v8 supercars

[fpv_gtho]

it might have been eastern creek, sandown and another event that at times may have been filled by clipsal or another big event apart from bathurst. i read something today on the DJR website that made mention of the triple challenge and eastern creek.

maybe its something that got lost with the official recognisation of the category as V8 Supercars in 97 or 98 whenever the AVESCO board was set up

[Falcon500]

My old man has no idea and i have no idea...GSR doesnt exist anymore either so i cant email glen and ask :(

[fpv_gtho]

you would think that the V8 Supercars website would have some info on the triple challenge or any other similar crown, many famous drivers such as perkins, seton, lowndes, brock and johnson all seem to brag about winning it. perhaps theres some form of contacting seto through the FPR website, but they would have it set up alot more professionally so its not a sure thing i suppose

[Falcon500]

Well that it i just dont know i cheated a little to find setos websitegoing through Jayco australias page to try and find it and the page could not be displayed...seto now no longer has his own website...strange all considering frosty has his own....really strange indeed...
Ive got some year by year info talking about the winners of it but it doesnt explain the race...and i have large amounts of reading material covering the 80s raceing (going for a greatprice too) but i dont have the time to read them all....

[fpv_gtho]

well i just read something in an article posted on the official website and it said something like it was a non championship, 3 race event held before the gran prix.....

[Falcon500]

Bragging rights....

[fpv_gtho]

pretty much, its what theyve reduced sandown, clipsal and bathurst down to with the same points offered every round. they still treated it as a big thing though

[Falcon500]

Clipsal isnt really that prestigous to win....its more ofthe pretiege the round itself produces with its tourisum awards and how much it grows every year...

[fpv_gtho]

well its the 3rd biggest round of the season so surely theres some gratitude out there for winning it. if not for the drivers then atleast for the teams to be able to get through 2 back to back 250km races. for some teams to be walking away with no points, especially FPR and Lowndes, is a serious morale blow and has practically ruled him out of championship contention unless Ambrose as a major stuff up of his own, but with such a close points structure that 192 point lead Ambrose has over Lowndes has surely taken alot of pressure off Ambrose as thats 1 serious contender out of the way

[Falcon500]

Hardly rember ambrosehada fewDNFs as well and peopleprematurly ruled him out too....its too early in the chmpaionship to think like that....

[fpv_gtho]

well last year his smallest points hall was about 92 points for phillip island followed by about 110 points at clipsal and about 120 at pukekohe but apart from those, he was getting 160+ each round. at the end of the year he had about a 100 point lead over murphy who in turn was about 50 points infront of skaife i think so by that, you dont really want to be finishing too far out of the top 5 too much to stay in good championship contention. there is 12 rounds left though so theres plenty of time to catch up

[Falcon500]

Well Wasnt there a DNF at phillip island...i rember him being planted in the wall shortly after the bright incident....i think they red flagged the race so it might of gone back to the previous laps....lowndes is not out for the season anything is possible but hell have to go through much the ame shit fight ambrose had to to win....its unlikely but not impossible...

[fpv_gtho]

he couldve crashed, but if he pasted 75% race distance i suppose it isnt classed as a non finish anymore and hes eligible for points, but either way i dont think anyone moved in the ladder after dropping thier worst round, even with ambroses worst round at 92 points, murphy and skaife each had a worst of i think 30 points. i dont really think hes going to finish up any better this year though, he may end up earning 5th in the championship without someone being stripped of points like what happened to ingall when he was dropped from 4th to 7th, but his individual round performances are set to improve

[Falcon500]

What are you trying to say in that last sentence...you kinda lost me....

[fpv_gtho]

basically that with the way the championship points are set up, lowndes may end up getting bette results round to round this year, but by the end of the year the closeness of the points will screw him around and he'll only be in top 5 contention at best

[Falcon500]

Well he came 2nd in todays round where a few hours previous on rpm hey said the relationship has been on the rocks....

[fpv_gtho]

well when you think about it, this is the first season hes gone back to the same management hes left the previous season with. just think, 2001 was gibson, 2002 was 00, 2003 was fpr and 2004 he went back to fpr. glen seton in a similar sence has gone through the same thing, in the past few years GSR kept switching between that and FTR

[Falcon500]

I never tought he left fpr.....lowndes i ment...Bit them big changes would of upset the balance alot...he was also supposed to be a hero for ford but that didnt work out....personally as i said i doubt anything big will happen this year...wait till next...look at his pace at eastern creek....Garthhad a genuinely fast car and lowndes car was being held up by him in most areas (there where some areas GTs car where better though)
Seto only really went through name changes...thw wors change would of been fron 2 cars back to 1....that was the beginning of the end for his succseful campagining by himself....lets hope he can do better haveing someone run the show for him and let him focus on his driveing...

[fpv_gtho]

I can see how it was implied, but what i meant to say was between 2004 and 2003 was the first time he (lowndes) went back after the offseason to the same management, the same team, the same people. the only person missing of course was David Besnard. i think the issues he battled with to just be as competitive as he was during those first 2 years was immeasurable and it would have only been his good and calm nature that kept him ticking.

well to me it honestly thought as if Tander was trying to pull some Holden manouvre in holding back the highest place Ford on the track so that Rick Kelly could get a good gap. take away the safety car finish and what i just said Tander couldve been doing and Lowndes couldve once again taken Rnd 2. what a coincidence though that in 03 and 04, both of the 2nd rounds finished under red flag

[Falcon500]

And what an absolute irony that lowndes came in the same place (2nd) as he did in the round last year.....
I dont know if he could of taken him...there wernt many laps left and kelly had a good lead...but the possibility was most certianly there....

[fpv_gtho]

we can probably find heaps of stupid little things that last year and so far this year have in common but we wouldnt be proving anything.

its something that would have ahd to happened to really know, you cant make any solid predictions. like in bahrain, 3 laps before the finish, 30 second gap between webber and montoya, webber was lapping 9 seconds faster so he was 3 seconds too slow overall. without seeing the race or having it red flagged you woulnt be able to say with 100% confidence that webber would have or could not have caught montoya. its only because the last 3 laps ran clean that webber had the chance and he pushed himself to get that little bit extra needed to come 8th infront of montoya

[Falcon500]

Well anything is possible.....
I wasnt saying there was anything stupid about comming 2nd just how ironic it was...

[fpv_gtho]

i know, but still if we keep pulling out things in common with the start of this year with last year, wheres it going to take us really? sure lowndes came 2nd in both of the first eastern creek rounds, and both Rnd 2's were red flagged. all i can say is hopefully rnd 3 gets the ford 1-2-3 treatment but i dont think other than ambrose theres enough ford drivers to overcome richards, murphy's, skaifes and brights form to knock them off the podium

[Falcon500]

Wellthis is a huge change instead of winton we have pukekoe (sorry bout the spelling) so i think well be stressed to find similaritys....though i think it will be funny if the kiwis bomb out...

[fpv_gtho]

well theres several shakeups in the calender this year, where still yet to find out who will fill in rnd 12. murphy sure is looking like he might not come away with the win at pukekohe, him and skaife arent in the best of form

[Falcon500]

They are not showing great form...they arein much the same boat as fpr where in last year they whereimprovedbut everyone else did too....HRT and Kmart hae both improved subsantially but of course everyone else has too....and look at jb so far consitant top 10 starts and a fialry solid result....

[fpv_gtho]

well i dont think we should be so quick to write murphy off yet, he was showing improvement at eastern creek but that was only when everyone else was struggling to stay on track with too much of a dry setup. pukekohe is murphy's home ground as well so he wount be se easy just to push aside

[v8chick]

even though murph has only had an average start to the season and has been struggling with car setup i still dont think that people can write him off winning at puke again this year it would b just like murph to pull one out of the bag and surprise the hell out of every1 ;)

[fpv_gtho]

well its still the start of the season as well, so unlike last year ambrose wont be struggling with form, so even if murphy sorts himself out he;ll have a much bigger challenge this year

[Falcon500]

Well bad luck can stillplay a factor look what happend to ambrose last round and gave that kellyboy with teeth like austin powers a win....there is no saying hell win easily even if he does it should be another year of toothand nail unless the other front runners have DNFs and he wins next round....

[fpv_gtho]

well your never going to get rid of bad luck, thats just a factor each driver has to approach each round and realise. whether its from rain, form or setup you can never have a race that goes 100%

[Falcon500]

thats about the size of its in all realisum 100% in unacheivable in anything that involves a person...but that said you can get damn near...

[fpv_gtho]

yeah most of the time if a drivers having a good day, they may only be cruising around at 90% whilst everyone else is experienceing bad luck, or pushing at 100% because somethings gone wrong before that they have to make up. then of course there was Ambrose's little accident in pits last year where he must have easily been pushing at 110% to catch up to skaife at queensland raceway

[Falcon500]

It seems FPR are in touble at pukekoe...avesco has outlwed the new hollinger gearbox which offers no advantage other then a longer service life...castrol uses the same box but have older ones lieing about so its doesnt reallyphase them and hasprevokedlarry into going all out in his critasiums....fpr on the other hand have taken a moremildmannerd approach hopeing they can reverse or at least stall this snap decision....personally it hink it is a dogged act and wasnt given with enough notice the cars where basically on the slow boat to nz when they made it!

[fpv_gtho]

well i suppose you cant excape the rules, regardless if theyre ridiculous and pointless. i had heard before the season started TEGA ruled against using a newer versino of the holinger 6 speed, whether it was a revision or a different series of box, but they kept with the H-6 so i dont know if theres any links between that and what FPR have gotten themselves into

[Falcon500]

Well how aboutlast round....peoplewho arnt directly threatening ambrose (yet are doing well) seemsboth ambroses and lowndes dreams of even a podium this year are dashed and ambrose is backon top....personally ithink FPR put on a rather lowsy show...with mistakesfrom both driver and mechanics...though seto drove cleanly just couldent really match up....and skaife promising start blooper of a finish...

[fpv_gtho]

well ambrose has enough points over Bright and Murphy not to have to worry about them until Sandown, as long as he keeps competitive and doesnt lose form that is. if he keeps that edge over them and still wins a round or two over the year and keps on the podium he should have another championship in the bag. lowndes though, Prodrive really need to get their act together. FPR in GSR's workshop and prodrive elsewhere (BAR, Subaru WRC) seem to be successful, but combine the 2 and it seems to just be trouble.

[Falcon500]

it wouldent suprise me if lowndes left by the end of the year...but enough of that...we can only speculate quite pointlessly i might add!
It wouldent That an overview of what ambrose need with afew missing peices we alsoneed steven richards and who ever is in 3rd to contine doing more poorly then ambrose...and skaife performing well at the cost of more competative teams who threaten abrose right now would be a blessing!

[fpv_gtho]

well its actually Rick Kelly thats in 3rd, but i doubt he'll stay on the podium all year, just look at the flutters in form from last year, bright, richards, lowndes, ingall, ambrose and murphy were all hit and skaife was the only one who seemed to stay reasonably consistent. ironic that, mated with the consistent points system he couldnt fend off an ambrose attack

[Falcon500]

Yeah butmurph was nowhere to be seen on the poduium for alooooong time and was a major threat later on!...never dis count anyone but if ambrose preforms much the same hell be fine....

[fpv_gtho]

he was more of a threat because Ambrose lost his form after trying to drive a hybrid of his and Ingall's car for Sandown and Bathurst. if they had stuck Frosty with Ambrose i think he couldve at least gotten a podium finish at Bathurst. Its something ive been saying for a while now, Ambrose just needs to keep it up and he should be fine, the hard yards have practically been done, but after the road trip as i liek to call it (NT to WA to QLD to VIC to NSW to VIC for sandown) its going to be easier to predict the finish for the year

[Falcon500]

Nothing is easy to predict in raceing the best prepared car can pick up a stray cardboard box- Al tuner bathurst 1971 allan moffats team boss and owner of FSV
That saying rings true the term giant killer is also another term for lucky and well turned out....what im getting at is anything can happen...and darkhorses can surface...

[fpv_gtho]

the best prepared car can pick up a stray cardboard box


or a plastic bag :p . 2 of the 3 title contendors can also have a dud last round after one throws their back out and the other clashes with the team mate of the other title contender. skaife and murphy are gunna hate me now. it would be interesting though to go back in the archives and see those who have consistently mounted a challenge yearlong (excluding the years of the Sierra's and Skylines), you would think that it didnt happen very often that someone went through the whole year reasonably trouble free

[Falcon500]

I had an idea about that theother day...the ford run an all alloy SVO block and while aluminum has better heat dispersion it also absorbs heat faster...and with3 plastic bags melted over the radiator that can reall block airflow...possiblility...also another possiblityis we dont know what kind of set up 00 had maybey they ran the engine incrdibly hot...heat can have its advantages in these kkind of situations itcan aid in atomization of fuel for example.....
Troublefree is impossible rember HRT and their break downs after the titel was essentially theirs....even craiglowndes had numerous amounts opf troubles while his championship strangle hold was on...I cant (not saying it hasnt happend) rember anyone who has won every race in a year and had no breakages at all in a year....no breakages esssentially is a trouble free year....

[fpv_gtho]

well surely CAMS would take in the con's and pro's of the alloy block and make decision on whether they need to get an iron block built or the hjolden teams need to get an alloy block built, but surely with the element of control CAMS puts over the category you would think it strange for each manufacturer to be working with a different block material.

another strange thing about it also, whilst Skaife seemed to pick up over 5 plastic bags, Lowndes got one (although right in the middle of the splitter) and he was having problems.

well some people have minor problems, whilst others fight back from major problems. Ambrose at Pukekohe in 02 fought back from a punctured tyre to claim 3rd, but he couldnt do the same last year at bathurst where debri was cutting up his tyres quicker than normal. then theres Skaife at Adelaide where he won from the back of the field etc.

[Falcon500]

They did sort of and then ford wheredominating makeing cams put ballist in the front end sof the fords which upset their balance and took ages for them to sort out....
lowndes picked up more then that...more like 3 and skaife pickeedup a similarammount....I think he was bsing about his engine saying it was fine with fluctuations in temprature...im thinking it would ofneeded a rebuildafter the race....
I was talking to a holden fan who twitsted the story in his own mind...apprentlyhe ran over a dyna bolt...and apprently it was a fair distance off track....yeah right it was just off the kerb holding a tyre barrier untill it was cleaned up...isnt it funny how storys change for peoples own benafits....

[Falcon500]

Semms paul morris's crash at pukekoe had some real bad side effects...he is still hobbling around on crutches...he possibly may hang up his helmet for a few roubnds by my gessing...anyone have any more info on it?

[fpv_gtho]

yeah if its too bad he could miss the NT and WA rounds and wait until the series gets back to Queensland Raceway at Ipswich. The crash is not that dissimilar to Steve Elery's accident in race 2 at surfers paradise last year

[Falcon500]

All except the fact ellery though dazed walked away....apprently morris pulled 26g in that crash...he blacked out after wards and doesnt rember much...and whilei dont like him asa driver i dont actually wish any harm to ahppen to the man...hope he gets better....if not i hope he gives a good konica hopeful a good chance....

[fpv_gtho]

well both Ellery's and Morris's were a similar scenario where theyve collided side on into a wall but i believe Ellery's impact would have been at a much lower speed around the surfers paradise track, leading to the lower G forces and him being able to walk it off. I think Ellery hit the drivers side though where Morris hit the passenger side, which i suppose just enforces the extra impact in Morris's crash

[fpv_gtho]

thankfully it looks like Paul Morris will be joining the V8 Supercar convoy when they road trip up to Darwin with a fresh new body shell......

Sirromet Wines V8 supercar Team Works Long Hours To Build Car For Darwin

Release Date: 12/05/2004

A marathon car building program on the Gold Coast after a high-speed crash will have Paul Morris driving with a much-revised Sirromet Wines Holden Commodore in round four of the V8 Supercar Championship in the Northern Territory from May 21-23.

Morris and his team have worked 12-hour days over the past week fitting out a new VY Commodore body shell with a mix of new and old components in preparation for the round at the Hidden Valley circuit near Darwin.

"Our team has been working incredibly hard putting the car together and at this stage it appears the transporter will be heading to Darwin this Sunday (May 16) as planned," he said. "Fortunately we had enough 'spares' and equipment to deal with this type of situation without any extra load on our machining or fabricating departments."

The 36-year-old dropped from seventh to 11th in the championship when he hit a wall at 200-km/h in the previous round at Pukekohe in New Zealand on May 2, and his VY Commodore was badly damaged.

The car Morris crashed on the final lap of the third race of the New Zealand round is scheduled to arrive back in Australia by ship later this week, which would not have allowed the team enough time to repair the damage before Hidden Valley.

In the circumstances the team removed as many components as possible from the damaged car in New Zealand, then transported them across the Tasman Sea last week by air, and fitted out a recently-completed body-shell at their workshop at the Holden Performance Driving Centre.

"The new body shell was going to be a 'spare' and we were lucky it was finished just in time," said Morris. "We had enough bits, either in the workshop, or from the car in New Zealand, to build up a complete car for Darwin."

Parts removed from the Commodore Morris raced in New Zealand which will be used on his car at Hidden Valley include the fuel and oil systems, wiring loom, dashboard instruments and electrics, and the air-conditioner.

Team Technical Manager Paul Ceprnich said the gearbox, differential, and engine had been damaged on the car raced in New Zealand, and replacement units would be used in Darwin. He said the new body shell was essentially unchanged from his previous design.

Morris, who received minor neck and leg injuries from the crash in New Zealand, said he aimed to regain a championship top 10 position in the Hidden Valley round, which comprises a 20-minute race on May 22, and two 100km races the following day.

"The crash in New Zealand dropped us out of the top 10, so we are keen to get things back on track," said Morris. "Heat is always a factor in Darwin, and I think the air-conditioner we're using could be a big bonus."

"Hidden Valley has a slow corner coming onto the long front straight so you need plenty of horsepower. Around the back section there's some tight corners where you change direction quickly so you've got to get the balance of the car right."

Morris qualified 12th in the championship round at Hidden Valley in 2003. However, he was forced out of the first race by broken steering after contact with another car. In race two he finished 23rd after being slowed by an overheating engine, and in race three he was 30th after struggling with clutch and power steering problems.

"In terms of car speed we've made some gains since last year, and I think we can be very competitive this time," said Morris.

This year's championship leader is Pirtek Ford Falcon driver Marcos Ambrose with 532 points. Morris has 324 points, two behind 10th placed John Bowe in an OzEmail Falcon.

HIDDEN VALLEY – FAST FACTS

CIRCUIT LENGTH: 2.9km

RACE FORMAT: 1 x 20-min race (Saturday); 2 x 100km races (Sunday)

RACE LAP RECORD: Jason Bright (Holden) 1-min 9.041-secs (1999)

2003 WINNER: Marcos Ambrose (Ford)

CHAMPIONSHIP POINTS (after round 3): Ambrose 532, S. Richards 528, Murphy 509, R. Kelly 502, Bright 457, Baird 364, Ingall 350, Weel 347, Johnson 341, Bowe 326, Morris 324, Tander 322

[Falcon500]

Welli get the im[pression fromt his that hes driveing this weekend and it seems very lucky he had foresite....i wonder if hell test this weekend to regain the balnce of his car...a hastily built one will no doubt have a ffew things to improve on...as dick johnson said "you cant win bathurst ina rebuilt car"...while this race aint bathurst..nowdays all races here are just as serious rather then group C when he said that...

[fpv_gtho]

well AVESCO certainly arent trying to do anything to make it any different by offering the same total points across each round, so a win at bathurst is only worth a win at pukekohe or hidden valley (of which hidden valley is one of the shortest rounds with 20 mins of driving ontop of 200km's)

[Falcon500]

It more glory then other round thats just it...corkrins a buisness man before a sport enthusiest...he was even thinking of makeing bathurst 2x500 km races...the croud reaction was very poor and even the drivers grimmaced...hes there to make money not keeping it some what traditinal....

[fpv_gtho]

well perhaps someone needs to set Cochrane straight before he heads after each dollar before trying to pleas each spectator. splitting Bathurst in half is just asking for trouble. not only will it make it a 5 day event from the current 4 days, but people wouldn't be going as much and the viewings would be down so its not a really good business case really. he claims that ever since AVESCO was formed in 98 that its been successful and hes trying touse it as reasoning for everyone to follow his lead. my opinion would be to get someone retired like Moffat, Johnson, Brock or even Jim Richards running the show, someone who knows what the spectators love, someone whos hopefully got capable business skills (something that will be working in Johnon's and Brock's favour as theyve owned their own teams) and someone who can keep in touch with the actual racers and not send them somewhere they dont want to go

[Falcon500]

Spectators/safty first.....drivers/sembelence of previous year...rember there is no way to please everyone...group C had head aches...we wont even go into group a...Personallyi think an active board not compsed fully of suits...and containing a few retired racers...mark larkum,john faulkner,DJ, Neil crompton and peter brock would be my picks as they have only recently stopped full time raceing and have current experiance isnide these cars (not so much brocky i picked for balance and general public reaction...see always thinking :)) Moffat did see the current formula and i think had a crack at bathurst and sanddown but thats when his team folded....

[fpv_gtho]

well AVESCO can at least try and cater for everyone. just because its not possible doesnt mean they should only make a half arsed attempt. it sounds like a good proposal, but how could it be made as to not conflict with the current TEGA board, for those reasons, Larko wouldnt be able to get involved, but he is a terrific Ford spokeman nevertheless and it will be interesting to see actually at Sandown and Bathurst how he still performs after running the team full time now

[Falcon500]

I didnt say half assed attempt...but their attemp at pleasing everyone seems to have the bean counters on top...while important they are not the ones who should be aimed at pleasing...well end up like nascar at this rate...
Larko still could i was useing him as an example im looking at seasond drivers in this catigory hence the absence of allan moffat frommy short list (not that he wouldent be welcome) i think hell dook it all depends on time and effort he puts in...i wonder wholl he team up with? bargs frosty or another contract racer?

[fpv_gtho]

well i was simply using it as an implication, AVESCO may think that theyre providing us fans with alot, but theyre trying to use previous success as a springboard into future propositions. I personally dont think that the V8 Supercars should be going to China of all places, i would much rather see perhaps an American round at Laguna Seca where there will be alot more interest and at least the native tonque can be understood there and its still a V8 culture.

well if Larko could take the business load of being highly involved in his own team, TEGA and AVESCO then he should go for it, its only going to make the sport better based on his character as a person, but i dont think even Skaife would subject himself to that. My bet would be that he hops in with Frosty, Bargs has proven very capable in the BA right now and Frosty may just need the little bit of a push from Larko sharing the car to get him cemented into the series.

[Falcon500]

I think possibly even a round in japan couldent hurt terribly much...but marketing and culture is adraw back...im just curious to see how well they do on the pointlessly tight jap tracks....An american one is an interesting propersition...Persoanllyithink an enlrgement of the championship is needed and more of our tracks and prehaps one more nz track....A return at phillip island is big on the list...prehaps and up grade of wakefield for the top series of v8s...and another NZ track...i dontknow which though....
Frosty is as good as a driver as he ever was...he just gotcaught in the trap that hes too good for group B and not doing as good as he could of in group A...this story usually resounds through all sports...kid done good went to top level didnt do so good....pitty reallybut what can you do...hopefully orrcon has a secret up their sleave...or maybey rejoining the stones...

[fpv_gtho]

well i think before we start thinking about going overseas, however necessary it may be, we need to sit down and just clarify which tracks we, under no circumstances, can take off the calender, and in my opinion theyre Bathurst, Sandown, Eastern creek, Surfers Paradise and Adelaide. A NZ must also be put on before an international round, but with Pukekohe in jeopody im not about to suggest which track i think should be on there.

[Falcon500]

Well we shouldent of gotten rid of either phillip island or symmonds plains but tehy did...as i said buisness men they think of them selves and not the sport...and they didnt really give phillip island to fix the legitimate reason why they didnt go their (safety) personally i think we should have a race in every state and territory...now lets see if the act goverment is willing to fork out for a fair dinkum track...my guessis no...

[fpv_gtho]

By that do you want 8 local rounds plus Bathurst, or 8 including Bathurst, because realistically it should be a race per round PLUS Sandown and Bathurst, giving NSW and VIC 2 rounds and the total local rounds 10, then the NZ rounds gives 11 and that leaves 2 international rounds.

Now for a suggested calender:

Round 1: Clipsal 500
Round 2: Winton Raceway
Round 3: New Zealand
Round 4: ACT
Round 5: Barbagallo
Round 6: Hidden Valley
Round 7: International
Round 8: International
Round 9: Sandown
Round 10: Bathurst
Round 11: Surfers Paradise
Round 12: Symmonds Plains
Round 13: Eastern Creek Raceway

Hopefully each round from Rnd 7 to Rnd 10 would have a month between each round for preparation as this would be the peak of the calender

[Falcon500]

Im thinking for round 7 and 8 prehaps we could bring back mallala and phillip island and if international intrest flairs up let them make us an offer...prehaps they could race at a diffrent international venue every year for a large bit of flaver silverston ..nurburgring for example....it would be very hard logistically but itll really raise awareness worldwide and really give us a spectical every year!

[fpv_gtho]

well Mallala wouldnt be a bad idea, that would give SA a permanent venue i suppose but by that logic perhaps we should keep Queensland Raceway as Surfers Paradise isnt a permanent track either :confused:

well the idea of an international track lottery would draw attention, but it would have to be held at the event a year beforehadn to ensure the event would be on schedule, i mena just look at the fuss over China not being ready....

[Falcon500]

Well thats why we look at already prepared venues like silverstone and others :) it sounds like a good idea but will more then likly be a logistical nightmare...but i still like the sound of it....think of it leguna seca one year nurburgring the next and itll be a real challenge to nearly all the drivers....
It tough isnt it? figuring out which should stay and which should go....

[fpv_gtho]

well, i guess the bare minimums are still a race at either corner of the country including Bathurst, which gives surfers paradise, Symmonds plains, Barbagallo and Hidden Valley. With that the series can go international half the year, but thats too big a step right now, so it should be kept to ensure a round in every state and in NZ like i said before. perhaps Mallala and Queensland Raceway could slip in to replace Winton and Eastern Creek? Maybe the easiest solution will eb to expand to 16 rounds

[Falcon500]

16 rounds sounds good and prehapsthey could send the konicas to diffrent tracks every now and again around australai to scopeout tracks thatmight be ok for v8s....

[fpv_gtho]

16 should be possible, although teams are sayign they can only handle 13 rounds apart from Albert Park, but its still no where near the schedule NASCAR run where theyre out for like 30 weekends just doing mostly oval racing. the konica's could also fill the local void of the V8's going international more to keep the fans happy, although i dont know how many people would pay to see people lapping a couple of seconds slower with the same mechanics

[Falcon500]

Prehapsbefore we beat the extra round drum maybey we could allow the sport to grow more....its 2nd biggest...but alsoif you look at nascar look at all the hundreds of sponsors they have...I bet the biggest teams have nearly every part on their car sponsored! also NASCAR give a fair bit of its profits back to the teams offering cash across nearly the whole field! of course america is a big peice of real estate and the most productive country int he world...and nascar is a very rich sport with every team haveing 1 car per round so thats nearly 30 cars in the garage for a lone position on the grid...
But im all for more prehaps sponsors need to give more cash incentives and prehaops avesco could increase the prize pool....
As for the konicas you should be able to allow for that...dated machinary...usuallymore inexperianced drivers...but if you look closely their lapping faster then they where in 03 in alot of cases the cars are being refined but dont have the money in alot of cases hence the fact alot of great teams folding from competition....paul whiteraceing i thinkis probly the biggest indpendent left hireing an ex top level driver camron McLean (VIP pet foods AU and justoff the bathurst podium 2 times before the 02 season)

[fpv_gtho]

well the statistics have NRL ahead of V8 Supercars with 21% and 17% of the population watching both, so theres not much between the 2 (although if you compared how many people went out to see sports, i think AFL would clearly be out in front)

Somehow i dont think Tony Cochrane would be one to practically give away money, hes proven himself to only go ahead with something if the business case is there, and if thats not the case if theres profit to be made, but its usually at the expense of the fans, like dropping Phillip Island for China. I dont think i'd really like to see V8 Supercars resort to filling out every square inch of bodywork with sponsorship, it would just take a great element of desing from their liveries. You look at the liveries on the cars now and theyve got their main sponsor like Pirtek, Caltex Havoline, Shell Helix, Mobil, Castrol, Valvoline, SuperCheapAuto etc. and the whole car is built around a theme. Look at NASCAR and i reckon i'd be lucky to tell the different cars apart theyre so covered in sponsors

[Falcon500]

Nascars have main sponsors...the M&M car is the most easy to spot i think...butstill they are litrally coverd in sponsors....evetually itll probly reach that...no that im looking foreward to it....
NRL used to be at top...but super leauge really killed that...it was also ment to make more profits but really marred the game...it lookedto be on the mend untill all these rape alligations came up too...and all them womens lib shelias marching in on the broncos game SUCKED ARSE....
I dont see why AFL is so popular...its enteraining enough to whatch...but personally i think it has nothing on leuage or union (which is popular but no where near as much as the other codes)

[fpv_gtho]

well i hope that we never reach the level of NASCAR as they dont even take the original body shells anymore. they use aerodynamically designed guides on a steel cage for where they can put the sheet metal on the car, so the only resemblance to the stock going car's are the headlight shape. thats like putting funny car dragsters on an oval.

[Falcon500]

Well more or less your right there (refering to the funny cars) but i hope we dont reach that stage...and i never wittingly implyed that...i was talking about sponsors....
on an interesting Dick Johnson spent a fair bit of time in a nascar....he likedit a fair bt and while not incredibly succseful the american commintators loved him....he liked to talk to them and the public loved him....they stopped likeing himin a winston cup race when he mounted a wall in one of the few circut races they have....He swore alot and refered to the recovery crew as turkys when they where takeing their time getting him out "I just wish these turkeys would hurry up and get me back on the track I wanna race!" also another merable quote was "they are quite easy to drive when set up right...when set up wrong they are the most evil peices of cast iron!" also this may be why his son wants to go over there....

[fpv_gtho]

well the NASCAR formula i'd say is alot more costly one, and they get away with it because of the larger American fanbase and the yearlong season practically. They also have a fair bit of variability in the cars dependant on the track, like some tracks they will be able to use the 750hp engines, whilst some they will have a 500hp restrictor on the engine, then theres 2 unique body styles as well for higher and lower downforce for the slower and faster tracks, the design for the slower tracks having alot better cooling for the engine as well

[Falcon500]

With money comes many glorious things....i only wish i supported NASCAR and had pay tv....theres nearly 60 races in a year to whatch and another 30 odd if you count the Truck series (forget its name)...but oh well you get that...still a prefernce over f1....
As for the restrictors they use that to keep the speeds reasonable because my god them cars can wind out....even in the 80s they where averaging 160 mph on some tracks! their blidningly fast and have some of the best crashes you could ever hope for :D

[fpv_gtho]

NASCAR's just not my type of racing, whether its as a spectator or as an interest to get involved in. its just too straight forward and too controlled. Like even with all the control formula's being intergrated into V8 Supercars, it hasnt reached a point yet where driver safety has dictated that each team construct a custom tubular chassis to fold bodywork over that somewhat resembles the road car. the teams can literally order just a rolling body and intergrate their roll cages into the body

[Falcon500]

Well it does keep the costs down considrably..and also saftey is real important especially seeing how fast they are going on these oval tracks....

[fpv_gtho]

Well i think the safety highlight of the V8 Supercars are their fuel tanks, being made of Kevlar and Carbon Fibre (Kevlar being what they put in bulet proff vests as well) but there hasnt really been any crashes where somethings happened that AVESCO has had a look and seen some improvement needed. I cant imagine what wouldve gone on when the driver was killed in the Group A Commodore that forced them to put the Caltex Chase into Bathurst. The oval tracks they would be able to sustain speed alot more, but i think its a slightly better environment to crash. In a way its worse though for cars crashing into each other as theres nowhere to escape

[Falcon500]

Yeah there is that and there is the fact theat the cars can pinball off the wallsand make crashes like that even worse!

[fpv_gtho]

well in that sense its probably a worse high speed environment. when they crash, theres nowhere to go but into the side of the track or into each other. For the spectators safety though its probably safer, but really how often do you hear about a crash where theres been spectators injured, the only track i can think of that might be an issue is Bathurst with everyone camping out on the mountain

[Falcon500]

Well til 81 at bathurst the track only had a smallfence seperating it from the track...the reason why this was added was DickJohnsons THE ROCK incident where a holden fan rolled a rock in front of 1st placed Dick Johnson....
Well it used tobe quite common in NASCAR in the 70s...but other then that i only really heard of incidents at Rallys...because of bad luck and stupid spectators....hell even last rally they had to close off one stage ebcause the spectators wouldent move away....

[fpv_gtho]

well i suppose it was about that time also that DJ came out of one of the last corners before forests elbow, clipped the armco with the rear end of his car and went skidding into the trees. i think it was during the 70's, i think it was Moffat that whilst going up the mountain slid off track and his car rolled a couple of times, ive seen some footage of it. both of these and the rock incident would have had the officials rethinking the safety of the track, and surely the last couple of years with the plastic bags could have had then thinkign once again

alot of the rallyies, it looks like the only things holding the spectators back are small fences made of star pickets and that red-orange plastic stuff theyve always got at construction sites, but WRC have some pretty weird crashes as well, like cars rolling over through a turn because they missed the apex a particular way, or they end up face first into a tree so i'd be careful when the cars come roaring past. the hard bit is you cant tell whether theyre spinning out or not until its too late because of how WRC races are

[SlickHolden]

Watch out for them kangaroos also hop skip jump into a car :eek:

[motorsportnerd]

In the 1998 Bathurst 1000 (for Super Tourers, not V8s), Cameron McLean was on a hot lap in qualifying in the BMW 320i. He came around Forest's Elbow to be confronted by a kangaroo hopping across in front him. He reported that it was "large, red, male".

[fpv_gtho]

ive seen some footage of a kangaroo bouncing across the track at bathurst, but i think it was another time from the 1998 super tourers incident, i dont think it was all that long ago

[SlickHolden]

ive seen some footage of a kangaroo bouncing across the track at bathurst, but i think it was another time from the 1998 super tourers incident, i dont think it was all that long ago

Like you said about the WRC i can't watch it can't stand to see the people unprotected like that in harms way i turn it off before i see someone get killed :eek:

[fpv_gtho]

well part of the attraction of being a WRC spectator is your right alongside the cars sort of thing, and as the cars go past a big puddle of mud theres a high chance of you getting sprayed with it as well. its not exactly something i'd go for, i'd much rather be up close to a V8 Supercar going through the rev range, but europe is alot different to australia in many ways. i would lke to hope though that the organisers of WRC have sufficient safety protocols for such incidents where the cars go off track into the spectator areas, or at least the spectators have been given some instruction on how to react to a car spinning out towards them

[Falcon500]

In the 1998 Bathurst 1000 (for Super Tourers, not V8s), Cameron McLean was on a hot lap in qualifying in the BMW 320i. He came around Forest's Elbow to be confronted by a kangaroo hopping across in front him. He reported that it was "large, red, male".
Also in 02 steve ellery had a kangeroo bounce around in front of him...and then there was Dick Johnsons THE DOG incident.....Im wondering if there will ever be a THE SKAIFE incident:rolleyes:
I have been to one rally and i spent the entier time in a placea felt safe....up a tree! but when i noticed a rally car thumping a tree and makeing drop bears live up too their names i didnt feel so safe...ididnt move i was slightly off track and the view was great and i could see a good majority with my grandfathers Tasco (rifel scope ;) )

[fpv_gtho]

its probably the 02 incident i was thinking about before, it was a bit of an eventful year with skaife taking his 3rd victory in a row, the cars collecting bags and yeah the kangaroo getting in on the action

[Falcon500]

And 02 wasnt a bad year for ford either depsite popular belife...despite the fact there where less round wins by a ford then in 01 it was the same ford driver (ambrose who came third) rather then a trade off between Johnson(Steve) and Radasich (Junior at 6th and radasich lower top 10) it just looked bad 3rd at the end of the year isnt bad in my books....anyone who can get a top 10 deserves the large sums of money its worth at the end of the year if you ask me....
last year was quiteincident free the most note worth incident was skaife getting recalled over a flapping door...and we still havent heard the end of it(likewise i fail to hear the end of lowndes/crompton over heating with 1 bag) well its turning out to be a rather mixed bag in the championship next race is in like 2 weeksinst it?

[fpv_gtho]

in 2002, ambrose i think finished only about 20 points ahead of bright so it was only down to his final round whitewash. he managed to get into the top 3 plenty of other times as well, but the car just didnt have the speed over a whole race to be competitive with skaife, and then theres also the fact ambrose and skaife in 2002 went blow for blow with pole positions at 5 each.

[Falcon500]

Ambrose always had speed in 02...his weakness then was starting...still a weakness and pit stops (which was a crew stuff up not him) also his arch rival also hadmore money and a car that was just as fast if not faster....if bad luck didnt prevail somuch both lowndes and ambrose would have been doing much better much earlier...but thats a story shared by most of the field....

[fpv_gtho]

well lowndes was expected to be better, hes been racing V8's since 1995 and most people would say hes past his peak from when he was still at HRT. ambrose is now in his 4th year in the V8's now and the pitstops and starts are getting considerably better, but it seems that out of the whole field, the best pitstops and starts are actually going to Ingall who regularly produces a blinder of a pitstop or a start that makes you look twice. he probably keeps colin bond on his toes when it comes to giving out drive through penalties

[Falcon500]

Lowndes done good in a few rounds with a new team and dropped back to a top 10 team....it happened to him last year as well...expectations are a terrible thing but they are even worse when they dont meet your own! as lowndes also found out being palmed off a few times....
Prehaps its that but personally i think his personality wich is as corse as 80 grit sand paper wouldent help either :)

[fpv_gtho]

well not meeting your own personal goals must be one of the hardest things to swallow, but i think lowndes personally believes in himself and his abilities, its just the mechanical package being a let down. whether hes realised lately that he cant do the same things at FPR that he did at HRT is a possibility, im only saying this because when bathurst finished last year he was genuinely surrpised with what he had achieved and seto was even more ecstatic

[Falcon500]

Lowndes has all rights to beleive in himself....shit ksaifes a good driver and in exactly the same package (well incredabily similar i dont believe skaife would of gotten an inferior "test mule" like most 2nd drivers...especailly when TWR was well known to be testing overseas) and he ate skaife reguarly...and if im rebering correctly the only team orders ever used by HRT where on jason bright.....
at the enduros if you have a decent car and a cool head youll go far! look at old thexton...the cas are good...but are let down by bad luck...poor decisions...and a lackof development....i found out during thelast race the FPR have not done any testing on their cars yet! Setos not in hisBA yet (next round) and they want to fast track thier development by testing the cars at the same time....its too late to challange for the titel and scacely fora top 10 but they are in a goodposition to have a great development year they wanted....rember there are ways and means aroudn things...seems they where full on when they said theyll takeit easy and learn about the cars....strange if you ask me...they seemlikea gaint black hole in fords budget at the moment wanting to hang off...

[fpv_gtho]

well i suppose if you get out of the first round with no points, and then see you dont have consistent pace you shouldnt waste your time holding everyone else up, but use the different races to get data on the car. Lowndes and FPR might be set in 2005 to be on a competitive only for like 2006 for AVESCO to change the formula to something where theres less downforce and no pit to car telemetry like theyre discussing now. that would be a pretty big blow

[motorsportnerd]

its probably the 02 incident i was thinking about before, it was a bit of an eventful year with skaife taking his 3rd victory in a row, the cars collecting bags and yeah the kangaroo getting in on the action

Sorry to have to correct you, mate, but the 02 win was Skaife's 2nd in a row (01 with Longhurst, 02 with Richards), not his third. Skaife's other two wins were '91 and the infamous '92 win.

And Falc, I've heard about Johnson and the rock, but Johnson and the dog incident is new to me. Do fill us in.

[fpv_gtho]

lol i was worried that might have been the case, aw well, thanks for correcting me anyway

[Falcon500]

And Falc, I've heard about Johnson and the rock, but Johnson and the dog incident is new to me. Do fill us in. THE DOG a much less known incident but drew attention at the time because there was a dog on the track...Dick had a massive correction while overtakeing and the helicopter pciked up why there wa s alittle brown dog running on the road...more then likly scared shitless...ive only ever seen footage of this once but the large excursion off the track and the dirt thatDJ pulled back with him was also memrable (good save) but only seeing this once and seeing how it didnt get on his DVD i cant rember excatly im under the impression it was either the XE or more likly the mustang this happened in...