would german or american cars ever replace italian cars?

[silverhawk]

there are some cars like the porsche carrera gt, mercedes SLR , chrysler me4-12 ,etc. which made me think if these & newer cars would take over italian cars some day.
before these cars came there were very few cars that could match the performance, styling etc. of ferraris & lambos like the CLK GTR, saleen s7, porsche gt1 etc.
so my question is that with the changing of time do u think that would german or american cars ever replace italian cars?
i just want to know yor opinion & if possible a brief discussion.
thanx

[crisis]

I dont know if they would "replace" them whatever that means, but I imagine that the Yanks will eventually own them.

[Batmobile_Turbo]

i hope chrysler doesn't take over Lambo again, Ferarri and Maserati is owned by Fiat, and so is Lancia. and Pagani uses a Mercedes engine. i don't think that Italian cars will be "replaced", though American and German cars are good competitors for italian cars.

[crisis]

I was of the understanding Fiat were not travelling that well. Prime for a takeover.

[Egg Nog]

i hope chrysler doesn't take over Lambo again, Ferarri and Maserati is owned by Fiat, and so is Lancia. and Pagani uses a Mercedes engine. i don't think that Italian cars will be "replaced", though American and German cars are good competitors for italian cars.

I don't think Chrysler will take over Lamborghini again... that would require that they purchase the entire VAG in the process ;)

[UK CARS]

the world of supercars if the germans and yanks took over the italians would be HELL!!!

[ZerK]

Personally I think that American, German and Italian car manufacturers have such different attitudes to their vehicles that none could really properly act as a substitute for another.

[Matra et Alpine]

the world of supercars if the germans and yanks took over the italians would be HELL!!!Made me think of a modifation to an old joke .....
heaven is:
French cook
British police
German mechanic
Scottish lover
Italian/German/French/British sportscars
and the Swiss run everything

hell is:
British cook
German police
French mechanic
Swiss lover
American sportcars
and the Italians run everything

[Wouter Melissen]

The ME Four-Twelve is a Pagani Zonda with a new body and slightly modified engine.

[Doza]

i hope chrysler doesn't take over Lambo again, Ferarri and Maserati is owned by Fiat, and so is Lancia. and Pagani uses a Mercedes engine. i don't think that Italian cars will be "replaced", though American and German cars are good competitors for italian cars.
And GM has a hand in Fiat, and Fiat I've heard is having financial woes, so through the grapevine, the General will probably end up owning Ferrari, Lancia, and Maserati.

[MikeMcLarenF1]

I'd rather think not because italian and germans compete in different leagues imo. German. fast, refined, or comfortable. To me, italian cars are actually light, fast, also styled differently. I think the italians are good at making straight lines look exotic, like the enzo, and the Alfa GTV makes..... weird lines look sexy. if u were to put any of those "italian" lines on any german car they'd look weird.

[Falcon500]

Well i think this might be worth while saying and its much like the point that crisis made The world willmore then likly be left with 3 or 4 groups of manufactuors and the main ones will more then likly be GM,ford,Nissan and mistsubishi and more then likly not in that order....

[henk4]

The world willmore then likly be left with 3 or 4 groups of manufactuors and the main ones will more then likly be GM,ford,Nissan and mistsubishi and more then likly not in that order....

Nissan is already controlled by Renault, and Mitsubishi by Daimler-Benz. It's about time that Toyota enters the market!.

[henk4]

Made me think of a modifation to an old joke .....
heaven is:
French cook
British police
German mechanic
Scottish lover
Italian/German/French/British sportscars
and the Swiss run everything

hell is:
British cook
German police
French mechanic
Swiss lover
American sportcars
and the Italians run everything

Just noted that there are no Scots in hell. When you have been at parking lots of the Geneva motor show, you will immediately fully disagree with your assumption about the Swiss in heaven.

[Matra et Alpine]

Just noted that there are no Scots in hell.
Well of course not :)

When you have been at parking lots of the Geneva motor show, you will immediately fully disagree with your assumption about the Swiss in heaven.
I've always been bussed or stayed local for Geneva shows :)
And telecom shows don't attract the same numbers !!!!

[henk4]

Well of course not :) Why "of course"??

I've always been bussed or stayed local for Geneva shows :)
And telecom shows don't attract the same numbers !!!!
We stayed in France 30 km away, all closer accomodation had been taken up by press, standbuilders, etc. The panic at the parking lots was already there during the press days, imagine it on a day when it's open for the general public.

[Falcon500]

Pehaps the modifaction of this joke was in hell they might of been scottish cars :p :)

[Matra et Alpine]

Pehaps the modifaction of this joke was in hell they might of been scottish cars :p :)
How dare you - Hillman Imp, a great Scottish car :)

Actually Scottish manufacturers were some of the world leaders in the early days of motoring and exported cars all over the world.
At the time Glasgow was one of THE world ports and a lot of trade and industrial engineering was centred there - shipbuilding being the one most folks know.

Here's a few ....
Argylls great cars of the day, remembered for the excellent factory and working conditions for their employees.
Arrol-Johnston ( built the body for the 1928 Bluebird )
James McGeoch - small manufactirer famous for a car called SEETSTU - the old name for Paisley but also it was a 2-seater - clever huh !!! NOT !!! )
North British Motor Manufacturing Company in Dumfries exported to Brazil. A 1907 ad prouldy proclaimed "Scotland makes the best cars in the world and we make the best in Scotland"

Another friend's curator of the Scottsh Museum transport section :)

[henk4]

I can't help noticing that all those brands have disappeared (actually I never heard of any of them, but that was because my Grandpa was very much French oriented and German oriented, and his personal foe was Lord Kitchener). You don't want me to tell a little bit more about the demise of Upper Clyde Shipbuilders I hope.

[Matra et Alpine]

I can't help noticing that all those brands have disappeared
Albion works still lives on in truck and heavy axle manufacturer.
Car manufacturers grew and died many times in the early 1900s, so most of them were one car companies, successful but when someone came out with a better car they couldn't match.
Argylls was one of the big losses, partly after WW1 - see hsitory would have to come into it - as most workers had gone and conversion back to peace-time was too expensive and NO government help on those days - certainly not north of the border :(
Others combined ( the small town of Paisley at one time had 6 car manufacturers !! ) and ultimately re-combined and ended up in the disaster of the 1960/70s - British Leyland !!
Friend ( curator of transport Musem ) has a book :) "Scotland's Motoring Century" I'll maybe scan some nice period photos if anyone was interested - not one for the ricers/kiddies :)

You don't want me to tell a little bit more about the demise of Upper Clyde Shipbuilders I hope.
My father was steel industry manager, so I can likely tell more horror stories.

One of the good industrial angles by a Scot was Burrell.
He bought up all the merchant ships he could in early 1914 then leased them back to the admiralty. Made millions, which he invested in an odd collection of antiques - a complete floor from a French Chateau for example,including walls and doros. These and much more are on display in the Burrell Collection which he bequeathed to the City of Glasgow for the residents to enjoy at no cost !! Come and see it and visit the Argyll factory which has been refurbished and opened as a musem north of Glsgow ( end of scottish tourism ad :) )

[henk4]

Very interesting, might be nice to open an Edwardian section in the forum. :)

I think your dad lived during interesting times!. Did he supply QE2's steel as well?

[Matra et Alpine]

Very interesting, might be nice to open an Edwardian section in the forum. :)

I think your dad lived during interesting times!. Did he supply QE2's steel as well?
Yes.

Ravenscraig was the largest strip steel mill in Europe at one time.
British Steel shut it down, despite it being cheaper to produce than other sites.
Politics :(

My father started work as a labourer shovelling pig iron and barrowing it into the furnaces ! Went on to become Scottish manager and senior British "time and motion" expert. Flew Hurricane's too. Miss him deeply.

[henk4]

Yes.

senior British "time and motion" expert.


I think you'll have to explain that. :confused:

[Falcon500]

How dare you - Hillman Imp, a great Scottish car :)
:)
The Hillman Imp was kewl...but the Hillman Imp GT was even kewler :cool:
Australia has had 136 car manufactuors (that i know of and not inclusing forigners as ford and chrysler) since the 1880 gilgen to 1986 tiapan twin turbo big block car (never done to well) and there have been plenty after that too and therw where quite a few sports cars amongs them...very hard to get info about though...The first 100 of these car manufactuors happned in the first 50 odd years 1880-1930s most of these companys died after selling a small handfull...pity..
Sad tosay my dad grewup in the more sedate times of the 70s and my grandfather used to live in the bush in a shack he quite literly slapped together...the other side came from Vienna austria...most intresting thing i can think of off the top of my head was one of my great grandfather drinking nights where he got drunk and woke up in the forigen legion.....

[Matra et Alpine]

I think you'll have to explain that. :confused:
They'd be called production, process or quality managers now.
All bout optimising the flow of material and actions to maximise quality, throughput and profit :)

[Matra et Alpine]

The Hillman Imp was kewl...but the Hillman Imp GT was even kewler :cool:
Was that the 'Californian' or Chamois Sport os Sunbeam Stilleto as we know them. ( British car industry was rife with the same car being sold many times over with badge change and slight cosmetic differences )
Here's some pics ....
http://www.dial60.freeserve.co.uk/dsc00017.jpg
http://home.wxs.nl/~imps/Ken/vyl.jpg
Great cars, could take an engine out in 20 minutes - did it often.
Brother rallied one for part season.
Great fun. Unfortunately buried it into the rear of a gritting truck. Broke the back axle of the truck and still managed to climb free. The car WAS the shape of the roll cage mind :)

[henk4]

They'd be called production, process or quality managers now.
All bout optimising the flow of material and actions to maximise quality, throughput and profit :)
A sort of Logistics Manager "avant la lettre"??

[SPHFerrari]

american cars will certainly not ever replace Italian cars. this is simply because it is impractical for an american company to build a supercar b/c no1 would realy buy them. i.e. Chrystler ME- Four Twelve, they may not buy it simply because who would pay an enzo price for a chrystler badged car. american cars do not have a performance reputation like ferrari or lamboghini. and no1 except the biggest car afficionatos would pay six figures for a ford when they can get a ferrari.

[Matra et Alpine]

....who would pay an enzo price for a chrystler badged car. american cars do not have a performance reputation like ferrari or lamboghini. and no1 except the biggest car afficionatos would pay six figures for a ford when they can get a ferrari.
Definately, the ultimate reason for the demise of the Alpine-Renault sportscars. Better performance than the 911 but for a few extra thousand you could have the Porsche badge. Shame really :(

[crisis]

american cars will certainly not ever replace Italian cars. this is simply because it is impractical for an american company to build a supercar b/c no1 would realy buy them. i.e. Chrystler ME- Four Twelve, they may not buy it simply because who would pay an enzo price for a chrystler badged car. american cars do not have a performance reputation like ferrari or lamboghini. and no1 except the biggest car afficionatos would pay six figures for a ford when they can get a ferrari.
Never say never. The US alone is a big enough market and some Americans are super patriotic. Get a rich one and give him a chance to own anything exotic with a "made in the USA" badge on it and you'll sell em.

[kiwitt]

Answer: No

American = Brutish
British = Classic
German = Durable
Italian = Style
Japan = Techno

While the above is a generalisation, so there will be exceptions, but it was a general question wasn't it. :)

[crisis]

Answer: No

American = Brutish
British = Classic
German = Durable
Italian = Style
Japan = Techno

While the above is a generalisation, so there will be exceptions, but it was a general question wasn't it. :)
No. It was a pretty lame question actually. "Would German or American cars ever replace Italian cars?" One might assume it meant , will they ever surpass Italian exotic desirability? Taken literally though,it is quite nonsensical.

[Spastik_Roach]

Depends what factor you are thinking of really. Italian cars don't have the best reputation in the world for build-quality, but certainly out-do Japan in terms of design.

And BTW MikeMclarenF1, did you know Chris Bangle desgined the Fiat Coupe? Proof that putting Italian lines on German cars would just look weird.

[Falcon500]

The aussie hillman imp GT was a lot more flashy then that...think more likethe lotus cortina with its raceing stripes and flash wheels and so on...the engine also copped a few mods gaining twin carbies,exaust and cam work a very good car that never really took off...i had an oppurtunity to buy a hillman imp for $50...everyone saidit was over priced and wouldent suit the bush basher i wanted...

[fpv_gtho]

Answer: No

American = Brutish
British = Classic
German = Durable
Italian = Style
Japan = Techno

While the above is a generalisation, so there will be exceptions, but it was a general question wasn't it. :)


if this is your opinion, which im not trying to attack by the way, then how do you think Australian cars are thought of overseas? based off wheels euro tour of europe and the brief stop in the USA, the british liked the performance but had issues with the build quality, the germans thought it was alright but i think they said it had to much road noise, the italians i think said it rode too soft for a performance car and the french i think had minor issues with the styling but in general thought it was a good attempt

[fpv_gtho]

if this is your opinion, which im not trying to attack by the way, then how do you think Australian cars are thought of overseas? based off wheels euro tour of europe and the brief stop in the USA, the british liked the performance but had issues with the build quality, the germans thought it was alright but i think they said it had to much road noise, the italians i think said it rode too soft for a performance car and the french i think had minor issues with the styling but in general thought it was a good attempt


the americans of course couldnt believe something that good looking, that big and fast and with that quality was wearing the blue oval

[Homem de Gelo]

Sure.

Take away the badge and what is left of an Italian or German car?

[Matra et Alpine]

Take away the badge and what is left of an Italian or German car?
Styling and engineering.

Next ?????

:) Take the badge off an American car and you've got a huge hunk of steel and a soccor mom :)

Take it off a British Leyland car and you end up with a pile of rust - the badge would have been holding it together !!!!!!

[Homem de Gelo]

Styling and engineering.

Exactly, and styling and engineering have no nationality, colour or pride, unless you are a superfanatic car fan, which I'm not.

[Matra et Alpine]

Exactly, and styling and engineering have no nationality, colour or pride, unless you are a superfanatic car fan, which I'm not.
Sorry, but styling is definately to be given to Italian designers.
Look at what Ford has achieved with it's disasters.
What makes it funnier, is we see the abortion they make when modifying the concepts for the American markets.
Ford Fiesta and Escort were reasonable platforms and the US version were ugle, overweight and UNDER-engineered ( suspensino changes especially ).

Peugeot and Renault have set styling standards that others aspire to.

You could take the badges off Fiat, Alfa, Peugeot, Renault designs and tell the nationality.

Hmmm, think I see a competition idea. I'll get some pics and see fi folks can guess nationality.

I think this only works with 'mainstream' as many small designers copy ideas from the large design houses that a large manufacturer wouldnt' dare to do :)

ON engineering, I'd personally give it to the Japanese. But I'm biased by their motorbike output :)

[crisis]

Peugeot and Renault have set styling standards that others aspire to.

You could take the badges off Fiat, Alfa, Peugeot, Renault designs and tell the nationality.

Hmmm, think I see a competition idea. I'll get some pics and see fi folks can guess nationality.

I think this only works with 'mainstream' as many small designers copy ideas from the large design houses that a large manufacturer wouldnt' dare to do :)

ON engineering, I'd personally give it to the Japanese. But I'm biased by their motorbike output :)
You have my respect as far as motoring knowledge gos and you are entitled to your opinion. In my opinion Peugeot, Renault, Fiat have produced the most consistently hideous designs I have seen. They have peers, but I cant name a model from any of them that I like the look of. (Im sure someone could find one though. The French seem to go out of their way to design cars that are so distintive that they outsmart themselves and produce pigs. You are right about taking the badges off though. I could smell one coming a mile away.

[Matra et Alpine]

Peugeot, Renault, Fiat have produced the most consistently hideous designs I have seen. They have peers, but I cant name a model from any of them that I like the look of.
Well that begs the question which models have you seen ?
The Citroen DS was a definitive 60s luxury look. ( OK the BX was an ugly square box )
THe Peugeot 406 coupe. drool.
The hard-top convertables from Renault and Peugeot are v. nice ( for women :) )
Fiat Barchetta ( anothe woman's car tho' ) - Multipla - blech :(

The most likely cause of seeing them all as ugly is the strong memory the owrst of them leave. Multipla, BX, Espace IV all leave a 'bad' taste :(

The mistake most European companies made in trying to enter US , is I think they tried to make them LOOK acceptable for Americans and in that ruined them ( This befell the Alpine GTA and ended up looking ugly from the front )
So what you see is usually changed for what they think YOU want to see.

For Australia I get the perception that certainly the British manufacturesr dumped their worst selling models there to use up the steel and bits they'd manufactured :)

MGB were the worst example, by the time they increased the ride height and added hidous rubber bumbers to comply with US law the car was plain UGLY and handled like a pig. Most folks don't actually know how well a 'B can handle as they've only been exposed to those abominations.

[Falcon500]

Yeah well guess the nationality :p
Im fully with crisis on this one french cars in general are hidious...though i will admit i like some of them little fiats 125s mainly...tiny little bucket with a 1600 DOHC donk...the one i saw had dual webbers and a fair bit of other work on it moved very easily :)
But i still stand by the fact that most euro cars are either boring as bat shit or just plain ugly....

[fpv_gtho]

Im fully with crisis on this one french cars in general are hidious...


Well i guess you could say theres only 1 reason why Peugeot's get the nickname "Pug" then......

[Matra et Alpine]

Im fully with crisis on this one french cars in general are hidious...though i will admit i like some of them little fiats 125s mainly...

Well it STILL begs the question which models have you seen ?

And you'll start another European war if you call Fiat's French :)

Right now I think some French cars are going through an 'ugly front end' phase :) Especially Renault is trying to come up with a 'look' and it doesn't work on all models. The new Espace IS hideous ( and yet the previous was nice - could be my Matra bias :) )

When generalising a nations cars, are we also generalising across time ?
French cars in the 50s were very utilitarian - built to do a job and that carried over into the 60s. 2CV, R4 to name 2.
But they also produve the DS series which are still futuristic looking and ground-breaking - steerable front lights resurrected this year and claimed as NEW :)

The one thing I might add is that to me Australian designed cars haven't changed. THey still have that muscle car look. Now sometimes I'll admit to liking it but not all the time and all cars.

In all of this, I'm not including the low volume, speciliast and concept cars as they are more to do with individuals !!

Coming back to my first question.
An old trick at work to make sure we've considered all the possibilities is to come up with 3 good things about a solution before the negative. It ensures engineers consider all the options. Maybe to those who are polarised on car design should answer that challenge and name 3 good looks from each manufacturer. It'll help the balance. I certainly hadn't known about small manfuctuers in OZ until another post had made me go research it

[henk4]

After the DS Citroen came up with the SM, the CX and the XM, designed mostly in house with the help of some italians. The boxy BX was designed by Gandini. The Peugeot factory has produced very nice coupe and cabrio's, (404,504) designed by Pininfarina, as were most of their utilitarian sedan's.

I like it when people from down under comment on French designs, of which they probably have seen very little. To be honest I would not dare to comment on Australian cars, but I don't have an impression that these would stand out in the crowd, but are basically derivatives of ford and GM styling examples seen anywhere in the world.

[crisis]

I like it when people from down under comment on French designs, of which they probably have seen very little. To be honest I would not dare to comment on Australian cars, but I don't have an impression that these would stand out in the crowd, but are basically derivatives of ford and GM styling examples seen anywhere in the world.

i dare say we have seen more French cars down under , than you have seen Australian cars. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and I would imagine our tastes are in some way influenced by our environment. Ipso Facto we are most likely conditioned as to what we percieve to be attractive or normal looking automobiles. It is also one of the reasons I find the "US cars suck" or "Italian cars are better than whatever else" to be somewhat irritatingly dim conversations. You are , however, completely qualified to comment on Australian designs. Either you like them or you dont, and in the area of appearance there is no right or wrong.

[henk4]

You are , however, completely qualified to comment on Australian designs. Either you like them or you dont, and in the area of appearance there is no right or wrong.

Thank you, but my problem is that when I think of Australian cars I cannot even make a mental picture of a single one of them. I think the only one I've seen and do remember is the Elfin Can-Am racer (5 litre only) that was run by Porsche desginer Harm Lagaay for a while in the classic supersport series. I also vaguely remember a Holden touring car shown at Silverstone 5 or 6 years ago, but that struck me as completely similar to the Opel Omega.

[fpv_gtho]

i think that wouldve been Peter Brock's 1984 VK, i think it was that one that he only just recently got back from a british owner or something like that. either way it had the Marlboro livery and of course his #05

[Egg Nog]

i think that wouldve been Peter Brock's 1984 VK, i think it was that one that he only just recently got back from a british owner or something like that. either way it had the Marlboro livery and of course his #05

Weird... that's my girlfriend's Dad's name :)

Sorry...completely off topic... back to cars :D

[fpv_gtho]

well im sure the Peter Brock you know hasnt won bathurst 10 times (bathurst 1000 9 times and bathurst 24hr once) in Torana's, Commodores and a Monaro

[Egg Nog]

well im sure the Peter Brock you know hasnt won bathurst 10 times (bathurst 1000 9 times and bathurst 24hr once) in Torana's, Commodores and a Monaro

I think he's a stock analyst or something ;)

[henk4]

well, this was the car anyway. (image credits:pieter melissen)

[fpv_gtho]

well its either the 1999 HSV VT2 GTS sedan or the 1997 HSV VT Sedan, the difference being the VT had a 220kw 5.7L stroker Holden motor and the VT2 had the 300kw C4B Callaway enhanced LS-6 Chev motor. Either way its the model the Monaro holds most of its stylign cues to and is highly based off the Opel Omega i believe

[henk4]

well its either the 1999 HSV VT2 GTS sedan or the 1997 HSV VT Sedan, the difference being the VT had a 220kw 5.7L stroker Holden motor and the VT2 had the 300kw C4B Callaway enhanced LS-6 Chev motor. Either way its the model the Monaro holds most of its stylign cues to and is highly based off the Opel Omega i believe

I think the pic was taken before 1999 so it's probably a VT. I remember I took the picture because I had never seen one before.

[fpv_gtho]

yeah, 1999 would just be scraping in with you seeing them 5-6 years ago as well so 1997 is the safer bet for the car to be imported overseas

[Homem de Gelo]

Nah, I don't know.
I just don't care a bout nationality anymore. I mean, I do care a bit, but not as I used to. Nowaday's, I'm not that interested in cars anymore, but I'm ten times more interested in F1.

[taz_rocks_miami]

I agree with Zerk, German, American and Italian cars have different attitudes. Besides, Italian cars have a certian zest or soul about them that can be imitated but never fully copied.

Peace.

[Olli]

The Germans cars are more luxury cars and the Americans are bricks with big as engines but the Italian cars are light with a big engine still :eek: :eek: , I don't think the Italians will be replaced to soon

[dd2005]

It's possible, with American makes such as Dodge and Ford and German cars like Mercedez-Benz, Italian cars aren't much really, the americans make cars as good as anyone, except the Japanese, of course.


Because the Japanese have all the Best Cars

Yours Truly
dd2005 :)

[crisis]

It's possible, with American makes such as Dodge and Ford and German cars like Mercedez-Benz, Italian cars aren't much really, the americans make cars as good as anyone, except the Japanese, of course.



Yours Truly
dd2005 :)
Auspicious entry.

[092326001]

i think german cars might be able to(not likely though)
but american cars will never

[targa]

wouldnt the real question be: will Italian or American cars ever replace German cars?

[Fabio Ferrari]

Never, American and German automobiles, are sure well engineered and are built well. But theres is no chance of them replacing Italian automobiles, they are not allike. Italian automobiles are all about styling and speed. To me there is just no carpasison. But just to let you know I am a bit biased. ;)

[6'bore]

Never, American and German automobiles, are sure well engineered and are built well. But theres is no chance of them replacing Italian automobiles, they are not allike. Italian automobiles are all about styling and speed. To me there is just no carpasison. But just to let you know I am a bit biased. ;)

lol, american cars engineered well, lol @ that

[Coventrysucks]

Italian automobiles are all about styling and speed.

Don't forget the legendary appaling build quality.

I think every single Alfa, Fiat and Lancia built in the '80s has rusted into oblivion.

They managed to built worse cars than British Leyland, which is quite an achievement.

[Fabio Ferrari]

Don't forget the legendary appaling build quality.

I think every single Alfa, Fiat and Lancia built in the '80s has rusted into oblivion.

They managed to built worse cars than British Leyland, which is quite an achievement.

Not so much Alfa but yes Lancia and Fiat untill about 1995, built some very poor quality automobiles, although in the past few year they have improved quite a bit.

[QuattroMan]

i hope chrysler doesn't take over Lambo again, Ferarri and Maserati is owned by Fiat, and so is Lancia. and Pagani uses a Mercedes engine. i don't think that Italian cars will be "replaced", though American and German cars are good competitors for italian cars.


lambo is with Audi baby they are not going back...

[QuattroMan]

Made me think of a modifation to an old joke .....
heaven is:
French cook
British police
German mechanic
Scottish lover
Italian/German/French/British sportscars
and the Swiss run everything

hell is:
British cook
German police
French mechanic
Swiss lover
American sportcars
and the Italians run everything


hey i knew you like that... :D


http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6807

[Niko_Fx]

hey i knew you like that... :D


http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6807

Matra actually posted that like 6 months before you did....

[dave_fonz_164]

never in a million years, with build quality and reliablity getting better and better on italian cars, they are becoming extremely competitive cars.

the new f430 is prolly the best thing on the planet!

[Fabio Ferrari]

never in a million years, with build quality and reliablity getting better and better on italian cars, they are becoming extremely competitive cars.

the new f430 is prolly the best thing on the planet!

I agree mate.

[Fleet 500]

lol, american cars engineered well, lol @ that
Lol. Yeah, just keep thinking that while I drive my Cadillacs which last 35+ years!
Hopefully, the secret won't be revealed about the durability of many '60s/early '70s American cars- otherwise they would be more in demand and I wouldn't be able to afford to buy them anymore. :)

[Koenigsegg_CC]

Nothing that the germans or the yanks oculd make would have as much of an exotic feel to it IMO

[Matra et Alpine]

Lol. Yeah, just keep thinking that while I drive my Cadillacs which last 35+ years!
I am nw rallying in a Mini older than that :)
COMPETITIVE driving, pushing on hard and taking the punishment well !!

Given that mate has an Austin 7 that is 50 years OLD then 35 is a mere youngster :) "Surviving" isn't always a good thing :)

[Fleet 500]

Nothing that the germans or the yanks oculd make would have as much of an exotic feel to it IMO
Well, I guess those '71 Hemicudas that are selling for $1 million aren't very exotic? :D

BTW, what is an "exotic" feel?

[Fleet 500]

I am nw rallying in a Mini older than that :)
COMPETITIVE driving, pushing on hard and taking the punishment well !!

Given that mate has an Austin 7 that is 50 years OLD then 35 is a mere youngster :) "Surviving" isn't always a good thing :)
I've seen 50 year old Cadillacs, Buicks, Pontiacs at car shows in original and near-original condition. Your Austin is not the only car around that is 50 (or more) years old.
Besides, 35-year-old cars like Cadillacs, Chevys, Olds, Plymouths should only (according to many European car fans) last 5 years before they fall apart. (Another widespread myth.)

[targa]

Your Austin is not the only car around that is 50 (or more) years old.when did the first P1800 come out? those little buggers last forever

[henk4]

I am nw rallying in a Mini older than that :)
COMPETITIVE driving, pushing on hard and taking the punishment well !!


You see? The quality of the pushrod design allows you to do that. :D

[Fleet 500]

when did the first P1800 come out? those little buggers last forever
I have no idea.

[henk4]

I have no idea.

Can you use this post also as your standard answer in many other threads? :D

[Manik]

there are some cars like the porsche carrera gt, mercedes SLR , chrysler me4-12 ,etc. which made me think if these & newer cars would take over italian cars some day.

IMO Germany and Italy are very close. It seems whenever American cars come out or German cars Italy has something to compete with them. You can't really "replace" Italian cars, most of the big exotic car manufactorers make fiarly equal cars. :D

[Fleet 500]

Can you use this post also as your standard answer in many other threads? :D
I've never even heard of a P1800!
(BTW, I knew someone would make a comment like yours. So, I'm not surprised at all. Another example of a person who's supposed to be "open-minded!) :D

[dave_fonz_164]

nobody will ever replace anybody.there is a strong revival in national identity. americans have rediscovered their roots with the 300c and new mustang and the japs are pumping out some new exciting models.

each country specializes in what they do best while trying to improve on weaker areas.having said that, italian cars have a unique flair about them that cant be duplicated.

[Matra et Alpine]

That's like asking will an Andy Warhol ever replace a Michaelangelo or Botticelli or Hurst.

Each brought soemthign at the time and differnet things at earlier and later times too.

Each can and will be great at sometime - "15 minutes of fame" , even the Prisu some day :)

[targa]

I've never even heard of a P1800!
(BTW, I knew someone would make a comment like yours. So, I'm not surprised at all. Another example of a person who's supposed to be "open-minded!) :DVolvo P1800, there are a few around that have tacked on over two million miles

http://hem.passagen.se/nilsbe/nils/bilder/p1800s.jpg

[FerrariMad]

no way italian cars rock! :eek:

[clutch-monkey]

no way italian cars rock! :eek:
you're right. Fiats are awesome :rolleyes:

[Tifoso Scuderia]

come on Fiat is the only entry level car manufacturer in Italy, it produces cheap cars. With your same reasoning clutch-monkey, no British cars are cool because there is Ford.

I am of the opinion and there are many out there that in terms of super cars Italy is the best producer, it may not be the best in the saloon sgement but the super cars which are most glamorous, beautiful, best performance and that noise the engine makes makes Italy the number one supercar producer for me. Do not forget what marques have came out of Italy: Ferrari, Lamborghini, Maserati, and others over the years produced stunning super cars such as Alfa Romeo and Lancia

For me a good car to go around during the week, to work etc, would definetly be a German saloon (BMW or Mercedes or Audi) due to their solid build, safety, quality and comfort, but after having various rides in a number of Ferraris and Maseratis, I would (if there is the cash :))definetly try to buy an Italian supercar to have fun in the weekends !!!!!!

in my opinion the best car manufactures are in Italy and Germany, but they cannot be compared, most of the German cars are built for a difficult purpose than the Italians are.

Italians show a degree of flair in nearly everything they do, food, clothes,the way they live, architecture, cars, and any design, whilst the Germans are renowned for stability in all they do, so it depends what you are after really :)

[dave_fonz_164]

come on Fiat is the only entry level car manufacturer in Italy, it produces cheap cars. With your same reasoning clutch-monkey, no British cars are cool because there is Ford.

I am of the opinion and there are many out there that in terms of super cars Italy is the best producer, it may not be the best in the saloon sgement but the super cars which are most glamorous, beautiful, best performance and that noise the engine makes makes Italy the number one supercar producer for me. Do not forget what marques have came out of Italy: Ferrari, Lamborghini, Maserati, and others over the years produced stunning super cars such as Alfa Romeo and Lancia

For me a good car to go around during the week, to work etc, would definetly be a German saloon (BMW or Mercedes or Audi) due to their solid build, safety, quality and comfort, but after having various rides in a number of Ferraris and Maseratis, I would (if there is the cash :))definetly try to buy an Italian supercar to have fun in the weekends !!!!!!

in my opinion the best car manufactures are in Italy and Germany, but they cannot be compared, most of the German cars are built for a difficult purpose than the Italians are.

Italians show a degree of flair in nearly everything they do, food, clothes,the way they live, architecture, cars, and any design, whilst the Germans are renowned for stability in all they do, so it depends what you are after really :)


very well said, each offer something different.however with italian mid segment cars are getting better and better.

i drive an alfa everyday, great car and pretty dependable.

[Tifoso Scuderia]

yes exactly dave_fonz_164, Alfa are definetly improving- and what about the Maserati Quattroporte !!!?? its much better than any MBW or Mercedes saloon in my opinion (its very very beautiful, sporty, elegant but at the same time very practical and very luxurious).

But as I said, although Alfa, Maserati and and to a certan extent lancia are improving tremendously and penetrating the saloon market slowly, it is only a question of specialistation. Italians specialise in the super sports cars and they have more experince than any one else when it comes to handling, stytling, etc, and Germans specialsie on the saloon market. This does not mean that German sports cars or Italian saloons are not good, far from it, both of them are good, it s just that it is not their "forte" as we say in Italy :)


btw....the new Alfa 159 is going to be a true genuine contender to the BMW and other German cars, last time I read an article which said that its chassis rigidity is of such a high level that no saloon car in the world can match it, except the VW Phaeton, which exceeds it slightly.


Moreover its engines are going to be its usual strong point :).......and then there is that Alfa Brera coming out soon :) Alfa is definetly on the right track- just look at this article on the 159:

http://www.autoindex.org/news.plt?no=1091#

It even quotes the torsional rigidity of the bodyshell to be the best in its class,

"The result is the excellent torsional rigidity of the bodyshell, the best in its segment: over 180,000 daNm/rad."

[clutch-monkey]

come on Fiat is the only entry level car manufacturer in Italy, it produces cheap cars. With your same reasoning clutch-monkey, no British cars are cool because there is Ford.

I am of the opinion and there are many out there that in terms of super cars Italy is the best producer, it may not be the best in the saloon sgement but the super cars which are most glamorous, beautiful, best performance and that noise the engine makes makes Italy the number one supercar producer for me. Do not forget what marques have came out of Italy: Ferrari, Lamborghini, Maserati, and others over the years produced stunning super cars such as Alfa Romeo and Lancia

For me a good car to go around during the week, to work etc, would definetly be a German saloon (BMW or Mercedes or Audi) due to their solid build, safety, quality and comfort, but after having various rides in a number of Ferraris and Maseratis, I would (if there is the cash :))definetly try to buy an Italian supercar to have fun in the weekends !!!!!!

in my opinion the best car manufactures are in Italy and Germany, but they cannot be compared, most of the German cars are built for a difficult purpose than the Italians are.

Italians show a degree of flair in nearly everything they do, food, clothes,the way they live, architecture, cars, and any design, whilst the Germans are renowned for stability in all they do, so it depends what you are after really :)
you clearly missed my point. my post was a response to ferarri-mads all sweeping statement that "all italian cars rock"

[kennyknoxville]

america will replace both italian AND german automobiles once ferrari and bmw begin developing hovercrafts.

[FITZY]

Would German or American cars ever replace Italian cars?

in a word NO