They get better with age.

[Blue Supra]

Newer model cars it seems dont last as long as cars made say 20 years ago. current cars are made from materials such as fibreglass, plastic and other synthetic stuff that doesnt last as long as say, steel. im sure you'v all seen it. i currently own a 1978 datsun stanza. "new school 1600" iv herd them called. its 26 years old this year and its still going like new. i wonder if 26 years from now people will have a VY commodore or a new nissan pulsar in such condition. what do you guys think? are new cars falling apart faster than older model cars?

[Smoke]

I think some do, and some don't.It all depends on the car your speaking of.

[Niko_Fx]

They might be falling apart faster. But they sure are a lot safer. Old cars made out of steel don't aborb a hit when in an accident........
Everybody loves a car that'll last forever but....

Interesting post. I want to see what everyone else has to say :cool:

[henk4]

Problems with current cars will be the following:

The electronics whereby I really don't know who would be able in 25 years to deal with current motormanagements etc.

The airbags, which will need to be replaced after 10-12 years in order to keep the car passing the annual controls. This is a costly affair and may see cars either being scrapped prematurely or being shipped to developing countries which are not so keen on working safety facilities.

Apart from this, technically speaking the current cars could last much longer.

[fpv_gtho]

i think most research done by manufacturers has shown that first car buyers rarely hold a car for longer than 10 years before replacing it, so with that in mind the manufacturers would be making them to stick together the first 10 years and well, whatever happens after that isnt their worry anymore

[tItEnEsS]

Problems with current cars will be the following:

The electronics whereby I really don't know who would be able in 25 years to deal with current motormanagements etc.

Umm even cars from the 60s have electronics that mechanics have to deal with, also that statment you made is like saying electritians now dont know how to repair the wiring in houses made 25 years ago or that computer experts cant work on Ataris, which is not true. Also cars now will last longer than cars made 25 years ago, the materials they use are better and more resistant to rust.

[Matra et Alpine]

Umm even cars from the 60s have electronics that mechanics have to deal with, also that statment you made is like saying electritians now dont know how to repair the wiring in houses made 25 years ago or that computer experts cant work on Ataris, which is not true. Also cars now will last longer than cars made 25 years ago, the materials they use are better and more resistant to rust.Sorry but todays ECUs are integrated units performing many function in the car.
If it breaks, it's a sealed unit to survive the environment, then there's NOTHING can be done except replace it.
In 25 years time, the computers used to diagnose the faults from these ECUs are themselves going to be hard to maintain. So a double problem.
Also, materials COULD be used to make cars last 25 years. But as has been pointed out, that is NOT in the interests of the manufacturers, so they won't do it !!
Try to get parts for cars greater than 10 years old.
I've 3 French sportscars.
Heaven forbid I break a rear arm on the Matra.
No remanufacturing because there aren't enough of them to justify it.
They're cast alloy so difficult to do one-off manufacture.
Even worse with plastic parts. Window parts for Matra are VERY difficult to find. Anyone who has a Matra holds onto them in case. Because if you break a window, you need new parts for the new window !
Look inside the car you drive and ask how many unique parts are made of platic. Plastic which the manufacturer MUST ensure can be recycled - that usualy means it's biodegradable. ow tell me how we stop them degrading with time ?
My Matra is a horror for using cardboard backing on vinyl pieces. It woul dbe near impossible to come up with the shapes if I wanted it to be concourse condition.
And THAT's an enthusiasts car !
What about that run-of-th-mill car ?
NO CHANCE :(

If you're lucky the car gets enough of a following to make remanufacturing a cviable root. But it's only in Britain that I'm aware of companies repressing body panels for 1960s MBC Mini's, MGBs and TRs. Don['t think this happens ANYWHERE else in the world - says a lot about the British though :)
BTW, take a 25 year old computer like the Altair which used an Intel 4004 (!), 8008 or Motorola 6800. You will NOT find replacement parts for those.
You might be lucky and be able to recover one from soemwheer, but memory chips and the more specialised UARTS - no way you'll get pin compatible.
Sorry.

[fpv_gtho]

here in Australia we're lucky that so many people choose local Falcons and Commodores over what else is on the market so that whenever you break something, if you cant get a reproduction theres bound to be a wrecker withit 100km's that has a good one

[henk4]

Umm even cars from the 60s have electronics that mechanics have to deal with, also that statment you made is like saying electritians now dont know how to repair the wiring in houses made 25 years ago or that computer experts cant work on Ataris, which is not true. Also cars now will last longer than cars made 25 years ago, the materials they use are better and more resistant to rust.

I think Matra has already sufficiently replied to your post.

[Doza]

Where I live, I see an equal amount of old and new vehicles on the road. And when I'm contrasting the two, I take "new" as 90's up, and "old" as 89 and down. For every new Chevrolet Silverado I see, there's a 70's C/K driving around. Same thing for the F-Series. Not limited to domestic trucks though, although those are the most common vehicles here. There are plenty of the boxy bodied Civics and Accords running around too. I know there is some distortion in this because of peoples' economic situation, but, for the most part, I think the old cars and trucks are on par with the new ones except for aesthetics as rust has had its toll on the cars.

[crisis]

I dont see too much problem with the ECUs as they are disposable when they shit themselves. The reality for service centres and auto mechanics is that they will need to be able to do services to cars with ECUs. Plastic, lasts longer than steel, especially that which was used on older cars. In my experience the older cars I owned all had rust somewhere. The rust protection and the quality of the paint these days makes them more resilient in that respect. Plus the plastic bits wont rust. Market forces conspire to force manufacturers to maintain build quality and while it isnt perfect in most cases, I believe it is constantly improving. Basically newer materials add to longevity and despite the cynical assumption (and I am a keen exponent of cynicism) that cars are designed to wear out, I believe the cars being built now will be looking a lot better in twenty years than the twenty year old cars do now. They dont make them like they used to. OK, let me have it.

[henk4]

Up to now nobody has challenged my point about the airbags as being the crucial longevity factor. Does that mean that everybody agrees, or even worse, that I'm right?

[Matra et Alpine]

I dont see too much problem with the ECUs as they are disposable when they shit themselves. The reality for service centres and auto mechanics is that they will need to be able to do services to cars with ECUs.
I wasn't suggesting that they won't be able to service a car with an ECU.
It will be harder though, as the current diagnostic tools age and aren't updated,
BUT, when there is an ECU problem they will not be able to do a repair other than replacement. In 25 years time how many spare ECUs for the current car will there be ?

The equivalent is suggesting a repair on a P4 chip. NOBODY can repair those. 50 years ago repairing a CPU was possible. But now it's all inside one little sealed package, so replacement is the only option.
The Intel 4004 processor is only 30 years old.
You cannot find a replacement other than scavenging from old equipment.
There were MANY more Intel processors made than cars.
It will be a LOT harder to find those replacements with the smaller volume.

The hope will be that general purpose ECUs and mapping systems will be well understood and in the public domain so that keeping the engine running is possible.
But also mapping all the other functions ?
The Citroen Picasso engine management box is also responsible for the digital dash and central locking ( friend had to get his replaced after 6 months ) also I've heard that the BMW MINI compuer actually handles all the switches too. With the interest the auto industry has in moving all components to a digital bus this will only get worse :(

[Matra et Alpine]

Up to now nobody has challenged my point about the airbags as being the crucial longevity factor. Does that mean that everybody agrees, or even worse, that I'm right?
No challenge from me.
What could be worse is as they age and become potentially unstable I can see the government(s) demanding that they be removed from the car only in a qualified, safe and secure environment - one they will tax us to use !
Then if no replacement is available they will just keep the car and scrap it :(

[Matra et Alpine]

IBasically newer materials add to longevity and despite the cynical assumption (and I am a keen exponent of cynicism) that cars are designed to wear out,
Cars are built to be cheap to build.
So, many cars now have suspension arms with integral bushes and ball joints.
If any part of it wears out or is damaged it is a throw away and replace item.
Today we keep our older cars on the road by replacing ball joints by finding equivalents or manufacturing siimple carriers.
With whole suspension arms that is going to be much more difficult and expensive.

Some items are NOT manufactured for servicing.
My Espace 4x4 has a central viscous diff - one of the first street cars to do so.
Unfortunately, it's unique and combined with the carbon-fibre propshaft makes it an expensive item to replace with new ( $3K ).
Unfortunately, the unit is sealed and requires special equipment to rebuild and pressurise. Guess what ? No longer available :( For that reason my Espace spends most of it's time on the road in 2WD ( by removing the prop !! )

I'm afraid I can see many of the issues we're discussing here in the cars I currently own - 15-25 years old :(