Farewell GTO

[Schmallz]

Its official, Pontiac is cutting the GTO. The last models will be delivered in september.
Now Pontiacs only RWD car will be the Solstice and those are a limited production(make more you idiots). The problem with the GTO is that it didn't look like the classic GTO, don't get me wrong, the 6.0 liter can run with the
M3s no problem, it is a great car, it looks awesome, except for the back, Pontiac would have sold a lot more if they designed one from the ground up.
Thats pontiacs problem, not designing their own cars. The Vibe is a Matrix, and the GTO is a Monaro. The Vipe sucks i don't see why they even bothered, i have ridden in one and there are no arm wrests, what the hell how am i supposed to relax with out my arm wrests.
Now Pontiac says it wants to be the American BMW with performance across the board, then they better start converting all their cars to RWD and give them a lot of gitty up.
Look foreward to a new Pontiac flag ship in 2009, if Chevy makes a new camaro, the pontiac will probaly be a firebird or another, more agressive GTO.

One last thing, if GM isn't planning on any high performance family cars then they might as well declare bankrumptcy (i think thats how you spell it).

[mclaren_crazy]

bankruptcy

[coolieman1220]

i coulda told u all this before they made the new GTO

[nopassn]

good riddance... you shouldn't use a retro name without some retro styling cues, especially not on a muscle car icon like the GTO. Also, an Austrailian GTO - blasphemy!

[h00t_h00t]

I think GM have dumped the monaro outside of Australia, because its no longer available in Britain either.

[shadesMC]

i always liked the new GTO, but thats probably because

1. i'm not old enough to be able to compare it to a REAL GTO
2. it's the closest i can get to an HSV Coupe

[baddabang]

I hope they go with the transam rather then the firebird.

[clutch-monkey]

I think GM have dumped the monaro outside of Australia, because its no longer available in Britain either.
its vice versa - holden has stopped production (they don't want to make any more, worn tooling etc) so exports are stopping :)

i always liked the new GTO, but thats probably because

1. i'm not old enough to be able to compare it to a REAL GTO
2. it's the closest i can get to an HSV Coupe
i'm curious to know if any american GTO owners have actually swapped HSV kits/front fascia onto their cars, actually.

[Classic Anycar]

What about this body style? It's the 1999 GTO concept. Looks much better than the current one.

http://www.conceptcarposter.com/product_images/Pontiac_GTO.jpg

[clutch-monkey]

What about this body style? It's the 1999 GTO concept. Looks much better than the current one.

http://www.conceptcarposter.com/product_images/Pontiac_GTO.jpg
hahahahahahahaha i don't see what you mean
that car is a joke, like its from a cartoon

[rev440]

Its about time that cars ugly. They had the right idea behind the car with high horse for not a high price but its ugly. I wish it woulda worked out for them it seems like a good car but with mustangs selling like crazy because they look better and are cheaper. So basically a better desighn could have made all the difference. Plus its a pig

[nota]

hahahahahahahaha i don't see what you mean
that car is a joke, like its from a cartoon
Eew thats excessively yuck. Looks like a cheap old hooker - lots of wrinkles, all tits & no bra

[Fleet 500]

What about this body style? It's the 1999 GTO concept. Looks much better than the current one.

Well, it doesn't look anything like the real GTO's. Like the one below (a 1970 455).

[nota]

. Also, an Austrailian GTO - blasphemy!
Lots of supposedly 'real' GTOs weren't built in America, including this one :p

[sunk]

Their prices must be down for now-a good time to buy one.

When do we see a M5 competitior?

[Schmallz]

I hope they go with the transam rather then the firebird.

They probaly won't because they will have to pay royalties, maybe a firebird espirit would replace the Trans Am Name.

[shadesMC]

i'm curious to know if any american GTO owners have actually swapped HSV kits/front fascia onto their cars, actually.

couldn't tell ya. being that the car was only out a few years, and didnt sell too well, i've only seen a couple on the roads. they were all unmodified. i'm also willing to bet that most of the people actually buying them have never even heard of holden, either.

[jcp123]

That's too bad...although I'm a little reticent to say it deserved the GTO name, I actually kinda liked that car. If I had to buy a new car (hey, it could happen...if somebody held a gun to my head and gave me the money), it would probably be the GTO, a nice executive express with a pushrod V8.

[nota]

i'm curious to know if any american GTO owners have actually swapped HSV kits/front fascia onto their cars, actually.
I've seen a few US (Pontiac) GTOs with HSV kits, but Monaro-ised GTOs seemed more popular

[Radoman]

Man, you guys are idiots.. except maybe jcp123.

The GTO has always been about being a wolf in sheeps clothing. So the new one looked like a grand am from a distance; what a perfect cover!

Truthfully, it looks just fine. It's clean and undisturbed by all the usual assortment of fins, wings, and faux air intakes (except perhaps the 6.0 with the optional hood scoops, but even that's fairly subtle.) that plague most american cars. It's also free from that lame "retro" look that plagues other american cars, such as the mustang, the upcoming camaro, and also the upcoming challenger.

It's all about the performance, which the GTO had in spades. It handled well and had a corvette motor, which is basically gaurenteed performance.

Personally, the new GTO is one of the few american cars I ever kinda liked. It sucks to see it go.

For the record, Schmazz, the Pontiac Vibe DOES have armrests. It also drives a whole hell of a lot better than the Sunfire and Wave.

[nota]

It's all about the performance, which the GTO had in spades.
Unfortunately in the US its all about the badge :rolleyes:

Apparently how it performs & drives rates a big 2nd to retro 'homage'. Because all most people saw was the badge (and not the actual car sitting underneath said badge) quite a few canny buyers bought runout '04s & '05s GTOs for similar (or less) to equivalent-model Mustang prices - eg US$28k was not untypical. Cheapest new GTO price-claim I've seen was approx $26,750 driveaway

[TVR IS KING]

Its official, Pontiac is cutting the GTO. The last models will be delivered in september.
Now Pontiacs only RWD car will be the Solstice and those are a limited production(make more you idiots). The problem with the GTO is that it didn't look like the classic GTO, don't get me wrong, the 6.0 liter can run with the
M3s no problem, it is a great car, it looks awesome, except for the back, Pontiac would have sold a lot more if they designed one from the ground up.
Thats pontiacs problem, not designing their own cars. The Vibe is a Matrix, and the GTO is a Monaro. The Vipe sucks i don't see why they even bothered, i have ridden in one and there are no arm wrests, what the hell how am i supposed to relax with out my arm wrests.
Now Pontiac says it wants to be the American BMW with performance across the board, then they better start converting all their cars to RWD and give them a lot of gitty up.
Look foreward to a new Pontiac flag ship in 2009, if Chevy makes a new camaro, the pontiac will probaly be a firebird or another, more agressive GTO.

One last thing, if GM isn't planning on any high performance family cars then they might as well declare bankrumptcy (i think thats how you spell it).

Holden cut the monaro, Pontiac cut the GTO. They have no base anymore, no one to get it shipped from. No means of supplying! The posts here keep talking about it like Pontiac has ANY say in the matter, but its all because Holden cut the Monaro...

[stian1979]

I like the old american car's but the new ones is a joke.
Time change and 4-valve tecnology is invented and push roads is out long time ago. What about geting some stiffer suspension if you want to compete against the BMW?

Use the clasic lines from the 60's and 70's because I love them, but what about a 32 valve aluminium 350 V8 with turbos? some adustable suspension so it would stick to the road? I had a U.S Chrysler stratus and that suspension was stiff enough for a famelycar, but it's f... front weel driven.
GM has lutus under it's belt so why not get some help from them? I'm shure they got lots of experience from F1 there own cars and the Opel speedster and the Opel Omega Lotus. You have the resorces to make a BMW killer with a minimum of developmet work so please do it. If I was in charge I know what I would do.

[2ndclasscitizen]

I like the old american car's but the new ones is a joke.
Time change and 4-valve tecnology is invented and push roads is out long time ago. What about geting some stiffer suspension if you want to compete against the BMW? if it ain't broke, don't fix it. The LS2 is a 6lt pushrod, but is lighter, revs harder and makes more hp and torque than the 5.4 lt DOHC 32v Ford BOSS


GM has lutus under it's belt so why not get some help from them? I'm shure they got lots of experience from F1 there own cars and the Opel speedster and the Opel Omega Lotus. You have the resorces to make a BMW killer with a minimum of developmet work so please do it. If I was in charge I know what I would do. Jesus, what rock have you been living under? GM hasn't owned Lotus for years

[fpv_gtho]

if it ain't broke, don't fix it. The LS2 is a 6lt pushrod, but is lighter, revs harder and makes more hp and torque than the 5.4 lt DOHC 32v Ford BOSS

Thats apples and oranges.

[shadesMC]

GM makes what they feel like making, they haven't heard of the term "market research." at this point, also, i think they should be a lot more focused on not being bought by a foreign company than on defeating BMW.

[SlickHolden]

To all that said the 04-06 GTO didn't look enough like the OOOOOOOOOOOOLD GTO's. It's hard to make a car when the last time it was made was before i was born:p.
And because it doesn't have it's looks doesn't mean it doesn't share it's characteristics, Big Engine plenty of power 4 seats 2 doors. Based off a family car.
They have plenty in common the GTO and Monaro.
The Monaro doesnt look like the past Monaro at all. Not many gave a shit.



I like the old american car's but the new ones is a joke.
Time change and 4-valve tecnology is invented and push roads is out long time ago. What about geting some stiffer suspension if you want to compete against the BMW?

Use the clasic lines from the 60's and 70's because I love them, but what about a 32 valve aluminium 350 V8 with turbos? some adustable suspension so it would stick to the road? I had a U.S Chrysler stratus and that suspension was stiff enough for a famelycar, but it's f... front weel driven.
GM has lutus under it's belt so why not get some help from them? I'm shure they got lots of experience from F1 there own cars and the Opel speedster and the Opel Omega Lotus. You have the resorces to make a BMW killer with a minimum of developmet work so please do it. If I was in charge I know what I would do.
Proton owns Lotus.
I don't get you, More modern engines but older looks??:rolleyes:
All them little goodies you speak about would cost a bucket load, To first make test develop then stick into production.
GM had the chance with holden to have a OHC V8 but money money money.

Unfortunately in the US its all about the badge :rolleyes:

Apparently how it performs & drives rates a big 2nd to retro 'homage'. Because all most people saw was the badge (and not the actual car sitting underneath said badge) quite a few canny buyers bought runout '04s & '05s GTOs for similar (or less) to equivalent-model Mustang prices - eg US$28k was not untypical. Cheapest new GTO price-claim I've seen was approx $26,750 driveaway
You forgot image.
The new Stang outside hot, Inside Shit. Look at it in the day drive it at night so you can't see that intiria.
GTO. Looks un mean. Intiria hot as.

[P4g4nite]

When do we see a M5 competitior?
From GM? Well they might challenge the E34 M5 sometime in the future..

[SlickHolden]

Send in the VE HSV's:p With 7LT's;)

[shadesMC]

i think its going to be a while before we see M5 competition. GM has no trouble building powerful engines, but overall quality and luxury of that calibur i have yet to see from them.

[scottie300z]

As far as the looks go, The old gto's were normal "family" looking cars w/ big engines. The new gto's were normal "family" looking cars w/ big engines. It may not have the styling cues, but the setup is the same, just brought into the new millenium.

And i didnt care for either. The new one wasnt THAT bad, but stiff competition in an already weak market.....

Sometimes it does seem like GM just sits around and says "I know we will ...." w/o doing any research. Which is what alot of people here do when they say "I know what i would do" you'd most likely have the same, if not worse, results. Its alot more complicated then trying to build a "cool" car.

[pAinTrAin]

I knew it would happen.:(

[SlickHolden]

i think its going to be a while before we see M5 competition. GM has no trouble building powerful engines, but overall quality and luxury of that calibur i have yet to see from them.
You didnt think the GTO was all quality?

[shadesMC]

no no, don't get me wrong i LOVE the GTO, sat in a couple and wanted it to be mine. but its interior can not be compared to an M5, which is what pontiac's new goal is. i believe someone said that pontiac wants to be the "american BMW."

yes, it is a quality and luxurious ride, but there are many levels of luxury, and they haven't reached bmw's level yet.

[shadesMC]

oh btw off topic question - what does the little yield sign mean, the one next to a lot of people's little rating circle thinger?

[Matra et Alpine]

oh btw off topic question - what does the little yield sign mean, the one next to a lot of people's little rating circle thinger?
If you hover over it a tip should be displayed explaining it's for reporting bad posts to the mods.

[Schmallz]

For the record, Schmazz, the Pontiac Vibe DOES have armrests. It also drives a whole hell of a lot better than the Sunfire and Wave.

Well i don't know what a sun fire or wave is, but the Vibe does not have arm rests, well at least the back seat doesn't (im talking about the door arw rests)
If it did have arm rests then they sucked, it was at least 2 years ago when i road in one.

[Schmallz]

Holden cut the monaro, Pontiac cut the GTO. They have no base anymore, no one to get it shipped from. No means of supplying! The posts here keep talking about it like Pontiac has ANY say in the matter, but its all because Holden cut the Monaro...

Why did holden cut it, was it not selling well, or was it just time to retire it.

[Schmallz]

You forgot image.
The new Stang outside hot, Inside Shit. Look at it in the day drive it at night so you can't see that intiria.
GTO. Looks un mean. Intiria hot as.

Well at least the new mustangs interior is an improvement of the 99-04 and the 95-98, i own a 2000 GT and the interior sucks, all black with no high lights or style, love the outside though.

[SlickHolden]

no no, don't get me wrong i LOVE the GTO, sat in a couple and wanted it to be mine. but its interior can not be compared to an M5, which is what pontiac's new goal is. i believe someone said that pontiac wants to be the "american BMW."

yes, it is a quality and luxurious ride, but there are many levels of luxury, and they haven't reached bmw's level yet.
It's only months away from the biggest make over of it's life. A all new car is soon to be released by Holden the makers of the GTO. The GTO is coming to the end now of a very long serves. 97 the VT Commodore was made. That in 99 made the Monaro concept and it went from there. So it rides on 9 year old Architecture. Now think about that and how good it is;) The next is said to be mind blowing.
The New Architecture has already been used on some concept cars like Camaro and Insignia. If you think the GTO was a good ride wait till the next one comes:D

[clutch-monkey]

Why did holden cut it, was it not selling well, or was it just time to retire it.
the tooling and machinery at the factory for the current monaro was old and worn after production since the monaro's introduction. plus the monaro has been here longer so sales were starting to slow, so holden thought it would be a good idea to retire ti whilethey were ahead.

[SlickHolden]

Well at least the new mustangs interior is an improvement of the 99-04 and the 95-98, i own a 2000 GT and the interior sucks, all black with no high lights or style, love the outside though.
That's the problem they scream image and all show and inside yuko.
Someone once said the Stangs body on the GTO engine stang tranny GTO intria perfect car:D

[Schmallz]

That's the problem they scream image and all show and inside yuko.
:D

its a start

[SlickHolden]

They need to borrow some of Ford Oz intiria designs:D

[stian1979]

if it ain't broke, don't fix it. The LS2 is a 6lt pushrod, but is lighter, revs harder and makes more hp and torque than the 5.4 lt DOHC 32v Ford BOSS

Jesus, what rock have you been living under? GM hasn't owned Lotus for years

Norway is not exsactly know for leting interesting cars slip into the country.
Car industri is none so information flow is low.


I don't get you, More modern engines but older looks??
All them little goodies you speak about would cost a bucket load, To first make test develop then stick into production.
GM had the chance with holden to have a OHC V8 but money money money.

Opel and saab produce v6 with DOHC and you have the Cadillac nortstar so why not? Cosworth and williams are able to develop a f1 V8 ferrari build ther own engines and www.atomracing.se made there own prototype and Koenigsegg build there own engine I think(not shure) GM is the largest car producer in the world so if they can't aford to develop a 32-valve engine for a BMW comptitor they should look into the way they spend there money.

[Schmallz]

no no, don't get me wrong i LOVE the GTO, sat in a couple and wanted it to be mine. but its interior can not be compared to an M5, which is what pontiac's new goal is. i believe someone said that pontiac wants to be the "american BMW."

yes, it is a quality and luxurious ride, but there are many levels of luxury, and they haven't reached bmw's level yet.

I was the one who said Pontiac wants to be the American BMW, not nessicarly compete with them, just have the same principle, performance across the board. Cadillac is the one competeing with BMW, and they are doing a damn good job.

The Owner of a Pontiac dealer was the one who explaind the BMW thing with me and my parents when we were looking for a Solstice.

[jcp123]

I always thought Olds was a much better fit for competing with BMW, given its history...Cad would be a fantastic player agains Lexus, and Pontiac I think should be sort of the division that sells stripped-down, high-performance models of other GM cars.

[nota]

When comparing GTO to expensive BMW M5 (a compliment in itself) is price a relevant factor at all or should we throw in Rolls Royce as well? :rolleyes:

[ZeTurbo]

good riddance... you shouldn't use a retro name without some retro styling cues, especially not on a muscle car icon like the GTO. Also, an Austrailian GTO - blasphemy!
SO TRUE!

I rather have a Solstice than a GTO (holden) to be honest. So much better looking, ragtop, lightwieght and is suposed to be inspiring in twisty roads.

[pAinTrAin]

Well at least the new mustangs interior is an improvement of the 99-04 and the 95-98, i own a 2000 GT and the interior sucks, all black with no high lights or style, love the outside though.


Seen the Camaro s new interior....I say sexy:D

[jcp123]

Hey, i thought the '94-'98 body was the best of the modern Mustangs, especially the '94's with the 5.0 but before the evil EEC-V with OBD-II was required in '95 (the '94 still had airbags though...grr). This generation did things right...original Mustang cues without trying to rape the originals like the current Mustangs do. For example, tri-bar taillights, side scoops, and dual-cowl interior. IDEAS that were copied from the original without molesting the LOOKS of the real Mustangs.

[SlickHolden]

Norway is not exsactly know for leting interesting cars slip into the country.
Car industri is none so information flow is low.



Opel and saab produce v6 with DOHC and you have the Cadillac nortstar so why not? Cosworth and williams are able to develop a f1 V8 ferrari build ther own engines and www.atomracing.se made there own prototype and Koenigsegg build there own engine I think(not shure) GM is the largest car producer in the world so if they can't aford to develop a 32-valve engine for a BMW comptitor they should look into the way they spend there money.
A LS7 in the right car would do a BMW. It wouldn't matter if it had 2vpc OHV.
But this Northstar engine does it have high capacity? I know nothing of it.
Back in the late 80's holden built a 5LT OHC V8. Today if let produce it that engine would be something real good today.
But GM doesn't need to make a Global DOHC V8 like they did with the V6. Chev's V8 is one of the best V8's in the world, There really is no reason now to use anything else. And it's light and cheap and packs a huge punch.

SO TRUE!

I rather have a Solstice than a GTO (holden) to be honest. So much better looking, ragtop, lightwieght and is suposed to be inspiring in twisty roads.
The GTO was much more then looks;). Problem was pontiac stuck darth vaders helmet on the front end:p
But I'll stake my Reputation on this.... Sorry Mitusb:D I bet the GTO was better build better backed better quality more refined then any GM car in the U.S For under $40,000. And think it's based of a VT Commodore which was first built in 97. Now think if that car was good what will the next one be:D
The Camaro's skin hides all holden underneath.
Pontiac could have made the GTO so many things, The UK used all Holden's and HSV's kits. Pontiac stuffed that up. A couple of What the GTO could have been. You can't blame the car but you can blame the people that gave it the look marketed it. One car will rock some socks it's called a Bitter.
http://car-reviews.automobile.com/images/cars/ArtImages/22833/inline_01.jpg http://car-reviews.automobile.com/images/cars/ArtImages/22833/inline_03.jpg http://car-reviews.automobile.com/images/cars/ArtImages/22833/inline_02.jpg http://car-reviews.automobile.com/images/cars/ArtImages/22833/inline_04.jpg
See what can be done with a effort. Same car its the Holden Monaro.

[Sid447]

Northstar,

Is a 4.6 dohc, all alloy V8 used in Cadillacs. Introduced in the early 90's I think. It had a terrible gestation period (serious reliability problems) ...though it's a very good engine now.
http://jadcock.oldsgmail.com/cadsls/northstar.htm
http://www.gm.com/automotive/gmpowertrain/engines/northstar/index.htm

Another hi-tech all-alloy V8. The Lotus developed all alloy dohc LT5 5.7 V8 for the C4 Vette ZR1 was developed in the late 80's.
http://www.eurovettes.com/zr1_home.htm



Nothing wrong with the GM Gen 3 & 4 pushrod V8's though. A lot more simple and compact than any dohc V8. And are proving to be reliable and oil-leak free with impressive power!


But talking of the end of GTO/Monaro/VZ........Don't get me wrong here, I own and am very attached to a Holden Commodore.
The origin of most if not all Holden Commodores (and other Holden models) came from GM Europe.
It's not about nationality here; it's about a global car maker keeping things simple and cost effective.
The Monaro/GTO/Commodore chassis/floorpan came from the last GM-E Omega which was designed and built in from the early 90's to around 2002. Holden took the platform and produced the car we know from '97. Substituting the dohc 4 cylinder and V6 's for Holden's version of a Camaro spec Gen 3 V8 (from MY99). along with Tremecs T56 and the GM 4L60-E transmissions.
If you put a GM-Europe Omega and any of the models from VT to VZ ( that's '97 to '05 model Commodore, or any of the CV8's or GTOs) ...side-by-side on car hoists and inspected underneath both cars, you'd find the floorpan is identical and 90% of the components too and could be interchanged between the cars.

Opel even made one with a Gen 3 V8:
http://www.conceptcarz.com/vehicle/z2920/Opel_Omega%20V8/default.aspx

The Opel Omega was also exported for a short time as the Cadillac Catera in the USA. Which was basically a re-badged but not re-engineered 3.0L or 3.2L V6* Omega.
* This is now known as the Alloytec and is also made in 3.6litre capacity for some markets since the GM/Buick 3.8 ohv iron V6 ceased production a few years ago.

[adrenaline]

Some nice info, but the thread is pretty stale now. Try not to bring back dead threads too often, unless you have something super to add :)

PS: Not 'all' Holden Commodores are from Europe. The newest is an Aussie. And hardly any Holden models are being sourced from europe now as Holden is looking to Korea.

[SlickHolden]

I think people still think that the commodore is a Opel. A couple of short and quick points here, Holden longer wheelbase, Wider track, Width length height all different. Boot capacity also. And when it comes to the IRS holden bought that off Opel which was started in the 70's.
Now also some holden being sold overseas could be mistaken for a Opel omega thats another thing.
Another good point is every part of the exterior isn't interchangeable.
But if you go back more then 10 years maybe a different story.
Now i know this for 100% truth... GM didn't want holden to build a car after VS and they had no plans for a V8. They just wanted holden to use the omega as it was. Buick wanted a car they got a reprieve and lucky for GM they built the VT cause it started something made holden bigger.


Trust me don't think the cars are 90% the same they are far from it. They have never been a Opel omega sent to Australia and then given a Aussie accent never happen. Holden had to build it from scratch as they just couldn't manipulate the car enough so it was just easier to build it to there specs.
Just got something interesting, Both Omega and commodore were same ground clearance, 150mm. But there was a 10mm height difference. That was the Opel omega Gen3 and the VY Executive. It might only be 10mm in height but it's more in width wheelbase length.

does anyone know if the Opel omega has a glued on firewall?.