Who will win V8 Supercars this year?

[motorsportnerd]

The first race of the new year is just two weeks away at the AGP and most teams have now revealed their driver line ups and liveries. So who's going to win?

My feeling is that Ambrose will be hard to beat again, but watch both Triple 8 and FPR. They've both got massive budgets, access to overseas technology (the Triple 8 Vauxhalls in the BTCC and the BAR's in F1) and excellent drivers. If Radicish is feeling comfortable in the Triple 8 environment, he could be a dark horse. Although I'd be happy to see Lowndes or Seton win races as the championship as well.
Also, guess we can't write of Skaife or Murphy.

And a question. Anyone know who will be in the second Dynamic seat. Rumour was Jan Magnussen. Has that been confirmed?

[fpv_gtho]

i believe its getting a bit too late for Team Dynamik to fill up their remaining seat, but the fields down a car compared to last year so it could happen

well the basic facts are: Ambrose doesnt have the pressure of trying to win Fords first championship for a while, HRT dont have an owndership scandal hanging oer their heads but Skaife has team ownership over his head, KMart will still have a VY to get around as well as some development left on the #51 car (theres still no decent data for Eastern creek, Winton, Barbagallo, Clipsal, Adelaide), 888 will be starting the year with the former Briggs Motorsport, FPR will have gotten over their initial year and be into the swing of things, Ingall will be situated firmer in SBR and be getting higher up the ranks

i could go on but theyre really just the most important ones. the first races wont really mean much as there will be drivers slightly out of form from the break and trying to get back into the swing of things so hopefully by around Rnd 3 we'll be seeing everyone back to 2003's form or better.

I'm hoping that Ambrose can get a back to back win but i think Ford's main focus this year should be their Bathurst assault

[Pliz]

Ford Will Win!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :d

[Falcon500]

Its a tought idea in theory the ex TWR cars should be preforming better but they have a few downfalls such as team brock no longer exists and with that gone so is their budget im assuiming, Skaife hasownership wich is well proven to strike down drivers in modern day touring cars and kelly still has to work on his own VY since he only got it a few races from the end also tony lonhurst has offically left HRT to purue a full time posi in castrol and so has jim richards (read on for that) and Kmart still need to work on their own cars. As for ford The stones possibly have more sponsoship (i havent heard much on that front but a championship win will more then likly draw attention) and ingall is now dialed into his car. FPR have a bigger budget and less cars to work with coupled with what FPV dubbed Totalperformance meaning they are going to work damn hard in every field to make the most of everything (cars, raceing, marketing, new model ect ect) 888 look strong, Perkins's team would be an interesting one to watch as they have twice the data of any team out there! wether itll be good in practice is another thing (they also have 3 cars they can use a guinia pigs leaving their most senior driver to reap the benafits) And also coupled with the fact that Jim Richards has offically left HRT and now will race withhis son in the enduros coupled with the fact that castrol have 1) steven richards (a well proven driver even if idont like him) 2) That Ex konica champion (his name slips me Dumbrell isnt it?) who is now on his second season 3) Anthony Tratt a very capeable driver 4) and one of the true vetrans of the sport tonylonghurst who has a swag of vitories in various motorsportsand multible bathurst wins coupled with decades in the sport!...but will Budget, polatics, team orders,larry himself and pit lane allow this to work?
Garry rodgers in theory should have more budget this year in theory as he has gotten rid of his 427project and has a more expericanced 2nd driver this year (poor jamie) coupled with that bean pole Giant Garth tander(also very underated but hes been acting up in the past few years) and also would have some interesting telemtry from his abondoned project as well not to mention a new roll cage deign hes perfecting (the Garry Bar)
And also numerousother teams have sprouted up from the ashes of well established teams and also have someof the most underrated drivers in the feild will the impress this year?

[fpv_gtho]

Im hoping the likes of DJR and BJR can lift their game this year as theyve got top drivers, they just need their equipment working for them. Ambrose issued the challenge to the Ford teams to try and match his performance this year and hopefully they'll succeed

[Falcon500]

Well im thinking that HRT will be getting more serious but with recen losses...it reamians to be seen. Ill expect Kmart to be quite strong and i already made it clear about the very possibilty that castrol are either going to trouce or fold (well im drama tising a bit but they really have a lot stacked both ways)
Im also :confused: wether amrborse can make a repaet performance..i frankly have no idea
at the moment my bets are on FPR for serious improvement,Supercheap for a better result,stone for at least doing dman well, the kelly boy of HRT doing well, Kmart for doing damn well.
Teams i doubt will improve are lansvale smash reapairs, Garry rodger motorsport (yes i know i said they have potential but luck doesnt favor them) PWR (for obvious reasons, BJR (they have been at a standstill recently and historicly it takes them a good long while to figure anything but bathurst out in a short period of time)

[fpv_gtho]

im expecting LMS to have some pretty big improvements, hopefully bargs has found the sweet spot of the BA and Frosty can get aboard his pretty soon. Ambrose has said he reckons he'll do better this year because the amount of pressure that has been lifted of his shoulders is enormous, he was probably ready to explode after his last performance at pukekohe, or at least race 2 performance (race 3 im sure he was feeling better after ingall's display of true teamwork)

im seriously hoping DJR will regain form. you could have a look at how many ford fans returned to the stadiums last year just from ambrose, well i reckon as much more will come back if DJR can get up on the podium

[Falcon500]

Well asi said it all remains to be seen the mebourne GPis on in a week or 2 and the clipsal 500 is 2 weeks after that i think.

[motorsportnerd]

I'd forgotten about the Perkins four car team. Steve Richards would have to be a serious contender. And I've always been a major fan of Jim Richards, so I'll have to put aside my normal dislike of Perkins at Bathurst. Hopfully Jim will make it victory number 8 at Bathurst this year. He may still beat Brock's record (of 9, can't count the 24 hour race as a "Bathurst" victory, just as a long distance victory at Bahurst).
I can't really see Garry Rodgers team, PWR, Team Dynamic, Tasman Motorsport or Team Kiwi being contenders for the championship. We may see occasional flashes of brillance from some of their drivers though. I think Jason Bright may have made a mistake remaining loyal to PWR.
Really, its Ford that has depth in the ranks now. Other than HRT, K-Mart and Perkins, I don't see the same depth of sponsorship, engineering talent, driving talent or good management in the Holden teams. Ford on the other hand has SBR, FPR, Triple 8, DJR and BJR, all of which have good levels of sponsorship, engineering talent, and mostly excellent drivers. And even the next rung of Ford teams look pretty good - SuperCheap, WPS Motorsport, LMS. I pity the Holden teams, in some ways. Still, you only need one team and one driver to dominate, and HRT have done that plenty of times before. Ford really doesn't have any excuses it they don't win this year when you consider the depth of talent in their ranks.
Also, a point on Jim Richards. Is there anyone else out there who, like me, believes the he is the best all-round racing driver we've ever seen in Australia or NZ? I consider him to be better than the likes of Aust/NZ world champions Alan Jones and Denis Hulme and touring car greats like Brock, Johnson or Moffat when I statement. Even in his late 50s he is still amongst the top 10 drivers in Australia, in my opinion. He'd still cut it if he drove full time in V8 Supercars (if you don't believe me look at his performances in the Bathurst, Sandown and QLD endurance races the last few years). However I know he does his motorsport for the enjoyment it gives him, and I belive he gave racing V8s away full time in the mid 90s because he didn't enjoy it as much as he used to.

[SHAKER]

I was just wondering with ambrose doing so well with the stone brothers, whether fpr would like to snap him up for there team, maybe fpv and stone bros could team up under the same umbrella and have a 4 car team sharing all there data,(not to mention there drivers, ambrose ingall lowndes and seton all as team mates)!It would be similair to the kmart/hrt/brock team scenerio, makes sense to me! But of course it will never happen.

[fpv_gtho]

SBR would sooner rejoin DJR than move down to melbourne and merge with FPR i reckon. Not only are DJR like just down the road but theyre more experienced and not full of themselves

[fpv_gtho]

well ive just read this article and im feeling fairly sympathetic for Ingall at the moment. we've all heard a gutfull in regards to his stint with skaife at eastern creek, but apparently all the crap some idiot holden fans out there are giving him and his family has sent his wife to the hospital from stress.......

he's commented that he won't acknowledge skaife this year and if skaife has anything to say that he wants him to say it to him face to face and not use the media as an interface. Ingall's really focused on winning this year to really shove it to HRT and Skaife so i think skaife better watch out next time hes trying to pass ingall as he might just bight back......again......

[Falcon500]

As i said i seem to find more brainless holden fans then ford fans....i am not meaning to gloat or anything but this sort of proves my theory (although it would not suprise me in the slightest to hear of m skaife being harassed needlesly too)
I doubt he will but next time skaife probly wont try and squeaze him forroom and attempt to forcehim off the road....i have read numerous people who think skaife started it all (in a real bout of finger pointing) and as myold man said if ingall just drove by he would of only gotten a slap across the wrist and possibly third in the championship because i think skaife was planning on running into the stones garage anyways to have a winge.
Garry Rodgers has layed down a hypathetical gauntelt saying he wants several round wins this year (of course not being happy to say 1 or 2 would be nice but saying I WANT several wins...whatch out camm hell say one thing and mean another if you dont preform)
I am quite glad to hear that team Dynamik have toned down their attitudes saying they want a better year then last year as opposed to them saying we want to win the championship in our 1st year!
Ambrose has also said in an interview that skaife should be looked out for and greg murphy and he also named several other holden teams that could and more then likly will be threats next year murphy also done the same (it was the sameinterview had both murph and ambrose) and he named ambroseas the biggest threat still and made mentions of moslty fordteams hes worred about as ambrose basicly said all the holden teams...he picked tirple 888 singling out paul radasich in particular hepicked out FPR saying glenn and lowndes have seriously improved in the space of a year and bhaveing one less car havemore focus and not to mention more money then last year and they both also agreed that most teams are getting better all the time and how it would most certainly be an interesting one this year.

[fpv_gtho]

well Kmart racing have gotten off to a good start, same with HRT, but its no real means for comparison since ints the AGP support event. the teams have the option of trying to prove their competiveness and risk it all over nothing, or just cruise into it and give the fans something to look at. seton and lowndes though, theres going to be alot better performances from them and im expecting the 2 of them will regularly be in the top 10 with lowndes taking another round win at least this year. they will probably be the best pairing for bathurst as theyve got skill and experience between the 2 of them and now i guess they have setup, and i believe we wont see ambrose and ingall together, same with T.Kelly and skaife since longhurst and S. Richards are taken for they will probably want to share the talent, but R. Kelly and Murphy will probably stick together still......

[Falcon500]

Well last year paul morris reallydid try to impress and as a by product wrote off the first raceing VY commadore in this country (he builtit in houseand gotit done before everyone else) lowndes tryed getting into it and ended off bending a stearing arm and lounged away in 7th deciding not to push his luck any further rathering getting data rather then risking more damge. Of course proof of competativeness is not totally true either if you rated amrbroses chance by his GP performance last year he was nearlyat the back of the field (he had an electrical fault)
Dont forgetlowndes and seton also had the most econmical car on the field last year hopefully they can extract more power while some how keeping the ecconmy. Kmart will be the ones to whatch at sandown and bathurst although i dont think theycan duplicate it again...you just never can be too sure. Well HRT lost their vetrans what a kickc to the guts that would of been they might have to find other people to fill their seats or at least get their holden young lions in the second car (GASP)

[fpv_gtho]

i think getting the HYL will be the go, which is why i think skaife might choose to take #2 whilst kelly takes #22, but i think its SER's sandown and bathurst performances that need to be replicated.....

well the #6 car at bathurst last year was actually significantly down on power apparently, which couldve explained its better economy in some instances but you'd almost think it would get worse economy trying to make up for the lack in power. either way with Prodrive getting their hands on the engine theres bound to be some mroe power and economy unlocked which will only benefit them

[Falcon500]

Dont you mean SCAR (super cheap raceing)....And yes either that or a top 10 finish for the year.....for some reason i think holden would avoid useing the young lions i could be wrong but id be a little suprised ifthey let them drive one of HRTs oh so preciouscars.
Well that would explain the ecconmy but also think of its pretty good times they wernt doing too bad for themselves and could hold their own against nearly everyone else on the track...thats the hard one to explain...but of course they have an EX F1 engineer and 2 freshones and not to mention experimental engines by prodrive.

[fpv_gtho]

well this could be a credit to lowndesy's driving ability, but whenever things are going good for him, even down on power he can give ambrose a good challenge, like at oran park, they had ambrose behind ingall but technically a lap ahead and SBR wanted to keep ingall on the lead lap, but there was lots of talk about them being worried about an advance from lowndes who was about 8 cars behind but 2nd

[fpv_gtho]

it could be SCAR or SER, either way its steve ellery driving. they do that alot, you can have perkins engineering and at the same time, castrol motorsport or something similar. same with Pirtek Racing and SBR i guess but thats down to the use of 2 liveries by SBR to keep it more accurate

[Falcon500]

Yeah well there is no steve ellery raceing im aware of but you are right....might payoff to make a thread dedicated too initals and refernces tio the drivers too avoidlater confusion....
Dont forget seto wasin the car too...he made up a lotof ground too he moved the car into 5th i think it wasandlowndes capitalised on that....and peoplecalled seto a wash up! HA. I think seto haveing a BA all year plus ayear of haveing a alot of devlopment would help him greatly...im hopeing for a top 10 and some Black Douglas sponsorship for him :D

[fpv_gtho]

well either way in 2003 seton and lowndes were both showing alot of inconsistency with besnard never really being able hit the mark. although it wouldve been highly down to the troubles of a)it being a new team and b) having the new BA's, but not everyone thinks about this when they comment and criticise the drivers. either way though lowndes ended up having a better year than in 2002 and i think the same could be said for seto who finished somewhere between 10th and 20th

[Falcon500]

Well that is so very true there trying to make heads or tails out of these cars and its the drivers fault...Seto actually had a worse year all considering he was out of the top 10....better results yes....better end of year result NO (all thanks to that peice of poop they call the points system)

[fpv_gtho]

well even though that was the case with Seto, now hes with FPR hes definately in with a slight chance to get back to ATLEAST being in the top 3. to achieve this though he'll have to really get his head into it and work on his communication skills with his engineers cause he'll have a hard enough task getting around lowndes let alone skaife, murphy and ambrose

[Falcon500]

Youll find that nearly every driver in the field is capeable of winning the championship....many arnt complimented by their cars....of course same thing could be said the other way around...But rember for nearly 5 years there seto never left the top 3 at the end of the year and even when he dropped off (untill now) he never left the top 10....while i doubt hell ever win a championship again im dead certain he has a few top5 and at least 1 bathurst win yet left in him.
also onan interesting notei found out Tony longhurst is ONLY 46....the reason why i said only was i thought he was older! he sure didnt look 20 in the 80s....

[fpv_gtho]

well definately theres at least a bathurst left in him. winning a championship will be down to the fortunes of FPR and misfortunes of 888, HRT, SBR, KMR, GRM and DJR. i reckon theres not much left in skaife as well though, sure he'll stay competitive for the next few years but i think with ambrose and murphy coming into their prime he wont be so lucky to get either another bathurst wih or championship

[Falcon500]

Murphs shelf life is a bit shorter then ambroses...that said skaife is getting longer in the tooth every year and lets not forget hes now on the tega (driveing stnadards) board and also has the weight of the biggest holden team on him.
Seto has many years left in him....hes about as old as skaife so his shelf life isnt incredibly long but he no longer has the stresses skaife had...although he was better off earlier in his career but i think skaife sucsess wasnt sole based on sriver skill....lets not forget that he is used to the f1 technology they borrowed from the arrows team and he also enjoyed haveing 2 comadores that were constanly tested over seas (Tom walkenshaw admited this freely as it wasnt breaking any rules...testing only applies for this country)but now the tables are turned! the cards are falling in ford favor right now....weather they can capitalise is another thing...i think itll take longer then one year to truely make the most out of prodrives considrable arsenalgive them 2 or three years and i think well have a very dominating team...

[fpv_gtho]

prodrive's not the only one having fun in the ford camp remember, 888 took over briggs motorsport and im sure they'd end up shipping some cars overseas for some "extensive" research and development.

its kinda ironic though that people like the former TWR, Prodrive and 888 come into the business and send the costs sky high, then SBR and LMS sign a deal in a hope to reduce costs. id be interested to see if SBR strike anything up with DJR at any time, i was watching steven johnson today and he was showing some good for in the top 10

[Falcon500]

I seriouslydoubt DJR and SBR would piss on eachother if they were on fire (i know im dramatizing but i doubt theyll ever help each other out in that way) DJ probly had numerous chances to keep the stones butinstead of keeping them helet them go and replaced them it worked for a while....
Well no holden fans used to worry about sky rocketing price but now ford have teams that can fund f1 programs their doing nothing but wingeing....as a by product all i have to say to those wingers is STIFF SHIT :D now you know how it feels ;)

[fpv_gtho]

well i think if DJR and SBR were to form some sort of agreement, it could only benefit them both. SBR are riding high after winning the championship and DJR are trying to fight back after the driver and team battle between radisich and DJ and still probably figuring some of the smaller things out for the BA.

i dont think Prodrive and 888's presence is just felt at the holden teams, it hink the whole field is shaken up when 2 companies stick their heads in top teams and go on a spending spree. i mean, both 888 and FPR had 2 new cars each on the grid today as compared to SBR who simply rebuilt the old BA's

[Falcon500]

I doubt it would and nowdays their set ups are probly completly diffrent and neither would probly want to change so dramaticly. I just dont think itll ever happen.
Well the cars still need lots of work they were well back today well just have to wait and see if their prescence will really effect anything yet....and as for 888 they said they want a better year then last year and also said they want to get good data this year so they can make a full on assault for 05.

[fpv_gtho]

well that is true, since 1995 when they split by now they'd be completely different, but i keep looking at it as a possible engineering feat.

888 are one of the cocky few teams out there like syromet and team dynamik that think it only takes money to become champion, they dont realise it requires blood sweat and tears for some teams just to get into the shootout

[Falcon500]

it may be it might not be it hink theyd be better off in an arrangement their currently in with a team that would more willingly mould themseves in their image and reallt work with their ideas.
888 arnt being very cocky right now and they dont believe moneys the key hence the full year of preporation...Oscar Fionotto deserves to be shot for his we want to win first year statement...it nearly impossible nowdays and a stupid thing to say (if he said wed love afew top 10s and maybey a poduim well be happy would of been better) Sirromet i dont really think their money driven to be honest but i think their weakeness is their drivers/owners on occasion stupid choices which lead to him being cursed from the sidelines or his car being damged (as i said morris is a top driver why he does someof the stupid manuvers ho does is incredibly beyond me...heprovedhe could do very well in the 24 hour nothing stupid justgood solid driveing if he replicated the patience and the good decisions he made in the 24 hour race id consider him a threat to the championship...maybey)

[fpv_gtho]

well 888 got out their cheque books for Cambell Little from SBR so although they may not make it bleedingly obvious they hope to win just by signing cheques, they sure are handing out the signatures to get the hardware to make it happen.

Correct me if i'm wrong, but Paul Morris came from the Super Tourers category run at bathurst 97 and 98? with his performance at the bathurst 24hr race in contrast to his usual round performance in the V8's you would almost think that hes not suited to such a large car with so much power. as you say he can handle a 911 quite contently but you'd hardly describe his performance in a commodore contently, you'd think someone got a destruction derby driver drunk one night and woke up with a hangover as paul morris

[Falcon500]

Well cmapell little is also a long time associte of 888s irish owner and he likewhat he done...andthe way be put it was "i am paying him more yes...but i think he wouldof gotten that from the stone if he asked a championship winning team manager only deserves as much" campell said himselfhe went more ofa choice too....
paul morris not only ran in them but won in 95,97,99,00 and 01
9championship and won bathurt with th tourers in 99 so that first part is a fine observation. That last comment made me snigger but id say its down to bad decision makeing and not thinking clearly in the heat of the mpoment....

[fpv_gtho]

well im not trying to purposely be harsh to him, but your saying in the super tourers he was doing great, he done great in the 911's but as soon as he gets into something with a bit of bulk and some power and torque to throw around its as if he has a metamorphosis. hopefully this year he'll be holding himself back a bit for the sake of the team budget and for his reputation as last years AGP and Oran Park have really stuck into my head for his driving behaviour and character

[Falcon500]

He even won a race in big kew colours in ohhh what was it 02 or 01...im not too sure so he can do it it seems when hes alone on the field(or huge gap) hes as calm as a church going granny on sunday! but put him in traffic and hes as stressed as a sydney sider taxi driver with an obnoxious american toursit int he car! He seems to love being in front and is either a royal pain when he isnt(or cant) and when he gets a sniff he can take it....not exactly a mature aproach...reminds me of whats said about luke youldens day in his roatrie powerd mada wagon...

[fpv_gtho]

i wouldnt be to surprised if it was 2001 cause i think the BK car was a VT and a VT wouldnt have had any chance of beating skaifes VX in 2002.

well what your saying there makes me think hes easily irritated or aggravated. whenever hes crowded in rather than be the one being pushed around he gets in quick and makes it clear he'll be the one doing the pushing around

[Falcon500]

I think it was i Started tapeing all the races in 02 and before then were relying on my old manscut and shut tapes (he pauses for long operdids and starts it up staticly again or when something interesting happens hes been doing that for a long time but not every race.
Probly a mix of them thingsand then some more....drivers get flusterd too Its ful on hard raceing nowdays plus with the adreniline that will be pumping hed be pumped!

[fpv_gtho]

well i think he needs to learn some self control. people point the finger at ingall and skaife for giving the sport a bad name, but consciously, people watching the way morris drives, it cant be any better

[Falcon500]

Because morris isnt as high profile...and you can see the same and worse decisions madein the konica series (not bashing just its the feeding groud for the sdport where people cut their teeth in v8s)

[fpv_gtho]

same again, the konica's get away with it because its not the premium V8 category. still despite what all the drivers get up to when they lose their temper or get their nerves playing havoc on them, it usually provides us, the viewer, with some great action which is what the sport is all about. if i wanted to watch something where they barely overtook, they barely made contact and you won by how you went in your pitstops, then i would be a diehard F1 fan.

[Falcon500]

Well as dull as the nascar tracks are its great to whatch them pass at 160 mph!...just thought id add that.
I dont mind biff and barge...but it looses flavor whn it was a silly mistake and took other people with them...

[fpv_gtho]

well yeah i can just imagine the outcry if someone was bucketing down conrod and when they went to shift into 6th, they somehow caught 2nd, forgot to dump the clutch and the rears locked up and 5 people were collected as the car started spinning out of control and flipped over the concrete barriers and killed 10 people in the crowd when it landed.............well maybe thats highly exaggerated but still, its possible in V8 Supercars

[Falcon500]

Wellill never forget webbers mercades takeing off and flipping over the advertising over the start finish line a le mans...
Anything ispossible if a v8 super car last both spoilers the chance of that happening are suprisingly high!
Welli was more refering too doing a stupid manuver to get in front but that works i guess..

[fpv_gtho]

ive seen minor footage of that incident and it surprises me how such a thing could happen in such a car, like you look at the attention paid to aerodynamics on the bricks we call V8 Supercars, well a CLK GTR would have 10x the effort put into it. it reminds me of the ford engineer's talking about the old GT40's when they stuck one in the wind tunnel whilst developing the new one. they said the rear aerodynamics were superb but the fronts were up the shit. kinda like ths story with the AU Supercar, something like the rear was too strong that it lifted the front up.

well we dont want to see people spearing off towards others because their in a faster car and a threat to them, but we dont want 1 metre wide gaps between cars because the marshals have the binoculars out either...........

[motorsportnerd]

I just got back from the Australian Grand Prix and thought I'd add my observations. I didn't see Friday's race since I was still driving to Melbourne at the time and forgot to tape it. However, I did see the Saturday and Sunday races. Bright drove really well and Weel also had a lot of speed. However, the PWR team went well at Albert Park last year as well, so I don't think to much can be read into their performace. Ambrose had plenty of car speed and Lowndes looked like he got through the field pretty well after problems in the first race. Also, in the second race it was kinda amusing to see Radisich and Wilson collide, though I think they were both innocent parties of some other incident. Reminded me of the Radisich/Johnson incident at Pukekohe in late 2002. Radisich and Wilson are meant to be team mates, so hopefully they don't take each other out again. That said, the Triple 888 car apparantly showed plenty of speed on Friday. Also worth noting how well Steve Richards and Garth Tander did.
Adelaide next week, so not long now...

[Falcon500]

Well shit happens...i have no idea why it happened either but it happened twice! so it was no fluke! Our v8s arnt too bad really they arnt great aredynamicly but ive seen worse! (think 80s nascars think of the effort they need to clock 200mph and the manged to stay ont he ground...)
Well its there are just a few people spoiling it for the rest arnt they?

[Matra et Alpine]

ive seen minor footage of that incident and it surprises me how such a thing could happen in such a car, like you look at the attention paid to aerodynamics on the bricks we call V8 Supercars, well a CLK GTR would have 10x the effort put into it.
And all that effort is spent to achieve required downforce with minimal drag.
Unlike a plane, the ground is a major factor in creating the right aero.
Unfortunately if something happens to break the laminar flow at the front then it can get nasty. Once the nose is lifted, the car is now just a flat board and with air under it it will flip. A bump at the same time as the turbulence from a leadin car is hard to plan for in the windtunnel !!

F1 is lightly easier in that if the nose does 'break away' there's less flat body to trap air and continue the spin. Exercise for the unbeliever. Take a 6x1 plank out next time in the cara and try to hold it at even just 10 degrees up. THAT's a lot of force :)

Try and see the Peuogeot 206T16 in its first year out in rallying.
It was a nightmare whenever it took a jump as the rear aero package created a LOT more downforcce than the front. It often came down on it's tail !!

[Falcon500]

well the hitch there the first time it happend (webber was first victum) He was qualifying...onlu person on the track! there where some huge issues with that car...

[fpv_gtho]

it seems almost every car Webber hops into theres some serious issues with. when he first went to jaguar, he test drove the R3 and hated how it drove. he went through the season in the R4 which is a race car many have claimed as the worst ever. Now with the R5 although there are severe improvements, there were problems out of the box

[motorsportnerd]

Correct me if i'm wrong, but Paul Morris came from the Super Tourers category run at bathurst 97 and 98? with his performance at the bathurst 24hr race in contrast to his usual round performance in the V8's you would almost think that hes not suited to such a large car with so much power.


Morris did "win" the 1997 Bathurst 1000 with Craig Baird in the BMW before they were disqualified due to Baird exceeding the maximum number of permissable laps for one driver.
Also worth noting the the Super Tourers were regarded as quite difficult cars to drive. They apparantly drove more like a single seater than a tourer since they were so stiff in the body and suspension. As a result they needed to be driven with a degree of precision and finesse, though of course that stiffness helped the handling no end. Also, since they lacked power compared to the V8s (about 340 bhp in the 2000 BTCC Ford Mondeos), the revs needed to be kept up and the cornering speed kept up to make up for the relative lack of straight line performance (although the BMWs were reaching over 260kmh on Conrod, which is pretty fast for a 2 litre).
When Paul Radisich made the switch to V8s he said they were easier to set up and relatively uncomplicated to drive compared to the much more technical Super Tourers. Morris has driven some really good races in V8s. Others used to Super Tourers never had problems adapting to V8s (eg Radisich, Rydell, Brad Jones, Jim Richards), and Morris didn't seem to have any problems to me. Remember HRT wouldn't have put him in their cars in 1999 if he was hopeless. Rather, I'd suggest that Morris is simply inconsistent as a driver and that didn't show up in the Super Tourers due to the lower quality of the opposition.

I remember watching Rickard Rydell in the Volvo S40 in the top 10 shootout for the 1998 Bathurst 1000. That was the most impressive lap of Mount Panorama I saw until Murph last year. Wish I'd taped it. Think about it - a 2m14.9265s lap in a car with half the power of a V8, a 2.0 litre 5 clyinder engine and with front wheel drive. That time would have put Rydell 14th on the grid for the V8 Bathurst 1000 a few weeks later (the last Bathurst race to be won by Ford). Impressive speed if you ask me.
Also, you'll note that I referred to the 1997 and 1998 Super Touring Bathurst races as the Bathurst 1000. This is correct - TOCA Australia had the naming rights to the Bathurst 1000 those years. However, the V8 1000 had the star drivers and tradition behind it, so Bathurst historans (source - Chevron publishing's Bathurst 1000 2003 magazine) equally regard the winners of the V8 1000s of 1997 and 1998 as real Bathurst winners as well. Thus David and Geoff Brabham (97 Super Touring 1000 winners), Larry Perkins and Russell Ingall (97 V8 1000 winners), Jim Richards and Rickard Rydell (98 Super Touring 1000 winners) and Jason Bright and Steven Richards (98 V8 1000 winners) can each be rightfully called winners of the Bathurst 1000 in those two years.

[fpv_gtho]

well im not saying i can explain why morris drives the way he does, but its a bit more than just inconsistent, its a habit almost

[motorsportnerd]

You could be right about Morris.. I've always been a bit lukewarm about him, despite the number of races he won. I remember how he collided with then team mate Tony Longhurst at Winton in the 1993 Super Touring championship. Longhurst got out of his car, went over to Morris's car and reached through the window and punched him in the head (or more accurately the helmet, which must have hurt Tony more than Morris). Still, I've never much liked Longhurst either since he's another hot head. I remember Auto Action's cover at the time went something like Bam Bam Bam Ban...

[motorsportnerd]

He even won a race in big kew colours in ohhh what was it 02 or 01...im not too sure

Yes, he won Calder 2001 in the Big Kev VT. BTW, Larkham won at Calder 2000, so Calder has a produced a few first time winners.

[fpv_gtho]

You could be right about Morris.. I've always been a bit lukewarm about him, despite the number of races he won. I remember how he collided with then team mate Tony Longhurst at Winton in the 1993 Super Touring championship. Longhurst got out of his car, went over to Morris's car and reached through the window and punched him in the head (or more accurately the helmet, which must have hurt Tony more than Morris). Still, I've never much liked Longhurst either since he's another hot head. I remember Auto Action's cover at the time went something like Bam Bam Bam Ban...



its scary to think that his teams based at the Holden Performance Driving Centre. i wouldnt want him tryin to teach me how to drive

[motorsportnerd]

I'd imagine Morris would be a much better driver than me, but I'd prefer to go to Ian Luff's courses. I'll stop make exuses one day and go along...

[Falcon500]

Well as a siad morris when not surrounded does great...though he is a well known blocker Bahturst 2001 UGH! i wouldent care too much if i was going to learn how to advanced drive at him...its how the person appl;ies what he leanrs now who he learns it off....though i wouldent mind learning of mr luff....or JBs course though the one im planning to to involves the owner of wakefield park...who is quite the race driver himself.

[fpv_gtho]

i'd personally only go to one of John Bowe's course's, i dont think i could stand being around Morris for that long whether hes a good driver or not, he'd more than likely constantly be laying it on me for being a ford fan

[Falcon500]

Then you could rag on him for driveing buzz boxes :D

[fpv_gtho]

well if he talks like he drives i think i better stay as far away from him as possible, plus he'll be doing alot of demo driving so if i say the wrong thing who knows what type of spin hes gunna chuck the thing in

[Falcon500]

He also avery large man and very fit too...if hes unhappyi wouldent want to have to run away from him....mylungs would pack it in :(

[fpv_gtho]

well i think im in a better position, being a minor, that he'll be reluctant to try anything and more than likely just have a laugh about it. even still i reckon i'd be capable enough to run away from him, how far i'd get though ive got no idea lol

[Falcon500]

Well the other day we went chaseing roos and after a fair bit of a run 300 odd metres i was puffed i was walking along panting like a dog going "where have my lungs gone?" more then likly a sign smokeing is bad....i then comment about needing fresh air and then had a smoke...bit of black humor.
Morris would have more compsure then that im thinking (hopeing)
And rember a v8 supercar drivers alegances are fletting at best...i saw steven richards in a ford escort for a classic rally...im sure its his an rembers CLs big cover up of his first car a ford cortina...

[fpv_gtho]

well you hear about drivers like Cameron McConville and Nathan Pretty having a fitness level of an olympic bike rider, so you would think the majority of the field wouldnt be all that far behind. well my mum's a pretty heavy smoker so i experience pretty bad second hand smoke at times, but yeah nothing beats fresh air when you can get it

i think at the time Lowndes took up the job at HRT because they were one of the best equipped and had some of the best engineering facilities of all the teams, with really only DJR to rival them.

[Falcon500]

Well Steven Johnson gos to the gymtwice dayly and that was to get him toloose his bulk when he let himself go...camm has a fitness like a triathlon because thats how he trains...ashe says hed never compete in itbut he could defintly last the distance which is his aim...Frosty was put through a test and he lacked areobic exorcises and garth was crook so they couldent really say what he lacked because at the time he lacked inmost areas...he was still very fit from what they could tell..I usuallysmoke out side...mum placed them rules on me so thats why there are often large breaks in mymessages because i go out and have a smoke...funny how mum smokes inside still....
Ithink lowndes took the drive with HRT because they where the biggest team to offer. When he first took the job he was just of becoming silver star champion (2nd for the sries) in formula holden and had won Formula ford and so on and so forth.

[fpv_gtho]

well you can just imagine some of the training schedules the teams stick thier drivers under in the lead up to such events as clipsal, sandown and bathurst. those 3 i would say would require great respiratory control and mental endurance so theyre not running out of breathe during a race whilst under attack from someone, or falling asleep on lap 30......

its probably unfortunate Lowndes career has been the way it is. he accpeted a job at the biggest team at the time despite it being the opposite of what he wanted, he delivered 3 championship and when he finally was racing with who he wanted, he couldnt deliver and hes probably lost a large percentage of his fanbase because of it, aswell as a fair amount of respect from certain fans. with FPR now though hes in a position where theres no excuses for why he cant deliver apart from hes either not up to the standards of Ambrose, or simply on the day the team couldnt deliver the 100% package

[Falcon500]

Well if not this year next year lowndes should be competative...rember HRT was considerd quite a joke when it first reared its head too...breakages and ummm more breakages the cars where as frial as the super falcon! (which dominated when it didnt breakdown) im just bideing my time with them im not expecting a huge jump fromt hem this year though i will be very plesently suprised at anything they gain!
Anmd the fans where genuinly rotten at lowndes for departing....like get a life! i wouldbe upset that ambrose left if he leftford...but id get over it...some holden fans havent even done that much for lowndes!

[fpv_gtho]

well FPR are back again with 2 fresh cars that need to be run in and loosened up, so they could either be up the top or in the mid field for the first part of the season. but like last year, how you start the season doesnt exactly determine how it finishes. hes definately a top 5 contender for the championship to join ingall, ambrose, murphy and skaife but really its what happens on race day that determines which one of them 5 comes away with the round win.

[Falcon500]

That sounds fair....i thought with his good races and early and end of year form heshould of gotten a top 5 (one round win and 2 podiums and was consitanly in the op 10 02s scores would of gotten him a top 5) I was thinking worst case it hink the cars will be much stonger this year...but as you said and (ill sum it upin 2 words) shit happens!

[fpv_gtho]

well i thought that Lowndes did get 5th last year, after Ingall was relegated to 7th or something after his incident on Rnd 13. before that though he was 6th and i think Jason bright jumped ahead of him, but still he was like within 20 points. luckily this year they dropped the "drop your worst round" rule but still its the same old consistency points which will raise a few eyebrows at the end of the year when the drivers reflect on their performances

[Falcon500]

that right ingall came 7th...so where did lowndes come 6th 5th? i cant remember.

[fpv_gtho]

well he left Rnd13 last year in 6th position, but after the stuards hearing for ingall he was pushed up to 5th after Ingall got dropped. he only earnt 6th but he got 5th, same as ingall earnt 3rd but he got 7th

[Falcon500]

ahhh fair enough it seems murph might of snagged pole from what flash i saw on the news....the credits.

[fpv_gtho]

yeah Murph did get pole position, but Ambrose went into the shootout with provisional pole so thats a good sign at least. even better there was no HRT presence in the shootout with only Murph, Bright, Wills and Tander representing Holden up against Ambrose, Ingall (yay, he usually does good in the race when he does good in qualifying, he said himself qualifying has been his biggest downfall), Bowe, Ellery, Radisich and Wilson. This could be yet another HRT stranglehold Ambrose breaks

[Falcon500]

Storng ford showingdo you have the exact specifics of the top 10?

[fpv_gtho]

1. Greg Murphy – Kmart Commodore (1m22.4627s)
2. Jason Bright – PWR Commodore (1m22.9629s)
3. Marcos Ambrose – Pirtek Falcon (1m23.0463s)
4. John Bowe – OzEmail Falcon (1m23.0659s)
5. Garth Tander – Repco Valvoline Cummins Commodore (2m00.861s)
6. Max Wilson – Betta Electrical Triple 8 Falcon (1m23.5284s)
7. Russell Ingall – Caltex Havoline Falcon (1m23.6547s)
8. Steve Ellery – Super Cheap Falcon (1m23.7380s)
9. Paul Radisich – Betta Electrical Triple 8 Falcon (1m24.0422s)
10. Simon Wills – Team Dynamik Commodore (1m28.3956)

although ambrose got 3rd, his qualifying lap was the fastest at clipsal, ever! he said he lost a little bit of confidence going into the shootout.

its also the first time in history since HRT hasnt had a car in a shootout and the first time skaifes missed the shootout since 2001 (apparently thats when it was introduced)

also i dont think tony Longhurst will start the first race, he had a pretty solid accident at turn one in qualifying

[Falcon500]

Now that was an enjoyable race! it had dueling it had close calls it had stacks and it had unlikly people doing well! (yay Setos in 10th :D ) ambrose won which was tops! followed by steven richards...good on him and ingall in third. Things of note tander was DNFed for being pushed down the pits and dale breede had a large stack other sufferd from stacks and failures...there was an unusually high utrition rate this race with numerous people breaking down...i thinks LP was right this new engine pland didnt help no body....and skaife done a great job of catch up too....itll probly be an even better race tomorrow!

[motorsportnerd]

It was a good race. Best performance of the race award would have to go to Paul Weel - last to 5th. Worst strategic move to Murphy - why didn't he pit as soon as the safety car board went out? Best excuse - Morris - "I was passed by three cars quickly after we started racing again because I picked up debris on the tyres (following the restart where he immediately ran wide at turn 2 due to the pressure of the field on his ass). Without the safety car for Brede's accident, Morris may well have won. He may still have won if he could have resisted the pressure for a few more corners while his tyres came up to temperature. Surprise of the race - seeing Luff run second. He was more affected by the safety car than Morris, especially when Bright turned him around. Worst luck of the race - Max Wilson. He had plenty of speed and wasn't doing anything stupid. Just unfortunat to be one of the victims of Kelly's crash by picking up a puncture. Save of the day to Wilson as well. That was brilliant car control when the tyre let go. 360 spin, avoided the walls, dropped the clutch and went went off (slowly) once pointing straight again. Brilliant. No question of Wilson's car control skills. He did recover somewhat to 11th, but retired near the end for some reason (the V8 website doesn't give the reason and the Ten coverage didn't mention it). Overall best performance on the day to Ambrose. Showed why he's the defending champion. Let's hope he can finally win an Adelaide 500 for Ford.

Also, anyone know why Brede is driving for Dynamic? There are much better drivers out there who are currently unemployed. Brede wasn't even that great in Konica's. He must be taking one helluva sponsor deal to Dynamic, because he sure hasn't got the ride through ability. It's a pity that we're entering an era of pay drivers in both F1 and V8 Supercars...

[Falcon500]

Agreed paul wheel done great...
I think there where worse out there but murphs was the most notable...
Morris done well and made a human error...it happens.
Well wilson was a lcassic when he used to get turned around and bag up his rears...hes muchly improved since then...
Sentimental faveorite Seto :D
Oscar Fianotto has had experiances with him in the past so he must know something we dont....and a second in probly the most competative konica year their was 02 isnt bad at all.....

[fpv_gtho]

murphy was saying he could come into the pits during the first safetly car period because ambrose and ingall pitting at the same time didnt leave him enough room for his pit boom. it sounds fair enough but there looked to be plenty of time still from the safety car for murph to try and squeeze in there, i mean even after the safety car goes its a fairly good time to go in as the fields all bunched up still.

well the top moment for me would probably have been when i think it was either paul weel or rick kelly got pushed out wide on a corner and slid off towards the grandstand, the coverage only showed it in the background but you heard this massive roar from the crowd as it happened and i just cracked up laughing.

it really wouldve been a disaster though if someone happened to be going through pits just as Tander was being pushed back through there though. all the reason why he got black flagged i guess

[Falcon500]

Well that last race was strange to say the least a lot of heaver hitters went out lots and lots of stacks and 8 holdens in the top 10 as i said before very hig utrition rate all considering about half the field didnt make it too the end...but all in all a good result....

[fpv_gtho]

well it all provided great entertainment, unfortunately at the cost of mostly the minor teams with MGR really being the only big budget team with great losses. i might be starting a treand with this, but my black flag award's gotta go to john bowe for his 2 drive throughs and the red flag award to paul dumbrell for unfortunately causing the spin with mcconville that took out 4 of the top 10 drivers and almost stopped the race

[Falcon500]

MGR?...
I think that was a stupid move on the part of DUMBrell hes a good driver and all but that was just shocking!

[fpv_gtho]

[QUOTE=Falcon500]MGR?...[QUOTE]


yeah blame the stupid keyboards at school for that one, the keys are as stiff as anything......its supposed to be GRM

well dumbrells already gotten the cop for his actions.........


Dumbrell Fined $10,000 and Docked 75 Championship Points
Release Date: 22/03/2004
Holden driver Paul Dumbrell has been fined $10,000 and docked 75 championship points for careless driving that resulted in a four car pileup during yesterday’s V8 Supercar Championship Series opener in Adelaide.

Dumbrell was deemed by race stewards as the cause of the accident that caused significant damage to the V8 Supercars of Brad Jones, Mark Winterbottom, Cameron McConville and Steven Johnson. While Dumbrell continued all four other cars involved failed to finish.

Richards managed to limp back to his garage but Jones, Winterbottom and McConville’s cars needed to be removed from the track.

Stewards heard evidence from Dumbrell and McConville. They also viewed in-car footage from the cars of Dumbrell, Winterbottom, Johnson and McConville.

Dumbrell had finished the two-race Clipsal 500 in seventh place. By docking 75 championship point he moves back to equal 19th with Warren Luff.

Castrol Perkins Motorsport have appealed the decision. The appeal is likely to take place in the V8 Supercar Court of Appeal on Thursday night at CAMS headquarters in Victoria.

Reigning champion Marcos Ambrose won the event which attracted a record crowd of 237,000 over the four days of racing.

Again Ambrose was the lone Ford among a brace of Holdens, Steven Richards and Jason Bright joining him on the podium with John Bowe the next Falcon way down in ninth spot.

The HRT team had another troubled day with Mark Skaife limping over the line with a damaged Commodore and Todd Kelly fighting hard to 10th in the final race after he failed to finish.

[puthpaul]

Ambrose, anyone?????

[Falcon500]

Well that was brutal and savge..i wonder what larry reaction would be likeat the hearing...i doubt itll be the he deserved it he said about richards spearing Jones off the track at bathurst (and their getting at skaife and ingall when he got away unscathed for rude innacurate and promoting richards useing his car as a 600+hp wepon...)
And i wonder what holding the might of HRT back this year...they have even less reasons not to be at the top of their game this time around...

[fpv_gtho]

well HRT and Kmart were both complaining about rear end grip whilst both the SBR cars were being relatively easy on the tyres, so my guess is some sort of setup problem that steven richards and jason bright has gotten around but the big 2 are scratching their heads about. it was like this last year and it turned around so who knows, we may have a repeat of last year but hopefully without the slump in form ambrose had

[Falcon500]

Well PWR where surging foreward this race....mabey a snese of bad karma since skaife had to share testing days at one stage and cut them out while they where team brock....there is a Greg Murphy fan at work (one of the reaps) and i pointed out how ordinary then he should of...Then i talked about ambrose doing well and then talked about PWRs performance and how disenchanted i was at seto being involved in a stack....He took it quitewell and we then talked f1 about how webber stalled and then got a puncutre...well at least hes proven the car is fast and proven howwell he cant do when it works....
Thats one thing the new fords seem to do very well maintain tyres look at bathurst whilepeoplewhere slideing about lowndes and seton where just cruising along...and ambroses car seems to do fantasticly in that sense too...

[fpv_gtho]

well that was rather unfortunate for webber but hes taking it all on his shoulders, admitting his faults and just in general trying to move forward from it all. hes definately someone to pay close attention to when and if he joins williams

well last bathurst ambrose got i think 2 punctures and had to then make 2 unneccesary stops, yet he still finished in the top 10 (but then again thexton got 16th). car 6's good tyre and economy can be put down to its lack of power i guess, although even with that the team got it onto the podium at second so full credit to them when they actually get the package working. just like mruph, FPR's highs are high and their low's are low and they need to break out of that habit.

well still skaife and murph's performances are unexplainable, perhaps skaifes reign has finally put him back to a top 10 driver rather than top 3 but i dont know what the go is with murphy, last time he was going good was pukekohe

[Falcon500]

Well at least hes taken it well and in the team he can say i took jaguar to their first front row start....
Wellthats true someof the most unlikyteams done very well at this bathurst hopefully GT wont get up JBs arse....and that was on the first few laps...
This might be an early prediction but i think bathurst will be a very interesting event indeed this year...
Well murphhad bad luck rember he gotpole position so hes got pace at least...skaife though it a real mystery...

[fpv_gtho]

Well just the thought of taking them to the front row should give Webber the confidence to move forward and further improve the car for Bahrain, he was probably eating himself up more for his performance a fortnight ago.

Well they were predicting before Bathurst last year that there would be a surprise in the final placings and i guess that came in the way of Steve ellery and Luke Youlden getting 3rd and maybe even in a way FPR getting second, with the car being down on power and all. I'm hoping Ford does crack a win this year, they were in a great position to do so last year and the TAB was recording more bets for Ford to win than Holden so obviously the people knew about Ambrose turning the tides. But as it is every year, its what happens on the Bathurst weekend that usually determines who wins, not how everyone goes throughout the year

[Falcon500]

Well you never know what the future holds...maybey with afew good performances maybey jaguar and its owner ford might donate more money too them...then of course this might not be enough...who knows...
Im hopeing for a good race more then anything for bathurst though a win would defintly make my day!

[fpv_gtho]

well technically i guess Ford have their noses in 2 teams, with them also supplying the engines for Jordan, so perhaps being involved in 2 teams as opposed to 1, is holding the better of the 2 back, but still Ferrari are also involved with Sauber Petronas and theyre hardly being held back, so perhaps they just need to try and turn the situation to benefit them, or at least benefit them better.

well i think alot of people, Ford fans especially will be dying for a win by now, we got so close last year and Ambrose was right in his prime but Ingall's influence on the car setup held him back as well as the punctures he got on race day, but if we dont get a win this year theres definately going to be alot of frowns and fingers pointed from the public

[Falcon500]

Well if you look closely they are also supplying engines to minardi/cosworth.... so really they have engine tied up in 3 teams.....jaguar haveing the biggest bidget...
Im not fussed if they win or not ill be happy for a good result....i said if ford wins this year ill try and give up smokeing (another good turn deserves another)...rember try being the oprative word...

[fpv_gtho]

well nicotine is probably one of the hardest drugs to get over, its right up there with heroin, but best of luck to you....i we'll only know the week leading up to bathurst though if fords in any sort of position to break the drought though

well i noticed minardi also had cosworth after them, cosworth many a time developing ford engines so yeah theres a link there i suppose.

with the current performance from the bridgestones in contrast to the michelins though, and with jordan and minardi being on bridgestones whilst jaguar is on the michelins, next year jaguar could join ferrari, sauber , jordan and minardi with the bridgestones.

[Falcon500]

Well in a way i want to give up but in a way i dont...
Cosworth is a facotry in pommy land who made the very famous cossie engines that done very well around the world in touring cars and rallys...so they have very good credentials but more then likly dont have the budget ferrari,Merc McLarren and some of the others have...that said they are a step up from the asia motorsports engines(i think) that muinardi used to use they had a hp advantage and where lighter...
If their is such aproblem with rubber why not open up tyre contract to all big manufactuors or introduce a controll item...either way this should stop bitching to an extent...

[fpv_gtho]

well my mums a pretty heavy smoker so although i know a little bit about it, im not a smoker myself so its not as if ive been there, done that so to spoeak. the impressino ive gotten from the many times my mums tried to cut down and quit is getting down to a small and reasonable amount of cigarettes per day (for a pack a day smoker) is easy if you try not to think about it, but the problem i guess comes when you just doing nothing and normally would light up a smoke, you start thinking about it and then of course the cravings come i guess.

well the tyre war is something that makes F1 special i guess. i suppose were lucky we dont have to go through it in V8 Supercars (although i suppose we did in 2001) where teams are blaming lack of performance on what rubber's being used, but it seems only ferrari is the only big team to use the bridgestones so im thinking the michelins are a better all round tyre, but if youve got the engineers and development budget to get everything out of the bridgestones, i guess theyre faster........

[Falcon500]

Well boredom,stress and habit are the worst causes like when im playing a very enthralling game on the pooter i usually dont go but when ucp has its dummy spit thats when i sually have a cig....But i cant blame wouter for a bad habit....
I think it makes f1 abunch of mark skaifes and bradly jones'.....

[fpv_gtho]

well the last thing we need is too many highly opinionated people with links to the TEGA board lol.....

well stress i think is a very big issue with quitting smoking, theres probably been a number of times when my mums been trying to cut down from a pack a day to less than half of that, and one small thing that my brothers done has made her go back to the full pack. i think its also the case with alot of drugs, legal and illegal, that the initial hit can cure depression, stress etc. but if your not left with an addiction, the initial problem is only worse!

[Falcon500]

I stress far too easily...something doesnt go right i just curse and swear...a smoke usually helps calm me down...
I wonder what skaify will do to tega?will it improve? or will he fail just like the last mob?

[fpv_gtho]

have you ever wondered whether the smoking itself has made yuo stress more? if so its like an adverse affect: you start smoking, you stop, you get stressed, you need a cigarette, you stop, you get stressed easier, you need more cigarette's. it just keeps going like that untill you killing yourself with cigarette's and all the while the nicotine companies are making billions off it, same with the government with the 45% or whatever it is tax charged on cigarettes.


well i believe its kim jones, mark larkham, garry rogers, mark skaife and an independant representative that makes up the 5 seat board so theres alot of tempers flying there and i guess larko is the only team representative that won't get hyped up over nothing, so to speak

[Falcon500]

Not likely the only time i chain smoke is when im drinking...this morning i woke up dehidrated(so very much so i couldent talk untill i drained a bottle of water),hung over and felt like i went thorugh a tobacco harvest...funny my tabac packet was still full...i probly bludged alot of smokes that night....
Larko does get hyped up but usually its for a very good reason....most of these peoplein the board will bit kick scratch and pullhair to get their way....larko is a great pollie as well as a utterly underated driver

[fpv_gtho]

well i cant really recall larko having any garry rogers, kim or brad jones, larry perkins or mark skaife style dummy spits so hes probably a breathe of fresh air at times at TEGA. im not saying brad jones will wail on about anything either but your always hearing him complain about something that i guess hes got a case about but most of the time i think its aimed at the inconsistency of the stewards.

[Falcon500]

Well i commented that he lookedlike he was nearly about to cry at bathurst when he got turned around after clawing his way back up to 5th in bathurst and my brother said "he loomkslike hwas always about to cry...." Hes not popular even with some ford fans...i dont mind the jones's...but they are becomming like the dattos (TV personality not superscied jap car) of motorspot...their every where!
I think larko would quetly sit their while water jugs and other projetilesare thrown around the room (dramatization :D ) i dopnt theink hell be as easly upset as some of the members of this board...

[fpv_gtho]

well larko has seen the rough end of the game having to fund his own team whilst fend everyone off with a stick, so i guess hes used to failure of sorts. its made a better person out of him though as he keeps a cool attitude if in qualifying he can get 5th but by the end of the shootout hes 9th cause he knows he was lucky enough to get in the shootout in the first place.

i think the jones's are rather the opposite, once they know how good they can do nothings good enough until the reclaim it

[Falcon500]

Well i was refering to the fact their every where...theres already afew in other motsports...but a good obvservaion that one...
Larko knows what being patient can do...look at his teams growth over the years and the vast array of diffrent (compared to more car related ones on other teams) sponsors hes had

[fpv_gtho]

its also given him a couple of consecutive top 5 finishes for the team recently which looks to be the same following into eastern creek.

well if you think the jones's are everywhere, then whats your opinion of the kelly's? thats gotta be a fun family reunion, 2 proud holden driving kelly's in the V8's whilst 'ol owen's driving for DJR in the konica's

[Falcon500]

They are currently going from strength to strength and even when larko was handed the short end of the stick you never saw him with any more then a slight pout....only person who handels bad things better is loundes...how that boy can smile after a crash is beyond me.....
Yeah and he came from driveing a ford in the Historics...and shock horror another kelly has taken his posi!
So we have 2 Datto of the motorsport world...one day it wouldent suprise me if everyone in the races where Jones' or Kelley's lmao

[fpv_gtho]

you would almost think the links between Orrcon and SBR are further than Frosty and the engine deal. How easily they let him go and then just a couple of months later they announce a formal relationship between each other, it makes you think theyve been helping each other out behind the scenes for a while now or something.

i think lowndes' trump card is his good nature. i think unlike alot of drivers in the heat of the moment he knows whats expected of him and what he can and can't blame on the engineers and he just tells the story as it is, if he screws up hes game enough to just mvoe on from that and make a better driver out of himself from it. coming away from the first round with no points is a hard pill to swallow though

[Falcon500]

I kind of doubt it...they lacked the immense black smoke the SBR cars had at low revs...and the inside set up of their cars are "visably" i have my doubts....
lowndes can keep a straight face even when bad things happen unlike murph,ingall,skaife,perkins and numerous others this racehe said he was happier with the cars set up yesterday...they fiddled around with it between races and upset the cars balance.
The worst ive seen seto react was when he cried at bathurst in about 94 i think it was...6 laps from the finish 2 laps ahead of perkins his nearest competator bathurst council restored his fathers bathurst winning car on the 30th aniversiary of bos win...and they offerd him either his fathers car or $30,000 in cash if he won...and a valve spring let go very sad moment is ATCC history....if i rember correctlyperkins didnt offer any sympathies either.

[fpv_gtho]

well there probably wouldnt be any point claiming on sunday the car had more speed or felt more comfortable if he was just purely and simply doing alot better on saturday. car balance i guess is something that they really need to be getting right in practise then fiddling with the minor things inbetween races because for something major its a pretty big risk.

i remember seeing some footage from that race, i think it was just seto just sitting in his car at the end of conrod and he just sat there......just thinking about how close he got i suppose and that 2 lap lead wouldve been good because even last year with murphy tearing around, skaife was hot on his heels

[Falcon500]

A car can be the best someone ever though it was set up and not do well....he said he wasnt as happy with the car as the previous day...results are irrespective of how the car feels to a driver....
Sakife was catching up but his door was flapping in the which screwd his day....leading by a few laps now days is really uncommon...its really a double edged sword...if its notwho you support its bad...but if you like whos in front its tops...probly better the raceing is close...adds to the excitement

[fpv_gtho]

well alot can depend on the safety cars, if theres alot of crashes the top drivers really arent going to get much of a chance to spread their legs and rack up some flying laps and last year i think about 10 laps before the finish the safety car went out so if it hadnt have been for skaife's black flag it wouldve been really close between him and murphy right until the finish, but i think murphy had the speed to hold him off.

[Falcon500]

Yeah but did murphy have the tyres and the fuel to hold him off? You can be the fastest bloke on the track but if your cars showing its second hand nature then your really stuffed....

[fpv_gtho]

well i think he wouldve been determined enough to keep infront of skaife, over half the track if you try go through the corners 2 wide you can get yourself into some serious strife so it was unlikely he couldve been showed the black flag.

[Falcon500]

Yeah well in todays race i think skaife tried too damn hard and sent himself off the track twice in the greasy conditions...i was suprised by kellys victory too...

[fpv_gtho]

well both instances, skaife seemed to be under pressure from ambrose in a way, wether it was skaife trying to pass ambrose or vice versa so maybe it all got to be too much concentration for him, as the commentators were saying, the wet races really get the drivers thinking lap in, lap out.

well when you look at the misfortune of everyone else, its not that bad rick kelly won. like lowndes battled a lack of power, ambrose, ingall, todd kelly, skaife and murphy all seemed to go for a semi wet setup that wasnt enough so they couldnt get enough speed or at least hold it, after all ambrose did set the fastest lap of the race but that was actually in semi wet conditions when his setup wouldve been working the best for him. all eyes will be on greg murphy for pukekohe though

[Falcon500]

Yeah but also you notice that skaife carried far too much speed into the corners...he was tempting fate...and the second time was when he didnt have any tyres left....
He couldent of been lacking too much power passing 14 people on a 50/50 set up....

[motorsportnerd]

The worst ive seen seto react was when he cried at bathurst in about 94 i think it was...6 laps from the finish 2 laps ahead of perkins his nearest competator bathurst council restored his fathers bathurst winning car on the 30th aniversiary of bos win...and they offerd him either his fathers car or $30,000 in cash if he won...and a valve spring let go very sad moment is ATCC history....if i rember correctlyperkins didnt offer any sympathies either.


It was 1995. And he was 20 seconds ahead, not two laps. Was one of the most heartbreaking moments at Bathurst though. And Bathurst was a stand alone event then, not part of the ATCC.
And how about Radisich in 1999? Similar story. About 20 seconds ahead with 10 laps left. Had a minor brush was a lapped car which ripped the valve stem out of the tyre. That resulted in a pitstop. Possible win gone. Then a couple of laps later the Shell Ford stopped going up mountain straight. Possible podium gone. The Shell car had dominated all day. Radisich was shown on TV feeding a horse once he got out of the car...
Then there's Longhurst in 2000... I could go on...
As they say, that's motor racing.

[motorsportnerd]

Interesting race today. I also was surprised. If the race had continued Lowndes would have got Kelly.

But, quickly. Driver of the day Rick Kelly. Didn't put a foot wrong. Close second Lowndes. Not sure how he didn't go off in the last few laps. Heart in mouth stuff. Thought he'd lost it a few times on the in car shot. Proves once again how good Lownde's car control is.

Can't really nominate a goose of the day. The conditions were to extreme. Todd Kelly was a little unlucky or a little stupid depending on your view though. A off, hit upon return and spun, then hit again upon return. Either he walked under a ladder and was just unlucky or he should watch out more carefully... The weather was extreme though, so he was probably suffering from fogged up windows. I'll call it unlucky this time...

[fpv_gtho]

well if not a driver to take the goose award, how about give the award just to HRT in general. if skaife pushing himself too far through the corners wasnt enough, just add todd kelly's experiences and now after the 2nd round, skaifes 15th in the championship

[Falcon500]

Fogged upwindows...but if you look carefully the person who hit him was off the raceing line.....and with the greasy conditions and the speed he was traveiling even if he didn break (which i think he did in the last split second) didnt help at all....
I think skaifys panicing a bit with toughts going throug his head like im doing poorly (compared to before) for a back to back champion and yeah as has been mentioned before his spins where provokedby over doing his wet driveing....what a strange championshipit will be if HRT dont get a podium finish at the end of the year....and if they have one more race like this it will happen!

[motorsportnerd]

well if not a driver to take the goose award, how about give the award just to HRT in general. if skaife pushing himself too far through the corners wasnt enough, just add todd kelly's experiences and now after the 2nd round, skaifes 15th in the championship

The weather was too extreme. Ambrose outbraked himself and went off as well... Team of the day was K-Mart. Two cars in the top 6. And I think a few drivers have walked under ladders recently. Steven Ellery's luck is pretty rotten. And Ingall has had bad luck as well.

[fpv_gtho]

well its been said before, wet races are a completely different ball game to dry ones. lap in, lap out drivers have to almost go through a completely unique method to get through each lap because its pretty impossible to have a wet race and the conditions stay consistent. even when the rain is constant, it builds up on the track. in dry races you only have the track and air temperatures to worry about the most.

well pukekohe's next and this could be the round that Kmart really how their stuff and greg murphy really puts the challenge up to ambrose, but it could yet be another holden strangehold ambrose breaks.

well now we have skaife showing he may be out of a podium finish, and lowndes writing off the critics saying hes gooooone. skaife's 15th and lowndes is 16th now, but have a look at my points system and with a system that is more generous to those who push forward, lowndes was rocketed to 5th

[Falcon500]

And not to mention short life of wets when the race line drys out....
Lowndes is more then likly out of a podium too....but oh well some results and a top 10 finish would be incourging enough for me...
Ambrose nearly won pukekoe in 02 but a burst tyre just off the finsih line set him back to 3rd in that race and got him a second in the race (he had the same results as murphy but murphywon because he won the 2nd race) Itll be intresting never the less...

[fpv_gtho]

well im not sure if the life of the tyres die out, all i know is in the dry conditions, the tread loses its square edge which plays murder on the grip but i suppose it would tear away at the tyre.

well hopefully he's going to be able to be in a stong position this year. whilst most people will be lookign at radisich and murphy to please the home crown, ambrose could use that to be the underdog over the weekend.

[v8chick]

i think the team of the 2nd round was definitly Kmart racing even though the really struggled in practice and qualifying they turnd it round race day and man did rick kelly hav car speed. although big murph fan i think itll b a push for him to win it 4 a 4th time at puke ambrose definitely had the car speed last year and as long as its not skaife knocking murph off his puke perch ill b happy. i would luv murph to do it again but itl b alot different over here 4 this round , different half of the year and alot different weather conditions, plus murph has been complaining that they still need to do alot of work on their vy and find more speed in different situations, but i say if its raining over her come puke in a couple of weeks time my moneys on murph ;)

[fpv_gtho]

well i dont think skaife will be challenging murphy for the round win, it could very well just be ambrose and murphy slugging it out all weekend but murph needs to make sure he gets into the shootout more than anything, he missed out at eastern creek. the different weather could be a small thing or a big thing. last time round they had the varying conditions and it rained halfway through the shootout so they had to cancel it, well right about now it wouldnt be out of place for the same thing to happen

[Pure Muscle]

I think anything is possible after hearing the discussions on V8 Superstars today. It's idiotic to judge anything after Eastern Creek, no one knew what would happen in crazy weather like that. Skaife seems to be in good form, even though he spun out after taking first from Ambrose he still managed to climb right back up to challenge Ambrose again, in that horrible weather with a new car! Murphy is always a strong racer, it'll be an awesome race at New Zealand next month, will be very interesting to see how Murphy goes.
I just hope the rest of this season won't be as bad for the drivers as the first two races have been so far.

I'll place a bet on who will win after we have the first clean race, which will hopefully be round 3. I have to admit that Skaife is looking very strong after all that happened at the Creek.

[fpv_gtho]

well its been 2 rounds already and skaife hasnt been at his best. one would hope his season doesnt stay like this as he's 15th on the points chart and almost a rounds worth of points behind Ambrose and Richards which will hurt his chances of taking the championship off Ambrose severely. people say that for Murphy, his highs are high and his lows are low, but so far this season he's been playing fairly low key.....pukekohe could make or break his championship hopes for this year.....

[Falcon500]

Well its going to turn out a bit like last year i think...were going to have to wait for several rounds to see if things clear out....

[fpv_gtho]

i think its just a usual driver routine to take until about the 4th-5th round to get back into the full spirit of things, its still a worrying thought though for some that skaife is so far back after so few rounds

[Falcon500]

Well funny how it doesnt worry me :rolleyes: HRT cant really afford to have one more lemon race as i already said....but every teamcant be perfect...despite all their resources a glitch or driver error can still costthem a shot (how ever unlikly it is now) at the series....

[fpv_gtho]

well lowndes is almost ahead of skaife in points after not getting anything at all in the first round. one more dud round and not only will skaife be well and truly out of championship contention, he may as well kiss a top 30 or even a top 10 finish good bye

[Falcon500]

a top 10 would be easy done for mr skaife i would think...but a podium would nearly be a pipe dream...unless he shows his 02 form from now on imho....it will be interesting to see if lowndes can keepup the pace he showed rember he had a fair bit of pace in adversity last year and dropped off later on....

[fpv_gtho]

well unless Skaife gets back into his usual form he may well be lookign to finish outside of the top 10. a couple more mediocre performances will do it for him. lowndes hasnt really got a good enough car for in the dry yet, if he got a better package his form would be able to do more for him

[Falcon500]

Well its a bit hard to judge lwondes based on perforamnces wehave seen much like we are thinking skaife will be doing better...we really dont know...im thinking lowndes is improveing a bit...maybey prodrive and him are working out his new chassis?i dont know but im thinking hell do better this year...not that itll be to an avail given how far back he is...

[fpv_gtho]

well i guess when you stick a superpower in the motorsport world, a new car and an A grade driver together, the performances are going to fluctuate a bit, we saw it with seton at pukekohe last year, he had enough pace to give ambrose a headache, yet the following round at easter creek he kept suffering from misfires.

[Falcon500]

Its all up to luck really FPR are comming to grips i think...people are giveing them a ahrd time because its takeing too long....and as a by product apprently most peoplethink thje drivers are now wash ups despite performances later in the year of 03.....finsihing bathurst let alone comming 2nd is no mean feat...it lifted BJR to get the sponsorship to get a 2nd car and jb as a 2nd driver....

[fpv_gtho]

well BJ would be paying himself and JB about $200K each year to race so that extra sponsorship wouldve gone along way, steve ellery was in the same position except his sandown and bathurst performances kept bob thorn signing the cheques every month. well lowndes despite people thinking hes a washup is believed to be one of the highest payed drivers, him and skaife are rumoured to be payed $500K a year

[Falcon500]

Well he does also have expeasive hobbies as inowning a farm and horse training...he trains the horses himself but to buy a thourgbread aniamals is very bi biccies indeed...
From what i can tell skaife has no hobbies :confused: he loves his son now about 5-6-7? very dearly loves to spend timewithhis family...very deepman in that respect and other then that nothing...reminds me alittle of michael schumaker in that sense...almost robot like...

[fpv_gtho]

well the farm could very well swallow up half of it, from what ive gathered he doesnt run a simple single barn with a pair of horses either, i think hes got a good hundred hectares with a dozen or more horses.......

i dont really know what the go is with skaife, you would think someone like him with kids would be trying to get them into go carts or something, like you dont have to be the son of a toruing car legend to want to get into motorsport, its something i want to do!!!!

but still, his son is 6-8 as you say, and from what ive heard its something kids tend to get more full into at around 10 so by theyre 16 theyre in the formula fords

[Falcon500]

Yeah well vet bills on horses (and this is only a few horses) coost a person i know 4k for a cheak up on the whole lot! with several and breading programs feeding...and lets not forget family and cost of liveing etc etc....
If i was on the wage i would put half away for 4 years and gain xitizenship in monaco just because i can :) mick doolan did lol and he never uses his wonderful house in monaco either!
Well Skaife strikes me as a bitter petty little man at times who never achieved his dream of being an f1 driver...maybey he dint want his son to be like that...or maybey his son doesnt care....i suppose it happens....of course i have a distan rello in the konica series and im dieing to meet him....ill need to frag my grandfather out to the wakefield round maybey....

[fpv_gtho]

well even just minor things for dogs now can set you back a couple of grand, and horses are a fair bit bigger than dogs, plus for most things you would expect you cant get your local veterinarian to take care of, which means getting a specialist which then costs more......it just gets worse and worse, and you havent even fed the buggers yet!!

well skaife comes of as someone who's too focused on their own career to really have much fun. in saying that though you get thinking that the only reason he stuck his hand up to sign the HRT ownership contract was to keep him earning that half a million each year, its not as if he can go back to gibson motorsport......

[Falcon500]

Animals very expensive things but when you get into herd and sports animals....
No I just think hes a wet blanket...he is focused but it doesnt invade on his life style...imo he no doubt has numerous hobbys but you just dont hear about them...and he doesnt strike me asajet skier or a wakeboarder likemost v8 drivers are....And i doubt hed want back at gibson's

[fpv_gtho]

they really get into the jetski-ing, i remember watching the special they did when some of the V8 drivers took some of the indy drivers offshore on the jet ski's and steven johnson and paul morris seemed to really be getting right into it, maybe skaife stuck in the melbourne weather doesnt get much of a chance to get out, or he feels hes left it a bit late now that hes 37

[Falcon500]

As i said he no doubt has a hobby everyone does...just i havent heard (or ignored) of what it is....
That is steven Johnsons big hobby....David Besnards isremote controll race cars as well as fitness...cam McOnville is another one i dont know much about ...seems fitness and wake boarding are his past times....

[fpv_gtho]

well russel ingall seems keen on getting good on the jetski, i remember david besnard was part of the special at pukekohe where they went around on the 4 wheelers and i think it was lowndes that crashed his one.....

well skaife is slowly being taken out of the spotlight, hes no longer the champ and in ways not the best holden driver anymore. some people would consider greg murphy a much better driver, but for me theyve both got their moments where you dont want to know them

[Falcon500]

I rember a speacial where they took some holden drivers out on a dirt bike track and greg murphy stacked and so did the the channel10 bloke that went with them(not to mention stalled it)
I think in the 4 wheeler one someone also got bogged...
Bargs ran in the charity bash where they get pre 70s cars abnd raise mioney for charity....

[fpv_gtho]

i cant recall seeing any of those, then again it was only 2003 i tried to make a point of watching every race other than bathurst which i think the whole country makes a point of watching......well the 4 wheelers looked like at a bit of a speed could become somewhat unstable

[Falcon500]

Well that charity bashthing was last year....
Melbounre cups more popular almost literally everyone in the country whatches that.....
Them bloddy 4 wheelers are really bad for stability....at nearly any speed...

[fpv_gtho]

well i thik the 4 wheelers would be somewhat better than say, a 3 wheeler. i had a 3 wheeler (before my brother broke it) and i took it down to the park at the end of my street with a couple of friends and at top speed you really didnt want to be doing much more than about 20 degrees of turning otherwise it felt as if the outside rear wheel was going to lift up