6s what do you think happend to them?

fpv_gtho
09-12-2003, 05:52 AM
teh only test hacks ive seen are a red BA with black bonnet and black tape on things like the dipps ofr the eadlights in the bumper and driving light holes, and a red AU3 xr8 with silver bumper. i doubt ford took the development fro the 4.6 in the falcon to the point where they were testing real world. just looking at the torque band and and running computer simulations wouldve suggested it was too weak for the falcon. if they did exist though, theyd be lying around you yangs somewhere i guess

fpv_gtho
09-12-2003, 05:55 AM
and they had to stick a funny type of slippery tape on the rocker covers when they fitted the engine rather than a special paint

Falcon500
09-12-2003, 06:22 AM
Ok then bu i saw those Te50s when they tooke the tape off and the garbage bags and they looked sweet i hope they build them. And it was a tape i though only back yardies ficed prblems with tape :rolleyes:

fpv_gtho
09-12-2003, 06:26 AM
well its only to help get the engine in so it doesnt have to be permanent. i think what your talkin bout with the te50's is a pic o saw where this guy was in like a warehouse of all of ford oz's 302's left and they all looked like they just came out of the box from america.

Falcon500
09-12-2003, 03:40 PM
Well i was being sarcastic about the tape hence the :rolleyes: But no on the thing about the te50s there was a white and a bklack on that had the bonnet bulge and some re-worked spoilers and very thickly tinted windows it looked kewl. :cool:

fpv_gtho
09-12-2003, 05:22 PM
where'd u see it

Falcon500
09-13-2003, 03:00 AM
I think it was wheels but i have seen them in motor also but the problem with that is that was around where i stopped getting for free therefore i only got them when they really grabbed my attention!

fpv_gtho
09-13-2003, 03:43 AM
well the only close up pic ove seen of a test mule, was in motor, where as i said before, it was red BA with a black bodykit, standard headlights, black bonnet hiding the bulge and black tape hiding the area in the bonnet where the xr/gt headlights protruded. in the background of that was the au2/3 xr8 with silver front. that was in the special on the gt in the december issue of MOTOR, with the SSX on the front cover

Falcon500
09-13-2003, 04:27 AM
ok fair enough but if my mate gets the te50 he wants ill hope he modifys it like the one i said.

fpv_gtho
09-13-2003, 04:35 AM
TE50's are gettin pretty cheap now that the BA's out

Falcon500
09-13-2003, 06:09 AM
Yeah thats true i saw one parked on a flats lawn with a for sale sign slapped on it suprised the shit outa me.

fpv_gtho
09-13-2003, 08:19 AM
a series 1 te50 with the series 3 engine and bodykit wouldve been alright, cause the series 1 and 2 te50 were based on the fairmont or fairmont ghia, and the series 3 te50 was based on the xr8

Falcon500
09-14-2003, 03:25 AM
well that just ment it was based on somthing more sporty whats the problem with that?

fpv_gtho
09-14-2003, 03:31 AM
i cant see how the falcon forte which the xr8's interior is based on is more sporty than the fairmont ghia.

Falcon500
09-14-2003, 04:34 AM
Well fairmonts are more luxurious and softer then a fortay but the XR8 is just a plian better set up and a better base for performance as in its all be worked to already be superior.

fpv_gtho
09-14-2003, 06:16 AM
well its not like the series 1 and 2 te's came into tickfords workshop as farimont ghias and left as what they are and the series 3 ones entered as xr8's. its only the interior im talkin about and the xr8 wouldve been cheaper than the ghia. they made the te50 a cheaper looking car in the series 3 and tried to set it further apart from the ts, as the series 2 ts didnt have much over the te anymore, whereas the series 1 had 20kw more power, so in the series 3, they needed a big difference between the 2 like they did in the series 1 cars, so they stuck a cheaper interior in the te

Falcon500
09-15-2003, 03:08 AM
well their isnt a problem with the Te50s interior isnt not elctrically adjusted so what the seats arnt as good as the luxo barge ones? they are supportive enough! there isnt really anything wrong with the car and aslo the Te50 is also the lightest and the cheapst hence the most sportiest.

fpv_gtho
09-15-2003, 03:14 AM
a series one ts50 would be lighter than a series 3 te50 though, theres only about 20-30kg difference between the series 3 te and ts. plus, climate control and more electronics wouldnt go astray. i wouldnt really call a fairmont ghia a luxury barge anyway, even though it is pretty luxurious

Falcon500
09-15-2003, 03:55 AM
Dont forget the equasion 1 kilo is = to a gain of 1 hp the fairmont giah is luxuary on a budget as they say im just repeating it.

fpv_gtho
09-15-2003, 04:38 AM
the fairlane ghia and fairmont ghia are probably actually pretty close on specification level and just have rear leg room seperating them apart interior wise, especially in the BA where the fairlane doesnt have a unique dashboard

Falcon500
09-15-2003, 04:58 AM
So the only siffernce is the fake wood trim or the chrome trim on the G220? i wonder if theyll make a BA T series? Maybey that could be like the GS model?

fpv_gtho
09-15-2003, 06:00 AM
interior wise pretty much, but the g220 also scores the sports tune suspension, but cause of the setup of the control blade irs, its as soft over bumps as the luxury setup but will make it easier to push the g220 through corners

Falcon500
09-15-2003, 08:58 PM
Well on that note the G220 is supposed to be the sportiest model in the fairlane range but even with all the fals odds and ends it still is a fairlane just with beffed up suspension and some nicer (my opinion) trim.

fpv_gtho
09-15-2003, 11:19 PM
well im half in agreement with u. it does have the v8 standard, but the v8 is on 220kw, same as the standard falcon xt or fairlane ghia v8. it would have been better to make it like 240kw, if they want people to deter from buying a caprice, which the g220 and ltd are marketed against

fpv_gtho
09-16-2003, 11:17 PM
now that holdens incresed the sv8 and ss power outputs to 245kw, and im pretty sure its the berlina and calais to 235kw it would be logical to up the power for the barra220 to keep it competitive, after all, its a $5000+ option on the XT

crisis
09-16-2003, 11:59 PM
Is the 220kw BA a three valve head and the GT 290 a 4 valve?

fpv_gtho
09-17-2003, 12:01 AM
yeah the barra v8's a 3 valve head and the boss v8's are a 4 valve head

crisis
09-17-2003, 12:10 AM
Will be interesting to see what Ford can squeeze out of the 3 valve then. It is intersting that the standard Gen III has been turned up to 285kw in the Clubsport making the full on Calloway head GTS version only 15kw tougher. Wonder what they have in store for that one?

fpv_gtho
09-17-2003, 12:13 AM
id say theyd only be minor things. the engine's developed byt callaway and they get it out of the box at 300kw so theyd be limited in ways of tuning, but exhaust enhancements liek what theyve put through the rest of the range shouldnt be out of reach. i think the biggest power upgrade the gts is gunna get is when it gets the gen4, whenever that is. i read somewhere that it could be as late as 2007, but i dont think it would be that long

crisis
09-17-2003, 12:19 AM
The exhaust thing sounds like BS. I rekon they give the engine management a tickle. The Gen4 is due in the next Corvette which I dont think is too far off. One version is suposed to have a 6.8lt.

fpv_gtho
09-17-2003, 12:24 AM
i think theyre gunna make a 6.2L, 6L, 5.5L and 5.2L version of the gen4. i just found the part in the latest wheels magazine and it says the gen4's gunna be out in 2 valve form around 2005 and the 3 valve head wont be here before 2007.

crisis
09-17-2003, 12:40 AM
the 3 valve is quite a monstrosity. See if they can pull it off. They maintain it is cheaper than OHC though. Certainly more compact.

fpv_gtho
09-18-2003, 03:27 AM
well i think theyre wasting their money trying to push the pushrod design further and further. it will pay off for them if they can start refining an OHC design as soon as possible. ford america's had the OHC 4.6 and 5.4 for some years now, and the 4.6 is getting pretty good, but they only use the 5.4 in the f-series so theyre not too worried about more power from it, which is a disadvantage to us. the only serious car theyve put the 5.4 in was the cobra r, and now hopefully with the new gt and svt lightning coming out with the 4 valve motor, theyll put more money into developing it further

Falcon500
09-18-2003, 04:17 AM
as i said before GM might find istelf in the same position ford was when they didnt let got of the side vlave motor. Im wondering what the new gen 4 woukld be like itll be interesting to see.

fpv_gtho
09-18-2003, 04:23 AM
well i heard a while ago its gunna increase to 6.0L and have 320kw top of the line, but a couple of weeks ago i heard theyre gunna try make about 4 different sizes, starting from about 5.2L. anyone who complains about the extra inertia in a pushrod design over an OHC design would have a field day with the gen4, based on the computer image of the valve layout ive seen

Falcon500
09-18-2003, 05:20 AM
with the extra cam and only a single extra valve itll add a huge drag on the valve train.

fpv_gtho
09-18-2003, 05:23 AM
they must be expecting to overcome that with the performance benefits from the extra valve

Falcon500
09-18-2003, 05:41 AM
Expecting or hoping?

fpv_gtho
09-18-2003, 05:44 AM
id say we're hoping, theyre expecting

Falcon500
09-21-2003, 03:44 AM
Well put enough maney and reserch in and i suppose itll be a better motor then the one they currently use though i am doubtful on how well it will react to modifactions with its larger reciprocating mass and so on and itll take nearly a year for even the most basic of upgreade to become avilable.

fpv_gtho
09-21-2003, 05:32 PM
i think only the most advanced stuff would take a year, but things like exhaust and intake would almost be carryover from the gen3, and any mods needed wouldnt take long to develop

Falcon500
09-22-2003, 03:06 AM
yeah thats why the lexus quad cam is one of the most popular new v8s and modifying parts are expensive and as rare as rocking horse shit! Its all a matter of supply and demand if its a popular motor it wont take long if its a dog itll take many years. And most might carry ovver but if its any physically bigger that will throw a spanner in the works new cars already make a big effort to "squeaze" things in (thats why it takes 4 hours to change the exaust in you BA XR8)

fpv_gtho
09-22-2003, 03:10 AM
yeah but the xr8 isnt actually a good design, cause its a car that had an engine dated from the 30's replaced with an engine developed less than 10 years ago

fpv_gtho
09-22-2003, 03:13 AM
plus, i think the modifiers havent woken up to the method ford use to get the extractors on. there arent actually holes holding the extractors on, just grooves that allow them to slide on with the nuts already on the bolts

pato
10-07-2003, 01:42 AM
being a holden man i hate to admit the BA is actually a good car, both in looks and in build quality and a good new set of engines

fpv_gtho
10-07-2003, 02:47 AM
well when the VT commodore comes out with such shocking build quality its easy to credit other cars for having good build quality. its a pitty ford havent matched the gear ratios to the revs of each engine as good as they could. the gt's second gear tops out at about 102km/h, which when testing 0-100km/h, lets the car slow down towards the end, plus the barra220's second only reaches to about 92km/h

pato
10-07-2003, 03:43 AM
the VT commodore was the best selling commodore ever and absolutley dominated the sales at the time? shocking build quality? check out the ford XR6T forums and count how many ppl had strange noises from the drivetrain and how when they go for their interval services they ford dealers just wave away the problem

fpv_gtho
10-07-2003, 03:46 AM
the VT commodore was such a success because of its exterior styling. the same thing made the AU falcon such a blunder. the VT was the best selling commodore because of the high interest fleet and government buyers took. private buyers would account for between 10-20% of sales, so something like public image does alot

pato
10-07-2003, 03:52 AM
for whatever reason it sold more than the AU cause it was a better car

it may have been the better looks
it may have been better value
it may have been better performance

either way it was better!

fpv_gtho
10-07-2003, 03:59 AM
many people agree it was only the exterior styling that made the VT and AU lose and gain sales. underneath the skin, the AU was a better car, trust me. the au's six cylinder engines were more powerful and had heaps more torque than holdens engines, which came straight from the us. the au's irs was a superior system to the dated system used by holden

pato
10-07-2003, 04:00 AM
sales dont lie

fpv_gtho
10-07-2003, 04:05 AM
true but the sales came from buyers seeing the good looking curves of the VT bodyshape and not looking further to see the bad quality of the car. sales dont tell whether a cars is good or not, thats why people have comparisons.

pato
10-07-2003, 04:11 AM
bad quality? thats why we have comparisons?

well i think that the fact that th VT commodore won the wheels car of the year wen it was released (the biggest comparison of the year) speaks for itself

fpv_gtho
10-07-2003, 04:17 AM
the VT was a huge step in australian motoring, it has to be expected to win some awards. wheels also make bad decisions when giving out awards too you know, theyve given the camira car of the year before. can you name any cars released new in 1997 that wouldve given the VT stiff competition? last year when the falcon won it was under stiff competition from the mazda6 and honda jazz. when a car's sales goes mainly to fleet sales, it is up to the comparisons to find the faults of the car.

pato
10-07-2003, 04:23 AM
no1 at wheels would take back the award from the VT, and the camira was a good little car in its time

fpv_gtho
10-07-2003, 04:26 AM
giving the camira the car of the year award is probably the biggest regret at wheels, one theyve admitted freely a number of times

pato
10-07-2003, 04:30 AM
well they havent about the VT

Falcon500
10-07-2003, 05:37 AM
The camira was australias 2nd worst car (the worst being the leyland p76 which wheels also gave an award!) it had Fatal engine problems and interior quality issues that made a HQ look well put together. They also gave an award to the VN they also admited that was a huge mistake im beginning to think they award it by chook lotto! Oh and in the smoking section they have been bashing the car a hell of a lot latelypicking up on the cars short comming as my old man says wheels does whatever it can to stir up the public and make more sales and they also winge somthing i cant stress more (as you all well know)

fpv_gtho
10-07-2003, 06:04 AM
my dad owned a camira not long ago. talk about gutless. it ended up at a wrecker

Falcon500
10-07-2003, 07:00 AM
Where they all belong :D and to think that motor and gear box lives on today and the current dawoo lineup! talk about sad thse cars have nothing to them no subframes rear drum breaks and they dont even paint the engine in primer! just the bare cast iron being born off to the world! and yeah talk about gutless also and annoying go to turn on the blinkers and the ****ing wipers end of wizzing up and down the wind sheild!

fpv_gtho
10-07-2003, 07:20 AM
wouldnt the block rust up pretty quick without primer or anything on it? or isnt cast iron succeptible to rust, i havent got a clue, im no metalurgist

Falcon500
10-07-2003, 07:40 AM
Most certianly is I found the scarist part was people buy that shit!If you want to knock oolder cars have a look at the equipment it has! makes the datsun 1000 look potion packed!

fpv_gtho
10-07-2003, 06:01 PM
u sure do like them datsuns