McLaren:"The SLR will get a succesor."

[jorismo]

McLaren thinks that, when the production of the SLR stops, there will be made a new supersportscar at the Woking factory.

McLaren is working on convincing Mercedes to, after the production of the SLR, make a new supersportscar with them. Managing Director Martin Whitmarsh:"Mercedes is more interested in McLaren than ever before. They are planning to stay active in F1 on the long term and they are also interested in the co-production of streetcars. It's more certain than ever that there will be designed and build streetcars at our factory in Woking."

(Translated from www.autoweek.nl)

[Street_Dreamer]

WOOOOO! good news to everyone who loves McLaren and Mercedes :D

[Piacki_117]

yeah, good news. I just hope the future McLaren-Mercedes wil be better than the first one.

[Cotterik]

why the hell do they need mercedes to make a supersportscar. they could easily do it on their own and get more credit.

[jorismo]

why the hell do they need mercedes to make a supersportscar. they could easily do it on their own and get more credit.

I think that Mercedes can sell it better for them. And you need a hell load of money to make such a car. I think they want the security of not getting in money trouble.

[Cotterik]

but the let down is, nobody would know that its a mclaren if there wasnt a badge that said so.

[MrKipling]

PLEASE CREDIT YOUR SOURCES!

We can only hope that the widespread criticism that the SLR 'didn't know what it was supposed to be' sunk in, and they'll let McLaren have a slightly freer reign.

I want to see the Merc 6.3L V8, supercharged in a tiny McLaren F1/Carrera GT style all carbon body/chassis. Mid engined with a paddle shift manual box - they should go for the full-on tenuous F1 link, maybe make it weigh 600kg!

[lightweight]

The rumour going around for a few years was that McLaren was planning a 360 Modena rival. But a few months ago the rumour said that the plan was cancelled.

My opinion is that business-wise they should go for a 430 rival or go against the Veyron. The 500-700 hp supercar engines of Mercedes-Benz are destined for Pagani. I don't think that they want to rival Pagani. So, they will either go for F430 territory or build a 700+ lightweight car that will out-accelerate everything on the planet.

Personally I would prefer the second one.

[MrKipling]

Me too, although I do see the logic in going for a 430 replica. Having said that, McLaren could very easily go for any price bracket and any type of sportscar, their brand 'kudos' is enormous.

http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2125

[lightweight]

I want to see the Merc 6.3L V8, supercharged - maybe make it weigh 600kg!

I think that it would be better if the engine was a high-revving naturally aspirated unit. It will probably be supplied by Mercedes-Benz. The question is how are they going to extract more than 100 hp/lt from an engine designed to be supercharged.

It is very difficult to make it 600 kg. Even 1200 will be very difficult. Making it compact like the McLaren F1 will help...

[MrKipling]

Oh, I realise 600 kilos is fantasy really! I was thinking along the lines of a tiny car - 4 less cylinders than an F1 if you go 'Formula 1 V8'.

The 6.3 revs very highly, I think it's meant to replace the supercharged V8 so 500bhp would be easy - you could push that to 650 without too many problems I would have thought.

[:Exige:]

Take in mind that the McLaren F1 weighed over a tonne and got great figures from 621bhp. Power-to-weight isn't everything ... it just helps greatly :D

[jorismo]

PLEASE CREDIT YOUR SOURCES!

I never copied an article. I saw a dutch articel and I (partly) translated it. It's on www.autoweek.nl if you wanna see it...

[F1_Master]

Cool, but in the end, it's McLaren building it and Mercedes selling it.

Mercedes pays McLaren to build the car which may be easier. Mercedes knows McLaren has success in the supercar area, so choosing them for the ol' SLR project was probably one of the best things to do.

[Rockefella]

I never copied an article. I saw a dutch articel and I (partly) translated it. It's on www.autoweek.nl if you wanna see it...
The point is, you got your opinion from a credible source, so the source should be cited for their sake.

[coolieman1220]

u kno what, mclaren should make something better. like a new mclaren F1. team up wit BMW or porsche. who knos. the possibilities are endless.

[ruim20]

Just build the F1 again with current technology!

i'd just bet: The next McLaren/Merc will be hevier and more powerfull - "we are planing on beating the 2 ton barrier!" :D

[F1_Master]

Why? They'll most likely risk spending money to do it again, and it was Murray's idea and of course, Murray no longer works with McLaren.

Dennis is too focused on Formula 1 anyways.

[ruim20]

Then they'll just make another merc with carbon... that's what they did with the SLR...

[rev440]

Hopfully its more mclaren then mercedes.

[dimlight]

A bit more Mclaren and a little bit less Mercedes.

[fpv_gtho]

I reckon they should just pick the engine they want and see how small they can package everything, then see how it all comes up. It cant look too bad surely.

[denisvn93]

Could it be the McLaren P8?

[FERRARI F60]

Well fellas i can honestly say that this new Mercedes-Mclaren super-sportcar will be a completely new car! I can tell you now that the engine is a new high revving twin-turbo V-8 that is being bench tested revving at 10,000 rpm, and will put out about 700+-800+ bhp and 600+-700+torque! the car will be a true super- sportscar with a mid-engine layout, it wll seat 2! The reason why why we chose the high revving V-8 is because Pagani will use a new state of tune V-12 for the C9 supercar (Zonda C12 successor)! Both projects are pretty cool, the Pagani C9 should be seen very soon, as well as the much rumoured Baby Pagani, which will use a new state of tune version of the AMG V-8, which it will not rev as high as the Mercedes-Mclaren, and will be naturally aspirated! I work for AMG engineering the engines, and i'm very close to the projects myself! The Mercedes-Mclaren project can be thought of as a new CLK-GTR, adn i'm to understand that the P8 project is still in the air right now with Mclaren planning on having Merceds back them on that too!

[fpv_gtho]

I can tell you now that the engine is a new high revving twin-turbo V-8 that is being bench tested revving at 10,000 rpm, and will put out about 700+-800+ bhp and 600+-700+torque!

What is it, a 2L?? Thats pathetic!! Any decent TTV8 that ALSO revs to 10K rpm would be topping 1000hp

[FERRARI F60]

NO, the engine will be around the 6.3 liters displacement in the other AMG engines! The engine was being tested for the high revvs for endurence, the engine will not make the 1000 bhp, because the engine was made for higher revvs then the Bugatti Veyrons engine! Think of it this way, i high revving engine with great horsepower, will beat the pants off of a heavy car with alot of horsepower that never makes it to the ground! The mercedes-Mclaren will be a super-sportscar, that will probably beat the Veyron, because the car will weight close to 2500 pounds, with rwd, and a F1 double clutch system that we are developing ourselves, look for a top speed of about 225-250 mph! This engine is made with more F1 technology then anyother car out right now, the pistons and cams are being developed by Ilmor Engineering which Mercedes owns also that builds the F1 engines for Mclaren-Mercedes!We are working on both cars right now, namely the Pagani C9 and the Mercedes-Mclaren, whcih the C9 will be very closesly related to the Chrysler me 4-12 concept, and we don't want to compete with another company that is a great partner to us either!

[fpv_gtho]

NO, the engine will be around the 6.3 liters displacement in the other AMG engines! The engine was being tested for the high revvs for endurence,

So +/- 6.3L, lets guess 8000rpm, twin turbo and ONLY 800hp?


the pistons and cams are being developed by Ilmor Engineering

Maybe that explains the over engineering. God nows we've seen their last F1 engines. :D :D

[FERRARI F60]

LOL! Thats true, but now that there all under one roof at Woking, England we have improved!Lets face it, last year Kimi was a real contender for the title!With Juan Pablo Montoya here till the end of this season we are good! Plus everthing is working in our favor this year, F1 is now using V-8's, which we can make more reliable, because there is minor work to do with them! The Mercedes-Mclaren project is moving ahead greatly, the engine is revving high, so by the time ther car is ready, the engine will use all those revvs! Ilmor Engineering is a great company, it's just they weren't making the parts to our standards over the past couple of years, but we have it right now, you'll see!

[Coventrysucks]

F1 is now using V-8's, which we can make more reliable, because there is minor work to do with them! The Mercedes-Mclaren project is moving ahead greatly, the engine is revving high, so by the time ther car is ready, the engine will use all those revvs! Ilmor Engineering is a great company, it's just they weren't making the parts to our standards over the past couple of years, but we have it right now, you'll see!

So, all these stories about the new Mercedes V8 being as crap as ever then...

Running at only 18,500 revs when everyone else is at 20,000, vibration problems, problems with cylinder temperatures.

I've already seen pictures of the MP4-21 on the back of a truck, and the mechanics spraying fire extinguishers all over the engine bay...


Anyway back to the topic of the thread:

Of course McLaren will build more road cars, they have a dedicated factory and workforce, which they need to keep occupied.

Of course it will have many links to Mercedes - DaimlerChrysler owns 40% of McLaren, so they can't go and use BMW engines again, can they?

[NuclearCrap]

NO, the engine will be around the 6.3 liters displacement in the other AMG engines! The engine was being tested for the high revvs for endurence, the engine will not make the 1000 bhp, because the engine was made for higher revvs then the Bugatti Veyrons engine! Think of it this way, i high revving engine with great horsepower, will beat the pants off of a heavy car with alot of horsepower that never makes it to the ground! The mercedes-Mclaren will be a super-sportscar, that will probably beat the Veyron, because the car will weight close to 2500 pounds, with rwd, and a F1 double clutch system that we are developing ourselves, look for a top speed of about 225-250 mph! This engine is made with more F1 technology then anyother car out right now, the pistons and cams are being developed by Ilmor Engineering which Mercedes owns also that builds the F1 engines for Mclaren-Mercedes!We are working on both cars right now, namely the Pagani C9 and the Mercedes-Mclaren, whcih the C9 will be very closesly related to the Chrysler me 4-12 concept, and we don't want to compete with another company that is a great partner to us either!

The Veyron was built with such weight not just for luxury, but also to keep it stable at 200+ mph. Why did you think they made a 2nd key? It's there to adjust the aerodynamic profile so it can go faster. I don't think a RWD weighing only about 2.5k lbs would be stable at high speed. The Veyron has that much power because it needs that power to push it to the promised top speed. With 800hp on you 2.5k lbs car compared to the Veyron with 987hp pushing over 2k kg, your car seems to have a better power-to-weight ratio, but I don't think it'll be as stable as a heavier Veyron with AWD, unless you're planning on giving it as much downforce as a F1 has. Such a car would be like the Ferrari FXX on the streets, and 99% of the owners will avoid going too fast. I remember when CAR interviewed Jay Kay, he told CAR that he never wants to go any faster than 250km/h, but when CAR tested the Veyron, they were pulling 212mph on German highways easily and they claimed the Veyron was very stable even at that speed. Think about it, Bugatti could've spent less money on a car similar to the one you're describing, but they don't want to scare the driver. Speaking of losing big money, they did it because they wanna prove it to the world that the promised performances is possible for the most luxurious grand tourer. I bet your boss won't sacrifice so much money to do something like this.

[jorismo]

The point is, you got your opinion from a credible source, so the source should be cited for their sake.

Ok, my bad... Will never happen again :)

[MrKipling]

NO, the engine will be around the 6.3 liters displacement in the other AMG engines! The engine was being tested for the high revvs for endurence, the engine will not make the 1000 bhp, because the engine was made for higher revvs then the Bugatti Veyrons engine! Think of it this way, i high revving engine with great horsepower, will beat the pants off of a heavy car with alot of horsepower that never makes it to the ground! The mercedes-Mclaren will be a super-sportscar, that will probably beat the Veyron, because the car will weight close to 2500 pounds, with rwd, and a F1 double clutch system that we are developing ourselves, look for a top speed of about 225-250 mph! This engine is made with more F1 technology then anyother car out right now, the pistons and cams are being developed by Ilmor Engineering which Mercedes owns also that builds the F1 engines for Mclaren-Mercedes!We are working on both cars right now, namely the Pagani C9 and the Mercedes-Mclaren, whcih the C9 will be very closesly related to the Chrysler me 4-12 concept, and we don't want to compete with another company that is a great partner to us either!

Why bother posting what is quite clearly conjecture as fact?

What is an 'F1 double clutch system'? I didn't know F1 cars had double clutches. Oh yeah, they don't.

Oh yeah, and Mercedes don't own Ilmor any longer.

Also, you certainly don't work for either of them, I'm pretty sure Mercedes make sure there employees (indirect or otherwise) don't blab plans of forthcoming top secret super car projects on internet forums!

[Quentin]

The pagani engine motor is an amg engine, but it is modified for the pagani. It isn't stock. So, I think McLaren probably could make a supercar without rival Pagani. Moreover, Pagani is an artisan, not a big manufacturer like mercedes. And, if you think that mercedes don't want to rival pagani, what is about the SLR?

[FERRARI F60]

I do very much work for AMG, and yes, Mercedes does own Ilmor Engineering! the Veyron is not a real supercar, and it's not built on the principal of luxury, it was built as the ultimate supercar, which it has a great speed and great times, but the car isn't what people say it is, the car doesn't go the 253 mph you pay for unless you call the factory works team to go to the track! Pagani and Mercedes, don't compete in the same market with each other, the Pagani is in a class all it's own, much like B. engineering's Edonis, Ascari's KZ1, Laraki Fulgura, Spyker's C8 and 12, amoungst others in the small supercar business! A F1 double clutch, is a F1 gearbox with a double clutch system added to the transmission, everyone knows that F1 doesn't us that, it's only for the street cars! AMG knows it's common knowledge about a new supercar from Mclaren to compete with the next wave of supercars from BMW, Porsche, Ferrari, Lamborghini, and others, we've just kept so much hush about the projects! The engines we use for Pagani aren't tuned by Pagani, the engines are made here by AMG, and we tune the engine to his specs! Mercedes- Mclaren knows all to well about the next wave of supercars, and we are thinking about everything that we have to do to make the next wave of cars better then before! AMG doesn't know what i tell anyone, about new projects, thats why i can do this! Mercedes doens't control what we know and tell people, why do you think everything is so indirect? like i would tell you everything about the projects, the only thing they tell us not to do is post pictures of the projects which there are clay models of a couple new projects that AMG is working on with a couple other companies within the Mercedes Car Group including the new Mercedes-Mclaren projects, which there are more then one, namely the projects P8 and P10 (SLR successor)! The plan was once to make Mclaren a english Ferrari with a total of 4 cars in the line up the P7(SLR), P8( 430 rival), P9( 612 rival), and P10(SLR successor) with on going talks about the P11( F60, Murcielago successor, Porsche Carrera GT successor, BMW Z10 , and even the Bugatti Veyron successor rival) far along in talks, and yes there will be seperate cars this time to compete with different markets! Which from the clay models i've seen first hand they are going to be great cars in the future of Mclaren-Mercedes!

[Lagonda]

Oh yeah, and Mercedes don't own Ilmor any longer.
No Mercedes did actually buy Ilmor completely in 2005 but the Special Projects department was split from company and became a new company, on it's own, that uses the Ilmor Engineering Ltd name.
The original Ilmore is now called Mercedes-Benz HighPerformanceEngines Ltd.

As for Ferrari F60. I hope for you, if it's true what you're saying, that you didn't sign some sort of NDA.

[FERRARI F60]

I know what your talking about with Ilmor, but i had to clear that up with this one guy on here, that thinks he knows Mercedes Car Group! i'm not under any type of contract like that, I'm just stating what everyone thinks and should know by now is true! the point of me coming on here telling everyone what has been said is true, is because as many people believe it, there are always people that discredit what is fact and fiction! Mercedes-Mclaren are working a alot of new projects together and we here at AMG are in the center of it all, we develop, and design engines, as well as completely new engines for other cars! Like i could easily tell you what Mercedes has planned for Maybach in the engine department, as well as the new bodies that are coming very soon! Yes, these cars include the Maybach Exelero! i'm working on the new engines right now, because Maybach will get a new V-12 with the new bodies, as well as it being joined by a new Baby Myabach which will use a new small displacement V-8 and we are working on a V-10! i was here when the Maybach project was started and they were considering a V-16, V-18, a V-20, and a V-24, and you see that went with what was more affordable namely the twin turbo V-12 form the Mercedes S 600, but with the new Maybach engine the car will be more classy and more elegent, it will be faster for sure, since we are making the engine ourselves! The Mercedes car Group is very happy with the way things are right now, and we here at AMG are more then happy to put the power back into Mercedes as is Chrysler groups SRT! we have alot working right now, but i'm sure going to tell you now, there will be no more V-6 AMG models, nor superchargers, we are looking into turbocharging the engines as well as high displacement which is what makes use unique to other high end luxury car performence divisions like Audi's Quattro, BMW's M Division, Cadillac's V series, amoungst others! And I want this to be very clear we aren't going to stop there with the new projects!

[henk4]

why would anybody working for AMG choose Ferrari F60 as a user name? To confuse his employer?:)

[Lagonda]

why would anybody working for AMG choose Ferrari F60 as a user name? To confuse his employer?:)
I have a sneaking suspicion that he and BIGWORM_25 are the same. Call it a hunch.

[Cyco]

with rwd, and a F1 double clutch system that we are developing ourselves

Why work on a double clutch system that takes ~80-270ms to shift when you can licence (or steal, like the F1 teams) the ZeroShift system that will shift in ~15ms?

[:Exige:]

The Mercedes-Mclaren project can be thought of as a new CLK-GTR
What?! It is nothing like a new CLK-GTR. The CLK-GTR was built for homolgation purposes; something which doesn't happen anymore (much :)). And another difference ... from what you are saying and what I've read, this isn't going to be a CLK variant ... or a variant of any current model. The only similarities I can make out is that it will have a Mercedes engine and lots of power ... but there are loads of cars like that.

[MrKipling]

The only similarities I can make out is that it will have a Mercedes engine and lots of power ... but there are loads of cars like that.

Or too many cars like that!

Apparently all the racing CLK-GTRs were crushed after The Le Mans Incident. I do love that car but apparently it was an utter pig to drive.

Also, if Mercedes bought Ilmor engineering (I'm guessing intellectual rights to current technologies) and Ilmor himself went off and set up a new Ilmor Engineering, Mercedes don't own Ilmor anymore! All they 'bought' from him will have been his employees and his non-involvment in F1 for a couple of years.

[spi-ti-tout]

Whatever it is, I just hope it's good.

Because TBH I have a very strong belief (I'm cariligious, you see) that if a company makes a really really really good car and it's just amazing then it should be left the way it is, for people to remember. Two things in my mind about making "successors", as they say, is that for one if you use the same stuff that you did on the original then it's just another car, and two, you never know if it's going to be better than the first and if it isn't then it just ruins the whole thing. I mean a trackday version like the FXX is alright because it's just a better version for a completely different class. I think manufacturers should go for something "original" again, maybe make something different, something else that will and can be enjoyed as a car on it's own rather than just a decision taken from sales preview.

[F1_Master]

I do very much work for AMG, and yes, Mercedes does own Ilmor Engineering! the Veyron is not a real supercar, and it's not built on the principal of luxury, it was built as the ultimate supercar, which it has a great speed and great times, but the car isn't what people say it is, the car doesn't go the 253 mph you pay for unless you call the factory works team to go to the track!

Do some research.

The Veyron can hit 253Mph without Bugatti's team. It's little lock under the driver's seat that does it.

[IBrake4Rainbows]

Tell me, are there any Mercedes Benz Factories in Kansas?

Please, back up your statements with proof I can believe, Ferrari F60.

[Cadillac Imaj]

Yeah, it's just a key made from lightweight aluminium inserted into a keyhole on the door side of the driver's seat that unlocks the speed limiter of the veyron and enables it to go to 253 MPH and it'll sit 20mm lower than it's original state. Touch the brakes however, the limiter and the "Top Speed" word on the dashboard goes off and the limiter is once again back.

[Lagonda]

Or too
Also, if Mercedes bought Ilmor engineering (I'm guessing intellectual rights to current technologies) and Ilmor himself went off and set up a new Ilmor Engineering, Mercedes don't own Ilmor anymore! All they 'bought' from him will have been his employees and his non-involvment in F1 for a couple of years.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ilmor


On 1st July 2005 the company became wholly owned by Mercedes and was renamed Mercedes-Benz HighPerformanceEngines Ltd. On the same day, the small Special Projects part of the company, which since 2003 had been contracted to design and build Honda's Indy Racing League engines, split away to become a separate company, owned by Mario Illien and Roger Penske. This new company, which is totally independent of Mercedes, is once again known as Ilmor Engineering Ltd ([1]). The new Ilmor continues to support Honda's involvement in the IRL as sole engine supplier, and in 2007 Ilmor is also planning to enter MotoGP.

[F1_Master]

Yeah, it's just a key made from lightweight aluminium inserted into a keyhole on the door side of the driver's seat that unlocks the speed limiter of the veyron and enables it to go to 253 MPH and it'll sit 20mm lower than it's original state. Touch the brakes however, the limiter and the "Top Speed" word on the dashboard goes off and the limiter is once again back.
From what I read, you have to be very careful with the wheel as well. If the wheel is turned at a certain angle either way, the car will slow down and the limited will kick in again.

[RazaBlade]

Well, even in 'normal config' itll still do 230mph! Thats mental!!! The 253mph setting is probably just so owners can say "Ive been to its max".

[BLAGER]

The rumour going around for a few years was that McLaren was planning a 360 Modena rival. But a few months ago the rumour said that the plan was cancelled.

My opinion is that business-wise they should go for a 430 rival or go against the Veyron. The 500-700 hp supercar engines of Mercedes-Benz are destined for Pagani. I don't think that they want to rival Pagani. So, they will either go for F430 territory or build a 700+ lightweight car that will out-accelerate everything on the planet.

Personally I would prefer the second one.
JUST LOOK AT MY AVATAR:D

[Guest]

Yeah, it's just a key made from lightweight aluminium inserted into a keyhole on the door side of the driver's seat that unlocks the speed limiter of the veyron and enables it to go to 253 MPH and it'll sit 20mm lower than it's original state. Touch the brakes however, the limiter and the "Top Speed" word on the dashboard goes off and the limiter is once again back.isnt thelimiter imposed by the spoilers? i just thought they generated so much drag that it could only go 230 mph

[ZeTurbo]

Whatver car they come up with, Im 100% sure Gordonm murray wont have anything to do with it, and that my friends... is a BIG turn off.

I cant even begin to imagine how the SLR would have turned out with out him.

[Esperante]

HOPEFULLY, extremely hopefully, mind you, this 'sucessor' will be the ME412.

[MrKipling]

On 1st July 2005 the company became wholly owned by Mercedes and was renamed Mercedes-Benz HighPerformanceEngines Ltd. On the same day, the small Special Projects part of the company, which since 2003 had been contracted to design and build Honda's Indy Racing League engines, split away to become a separate company, owned by Mario Illien and Roger Penske. This new company, which is totally independent of Mercedes, is once again known as Ilmor Engineering Ltd ([1]). The new Ilmor continues to support Honda's involvement in the IRL as sole engine supplier, and in 2007 Ilmor is also planning to enter MotoGP.

Exactly my point: if Illien isn't there, the don't own Ilmor!

Oh the factoru do have something to do with your top speed run - I believe they send you a new set of wheels and tyres F.O.C. if you let them know you're gonna go for it.

[ruim20]

Why work on a double clutch system that takes ~80-270ms to shift when you can licence (or steal, like the F1 teams) the ZeroShift system that will shift in ~15ms?

Easy, becouse a F1 gearbox is made for one weekend and most of us would like to drive our cars a bit longer :)

Also the DSGs from the VW group are awsome, developed in DTM with the Audi Quattro, and they are a lot faster then 80ms, less then 25ms. If not imediate having the next gear already engage, it's only a matter of losening one clutch and griping the other one. Best Gearbox out ther IMO.

[2ndclasscitizen]

isn't the Veyron's DSG box designed and built by Riccardo? how different is it to the normal VAG DSG box, apart from being exceptionally strong?

[ruim20]

isn't the Veyron's DSG box designed and built by Riccardo? how different is it to the normal VAG DSG box, apart from being exceptionally strong?

Probably just that and the cooling system... i guess

[Cyco]

Easy, becouse a F1 gearbox is made for one weekend and most of us would like to drive our cars a bit longer

Also the DSGs from the VW group are awsome, developed in DTM with the Audi Quattro, and they are a lot faster then 80ms, less then 25ms. If not imediate having the next gear already engage, it's only a matter of losening one clutch and griping the other one. Best Gearbox out ther IMO.

The ZeroShift (http://www.zeroshift.com/) system is looking to be the fastest and smoothest way to change gears.

I'm not sure where you got the 25ms shift time from for the DSG 'box, I personally havn't seen that claim and the times are extreemly variable - if the computer guesses right its fast, if it guesses incorrectly its pretty slow.

[FERRARI F60]

Well fellas it is very true, that Mercedes-Mclaren are working on on road cars, but why steal a gearbox from the F1 team when it won't be fit for the streets! to clear up one of the comments made about me, I have nothing to do with the other name you guys named off! Also, i chose the name Ferrari F60 for a reason, we here at AMG are fully on notice of Ferrari's next supercar, and that is where the Mercedes-Mclaren P-11 project is being worked on now for! and to tell you all the truth racing does still homoligations, look at the Maserti MC-12 racer, why do you think they made cars to be sold, and not just any number but 25 cars! i never said the car was related to any of the model line up out right now! i said it's like a new CLK-GTR, the car is (mid)mid-engined and it will be a true super car, namely low weight, powerful engine, and very stable at high speeds! the Bugatti Veyron set a standard that few cars even car to follow, think about how long it took for the car to be finished and really stable at high speeds? Think about what Mclaren is known for, the worlds first 240 mph supercar, and it was rwd, and very stable at high speeds, Mercedes-Mclaren aren't goign for the crown of fastest car, ti is making the market hader on Bugatti and other companies that are aiming for the crown!, look at Ferrari, it would be nothing for them to make a car that hits 250+ mph, just as it is for Mclaren, the point is they already held the crown for 10+ years, so what do they have to prove! The news out of Modena, Italy is that the 1221 project MF1 will hit 270+ mph, and under cut the Bugatti Veyrons price! it would be nothing for companies in F1 to do cars like the race car, but why? we make money off the fact that people will buy it if we have some credit to it, the true appeal of the Veyron is the rarety, the price, and the fact that it can claim the fastest car on the planet for now? We here at AMG have proven that we can make a car that can compete with the Veyron, think about it, the Chrysler ME 4-12 used an AMG quad turbo engine, the Maybach Exelero used a early twin turbo Maybach engine developed by AMG both cars were show pieces, think about this the Chyrsler has 850 bhp, and 850 torque, the Exelero has 750bhp and 746 torque, now how hard would it be for us at AMG to make an engine that can make more then 1000bhp and 1000 torque! You guys better check your facts first haven't we proven ourselves to the world? With supercar companies getting engines from us, we can make all that happen, look at Lotec's Sirius, and C1000 are those not Mercedes engines in those cars, isn't there AMG engines in Pagani's Zondas, as well as Laraki's Fulgura and Borac!

[Rockefella]

Well fellas it is very true, that Mercedes-Mclaren are working on on road cars, but why steal a gearbox from the F1 team when it won't be fit for the streets! to clear up one of the comments made about me, I have nothing to do with the other name you guys named off! Also, i chose the name Ferrari F60 for a reason, we here at AMG are fully on notice of Ferrari's next supercar, and that is where the Mercedes-Mclaren P-11 project is being worked on now for! and to tell you all the truth racing does still homoligations, look at the Maserti MC-12 racer, why do you think they made cars to be sold, and not just any number but 25 cars! i never said the car was related to any of the model line up out right now! i said it's like a new CLK-GTR, the car is (mid)mid-engined and it will be a true super car, namely low weight, powerful engine, and very stable at high speeds! the Bugatti Veyron set a standard that few cars even car to follow, think about how long it took for the car to be finished and really stable at high speeds? Think about what Mclaren is known for, the worlds first 240 mph supercar, and it was rwd, and very stable at high speeds, Mercedes-Mclaren aren't goign for the crown of fastest car, ti is making the market hader on Bugatti and other companies that are aiming for the crown!, look at Ferrari, it would be nothing for them to make a car that hits 250+ mph, just as it is for Mclaren, the point is they already held the crown for 10+ years, so what do they have to prove! The news out of Modena, Italy is that the 1221 project MF1 will hit 270+ mph, and under cut the Bugatti Veyrons price! it would be nothing for companies in F1 to do cars like the race car, but why? we make money off the fact that people will buy it if we have some credit to it, the true appeal of the Veyron is the rarety, the price, and the fact that it can claim the fastest car on the planet for now? We here at AMG have proven that we can make a car that can compete with the Veyron, think about it, the Chrysler ME 4-12 used an AMG quad turbo engine, the Maybach Exelero used a early twin turbo Maybach engine developed by AMG both cars were show pieces, think about this the Chyrsler has 850 bhp, and 850 torque, the Exelero has 750bhp and 746 torque, now how hard would it be for us at AMG to make an engine that can make more then 1000bhp and 1000 torque! You guys better check your facts first haven't we proven ourselves to the world? With supercar companies getting engines from us, we can make all that happen, look at Lotec's Sirius, and C1000 are those not Mercedes engines in those cars, isn't there AMG engines in Pagani's Zondas, as well as Laraki's Fulgura and Borac!
I doubt that you work for AMG personally, considering you rant like a teenage fanboy.

[FERRARI F60]

I very much do work for AMG, I have missed alot of the conversations on here, and had alot to clear up, I'm a fan of super cars and that is what I see personally! I'm here posting news for you all to read, and I'm very much trying to give you all the news, but the good thing is that most won't believe it and it makes things better when I prove them wrong!

[Rockefella]

I very much do work for AMG, I have missed alot of the conversations on here, and had alot to clear up, I'm a fan of super cars and that is what I see personally! I'm here posting news for you all to read, and I'm very much trying to give you all the news, but the good thing is that most won't believe it and it makes things better when I prove them wrong!
If things will be better with proof, then perhaps you should post some.

[2ndclasscitizen]

interesting point, wasn't the project name for the Enzo the F60? And if you say that "AMG is aware of what's going on at Ferrari", has F1 tech theft reached road cars as well?

or are you just spewing crap?

[Cyco]

why steal a gearbox from the F1 team when it won't be fit for the streets!

Because the F1 team stole the technology from something developed for the road.....

Your writing, knowledge and url don't exactly inspire us to believe your claims

[fpv_gtho]

interesting point, wasn't the project name for the Enzo the F60? And if you say that "AMG is aware of what's going on at Ferrari", has F1 tech theft reached road cars as well?

or are you just spewing crap?

I thought it was FX, with the expectation of being called the F60, but now theres supposedly an FXX planned and another F60..So i havent got a clue whats going on exactly..

[MrKipling]

The Enzo was F60 initially (F40 - forty years, F50 - fifty years, Enzo - 60 years)

2ndClass, I think 'spewing crap' is more accurate. Why in god's name would McLaren (or AMG for that matter) be aware of what Ferrari are doing?!

Why in god's name do you feel that you have to lie about your job on an internet forum you sad f*cker?! We couldn't care less if you worked for McDonalds, let alone AMG!

[fpv_gtho]

Its common for rival manufacturers to be in contact with each other regarding their future plans, but its usually for mainstream manufacturers. Holden and Ford keep each other informed over the basics ive been told, but if AMG knew what Ferrari were up to, thats suspect. BMW i might believe, Ferrari no...

[McReis]

I very much do work for AMG, I have missed alot of the conversations on here, and had alot to clear up, I'm a fan of super cars and that is what I see personally! I'm here posting news for you all to read, and I'm very much trying to give you all the news, but the good thing is that most won't believe it and it makes things better when I prove them wrong!


For someone who is probably an engineer, and one involved in such huge projects that include cooperation with a British company like McLaren, you write english too bad. It's almost impossible to follow your arguments. Your sentences are a mess and there's almost no correct punctuation. Please try to write properly so that we can understand you better. Thanks.

[Coventrysucks]

I very much do work for AMG,

So, why is your IP address saying you're in Kansas?

[F1_Master]

The Enzo was F60 initially (F40 - forty years, F50 - fifty years, Enzo - 60 years)

2ndClass, I think 'spewing crap' is more accurate. Why in god's name would McLaren (or AMG for that matter) be aware of what Ferrari are doing?!

Why in god's name do you feel that you have to lie about your job on an internet forum you sad f*cker?! We couldn't care less if you worked for McDonalds, let alone AMG!

For the last time, no it wasn't.
Setting the Enzo has the anniversary car for 2003 would make Ferrari look retarded. xxx7 is the anniversary.
F40-1987-1990-1
F50-1995-1997
F60-2007

Why would the F60 be in 2003 and only be produced that year? That's 4 years away from the next anniversary.

It's only called the F60 because Ferrari's last 2 suprcars were the F40 and F50. Magazines who reported obviously didn't realize Ferrari isn't that dumb to call it the F60.

It's the Enzo. That's it. No F60.
The F60 is to be released next year and where the claims started coming from that the FFX is it's test bed in disguise.

[MrKipling]

Its common for rival manufacturers to be in contact with each other regarding their future plans, but its usually for mainstream manufacturers. Holden and Ford keep each other informed over the basics ive been told, but if AMG knew what Ferrari were up to, thats suspect. BMW i might believe, Ferrari no...

Holden keep Ford informed because they're the same company! Only manufacturers that belong to the same group would inform each other of technical developments! I really can't see Mercedes knowing anything more about another company's upcoming project than we do, except that their hearsay might be a bit better backed up and their guesses might be a bit more accurate!

[Coventrysucks]

Holden keep Ford informed because they're the same company! Only manufacturers that belong to the same group would inform each other of technical developments! I really can't see Mercedes knowing anything more about another company's upcoming project than we do, except that their hearsay might be a bit better backed up and their guesses might be a bit more accurate!

Holden is General Motors, Ford is Ford.

That's why they are great rivals down under.

Manufacturers are always getting together to discuss things, they have meetings where they talk about markets, technologies etc.

I was fairly surprised when I heard about it, but after thinking about it, it does make a lot of sense.

You'll also be aware that there is a lot of cooperation - Ford & PSA joined up to develop the TDV6, Ford and Fiat are said to be joining up to build the new Ka and "500" on the same platform, etc, etc.

They have a lot in common; they may be rivals in sales, but they all need to keep the global markets for cars in general alive.

[FERRARI F60]

think about this, AMG is the performence arm of Mercedes-Benz! I'm from Kansas, but i now live in Germany! I believe the question was, why would Mercedes-AMG-Mclaren be interested in Ferrari's future, we are competitors on the global market, with the Mercedes-Mclaren SLR and there Ferrari Enzo! With Mclaren wanting to be an English Ferrari competitor. WHY wouldn't we be well aware of there plans?! To clear the air of Ferrari's future supercar, the Enzo was codnamed internally as the FX, the pressed named it F60, Ferrari is working on the F60 now, just as we are looking inot a competitor as well as BMW with there Z/M supercar! I believe someone commented on the fact that my english isn't proper, but who cares? you guys are upset that i'm on the inside and i'm very much telling you what i know and see everyday! Thats why i brought the news to you all, as many people will try to discedit what i say, there are others that see the facts in front of them! Now to address the other news that peopl have talked about on here, I believe I stated facts about Mercedes-AMG and our quest for powerful engines, and who can deny those facts? Ferrari is very well aware of other companies taking aim at them also! F1 has given the companies involved the ability to make a faster roadcar, as well as supercars! every true super car that ferrari has made in the past 30 years are based on racing technology, as was the Mclaren F1, the Bugatti Veyron is Volkswagens F1 team! How many companies do you guys think are going to chase the Bugatti Veyron! Ferrari, Mclaren-Mercedes see the problems already with a costly car. Why make a car that is heavy as well as costly in this day in age? Gordon Murrey laid the ground rules on a true supercar with the Mclaren F1, it was lightweight, had a great power to weight ratio, it was fast paced, ahead of it's time, and it cost alot! TVR's Peter Wheeler did it with the TVR Speed12, lightweight great power to weight ratio, ahead of it's time, and that was beyond a street car, it was a true animal thats why they never made it for the public! I'm stating facts for you all to read, not just to inform you all, but to prove all my points true! You guess must not be aware of the next wave of supercars yet, but you'll see them very soon, including the Ferrari F60, one fo the new Mclaren projects( there are 4 being talked about), the new BMW Z/M supercar, a new Lamborghini( which is being talked of right now as a competitor for the Veyron), a new Porsche supercar( come on now, do you think they got back into racing without any idea of using there ne technology for a rodacar), a new Pagani, theres talks of a Spyker using the Veyron's W-16 engine with no turbo's, Maserati and the proposed new supercar the Birdcage, as well as others upcoming projects!

[McReis]

For someone with such an important job, you spend too much time arguing with kids over the net. Why do you bother?

[FERRARI F60]

Your right, I have been spending to much time arguing with them, when we are all on here to discuss the successor to the SLR! i just had to prove some points to everyone, thats all!

[jorismo]

Btw F60, did I ever mentiond I'm actually God?

[McReis]

Btw F60, did I ever mentiond I'm actually God?


You thought you would pass unnoticed? You're definetely not from this world! :D

[FERRARI F60]

I'm not worried at all about what you have to say! Like i said i knew form the beginning that few would believe it, and thats the good thing about rumours, because when someone inside gives the news no one listens and are fools when they see it for thereselves!

[McReis]

I'm not worried at all about what you have to say! Like i said i knew form the beginning that few would believe it, and thats the good thing about rumours, because when someone inside gives the news no one listens and are fools when they see it for thereselves!

So take my advice: the next time, keep your secret. I'm not even questioning wether your saying the truth or not. I'm just saying that by comming here and telling a suposed secret that you knew few would believe, you're loosing your time and ours.

[PerfAdv]

I'm not worried at all about what you have to say! Like i said i knew form the beginning that few would believe it, and thats the good thing about rumours, because when someone inside gives the news no one listens and are fools when they see it for thereselves!
So what was the rumour? Could you restate...

[FERRARI F60]

The rumours was that Mercedes-Mclaren are working on a successor for the SLR? I'm on the inside and I'm here telling you all what I know is fact as well as true! I came on here to bring you all the news, I knew already that there would be few to believe it, but I still remain here to tell you all about the new projects! It wasn't a waste of my time, I knew that before I even sent the first reply, why keep the secret that everyone is already talking about, that makes it no secret?! I wish there was a way for me to show you all the pictures of the clay models of the projects Mclaren-Mercedes are working on! But that is the only thing that is against the rules here!

[PerfAdv]

...I wish there was a way for me to show you all the pictures of the clay models of the projects Mclaren-Mercedes are working on! But that is the only thing that is against the rules here!
Well in that case you shouldn't really want to show us pictures as this would undermine all the hard work that McLaren/Mercedes are putting into their future designs.

Find out if you can post some unique material about upcoming models. I'm sure that knowing the competition is creating something new keeps everyone on their toes. So no harm in releasing something concrete just not too detailed about spec.

[FERRARI F60]

Exactly what i believe too! We can talk about the cars, engines, and everything as long as we don't release any pictures to the public yet, they are waiting for the greenlight from Tag-Mclaren as well as the bosses at Mercedes Car Group! i mean why do you think I posted all facts about our engineering for other supercars companies, as well as upcoming cars!I mean the Ferrari F60 is a goign to be a great car, thats why I named myself that as well as knowing the competition is what we do forsy before we study the ideas and market! Know your enemy, and know what to expect from them in the car businesses is the best way to get ahead! The point is that it was a rumour that Mercedes-Mclaren are working on a new car, i brought the facts in and kept it so that very few would ever know the real facts of it all! We in the car business have to allow so much to be leaked to keep the interest of the people, without giving away all the facts!

[MrKipling]

Holden is General Motors, Ford is Ford.

That's why they are great rivals down under.


Oh yeah, I was thinking of Vauxhall.

Any road up, I just hope they do a more.... what's the word.. cohesive job this time round. They need to decide what they want to play on: the racing pedigree; or the luxury heritage. Either is fine for a supercar (I reckon) but it needs to be clear whether it's a GT or a hypercar. And it WILL fail if they put an SL55 interior like they did with the SLR - especially since the Veyron and Zonda F.

Personally I'd like them to go for the former option and make a balls out F1 car for the road. Go F50 style and have the engine as a part of the chassis and all that stuff. I don't see the point in Mercedes doing a stand-alone McLaren luxury supercar when they have stuff like the CLS AMG (612bhp?), the S65 AMG (612bhp) and, particularly the SL65 AMG. They need a 650bhp+ mid-engine Enzo/Carrera GT/Zonda rival.

[FERRARI F60]

The new car will have close to 800+ horsepower! The Pagani C9 project is the car that will be close to 700+ bhp and the baby Pagani will have close to 500 + bhp! Both will compete with Ferrari, and Lamborghini in those markets! The Mercedes-Mclaren projects are aimed at making Mclaren into an English cometitor to Ferrari on the same scale as the Ferrari F60!

[IBrake4Rainbows]

Does your employer know about your little comments here, Ferrari F60?

You do understand that you could be charged with industrial espionage for releasing this information?

you do understand that 90% of UCP.com don't really believe you?

[Cyco]

I believe someone commented on the fact that my english isn't proper, but who cares?

Anyone who wants to make themselves understood and respected cares about presentation. If you where an engineer working for me and presented this level of literacy you would be looking for other employment.


With Mclaren wanting to be an English Ferrari competitor. WHY wouldn't we be well aware of there plans?!

Because as they are keep secret. To get this information is industrial espionage - an illegal activity. We can all make educated guesses at what specs new models will have, but to say you have intimate knoweledge means laws have been broken.


a new Lamborghini( which is being talked of right now as a competitor for the Veyron)

Why would VAG spend millions of Euros to build a car to compete with a car they already have?


a new Porsche supercar

Why does Porsche need a super car they just bought a large share of VAG and therefore a large chunk of both Bugatti (supercar maker) and Lamboghini (a rival)?


Maserati and the proposed new supercar the Birdcage

Maserati has said it wont be building the birdcage, as it was a styling exercise based on a MC12 (Enzo).


I mean the Ferrari F60 is a goign to be a great car, thats why I named myself that as well as knowing the competition is what we do forsy before we study the ideas and market!

forsy???


The new car will have close to 800+ horsepower!

Is that close to 800 horsepower, or close to more than 800 horsepower? Are these English horses, or German 1s?

I'd attempt to ask more questions, but for most of it I can't understand what you are trying to tell us....

[FERRARI F60]

Porsche does own a nice chunk of VAG, but that doesn't mean they will share parts beyond the current line up! The horsepower rating is over 800 bhp! every car company knows what the competition has in store for the market, why do you think the market is so large! There is only market that is wide open right now, and that is where the Mercedes CLS fits, because it is all alone in that segament for now?! The question is what matters is that the companies are looking toward the future, and we are now looking into the super car market with Mclaren! The laws can be bent, and not broken, like as long as i don't give you all to much information about other company cars that are on the way, I have never crossed that line at all! I have made this all about Mercedes cars, and our future projects! As for the comment on the Maserati Birdcage, the concept will not be built, but they are looking into another car! I have given you all the clear future of the Mercedes-Mclaren project, just keep your eyes out for it! The future is very clear for Mercedes-Mclaren, thats why there are 4 projects under consideration right now,a dn we aren't just looking into where the future market is we are looking into markets that we aren't in yet!

[2ndclasscitizen]

every car company knows what the competition has in store for the market, why do you think the market is so large! There is only market that is wide open right now, and that is where the Mercedes CLS fits, because it is all alone in that segament for now?!
not really, people are just buying them instead of E-Classes. Sales of the E-Class fell in Australia after the CLS was introduced.



The laws can be bent, and not broken, like as long as i don't give you all to much information about other company cars that are on the way, I have never crossed that line at all!
except that if you are telling the truth (probably not), you've blabbing other compaines plans, putting on the net future model lineups and plans, nice one, numb nuts.



As for the comment on the Maserati Birdcage, the concept will not be built, but they are looking into another car!

wow, a car company in looking into building another car, what great insider info, thanks! Maserati isn't the worlds largest car company, and are working on a car built off the new AWD 159 platform, which we know of because people have actually seen it, rather being told by some knob the net.[/QUOTE]




I have given you all the clear future of the Mercedes-Mclaren project, just keep your eyes out for it! The future is very clear for Mercedes-Mclaren, thats why there are 4 projects under consideration right now,a dn we aren't just looking into where the future market is we are looking into markets that we aren't in yet!
that makes no sense at all

[Coventrysucks]

think about this, AMG is the performence arm of Mercedes-Benz! I'm from Kansas, but i now live in Germany!

Well, unless you moved very recently, 12 hrs ago for example, your IP address is insisting that you are in Kansas, and you must have flown all the way back from Germany to Kansas to post that you used to live in Kansas, but now reside in Germany...


I'm stating facts for you all to read, not just to inform you all, but to prove all my points true!

How does your telling us that the TVR Speed 12 was too "wild" for the general public prove that you work for AMG, and that you know everything about the next McLaren car?

All you are doing is posting things which are nothing more than sensible, educated guesses, wrapped up in a manner that attempts to pursuade the reader that it is fact.

It is fairly easy to guess that any supercar company; like Ferrari and McLaren will be working on new cars - they aren't going to suddenly start making fridge-freezers or plasma screen TVs are they?

It is fairly easy to guess that the new McLaren will use a Mercedes engine, and as a "technology showcase" it will use the newest, most performance orientated Mercedes engine available - the new AMG engines.

What "facts" are you telling us that haven't been published in Auto Express years ago?

I doubt AMG would really be happy to find that one of their employees were spreading supposedly "secret" information about the internet - I know that if I decided to tell you all who's getting a new superyacht and what its specification is and how many millions it's costing them I'd probably be in a lot of trouble.

Still; some people have no ethics.

Also some people seem to think that going on websites and lying is an appropriate way to behave, when really instead of being welcomed into a community of fellow enthusiasts you will be ridiculed, shunned and generally thought of as a bit of a tit.

[MrKipling]

here here. Ironically enough, I actually do have a couple of work aquaintances who work for AMG/Mercedes, perhaps I should get in touch with them. Alert them to this thread - still they'll probably look at it, laugh and declare it a load of bollocks - so there's not much point.

[ruim20]

It is fairly easy to guess that any supercar company; like Ferrari and McLaren will be working on new cars - they aren't going to suddenly start making fridge-freezers or plasma screen TVs are they?

I've allways wanted a big red freezer in my house!:D:D

[jump15vc]

i really hope the next slr is better, mclaren was always known forlightweight 4000+ is not light by any stretch, but i guess that is what you get after mercedes adds all of the luxury ammenities it doesnt need, what kind of supercar needs a nav system?