PDA

View Full Version : start of F1



NAZCA C2
03-04-2004, 08:03 PM
If any of you have Speed Channel, F1 begins tonight (March 4 @ 11pm est). it's practice from Australia. So does anybody have any predictions for this weekend? Who will get pole, who will win, ect. Go Mclaren!!!

Matra et Alpine
03-04-2004, 08:09 PM
If you can't get live TV coverage, here's the next best thing ...

http://www.formula1.com/race/livetiming/714.html

Live timing of the practice, qualifying and race.

They've resurrected the old lap chart formats published in Motoring News etc.
Can't wait for first race :) :)

Second practice session is live NOW .....

Go DC !!!!

DasModell
03-04-2004, 09:55 PM
wow . and what a start .. Ferrari "surprising" everyone .. 1 sec ahead of everybody .... :) ... and the best of the everynody is Renault .. :)

bum-man
03-06-2004, 12:29 PM
what happened with mclaren? are they running heavy? anyone have any sources?

Mustang
03-06-2004, 02:34 PM
what happened with mclaren? are they running heavy? anyone have any sources?

I dont know but in the qualifying they didn't do as well as i thaught they would, and Coulthards little mistake round the last corner didnt help did it. But i think that one of the best qualifyings was by Jenson Button he did very well beating the Mclaren and the BMW, but he might have been on a lot lighter fuel load to the rest of the field. Anyway looking forward to the race tomorrow/ tonight.

jones.dk
03-06-2004, 03:19 PM
I have heard that Schumacher is at pole position and barrichello is second...

Matra et Alpine
03-06-2004, 03:37 PM
I have heard that Schumacher is at pole position and barrichello is second...
Yep, go to the many on-line F1 sites and you can get the rest too.

http://www.formula1.com/race/livetiming/714.html

is a new one for me this year and has an excellent REAL-TIME timing and lap charts as well as commentary.

Matra et Alpine
03-06-2004, 03:41 PM
Did anyone else spot the error in the Siemens timing system ?
They obviously out-sourced the software development to the lowest bidder.

When Montoya passed the first sector marker with exactly the same time as Webber ( 29.xx ) the difference clock showed the sector time and not the difference. Someone couldn't do the math properly to simply subtract one number from the other and get it right.

All you folks running your networks on Siemens servers and PCs or whose telephone network uses EWSD exchanges I'd go check it's still working :)

JezKnight
03-06-2004, 06:12 PM
Guys the first race is starting sooon! yay

6:30 PST on SV

I'm betting Schumacher wins and Barrichello comes in second, go Ferrari!!!!

fpv_gtho
03-07-2004, 03:24 AM
well looks like ferrari are back to their winning dominance after the scare of last year. i was hoping webber wouldve at least scored points on his home ground, but still hes been on overload ever since he got here publicity wise and his whole scedule's been planned months in advance because so many people want to interview him or have him make a public appearance

Alfahollic
03-07-2004, 03:40 AM
M. Schumacher, Barra and Ferrari maintain their Dominance of the F1. This car looks very fast and far supirior over BMW and Mclaren, long time to go yet though. Mclaren might want to make there cars last the journey. Nice one Kimi. Jaguar, phh, first day of testing they had hydrolic failure in there gearboxs you would think they would have sorted out that.

Falcon500
03-07-2004, 04:16 AM
Yawn what a dull race it was.
To be perfectly honest i dont like f1 much anyways too far removed from road going cars...
And alfaholic you really need to give credit where credit is due jaguar didnt do too badly to qualify 6th and as for the gearbox failure problems occur especially when a car is on the razors edge. Same thing with Mclarren there are new rules put in place that mean you can only use one engine(as i am sure you fully know)...its unkown territory...i didnt see Schumacher raceing full on all the way...why? because he could and he wanted to make sure he lasted full race distance. And saying nice one kimmi? what a ignorent thing to say thier only human and accidents do happen. -1 to rep

DasModell
03-07-2004, 08:38 AM
dull??? .. it was a race ... one in wich no one could touch Ferrari .. :) .. so . a very good race ... :)

jones.dk
03-07-2004, 11:03 AM
dull??? .. it was a race ... one in wich no one could touch Ferrari .. :) .. so . a very good race ... :)

yes.... very good race indeed.... ferrari really showed whos the boss....

McLaren Mercedes... Go home

henk4
03-07-2004, 01:14 PM
UCP fell asleep during the race. This Ferrari dominance is embarrassing, especially when you have to set your alarm at 04.00 hours.

Falcon500
03-07-2004, 01:18 PM
Jones DKs rep is another casulty in this thread...Look they are a top level team and have been doing well for a long time and manged to come send last year and had a marvelous shot at winning it last year...you can dislike the team but as i said give credit where credits due.
Well i dislike ferraris not only as race cars but also as road going cars and to be honest i was more intrested whatching the progress of the Sauba team,Jordan ford and other such teams that where way back....the race had so very little passing any where in the race for 50 laps you hardly saw any!(passing doesnt necesitate a good race but it adds intrest) personally i think f1 had more intrest (for me) back in the mid 80s rather then now. And rember these are my opions they all aremy opions and i am not knocking anything ferrari do make good cars but the attitude they carry is something i severly dislike.

NAZCA C2
03-07-2004, 02:36 PM
WOW!!! The Australian GP was so exciting, the cars just went round and round with no passing or anything! I am being scarcastic if you couldnt tell. That was one of the most boring races to date. If the rest of the season is like yesterdays race F1 is going to lose a lot of fans.

Too bad Kimi went out early, they should have changed the engine and started at the back, maybe they would have at least finished. Alonso did a good job, Renault might be the only team that can compete with the Ferrari.

bum-man
03-07-2004, 07:58 PM
Too bad Kimi went out early, they should have changed the engine and started at the back, maybe they would have at least finished. Alonso did a good job, Renault might be the only team that can compete with the Ferrari.
wasnt really the engine...it was the pump that supplied the engine with coolent that led to it siezing (a engine can only get so hot you know =)), either way mclaren needs to get their act together...the car is slow and unreliable.

bum-man
03-07-2004, 08:02 PM
yes.... very good race indeed.... ferrari really showed whos the boss....

McLaren Mercedes... Go home
wow you really want that to happen...surely the sport would lose a lot of its fan base then and there wouldnt be much of F1 left...its already in a downward spyril and i only see it getting worse.
now if only Mac and Williams had their own tire company at their disposal as well as having the FIA getting their back when they need them.

Deckard
03-07-2004, 10:01 PM
now if only Mac and Williams had their own tire company at their disposal as well as having the FIA getting their back when they need them.

Just to clarify your comment.
How come when Bridgestone was suffering last year (and Ferrari were struggling), everyone was stating that it was because they only had a few teams testing, and one of the benefit that Michelin had was that by having several teams it could test more etc....

Now you seem to be saying that Ferrari are benefitting from having their own tyre company (which they basically do)? So, which is it? Surely you can't have it both ways.

These days Ferrari bashing seems to be a popular sport. Ferrari are making F1 boring, it's processional etc....

How come noone seems to question why is that Williams and Mclaren have developed crap cars for the last few years?
It's good to see that Renault, BAR and to a degree Jag are picking up their game, why is it the other two have dropped the ball?

I've been watching F1 for close to 20 years (yes, I'm old :) ) and I just think it's an easy and cheap shot just to blame the rules or that someone is getting preferential treatment.

Just my 2c worth. :D

crisis
03-07-2004, 11:33 PM
How come noone seems to question why is that Williams and Mclaren have developed crap cars for the last few years?
It's good to see that Renault, BAR and to a degree Jag are picking up their game, why is it the other two have dropped the ball?

I dont see how you can say Williams and Mclaren are developing crap cars. They are not that far off the pace. I dont think that there are very many "crap" cars in F1 at all. Factor Schumacher into any equation and see what would happen. As far as being boring, I'll admit I didnt watch it all
( although I would much rather watched it than spent the time painting my pergola) but watching cars going that speed, at 18000rpm is not boring. I wish Senna was still here. To see him against Schumacher would have quelled any chance of boredom.

Alfahollic
03-08-2004, 03:04 AM
Yawn what a dull race it was.
To be perfectly honest i dont like f1 much anyways too far removed from road going cars...
And alfaholic you really need to give credit where credit is due jaguar didnt do too badly to qualify 6th and as for the gearbox failure problems occur especially when a car is on the razors edge. Same thing with Mclarren there are new rules put in place that mean you can only use one engine(as i am sure you fully know)...its unkown territory...i didnt see Schumacher raceing full on all the way...why? because he could and he wanted to make sure he lasted full race distance. And saying nice one kimmi? what a ignorent thing to say thier only human and accidents do happen. -1 to rep

Please don't post pointless messages. Why would i give credit to jaguar? And where did they deserve any? They were never a challenge and had mechanical failure. You have to remember all the other cars are reving out to 18 or 19,000 odd rpm not just jaguar. Same rules apply for every team. I give credit to teams that last the distance and are competitive not to failures like Renualt maybe Williams.

M. Schumacher if you didnt notice, posted lap record after lap record and he only slowed in the last few laps when he was probably 40 odd seconds in front of P3. Nice one Kimmi. He gets paid plenty of money. Actually i dont even think it was a mistake wasnt it that poorly built mclaren that failed.

Cheers for the rep means a lot.

henk4
03-08-2004, 03:20 AM
( although I would much rather watched it than spent the time painting my pergola)

Can we get a pic of the pergola?

fpv_gtho
03-08-2004, 04:13 AM
Please don't post pointless messages. Why would i give credit to jaguar? And where did they deserve any? They were never a challenge and had mechanical failure. You have to remember all the other cars are reving out to 18 or 19,000 odd rpm not just jaguar. Same rules apply for every team. I give credit to teams that last the distance and are competitive not to failures like Renualt maybe Williams.

M. Schumacher if you didnt notice, posted lap record after lap record and he only slowed in the last few laps when he was probably 40 odd seconds in front of P3. Nice one Kimmi. He gets paid plenty of money. Actually i dont even think it was a mistake wasnt it that poorly built mclaren that failed.

Cheers for the rep means a lot.


Man im really going to have to restrain what im really thinking, but can you give some consideration!! These teams are spending millions and millions of dollards per year to be in this sport. At one end of the field youve got Minardi and Jordan, at the other youve got BMW-Williams, McLaren and Ferrari. At the end of the day people like Jordan and Minardi dont need idiots telling them "aww good one Stoddart" or "way to blow a good race" because theyre cars were pulled out on mechanical failure. I wouldnt be replying with such passion to this if say, Hakkinnen fumbled a passing manouvre and went spearing into the tyre barriers, or Webber missed the brake and hit the accelerator going into a corner and likewise went into the tyre barriers. When the cars got problems all you can do is get it back to the workshop and try and fix the problem. Its the first race of the year also, and alot of people are out there in new cars. Sure some people like Schumacher will get something thats quick out of the box, but others like Webber and Hakkinnen won'y have that benefit and are going to expect something along the way to go wrong

Falcon500
03-08-2004, 04:25 AM
Please don't post pointless messages. Why would i give credit to jaguar? And where did they deserve any? They were never a challenge and had mechanical failure. You have to remember all the other cars are reving out to 18 or 19,000 odd rpm not just jaguar. Same rules apply for every team. I give credit to teams that last the distance and are competitive not to failures like Renualt maybe Williams.

M. Schumacher if you didnt notice, posted lap record after lap record and he only slowed in the last few laps when he was probably 40 odd seconds in front of P3. Nice one Kimmi. He gets paid plenty of money. Actually i dont even think it was a mistake wasnt it that poorly built mclaren that failed.

Cheers for the rep means a lot.
Pointless messages... Jagaur is a top level team and your doing nothing but pointlessly ragging on them! they dont have the funds other teams do and yes they never where a challange and are never likly to be you cant seem to accept that they are in the main game and are improving. As i said where credit is due even Minardi and Jordan ford need credit for sticking to the game doing the best job they can and giveing so many young hopefuls a drive in f1 for example.
I never said anything about revs I said all the cars are tuned to the razors edge which is another way of saying their on the limit.
I never said they didnt apply to only one team and i fail to see where i said that.
In case you didnt notice i said because he could before i said anything else and i was hinting he didntseem fully confident in his car lasting the whole distance either....other wise he would of gone flat out for the rest of the race.
poorly built McLarren? i dont really think so they build fine race cars and even in the cleanest and with the best builders nothing is faultless (hell look a Barrchello when his wheel went flying off for seemingly no reason)
And are yourefering to Renault and McLarren as failures?
[QUOTE] I give credit To teams that last the distance and are competative not to failures like Renault and maybey Mclarren[QUOTE] Because it makes you seem your under an "if you dont win you suck" mentaility which is a really sad way to be!
And as for your rep ill glady strip you off your last point for obviously not readingmy post correctly, Attempting to puting words in my mouth and fialing to see the good in any team that isnt ferrari.

bum-man
03-08-2004, 08:23 AM
Just to clarify your comment.
How come when Bridgestone was suffering last year (and Ferrari were struggling), everyone was stating that it was because they only had a few teams testing, and one of the benefit that Michelin had was that by having several teams it could test more etc....

Now you seem to be saying that Ferrari are benefitting from having their own tyre company (which they basically do)? So, which is it? Surely you can't have it both ways.

These days Ferrari bashing seems to be a popular sport. Ferrari are making F1 boring, it's processional etc....

How come noone seems to question why is that Williams and Mclaren have developed crap cars for the last few years?
It's good to see that Renault, BAR and to a degree Jag are picking up their game, why is it the other two have dropped the ball?

I've been watching F1 for close to 20 years (yes, I'm old :) ) and I just think it's an easy and cheap shot just to blame the rules or that someone is getting preferential treatment.

Just my 2c worth. :D
im just stating a fact...thats the main reason why mclaren left bridgestone a few years ago because they (bridgestone) were going to focus most of their efforts on ferraris car (which is complete BS), and yes i do believe this does give them an advantage since each car has their own characteristics it wont do ferrari that much good if they had another team test for them (unless its Sauber of course).
reason why all the other competitors look like crap is quite simply ferrari have the biggest budget. it all comes down to money doesnt it?
Ferrari is the cancer of the sport!

Wouter Melissen
03-08-2004, 08:34 AM
im just stating a fact...thats the main reason why mclaren left bridgestone a few years ago because they (bridgestone) were going to focus most of their efforts on ferraris car (which is complete BS), and yes i do believe this does give them an advantage since each car has their own characteristics it wont do ferrari that much good if they had another team test for them (unless its Sauber of course).
reason why all the other competitors look like crap is quite simply ferrari have the biggest budget. it all comes down to money doesnt it?
Ferrari is the cancer of the sport!

Toyota has a similar budget as Ferrari, which pretty much proves you wrong.

henk4
03-08-2004, 09:31 AM
im just stating a fact...thats the main reason why mclaren left bridgestone a few years ago because they (bridgestone) were going to focus most of their efforts on ferraris car (which is complete BS),

You say it yourself fortunately, it is complete BS. Michelin wanted to enter the market, and they did so and very successfully. In the midst of the 2003 season everybody agreed that the Michelin was the best tyre and that Ferrari was struggling because of the Bridgestones. Nevertheless Ferrari stayed faithful and did not ran of, which is now paying dividend under cold conditions, but can be turned around in two weeks time in Malaysia.

(If I were you I would also be a tat more careful when using the word cancer).

bum-man
03-08-2004, 10:22 AM
Toyota has a similar budget as Ferrari, which pretty much proves you wrong.
yes but they are also starting from scratch, they have absolutely no F1 experience compared to ferraris what? 60 years experience. i forsee toyota becoming a big threat when they start to take some risks in chassis developement (they already have a very powerfull engine).

bum-man
03-08-2004, 10:27 AM
You say it yourself fortunately, it is complete BS. Michelin wanted to enter the market, and they did so and very successfully. In the midst of the 2003 season everybody agreed that the Michelin was the best tyre and that Ferrari was struggling because of the Bridgestones. Nevertheless Ferrari stayed faithful and did not ran of, which is now paying dividend under cold conditions, but can be turned around in two weeks time in Malaysia.

(If I were you I would also be a tat more careful when using the word cancer).
not really...bridgestone has the clear advantage when it comes to intermediates, full rain tires, and cold whether. the only time the michelins are clearly dominant are in the sqorching heat.

henk4
03-08-2004, 11:48 AM
not really...bridgestone has the clear advantage when it comes to intermediates, full rain tires, and cold whether. the only time the michelins are clearly dominant are in the sqorching heat. That's what the conditions in Malaysia most likely are going to be, unless tropical rains will play up, so I don't know what you mean by : "not really"

bum-man
03-08-2004, 01:11 PM
That's what the conditions in Malaysia most likely are going to be, unless tropical rains will play up, so I don't know what you mean by : "not really"
you didnt make yourself clear enough you said michelin were the best so i obviously thought you meant best all around.

henk4
03-08-2004, 01:45 PM
you didnt make yourself clear enough you said michelin were the best so i obviously thought you meant best all around.

OK, in the mid of 2003 season the summer GP's in Europe took place and we had a very hot summer, at which time everybody wanted to be on Michelins and Ferrari was definetely struggling.

Deckard
03-08-2004, 02:38 PM
im just stating a fact...thats the main reason why mclaren left bridgestone a few years ago because they (bridgestone) were going to focus most of their efforts on ferraris car (which is complete BS), and yes i do believe this does give them an advantage since each car has their own characteristics it wont do ferrari that much good if they had another team test for them (unless its Sauber of course).
reason why all the other competitors look like crap is quite simply ferrari have the biggest budget. it all comes down to money doesnt it?
Ferrari is the cancer of the sport!

Actually I agreed with you that having your own tyre supplier was an advantage. But I'm sure that you saw the comments worldwide last year that one of the reasons that Ferrari was struggling was that the Bridgestones were not performing as well as the Michelins (except for Intermideates). Rememeber Hungary (I think?) last year when MS was lapped by Alonso?????

You obviously don't like Ferrari and that's fine, the whole competion wouldn't exist without rivalry and passion. Although calling Ferrari a "cancer" is a bit extreme, because although you may not like them, I think that F1 wouldn't survive without Ferrari.



I dont see how you can say Williams and Mclaren are developing crap cars. They are not that far off the pace. I dont think that there are very many "crap" cars in F1 at all. Factor Schumacher into any equation and see what would happen. As far as being boring, I'll admit I didnt watch it all
( although I would much rather watched it than spent the time painting my pergola) but watching cars going that speed, at 18000rpm is not boring. I wish Senna was still here. To see him against Schumacher would have quelled any chance of boredom.

Yes, Ferrari have an enormous budget. But so do Mclaren, Williams and Toyota. The reason I said they developed 'crap' cars, is that considering their budgets what they have delivered is crap. Look have Renault, Jaguar & BAR, nowhere near the same budget but they have a car that is comprabile to the budget.
Mclaren are losing the plot. I have 1 word for you: Mp18!!



Can we get a pic of the pergola?

Yes, let have a photo of the pergola :D

crisis
03-08-2004, 03:57 PM
Can we get a pic of the pergola?
Not quite finished. Probably 2009.

Deckard
03-08-2004, 04:05 PM
Not quite finished. Probably 2009.
That's got to be one big pergola.

:D

crisis
03-08-2004, 04:09 PM
That's got to be one big pergola.

:D
Im a slow worker.

henk4
03-09-2004, 12:25 AM
Im a slow worker.

Let's hope for more boring GP's then, because if there is anything I want to see....

Falcon500
03-09-2004, 03:58 AM
Im a slow worker. I say the same thing to...but im really a bludger :D

Alfahollic
03-09-2004, 04:10 AM
yes but they are also starting from scratch, they have absolutely no F1 experience compared to ferraris what? 60 years experience. i forsee toyota becoming a big threat when they start to take some risks in chassis developement (they already have a very powerfull engine).

When Toyota has 60 years Ferrari will have 120 years if were going to talk about it that way. Japs will never post a threat. Only when they start comming up with their own ideas!


I never said anything about revs I said all the cars are tuned to the razors edge which is another way of saying their on the limit.
QUOTE]

Hmm, yes i understood your razors edge remark. Thats why i said 19,000rpm, that to me is putting the engine to the "limit", you dont agree? I could have also said getting 800-900+Bhp from 3.0 is also at the razors edge.

[QUOTE]Man im really going to have to restrain what im really thinking, but can you give some consideration!! These teams are spending millions and millions of dollards per year to be in this sport. At one end of the field youve got Minardi and Jordan, at the other youve got BMW-Williams, McLaren and Ferrari. At the end of the day people like Jordan and Minardi dont need idiots telling them "aww good one Stoddart" or "way to blow a good race" because theyre cars were pulled out on mechanical failure. I wouldnt be replying with such passion to this if say, Hakkinnen fumbled a passing manouvre and went spearing into the tyre barriers, or Webber missed the brake and hit the accelerator going into a corner and likewise went into the tyre barriers. When the cars got problems all you can do is get it back to the workshop and try and fix the problem. Its the first race of the year also, and alot of people are out there in new cars. Sure some people like Schumacher will get something thats quick out of the box, but others like Webber and Hakkinnen won'y have that benefit and are going to expect something along the way to go wrong

Hey mate when barra suspension failed i said, "nice one ferrari, way to blow a race".

Each team should be prepared enough to get a car quick out the box like you say. They do so much testing, all i was saying is that Ferrari were the only team to manage that, and im not just picking on jaguar, but like i said first time they took the R5 or whateva its called onto the track for the first time and the gearbox failed, first race same porblem! You would think if they were going to post a threat they would have sorted it out. Okay.
Cheers.

henk4
03-09-2004, 05:15 AM
[QUOTE=Alfahollic]When Toyota has 60 years Ferrari will have 120 years if were going to talk about it that way. Japs will never post a threat. Only when they start comming up with their own ideas!


Are you old enough to remember the dominance of the Honda turbo engines in F1 before the TAG's? Do you remember the subsequent V12's and V10's?

Matra et Alpine
03-09-2004, 05:22 AM
When Toyota has 60 years Ferrari will have 120 years if were going to talk about it that way. Japs will never post a threat. Only when they start comming up with their own ideas!

Do you realise that was the mantra of the British bike industry in the 1970s.
All gone but one now :(

The Japanese engine designers were doing things in engines that STILL haven't been taken up by production companies.
The problem with Japan Inc that western capitalism doesn't grasp is their willingness to share their experiences.
So Jaguar, Rolls-Royce, Bentley, Mercedes, BMW, Renault, Fiat, Ferrari, Lamborghini, etc etc have spent the last 50 years all developing their OWN experience. Japan Inc has had 5 companies all SHARING their experience.
The only thing Japan manufacturers cannot match is the 'cachet' of brand names. Hence why they created Lexus :) It'll come and then look out.

fpv_gtho
03-09-2004, 05:23 AM
Japs will never post a threat. Only when they start comming up with their own ideas!


im sure alot of LeMans fans were thinking the same bloody thing pre 787B days as well

Also, you may think teams shoud be able to do X,Y and Z, but in the real world things don't happen at the click of your finger's. Money keeps these guys in the business, but time, effort and PATIENCE gets them results. I would have thought that someone could accept a car underperforming and experiencing faults for the FIRST RACE OF THE YEAR, but obviously you want them performing the same at Melbourne as they will in Rnd 18 or watever it is.

Falcon500
03-09-2004, 05:50 AM
Japs never post a threat....japs have done well in the past as henk brushed upon and thats a rather nieve way to think imo....the japense are very ingenious little people who are very good at thier motorsport (bitter words for me to utter) and have a bad habit of makeing previous ideas better! It makes me think of the group A toring car days when the r31 andlater r32 skylines dominated the races...this upset the purests greatly...and if many f1 fans have attudes like yours i can see a smilar event occuring one day...
And you never know reasherch can hobble a car especially if its a problem that occurs on race day and they never had it before....what the easy cure to that? that right there isnt one,there is fix it best you can make changes if possible and grit your teeth and hope for the best...its a repeated story throughout motorsport and more then likly will never been gotten rid of.

Misho
03-09-2004, 07:56 AM
That's what the conditions in Malaysia most likely are going to be, unless tropical rains will play up

can u guess what the conditions will be in Bahrain ??? they might need special modifications to the tyres for that one.
and dont worry about tropical rains! i dont know how anyone could wear the racing suit and sit in a hot racing cabin under 45 degrees celsuis conditions.
makes me wonder how and why the FIA accepted the Bahranian GP at that time of the year??

henk4
03-09-2004, 08:04 AM
makes me wonder how and why the FIA accepted the Bahranian GP at that time of the year??

Money

DasModell
03-09-2004, 03:09 PM
[QUOTE=Alfahollic]When Toyota has 60 years Ferrari will have 120 years if were going to talk about it that way. Japs will never post a threat. Only when they start comming up with their own ideas!


Are you old enough to remember the dominance of the Honda turbo engines in F1 before the TAG's? Do you remember the subsequent V12's and V10's?

it was after the TAG's .. :) :)

DasModell
03-09-2004, 03:21 PM
i will never understand ... why didn;t i say that F1 was boring in 96,97 or 98 .. ????? Ferrari getting beaten . and beaten quite good,, :( :( .. i remember being very upset(and i really mean very upset :) ) .. but why would i say it was boring. . i was wathcing F1 ... living with hope that ferrari can come back .... race after race ...

Deckard
03-09-2004, 03:59 PM
Money

And lots of it.

Also, I suspect that the tabacco advertising ban doesn't apply there.

Misho
03-09-2004, 05:14 PM
Also, I suspect that the tabacco advertising ban doesn't apply there.

isnt such a thing controlled by the FIA?? or is it upto each country's local regulations ?
anyways, lets just hope they used the tons of money they have to build an exciting track !!

DasModell
03-09-2004, 05:24 PM
tabac=money ..
and the circuits are not build with the FOCA money or something . they are usually buid with local money ..

Deckard
03-09-2004, 08:12 PM
The tabacco advertising regulation is controlled by indivitual countries. Some countries already implement this, which is why sometimes you see the name changed to something else but keeping the colour scheme.

However, the FIA have decreed that in 2006 (I think) tabacco sponsorship is to be completely banned from F1, and all teams will have to find alternative sponsorship.

fpv_gtho
03-09-2004, 10:50 PM
can u guess what the conditions will be in Bahrain ??? they might need special modifications to the tyres for that one.
and dont worry about tropical rains! i dont know how anyone could wear the racing suit and sit in a hot racing cabin under 45 degrees celsuis conditions.
makes me wonder how and why the FIA accepted the Bahranian GP at that time of the year??


Can't you get racing suits that have water circulating through them or something like have ice packs positioned inside the padding? The issue of heat was brought up for last years final round of the V8 Supercars where the drivers would be driving at 40+ temperatures and inside the car it would increase to something like 60 degrees

henk4
03-10-2004, 01:19 AM
it was after the TAG's .. :) :)


You'r right, thanks for the correction. Later on the Macs also used the Hondas.

Alfahollic
03-10-2004, 03:55 AM
Cant remember what team it is in the V8 supercars but i heard that one of them has an airconditioning unit of some sort? Any one know any more about it?

For my jap comments, I just don't like jap crap, and any motorsport fanatic knows they have used other manufactures ideas (coppied) many times I could make a list. Honda still put DOHC on their cam covers, now i know that Alfa and im only using Alfa coz i know they had DOHC and 5 speed box's front rear disc brakes sodium cooled exhaust valves in the 60's production cars, and a lot earlier than that in racing cars '30s- Other manufactures like AUDI etc proberly had it same time as well not sure tho so i quoted Alfa.

fpv_gtho
03-10-2004, 04:00 AM
Cant remember what team it is in the V8 supercars but i heard that one of them has an airconditioning unit of some sort? Any one know any more about it?


Paul Morris/Sirromet Wines Racing. He's been developing it for a while and just stuck it in this season. It apparently makes the in-cabin temperature around 15 degrees or something, unless its 15 degrees it drops the temperature

henk4
03-10-2004, 04:01 AM
The Peugeot Grand Prix car of 1913 had the first DOHC/4 valve engine, so the Italians have copied that!?. As Matra already said, have a look at the Honda GP motorcycles from the sixties, using 6 cylinder 250 cc engines screaming at more than 20,000 revs. Be careful that your prejudice does not go so far as saying that Japanese cars have round wheels, which they surely must have copied from the guy who invented the wheel and forgot to patent it.

Deckard
03-10-2004, 02:08 PM
Be careful that your prejudice does not go so far as saying that Japanese cars have round wheels, which they surely must have copied from the guy who invented the wheel and forgot to patent it.

Quite right.
There are very few original ideas these days. 99% of stuff is either a copy or an adaptation of an idea.

crisis
03-10-2004, 04:22 PM
I would never buy an Alfa and have never owned one, so my observations are based purely on what I have heard and read. My understanding is that at least until recently, they were poorly built and rather unreliable. I am in no way a blind advocate of Japanese cars , but on balance they have had a reputation for being the exact opposite for many years now. Therefore the fact that Alfa used a certain technology first and the Japanese second is immaterial when Alfa seemingly did it poorly and the Japanese ( althought the term is somewhat general ) in most cases, do it quite well.

Matra et Alpine
03-10-2004, 06:02 PM
I would never buy an Alfa and have never owned one, so my observations are based purely on what I have heard and read. My understanding is that at least until recently, they were poorly built and rather unreliable. I am in no way a blind advocate of Japanese cars , but on balance they have had a reputation for being the exact opposite for many years now. Therefore the fact that Alfa used a certain technology first and the Japanese second is immaterial when Alfa seemingly did it poorly and the Japanese ( althought the term is somewhat general ) in most cases, do it quite well.The Alfa Twin Cam was one of the sweetest engines !
Yes it was highly strung, needed to be serviced and maintained.
But if you want performance, it has to come with SOME cost.
Alfa's worst was the AlfaSud and again not because of the excellent boxer engine but due to rust.
Many cars of the late 70s/early 80s were similar - something was messed up in the European steel industry at the time :)
The reference back to Alfa's twin cam 50 years before that was jsut to point out the error in drawing a line and suggesting only the Japanese have copied and improved.
All nations and companies do !!
I'd recommend you try an Alfa, they are 'spirited' and a joy to drive ( and listen to :) )

crisis
03-10-2004, 11:02 PM
The Alfa Twin Cam was one of the sweetest engines !
Yes it was highly strung, needed to be serviced and maintained.
But if you want performance, it has to come with SOME cost.
Alfa's worst was the AlfaSud and again not because of the excellent boxer engine but due to rust.
Many cars of the late 70s/early 80s were similar - something was messed up in the European steel industry at the time :)
The reference back to Alfa's twin cam 50 years before that was jsut to point out the error in drawing a line and suggesting only the Japanese have copied and improved.
All nations and companies do !!
I'd recommend you try an Alfa, they are 'spirited' and a joy to drive ( and listen to :) )
A couple of the new ones look pretty good, I'll admit, but front wheel drive and the cost of them here means 'Ill be looking elsewhere.

Alfahollic
03-11-2004, 03:59 AM
Alfa's worst was the AlfaSud and again not because of the excellent boxer engine but due to rust.

My dad is working on a sud at the moment and it has not a bit of rust, if you treat your cars nicely they last. Yes the sud, 33 and 146 boxer engines were very sweet.


The Peugeot Grand Prix car of 1913 had the first DOHC/4 valve engine, so the Italians have copied that!?

The history of Alfa Romeo actually started in France. Car manufacturer Alexandre Darracq started up a factory in Portello near by Milan. In this factory cars with one or two cylinder engines were build from parts imported from Paris. This project was not that succesfull as Alexandre Darracq hoped for and in 1909 he sold his factory to the Italian Anonima Lombarda Fabbrica Automobili, shortly A.L.F.A.

henk4
03-11-2004, 04:14 AM
It may please you that generally Alfa's worst is considered to be the Arna, which was a Nissan Sunny fitted with the Sud boxer.

Matra et Alpine
03-11-2004, 04:15 AM
My dad is working on a sud at the moment and it has not a bit of rust, if you treat your cars nicely they last. Yes the sud, 33 and 146 boxer engines were very sweet.
Work colelague had a Sud and a 33 Cloverleaf.
The other thing I remembered is the gearchange.
When I first tried it, it was awful, very hard to get it into gear.
The gearchange seemed to not be very positive and hard to quickly change gear. He said that once you got used to it, it was VERY easy. Trying to force it never worked. But gentle guiding did. He was able to change up/down VERY quickly and sweetly.
In the TC and the boxer, Alfa always manage to make an engine sound 'nice'.
We used to joke that they must have an audio engineer on the design team who's job it is to make it sound right :)

Matra et Alpine
03-11-2004, 04:16 AM
It may please you that generally Alfa's worst is considered to be the Arna, which was a Nissan Sunny fitted with the Sud boxer.
Was that in the days when it was DATSUN ?
They rusted as quickly as 'suds in the UK !!
Hence the name change :)

henk4
03-11-2004, 04:41 AM
We used to joke that they must have an audio engineer on the design team who's job it is to make it sound right :)
Such engineers do exist, they have to develop the solid sound that a door makes when being closed.

henk4
03-11-2004, 04:42 AM
Was that in the days when it was DATSUN ?
They rusted as quickly as 'suds in the UK !!
Hence the name change :)

You'r right about Datsun, whether the Arna actually induced the name change I don't know.

Deckard
03-11-2004, 02:37 PM
We used to joke that they must have an audio engineer on the design team who's job it is to make it sound right :)
I wouldn't be a bit surprised.

In the same way that you can recognise a Ducati or Harley coming a mile away.
They both have a very distinct sound.

Actually, I heard a rumor that Harley have patented their "Hog" sound.

NAZCA C2
03-11-2004, 04:46 PM
I wouldn't be a bit surprised.

In the same way that you can recognise a Ducati or Harley coming a mile away.
They both have a very distinct sound.

Actually, I heard a rumor that Harley have patented their "Hog" sound.
Actually Ferrari and many other car makers do have technicians that work to make their cars have a special sound.

Matra et Alpine
03-11-2004, 04:57 PM
IActually, I heard a rumor that Harley have patented their "Hog" sound.
It's real.
The patent describes the sound as potato-potato

Matra et Alpine
03-11-2004, 05:00 PM
Actually Ferrari and many other car makers do have technicians that work to make their cars have a special sound.
The SMARTEST audio solution I've ever heard was Lotus - at least 10 years ago.
They had experimented on sound cancellation for one of the big companies.
The idea being to use the audio system to compensate for road noise etc etc.
As a spin-off they had developed ( and I believe patented ) an audio system to GENERATE engine noise. Again using the audio system.
The engineeer was driving along the road and would switch from 4 cylinder to V8 to BIG V8 at the touch of a button. It used engine rev to drive the spectrum generator for the audio feed.
It was bloody impressive :)

Deckard
03-11-2004, 07:24 PM
It's real.
The patent describes the sound as potato-potato


:D :D :D :D :D :D

Sorry that's not exactly the "macho" image that Harley try and promote, is it???

Matra et Alpine
03-11-2004, 07:42 PM
:D :D :D :D :D :D

Sorry that's not exactly the "macho" image that Harley try and promote, is it???
It works for the vegetarian, gay bikers - the Harley target market :)

Falcon500
03-12-2004, 03:23 AM
I work behind Alpine motors who specify in alfas puegots and other such crap...they fail to impress me by any standards! and ive seen one of the pugs blow more blooody blue smoke then ive ever seen in my life! ive seen race failures and they dont even compare to this!

Alfahollic
03-12-2004, 03:25 AM
Work colelague had a Sud and a 33 Cloverleaf.
The other thing I remembered is the gearchange.
When I first tried it, it was awful, very hard to get it into gear.
The gearchange seemed to not be very positive and hard to quickly change gear. He said that once you got used to it, it was VERY easy. Trying to force it never worked. But gentle guiding did. He was able to change up/down VERY quickly and sweetly.
In the TC and the boxer, Alfa always manage to make an engine sound 'nice'.
We used to joke that they must have an audio engineer on the design team who's job it is to make it sound right :)

Its really not a hard thing to overcome the very sloppy feel to the gearbox in the boxers. Takes around 15 minutes and slight engineering knowledge to make a short shift kit. Raising the point where the selector joins the gearstick by 17mm with a new hole works wonders.

Matra et Alpine
03-12-2004, 03:33 AM
I work behind Alpine motors who specify in alfas puegots and other such crap
Common language barrier warning !!!

"Alpine motors" is that a tuning company or service ?
'specify', is that Oz for sell or service ?

If you see cars going in and out of workshops then the likelihood is that you WILL see the broken ones.
After all the other 99% never see the workshop :)


...they fail to impress me by any standards! and ive seen one of the pugs blow more blooody blue smoke then ive ever seen in my life! ive seen race failures and they dont even compare to this!

Watch a car leave a garage after putting diesel into a petrol car !! Expensive :(

Also did you consider the driver ?
I've seen a guy at trackday continue to thrash his car even though it was obvious it had broken a ring !!
A few laps later and it was a piston and conrod through the block.
Some folks have no clue and make things worse.
Unfortunately the car cannot choose the driver :)

Falcon500
03-12-2004, 04:09 AM
Common language barrier warning !!!

"Alpine motors" is that a tuning company or service ?
'specify', is that Oz for sell or service ?

If you see cars going in and out of workshops then the likelihood is that you WILL see the broken ones.
After all the other 99% never see the workshop :):)
This place is a specialty joint that modify fix and even sell them...




Watch a car leave a garage after putting diesel into a petrol car !! Expensive :(

Also did you consider the driver ?
I've seen a guy at trackday continue to thrash his car even though it was obvious it had broken a ring !!
A few laps later and it was a piston and conrod through the block.
Some folks have no clue and make things worse.
Unfortunately the car cannot choose the driver :) Well the bloke worked for the place thats part of the reason for my suprise that his car at a specialty place is running like a bucket of crap! And they have many many cars out the back in various states of decay...ive seen cars that have been parkedin field since the 40s with less rust...i feel i need a tetnus shot just by looking at them!...my take on it the cars dont seem hardy...and dont raise a pulse...views i think youll respect to some extent...

Matra et Alpine
03-12-2004, 04:36 AM
my take on it the cars dont seem hardy...and dont raise a pulse...views i think youll respect to some extent...
Sounds like a dumping ground for broken cars :(
If it's run-off-the-mill cars then they won't survive the OZ out-of-town roads very well !!
If you overlooked a similar dealership for Japanese cars I think you'd make the same conclusion :)

BTW, re the guy's car. it's quite common to find a professional makes no effort in his own life ! Otherwise it gets difficult to survive :)

Falcon500
03-12-2004, 04:47 AM
Well i rarely see anything but run of the mill pugs anyways damned expesive when new and worth a song and a dance 10 years later...personally i think thats the cruel joke about euro cars here...that and the costof parts!
For that note on jap cars alli need to do is look out the back window of the house to see a very bastardized datsun sunny :D They dont last long either if you dont care for them But parts are cheaper and there more common and cheaper here.
Well i dont doubt that visually its a not bad looking car hardly a mark on it but when he started it WELL....i was wondering where james bond was with his smoke screen :D For something i dont like very much already does not speak very well for them.

Ferrari Tifosi
03-13-2004, 05:19 PM
Well Ferrari looks to be very strong this year, but I don't believe they're unbeatable. Williams and Renault also had strong starts. However, I was very dissapointed in McLaren. Hopefully they'll have a better setup car for Malaysia.

Matra et Alpine
03-13-2004, 05:25 PM
Well Ferrari looks to be very strong this year, but I don't believe they're unbeatable. Williams and Renault also had strong starts. However, I was very dissapointed in McLaren. Hopefully they'll have a better setup car for Malaysia.
Mercedes engine seems down on power AGAIN !!
It's getting embarrassing for M-B, they don't seem to be able to produce a creidble F1 engine. Expect serious ramifications if Renault turn up a reliable engine AND with the power to win. SOMEONE at M-B needs moved off this project :(

bum-man
03-14-2004, 08:51 PM
not an MB it is a Ilmor more than anything...its the only engine that is not built in house by the brand it supports.
there is a quote by de la rosa saying that the engine is on par with last years performance (hp) the only reason why it seems to be down on power is lack of air getting to the radiators (the mp4-19 is arguably the most compact chassis out there) so they have to reduce the revvs to reduce the heat. either way its not only the engine thats suffering, Macs aero departement isnt doing to great either.

here is de la Rosas article about a month ago if you are interested.
http://f1.racing-live.com/en/headlines/news/detail/040204162925.shtml

Ferrari Tifosi
03-14-2004, 11:39 PM
Mercedes engine seems down on power AGAIN !!
It's getting embarrassing for M-B, they don't seem to be able to produce a creidble F1 engine. Expect serious ramifications if Renault turn up a reliable engine AND with the power to win. SOMEONE at M-B needs moved off this project :(

M-B needs to get on Ilmor Engineering, since it is them who actually engineer and manufacture the Mercedes engine.

Ferrari Tifosi
03-14-2004, 11:40 PM
not an MB it is a Ilmor more than anything...its the only engine that is not built in house by the brand it supports.
there is a quote by de la rosa saying that the engine is on par with last years performance (hp) the only reason why it seems to be down on power is lack of air getting to the radiators (the mp4-19 is arguably the most compact chassis out there) so they have to reduce the revvs to reduce the heat. either way its not only the engine thats suffering, Macs aero departement isnt doing to great either.

here is de la Rosas article about a month ago if you are interested.
http://f1.racing-live.com/en/headlines/news/detail/040204162925.shtml

just realized I responded practically as you did, sorry.

Matra et Alpine
03-15-2004, 03:05 AM
....the engine is on par with last years performance (hp)
Well they've failed right away.
In F1 no team can afford to be putting last years performance and hope to win.
It wasn't near the top last year :(

Macs aero departement isnt doing to great either.
That depends on the parameters given by the engine builders.
Their estimates will guide the chassis designers to determine necessary air-flow.
With modern CFD packages a computer can get within a few percent of realistic airflow calculations.
I think M-B have not had a recovery plan for the loss of Aluminium-Berylliom from the engine construction :)

and sorry but trying to save M-B rep by saying it's Ilmor that do the engine.
Project MANAGERS carry the can if a sub-conrtact is not up to the job !!
M-B chose to use Ilmor, they clearly decided that was a better option than trying to build the skill in-house.
Renault may yet embarrass them using in-hosue approach :)

henk4
03-15-2004, 03:15 AM
It's simple, when the engine works it's an MB and when there are problems it's an Ilmor.

Matra et Alpine
03-15-2004, 03:19 AM
It's simple, when the engine works it's an MB and when there are problems it's an Ilmor.
and last year when the engine was down on power, McLaren drivers and team-members were banned from saying it was the engine :)

henk4
03-15-2004, 04:14 AM
and last year when the engine was down on power, McLaren drivers and team-members were banned from saying it was the engine :)

as always, success has many fathers, failure is an orphan.

bum-man
03-15-2004, 11:52 AM
It's simple, when the engine works it's an MB and when there are problems it's an Ilmor.
actually its the otherway around.

bum-man
03-15-2004, 11:55 AM
and last year when the engine was down on power, McLaren drivers and team-members were banned from saying it was the engine :)
last years engine wasnt down on power it actually had quite good power...infact last years chassis was showing its age rather than an underpowered engine. the merc/Ilmor was speculated to have ~890-900 as apposed to Toyotas, BMWs, and Ferraris ~920

Alfahollic
03-16-2004, 05:31 AM
I thought the mp4-19 was suppost to be gods gift to Formula One with that "powerfull" mercedes engine? Why cant they get this car to work out and be succesfull, well see this weekend i suppose...

fpv_gtho
03-16-2004, 05:38 AM
Well Malaysia might not only prove the reliability of the Mercedes/McLaren engines, but give us viewers a hint at whether we'll see another dominant season from Ferrari with the Bridgestones or if the Michelins show their stuff in the Hotter weather and the likes of Williams-BMW, MB-McLaren and maybe even Renault can bring the fight right up to the Italians......as its been discussed at length previously

DasModell
03-16-2004, 03:52 PM
Well they've failed right away.
In F1 no team can afford to be putting last years performance and hope to win.
It wasn't near the top last year :(



with the changed regulations .. some constructors have stated either they have reduced the weight and kept the power or they incresed the power but also the weight ..
it's not that uncommon for constructors to have the engines built by other companies .. Renault had done that with Mecachrome

henk4
03-17-2004, 12:49 AM
it's not that uncommon for constructors to have the engines built by other companies .. Renault had done that with Mecachrome

It is actually the other way round, when Renault withdrew officially, a new company was set up to continue to supply some teams with engines, this company was named Mecachrome. It stopped its activities after two years or so.