General Photography Competition #33 [Voting]

[Sauc3]

Vote for which photo you think is best. Click here (http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=22647) to vote in the Automotive Photography Voting thread.

SnowSkaterx8
2 Aug 2005
Digital, Nikon Coolpix 3200
Plants through rail in the Everglades, FL
http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=166564&d=1137873992
Piacki117
Old Skyscrapers
Paris, France
19/12/05
Kyocera Finecam S3R
http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=166566&stc=1&d=1137874575
Niko_Fx
My Dad
Park - Boca Raton
1 week ago
Kodak Z740
http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=166583&d=1137886445
Zeppelin
Lightning off the coast of Oregon
July 22 2005
Kodak DX6340
http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=166584&d=1137887040
Sauc3
Helicopter at sunset
Black Rock
22/1/06
Konica Minolta Dynax 7D
http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=166632&d=1137923407
spi-ti-tout
Pipes
My uncle's house
11/01/06
Sony DSC-W7
http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=166646&stc=1&d=1137932547
2ndclasscitizen
Smokey Cape Lighthouse
Smokey Cape
After New Year, 2006
Pentax *ist DS w/ Sigma 70-300 APO Super Macro
http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=166648&d=1137935020
RacingManiac
"Zeiss Ikon"
Last Saturday
Fold Out Arm of an Old Zeiss Ikon Super Ikonta A
Konica Minolta Maxxum 5D
http://www.supercars.net/pitlane/pics/1999226g.jpg

Niko and Zeppelin, both your pictures are red xs because they don't seem to be uploaded right, and I can't view them even from the original upload thread. If you can upload them again in this thread, I'll edit them into the thread.

[Sauc3]

forza_autodelta
"sunset trees"
21/01/06
from my bedroom
Canon powershot A95
http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=167685&d=1138218242
Suzq044
Jan 26, 06
Olympus E300 Evolt SLR
Vase by the Fireplace
http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=168174&d=1138397762
RazaBlade
24.1.06
Fuji Z2
Clouds
http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=168183&d=1138399623
Derekthetree
15.1.06
ricoh r2
waterfalls
http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=168525&d=1138441835
Drakkie
december 20th
Olympus D-540Z
Suurlandbrug,Rotterdam
http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=168538&d=1138456804
Tourbillon
20th January 2006, 5:18 pm
Nokia N70
My house, just an orchid
http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=168539&d=1138457027
Johnnynumfiv
Yesterday
Canon S2 IS
My amp
http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=168581&stc=1&d=1138465996

SPHFerrari (I believe that this picture does not pass the rules set for the contest.)
http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/forum/showpost.php?p=477759&postcount=50

[drakkie]

there are jsut two really good pictures in here. Spit-it-outs and suzq44. I suspect Sauc3 of photoshopping.The shutter time of the camera must have been extremly low for the blades of the helicopter,but again very long for a picture that was not very dark.Now it was long shuttertime+photoshop or either shot shutter time and photoshop. Could you please explain,dude... :)

Can you give me a hi-res version of it for closer inspection ??? Remeber even though you dont mke the comp. you can still be banned from it :D I can just start making it again :p (might do again soon).

[Tourbillon]

Meh now you say it I think it's just a scenery and he added the chopper there, from another pic.
But I have to say I really love it. :)

[Esperante]

I don't think it was photoshopped beyond brightness/contrast. If the expoure was longer, like you say, the waves would be blurrede aswell.

[spi-ti-tout]

Sauc3 is a good mate and I don't believe he photoshopped his entry into this week's comp. However, I can't explain it for him, so Dann?

[man 430gt]

Zeppelin got my vote, something new thats why, but that doesn't say the others arn't class;)

[Cotterik]

Sauc3 what are you doing? I run the comps every monday and tomorrow was routine proceedure. You couldve atleast asked if you could post this or not.

[dorricc]

there are jsut two really good pictures in here. Spit-it-outs and suzq44. I suspect Sauc3 of photoshopping.The shutter time of the camera must have been extremly low for the blades of the helicopter,but again very long for a picture that was not very dark.Now it was long shuttertime+photoshop or either shot shutter time and photoshop. Could you please explain,dude... :)

Can you give me a hi-res version of it for closer inspection ??? Remeber even though you dont mke the comp. you can still be banned from it :D I can just start making it again :p (might do again soon).

I don't believe that is photoshopped, because shooting straight into the sun will give a pretty fast shutter speed (the sun is well away from dropping below the horizon, so well away from being dark) which is consistent with the helicopter blades being frozen.

[suzq044]

thats definitely not photoshopped; at least not beyond color/contrast etc.. i took a pic like this near the airport; i expected the rotors to be blurred as well, but they weren't.. just cause they aren't doesnt mean it was photoshopped. [my photo was at dusk too]

[Sauc3]

Sauc3 what are you doing? I run the comps every monday and tomorrow was routine proceedure. You couldve atleast asked if you could post this or not.
I put these up because the date in the rules which states to put the polls up was 2 days ago.


No I did not edit my picture, as Dorricc stated shooting into the sun requires a quick shutter speed, so the blades of the chopper were pretty much frozen in mid-air. If someone can tell me how to access the EXIF files, because I don't know, I can give everyone the exact information of the shot.
As Suzq said as well, the blades can easily be frozen in mid air with a shot. I have two other shots of the helicopter as well as it was approaching and leaving, without looking into the sun, the blades were still near frozen, with only a very slight blur involved because of the brightness of the sun.
Drakkie, no sorry I can't give you the high-res version because I have some interest from people who would like to purchase the shot in full size and it would make it very unfair for people who pay to have the picture get on the internet for free.

From what I do know how to access, all 3 pictures of the helicopters were taken at 8:16pm.

[suzq044]

if you have windows, right click file -> properties> click advanced & it'll show you the camera properties too [ie shutter speed, f-stop.. format.. things like that] screenshot that & i'm sure it'd be plenty of proof for the nay-sayers here. lol

[Sauc3]

Here's what came of that, not sure if it's meant to show more or not :confused:?

At the bottom it IS clearly visible that PICT2868,2869 and 2870 are the pictures which contain the helicopter shots.

[SPHFerrari]

i think that the rule that you can not make any changes to the photo at all to be elligable for the photography contest is rediculously stupid. in todays world of digital photography photoshop is vastly important. it is rare that a photo that is published hasnt been edited in photoshop, its just the way the industry has evolved. having a photo competition where you cannot adjust exposure contrast saturation sharpness and other important features is like saying you cannot use a contrast filter or dodge and burn in the darkroom. (just in case you didnt know, contrast and exposure adjustments werent techniques invented by adobe).

obviously there is a fine line between making adjustments to a photograph and creating a computer generated image. but, in general, a photo is still a photo until you have added something that wasnt there.

an expert with photoshop cannot make a bad photograph good. crap going in = crap coming out. you can rescue an otherwise un-noteworthy frame, but u cant create a masterpeice out of nothing. no matter how much photoshop has been done, the ones that are truly good photos will stand out amongst the others.

this is just my opinion, that that rule should be removed. if you feel differently then explain why you feel that way. maybe you will convince me.

[SPHFerrari]

as a replacement for my illegitimate photo i offer this. unless you wont allow it because it is not as shot out of the camera.

[zeppelin]

There's now a contest for digitally edited photos, so that should be reason enough to keep this one for straight from the camera untouched photos. And I believe sauc's to be unedited. As for sale, are you selling prints too or just charging for the high res in digital format?

[SPHFerrari]

yea, theres a contest for digitally edited photos that still restricts what u can do, so its pointless. you cant separate photography (especially digital photography) from photoshop. they go together. if u cant touch ur photos people shooting on a dslr are going to be at a disadvantage in many cases (except maybe action shots) to people with point and shoot cameras because P&S increases contrast saturation and sharpness when you take the shot, and dslrs do not. so, should the people who know how to use their equipment to the fullest be penalized because other people would rather just let a smaller computer (camera) digitally manipulate their images for them? it makes no sense to me. there is no use for an as shot untouched digital image. it doesnt exist in the real world. every shot on a point and shoot is modified before written to the memory to adjust conrast saturation sharpness and white balance. why should some peoeple who prefer to do it themselves later on their copmuters so that they get it the way they want be put at such a disadvantage. it would be like if someone prefered to do math by hand, but you didnt let them have a pencil and paper, but you were giving out calculators to everyone else. or its like 2 people are making a statue or something, and one decides hell just pour the stuff into a mold that someone else made, and the other is actually sculpting it but you wont give him the tools he needs. i dont get how what was at one time such a good site, and is run by such good people can have such a sore spot that is these photo competitions. they are the most rediculous things ive ever seen.

[drakkie]

Offcourse you are welcome to send your shot over PM/email Sauc3,i will delete straightafter and wont print.there are allready 8 shots being developed now,so i dont even have the cash for it :)

As some more people suggested,you might have used brightness/contrast.There is as SPH suggested a very thin line between allowing it and not allowing. My personal preference goes to the side of not allowing it... Not everyone can afford a dSLR camera/camera in general. Furthermore far from every1 is able to use photoshop. To try and close the gap between hundreds of dollars worth of equipment and a couple of bucks i made the rule not to use photoshop at all.

If i/cotterik was going to allow it,there would be taken abuse of within a few weeks.Which has happened.after this i made this rule.The same debate has been done a few times before,and i thought i made MY points clear to you people. Offcourse i am open to criticism and suggestions,but this would not be a good idea. If you see the great shots some people take without photoshop (or undetected),why do you have a problem with that then.Learn your equipment and you dont need photoshop.

good luck and bye bye.

[Sauc3]

drakkie I have not touched my photograph other than to rotate the picture so it's actually upright, and to resize. Not a single other bit was edited for this competition.

With what you say about "learning your equipment", knowledge of every single bit does not always make the perfect photo. If someone is shooting freehand, or even on a tripod, in ideal conditions but something unexpected happens which could mean the shot of a lifetime, there is a very good chance that not everything in the photograph is exactly as you would want it to be. No matter how much you know your equipment, there's a good chance something will be slightly off. You might not be able to adjust your shutter speed in time, or your aperture, or even something as simple as having the flash on.
What about the equipment in the darkroom? Would that still count under "knowing your equipment"?
And what about someone who has just made the switch from a P&S camera to a DSLR, they obviously won't be able to come to terms with every aspect of their new camera, and even though they take the best picture in the world with a slight imperfection due to them not knowing every nook and cranny of their equipment they would be discounted for that?
You should know that if you THINK you have taken a brilliant picture just by looking at the screen on the back of your camera that it might not be true at all, but that moment is gone now. You might know your camera so incredibly well, there's still a chance that the focus wanders, or again that you're just 1 or 2 stops too fast or too slow.

Also Zeppelin I will PM you, as I believe that that matter shouldn't be included in this discussion.

[SPHFerrari]

its not about equipment. the contest should be about who can create the best photograph with all available tools. the only thing that should be restricted is adding stuff, removing stuff, or changing the general makeup of the picture. if you dont have a dslr, do the best you can with your p&s and photoshop. if you dont have photoshop, do your best without it. you cant make a contest fair for the least equiped and totally ignore those who can do more. not everyone can afford a race car, so they dont race. not everyone is a good driver, so they dont race. but for the people with skill and a race car, should we say they cant enter races?

[Cotterik]

i think that the rule that you can not make any changes to the photo at all to be elligable for the photography contest is rediculously stupid. in todays world of digital photography photoshop is vastly important. it is rare that a photo that is published hasnt been edited in photoshop, its just the way the industry has evolved. having a photo competition where you cannot adjust exposure contrast saturation sharpness and other important features is like saying you cannot use a contrast filter or dodge and burn in the darkroom. (just in case you didnt know, contrast and exposure adjustments werent techniques invented by adobe).

obviously there is a fine line between making adjustments to a photograph and creating a computer generated image. but, in general, a photo is still a photo until you have added something that wasnt there.

an expert with photoshop cannot make a bad photograph good. crap going in = crap coming out. you can rescue an otherwise un-noteworthy frame, but u cant create a masterpeice out of nothing. no matter how much photoshop has been done, the ones that are truly good photos will stand out amongst the others.

this is just my opinion, that that rule should be removed. if you feel differently then explain why you feel that way. maybe you will convince me.

as a fellow photographer i completely agree with what your saying. not alot of other people do, thats the problem.

[derekthetree]

yea, theres a contest for digitally edited photos that still restricts what u can do, so its pointless. you cant separate photography (especially digital photography) from photoshop. they go together. if u cant touch ur photos people shooting on a dslr are going to be at a disadvantage in many cases (except maybe action shots) to people with point and shoot cameras because P&S increases contrast saturation and sharpness when you take the shot, and dslrs do not. so, should the people who know how to use their equipment to the fullest be penalized because other people would rather just let a smaller computer (camera) digitally manipulate their images for them? it makes no sense to me. there is no use for an as shot untouched digital image. it doesnt exist in the real world. every shot on a point and shoot is modified before written to the memory to adjust conrast saturation sharpness and white balance. why should some peoeple who prefer to do it themselves later on their copmuters so that they get it the way they want be put at such a disadvantage. it would be like if someone prefered to do math by hand, but you didnt let them have a pencil and paper, but you were giving out calculators to everyone else. or its like 2 people are making a statue or something, and one decides hell just pour the stuff into a mold that someone else made, and the other is actually sculpting it but you wont give him the tools he needs. i dont get how what was at one time such a good site, and is run by such good people can have such a sore spot that is these photo competitions. they are the most rediculous things ive ever seen.

to solve this problem why not just get the edited photo comp opened up to allow as much altering as you want. that would then leave this comp open for people (like me :)) who either don't know how to modify pictures or don't want to. i believe that allowing modifying in this comp would ruin it as it wouldn't represent a level playing field (as far as it is possible with the large diversity of cameras)

another way would be to have two comps one for slr cameras and one for point and shoot. in fact that would probably be better as it would create an even more level competition

[drakkie]

another way would be to have two comps one for slr cameras and one for point and shoot. in fact that would probably be better as it would create an even more level competition

now that wuld be an option.im too tired to think now,so will think bout it tomorrow and discuss some.

[johnnynumfiv]

as a fellow photographer i completely agree with what your saying. not alot of other people do, thats the problem.

I concur too. These competitions are holding back the people who actually want to move on in photography and make thier pictures better.

And making a seperate competition for dslr's and p&s's is just rediculous, that would make 5 competitions which is totally unnecessary.

[SPHFerrari]

in my opinion, it should be done like this
well have:

General Photography cometition
-photoshop is allowed as long as it doesnt alter the content of the photo
-all that other stuff, must be your own, 800 pixels max size, whatever
Automotive Photography competition
-same, but with cars
Digital Imaging/Photo Manipulation contest (if people want)
- anything is allowed, but at that point its pretty much a chop contest, so maybe this idea should be played with (please throw out any ideas)

what do people think? any other ideas other than keeping it as is? id love to hear em.

[suzq044]

i bumped sauc3 w/ a vote :D

[derekthetree]

I concur too. These competitions are holding back the people who actually want to move on in photography and make thier pictures better.

And making a seperate competition for dslr's and p&s's is just rediculous, that would make 5 competitions which is totally unnecessary.

well i was just making a couple of suggestions as people seem to be complaining about them being limited in what they can do.

i'm perfectly happy with how things are at the moment.

[forza_autodelta]

it reminds me the supercopter in Magnum

[2ndclasscitizen]

another way would be to have two comps one for slr cameras and one for point and shoot. in fact that would probably be better as it would create an even more level competition
are there even enough people with dslr's? I've got one, rob has one, but he doesn't seem to enter much, i'm pretty sure sauc3's camera is a dslr, i don't know of anyone else. besides, the way most of votes seem to go is too who has the best subject rather than what they do with it, so there is no real advantage to having a dslr in this comp