16 yo and fast cars what do you think

[rev440]

Whats your opinon on 16 year olds having fast cars? It seems like theres always a kid who wrecked there dads vette should there be a limit on horsepower for a 16 year old? I have an 04 Mach1 with 325 horse btw

[my porsche]

no they just need to be taught how to drive well and responsibly before daddy hands them the keys to his car

[PerfAdv]

Defintely a power limit but imposed by parent/guardian. I learned how to drive in a 70s VW Bug. That thing probably had no more than 50 horsepower, so I could push it as hard as I wanted without much worry. Start pushing even a moderately powerful car and it's no surprise so many teens die in car crashes. It's the same concept as; you've got to learn to walk before you can run.

[Quiggs]

I'd like to see a graduated license system based on power/weight ratios and overall size. Just because you can control the Chevy Cavalier during your driver's test doesn't mean you should be allowed to drive a GTO or Corvette. Or a Suburban, for that matter.

[my porsche]

i think everyone should quit blaming the cars and take a look at the parents, if the parent gives the kid a 400hp corvette, with no previous experience, then its just plain bad parenting, but if the parent takes the kid to a driving school and spends many hours teaching the kid the limits of the car and how to handle it and what not, i think if the kid has proven themself responsible and the parent trusts them then theres no problem, because the kid has put so much effort into it and the last think they want to happen is see all of their hard work, their parents work, monetary sacrifice, and parental trust go down the drain. so really its up to the parents, they can be a bad parent by saying "hey, you turned 16, heres a new corvette." or be good parents by saying "here, i got you this car, but you can't drive it without me in it until you prove yourself responsible and able to handle a high-performance machine.

[d-quik]

i think everyone should quit blaming the cars and take a look at the parents,or the

KID!

[SupraMan22]

I have a Toyota Supra, and also have an optional Toyota X-Runner i could drive. The X-Runners my bros but i have driven it. I get my license in 2 months, so i have plenty of time to drive, ive driven the supra for a year now though, and pretty well know how to control it. I do think it is stupid to hand a kid a high horse power car. Especially kids with no common sense, like kids who think they are invinsible because they have a hot ass car. They hard assly pull up to a light with something rediculious like a mini van next to them, and end up totaling thier rides. I've seen people and known people do it. Because thats how people are. So, yes i think there should be some kind of limit on hp in teen aged cars. It would cut down on street racing thats for sure. But i guess i really have no room to talk, a 230hp supra, and i am wanting to mod it some. But like i said im a smart driver. Guess we will see how everything goes in a couple months though. :cool:

[blackcat77]

Mixed feelings. A powerful car might tempt a younger driver to attempt things that are beyond his ability. But then again, you can kill youself with stupidity just as easily with a VW as a Veyron.

It might be a good idea to provide these kids with an outlet for their competitive desires. Maybe mom and dad could join SCCA and take Junior along to compete in autocross or maybe even get him started in track events. If he has a legitimate place to compete, he'll be less likely to race on the street.

But just saying that kids can only have x horsepower is a false solution.

[F1_Master]

Sure, why not. As long as they can control it, and understand its limits.

I learned to drive pretty good through fear. My dad's old 944 Turbo S scared the crap out of me when I drove it. I put her in 1st, give her some gas, and she's off.

Few times I did it, she really flew off the "line."

I think its wrong though to categorize every young teen with a high powered car as a bad driver. I knew my Acura's limits well before modification began, though I never once got on the limit itself. Autocross did push it, but not as hard as it could have been. Actually, I probably could have gotten better times had I pushed her harder, but that's all said and done with.

Today with the 3000GT and M3, I never push 'em. The 3000GT's old, and the M3 is only about 3 years off a decade.
But like I said, as long as they can control it, understand its limits, and play it safe, they're ok.

[lightweight]

Maybe raise the age for acquiring the licence? 16 seems too young to me.

[Rockefella]

Make the driving age 17 or 18, and require 10 hours of performance driving school to teens that have cars w/ power=>weight ratios better than a defined limit.

[lightweight]

I think its wrong though to categorize every young teen with a high powered car as a bad driver.

You are right on that. But the law is the same for everybody. You can't make custom laws for bad drivers.

It would be great if only good drivers would drive powerful cars. But, in reality it's very difficult to implement it.

So, we stick to the laws we have, even if they have flaws, because we can't create better ones.

[johnnynumfiv]

I started driving with my truck( 2wd, 230hp, 300 ft-lbs) and have driven it since, I know the capabilities of it and it's limits so I don't go over them(sometimes ;) ) I think I might wait before going past the performance of my race car, I have yet to reach it's max in performance.

[rev440]

Yeah theres some kids with fast cars around here. Ones got a viper I have a pretty fast mustang and theres always some one else I dont know about. I think bikes are to fast for todays youth also. There cheaper thena fast car i mean where can you pick up a 9 sec car for under 11 grand? Ive wanted a R1 but there just to fast they will beat almost any car on the road. I saw this young kid with a brand new C6 it was black. He musta had some brains he brought it to the track and ran it. I think if they have a drag or road course close to there house and they get a ticket in a fast car they should get a free ticket to the track. Its more fun to go and race some one on a track then it is to race them on the street because you see your lap time or 1/4 mile time and you try to improve your corneing, launch, or shifting Im not saying fast cars should not be aloud just maybe a defensive driving class should be taken for a kid under 18 with a 300hp+ car.

[PerfAdv]

Make the driving age 17 or 18, and require 10 hours of performance driving school to teens that have cars w/ power=>weight ratios better than a defined limit.
This will force the parking-lot-donut-crowd into hopped-up minivans.:D

You're suggestion does have some merit. On the road however, it's competitive nature that prevails. Doesn't matter what is being driven, it's being driven dangerously is the problem.

Almost everyone in my area speeds, at dangerous speeds. When inexperienced drivers are thrown into to the mix they lose. I've noticed some younger drivers get into trouble just keeping pace with traffic.

[F1_Master]

You are right on that. But the law is the same for everybody. You can't make custom laws for bad drivers.

It would be great if only good drivers would drive powerful cars. But, in reality it's very difficult to implement it.

So, we stick to the laws we have, even if they have flaws, because we can't create better ones.
True, but good driver's are the ones who can manage to lower their insurance thus allowing them more money to make payments on said car. ;)

[jorismo]

Here in the Netherlands I think we have such kind of rule for motorcycles. I think the rule is that the first 5 year after getting a motorcycle driving license you aren't allowed to drive a bike with more than 75 horsepower. Not sure though...

[d-quik]

Make the driving age 17 or 18.just because some 16 year olds are stupid all 16 year old drivers have to suffer

good job hitler

[jorismo]

good job hitler

What has he to do with this??

[ScionDriver]

My first car at 17 was a Scion xB. It is slow as hell. But I think its good to have something like that for awhile, just to learn in and gain overall driving expirence. But either way it wouldn't matter because if someone handed me the keys to a Vette tomorrow I still wouldn't know how to handle the power.

I like the idea of a madatory driving school thing.

[F1_Master]

What has he to do with this??
"Some Jews may be bad, but not all have to suffer for 1"
"Some kids may be bad, but not all have to suffer for 1"
Bad way of translating it...:o

[Rockefella]

just because some 16 year olds are stupid all 16 year old drivers have to suffer

good job hitler
I got my license at 17, so I suppose I suffered? I just find it wrong for some states to give licenses at 16, while others allow it at 17 or even 18. (I know NY is quite strict w/ licensing)

I'm not saying 16 year olds are stupid, but one extra year of experience couldn't hurt.

[Spastik_Roach]

I wanna get my license at 15 here (Its Ridiculous I know but meh) but I think mum wants me till wait till 16. I'd fully support a change in laws because so many 15 year olds get alot of money from ma and pa and go out and buy a Mitsubishi VR4 or a WRX er sumfin and be totally effin stupid. Next year i'm buying a car and its not gunna be something more powerful than say maybe a Ford Escort? I just find it unnessecerary for teenagers to have a fast or high performance car, because they'll often to be too busy with school to enjoy it often. Ofcourse with me having a race track in town (and weekends) that'll be a different case :) But I'm not buying a high powered car, its too high maintenence and what for? To crash it?

Pretty much every 15 year old Mr Vin Diesel wannabe whos gone and gotten some rice rocket has crashed it round here.

[Vindesh17]

I had my car a few months before I got my licence and everytime I drove it my dad was right there with me. When I did get my licence I went to the BMW Advanced Driver Training thing in Montreal so I could learn car control. I believe that if I didnt do driver training I would do some really stupid things on the street, btw they let you push your car as hard as you want to in driver training. The thing about 16 year olds not being able to handle powerful cars is bullshit imo, I was 15 years and 7 months old when I got my car and 16 when I got my licence. It just depends on if they are mature enough not to do anything stupid and a lot of people other than teenagers aren't mature enough handle cars they have.

[NuclearCrap]

I got my license at 17, so I suppose I suffered? I just find it wrong for some states to give licenses at 16, while others allow it at 17 or even 18. (I know NY is quite strict w/ licensing)

I'm not saying 16 year olds are stupid, but one extra year of experience couldn't hurt.

I'm getting a permit when I get 15 and a half, and the state requires at least 6 months of experience with an adult who's 25 or over in driving before before they can test me on the roads, that's gonna work.

[Niko_Fx]

Not only 16 year olders but anyone who's not mature enough shouldn't be getting a fast car. I get to see idiots driving around fast cars in this town every day as if they were driving on a track... and I'm talking about guys in their 20s and 30s.

[Rockefella]

I think the common problem with driving wrecklessly has to do with teens not given the opportunity to push their car's limits in a safe and controlled manner. I would bet that teens would drive more responsibly if they/we had 3-6 hours at a racetrack or driving course w/ the gas pedal to the floor.

I bet once that limit of the car's ability is reached, teens wouldn't strive for more in the streets, or at least to a much lesser extent.

[NSXType-R]

I'm doing driver's ed as soon as I can get my hands on it but I know that I'll try my best to be a responsible driver. I'm only 15 but the legal driving age is 18 here although at my school you can learn when you're 16. My dad will give me his 93 Civic Si manual when I will be learning to drive. I think that it's a great beginner's car until I really know how to drive.

I don't think that it is strict enough in my state, NY. We have some really bad drivers with serious road rage here. Some are just way too slow and some are just way too quick. The slow ones bog up traffic while the fast ones are just too damn reckless. I think that it should be set up to something similar to Germany's. I'm not talking about the autobahns, but I think they have a system where you need to take a driving test every couple of years and if they fail their license is revoked. I think it's a great way to refresh their memories on driving. Racing school won't hurt either.

[Clique]

I am about to learn in a battered old car... After one years experience my mum has promised to buy me a Golf as she cant afford to pay for the car and the insurance at the moment... How do these people get insured on these performance cars... I got quoted £3500 full comp. for a 1.6 Golf... I cant even imagine how much it would cost to insure a Vette for a 16 year old...

[h00t_h00t]

How much is the golf worth? With one years experience and pass plus that should be well under £1000.

[Matra et Alpine]

In the UK guys get a kit car.
Get the performance to beat the fastest Hondas and Fords and Astras out there and insure it for £200-£300 :D

[h00t_h00t]

Well not really, I read an article in a magazine about a 17 year old wanting to insure a 1.3 Westfield, and nobody but one insurance company would give him a vague quote, and that was £2500 with a 4,500 mileage limit. This is asuming the car wasn't bike engined (this wasn't specified in the letter).

[Matra et Alpine]

Insure via club and pick the right kit car :D

Westfields are mainly factory built and mainstream. So very few are considered "kits" byt the insurance companies.

Go check out Luego !!! or Quantum :D

Of course if you learn about the cars you can be even smarter and put in a smaller engine or diesel and then drop in larger engines as the NCB kicks in. Mates son had a Ferraday upgrade in his Quantum after 18 months :D


EDIT: Hmmm, forgot about LOCATION !! Scotland is generally seen as a MUCH lower risk than crime-ridden England-shire :D

[my porsche]

if i got a bike it would be a triumph speed triple or triumph thruxton 900 :D

[Rockefella]

We have some really bad drivers with serious road rage here.
My state's worse. ;)

[F1_Master]

I got my license at 17, so I suppose I suffered? I just find it wrong for some states to give licenses at 16, while others allow it at 17 or even 18. (I know NY is quite strict w/ licensing)

I'm not saying 16 year olds are stupid, but one extra year of experience couldn't hurt.
Ok, so just because you got yours at 17, you think all other drivers should get it at 17?

BTW, we all know for a fact 90% of those drivers waiting an extra yea won't be gaining too much experience or practicing. They'll be doing what they've done before.

[Spastik_Roach]

You get all these teen hoons here that wanna do burnouts on the street or something. Its stupid, but I think the best thing would be for the council to open up some big huge concrete place (Some car park perhaps) For the hoons to do their thing there. It would cost hardly anything and solve a huge problem.

[SupraMan22]

I agree. But there is something different about a responsible fast driver, and a wreckless fast driver. My dad does burn outs down out road sometime in our supra. My brother also. And neither one have been in a wreck for a long time. My brother had a 1992 Toyota Celica GTS, when he was 16. It was quick and he did fine. The he bought a 2004 Toyota Celica GTS, did fine. Now he is 20 and has a Toyota X-Runner, and he hasnt been in any trouble yet. No wrecks or anything, not even dings. He is a good driver, but he drives faster than some people. But he isn't reckless. I think to solve this driving tests should be stricter, longer, and more complicated. I took the driving test with my DE teacher, and it was a cake walk. Not the test exactly, but for my last hour of driving he took me on the course. I dunno though, some things seem more loical than others. But everything could make a difference. Plus, you are quite a idiodic parent if you buy your child a very fast car as a first. I have a 1994 Chevy Blazer, and payed almost nothing for it. 1300, and it is very nice. If parents would look after thier kids more, things would be different, everywhere.

[johnnynumfiv]

You get all these teen hoons here that wanna do burnouts on the street or something. Its stupid, but I think the best thing would be for the council to open up some big huge concrete place (Some car park perhaps) For the hoons to do their thing there. It would cost hardly anything and solve a huge problem.

Yea, it's all good until someone gets hurt, then it closes.

[rev440]

For people who like to do burn outs and drive fast the drag track is the best. You get to light the tires up every run and you still get to run agaisnt your buddies.

[aNOBLEman]

I'm getting a permit when I get 15 and a half, and the state requires at least 6 months of experience with an adult who's 25 or over in driving before before they can test me on the roads, that's gonna work.

Yea I got my permit a month after I turned 15 and I drove all the time and gained vast experience in abstract situations where if I did somthing wrong my parents would tell me what to do next time which helped me to learn faster and to learn more.

[my porsche]

I agree. But there is something different about a responsible fast driver, and a wreckless fast driver.
yeah like my dad, who used to be a racing driver and had many high performance cars, HE is an example of a responsible fast driver

[ZeTurbo]

i think everyone should quit blaming the cars and take a look at the parents, if the parent gives the kid a 400hp corvette, with no previous experience, then its just plain bad parenting, but if the parent takes the kid to a driving school and spends many hours teaching the kid the limits of the car and how to handle it and what not, i think if the kid has proven themself responsible and the parent trusts them then theres no problem, because the kid has put so much effort into it and the last think they want to happen is see all of their hard work, their parents work, monetary sacrifice, and parental trust go down the drain. so really its up to the parents, they can be a bad parent by saying "hey, you turned 16, heres a new corvette." or be good parents by saying "here, i got you this car, but you can't drive it without me in it until you prove yourself responsible and able to handle a high-performance machine.
arent you the one who says he is getting a 911 as a first car?

[my porsche]

yes...

[Spastik_Roach]

To be honest I just think a 911 is way overkill for a first car. You don't need a 911 to have fun. And really, with so much school coming up, when are you gunna have the time to do anything other than show off and pick up materialistic bitches in it? Betcha it'll get keyed aswell.

[my porsche]

To be honest I just think a 911 is way overkill for a first car.
its really not, ~180hp in a 2500 is quick but not fast


You don't need a 911 to have fun.
yes you do :D :p


And really, with so much school coming up, when are you gunna have the time to do anything other than show off and pick up materialistic bitches in it? Betcha it'll get keyed aswell
weekends ;) and i dont hang out with the materialistic bitches

[Rockefella]

its really not, ~180hp in a 2500 is quick but not fast Perhaps, but with the engine mounted behind the rear axle it isn't necessarily easy to drive.

and i dont hang out with the materialistic bitches
95% of bitches are materialistic, even if they don't show it.

[F1_Master]

To be honest I just think a 911 is way overkill for a first car. You don't need a 911 to have fun. And really, with so much school coming up, when are you gunna have the time to do anything other than show off and pick up materialistic bitches in it? Betcha it'll get keyed aswell.
I agree. That is overkill. And no doubt some punk will try to do more than key it.

[Exoticz]

Let's look at this way. Do the parents realize that by giving a teen a high performance car at the age of 16 is the equivalent of strapping them to a rocket with no instruction manual and/or controls?

Secondly, the minute child does something reckless and injures someone else, the parents can and will be held liable.

I know this because I did just that thing at the tender age of 17 and damn near cost my parents their house.

I wholeheartedly agree with putting a teen through a defensive driving/high performance driving course before turning them loose on the streets.

As a parent of a 7 year old boy, I know that even if I can't afford it, I will be putting my child into a performance/defensive driving course before he gets his license.

He has already expressed in interest in karting...How lucky is that? A good way to learn how to drive at a very young age and do it inexpensively.

Ok...enough rambling. But, somone hit it on the head earlier in this forum topic about separate classes of licenses. If there is a lawmaker here, PLEASE make a separate class for damned SUV drivers. They have got the be the worst, ill-trained, rudest SOB's on the road.

I am done with my ranting.

[my porsche]

Perhaps, but with the engine mounted behind the rear axle it isn't necessarily easy to drive.

95% of bitches are materialistic, even if they don't show it.
thats mostly a myth, my dad got the car when he was a junior in college and he said he never had any problems with it (this is BEFORE his experience with hi-per cars) and hes told me basically just take it easy in the corners on the street and ill do fine


yeah maybe about the bitches... :p

[my porsche]

I am done with my ranting.
now that your done, welcome to UCP :p

[F1_Master]

thats mostly a myth, my dad got the car when he was a junior in college and he said he never had any problems with it (this is BEFORE his experience with hi-per cars) and hes told me basically just take it easy in the corners on the street and ill do fine


yeah maybe about the bitches... :p
Well, this is a completely different time man. Anyone in high school can do something to a car out of jealousy. Stupid I know, but that's how those morons are.

[rev440]

10 to 1 odds youll loose it and it will get keyed mp

[my porsche]

10 to 1 odds youll loose it and it will get keyed mp
ill lose what?

ok ill take those odds, you guys dont know my school, no cars get keyed, theres like 3 people who would key a car and thay are all over at starbucks toking it up

people drive new corvettes and escalades with no problems, its not a typical high school?

[Rockefella]

thats mostly a myth, my dad got the car when he was a junior in college and he said he never had any problems with it (this is BEFORE his experience with hi-per cars) and hes told me basically just take it easy in the corners on the street and ill do fine


yeah maybe about the bitches... :p
Myth my ass, taking that at speeds with it's heavy arse is as dangerous as Heroine. :D (Let alone in bad conditions)

[my porsche]

who said i would take it at speed? haha :p

heroine is dangerous?!?! :eek: oh shit

[Rockefella]

who said i would take it at speed? haha :p

heroine is dangerous?!?! :eek: oh shit
You'll want to, trust me. :)

I mess around w/ my friends during lunch at stoplights or stopsigns, but only for like 30-40 feet, then get off the gas. The petrolhead in you will scream for it eventually.

[F1_Master]

ill lose what?

ok ill take those odds, you guys dont know my school, no cars get keyed, theres like 3 people who would key a car and thay are all over at starbucks toking it up

people drive new corvettes and escalades with no problems, its not a typical high school?


Seems like this subject could apply to some of the kids at your school if they're driving C6 Corvettes and Escalades. When I was in high school, the kids were driving typical Ford trucks and cars.
When I graduated, the only Corvette we had was my bud, Ryan's new C6 Corvette for his 18th birthday.

[d-quik]

one extra year of experience......of life?

an extra year of experience in life u meant? :confused:

[whiteballz]

when it comes down to it, an unexperianced kid can kill themselves in any car.

i was in the middle of a three paragraph reply when my PC froze, so heres the cut down version.

Australian young drivers seem to have a harder time aquiaring their licences then other nations (except for NZ), so to shorten my second paragraph, there is no way to guarentee that anyone given the right circumstance wouldnt try to impress someone. to summarise paragraph three, a 911 is a PERFORMANCE car, always has been classified as one. i think its way too much power for a first car.

[Spastik_Roach]

I mean just a few days ago in some high powered indoor karting I was beating my 31 year old brother (and trust me he wasn't going easy) and some other guy who looked about 35, and I still wouldn't trust myself with a high powered car when I got my license. I mean i'm not meaning to brag, but surely that shows i've got some shred of skill eh?

[Falcon500]

While i admit i havent read hardly any of this page but i personally as a provisional driver find the general attitude of younger people owning high perfromance cars not only aggrivating but offensive what people dont seem to realise is that its a few indivduals who ruin it for the majority ive been behaveing and it gives me the royal shits im genralised because theres a few wankers out there who cant controll their feet and because its convient im apprently tarred with the same brush and me like every other younger driver has to pay excessive ammounts of money even with clean records.

all in all the system sucks i see where their comming from but there has to be better way of doing this....and no im not for restricting power limits what i am for is impounding and dealing with individuals who do misbehave though.

[Falcon500]

I mean just a few days ago in some high powered indoor karting I was beating my 31 year old brother (and trust me he wasn't going easy) and some other guy who looked about 35, and I still wouldn't trust myself with a high powered car when I got my license. I mean i'm not meaning to brag, but surely that shows i've got some shred of skill eh?
its more then likly the fact your alot lighter then them think about how much you weight and how much he weights me vs my brother go karting last time he was 102 kilos and i was 59 and guess who ran rings around him me :D

[drakkie]

What they should do i what they do now in Holland for motorcycel drivers:

No matter how old you are, you may only drive a bike with no more as 250 cc for the first three years you have your license. This should also be applied to cars.only with more cc offcorse then :)

[d-quik]

OMIGAWD t3h calc0n 15 b4ck!!!!!!

[Quiggs]

My state's worse. ;)
No arguement.

[my porsche]

I mean i'm not meaning to brag, but surely that shows i've got some shred of skill eh?
and/or about 50kilos less than each of them :p and in karting that makes a HUGE difference, i weight slightly less than 100 kilos so its hard to win for me, even when im taking the perfect lines

[SupraMan22]

While i admit i havent read hardly any of this page but i personally as a provisional driver find the general attitude of younger people owning high perfromance cars not only aggrivating but offensive what people dont seem to realise is that its a few indivduals who ruin it for the majority ive been behaveing and it gives me the royal shits im genralised because theres a few wankers out there who cant controll their feet and because its convient im apprently tarred with the same brush and me like every other younger driver has to pay excessive ammounts of money even with clean records.

all in all the system sucks i see where their comming from but there has to be better way of doing this....and no im not for restricting power limits what i am for is impounding and dealing with individuals who do misbehave though.

impounding would be good, usually its a fairly easy payable ticket, a slap on the ass, and they are back to doing what they did. Maybe not a slap on the ass, but our town marshal would like that. lol Restrictions would be pointless. But it would be reasonable if you had to carry specs on your car. At all times, if that was made, enforcing limits would be a little easy. But then you have the sleepers, and no one would know what the car was capable of. But in todays world, people would find a way to cheat the system, its like an ongoing, unstoppable cycle of idiotic people, who dont have an regards for other civilians. Most people who have fast cars, end up killing them selves, and others. Even people with out fast cars do.

[Vindesh17]

Ok...enough rambling. But, somone hit it on the head earlier in this forum topic about separate classes of licenses. If there is a lawmaker here, PLEASE make a separate class for damned SUV drivers. They have got the be the worst, ill-trained, rudest SOB's on the road.

I am done with my ranting.

I drive an SUV sometimes... well half the time I drive its in an Escalade because I need the space for my friends. I don't consider myself to be rude and I took BMW driver training, it came with my car and they let me use a X5 for part of the course, so I don't consider myself ill-trained. I would appreciate it if you would stop generalizing please, I get enough shit from the environmentalists at my school for driving a SUV.

[SupraMan22]

SUV drivers arent half the problem. Semis are a large problem, they think they have way to much control. A week or so ago my and my dad were driving into the city, closest to where we live to get gifts for my mother. Following in the left lane, at about 60-65 we were cut off by a semi, which was going mearly 55-60. Alot of SUV drivers are not the best because they do the same things. But that doesnt meen all do. Proper courses and lessons, and driving a SUV can be like driving a small car, well on the level of wits. But im only a teenager. :rolleyes:

I have herd nothign about Semi drivers. They are sometimes, usually all times, the bad drivers on the road. I also saw a Semi, a mcdonalds semi at that, go barreling through a RED light.

[Rockefella]

...of life?

an extra year of experience in life u meant? :confused:
Sure.. life, maturity, experience, knowledge. It would definately be beneficial. With your reasoning it seems as if we should start giving licenses to 13 y/o's considering life experience doesn't mean much.

[rev440]

Ha ^ thats pretty funny. I can smoke my dad in karting almost every time. Hell I beat the owner of the place but that doesnt mean im a good driver. I think teenagers with C5 vettes, Vipers, and other fast cars dont mix. My buddy killed some one when he lost control in his stealth and killed some one.

[Matra et Alpine]

Ha ^ thats pretty funny. I can smoke my dad in karting almost every time. Hell I beat the owner of the place but that doesnt mean im a good driver.
It usually ALWAYS means your'e a skinny kid that weighs marginally more than two feathers :(
HAte it when we go karting and there's one of "you lot" around.
Local track outdoor circuit has an uphill drag from a hairpin -- it takes the other 95% of the track to catch up and overtake with LOTS of effort to THEN see you guys go past again with ease :(

[Spastik_Roach]

and/or about 50kilos less than each of them :p and in karting that makes a HUGE difference, i weight slightly less than 100 kilos so its hard to win for me, even when im taking the perfect lines

I wasn't out accelerating them on the straights!

[Matra et Alpine]

I wasn't out accelerating them on the straights!
in single engine karts it's the BIG difference in braking and cornering speed that the lighter weight makes a BIG difference too. That should give you higher exit speed and hence pulling away on the straight tho :D

[Rockefella]

It usually ALWAYS means your'e a skinny kid that weighs marginally more than two feathers :(
HAte it when we go karting and there's one of "you lot" around.
Local track outdoor circuit has an uphill drag from a hairpin -- it takes the other 95% of the track to catch up and overtake with LOTS of effort to THEN see you guys go past again with ease :(
Or when someone gets the quickest kart of the bunch and after lapping the field goes about saying, "Yeah, thank you, thank you.. I'm the best, etc etc."

[F1_Master]

SUV drivers arent half the problem. Semis are a large problem, they think they have way to much control. A week or so ago my and my dad were driving into the city, closest to where we live to get gifts for my mother. Following in the left lane, at about 60-65 we were cut off by a semi, which was going mearly 55-60. Alot of SUV drivers are not the best because they do the same things. But that doesnt meen all do. Proper courses and lessons, and driving a SUV can be like driving a small car, well on the level of wits. But im only a teenager. :rolleyes:

I have herd nothign about Semi drivers. They are sometimes, usually all times, the bad drivers on the road. I also saw a Semi, a mcdonalds semi at that, go barreling through a RED light.

You got to take in some of the considerations for a semi though. They've got a terrible blind spot, and stopping one has never been the easiest task. Not to mention turns.

[Rockefella]

Hmm, this just got me thinking.. could it be possible to put a variable rev limiter based on the weight of the kart? For example, could a rev limiter be programmed/adjusted on the kart for 60 kg compared to 100 kg? I'm sure it's possible but probably complicated. :o

[rev440]

Or when someone gets the quickest kart of the bunch and after lapping the field goes about saying, "Yeah, thank you, thank you.. I'm the best, etc etc."

Good point Ive driven there prolly 45+ times and I know all the fastest karts. THey have a weird gird pattern where they let one groud go and the next group go after. SO if your in the second group its hard to catch up. Im more of a regular so I could drive the track in my sleep. It helps alot when your use to a track and such.

[Matra et Alpine]

We started strapping lead weights when we had the company club events.
Evening the weight up is a LOT easier and simpler :D
And if you're on the organising committee you can sometimes sneak a few extra kilos onto the "smart ass's" car :D Oh and not averse to sneaking a little on to the best drivers too :D

[SupraMan22]

You got to take in some of the considerations for a semi though. They've got a terrible blind spot, and stopping one has never been the easiest task. Not to mention turns.

It is true also. But some think they own the road. But when it ran the red light, it was yellow hundreds of yards before. Whats all this about carts. I want a shifter cart so bad. It would be awesome to go flying through my addition in one. There are quite a bit of people for where it is, and it sure would piss people off. :D

[Rockefella]

We started strapping lead weights when we had the company club events.
Evening the weight up is a LOT easier and simpler :D
And if you're on the organising committee you can sometimes sneak a few extra kilos onto the "smart ass's" car :D Oh and not averse to sneaking a little on to the best drivers too :D
Good point, much easier solution. :)

[my porsche]

i weight 210lbs and i beat everyone (out of 20) but my dad (195lbs), so i think that does say something about my skill level, i set the second fastest lap time of the day too

this place is very accurate, its owned by a former race driver, they have ballaclavas, helmets, suits and a nice light timer and board

[rev440]

It is true also. But some think they own the road. But when it ran the red light, it was yellow hundreds of yards before. Whats all this about carts. I want a shifter cart so bad. It would be awesome to go flying through my addition in one. There are quite a bit of people for where it is, and it sure would piss people off. :D

I suggest learn how to rebuild a 2 stroke engine. I can say prolly a new top end every year but I say get one its always been a dream of mine to race them but there "very dangerous". The bes thing about them is you can take them to track days and theres many track days across america and clubs for shifter karts. I say you should buy one and have fun with it.

Mp how tall are you?

[my porsche]

I suggest learn how to rebuild a 2 stroke engine. I can say prolly a new top end every year but I say get one its always been a dream of mine to race them but there "very dangerous". The bes thing about them is you can take them to track days and theres many track days across america and clubs for shifter karts. I say you should buy one and have fun with it.

Mp how tall are you?
yes i wanted one for a long time but by the time i had enough money (my dad wouldnt pay for it since he bought my dirt bikes) i was nearing car age and i decided to save for my car

i learned alot about mechanicals and engines from rebuilding my dirt bike engine (yz80, had it when i was much smaller :p like minus a foot :D) i think when im older and what not ill get a road bike (college) and a dirt bike to play around with

6'2"-6'4" somewhere in there, im supposed to be around 6'4"-6'6" sucks bullocks if i do get to 6'6"

[rev440]

MP your a big kid arent u 13? The good thing about shifter carts is there cheap and esasy to learn how to drive right. You can buy one for under 3k and have some fun.

[my porsche]

no im almost 15 actually, but i dont feel that tall for some reason

yeah i know all about karts ;) i have 3k but its all for a car, using what my dad is giving me i have just enough to get the car i want and a few personalisations, plus im getting probably 3-4 months so once i have that a kart would be redundant

[magracer]

I'm a little late for this but here goes my opinion:

- It depends on the kid. I mean, if my sister had gotten an F40 for her 16 birthday she wouldn't still have gotten a single ticket. Me on the other hand would have finished integrated to a pole or tree somewhere (if not a car).
- Getting track trained is good for getting to know limits in a safe enviornment, but can also give the youngsters an attitude which might turn him into a grater menace. It happened to me when I got track trained when I was 19.
- I know plenty of young people that raced in the national kart and road racing championship and still managed to crash their road cars (although they didn't manage to hurt people). One of them scraped a 911 after 6 hours of getting it (2nd hand one). 911, specially old ones, can bite you hard.
- Shifter karts are not easy to drive. They are very physically demanding; their performance is close to a F1 and they have no suspensión or seat padding. They are the best performance for the money IMHO.

I think the most effective way to pressure a young person to be a responsible driver is to make them pay for their driving expenses (insurance, fuel, tires, any damage, etc). Not that will do any good if their allowance is huge, so that should be kept under control too.

I for one, would think that people should start in beater cars, and progressively develop their cars category (and their performance) as they develop skills. I got a brand new car (not high performance) when I was 17 and managed to crash it hard within 6 months, as most of my friends did. On the other hand my sister -and her friends- had plenty of small incidents but no biggies.

Edit: It has been said plenty of times before that Driving 10/10ths in a beater can be as fun as in high performance cars, only stakes are higher

[QuattroMan]

Whats your opinon on 16 year olds having fast cars? It seems like theres always a kid who wrecked there dads vette should there be a limit on horsepower for a 16 year old? I have an 04 Mach1 with 325 horse btw
no way! get your self an 90hp civic,youll do well!

[F1_Master]

I'm a little late for this but here goes my opinion:

- It depends on the kid. I mean, if my sister had gotten an F40 for her 16 birthday she wouldn't still have gotten a single ticket. Me on the other hand would have finished integrated to a pole or tree somewhere (if not a car).
- Getting track trained is good for getting to know limits in a safe enviornment, but can also give the youngsters an attitude which might turn him into a grater menace. It happened to me when I got track trained when I was 19.
- I know plenty of young people that raced in the national kart and road racing championship and still managed to crash their road cars (although they didn't manage to hurt people). One of them scraped a 911 after 6 hours of getting it (2nd hand one). 911, specially old ones, can bite you hard.
- Shifter karts are not easy to drive. They are very physically demanding; their performance is close to a F1 and they have no suspensión or seat padding. They are the best performance for the money IMHO.

I think the most effective way to pressure a young person to be a responsible driver is to make them pay for their driving expenses (insurance, fuel, tires, any damage, etc). Not that will do any good if their allowance is huge, so that should be kept under control too.

I for one, would think that people should start in beater cars, and progressively develop their cars category (and their performance) as they develop skills. I got a brand new car (not high performance) when I was 17 and managed to crash it hard within 6 months, as most of my friends did. On the other hand my sister -and her friends- had plenty of small incidents but no biggies.

Edit: It has been said plenty of times before that Driving 10/10ths in a beater can be as fun as in high performance cars, only stakes are higher

I think that's giving her a little too much credit.:p

[Matra et Alpine]

I think that's giving her a little too much credit.:p
Hate to break thd news but girls get faster sooner on track than guys do.

They are MUCH more tuned to the car feeling and MUCH smoother. Guys testosterone gets in the way and they're FAR too heavy-right-footed.

My daughter showed up a few on track - on her first outing - and mates g/f is doing the Dunlop challenge this year :D

Stereotypes are dangerous :cool:

[Jack_Bauer]

I'm a little late for this but here goes my opinion:

- It depends on the kid. I mean, if my sister had gotten an F40 for her 16 birthday she wouldn't still have gotten a single ticket. Me on the other hand would have finished integrated to a pole or tree somewhere (if not a car).
- Getting track trained is good for getting to know limits in a safe enviornment, but can also give the youngsters an attitude which might turn him into a grater menace. It happened to me when I got track trained when I was 19.
- I know plenty of young people that raced in the national kart and road racing championship and still managed to crash their road cars (although they didn't manage to hurt people). One of them scraped a 911 after 6 hours of getting it (2nd hand one). 911, specially old ones, can bite you hard.
- Shifter karts are not easy to drive. They are very physically demanding; their performance is close to a F1 they have no suspensión or seat padding. They are the best performance for the money IMHO.

God damn! I wanna know what kind of shifter karts you've been driving, and where I can get my hands on one! :eek: :p


Edit: It has been said plenty of times before that Driving 10/10ths in a beater can be as fun as in high performance cars, only stakes are higher

I concur :)

[rev440]

My dad drove had a old like 1976 Porsche 911 and he said it was the most unstable car hes ever driven. I think we should have a UCP karting challange.

[F1_Master]

Hate to break thd news but girls get faster sooner on track than guys do.

They are MUCH more tuned to the car feeling and MUCH smoother. Guys testosterone gets in the way and they're FAR too heavy-right-footed.

My daughter showed up a few on track - on her first outing - and mates g/f is doing the Dunlop challenge this year :D

Stereotypes are dangerous :cool:
It was a joke. Hence the :p

I know girls are faster in alot of sports. My sis' set faster AutoCross times than I did in my Acura.:eek:

Like I said, we were both raised on a 944, but since she was driving a few years before me, she got more experience out of it.

EDIT: Although, she does scare me sometimes when she drives.:p

[Vindesh17]

If you want to know what scary is, sit in the passenger seat with your eyes open when my sister is driving, btw her car is a brand new boxster.

[my porsche]

I think we should have a UCP karting challange.
im down for that, everyone fly to houston and ill pick up the tab for karts drinks and food, i think they can accomidate 25 at the same time at the local indoor place i was talking about, its very cool, not like some of the cheazy places, they just got brand new faster karts about 2 months ago

[Jack_Bauer]

im down for that, everyone fly to houston and ill pick up the tab for karts drinks and food, i think they can accomidate 25 at the same time at the local indoor place i was talking about, its very cool, not like some of the cheazy places, they just got brand new faster karts about 2 months ago

If you pick up the tab for my flights too then I'm there! :D

[Rockefella]

That's a 40 hour drive for me. Maybe 35 if I'm lucky.

[my porsche]

doing what, 10mph? i got to amelia island florida in 14 hours, 6 to new orleans, 8

heres one of the places, theres another similar one too btw

http://www.track21houston.com/



from AMC Hamilton, trenton New Jersey, to Track 21, Houston, TX:
http://www.mapquest.com/directions/main.adp?go=1&do=nw&rmm=1&1gi=0&un=m&1da=-1.000000&1rc=L1AAA&cl=EN&ct=NA&1si=navt&rsres=1&1y=US&1ffi=&1l=Fbyo6o1TbtI%253d&1g=BSP80hUBHEM%253d&1pl=&1v=ADDRESS&1n=MERCER+COUNTY&1pn=&1a=325+SLOAN+AVE&1c=TRENTON&1s=NJ&1z=08619-2244&2y=US&2ffi=&2l=&2g=&2pl=&2v=&2n=&2pn=&2a=4815+HIGHWAY+6+N&2c=HOUSTON&2s=TX&2z=77084-2716&panelbtn=2

so 25 hours by mapquest's estimate, which uses exactly the speed limit, whcih no one does, so i bet you could do it in 20

[Rockefella]

Wow, I guessed it would be much longer. I'm thinking the approximate 20 hour trip to Florida has more to do w/ riding along/near the coast.

It's not as if I'm driving to Texas anyway. :)

[my porsche]

pretty much anything is better than jersey... :p

[Rockefella]

pretty much anything is better than jersey... :p
I know. :(

[F1_Master]

im down for that, everyone fly to houston and ill pick up the tab for karts drinks and food, i think they can accomidate 25 at the same time at the local indoor place i was talking about, its very cool, not like some of the cheazy places, they just got brand new faster karts about 2 months ago
I could easily make it in an hour or 2...I'd have to think about it, and you'd have to do it on a weekend....obviously.

[my porsche]

i cant now, but once i have a car, we should definately do that! im serious! haha

plano isnt too far right?

and also once a have a car you might have to get me into some of those events in that area ;)

[F1_Master]

Well, the Autocrossing at the Speedway isn't hard to get. Just sign up.

But I'm afraid I can't do anything for ya when it comes to the events held at the Motorsport Ranch since they are members only.;)

And nope, Plano may be about an hour or 2 depending on traffic.

[my porsche]

Well, the Autocrossing at the Speedway isn't hard to get. Just sign up.

But I'm afraid I can't do anything for ya when it comes to the events held at the Motorsport Ranch since they are members only.;)

And nope, Plano may be about an hour or 2 depending on traffic.
sorry i had just looked at the texas auto fest italia thread, i mean car shows, i can get in PCA events well enough, and there is and MSR opening here too, so i wont have to go all the way to Plano :D

[F1_Master]

Well, I unfornately wasn't able to go to the Concorso this year, but it didn't matter. I had already seen 2 Gallardo SEs at a private session in Dallas. White and Yellow.:cool:

The car shows are easy to get into. It's just going to be hard to find any E.S.C.T. members...except for me.

[my porsche]

cool, well anyway once i have a car we should definately do some inter-city karting :D

[my porsche]

the MSR here is actually open now...im going to try to convince my dad that once he gets a fast car (he told me yesterday hes going to in a year) that he should join :p

[F1_Master]

I didn't know there were 2 MotorSport Ranches...
http://www.motorsportranch.com/index.cfm
This is one I head out to.

EDIT: BTW, how far are you from College Station?

[spi-ti-tout]

I'll be there kickin' y0 ass in a HonDa.

[magracer]

God damn! I wanna know what kind of shifter karts you've been driving, and where I can get my hands on one! :eek: :p

I was thinking of the 250cc Formula E superkart, which I remember reading somewhere lapped only a few secs slower than a F1 in Silverstone. Tried googling a source but nothing showed. :confused: And no, I haven't driven them.

I think these are the top shelf in karting. Obviously there are slower ones in the market, but anyway, racing them is hard. Hell, even go karts seem to leave a scrape or two and some bruised muscles after 30 min. Yes, I'm not in top shape these days.

About my sister... The main reason she wouldn't have gotten any speeding tickets in a F40 is because she would have refused to drive it at all. You see, only two hard seats, no a/c, no stereo, harsh ride, loud exhaust, plastic windows, bright red colour, etc. :D :D :D

Edit: I like the way this is going, people getting together to go karting, etc. I'm going to make a goal of mine to compete in karting in 2006

[my porsche]

I didn't know there were 2 MotorSport Ranches...
http://www.motorsportranch.com/index.cfm
This is one I head out to.

EDIT: BTW, how far are you from College Station?
i knew there was one in plano/dallas, but last time i checked MSR Houston still hadnt found a suitable site

um, an hour or so, depending whos driving, texas world speedway is near there right? my cousin goes to Texas A&M (as i hope to) so he might be able to go as well, aybe even provide trailering in his tahoe :p

[my porsche]

I'll be there kickin' y0 ass in a HonDa.
eh, we'd give you bad directions :cool: :p

[F1_Master]

i knew there was one in plano/dallas, but last time i checked MSR Houston still hadnt found a suitable site

um, an hour or so, depending whos driving, texas world speedway is near there right? my cousin goes to Texas A&M (as i hope to) so he might be able to go as well, aybe even provide trailering in his tahoe :p
The Speedway is in near Bryan and College Station.

You'd get there before I do. It's about 86 miles from Houston. I'm 160 miles from it.

[my porsche]

yeah its close, bryan is very near college station, so id just give you a half hour head start haha

[Zondaboy1]

if a parent gives a kid a fast car and the kid kills themselves in it (not like suicide, but by an accedent) it's the parent's fault..they got them a fast car....
you know what my cousin got when he was 16??? his licence,,,,and right away his parents took it away for a few months while they showed him how this kid did this and he ended up here for a year. now he has his licence and the only thing he's killed is a few rabbits.

thats what should happen. it should be the parent's desicion to give the kid the licence, not the gov'ts
^^imo

[F1_Master]

Depends on the situation.

If he was killed by another driver, not his family's fault.
But I take it you do mean, if he's driving fast.

Like I said to Matra in a different situation, the kid's fault.
He CHOSE to drive it at those speeds. He brought the death upon himself. His parents would hardly be at fault, maybe a little bit, nothing compared the kid.

Kid kills himselve in a fast car, his fault. He chose to drive those speeds, he took the consequences.
I'm the same way. Whether it was doing 140 at the Speedway in the ol' Acura, or 80 in a 60Mph freeway in the 3000GT, I take responsibilty for any actions caused by my car because it was my choice to do the speeds.


Don't do the crime if you can't do the time.

[Matra et Alpine]

Like I said to Matra in a different situation, the kid's fault.
He CHOSE to drive it at those speeds. He brought the death upon himself. His parents would hardly be at fault, maybe a little bit, nothing compared the kid.
|So if a parent gives a kid a GUN and he shoots someone then the parent has NO RESPONSIBILITY ?

Sorry, clearly anyone providing a dangerous weapon to someone NOT PROPERLY TRAINED in it's use is culpable.

A fast car in the hands of a testosterone-fired-teenager IS a dangerous weapon :D

[Spastik_Roach]

UCP karting challenge would be awesome :D Maybe when you've got your resturants running you can pay for all our air fairs too eh Colin?? :D

[aNOBLEman]

I'm hearing a roadtrip to Colin's house over spring break. :D Too bad I'll have to take Supraman's car. haha

[SupraMan22]

Screw you tom. The Blazer prolly gets as good mpg as your car. The supra would be a smarter choice but its quite a fit. But if we did, it would be one of my cars or die in yours. That or we'd shake at 55mph all the way there. lol. Where does this Colin live anyway? A trip would be fun. But i get my license in march. :o

EDIT: We will start planning now, and steal my brothers truck. You can drive though. I don't feel like driving a 6 speed all day. Maybe we can stereotypical teenagers like everyone thinks, and street race. JK! :p

[my porsche]

maybe not yet, and also im going to steamboat for spring break, so you can come, i just wont be here

in time my boys, in time :D

[SupraMan22]

lol, well have fun. It would be cool though. If everyone in the US, i have no clue how, met up and hung out for a few days. :cool:

[my porsche]

that would be baller, road atlanta track day anyone? a few members and i have talked about a ucp track day, but thats well in the future, right now theres like 10+members all around the same age that are active on ucp, so we could do this

[SupraMan22]

That would be amazing. I could finally see what my car does. goodie. lol. Hopefully thats what you meen. Great plans, hope they work "in the future" :)

[rev440]

lol, well have fun. It would be cool though. If everyone in the US, i have no clue how, met up and hung out for a few days. :cool:

Sounds like a plan. I think most of you are in Texas thats a bit far for a kid from Ohio. We should have a UCP Karting world tour. Everyone who particapates gets to have the particpants to there own track. Im sure we could get some company to pay for it all. Im thinking like a karting F1. A kid can dream cant he

[my porsche]

no just me, shro0olvl, f1 master are from Texas, and then theres those 2 guys a few posts above, and then other people who might be ablt to meet up are rockefella, hector (taz), dino scuderia, and anyone else is welcome

[my porsche]

Sounds like a plan. I think most of you are in Texas thats a bit far for a kid from Ohio. We should have a UCP Karting world tour. Everyone who particapates gets to have the particpants to there own track. Im sure we could get some company to pay for it all. Im thinking like a karting F1. A kid can dream cant he
we could film it and make a documentary, theres always some jack ass, err...filmographer willing to pay for that

[F1_Master]

I wouldn't try an Jackass stunts since that the show itself was canned b/c a child lit his face on fire after seeing a skit (though none of the aired or non-aired versions I've seen contained such a skit), but this is a whole 'nother story....

To get on topic, here's something semi-related.
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/news/localnews/stories/122905dnmetteens.251d2cd2.html

Summary: 14 year old boy dies after driving a truck into a tree at 3 in the morning and injuries 3 other kids.

I guess that explains why "Driver's Age=16" for America, or at least Texas.

[my porsche]

I wouldn't try an Jackass stunts since that the show itself was canned b/c a child lit his face on fire after seeing a skit (though none of the aired or non-aired versions I've seen contained such a skit), but this is a whole 'nother story....

To get on topic, here's something semi-related.
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/news/localnews/stories/122905dnmetteens.251d2cd2.html

Summary: 14 year old boy dies after driving a truck into a tree at 3 in the morning and injuries 3 other kids.

I guess that explains why "Driver's Age=16" for America, or at least Texas.
haha no i meant theres always a jackass willing to sink some big money into a documentary :p

[aNOBLEman]

A track day would be awesome me and Kobey (SM22) could carpool down there because my car is NOT a track car, not even worthy of seeing a track...anywhere. Of course I am saving up for a late 80's Bimmer, hopefully a manual. :)

[SupraMan22]

Yeah we could finally get some miles on the Sup. Rev we live in Indiana, about 3 hours from the IN/OH border. So if this happened you could meet up with us. Then we could drive down there as a pair. My car is a 2+2, so theres about no room in the back. But yeeeah, tom your car would be nuts on the track. lol What does everyone drive? I'm assuming cars that COULD be put on a track. I have a 89 Supra. Another too, but its no track SUV for sure. :cool:

EDIT: Tom, nick the prick got like a 95 BMW 325is. Its sooooo small. But im sure it will piss you off. LETS DING THE DOORS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Rockefella]

Yeah we could finally get some miles on the Sup. Rev we live in Indiana, about 3 hours from the IN/OH border. So if this happened you could meet up with us. Then we could drive down there as a pair. My car is a 2+2, so theres about no room in the back. But yeeeah, tom your car would be nuts on the track. lol What does everyone drive? I'm assuming cars that COULD be put on a track. I have a 89 Supra. Another too, but its no track SUV for sure. :cool:

EDIT: Tom, nick the prick got like a 95 BMW 325is. Its sooooo small. But im sure it will piss you off. LETS DING THE DOORS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
My car is fast. It'll beat all of your cars, easily.

http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/forum/showpost.php?p=443427&postcount=35
http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/forum/showpost.php?p=443428&postcount=36

[johnnynumfiv]

I wouldn't try an Jackass stunts since that the show itself was canned b/c a child lit his face on fire after seeing a skit (though none of the aired or non-aired versions I've seen contained such a skit), but this is a whole 'nother story....

That kid is from my town, hahaha. He actually it was darwin in action, he's an idiot and was recently kidnapped by his drug dealer...


I'm down for a track day. Perhaps autocross, where I'd school you all.:D

[Rockefella]

That kid is from my town, hahaha. He actually it was darwin in action, he's an idiot and was recently kidnapped by his drug dealer...


I'm down for a track day. Perhaps autocross, where I'd school you all.:D
I dare you to take on the White Stallion, aka the Pontiac Bonneville.

[SupraMan22]

I'll be the first when the time comes around. :rolleyes: Me and my Co-Pilot aka ToMas. :D

[my porsche]

we all know who would win track day honors...so lets not even bother debating it

i would kill everyone, every time, with my super smooth style and perfect lines, excellent braking and acceleration, its not even worth trying

[aNOBLEman]

i would kill everyone, every time, with my super smooth style and perfect lines, excellent braking and acceleration, its not even worth trying

That's a good joke man. :) Who needs to brake when you have super sliding skills like me. :D

[my porsche]

youll still lose alot more speed than me, hence i would win :D

[F1_Master]

youll still lose alot more speed than me, hence i would win :D
What car do you have, exactly?

[my porsche]

none as of yet, but soon my precious

[F1_Master]

Yeah, that's none as of now, so right now, you got nothin'. :D

[my porsche]

soin MY car, no i would lose, as it would be me frantically running around the track all suited up holding a steering wheel and making vroom vroom sounds with my mouth


but with the proposed date, i might have a fair chance :p

[F1_Master]

soin MY car, no i would lose, as it would be me frantically running around the track all suited up holding a steering wheel and making vroom vroom sounds with my mouth


but with the proposed date, i might have a fair chance :p
It's ok, we'd let you have a 30 minutes start.:D

I'd probably loose though. My 3000GT isn't very "lightweight", and I don't think my particular M3 year could keep up with the "Porsche.":p

[SupraMan22]

The supra would kill all. Its basically been proven, haha skyline killer. not, but seriously, a 3000 would be a good match. The porsche would also. And as for sliding, i think i have the best chance. :)

[Spastik_Roach]

go the toyota corona y0

[aNOBLEman]

youll still lose alot more speed than me, hence i would win :D

But I would have more fun. :p

[SupraMan22]

your car would be fun. Stiffen up the suspension a bit. lol

[my porsche]

but seriously, a 3000 would be a good match. The porsche would also.
i think it would be close and fun :)

[kingofthering]

this is turning into a fanboy thread.

[F1_Master]

Explain.

[my porsche]

my thoughts exactly

[SupraMan22]

Yeah explain please. We are talking about cars, in which all of us own. And what our plans are for in the future, such as meeting up, *cough*rookie*cough*. jk, but explain. :D

EDIT:

i think it would be close and fun :)


Agreed

[QBridge]

The number one culprit is parents who buy the car or help their kids buy it not knowing their own kid well enough to know that they cant be trusted with their own safety and kids who never learn the value of buying a car on their own money - spoiled, rich, white, kids living in the suburbs and I don't I feel sorry for them dying. I saw those fast cars on sale on Ebay in California suburbs.

If the kid buys a fast car on their own props to them for buying their own car and if they die that's their business and their own fault, nobody can be responsible for their own death but themselves.

[SupraMan22]

So if a teen is driving safely, the speed limit, etc. Gets t-boned by a car on the drivers side. He dies instantly thats his own fault. Explain please. I have friends who all have fast cars, 2 have BMW's, 1 has a truck with over 300hp, a friend who is getting a Trans Am with about 400, friends with mustangs, etc. None have died yet, and they all are amazingly good drivers. Think before you speak. Not every teen in the world is a bad driver, just because his/her parents have money because they work thier asses off. Who cares if they dish it out for nice things, thats what its for. If you dont feel sorry for people dying, then i feel sorry for you. Thats low. Not all deaths are personaly related. People died on new years because of drunk drivers. Is that thier fault too? If you think it is stupid for kids to drive fast cars, you must be riding your little 21 speed bicycle around. The only thing that isnt by its self/or with a passenger capable of going fast. :cool:

[my porsche]

at least for me, the faster your car is, the more responisiblity is placed on your, and the less you want to screw it up, and if a teen doesnt drive like that, then thats THEIR fault, but them dying isnt their fault, unless their driving was the cause of the accident, but like SM said what if theyre going the speed limit thorugh a greenm light and get t-boned, yeah that sure is their fault

[PerfAdv]

Number one killer. (http://www.mccoymwr.com/Family/Killer%20of%20Teens.htm)

A stat that stuck in my mind: 7% of registered drivers are aged 16-20, yet this group accounts for 20% of all fatality accidents.

[Matra et Alpine]

So if a teen is driving safely, the speed limit, etc. Gets t-boned by a car on the drivers side. He dies instantly thats his own fault. Explain please.
If he lacked the trainign and experience to recognise potential dangers and how to decide approprate reaction then yes he has some "blame".

But that's not really the point as the assumptino being placed in ALL the points I've read so far is that the DRIVER is lackign the ability to drive the car owned.


I have friends who all have fast cars, 2 have BMW's, 1 has a truck with over 300hp, a friend who is getting a Trans Am with about 400, friends with mustangs, etc. None have died yet, and they all are amazingly good drivers.
And therein is the difference.
I coudl equally claim to know hundreds of teenagers who handle high performacne cars well. BUT that woudl be limiting my comments to the ones I've known and driven with ov erhte years on the tracks. BUT if I widen it slightly to include the many idiots I encounter at shows and "cruises" then the good are WAY OUTNUMBERED by the ones who THINK they are "good".

It's the latter majority that the conern is over and that SOME of them get enough money to fund the purchase of a car faster than their abilities. It's THOSE that need soem form of restraint. If you look at accidents in your area I thkn you'll find may are young(er) drivers exceeding "safe" speed for the car they are in.


Think before you speak. Not every teen in the world is a bad driver, just because his/her parents have money because they work thier asses off.
Likewise, thinking might have illuminated that nobodey has said ALL are "bad".
Nor does the label "not dead yet" then mean everyone in a fast car is a good driver :D

If you think it is stupid for kids to drive fast cars, you must be riding your little 21 speed bicycle around.
Or maybe just reflecting the majority :D
Also, accidents OFTEN involve others OUTSIDE of the vehicle. Especially if "excess speed" is involved. THere are a lot of head-ons in Scotland as less experienced drivers drift to the outside or cut the corner due to their speeds - an especially bad thing in a motorbike :(

In "general" it IS safer if drivers learn in under powered cars with neutral handling and then move up the scale as basic road-craft and positioning skills are learned. I would tend to say that the FASTEST drivers are those who have come up through that route than those who get power and handling in their earlier cars :D

[SupraMan22]

I agree with you matra. All is true, as you are the master. ;) But i was simply putting that if someone runs through a red light, or a stop sign. And you are paying attention to the road and get hit. Its not really your fault. It could have been avoided but very unlikely. Most of the time you expect people to stop, but when they arent stopping its too late. And yes high powered cars do indeed give you more responsibility. To me atleast, i cant drive on my own yet. but i know there will be no screwing around in my car. Unless it is in a safe enviroment. Via track, or drag strip. :) Some kids are idiotic though. Basically matra i was implying to the "rich" peoples kids. Who buy them nice things because they have the money. It seemed to me he was directing it tward all, since he didnt say most. Sorry about that one.

[Matra et Alpine]

But i was simply putting that if someone runs through a red light, or a stop sign. And you are paying attention to the road and get hit. Its not really your fault. It could have been avoided but very unlikely. Most of the time you expect people to stop, but when they arent stopping its too late.
Advanced motor bike riding teaches almost the exact opposite.
Ever wondered why you NEVER seea bike cop hit be anything ?
Cos they're trained to AVOID potential danger.
Having ridden with some of them then they are on another plane of exsitemce on danger observation and riding VERY quickly very, VERY safely.
I've avoided a MAJOR incident when a white van changed lanes. The training I got saved my life. I was able to identify the potential risk and take preventative action which avoided the contact.
( the example of red lights .... IF there is statiorary traffic at the lights then it's considered safe, if the road is CLEAR than that is a potential risk which is factored in to road position, speed and driver attention )

Some kids are idiotic though. Basically matra i was implying to the "rich" peoples kids. Who buy them nice things because they have the money. It seemed to me he was directing it tward all, since he didnt say most. Sorry about that one.
It's OK, I was just reading it the different way and spotted it :D
It's whre we miss true "conversation" where everything doesnt' noramlly need repeated as it's said int eh same minutes. Forums really need trhe reader to work harder to "keep in context" things like that.

[PerfAdv]

In "general" it IS safer if drivers learn in under powered cars with neutral handling and then move up the scale as basic road-craft and positioning skills are learned. I would tend to say that the FASTEST drivers are those who have come up through that route than those who get power and handling in their earlier cars :D
I agree with this point most strongly. I notice even older corvette drivers and the like, afraid to push their cars, as if a powerful car is like a wild animal that'll bite. The problem is that they haven't ever pushed a car to the limit and don't know what a car does at the limit. Never having learned car control and dynamics in a more forgiving car, when they're thrown into a ego-massaging car like a 'vette or Viper their scared to push it. When they lose control, it's somehow the cars fault.

And an inexperienced kid in a powerful car is shear stupidity!

[nota]

My brother has four children, now aged 17-21. Three of them are licensed and two own their own (4cyl) cars. They're all good kids - thoughtful, honest, trustworthy with money etc - and are no less responsible or immature than the average person of similar youth

So I ask myself the pertinent question - would I feel confident & comfortable in lending my OWN car to any of them, for say even a week or two?

Sorry, no way. For as surely as night follows day, my pride & joy would inevitably incur abuse at some stage during their tenure. As in tested to the max through being floored, revved, screeched, sped, skidded, thumped, bounced & pounded at least once or twice, and likely more than thrice

So if I don't feel confident enough to allow these beloved blood relatives of mine to be in charge of my own vehicle - which btw is only moderately powered - how in hades can I be comfortable in the thought of sharing the roadway with some unknown 16 y/o child from Jet-Jockeys-Anonomous who is behind the wheel of a really powerful vehicle?

[QBridge]

So if a teen is driving safely, the speed limit, etc. Gets t-boned by a car on the drivers side. He dies instantly thats his own fault.
That's one instant where what I said doesn't apply because it's someone elses fault. What I said is about kids or young adults who cause an accident.

I have friends who all have fast cars, 2 have BMW's, 1 has a truck with over 300hp, a friend who is getting a Trans Am with about 400, friends with mustangs, etc. None have died yet, and they all are amazingly good drivers. Think before you speak. A driver can be excellent but any driver is a bad driver when they take unnecessary risks. I can be a good driver also but if I drive risking everything for a thrill than I will most likely kill myself. Self control is something many of your friends and many young people don't have. Trust me. They are very weak minded.

Not every teen in the world is a bad driver, just because his/her parents have money because they work thier asses off. Who cares if they dish it out for nice things, thats what its for. If you dont feel sorry for people dying, then i feel sorry for you. Thats low. Not all deaths are personaly related. People died on new years because of drunk drivers. Is that thier fault too? If you think it is stupid for kids to drive fast cars, you must be riding your little 21 speed bicycle around. The only thing that isnt by its self/or with a passenger capable of going fast. :cool:I'm sure their parents work very hard at the office sitting down. These times are very hard for office people. The ONLY reason their parents spend so much money on a car whose value drops instantly and continuosly as soon as it's sold is because they don't know the value of money and they DON'T care about money because they've always had money.

All of that sums up the reason why I have no sympathy for them. Go to some certain urban areas and death comes in many different forms and shapes, daily but nobody cares.

[Distress]

Wish I had time to read this whole post...this forum is to busy for me :(

Insurance is more costly with sporty cars and young drivers; otherwise, I suppose a high-powered vehicle isn't a good choice for a "first driver".

Personally, I choose the Cavalier over a Firebird when I recieved my first car...I wasn't sure if I was "ready" for a V8, and with winter weather; of course, I was paying for insurance as well *shrugs*.

[SupraMan22]

That's one instant where what I said doesn't apply because it's someone elses fault. What I said is about kids or young adults who cause an accident.
.

No you didnt.

[d-quik]

Sure.. life, maturity, experience, knowledge. It would definately be beneficial. With your reasoning it seems as if we should start giving licenses to 13 y/o's considering life experience doesn't mean much.i dunno, i know it sounds shitty

but if a 13 year old can pass a stringent driving test then give him/her the license.

[Rockefella]

i dunno, i know it sounds shitty

but if a 13 year old can pass a stringent driving test then give him/her the license.
The driving test is so easy I can train a monkey for 5 days and get it to pass. It's what happens after the test, where the level of immaturity comes in. It's not hard to drive 15 mph, make a k-turn, stop at a few stop signs, and parallel park.

[nota]

^^ Thats right. The issue isn't nessecarily about skills, its all about attitude

And one only has to scroll through any car forum to realise that a required quality for safe driving, that being emotional maturity, is not an abundant feature within most 16 y/olds

[charged]

^^ Thats right, I know when I was 16, I passed the test easy. Within a few months I was hooning up the streets with little or no car control. My car was a VG pacer with a LSD, soon found out what LSD can do in the wet:eek: It was more good luck than good car control that got me through my early years of driving.

[quattro_20v]

Well driving tests arent really easy if you ask me. But then again our government wants a lot to fail so they have to pay for another exam...

[Zondaboy1]

if a parent gives a kid a fast car and the kid kills themselves in it (not like suicide, but by an accedent) it's the parent's fault..they got them a fast car....
you know what my cousin got when he was 16??? his licence,,,,and right away his parents took it away for a few months while they showed him how this kid did this and he ended up here for a year. now he has his licence and the only thing he's killed is a few rabbits.

thats what should happen. it should be the parent's desicion to give the kid the licence, not the gov'ts
^^imo
couple things i have changed my mind. a big problem with things like this is kids who dont know how to drive want to see what it's like and steal their parent's cars and kill someone or get in an accedent or something
my new oppinion
the gov't should LOWER the driving age. yes, thats right, little irrisponsable 14 yearolds driving around in crapp-ass toyotas
that would take care of the first part. the insurance would cost more... and so would the tickets. but they wouldn't be able to drive every day. only once a week or month. then their licence is only valid everyother month. so they get to drive 4/5 times a month. then there should be a sub-150 BhP limit. i dont mean lightwieght stuff with a 150 Bhp limit, i say heavy stuff but not like an SUV. something with a low center of gravity a sub 100 MPH limit and a sub 150 BhP limit. and they wouldnt be allowed to modify- even the looks of their cars. the only thing they would be able to change is safety devises, ie: brakes, seatbelts, airbags, tires and the sort
but not modify like racing brakes or racing tires.... modify like stock parts, a replacement. that i think would be the safest idea. it sounds crazy, but so crazy it just might work.

SWEET!!! my school just called saying we get off early tomorrow!!!!! thats AWESOME!!

[SupraMan22]

The driving test is so easy I can train a monkey for 5 days and get it to pass. It's what happens after the test, where the level of immaturity comes in. It's not hard to drive 15 mph, make a k-turn, stop at a few stop signs, and parallel park.

Very true. Thats all our state requires basically. I know people who took the driving test in like 10 minutes. Rediculious. It should be harder, well maybe not until after i take it. ;) :D

BTW Zondaboy you drive a crappy ass toyota too, so you are trying to make a point that hits you also. :p

[Rockefella]

Well driving tests arent really easy if you ask me. But then again our government wants a lot to fail so they have to pay for another exam...
Europe's test is much harder than America's, or so I hear.

[Matra et Alpine]

Europe's test is much harder than America's, or so I hear.
40 minute driving test on the roads in traffic and expected to "make good safe progress".

Have to demonstrate reversing round corner with traffic and pedestrians to contend with, emergency stops, parallel park with REAL cars front and rear, reverse into parking bay with REAL cars either side.

Get a test time at "rush hour" and it's a nightmare for the candidate as you are trying to exit junctions, roundabouts etc etc with LOTS of cars and everyoen else jsut wantign to get home as quickly as possible !!!

Drive to slow and "safe" and you can fail. Drive to agggressively and you'll fail.

[Rockefella]

40 minute driving test on the roads in traffic and expected to "make good safe progress".

Have to demonstrate reversing round corner with traffic and pedestrians to contend with, emergency stops, parallel park with REAL cars front and rear, reverse into parking bay with REAL cars either side.

Get a test time at "rush hour" and it's a nightmare for the candidate as you are trying to exit junctions, roundabouts etc etc with LOTS of cars and everyoen else jsut wantign to get home as quickly as possible !!!

Drive to slow and "safe" and you can fail. Drive to agggressively and you'll fail.
Wow, that's like getting strapped into a Formula 1 seat compared to the states' driving test. We: sit in the car, adjust the mirrors/seat, put on the seatbelt, start the car, and then signal out. From this point, we turn left onto the 'road' (this is all a 5k sq. foot driving park), make a few stops and turns, then park in a 25 foot space. After the parking, we make a K or a Y turn as some like to call it, and drive back to the original area. Takes 3-5 min.

[Matra et Alpine]

oh yeah I forgot about the "3 point turn" in the road as well ( I'm guessing that's what you call K or Y turn ). THAT TOO. In traffic, with cars potentially coming along as you make the maneouvre. Touch the kerb = fail. Not safely handle approaching cars = fail. Rolling backwards = fail ( disctretion from the tester here )

Also, good chance you get on to a road and EXPECTED to get up to 60 mph :D

[Rockefella]

oh yeah I forgot about the "3 point turn" in the road as well ( I'm guessing that's what you call K or Y turn ). THAT TOO. In traffic, with cars potentially coming along as you make the maneouvre. Touch the kerb = fail. Not safely handle approaching cars = fail. Rolling backwards = fail ( disctretion from the tester here )

Also, good chance you get on to a road and EXPECTED to get up to 60 mph :D
These testers/government must be directly related to Hitler I suppose? :p

[h00t_h00t]

My parents had driving tests as easy as the American a good 40 years ago, and they are terrible, I've had about 8 hours in a car and I haven't even hit the kerb yet. I'm all for hard tests.

[SupraMan22]

Me too. US, or Indiana at least only requires 6 hours in the car, 30 in the class. I passed my driving with a A-. Missed for stupid stuff, like not signaling soon enough, keeping speed up when switching lanes, very basic stuff that i know how to do know.

[Matra et Alpine]

These testers/government must be directly related to Hitler I suppose? :p
NO just a money-grabbing organisaino who've realised that they make more money if htey fail more people :)

Then of course if you get two speeding tickets ( 34 in a 30mph zone ) then you have to sit the whoel thing AGAIN.

BTW, forgot to mention that there is a written test including hazard observation video that you have to pass before you can sit the practical.
Another 40 minutes, opportunity to fail ( and quite a few do ) AND of course re-test fees !!!!

[h00t_h00t]

Well the only people that fail the theory tests are the ones who don't know the answers. You really should know the theory behind driving and the relevant highway code if you expect to get along with killing someone.

[nota]

My elder cousin worked on a farm as a jackaroo so he got his license in a tiny country town, I think it was Boolagul NSW which is near Hell btw

I remember his description. The driving test consisted of giving the local copper a lift from the police station to the store, a distance of about 600 yards, and then do a U-turn and return with the shopping. There were literally no corners to take. And no written test either. Only a verbal reference from his employer. For the oral exam it went something like this:

"Do you know your road rules son?"
"Yes sir."
"Alright then. If I catch you misbehaving I'll kick your arse"

Back then if you lived in really remote areas there was often no test at all - you merely sent away for your license

[rev440]

My elder cousin worked on a farm as a jackaroo so he got his license in a tiny country town, I think it was Boolagul NSW which is near Hell btw

I remember his description. The driving test consisted of giving the local copper a lift from the police station to the store, a distance of about 600 yards, and then do a U-turn and return with the shopping. There were literally no corners to take. And no written test either. Only a verbal reference from his employer. For the oral exam it went something like this:

"Do you know your road rules son?"
"Yes sir."
"Alright then. If I catch you misbehaving I'll kick your arse"

Back then if you lived in really remote areas there was often no test at all - you merely sent away for your license

True or not thats funny!