Top Gear tonight

[Vaigra]

Zonda F just topped the top gear track records with a 1 min 18.4 second lap, beating the MC12 by 0.5 seconds
Just showed a tribute to Richard Burns, legend :)

[P3RG4R3C]

It's a shame we don't get BBC2 here. :(

[Guest]

Zonda F just topped the top gear track records with a 1 min 18.4 second lap, beating the MC12 by 0.5 seconds
Just showed a tribute to Richard Burns, legend :)
now on italian supercars for under £10,000

[Vaigra]

Maserati Merak! :D
"It's not a kit car!...Phillistine.." lol about the Lambo..

[Jack_Bauer]

Maserati Merak! :D
"It's not a kit car!...Phillistine.." lol about the Lambo..

Are we really gonna get a commentary through the whole show?! :p

[Guest]

Are we really gonna get a commentary through the whole show?! :p
yes!! Dodgy italian supercars at Castle Coombe aka "The Car-Breaker" racing against the stig in a diesel astra

Update:Captain Slows got smoke and oil coming out of his Lambo!

Update x2:Richards rear-view mirror has come off his Ferrari!

Update x3: Don't think JC likes his Maserati, oh no, the brakes have gone! and the coolant!


Now their taking their cars to the dyno, seeing how many horses these cars still have!

Ferrari>250 Hp>194 Hp=56 Hp Gone
Lambo>222 Hp>117 Hp=103 Hp Gone
Maserati>190 Hp>80 Hp=110 Hp Gone!

Which do you think is the best?

[Vaigra]

Are we really gonna get a commentary through the whole show?! :phell yeah! it's a Merak SS!!:D:D
lol no, just thought I'd mention it and let people know it was on etc.

[Jack_Bauer]

hell yeah! it's a Merak SS!!:D:D
lol no, just thought I'd mention it and let people know it was on etc.

Lol, apparently not! :D

An early example of supercar ricing methinks! :p

[Guest]

Whats the difference between a Merak and a Merak SS?

£38!

EDIT: Did you know JC is a doctor?


I Have Not Had My Teeth Whitened!!!

Captain slows been quoted £5,000 to insure his car, that half what it's worth!

[adamfraser]

He isnt a doctor, he just said it to get his insurance down.

[Guest]

He isnt a doctor, he just said it to get his insurance down.
no, he was made an honourary doctor by some stupid university

[Jack_Bauer]

He isnt a doctor, he just said it to get his insurance down.

He IS technically a doctor. He was awarded an honourary Doctorate by some University or other for contributions to something or other. :rolleyes:

Though obviously he isn't a Dr by profession so he DID lie/cheat.

[adamfraser]

When?

[Vaigra]

Ellen McArthur tops the time sheets! :eek:

[adamfraser]

NOOOOOOOOOO! A woman at the top?"!?!?!?

[6'bore]

haha. Ellen Macarther (can't spell it) is the fastest ever celebrity around the track.

[Guest]

Ellen MacArthur is the new fastest person round the track! (Damn! How did you all get there before me? it was only annonced like 10 secs ago!)

Now for the race!

Wing mirrors folded in!

Were off!

Bike in the lead!

Hand brake turn!

Car in the lead!

Bike down the stairs

Clios hit the wall!

Bikes got the lead agen!

Bike on long set of stairs

Bike jumps over the clio

Clio hits chairs!

few hundred metres to go!

bike beats car by 10 secs


Persmission to say "oh c***" on bbc2

All this from captain slow!

JC's engine (back to the supercars) is dying, so much so hes been ovetaken by a motorhome!

JC is a Doctor in engineering twice! But can he change a sparkplug?

JC is narrowly beaten by Hamster in the mechanics event

After some cheating, ??? won the parking event, May slamped into someone elses car, but only because the cars were moved to be to small for his car

Jc's Maserati's engine and brakes have died, and he has now crashed into a bush!

Hamster is starting to run out of fuel

Hamster Ferrari is dead, the Lambo of captain slow has done it! although, its smoking, no, hes in a traffic jam! think of the electronics! The trafic jam is because of his car!

veyron's On Next Week!!!! My Christmas Present Has Come Early!!!!

[Guest]

When?
wasnt it when he got a pie in the face?

[Vaigra]

10 posts in a row..
the Maserati hasn't done it..it's the Lamborghini, and it's also conked out.

[adamfraser]

Good episode. HAHA at jeremy's Maserati.

Veyron race next week, theyre racing Captain Slow flying a plane! hould be good :D

For gods sake Jakg, couldnt you put them in the one post?

[Niko_Fx]

JakG, stop it.

Zonda F beating the MC12? Love it! Can't wait to watch this episode.. (In 2 years and in crappy quality on the internet)

[adamfraser]

Niko, i can get the episodes tomorrow/tuesday. PM me for link :D

[Jack_Bauer]

JakG, stop it.

Zonda F beating the MC12? Love it! Can't wait to watch this episode.. (In 2 years and in crappy quality on the internet)

I'm sure the best bits will be downloadable from somewhere earlier than that. Hope so, as I really wanna grab a soundbite or something of that Zonda's exhaust note, it was absolutely AWESOME!!! :eek:

Sadly the Zonda review was a bit of a short one. I'm guessing they shot more but probably cut it down to fit in that lovely tribute they did to Richard Burns. I'd rather they'd chopped a bit out of the £10k supercar feature to make way, but nevermind.

[adamfraser]

Ok, if anyone wants the full episode, PM me. Must eps are out by tuesday, and have good download speeds, in om 512k and getting 60+kb/s with these links, and they are good quality 350MB files.

[Matra et Alpine]

jeesus guys will you shut up and just watch the fecking show !!!!!!

[6'bore]

Seriosuly Jakg. Do you have a life?

[Jack_Bauer]

Seriosuly Jakg. Do you have a life?

Of course he does. It involves posting on UCP as many times as possible per day. That's probably about it tho. :rolleyes:

[Vaigra]

Of course he does. It involves posting on UCP as many times as possible per day. That's probably about it tho. :rolleyes:
ooh a mean mod! :eek:
:p

[Jack_Bauer]

ooh a mean mod! :eek:
:p

You startin? You wanna take this outside?

Me and my bruv'll sort you out proper! :mad:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/1630000/images/_1632716_robson_enders_150.jpg

;)

[Guest]

guys, im fixing it!

Update:Fixed It

[RazaBlade]

Classic, only on UCP can a conversation about a Zonda F digress to involve the Mitchell Brothers... superb!!

Was a good episode, classic car shootout was hilarious. Congrats to Zonda F, creamed the Enzo in supercar terms, 0.5s is huge.

Cannot wait for the Veyron!!!!

[Vaigra]

You startin? You wanna take this outside?

Me and my bruv'll sort you out proper! :mad:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/1630000/images/_1632716_robson_enders_150.jpg

;)
lol, so which one's you?
can you handle me and my brother?
http://www.thedigested.com/img/random/marioluigi.jpg

[Jack_Bauer]

lol, so which one's you?
can you handle me and my brother?


Pffft, I'm more scared of your bird, Princess Toadstool! :p

http://sss.empiredx.com/biographies/images/peach.png

[derekthetree]

A great episode of top gear. i love the ones where all three of them are in competition. always good for a laugh.
This one almost beat the time they had to buy a sportscar for a grand or thereabouts and JC bought a clapped out porsche 928 and attempted to do a burnout but failed miserably

[Sant'Agata]

Spoiler alert?

[h00t_h00t]

The title didn't hint to the contents of the thread?

When are they showing the hill climb between an Austin Healey Sprite and some ricers?

[Sant'Agata]

I thought it would be a preview...

[Guest]

Seriosuly Jakg. Do you have a life?
Not really!

[Wouter Melissen]

The bit with the Maserati, Lamborghini and Ferrari was completely rediculous. Clarkson destroyed that engine on purpose and according to your usual remarks he should be shot. If john doe had crashed a car he should be hung from the highest tree, but now that Mr Jeremy Clarkson did it, it's entertainment. His antics were pathetic and rediculous. A similar thing happened to the Uracco, which was again damaged on purpose. If they don't like these cars, they can bash them all they went, but destroying them like this is just sad.

What happened to the good old 30 minutes Top Gear, which took the micky out of the great Vauxhall Vectra and friends? If I want to watch the Jeremy Clarkson show, I'll tune into his talk show. In the good old days the cars were still the key subject. Now I am reassured that missing an episode is no loss at all.

[Spastik_Roach]

A great episode of top gear. i love the ones where all three of them are in competition. always good for a laugh.
This one almost beat the time they had to buy a sportscar for a grand or thereabouts and JC bought a clapped out porsche 928 and attempted to do a burnout but failed miserably

Well it was an automatic 928....

[drakkie]

The bit with the Maserati, Lamborghini and Ferrari was completely rediculous. Clarkson destroyed that engine on purpose and according to your usual remarks he should be shot. If john doe had crashed a car he should be hung from the highest tree, but now that Mr Jeremy Clarkson did it, it's entertainment. His antics were pathetic and rediculous. A similar thing happened to the Uracco, which was again damaged on purpose. If they don't like these cars, they can bash them all they went, but destroying them like this is just sad.

What happened to the good old 30 minutes Top Gear, which took the micky out of the great Vauxhall Vectra and friends? If I want to watch the Jeremy Clarkson show, I'll tune into his talk show. In the good old days the cars were still the key subject. Now I am reassured that missing an episode is no loss at all.

so true. i used to LOVE top gear, but in the last series, entertainment and ratings are more important as anything else. maybe i wont even watch next week (for the first time in 4 years:()

[Matra et Alpine]

I can see the upset as I have some of it too.
BUT, they were NOT difficult to find cars, plenty of them around and there WERE some serious problems. So someone would have needed to invest LOTS of money to make these viable cars.
There are LOTS of people who dream of having an exotic or low volume car and buy what they can afford for it to never to get sorted. I think the snippet is a salutory lesson to those folks ( I've personally benefitted often by Matra owners who make this mistake having picked up spares for the cost of collecting the loosely-connected bits off someones driveway :) ) So in that respect it may have had some journalistic value !!

Of course they then go and destroy that argument with the stupid (but funny?) bit with May parking.

What I want to know is did the villagers lynch them for speeding down those streets ? At least the cops shoudl have fined them for dangerous driving on public highways !!!

[UCR]

Jakg you are the saddest person on ucp.

Thought the show was great, its a shame some people have to have to moan about it.

[Wouter Melissen]

Jakg you are the saddest person on ucp.

Thought the show was great, its a shame some people have to have to moan about it.

So you think destroying perfectly fine classic cars with high school antics is great entertainment? The thrashing the Uracco in the parking folly and continuing to drive the Merak with a rough sounding engine should hurt any well meaning enthusiast. This episode has shown that these guys clearly are no enthusiasts, but instead a bunch of clowns who care only about getting a good laugh about thrashing cars. Imagine being a Merak owner watching the tool thrashing it like that. It's pathetic.

[UCR]

So you think destroying perfectly fine classic cars with high school antics is great entertainment? The thrashing the Uracco in the parking folly and continuing to drive the Merak with a rough sounding engine should hurt any well meaning enthusiast. This episode has shown that these guys clearly are no enthusiasts, but instead a bunch of clowns who care only about getting a good laugh about thrashing cars. Imagine being a Merak owner watching the tool thrashing it like that. It's pathetic.
Yeah i know what you mean. Theres no need to trash the cars like that, but the reason for it is to keep the viewers entertained and you have to realise that and it wont change.
Just accept whats going on and try to enjoy the less painful parts.

[Matra et Alpine]

Imagine being a Merak owner watching the tool thrashing it like that. It's pathetic.
Well it does depend Wouter.
The Merak owner may be laughing realising that it's the only sensible act as the engine would cost tens of thousands to repair.
And the SMART ones will contact the show and buy the scrapper for the rest of the mechanical bits :D

It's a fine line ... when they destroyed Toyota Truck it didn't bother you, when they fired a Jag off the end of an aircraft carrier it didnt' bother you.
Clearly if they trashed an original Ferrari 250 we'd all be up in arms. All we're getting upset about is that for some they've stepped in to teh cars we enjoy. The same feelings being expressed now are probably true for Toyota lovers way back then :D I'm getting close to ones that woudl upset me too, but not yet :D

[Clivey]

So you think destroying perfectly fine classic cars with high school antics is great entertainment? The thrashing the Uracco in the parking folly and continuing to drive the Merak with a rough sounding engine should hurt any well meaning enthusiast. This episode has shown that these guys clearly are no enthusiasts, but instead a bunch of clowns who care only about getting a good laugh about thrashing cars. Imagine being a Merak owner watching the tool thrashing it like that. It's pathetic.

Exactly, they should buy the car for £10k and the challenge should then be to see how much they have to spend to restore it to factory condition. :)

How many perfectly good cars do they have to trash on that show? I know the supercars had seen better days but we're forgetting May ramming someone else's car (it may be a Nissan primera but that's not the point). if that was my car they were ramming into they'd be collecting their teeth off the pavement...they're as bad as parisiens (been there, done that...got the wing mirror smashed off a brand new car).

"No it's not a kit car, Philistine!"

[Wouter Melissen]

Yeah i know what you mean. Theres no need to trash the cars like that, but the reason for it is to keep the viewers entertained and you have to realise that and it wont change.
Just accept whats going on and try to enjoy the less painful parts.

This skid apalled me so much that I can't take anything these kids in grown-up costume say seriously. They lost me as a viewer ...

[Clivey]

Well it does depend Wouter.
The Merak owner may be laughing realising that it's the only sensible act as the engine would cost tens of thousands to repair.
And the SMART ones will contact the show and buy the scrapper for the rest of the mechanical bits :D

Good point but what heppens to the Merak he was driving? if that was me I'd WANT to see that car as it was when it left the factory, not destined to sit rotting in a scrapyard with Fiesta diesels and Nissan Bluebird taxis.



It's a fine line ... when they destroyed Toyota Truck it didn't bother you, when they fired a Jag off the end of an aircraft carrier it didnt' bother you.
Clearly if they trashed an original Ferrari 250 we'd all be up in arms. All we're getting upset about is that for some they've stepped in to teh cars we enjoy. The same feelings being expressed now are probably true for Toyota lovers way back then :D I'm getting close to ones that woudl upset me too, but not yet :D

Oh yeah it's definitely a fine line, then again there are far more Toyota Hilux pick-ups around than Meraks. As for the Jag, not my personal taste but that doesn't mean I don't know exactly what you're talking about. I'd much rather see another Ford Scorpio get trashed than an actual car :D. So you could say I wasn't even entertained by the Jag or the supercars getting trashed. One thing they do do though is have the cars (like the supercars last night) in the studio after, does anyone know what happens to them after that?

[Wouter Melissen]

It's a fine line ... when they destroyed Toyota Truck it didn't bother you, when they fired a Jag off the end of an aircraft carrier it didnt' bother you.
Clearly if they trashed an original Ferrari 250 we'd all be up in arms. All we're getting upset about is that for some they've stepped in to teh cars we enjoy. The same feelings being expressed now are probably true for Toyota lovers way back then :D I'm getting close to ones that woudl upset me too, but not yet :D

I have never been a particular fan of the recent thrashing of all sorts of cars. They probably need those gimmicks to fill a full hour. They sure as hell didn't when there was only 30 minutes to fill.

[Matra et Alpine]

Good point but what heppens to the Merak he was driving? if that was me I'd WANT to see that car as it was when it left the factory, not destined to sit rotting in a scrapyard with Fiesta diesels and Nissan Bluebird taxis.
But that's the reality of ownership until it gets down to only a few hundred left. In many case in teh 50/60/70s we have LOST all but one or two of a car because of that reality.
I've struggled over the years saving Bagheeras from the scap yeards till you realise that you have 3 and the parts of another 2 and have to stop sometime. So the last one I got "donated" went to the scrap yard after removal of the small and known hard to get parts :D
None of these cars were THAT rare or important - but as noted before getting close to my threshold !

[Matra et Alpine]

I have never been a particular fan of the recent thrashing of all sorts of cars. They probably need those gimmicks to fill a full hour. They sure as hell didn't when there was only 30 minutes to fill.
The program is a financial success for the BBC, unlike the latter yeas of the 30 minute slot.
If a bit of stupidity to attract the chavs is the price to pay to see the Stig and the other interestign articles which highlight the plus and negative of cars then it's a small(ish) price to pay.
I still wonder how many Ferrari owners went to pick up their 612s and told the salesman that if the wiper makes a noise he will ask for his money back :D and I'm betting Vuaxhall LOVED them for the exposure fo the fun side of the Monaro :D

[henk4]

The program is a financial success for the BBC, unlike the latter yeas of the 30 minute slot.


One of the poorer arguments to watch it then:D

[Matra et Alpine]

One of the poorer arguments to watch it then:D
So you think the days of Noel Edmunds on Top Gear were a highlight ????

Liek most things, we only remember the good of our history :D

[henk4]

So you think the days of Noel Edmunds on Top Gear were a highlight ????

Liek most things, we only remember the good of our history :D

you missed the point: The fact that the programme is a money raiser for the BBC does not make it automatically a programme to watch. Our commercial TV shows many programmes that get a high number of viewers, but that I refuse to watch:D

[Matra et Alpine]

you missed the point: The fact that the programme is a money raiser for the BBC does not make it automatically a programme to watch. Our commercial TV shows many programmes that get a high number of viewers, but that I refuse to watch:D
I was only pointing out that having a few fun items and approach which makes it a winning series and attracting audiences - which then makes it appealing for companies to allow them to for example drive 612s across Europe and the up-coming Veyron !!
Small penalty :D
Without commercialism we'd be back in the Noel Edmonds days :(
NOBODY watched it then and the prorgam died !!!
Better a well-cooked steak and cheap wine than a Big Mac :D

[henk4]

Without commercialism we'd be back in the Noel Edmonds days :(
NOBODY watched it then and the prorgam died !!!


in the Noel Edmonds days there was a still a British Car industry that needed to be cuddled.:)

[Matra et Alpine]

in the Noel Edmonds days there was a still a British Car industry that needed to be cuddled.:)
yep the Austin Allegro needed all the cuddling that could be given :D
Maybe with an aggressive TG around they'd have known better than to produce cars that bad !! Though maybe not as it didnt' stop the stupid Rover city thingie :D
The Stag coudl have been a success if the fast-boys of the day saw past teh badge and were shown what it could on on track with Stig's grandad driving !!!!!!!!

[Clivey]

But that's the reality of ownership until it gets down to only a few hundred left. In many case in teh 50/60/70s we have LOST all but one or two of a car because of that reality.
I've struggled over the years saving Bagheeras from the scap yeards till you realise that you have 3 and the parts of another 2 and have to stop sometime. So the last one I got "donated" went to the scrap yard after removal of the small and known hard to get parts :D
None of these cars were THAT rare or important - but as noted before getting close to my threshold !

Good man, well done...:)

I know that we can't dictate to people what to do with their property but it really annoys me to see nice and rare cars being abused. The amount of people I've seen buying these sorts of cars and then abusing them is insane, especially when there are people that would jump at the chance to own and care for one.

This is unfortunately a negative side to our society but what can we do?

[Guest]

Jakg you are the saddest person on ucp.
i concur

[Vaigra]

i concur
agreeing with people taking the piss out of you or sucking up doesn't gain you respect.

[h00t_h00t]

I wonder why the only ones complaining are the ones that don't pay to watch the show...

I can't see what was wrong with "destroying" those cars, they are awful by todays standards, they weren't particulaly good looking and above all they were owned by the show and they can do what they want with them.

[Matra et Alpine]

I can't see what was wrong with "destroying" those cars, they are awful by todays standards, they weren't particulaly good looking and above all they were owned by the show and they can do what they want with them.
Good point, there are SOME people in car clubs who object that a "classic" car is being used in race and rally series and being damamged in the process.

Two points I always make, They dont' own the car in question, if they dont' liek it then buy up every car on the planet and tehn be happy !!! and it's better that there bieing used they way they woudl when they first came out of the factory than being polished and kept stored away only to come out like an ornament to be shown off. All this "collecting" shit is a realatively modern activity by peopel who put making money above enjoying the car.

Check out the guy who put his MC12 on the track in the snow for the TV :D

[Vaigra]

Check out the guy who put his MC12 on the track in the snow for the TV :D
who, what, where, when? Is this available to download?

[Guest]

who, what, where, when? Is this available to download?
just look for the 5th gear eposide with the MC12 on it

[P3RG4R3C]

I prefer the third episode over this one.

[Wouter Melissen]

I wonder why the only ones complaining are the ones that don't pay to watch the show...

Wether I pay for it or not does not affect my liking it or not. I enjoyed the show in the past, just not in this day and age.


I can't see what was wrong with "destroying" those cars, they are awful by todays standards, they weren't particulaly good looking and above all they were owned by the show and they can do what they want with them.

To each his own I guess. Any classic is awful to today's standards, that does not to justify the random demolishing of one. Clarkson could have forfeited the race when his engine started to sound rough, but no, for entertainment purposes he pushed on with a complete engine failure and a up close encounter with the scenery as a result. Furthermore it was a potentially dangerous situation as he was well aware that the engine failure that he was bound to suffer would kill the brakes as well, so he put the other people on the road in danger with his pathetic antics.
I welcome you to respond in similar fashion when an owner is bashed for crashing his new supercar. The common response on these forums on that topic is quite the opposite to yours here.

[adamfraser]

Guys, il try get my Server up tonight with Series 6+whatever of series 7 (4 eps so far) of top gear. Give me a few hours.

[Guest]

Guys, il try get my Server up tonight with Series 6+whatever of series 7 (4 eps so far) of top gear. Give me a few hours.
could you provide a link to the top gear bit about the s-classes crashing in the last episode?

[adamfraser]

Im providing the full episodes, not cut up bits. But, unfortunately Episode 1 and 4 of the new series wiggled out my hands and dissapeared. Shit! Ah, il just go get them again, haha.

[Guest]

Im providing the full episodes, not cut up bits. But, unfortunately Episode 1 and 4 of the new series wiggled out my hands and dissapeared. Shit! Ah, il just go get them again, haha.
oh well, thanks anyway

[adamfraser]

Ypu could probably just download the epiode and cut it out with Movie Maker?

[adamfraser]

The details are in the sig...

[Guest]

Ypu could probably just download the epiode and cut it out with Movie Maker?
yes, but i was tryin gto void a 350 mb download

[adamfraser]

You wont be saying that for the Veyron episode will ya?

[Guest]

You wont be saying that for the Veyron episode will ya?
no, i will download the episodes on dial up just to show my devotion!

[adamfraser]

I thought you wre on broadband?

[Guest]

I thought you wre on broadband?
i am, but ill connect using my phone!

Hot chicks like the Veyron like commitment!

[adamfraser]

Ok. Haha, i remember dialup. I left my net on for about 17 hours for a 30mb file, and it was crap... doh!!!

[Guest]

Ok. Haha, i remember dialup. I left my net on for about 17 hours for a 30mb file, and it was crap... doh!!!
ahh, the good old days! i used to think 8.0 kbs was blazingly fast (got it once on a download, i was smiling for hours afterwards!)

[h00t_h00t]

Wether I pay for it or not does not affect my liking it or not. I enjoyed the show in the past, just not in this day and age. It affects who they listen to when it comes to format. The show is supposed to be controverial at times, and they just don't like classic car collecters. Driving around wrecked supercars is and always will be incredibly funny. Smashing said wrecks into a hedge for the sake of a pun is even better. This must be one of those British sense of humor things.

[Wouter Melissen]

It affects who they listen to when it comes to format. The show is supposed to be controverial at times, and they just don't like classic car collecters. Driving around wrecked supercars is and always will be incredibly funny. Smashing said wrecks into a hedge for the sake of a pun is even better. This must be one of those British sense of humor things.

Wrecks? If you consider these cars to be wrecks, then I gues most classic cars can be thrown away. Obviously some TLC was required to get these cars back to concours condition, but the bodies all looked very clean. What the hell does this have to do with classic car collectors? These bargain supercars are not quite collector car material, but rather offer average Joe the opportunity to get into something a little more exotic than his Mondeo. I guess the spoilt brats have long since forgotten what it was like to have only a couple of thousands to spend on a car.

What would be great fun is for them to crash a McLaren F1 into a barrier. That ten year old piece of junk is owned only by car collectors and they need some serious bashing.

[Matra et Alpine]

Wouter, each of us draws that line at a place determined by our own car-appeal and our expectation of costs. I've invested over the years WAY over the "value" on the Matras, but I do it because I find the look particularly appealing. Do I think everyone should save every Bageera ? nope, because that's unrealistic. I think the same with many of these pseudo-supercars form the 70s :D They wre expensive, sure, but back then were farily poor pieces of machinery

As I'd said, a lowish volume 20 year old Maser engine may require thousands (10s?) invested to "restore" it. That's probably why all of these would have been for sale at less than £10K :D

[adamfraser]

I'm sure the best bits will be downloadable from somewhere earlier than that. Hope so, as I really wanna grab a soundbite or something of that Zonda's exhaust note, it was absolutely AWESOME!!! :eek:

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=5CACVTA0

I know, the quality is reduced greatly when put into Movie maker, but still, its awesome.

[Wouter Melissen]

As I'd said, a lowish volume 20 year old Maser engine may require thousands (10s?) invested to "restore" it. That's probably why all of these would have been for sale at less than £10K :D

It's the same V6 used by Citroen for various models.

[Clivey]

Wouter, each of us draws that line at a place determined by our own car-appeal and our expectation of costs. I've invested over the years WAY over the "value" on the Matras, but I do it because I find the look particularly appealing. Do I think everyone should save every Bageera ? nope, because that's unrealistic. I think the same with many of these pseudo-supercars form the 70s :D They wre expensive, sure, but back then were farily poor pieces of machinery

As I'd said, a lowish volume 20 year old Maser engine may require thousands (10s?) invested to "restore" it. That's probably why all of these would have been for sale at less than £10K :D

Personally I'd like to see as many truly good cars saved as possible (meaning classics, modern classics and prestige cars). I don't think it should be a case of whoever has the money can buy the car, they should be trusted only to those that can and will take care of them. Fair enough if they want to use them on track etc. but if damaged they should be fully repaired. Accidents can and will happen but that's where the difference is. If I were someone like Enzo Ferrari (whilst he was still alive of course), I'd want to ensure the "safety" of every one of the very special cars that left the factory. Inevitably a few would meet their end unexpectedly and unwantedly but that's why I say more need to be saved. The chances of the entire number being produced becoming "extinct" is greater with time and so at least a couple of each car should go for "safe keeping". Never to be driven.

Some of you will undoubtably argue against this but you'd think twice if say, everyone that owned a McLaren F1 were to have a major accident during the course of the next few years.

[Matra et Alpine]

Some of you will undoubtably argue against this but you'd think twice if say, everyone that owned a McLaren F1 were to have a major accident during the course of the next few years.
I'd rather see every F1 on the road destroyed by being driven over the next 20 years than think of them all sitting in centrally heated garages under wraps as an "investment" :( The manufacturer always keeps a musem-example so nobody else needs to !!

How many owners of Morris Marinas should nurture them for posteritiy ? The one painted in General Lee is one too many for all the UK car shows it turns up at :D

Once your car ownership goes beyond the 20th car it all gets into context. I'd love to have kept every Escort Twin Cam, Escort Mexico, Hillman Imp( with Monte suspension ), Mini that I'd rallied in and destroyed. BUT it's just not viable and besides you do get bored with a car after a while !!

[Clivey]

I'd rather see every F1 on the road destroyed by being driven over the next 20 years than think of them all sitting in centrally heated garages under wraps as an "investment" :( The manufacturer always keeps a musem-example so nobody else needs to !!

I didn't say not to drive every one of them, I said a couple, which has been done in the case of the F1. As I also said, fair enough if people want to drive them, and it's inevitable that a few WILL be lost (whether the owner's fault or not). But for god's sake there is no excuse for what we saw with the Merak on TG.


How many owners of Morris Marinas should nurture them for posteritiy ? The one painted in General Lee is one too many for all the UK car shows it turns up at :D

I think you'll find I said 'cars', not domestic appliances. :D I was tempted to say "good" cars in my post but that would raise the question "How do we decide what qualifies?" Somehow though, I don't think many people would want to take the Marina out for a spirited drive.:D Therefore, not as many will be lost, unfortunately. Having said that, a couple should be kept in museums as examples of "what not to do" when making a car.


Once your car ownership goes beyond the 20th car it all gets into context. I'd love to have kept every Escort Twin Cam, Escort Mexico, Hillman Imp( with Monte suspension ), Mini that I'd rallied in and destroyed. BUT it's just not viable and besides you do get bored with a car after a while !!

I didn't say "every", I said "as many as possible", taking into account the fact that some will be lost, however, what should not be allowed is for enough to remain on the road so that all of them are destroyed. Being "bored" with the car is a very selfish attitude, just because you've had all the experience and thrills you're gonna get out of it doesn't mean to say the car's redundant...there are 6 billion + people on this planet, share them around a bit :D. Let others experience what a real car is, rather than putting up with the econoboxes that are churned out today at frightening rates, for people that shouldn't even be driving cars.

[Matra et Alpine]

and the last point is the key one.

THe scrap yards are full of cars that are not viable to repair.
They are worth very little and the cost to put them back fully working exceeds ther value of the car once all the work is done.

SO what should be done ? There are only so many excessively rich people in the world who dont' mind throwing it away :D So they go to the big scrapyard in the sky. My error in my "every" in that I meant every one of them I'd had. So the Mini ended up in a ditch with the roof ripped off by a tree root. The wheels were smashed, stub axles were bent, subframes knackered. The gearboc and engine were the only parts worth saving. So do you spend £5K reshelling that car or do you sell the race engine and straight cut box for £300 and buy and Escort Twin Cam to carry on rallying ? WHen I said "drive" earlier, I menat "DRIVE" - I believe that a performance or competition car should live at 90-100% of it's capability for as long as is possible/afforedable :D When it costs too much to keep it that way then it goes. Finally at the end of the chain there is someone who has to let it go to the scrappies becaues it's no longer financially viable to sell !!

[Clivey]

and the last point is the key one.

THe scrap yards are full of cars that are not viable to repair.
They are worth very little and the cost to put them back fully working exceeds ther value of the car once all the work is done.

SO what should be done ? There are only so many excessively rich people in the world who dont' mind throwing it away :D So they go to the big scrapyard in the sky. My error in my "every" in that I meant every one of them I'd had. So the Mini ended up in a ditch with the roof ripped off by a tree root. The wheels were smashed, stub axles were bent, subframes knackered. The gearboc and engine were the only parts worth saving. So do you spend £5K reshelling that car or do you sell the race engine and straight cut box for £300 and buy and Escort Twin Cam to carry on rallying ? WHen I said "drive" earlier, I menat "DRIVE" - I believe that a performance or competition car should live at 90-100% of it's capability for as long as is possible/afforedable :D When it costs too much to keep it that way then it goes. Finally at the end of the chain there is someone who has to let it go to the scrappies becaues it's no longer financially viable to sell !!

I fully understand what you are saying and have thought, for a very long time, about this "problem": One the one hand cars are meant to be enjoyed, on the other, they're meant to be driven, and yes, I did understand you when you said "drive"...

...that was acknowledged when I said that I realised that some would be lost, but there should only be a limited number that are allowed to be driven this way and ultimately "go" this way, some should be allowed to be driven but not for competition and some should be kept in "centrally heated garages". It's a compromise between enjoying and saving, but saving ultimately has to win because otherwise we'd lose what is very precious to us - the existence of that type of car.

Cars that have this value and have been crashed (as you described the Mini) shouldn't go and sit in a scrapyard to rot with '90 Montegos and '94 Orions, they should be saved in the crashed state until someone is willing to spend the kind of cash required to restore them to their former glory. This way all but the most extreme write-offs could be saved...

...just an idea though. That's why it's on a forum. To discuss.

[Matra et Alpine]

but there should only be a limited number that are allowed to be driven this way and ultimately "go" this way, some should be allowed to be driven but not for competition and some should be kept in "centrally heated garages[quote]
OK, so now let's follow that logic.

WHO is allowed to drive their car adn who is expected to kleep it in a garage ?
If EVERYOEN wants to drive it then logically you are suggesting that some showuld then be stopped and forced to keep it pristine.
The MANUFACTURER already does that - usually donated to local car museum !
[quote]Cars that have this value and have been crashed (as you described the Mini) shouldn't go and sit in a scrapyard to rot with '90 Montegos and '94 Orions, they should be saved in the crashed state until someone is willing to spend the kind of cash required to restore them to their former glory. This way all but the most extreme write-offs could be saved...
Who is going to pay for the storage of that car ?
SOMEONE has to :( Woudl you be happy if your road tax was £500 /year so the government could fund the storage ?

...just an idea though. That's why it's on a forum. To disscuss.
it exercises the mind :D

As you see it's not possible to keep the cars, so some have to go. THe question raised already earlier is where is the point in time when owners start to switch from driving to showing ( for some the car gets sold on to someone else to do concourse with ) For a Honda Civic it's probably NEVER. For a Bentley Continental GT it's probably within the next 5-10 years.

So where does that leave the likes of the (realtively) mass-produced, poorly built 70s Masers ? There are still plenty around, so those who want to keep them as investment/concourse will take the BEST examples. So what then happens to the other 80% of them ? They will die. So TG had a bit of a laugh along the way with one example. A drop in the ocean. THey paid less than 10 grand. At the point the cars are rare enough to warrant it then even basket cases will go for 5 times that. Those cars are not anywhere near that leve as they paid less than 10K for them. It's a self-fulfilling selection method

[Clivey]

OK, so now let's follow that logic.

WHO is allowed to drive their car adn who is expected to kleep it in a garage ?
If EVERYOEN wants to drive it then logically you are suggesting that some showuld then be stopped and forced to keep it pristine.
The MANUFACTURER already does that - usually donated to local car museum !

I'm suggesting that some shouldn't be sold to people who intend to drive / DRIVE :D them. That way there's no disappointment when people are "stopped". Manufacturers sadly don't keep at least one of every model, and even if they did...There would always be someone in the future wating that preserved car to be a different version.


Who is going to pay for the storage of that car ?
SOMEONE has to :( Woudl you be happy if your road tax was £500 /year so the government could fund the storage ?

The car should go onto a database as soon as it is discovered that the owner will be "scrapping it" for anyone and everyone who's interested to see, if it's picked up, it's picked up and if it isn't, it's obviously not the kind of car we want to save. There are enough wealthy people on this planet to be able to restore a large number f cars that have "gone" this way.


it exercises the mind :D

You sure got that right, trying to come up with the "ideal" situation can sometimes lead to immense frustration though, don't you agree?



As you see it's not possible to keep the cars, so some have to go. THe question raised already earlier is where is the point in time when owners start to switch from driving to showing ( for some the car gets sold on to someone else to do concourse with ) For a Honda Civic it's probably NEVER. For a Bentley Continental GT it's probably within the next 5-10 years.

Exactly. But how do you say "enough is enough" when you refer to the destruction of those cars? Any ideas? :D



So where does that leave the likes of the (realtively) mass-produced, poorly built 70s Masers ? There are still plenty around, so those who want to keep them as investment/concourse will take the BEST examples. So what then happens to the other 80% of them ? They will die. So TG had a bit of a laugh along the way with one example. A drop in the ocean. THey paid less than 10 grand. At the point the cars are rare enough to warrant it then even basket cases will go for 5 times that. Those cars are not anywhere near that leve as they paid less than 10K for them. It's a self-fulfilling selection method

Although I used the Merak as an example earlier, what we were discussing would be much more appropriate to other cars such as the McLaren F1. However, as you said, there would have to be a "point in time" for every car.

[Matra et Alpine]

I'm suggesting that some shouldn't be sold to people who intend to drive / DRIVE :D them. That way there's no disappointment when people are "stopped". Manufacturers sadly don't keep at least one of every model, and even if they did...There would always be someone in the future wating that preserved car to be a different version.
So now you are sayign that only the CHOSEN get to buy a car ?
This is getting even more restrictive :(
So who decides and on what basis ? Maybe dont' sell any cars to immigrants, that woudl keep some happy !!!
Sorry, clearly unworkable also.

The car should go onto a database as soon as it is discovered that the owner will be "scrapping it" for anyone and everyone who's interested to see, if it's picked up, it's picked up and if it isn't, it's obviously not the kind of car we want to save. There are enough wealthy people on this planet to be able to restore a large number f cars that have "gone" this way.
But, yous ee, this all happens already.
Just that "database" is the local car trader or AutoTrader.
Nobody buys it , so it gets scrapped.
That's how a free market economy works.

You sure got that right, trying to come up with the "ideal" situation can sometimes lead to immense frustration though, don't you agree?
Nah, I've never know frustration to come from enlightenment :D

Exactly. But how do you say "enough is enough" when you refer to the destruction of those cars? Any ideas? :D
The free market.
If nobody wants it then crush it.
If there are lots of them then the few people who DO want them will find them at cheap prices. As the available cars reduces then the price increases and the collectors then switch in to purchase and "save" them.
Free market economics at towkr at it's best :D

Although I used the Merak as an example earlier, what we were discussing would be much more appropriate to other cars such as the McLaren F1. However, as you said, there would have to be a "point in time" for every car.
Well the Merak was the one upsetting everyeon about TG and it's definately in the scrappable at $10K range. An F1 is a different beast and always will be. The Merak will get there when the world population of Meraks drops below a couple of hundred ( approx 1800 wre built )

[Clivey]

So now you are sayign that only the CHOSEN get to buy a car ?
This is getting even more restrictive :(
So who decides and on what basis ? Maybe dont' sell any cars to immigrants, that woudl keep some happy !!!
Sorry, clearly unworkable also.

I was thinking that the manufacturers would choose the owner (this would only happen with a handful of the cars so it wouldn't affect anyone else)


But, yous ee, this all happens already.
Just that "database" is the local car trader or AutoTrader.
Nobody buys it , so it gets scrapped.
That's how a free market economy works.

"The local"? You were just on about not excluding people from owning the cars. I meant an international database made for collectors around the world.


Nah, I've never know frustration to come from enlightenment :D

That depends if "enlightenment" happens...I'm just thinking about how we can keep decent cars on the roads "The world is too full of beige Nissans!" - Billy Connoly


The free market.
If nobody wants it then crush it.
If there are lots of them then the few people who DO want them will find them at cheap prices. As the available cars reduces then the price increases and the collectors then switch in to purchase and "save" them.
Free market economics at towkr at it's best :D

But how do you know whether anyone wants it if it's either crushed straight away or only advertised locally? My only concern is that rare and beautiful cars are being lost to the new generation of politically correct marshmellows on wheels.


Well the Merak was the one upsetting everyeon about TG and it's definately in the scrappable at $10K range. An F1 is a different beast and always will be. The Merak will get there when the world population of Meraks drops below a couple of hundred ( approx 1800 wre built )

They're not exactly setting a good example of what to do with a calssis car though are they?

[Matra et Alpine]

I was thinking that the manufacturers would choose the owner (this would only happen with a handful of the cars so it wouldn't affect anyone else)
So what if Audi decide that only whaite Arian's get to "own" their cars ?
It's sn unworkable and fuindamentally gross idea. sorry.

"The local"? You were just on about not excluding people from owning the cars. I meant an international database made for collectors around the world.
Erm, that's why AutoTrader was mentioned - it's on that worldwide webbie thing. Check out their web site. AND eBay. A burnt out A110 chassis went for very silly money on eBay recently. So proof that it can work. Also, once you are a collector you KNOW where to go to find what's available. There are also the world auctions liek Bonhams etc.



But how do you know whether anyone wants it if it's either crushed straight away or only advertised locally? My only concern is that rare and beautiful cars are being lost to the new generation of politically correct marshmellows on wheels.
Yeap and it might happen but anything else won't. NOBODY will keep a world databse of chunks of metal. The market forces as already explained wil kick in when the availability reduces for desirable cars - and NEVER for the likes of the Allegro :D

They're not exactly setting a good example of what to do with a calssis car though are they?
Why not. It is NOT a classic car. They were dbioud cars from once great manufactureres. They were also built in quite high numbers. They're only "potential classics". Who the hell else was going to pay £10K for a car that was worth maybe £20K after you spend £15K on it. You wouldn't, you woudl go and buy a £20K condition one that hasn't had £15K thrown at it pointlessly. As less of them survive the "worht" will possibly increase ( no guarantee ) and THEN it might just become viable to save a £10K car.

[2ndclasscitizen]

i can't believe no one has mentioned this but did anyone else reckon that the F part was really short? All you got to see was Hammond flogging it up and down the runway a few times and a couple of quick shots of him taking corners. I would have liked to see a bit more. But then again, the noise it made when he was screaming down the runway was just incredible

[adamfraser]

Yeah, it was too damn short. Only 4 mins including the lap by the stig!!!

I got the video in the other thread.

[clutch-monkey]

that would have to be one of their shortest reviews, and it was one of the best cars they've had to review :(

[h00t_h00t]

Well all it is is a more powerful Zonda, so apart from the extra speed what else is there to mention, assuming you saw the origional review.