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Matt
03-02-2004, 01:49 PM
The Maserati MC12 is a two-seater supercar produced by Italian car maker Maserati to allow a racing variant to compete in the FIA GT Championship. The car entered production in 2004 with 30 cars produced (five of which were not for sale). A further 25 were produced in 2005 making a total of 50 cars available for customers, each of which were pre-sold for €600,000.

Maserati designed and built the car on the chassis of the Enzo Ferrari but the final car has much larger size and a lower drag coefficient.[7] The MC12 is longer, wider and taller and has a sharper nose and smoother curves than the Enzo Ferrari, which has faster acceleration, better braking performance (shorter braking distance) and a higher top speed. The top speed of the Maserati MC12 is 330 kilometres per hour (205 mph) whereas the top speed of the Enzo Ferrari is 350 kilometres per hour (217.5 mph).

The MC12 was developed to signal Maserati's return to racing after 37 years. The road version was produced to homologate the race version. One requirement for participation in the FIA GT is the production of at least 25 road cars. Three GT1 race cars were entered into the FIA GT with great success. Maserati began racing the MC12 in the FIA GT toward the end of the 2004 season, winning the race held at the Zhuhai International Circuit. The racing MC12s were entered into the American Le Mans Series races in 2005 but exceeded the size restrictions and consequently paid weight penalties due to excess range.


Other version:
Maserati MMC 2004 (http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1464)
Maserati MC12 GT1 (http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=45914)
Maserati MC12 Corsa 2006 (http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=45915)

Matt
03-02-2004, 01:50 PM
Maserati MC 12 #2

Pimp racer
03-02-2004, 03:18 PM
DANG those are nice pics. Man where did you get those at?

Mustang
03-02-2004, 04:18 PM
i love that car. great pics matt

Cotterik
06-11-2004, 08:26 AM
I really do preffer this to the ferrari enzo, the back of the car is a bit strange but the mc12 tidies up in places where the enzo can sometimes look ugly.
In the list of cars promoted at the British International Motor show, the MC12 was listed and it was on Fifth Gears preview of the show, but when i went there the only cars that they had where the Quattroporte and the Coupe. Maybe it was only there for a few days, did anybody else see it?

Matt
06-28-2004, 01:04 PM
Maserati MC 12 #3

lithuanianmafia
06-28-2004, 01:19 PM
sweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet :D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

Coventrysucks
06-28-2004, 04:33 PM
Great, does that mean they will be stopping to remove/ replace the roof during races if the weather turns?
:)

lfb666
06-28-2004, 05:03 PM
Maserati MC 12 #4

Wolf03
06-29-2004, 09:52 AM
Maserati MC 12 #4

Is that car street legal? I thought they made it for racing. And if it is, how much does it cost?

Duell
06-29-2004, 10:48 AM
Yes it is streetlegal !! :eek: :eek: :eek:


Around 30 MC12s will be built, 25 of which will be for road use.
A second series of 25 examples for clients will be built in 2005 also.

But i don't know for the price off the machine

lfb666
06-29-2004, 07:24 PM
Maserati MC 12 #5

Matt
06-30-2004, 07:41 AM
Is that car street legal? I thought they made it for racing. And if it is, how much does it cost?

I think you're getting the MC12 confused with the MCC. The MC12 is the road-going version of the racing MCC.

nopassn
06-30-2004, 08:22 AM
I think you're getting the MC12 confused with the MMC. The MC12 is the road-going version of the racing MMC.

I think you're awesome for knowing the MCC is the race version of the MC12...I worship the ground you walk on. Here, have a drink on me.

Matt
06-30-2004, 09:52 PM
I think you've got the MMC (whatever that is) confused with the MCC, which is the race vesrion of the MC12...

I think you've got me confused with someone who won't edit your post to make me look like a god.

Manik
03-31-2005, 08:36 PM
wow look at Maserati MC 12 #5, just imagine seeing one of the 25 street legal supercars on the street. Bloody amazing and great photos as usual. :D

netburner
04-01-2005, 03:00 AM
Well Maserati doubled the number to 50 street legal cars.

Here are some more pictures (I would like to see pictures of the two silver ones in the MC12 groupphoto, background, right side...)

jorismo
04-01-2005, 04:58 AM
that is really the sweetest maserati ever!!! i'm lovin' it!®

Revo
04-01-2005, 09:07 AM
few more....

netburner
04-01-2005, 10:09 AM
Damn, that last three are really good ones!! Thanks Revo!

Smithy
04-03-2005, 11:33 AM
that is a lot of money sitting in that room! :eek:

Mustang
04-26-2005, 09:10 AM
still gets owned by the DB9 :D

90ft
04-27-2005, 06:33 AM
This car is a pig.
The only time it ever looks half way reasonable is when it's covered in sponsors stickers and then it at least some of the Vile lines it has on it.
Unfortunarely stickers can't hide revolting proportions.
Look at he side view. It's hideous. To compare it to a cockroach is flattery.
The only interesting thing about this car is . . . . No wait it's a rebodies Enzo. Nothing here that isn't done better on an Enzo.
There is nothing interesting about this car. It's a waste of a good enzo chassis!
Stick a Maserati badge on it and people think it nice.
I think even Sbarro would have declined putting his badge on a turd like this.
Find the designers and hang them!

Rebirth of Xar
04-27-2005, 07:11 AM
This car is a pig.
The only time it ever looks half way reasonable is when it's covered in sponsors stickers and then it at least some of the Vile lines it has on it.
Unfortunarely stickers can't hide revolting proportions.
Look at he side view. It's hideous. To compare it to a cockroach is flattery.
The only interesting thing about this car is . . . . No wait it's a rebodies Enzo. Nothing here that isn't done better on an Enzo.
There is nothing interesting about this car. It's a waste of a good enzo chassis!
Stick a Maserati badge on it and people think it nice.
I think even Sbarro would have declined putting his badge on a turd like this.
Find the designers and hang them!
have you seen this car IRL?
I haved and it doenst look hideous like you say, it looks marvelous. It screams for atention.

90ft
04-27-2005, 07:30 AM
DasModell, beautifully illustrated.
Had to plaster the Maserati logo over it to fide that repulsive front end.
This may be a race car but it's also being held up as something iconic for Maserati.
You're expecting me to believe a designer never got near it. This shape was honed in the wind tunnel by engineers for the express purpose of winning races.
Total Bull.
This is a tarts handbag. Swing it around and get some attention as cheep as possible. Thus the Enzo underpinnings.
I stand by my opinion.
I hate it with avengence.

labomba
04-27-2005, 07:37 AM
Nah... I'm sorry I have to agree with 90ft and Mustang. This ain't the nicest looking motor on the block. A lesson in Uglifying the Enzo, which wasn't a prom queen now was it?!
The only time it look remotely cool is when they had the prototype in naked Carbon fibre. Other wise it looks like an ugly prop from Deep space 9 or something. The lights are just stuck on all over the place TVR esque. It looks like an ugly version of a GT car from the Mclaren F1 'long tail' era.
What amuses me is that car got outlawed (F1 LT)... they changed the regulations many years ago. FOA wanted to get away from factory teams in GT racing that would dominate all the privately run teams. They created the 2 tier Sports prototype classes for the big spenders.
At least Prodrive go about it in a sporting manner and develop cars in the spirit of the rules.

Maserati are very VERY short sighted in their strategic planning if they though that they were going to get away with this.

Of course this is a subjective argument, but I never really cared for Frank Stephensons' other creation (the BMW Mini) Yes, the MC12 was designed!!
If it was concieved purely in a wind tunnel it would look a damn sight better.

And why won't they let Maserati race in Red? Is this something historical, or are Ferrari making like spoilt brats and only letting their own cars wear the scarlet paint?

DasModell
04-27-2005, 08:24 AM
where is that factory MC12 ???
is JMB .. Vitaphone . or Risi .. the FACTORY ??
i'm sick of this spirit of the rules too .. this car is 100% FIA SPEC . it is LEGAL . and races in FIA GT .. what more do u want .. just because the Saleen is a crap car . that usually doesn't last a 500km hours race .. should the MC12 be banned ???

red ... why race it in red . if those are not the colours of the JMB or Vitaphone sponsors . why is russian age racing Ferrari 550M blue ??? . why was JMB Ferrari 575 black and not red

Matra et Alpine
04-27-2005, 08:37 AM
where is that factory MC12 ???
is JMB .. Vitaphone . or Risi .. the FACTORY ??
i'm sick of this spirit of the rules too .. this car is 100% FIA SPEC . it is LEGAL . and races in FIA GT .. what more do u want ..
For it to obey the RULES and REGULATIONS and not be given entry by committee agreement !!!!

labomba
04-27-2005, 08:46 AM
The car was developed by the Maserati factory (Ferrari) with the Ferrari F1 test driver Luca Badoer aswell as Michael Schumacher doing development work.
The car was presented in BLUE... and if you look apart from Vitaphone, the other teams have kept this basic color.
I asked the simple question whether this uninspiring Blue color was a a traditional Maserati color. Or whether Ferrari have chosen not to let the MC12 appear in Italian racing color (Red) which incidently Maserari wore before Ferrari was even concieved!!
Maybe they want to differentiate between the Ferrari and Maseratti? To avoid the confusion?
And Yes... it appears the Saleen is a crap car :D

(P.S Please don't embarass yourself by letting your passion overide your objectivity)
It ain't pretty.

DasModell
04-27-2005, 10:24 AM
For it to obey the RULES and REGULATIONS and not be given entry by committee agreement !!!!

maybe u refer to ALMS entry . that's one thing .they were invited ..
it is 100% legal in FIA GT ..

DasModell
04-27-2005, 10:27 AM
(P.S Please don't embarass yourself by letting your passion overide your objectivity)
It ain't pretty.

i'm just full of all this accusations . of doom . it will kill sportscar racing . i don't see it .
Vitaphone has it's own colours .
JMB . just got the car one week before Monza .and their main sponsor is Red Bull . which is blue ... i agree it's not the proper red bull blue . but i think it's going to change ..

labomba
04-27-2005, 10:28 AM
Yeah, after they penalised it by giving it a token rear wing. Maserati probably had to give them away to the teams in order to get them raced. Then the teams proabably petitioned the FIA... Whatever its a royal F@#k up and an embrassment for Maserati.

DasModell
04-27-2005, 10:34 AM
the cars were sold just before the start of the season .
the car is legal since october last year .. if u check the points they scored in the last race of 2004 ..

they will make the car legal for ACO races . this year ..

labomba
04-27-2005, 10:58 AM
But sadly no chance of seeing them at LeMans.

DasModell
04-27-2005, 11:09 AM
this year ...
why sadly . i thought it was an ugly car . it's a crap car . it's owned by the DBR9 .

labomba
04-27-2005, 11:27 AM
... Its sad that Maserati didn't get it right in the first place and that one of the most historical brands in racing history is unable to run.

All of this assing around could have been avoided. But whoever made this decision to seek an 'unsporting' advantage, made that call a long time ago. (By purpose building a GT racer/ Not turning an existing road car into a race car like everyone else)
He was probably in too deep before he realised the implications unfortunately.
They should have taken the Coupe' GT and made that to GT1 regulations. That would be the parallel of the Prodrive DBR9, GM's 'Vette C6R, Prodrive 550, and Ferrari's own 575.

Matra et Alpine
04-27-2005, 12:54 PM
Regarding legality, the ALMS is NOT connected with the ACO goveringin body of Le Mans and the FIA. ALMS runs it's OWN interpretation of the rules and the MC-12 was "invited" to join.......

The International Motor Sports Association (IMSA) today announced that it has invited Maserati to enter the MC12 in the American Le Mans Series (ALMS) as a guest of the sanctioning body. The invitation to Maserati contains several limitations that Maserati has accepted and intends to compete immediately. This announcement clears the way for the MC12 race car to participate in the opening round of the American Le Mans Series at the Mobil 1 Twelve Hours of Sebring on March 19, and each of the remaining ALMS races in 2005. The new Maserati MC12 ALMS endeavor marks the first time in 48 years that Maserati has fielded a full factory race car in the United States. The last time a factory Maserati appeared on the grid at Sebring, Juan Manuel Fangio drove it to victory in 1957.

"The Maserati does not completely comply with the Automobile Club de l'Quest (ACO) requirements, and as such, has not yet been homologated for competition under ACO regulations," said IMSA Chief Operating Officer, Tim Mayer. "IMSA will bear the final responsibility to regulate the performance of the car in the interest of ALMS competition, such that the race car operates within the accepted performance envelope of cars within the GT1 category," added Mayer.


and


The car, as it will be permitted by IMSA, is 66 mm (2.598 inches) wider than the 2000mm (78.74 inches) permitted in the ACO regulations. The car was originally built to the 2004 FIA specification which included a 2100mm (82.68in) maximum width and Maserati has been forced to request a waiver for this requirement to run in 2005. The waiver process generally indicates that some performance penalty be applied to compensate for any performance gain.

The Maserati MC12 road car is longer than the 5000mm (196.85in) permitted in the regulations. While Maserati has been able to shorten the race car to the required length, full ACO homologation would require Maserati to shorten the length proportionally from both the front and rear overhang, which for 2005, Maserati has not been able to accomplish. This is not a requirement for FIA competition.


So it's still "cheating" to be allowed to run :)

DasModell
04-27-2005, 01:16 PM
that's 100% correct . minus . that "cheating" part :D
ALMS wanted Maserati and invited them . and Maserati agreed .. and they also made it clear that they will do the necesary adjustments so the car will comply with the regulations ..
as long as they did not have the Aston Martin all season .. they wanted to make the GT1 class a little bigger .. if it was not the MC12 . who would compete with the C6R ?? . the Saleen ?? the C5R ?? the GT1 class would not sell ..

i hate to see it handicaped . but at least is racing. it's a superb racingcar .
and with 4 cars in FIA GT .. the racing will be superb .. like it was at Monza . one of the best GT races in the last 5 years ..

Matra et Alpine
04-27-2005, 01:24 PM
OK, not "cheating" -- "applying Ferrari F1 techniques" then :)

DasModell
04-27-2005, 01:38 PM
or maybe BAR :D

labomba
04-27-2005, 01:47 PM
Yeah well... Ferrari aswell with their testing 'Cheating'

Or shall we leave that can of worms?

DasModell
04-27-2005, 01:52 PM
would u like to explain . this testing cheating ?? i do not understand :)

Matra et Alpine
04-27-2005, 02:39 PM
would u like to explain . this testing cheating ?? i do not understand :)
The MC-12 is a LONG catalogue of it failing to be designed to meet the specs and then them trying to get it accepted anyway and then agreeing to some mods if they woudl accept other and all along I'm not sure WHAT verions has been built as the homologation and hence I think it STILL fails the "proper" FIA requrieemtns but they're Italiana nd everyeon wants them to race so a comporemies will be reached.

ALMS was more desperate to bolster their image so gave in with less demands :)

DasModell
04-28-2005, 01:29 AM
the Audi R8 . is not 2005 ACO spec .. but it's allowed to run at LeMans . with a few restrictions .. ..
the same thing happend with the MC12 .. i see no problem with that .

labomba
04-29-2005, 05:58 AM
They do have 2005 'Hybrid' regulations... these are very complicated, But are designed to smooth over the change in regulations. So, the R8 and the various othe LMP900 and LMP675 are still legal. If modifications are made. This is common practise in racing series the world over.

Its NOT the same thing as the MC12 in any way. They failed to meet the regulations before entering the racing class!!

DasModell
05-04-2005, 02:43 AM
the R8 is not a Hybrid .

labomba
05-04-2005, 02:56 AM
Is that supposed to be funny?

Wouter Melissen
05-04-2005, 03:08 AM
This year there are four possible LMP1 entries:
a) a full LMP1 car (none)
b) a hybrid LMP1 (Courage / Dome / Pescarolo)
c) a handycapped LMP 900 (Audi / Dallara)
d) a handycapped LMP 675 (Zytek / DBA)

labomba
05-04-2005, 03:11 AM
Blimey...

Wouter Melissen
05-04-2005, 03:19 AM
Next year only a and b are eligible and from 2007 it's LMP1 cars only.

labomba
05-04-2005, 04:00 AM
There was me thinking the Hybrid rules were the handicap :)

Diesel Audi and Peugeot LMP1's next year?

Wouter Melissen
05-04-2005, 04:20 AM
There was me thinking the Hybrid rules were the handicap :)

Diesel Audi and Peugeot LMP1's next year?
Hybrid does not refer to the engine at all.

labomba
05-04-2005, 04:33 AM
Hybrid does not refer to the engine at all.

I was refering to the growing rumours that Audi will be replacing the R8 with a diesel powered LMP1 racer. Peugeot are also reported to be preparing a similarly powered LMP1 competitor for the 2006 LeMans 24hours.

Anyone with any interest in Sportscars should check out this site...
http://www.mulsannescorner.com/ I regularly spend hours here :)

Though I didn't spend long enough looking at the regulations :rolleyes:
http://www.mulsannescorner.com/2005LMP12.pdf
http://www.mulsannescorner.com/2005lmp900.pdf

This is my personal favorite (The most awesome car ever)??
http://www.mulsannescorner.com/allardj2x.html

shockwaveracing
05-04-2005, 04:41 AM
This year there are four possible LMP1 entries:
a) a full LMP1 car (none)
b) a hybrid LMP1 (Courage / Dome / Pescarolo)
c) a handycapped LMP 900 (Audi / Dallara)
d) a handycapped LMP 675 (Zytek / DBA)

just me being picky but handicapped is not spelt the way you spelt it boss... :cool:

Wouter Melissen
05-04-2005, 05:03 AM
just me being picky but handicapped is not spelt the way you spelt it boss... :cool:
Je suis desole.

PsychoChimp22
05-04-2005, 08:51 AM
Is that car street legal? I thought they made it for racing. And if it is, how much does it cost?

MRSP is $810,0000 USD. However, if you could aford it, they sold all of them in a few days like 5 months before they ever started production. :p

Comaha
05-04-2005, 12:01 PM
http://www.mulsannescorner.com/audir8c.htm

Holy S... - never seen before.
Does anyone have hi-res pics?

PsychoChimp22
05-05-2005, 09:18 PM
http://www.mulsannescorner.com/audir8c.htm

Holy S... - never seen before.
Does anyone have hi-res pics?

Put this in teh request forum.

DasModell
05-06-2005, 03:13 AM
yeah , i would like some high res photos of the R8C .. much better looking than the roadster .

Viper007
05-11-2005, 04:01 PM
wow i am so suprised by how many people do not like this car. As for me I love it more than a viper which is quite rare.

DasModell
05-12-2005, 01:47 PM
many people . have issues ..

netburner
05-18-2005, 07:22 AM
Some more pics out of the web...

netburner
05-18-2005, 07:23 AM
last 4...

thanos
05-18-2005, 11:32 AM
Thanks!!! Great photoes!

Jet Black V
05-18-2005, 11:53 AM
Its a nice car, and i enjoy it thourghly but with all that torque how is it not a little faster then it is. Overall though Amazing car!!!

nopassn
07-22-2005, 09:36 AM
as requested...

valgabr
07-29-2005, 04:42 PM
I would rather have the Enzo, but it's still epic..

Colin17
10-28-2005, 04:32 AM
new ones?

werty
10-28-2005, 09:51 AM
new ones?
mmm the first one is really nice:cool:

Vaigra
03-01-2006, 03:55 PM
Maserati MC12 #27

Piacki_117
08-19-2006, 03:09 AM
Maserati MC12 #29

Piacki_117
08-19-2006, 03:14 AM
Maserati MC12 #30

SCUDERIA-FERRARI
01-30-2007, 10:27 PM
does anyone know where i can find some interior shots on the racecar

KonaGreen
01-31-2007, 05:09 PM
Dammit Piacki!!! How do you do this!!!!!! Those are unbelievably gorgeous photos!

clittle
02-01-2007, 06:34 AM
I seriously love this car.
Not much more I can say about it.

Duell
04-29-2013, 11:56 AM
Maserati MC 12 2005 #31

Duell
04-29-2013, 11:57 AM
Maserati MC 12 2005 #32

NSXType-R
04-29-2013, 06:54 PM
I think this is much prettier than the Enzo but they're both equally ungainly as street cars...

jcp123
04-29-2013, 07:47 PM
I agree. About 48239482390x better looking than the Enzo. Or the LaFerrari (aka, brain cells die every time I type the name), for that matter, but it doesn't look like it belongs on the street. Incidentally, does anyone else think this kinda looks like an NSX with a body kit? I don't think the paint job is helping, it would probably show much better with something else. Interior's surprisingly nice though.

Ferrer
04-29-2013, 11:14 PM
I think it's a seriously ugly car, which isn't a Maserati at all and that was only given to them to have something to race competitively. Unfortunately it was outside of the rules and could only race when it was given special permission.

It would have been better to spend the money somewhere else.

pimento
04-29-2013, 11:22 PM
It's bigger, more boring and somehow slightly faster yet less exciting than an Enzo, and basically pointless, yes.

jcp123
04-30-2013, 12:14 AM
I think it's a seriously ugly car, which isn't a Maserati at all

Maseratis can be given license to be fast and pointless...but never ugly. I don't know how Maserati's sales are these days, but when I think Maserati, I think of something sexy and fast, bawdy and charming (there is a word for this which my brain, infested with fermented barley and hops, cannot remember). Not this. Get rid of the boy scout paintjob and kit car feel of the body, I think there is something there. The interior is nice and its performance befits Ferrari's bastard child status. I really hate to be so negative, but in all honesty I feel they could and should have done a lot better.

Ferrer
05-01-2013, 02:56 AM
Maseratis can be given license to be fast and pointless...but never ugly. I don't know how Maserati's sales are these days, but when I think Maserati, I think of something sexy and fast, bawdy and charming (there is a word for this which my brain, infested with fermented barley and hops, cannot remember). Not this. Get rid of the boy scout paintjob and kit car feel of the body, I think there is something there. The interior is nice and its performance befits Ferrari's bastard child status. I really hate to be so negative, but in all honesty I feel they could and should have done a lot better.
The uglyness is one problem but not the problem. The problem this car has is that it isn't a Maserati, it wasn't designed to be a Maserati and it is a mere rebadge. Back in the 70's when everyone went mid-engine crazy Maserati produced Bora which was famous for being nothing like any other mid-engined italian supercar and more like a mid-engined GT car.

Maserati has as much racing pedigree as Ferrari, if not more, but their road cars were always (excpet perhaps the earliest A6s) Grand Tourers for the gentleman. Yes, they had race derived engines, but comfort and elegance was always there alongside speed and style. This only has speed, not style, not elegance and definitely not comfort.

So as a Maserati it is plainly awful.

pimento
05-01-2013, 04:57 AM
On that note it would be nice if Fiat realised that and did a Maserati FF based tourer. Maybe less tech and cheaper, but still V12 and fast. Something to butt up against the Aston Martins.

Ferrer
05-01-2013, 05:46 AM
On that note it would be nice if Fiat realised that and did a Maserati FF based tourer. Maybe less tech and cheaper, but still V12 and fast. Something to butt up against the Aston Martins.
Ditch the four wheel drive and the hatchback body and count me in.

pimento
05-01-2013, 06:16 AM
Ditch the four wheel drive and the hatchback body and count me in.

Well, gotta differentiate somehow.

Kitdy
05-01-2013, 08:03 PM
On that note it would be nice if Fiat realised that and did a Maserati FF based tourer. Maybe less tech and cheaper, but still V12 and fast. Something to butt up against the Aston Martins.


Ditch the four wheel drive and the hatchback body and count me in.


Well, gotta differentiate somehow.

It's called a Maserati GranTurismo.

pimento
05-01-2013, 08:46 PM
It's called a Maserati GranTurismo.

That's more Ferrari California style. I was suggesting bigger and more luxurious.

Kitdy
05-01-2013, 09:13 PM
That's more Ferrari California style. I was suggesting bigger and more luxurious.

The GT is huge!

pimento
05-01-2013, 09:39 PM
The GT is huge!

It's a V8! .. And probably too big.

Kitdy
05-01-2013, 09:59 PM
It's a V8! .. And probably too big.

Wait... Is the GT too big, or too small?! V8 veeshmeight. It is appropriate.

Ferrer
05-01-2013, 10:59 PM
Think 3500GT v 5000GT, both such cars could co-exist.

Also, Maserati should be allowed to have a two seater front engined Berlinetta.

Duell
05-02-2013, 04:16 AM
Think 3500GT v 5000GT, both such cars could co-exist.

Also, Maserati should be allowed to have a two seater front engined Berlinetta.


I think the Maserati 5000GT is pretty much comparable with the GranTurimo.
Both a V8 both roughly 5 litre, both front engined rear wheel drive two seater.

But for a V6 version like the 3500GT I think they need a other car, maybe a modified Ferrari California.
Which I still don't like.

But nevertheless I still like the MC12 even though it is a modified Enzo.

Ferrer
05-02-2013, 04:45 AM
I think the Maserati 5000GT is pretty much comparable with the GranTurimo.
Both a V8 both roughly 5 litre, both front engined rear wheel drive two seater.

But for a V6 version like the 3500GT I think they need a other car, maybe a modified Ferrari California.
Which I still don't like.

But nevertheless I still like the MC12 even though it is a modified Enzo.
I think that the GranTurismo can trace its roots directly back to the 3500GT.

The 5000GT was something completely different, more akin to the Ferrari America line, and that a V12-engined Maserati GT car could revive.

Not that any of this matter, because Fiat has decided to go in the complete opposite direction by taking Maserati downmarket and making it a mainstream and high-volume brand. So what Maserati is doing is reviving the Bitrubo period.

pimento
05-02-2013, 06:44 AM
Rather than perhaps using Alfa to move up into the bottom of that level as their high-end models and using Lancia to be premium/sporty/niche Alfas. Or something.

Ferrer
05-02-2013, 09:22 AM
Rather than perhaps using Alfa to move up into the bottom of that level as their high-end models and using Lancia to be premium/sporty/niche Alfas. Or something.
Actually I'm sure that if you name a folder or a file "Sporty Lancia" on any FGA computer the system crashes, implodes and triggers the self-destruction mechanism.

Kitdy
05-02-2013, 06:32 PM
Which raises a question: outside historical reasons, why Maserati Lancia Alfa Ferrari?

pimento
05-02-2013, 07:03 PM
You mean why retain all four brands? Probably the fear of rioting if one is shuttered, and/or greed because if one is sold off it's immediately a competitor for the others (Maserati for Ferrari and Lancia for Alfa). On the flip side, some competition could be good, but unlikely - VW would buy Alfa/Lancia and make some competent Golf/Polo clones with the badge on. Bleh.

Ferrer
05-02-2013, 09:59 PM
Which raises a question: outside historical reasons, why Maserati Lancia Alfa Ferrari?
Well, why Seat, Skoda, Volkswagen, Audi, Bentley, Lamborghini and Bugatti?

Or why Chevrolet, Holden, Opel, Buick, Cadillac and GMC?

Theoretically it makes sense, and if you do well you can pretty much dominate the automotive world (VAG), but if you do it wrong (and chances are, you will, at some point) you'll end up with massive overlap and having to shut down irrelevant divisions (GM) or a complete mess (FGA). In any case, in such schemes there's always a brand/division that is neglected or misunderstood (VAG: Seat, GM: Opel, Fiat: All).

And then in the italian case you've got another added problem, and it is the massive history behind all those names, their loyal fanbase and the fact unlike most of the other cases they were proper car manufacturers with their idiosincrasies rather than divisions created by accountants and marketing divisions.

As a car enthusiast I'd love to run FGA. As a businessman it has to be a nightmare.

Kitdy
05-03-2013, 05:39 PM
Well, why Seat, Skoda, Volkswagen, Audi, Bentley, Lamborghini and Bugatti?

Or why Chevrolet, Holden, Opel, Buick, Cadillac and GMC?

Theoretically it makes sense, and if you do well you can pretty much dominate the automotive world (VAG), but if you do it wrong (and chances are, you will, at some point) you'll end up with massive overlap and having to shut down irrelevant divisions (GM) or a complete mess (FGA). In any case, in such schemes there's always a brand/division that is neglected or misunderstood (VAG: Seat, GM: Opel, Fiat: All).

And then in the italian case you've got another added problem, and it is the massive history behind all those names, their loyal fanbase and the fact unlike most of the other cases they were proper car manufacturers with their idiosincrasies rather than divisions created by accountants and marketing divisions.

As a car enthusiast I'd love to run FGA. As a businessman it has to be a nightmare.

I dig what you say. FGA just has a much more precarious position than the other two badge champions, VG and GM.

I think that if a car enthusiast were to run FGA, they may well just run it into the ground even faster. No one has any money anywhere and no one works and apparently auto production efficiency in Italy is laughably terrible.

Ferrer
05-04-2013, 03:26 AM
I dig what you say. FGA just has a much more precarious position than the other two badge champions, VG and GM.

I think that if a car enthusiast were to run FGA, they may well just run it into the ground even faster. No one has any money anywhere and no one works and apparently auto production efficiency in Italy is laughably terrible.
That's for sure.

But.

If we car enthusiasts were allowed to run car companies the world would be a better place.

Probably.

pimento
05-04-2013, 07:49 AM
That's for sure.

But.

If we car enthusiasts were allowed to run car companies the world would be a better place.

Probably.

Or something.

jcp123
05-04-2013, 01:17 PM
It's the old adage of laddering up. Get em in the door with the cheapies, and as people get older and disposible incomes rise, maybe they'll stick with your more pricey offerings. Pioneered by GM, today maybe a little bit outdated as cars are seen as more of a fungible commodity than they used to be.

Ferrer
05-04-2013, 01:47 PM
It's the old adage of laddering up. Get em in the door with the cheapies, and as people get older and disposible incomes rise, maybe they'll stick with your more pricey offerings. Pioneered by GM, today maybe a little bit outdated as cars are seen as more of a fungible commodity than they used to be.
That worls (worked?) in the US, but not in Europe where the car market is quite a lot more complex. Also, the way italians, germans or swedes do things is quite different so the division structure doesn't quite work as well.