Rice burners

[cobrapower]

I want to know what the fascination with civics is? What sense of logic is there in buying a 15,000-20,000 dollar civic, dropping upwards of 30-40k into it, and adding an expensive body kit to turn it into a sportscar? Personally, if i had that kind of money, i could do just as well, without nitrous, in a nice american sportscar. Even a german car! Give me a break, i dont see the logic in all that.

[Kossy]

Well its great because you put all that money in, and it depreciates the value of the car, so come time to settle it, because you have fiddled with the carefully calculated manufacturer settings, more likely than not uglyfied it and more likely than not drove it very hard you actually lose money!

I dont see what you are complaining about.

[GTS25t]

I think it is a phenomenon localised in Northern America. Here in Aus. ppl do tart up their Civics and other hot hatches but very few will commit to the levels you are discussing there. Thanks to the local obsession with V8s and the healthy grey-import of Japanese performance cars, we don't seem to have the "civic/honda plague" that many Americans report of.

I too do not understand the fascination some ppl have with tarting up front-drive hatch-backs. Some of them are decent, especially the ones that have money spent on lsds, uprated braking and proper suspension work, but most just fit a crappy exhaust system and spend the rest of the money on a body kit, paint job, decals, gauges and lights. :rolleyes:

I guess to these ppl, their car is a reflection of their image. They want everyone to think they are the real-deal but under the superficial top layers they got nothing.

[cobrapower]

Well its great because you put all that money in, and it depreciates the value of the car, so come time to settle it, because you have fiddled with the carefully calculated manufacturer settings, more likely than not uglyfied it and more likely than not drove it very hard you actually lose money!

That was the most confusing post ive read. You see nothing wrong with "uglifying" a car, and wasting money so you can sell the car for even less than its worth. Ill stick to my big V-8s thank you very much. At least those cars have a true soul, not some shaky facade and garbagey crap underneath. All throttle no bottle baby!

[NISMO SR20VETT]

Because theres like no respecatble american cars. Its not just civics people will mod. I personaly like Nissans. American cars are pretty much oversized, overrated, and pos cars that only somone with the IQ of a texan would like. European cars are the best but the jdm definetly comes second. Anyone can take a 8 liter engine put it in a rwd car with big tires and have a car the does good 1/4 mile times. But when you do the same with 2 litres or around that, then the car should be respected. Im not saying i support these jackasses that drop no2 into civics and get aesthetic changes, im just saying you american only guys should give credit were credit is due. Cause you guys have your posers too.

[Egg Nog]

Well sure you can argue about technology, but there's still loads of import tuners who care a lot about pure engine power. So, what better way to do it than a naturally aspirated V8? I don't consider myself biased - I love European, Japanese, and American cars - but I must one thing: As long as you get the power that you want, who cares how you get it? It just tends to be cheaper if you go the route of transplanting a bigger engine.

What really pisses me off is when people of with huge prejudices go shooting their mouths off about other countries' cars and engines being "inferior". I'm sick of hearing "Japanese engines are no good because they're too small" or the commonly heard "V8s are inferior because they just are". What a load of bull :) Every engine is designed to suit the car that it's built for. A dragster V8 is made for (take a wild guess) raw power and enough torque to counter-rotate a small planet. 2 litre Japanese economy car engines are made for just that - economy - and if you ask me, they do it better than any other manufacturers. It's hard to beat the efficiency and reliability of these little technological engines.

But anyway, you get my point. People who want to modify their car to have raw, sporty power can take whatever route they want. The cheapest, most gainful route, however, would be a massive engine :)

Each to his own.

[Kossy]

Originally posted by cobrapower
That was the most confusing post ive read. You see nothing wrong with "uglifying" a car, and wasting money so you can sell the car for even less than its worth. Ill stick to my big V-8s thank you very much. At least those cars have a true soul, not some shaky facade and garbagey crap underneath. All throttle no bottle baby! http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=sarcasm

[cobrapower]

. European cars are the best but the jdm definetly comes second. Anyone can take a 8 liter engine put it in a rwd car with big tires and have a car the does good 1/4 mile times. But when you do the same with 2 litres or around that, then the car should be respected.

First of all let me point out that i did not say that i dont respect someone that can take a car with a 2 liter disp. and make it go fast, i have a lot of respect for them, my point is that if you buy a car you should have a purpose behind it. On top of all this what are you smoking when you say that the U. S. has no good cars? Need i start naming cars for you, i..e. the Cobra, Viper, Corvette,and GT40(which broke the domiation of the ferraris at Le Mans). Not to mention the current GTS series domination by Saleen, and the C-5 corvette. I may have my bias toward american cars, but dont simply dismiss them as something that someone with an IQ of a "texan" would buy. Cause guess what, id buy these cars, and i would bet that i have at least 30 IQ points on you, and that is being generous. I never said i disliked Euro cars either, personally some of my favorites are European, namely the Lotus 340R. Lets try evaluating the facts before dismissing powerful racing vehicles please!

O and by the way, im sorry Kossy, i was a little tired when i read that post. I see what you are talking about.

[Nash]

FYI, nobody with a civic puts $30,000 into their car, and if they did, you wouldn't be calling them rice.

What is it with stuck up, narrow-minded American car fans bitching about the way people(mostly kids) like to modifiy THEIR cars with THEIR money, and THEIR tastes?

When you can't afford a $20,000 Camaro SS, you buy a $7,000 Civic. Most civic drivers go for looks, not speed.

I understand why some people might be mad, because a lot of these kids shoot off their mouths. But the truth is, you have a lot more American fans shooting off their mouths, then import fans. The Americans don't like the fact that the Import scene is huge, and attracts much more attention from the teens.

[kennyknoxville]

Originally posted by cobrapower
I want to know what the fascination with civics is? What sense of logic is there in buying a 15,000-20,000 dollar civic, dropping upwards of 30-40k into it, and adding an expensive body kit to turn it into a sportscar? Personally, if i had that kind of money, i could do just as well, without nitrous, in a nice american sportscar. Even a german car! Give me a break, i dont see the logic in all that.

youre numbers are all wrong. unless some kids parents are buying them the car, usually tuners will go for a dirt cheap older civic. by the time the kids put in the amount of money he could have used to buy a mustang svt from the factory, hes got a car thats fully customized on the outside and under the hood, and possibly show worthy. a lot of ricers do the modifications on their own which is rewarding by itself. plus, money is a possible factor. not everyone can finance for a 30,000$ car, but with a used (reliable) import, you get to the next mod when you can. theres also a huge fanbase for imports, which means theres a lot of support for people who have questions. personally, i dont get the ricer fascination either; actually i should say that i dont take part in the scene. but this post is me using my ability to empathize and make subjective observations. if youve got curmudgiony, closed-minded misconceptions you just cant keep to yourself, at least get your facts straight lest you dont come off as some joyless chevrolet fanboy.

[NISMO SR20VETT]

Originally posted by cobrapower
Need i start naming cars for you, i..e. the Cobra, Viper, Corvette,and GT40(which broke the domiation of the ferraris at Le Mans). Not to mention the current GTS series domination by Saleen, and the C-5 corvette. I

Like I said before anyone can take a huge engine and put it in rwd car. But when the car is getting like 60 hp per liter, i don't care about it. As far as i care its only 10 hp more a liter then a mustang. The corvette and the cobra are nice cars. But the mustang cobra had a solid rear axle up to at least this year (i don't know if they fixed it this year). And the old cobra is well, old. The corvette Z06 is a respectable american car because it is not marketed the same as the classless viper or not as expensive as a saleen or gt40. American cars a just all around behind. Behind it technology (still using pushrods?! the hell is wrong with you people?) Cams were inveted how long ago by duesenberg? Even if the viper is faster, i would take a NSX or even an s2000. And youve got 30 iq over me? Then why do you like american cars? If youre such a high genius you should be able to understand 8 liters is way to big and deserves not respect.

[Egg Nog]

Originally posted by NISMO SR20VETT
And youve got 30 iq over me? Then why do you like american cars? If youre such a high genius you should be able to understand 8 liters is way to big and deserves not respect.

Christ! Did anybody read my post? This is exactly the type of blatant ignorance that I was referring to! He's obviously got a higher IQ than you, as he can see through biases and isn't closed-minded about the automotive world. Your arguments are full of holes. Now, go read my last post!

Here's a question: What's a good reason not to like American cars? So what if they use large pushrod V8s? How is 8 litres by any means "too big"? I don't even see how a lack of an overhead camshaft is inferior... if you look at the engines, despite be "technologically behind", they still get similar milage compared to "high tech" Japanese V8s, equal power, and more torque. So what's the big deal? If they accomplish the same thing (or more, for that matter), what difference does it make how they get there?

Without a limit on displacement (a la Formula 1 - 3500cc) then the whole deal about hp/l is completely irrelevent.

So, before you call me closed-minded and an idiot just because I respect large displacement engines, go read my last post.

CobraPower... You're welcome :)

[kennyknoxville]

Originally posted by Egg Nog
You're welcome :)

for what?

[cobrapower]

And Egg Nog just furthers my point, if American cars are so poorly built and out of date, then why do they do so well against the japanese imports? If it takes technology to make an import race on par with an american car, then why waste the money on upgrading, when you can just as easily get what you want on a car that is still stock. If you want to spend the money on those little cars, then go ahead. I was just wondering what sense of logic was behind putting all that money in to get the same results as an american car.

[Egg Nog]

Originally posted by kennyknoxville
for what?

Sorry, I shouldn't have included you when I said that... I was really just backing up CobraPower. I just deleted your name from that sentence...

[cobrapower]

Thank you Egg Nog:)

[Nash]

Originally posted by cobrapower
And Egg Nog just furthers my point, if American cars are so poorly built and out of date, then why do they do so well against the japanese imports? If it takes technology to make an import race on par with an american car, then why waste the money on upgrading, when you can just as easily get what you want on a car that is still stock. If you want to spend the money on those little cars, then go ahead. I was just wondering what sense of logic was behind putting all that money in to get the same results as an american car.

Nobody thinks American cars are built poorly.

You don't understand, do you? People don't modify their cars to compete with American cars. People with civics know they won't beat Mustangs, so they go for looks. You're too narrow-minded to understand concept.

People will modify their cars with their own tastes. Sure, they'll want a little speed, to make the car more fun. Not everyone wants to run 10s.

Half of the time, these kids can't afford faster cars, or can't afford bigger engines that waste more gas.

Oh course, if you're upset that a bunch of retards or kids, said something, you can't judge all the people that mod their cars that way.

[Egg Nog]

Originally posted by Nash
Nobody thinks American cars are built poorly.

You don't understand, do you? People don't modify their cars to compete with American cars. People with civics know they won't beat Mustangs, so they go for looks. You're too narrow-minded to understand concept

First of all, I've heard many people say that American cars are built poorly. Mostly, it's a myth because of their "lack of technology"...

Anyway, I'm not so sure that Cobrapower meant what he said the way that some people took it... It seems to me that the complaint is largely against the people who think that they are superior, which goes both ways. Its ignorant to say that Japanese cars are crappy or that American cars are crappy just because of a personal bias. The big problem is when you hear people (however rare it may be) that do actually claim superiority without justification, or say that large displacement engines don't deserve respect because its "easy horsepower" or something like that...

I don't really mind people who own Rice Rockets until I start hearing lies. If someone wants to put a bodykit on their Integra, so be it. But sheer annoyance is the product of people who claim that their new intake system adds 30 horsepower.

A buddy of mine is leasing a brand new SE-R. Sweet car, no complaints there. He coated it in Nismo stickers without doing anything else to it... fine - Not something I see as great, but he liked it, so whatever. Next is what pissed me off - New cold air intake ("at least 20 more hp"), new exhaust system ("I'm throwing down 35 more rear wheel horsepower").

Then I reminded him that it's not RWD ;)

----
Anyway, Hmmm... I don't know if I just made an argument or agreed with you... whatever, this is fun :) Good times...

[Egg Nog]

It seems like every time I write a large post everyone stops talking :(

[Nash]

Yeah. I agree, not everyone likes dumbasses that talk too much shit.

I hear a lot of stupid people with Imports say that Americans car are crappy, but I usually put them down. Same thing when I hear people who drive American cars put down Imports(which is usually more common).

I try to stay away from the "dumb" crowd of people, of both sides. I'm in between everything, I like every make, regardless of it's country. Even though I heard a lot of bullshit, I don't let it bother me.

[cobrapower]

Yeah i have been out of the loop due to some tornadoes and damage from the storms we had over the weekend. Personally i never said ALL imports are bad, like i have said before, im a big fan of Lotus, and i even own a volvo. I just was wondering what the logic of spending all that money was, thats all.

[prsrcokr]

Originally posted by cobrapower
Yeah i have been out of the loop due to some tornadoes and damage from the storms we had over the weekend. Personally i never said ALL imports are bad, like i have said before, im a big fan of Lotus, and i even own a volvo. I just was wondering what the logic of spending all that money was, thats all.

Some may go overboard in one persons mind but not anothers. What would it take to give a "street legal" domestic car 800+ hp? There a many "rice burners" doing it. No I don't mean Hondas. Fact is by using forced induction you can make gobs of power and still only 1 trip to the gas station a week. A turbo might lack off the line power but to steal a qoute from a friend, "Turbo lag is a curteous head start."

Why not be a fan of all cars? To me "ricers" are those driving hondas or neons or cavaliers with cheap big spoilers and fart can mufflers. I see more domestic ricers then japanese. Euro tails on a Mustang what a contradiction.

[Egg Nog]

Originally posted by prsrcokr
Euro tails on a Mustang what a contradiction.

Well, Japanese cars are just as un-European as any Mustang :) Come to think of it, I don't think I've ever even seen "Euro-tails" on a European car! ;)

Anyway, I completely agree with your definition of a Ricer... Huge exhaust, body kit, springs cut, bookshelf wing, etc. Under the hood of a true ricemobile its all stock, or at the very most a cold air intake and headers.

I see lots of modified imports and domestics where I live, but I've only seen one with more than 800hp on the street (A 427 Chevy Nomad hot rod).

Also, when people get 300hp out of a Civic, they get about the same milage as a car with 300hp stock, maybe a little higher. You can still fill up only once a week, but you'll have to drive less often :)

Just for the record, it tends to be much cheaper to get big power gains out of engines like a Ford 302 (5.0) or a Chevy 350, even without forced induction. The cheap cost is mostly relevent to people in North America; we pay much less for domestic power than someone in Japan or Europe pays for the same thing.

[crisis]

The problem with some Jap car aficionados (or in some cases hot4 magazine reading kids) is their constant claims that a "blown" 4cyl Toy/Nis/Sub can "blow off" V8s. I like a lot of Jap sports cars (front wheel drive excepted) but the Japs do not make large heavy cars like they do in Oz and the US so they can get away with small inducted motors. Try a R20DET or similar Honda motor in a Corvette and see if it will fly. Spend as much on turbos, intercoolers and 3" exhausts as you like. Try it in a large Lexus or Maxima. There are no large Jap cars that have any claim to fame in the performance arena. Traditionally Japs made small cars and thats what they do well. The opposite gos for US and Oz cars.

[prsrcokr]

Are you serious? Look how many supras are used in road races not to mention used as drag cars. If you don't think they are big and heavy, my mk3 supra weighs in around 3800 lbs. That is probably why making around 350 hp doesn't feel like a whole lot. The mk4 is a little more trim at 34-3500 lb. I see your point that the majority of jap cars are small and light but they do make some big heavy cars. In addition the WRX does pretty in WRC. I believe that weighs in around 3500lb. Not as light as you think.

[cobrapower]

The thing you gotta keep in mind with the heavier cars is that they have drivetrain to include, granted, compared to the weightof the car it may not be much, but even a few pounds in the racing world are a lot. The WRX has a 4wd to add in, and those are not particularly light by any means. This post is kinda startin to wander, im done....lol.....

[DSM owner]

Someone who thinks the average modded Civic has $30k to $40k invested in it has been watching too much fast and furious. Stop watching that stuff, it rots your brain.

[crisis]

for every 200lb extra in weight you are adding an extra person. Look at specs with tis in mind. I didnt realise Supras were so heavy. I cant see why the should be other than being packed with all the bells and whistles. They are still a minority. I still maintain that the high output figures and shredding 1/4 mile times that some Jap cars come up with come from highly modified examples.

[motorhead]

i don't see any plymouth hemi cuda being mentioned. come on people what are you al doing. comparing american muscle cars with souped up japanese civics. get a life man. nothing beats the american muscle cars for outright power and their V8s sound glorious especially the hemi cuda and yes next time you see a modded civic tell yourself, open your eyes and look at it properly. it may look good you know depends how you modify it and in SIngapore you see moded civics everywhere and i saw a orange one that day and it was mind you, SCARY! it looked like it was gonna kill you with blistering performance but it was not beautiful, american muscles are different.htye are very very very very beautiful and they perform like nododies buiseness and yes that engine and exaust note(oh shit can't get the V8 burble our of my bloody head and i am not regretting) old VS new eh. very interesting people

[motorhead]

fast and furious i have been telling people - its bullshit and i am spot on agreing with you to the fact that it rotts your bloody brain, in fact its so bad it makes it ooze out your ears nose and mouth

[cobrapower]

First off let me say that The misconception Fast and furious expenses on a car are bullshit is completely off. Perhaps you may not see these things in Singapore, but i guarantee you that they exist. Ive been to several street races with modded cars that have easily dropped 40 grand into the car. On top of all this, in what way does 1/4 mile time matter if a car cant handle for shit? Personally the skill should be in driving the car, not just going in a straight line and shifting.

[motorhead]

i see these things here all the time - cars here are so bloody expensive they modify anf did you know the country is second in terms of the most number of modified cars on the road(japan is first)and at my place i see illegal races all the bloody time

[motormaniac]

hell yeah

[ChevySucks]

All's i can say is imports are junk. If you wanna drive imports and make bad comments about American Muscle, go to Japan where you can critisize all you want with yer lil import car lovers. American Muscle owns the streets, drag strips, and any otha place that you are able to race, and it will always be like dat... ;) :D

[ozexige]

Nice going Chevy, but
The best distinction to make between American muscle and the Japanese is that there will NEVER be a Japanese-made classic car. Vehicles that people want to own 30 years after their release - or more. The Daytona, Superbird, 45 y.o. Corvettes, convertible and fastback Mustangs and in Oz the GTHO and 350 GTS Monaro etc etc. These are the muscle cars that people want and that's why almost every release of a new model includes more horsepower, to try and reclaim everything we lost in the late 70's (the very reason GMH revived the Monaro). Even styling is becoming totally retro and not only in cars. The only ones that are lagging behind in the style department are the Japanese, the Celica for example. I'm well aware that the kiddies in this forum love all their boat-tails and skirts but it does not ad style to any car.

[ChevySucks]

I'm with you all da way on that one, yer right bout all that. Except for the Chevy ruling thing lol :D

[motormaniac]

american muscle carsvs. Japanese cars?

american muscle is cooler

Japan is better

[motorhead]

Originally posted by motormaniac
american muscle carsvs. Japanese cars?

american muscle is cooler

Japan is better
cooler and better - what the hell are you saying

[ozexige]

Originally posted by motormaniac

Japan is better [/B]

better for what?

[Nash]

Originally posted by ChevySucks
All's i can say is imports are junk. If you wanna drive imports and make bad comments about American Muscle, go to Japan where you can critisize all you want with yer lil import car lovers. American Muscle owns the streets, drag strips, and any otha place that you are able to race, and it will always be like dat... ;) :D

You obviously have no brain.

[Nildo]

Chevy,
it's a little foolish to say "all imports are junk". There are many who claim that all muscle cars are junk. Are they right? Of course not. The fact is both can be good, when produced properly.
The problem with american muscle cars is that the should, with the inclusion of modern technology, be better than they are, and also often their build quality is less than reassuring.
In response to Ozexige, can I point out that there are only a few import cars around that even fall into the age category you are discussing, but there are a few jap cars considered "classics", or that will be in the future, for example the Datsun 1600 (commonly restored) and nissan GTR's.
Also the resurection of the Monaro really is nothing short of a crude marketing gimmick. The original Monaro was a fantastic car, with a good base chassis (for it's age) and decent engine hardware. It was a performance king. The new Monaro is a restyled taxi, and that's that! 70's cars were great in their day, and still can provide enjoyment, but engineering has come a long way since then, and new cars should reflect that.

[ozexige]

Originally posted by Nildo
Chevy,
........
In response to Ozexige, can I point out that there are only a few import cars around that even fall into the age category you are discussing, but there are a few jap cars considered "classics", or that will be in the future, for example the Datsun 1600 (commonly restored) and nissan GTR's.
Also the resurrection of the Monaro really is nothing short of a crude marketing gimmick. The original Monaro was a fantastic car, with a good base chassis (for it's age) and decent engine hardware. It was a performance king. The new Monaro is a restyled taxi, and that's that! 70's cars were great in their day, and still can provide enjoyment, but engineering has come a long way since then, and new cars should reflect that.

You can point it out *ildo (sorry I couldn't help myself) but to claim that early Monaros had decent engine hardware (350 chevy) and current ones aren't as good (ah.. let me see .... 350 chevys ... I think) doesn't help your argument. The 350 GTS was OK but the Falcon and Charger were better (on the road) - the reason I didn't buy the HG I tested in the early '70's (yes I know I'm old) - but as I was still a die-hard Holden man I went for a '74 LH Torana SLR5000 and then pulled the 308 motor and had it blueprinted but then I couldn't stop it and got rid of it. - but I'm getting off the point (old people do that)...
Have you driven a new Monaro?
Do you know what car manufacturers are in business for?
Oh yeah....... Japanese classics ......... the Datsun 1600, a very stylish car, I'm sure. Classics are cars that evoke a feeling of awe and admiration for their styling and design. The Datsun 1600 (maybe the Fairlady?) and the GTR do not fit.

PS. Again, I'm sorry for the *ildo thing....:D

[motormaniac]

Originally posted by ozexige
better for what?

performance

[Rob]

Originally posted by motormaniac
performance

That is just bullshit, these cars are totally diffent. If you've read some of the posts from Edd Nog you wouldn't post such a dumb reply

[ozexige]

Originally posted by motormaniac
performance

Sometimes 'maniac (Forrest) I think should just come up there and kick you in the arse - you dope. :p

[guyt_x]

people when are the yanks going to realise now that power and speed are produced using technology and clever ideas(there is where americans fall the most short).

American cars are all engine size and nothing else I mean really do u need a 7 litre car to achieve a 0-60 time of +-4secs ....
NO!

and the only reaon why people are nostalgic about american cars is due to that fact that they where the first "cheap" big engine cars wipee skip.

you have subaru's and skyline's nocking the shit out of american boats on a stock level and little honda's doing it with a couple of modes. and still pulling of the whole handling thing
(for the americans thats when you have to turn the steering wheel left and right for CORNERS!)

AMERICANS ANSWER TO EVERYTHING THING GO BIGGER.

most countries dont have the defense force budget to go sieze oil from poor 3rd world countries to fill up their 7litre cars

[ozexige]

You dweeb 'gut'
We cherish American cars because of the design, style and horsepower. You would seriously put a WRX up against a 'vette in any of these departments. Take a look at early 'vettes and 'stangs and compare them to you early (expletive deleted) japs.
400hp and 400lbs of torque from a 5.7L without bullshit addons is brilliant and you're still a dweeb!.:mad:

[motormaniac]

Originally posted by ozexige
You dweeb 'gut'
We cherish American cars because of the design, style and horsepower. You would seriously put a WRX up against a 'vette in any of these departments. Take a look at early 'vettes and 'stangs and compare them to you early (expletive deleted) japs.
400hp and 400lbs of torque from a 5.7L without bullshit addons is brilliant and you're still a dweeb!.:mad:

hey, wat he says makes sense

u can't be bias abt american cars

although i love em too

[guyt_x]

to get 400 bhp from a 5.7 litre motor is no amazing feat....

discussing this is pointless

and when the car weighs 2 tons 400bhp is nothing

[ozexige]

Originally posted by guyt_x
to get 400 bhp from a 5.7 litre motor is no amazing feat....

discussing this is pointless

and when the car weighs 2 tons 400bhp is nothing

Yes, if a 'vette weighed 2 tons it would 400hp would be nothing, but as it weighs 1.4 tonnes it has a better power to weight ratio than a Lotus Exige.:p
and you're still a dweeb!

[motorhead]

Originally posted by ozexige
Yes, if a 'vette weighed 2 tons it would 400hp would be nothing, but as it weighs 1.4 tonnes it has a better power to weight ratio than a Lotus Exige.:p
and you're still a dweeb! hey its not performance only man - how about design - styling - looks???

[Egg Nog]

Originally posted by ozexige
Nice going Chevy, but
The best distinction to make between American muscle and the Japanese is that there will NEVER be a Japanese-made classic car.

Well, sorry, but there already are classic Japanese cars.

Toyota 2000GT anyone?

[motorhead]

Originally posted by Egg Nog
Well, sorry, but there already are classic Japanese cars.

Toyota 2000GT anyone? nissan 240Z???

[Egg Nog]

Originally posted by motorhead
nissan 240Z???

Exactly.

[ozexige]

Originally posted by Egg Nog
Exactly.

Well guys you and I all have our opinions and that's what we're here for - but -
a '68-'70 240Z or 2000GT can be had VERY CHEAP ($2K) which tends to show their worth as a classic where a '68-'70 vette averages $20K minimum. (similar new $A prices by the way)
Each to his own.:D

[crisis]

Nostalgia is a wonderful thing. A HG/T/K Monaro against a current Monaro is a stupid comparison. Handling, comfort, safety, not to mention all of the goodies on board leave the older Monaros behind. The old Monaros were great in their day but the high performance examples are heavily modified. Original 13" wheels and tyres are no match for 18" jobs of today. As for the jap vs US argument it comes down to if you want a small car or a large one. If overall perfomance and handling is your thing buy a Lotus. From there on in compromise yourself until you get a balance of comfort, size, features etc. I like larger cars so Id go fo a V8 sedan or coupe. If you can live with something smaller then the japs have it nailed.

[ozexige]

Originally posted by crisis
Nostalgia is a wonderful thing. A HG/T/K Monaro against a current Monaro is a stupid comparison. ..........
............... If overall perfomance and handling is your thing buy a Lotus. ...........
............... I like larger cars so Id go fo a V8 sedan or coupe. If you can live with something smaller then the japs have it nailed.

You post is a bit contradictory -
nostalgia isn't about being 100% safe or having the best technology it's about owing a car that was fun to drive then AND now. An HG might take some muscle to wrench it around corners not to mention some guts, but that's why I wouldn't turn down a chance to own one.
Your claim that the Japs have it nailed but you state that the Lotus is the best. Take all the considerations of looks, design and all-round performance - the Japs cant reach the first rung of the 'classic' ladder.. :)

[Egg Nog]

Originally posted by ozexige
Well guys you and I all have our opinions and that's what we're here for - but -
a '68-'70 240Z or 2000GT can be had VERY CHEAP ($2K) which tends to show their worth as a classic where a '68-'70 vette averages $20K minimum. (similar new $A prices by the way)
Each to his own.:D

While your point is quite relevent regarding the 240z, you actually very wrong about the one I mentioned, the 2000GT. If you saw a $2000 2000GT, BUY IT NOW!

The 2000GT's production number was 300, and they're now often fetchin more than $100,000 through auctions and personal sales.

I think you must have been thinking of a different car... :)

http://www.yamaha-motor.co.jp/eng/cp/images/0005/main_07.jpg
http://www.yamaha-motor.co.jp/eng/cp/images/0005/image_01.jpghttp://www.yamaha-motor.co.jp/eng/cp/images/0005/image_02.jpg

[motormaniac]

Originally posted by motorhead
hey its not performance only man - how about design - styling - looks???

we are talking abt the engine size

[crisis]

Sorry Ozexige, my point is that while a Lotus is among the best purpose built sports cars for racing or pure sports driving for one person, it is heavily compromised in other areas. Jap cars provide good value performance for their size but for some people are compromised by thier smaller size. Larger Sports cars are compromised by their size in other ways. That you enjoy the thrill of struggling with a 70s spec muscle car over a modern Monaro etc is borne out by your username ( preference for pure sports cars ). The reality is they are not Lotuses or Porshces that have good chassis to complement their drivability. Having owned a HQ Monaro and driven HG V8s I can tell you these are not sports cars in the pure sense. The reason you need to struggle with them is because unmodified, they handle like shit. As far as classic jap cars you may have to accept that cars like the Skyline R34 and Honda NSX may well be regarded as such. Put along side such "classics" as certain MGs and other such British cars for example, they are more than worhty of that title.

[guyt_x]

V8 tanks never handle well

all american cars have is straut line speed.

and most are automatic so a brick to hold down the acccelerater is all you need.

people must remeber that americans live in there own little world, where they make up there own sports so they can be worldchampions at something and make cars that olny americans would like. it is pointless even comparing american cars to any others because its never really a contest.

if you go engine size agaist engine size american cars will always come last even in strait line speed never mind handling.

but like i said its no point arguing cos they live in there own world solets just leave to think that they really are good at something.

[crisis]

Americans are not the only ones who make large V8 cars

[guyt_x]

but the non american cars always out perform the american tanks
and always handle better.

[Kudosdude]

I don't think this argument will ever be won;

Anyone want a new car? 2.2L Ecotec - (It's not a V8 and it's American so It's gotta be slow right . . .)


Here (http://www.lingenfelter.com/ebay/modcar.htm)

[guyt_x]

proburaly cant handle worth shit

[Nash]

You're all stupid.

You think that American cars are slow and can't handle. You're all blind.

Didn't the C5-R place 2nd and 3rd in Le Mans last week?

The Z06 out performs a 911 Turbo for half the cost.

The Viper out performs the Ferrari 360 for much less price.

The SRT-4 out performs any Japanese/European sport compact car.

The Saleen S7 is finally starting to receive some attention.

The Lincoln LS V8 is right up there with the 5 series and E class.

You're all obviously brain washed.

[motorhead]

as for LM/GT the vette c5r are doing very well but the 996 GT3 RS is doing better as for GT 500 and GT300 - as for the viper thrashing the 360 - have you ever thought about the vipers interior and compared it to the 360 - i think and i will say i am positive the 360s interior is miles ahead of the viper in terms of build quality and the new viper is also damn ****in hot because of the side massive pipes - its not just performance there are other things in a car also.the overall development and engineering of the ferrari is way better also and one uses a 8.3 litre engine and the other a measly 3.6 litre engine - obviously the ferrari is lighter but the viper has 4700CC more than the 360 - thast does not really help much i suppose - you can;t really compare a viper to a 360 - bing in the 575 and we'll talk about real rivalry

[Nildo]

Nash,
I guess we are just all idiots because we disagree with you. But I want to know, when did a 'Vette Z06 compete in a number of measured 'performance' criteria against a 911 turbo and come out on top? In straight line speed they are definitely closely matched (although I have yet to see a document substantiating their claimed 4.0 0-62 mph, Porsche has run a 4.1 in Evo magazine), but the porsche is miles ahead in chassis development and very importantly at high speed, safety.

btw: Isn't this site about asian cars?

[Nash]

You can't argue the facts, and the facts are that American cars just good as European and Japanese cars. And I'm not biased, I like all cars.

Sure you can compare the SRT10's interior to the Ferrari, while we're comparing interior, let's compare prices, shall we?

Yes, these are the Asian forums, but you guys aren't talking about Asian cars. You're just bashing American cars.

[motormaniac]

Originally posted by Kudosdude
I don't think this argument will ever be won;

Anyone want a new car? 2.2L Ecotec - (It's not a V8 and it's American so It's gotta be slow right . . .)


Here (http://www.lingenfelter.com/ebay/modcar.htm)

that is one SLOW car

[guyt_x]

on engine size alone it proves how crap the amaerican cars are.

if you made an 8 litre ferrari it would go back in time it would be so fast

and the only way americans would match that is by making a 11 litre car

shame on you americans

[motorhead]

the americans love to take it easy - and what could you expect from a country with $5 per GALLON eh

[motorhead]

i mean 1$ per GALLON

[Nildo]

Nash does have a point about some american cars. I'm not about to agree that the corvette Z06 is any good, but the Ford GT (40) was a really good car, crushing Ferrari in front of the whole world. The new model also has what it takes to be fantastic.
The big problem with US cars isn't that they are all crap, but that they should be better. If the engineers in the US spent a few dollars and used a few brain cells then they too could enjoy the benefits of technological advancements that have been made in the last 30 years. But short term it is cheaper to simply use bigger engines, so that is their answer.
Ford has started to move in the high tech direction, although the BOSS v8 motor shows that they are tring to gain the best of both worlds (long stroke for lots of torque, multi cams/valves for better high rpm power) and can't get it quite right yet. One day....
Large engines in cars to make them go fast is hardly just an american practice anyway. Consider the Pagani Zonda. 7.3 litres, anyone?
Nash, the point I was making is that I want to talk about asian cars. Not having a go at you, just the bickering in general.

[motorhead]

ford is very much influenced by a lot of EURO companies like jaguar and volvo(which are under them) and they all make great engines(especially volvo) thats why i think they have the advantage at status quo

[levin_666]

did anyone see that civic commercial with all the suped up civics coming in and surrounding the crappy looking civic?

[MKielbasa]

Some of you make such poor arguments it isn't even worth looking at.

All I am going to say is this: Many of you are being so narrow minded you are invalidating any arguments you may, or may not, have.

guyt: Learn how to spell at least somewhat coherently. I am in no way an English major, but I certainly can type a proper sentence.

Some of you need to learn how to use punctuation. Periods are our friend. They indicate the end of a sentence.

Your arguments will seem much more valid if you learn to type properly.

Now. It is perfectly possible to buy a 1990 Civic hatch, drop a 1.8L vtech motor in it and turbo charge the piss out of it and make it fast. You can spend money on paint, body kits, rims, suspension and in the end you have a fast straight line car.

It is also entirely possible to buy a 1990 Camaro with a 305. Keep the motor in it, supercharge it, swap the suspension. Now you have an extremely fast Camaro that will blow the doors off that civic in every possible way.

Many of you forget that STYLE is all in the eye of the beholder. Therefore your opinions on which cars look better are IRELLIVENT. End of story.

Many of you are also overlooking some key factors which conveniently make v8 powered vehicles seem like dinosaurs.

Here are some facts:

If it isn't impressive to make 350 horse power out of a 5.7L, then it is as equally unimpressive to make 300 horse power out of a 2.0L with 19.6 pounds of boost.

Ferrari and Lambo are not exactly known for their reliability. Therefore when Viper uses an 8.3L to make 500HP and 500ft/lbs of torque, there might be a reason.

American car enthusiasts tend to like to work on their own vehicles in their own garage. A viper v10 is simple enough that anyone with half a sense of mechanics could work on it. Try that with a Ferrari.

HP/L is IRRELEVANT. Power to weight ratio of the car, and power to weight ratio of the ENGINE are what matters.

120HP/L means nothing unless the power is usable. Ever driven an S2000? Didn't think so, so shut up.

[MoMurda]

Originally posted by cobrapower
And Egg Nog just furthers my point, if American cars are so poorly built and out of date, then why do they do so well against the japanese imports? If it takes technology to make an import race on par with an american car, then why waste the money on upgrading, when you can just as easily get what you want on a car that is still stock. If you want to spend the money on those little cars, then go ahead. I was just wondering what sense of logic was behind putting all that money in to get the same results as an american car.

the performance of a product or the sales of it , in no way corelate(sp?) to the products quality or value.
Still don't get it? aight, the greatest mistake Americans did was hewlp Ford sell all those crappy 4.6L Mustang gts and cobras. OMG, I HATE those Mustangs!! It was like people had a choice of a Firebird Formula,Ram-Air, or Firehawk, ALL ARE CONSIDERABLY BETTER, FASTER THAN ANYHING FORD PRODUCED IN THE 90'S.
I guess the majority of folks like to waste money. (cmon, 4.6L, same motor in my old 94 Grand Marquis sans different cam, exhaust, etc.) Whiney ass americans who would trade performace for the same (almost) price just to have a higher seat? Less power, bland looks, NO SIX SPEED, not even a 5.3 L or 5.7, **** (what, u want a bib with your child seat?) See, the same thing goes for a good protion of import drivers. No more GOOD v-8's around, cmon the new cobra still icks assholes for lunch and dinner, a RX-8 can keep up with it on the track for cryin out loud. So , to a few it seems more logivcal to buy a fuel effiecnt car, and actually make it fast as a gay ass stang(some people actually pay for their own damn gas,lil mommy and daddie pricks still mouching of da fam need not apply)
There is this joke about hondas....but here it is with ford,
Ehm, Mustangs are like tampons,,EVERY PUSSY HAS ONE.

[MoMurda]

Originally posted by cobrapower
And Egg Nog just furthers my point, if American cars are so poorly built and out of date, then why do they do so well against the japanese imports? If it takes technology to make an import race on par with an american car, then why waste the money on upgrading, when you can just as easily get what you want on a car that is still stock. If you want to spend the money on those little cars, then go ahead. I was just wondering what sense of logic was behind putting all that money in to get the same results as an american car.

the performance of a product or the sales of it , in no way corelate(sp?) to the products quality or value.
Still don't get it? aight, the greatest mistake Americans did was hewlp Ford sell all those crappy 4.6L Mustang gts and cobras. OMG, I HATE those Mustangs!! It was like people had a choice of a Firebird Formula,Ram-Air, or Firehawk, ALL ARE CONSIDERABLY BETTER, FASTER THAN ANYHING FORD PRODUCED IN THE 90'S.
I guess the majority of folks like to waste money. (cmon, 4.6L, same motor in my old 94 Grand Marquis sans different cam, exhaust, etc.) Whiney ass americans who would trade performace for the same (almost) price just to have a higher seat? Less power, bland looks, NO SIX SPEED, not even a 5.3 L or 5.7, **** (what, u want a bib with your child seat?) See, the same thing goes for a good protion of import drivers. No more GOOD v-8's around, cmon the new cobra still icks assholes for lunch and dinner, a RX-8 can keep up with it on the track for cryin out loud. So , to a few it seems more logivcal to buy a fuel effiecnt car, and actually make it fast as a gay ass stang(some people actually pay for their own damn gas,lil mommy and daddie pricks still mouching of da fam need not apply)
There is this joke about hondas....but here it is with ford,
Ehm, Mustangs are like tampons,,EVERY PUSSY HAS ONE.

[MKielbasa]

Originally posted by MoMurda
*.*
Did you even read my post? Spell chick, grammar check and proper punctuation will help your post come across much more persuasively. Also, removing statements like "OMG I HATE those Mustangs" will make your post sound less like somebody’s whiney loud mouthed, and useless, opinion. Instead the mind will interpret it as fact, and thus it will actually make an impact on the reader.

[ozexige]

Originally posted by MKielbasa
Some of you make such poor arguments it isn't even worth looking at.

........... yada yada yada .... blah blah blah ........... etc ........

Many of you forget that STYLE is all in the eye of the beholder. Therefore your opinions on which cars look better are IRELLIVENT (... duh? .....) . End of story.

........ more blah blah blah ............ etc

Ferrari and Lambo are not exactly known for their reliability. Therefore when Viper uses an 8.3L to make 500HP and 500ft/lbs of torque, there might be a reason.

American car enthusiasts tend to like to work on their own vehicles in their own garage. A viper v10 is simple enough that anyone with half a sense of mechanics could work on it. Try that with a Ferrari.

HP/L is IRRELEVANT. Power to weight ratio of the car, and power to weight ratio of the ENGINE are what matters.

120HP/L means nothing unless the power is usable. Ever driven an S2000? Didn't think so, so shut up.


My little small minded IRRELEVANT friend - don't presume to enter our discussions and criticise anyone until you can claim to have driven more types of cars here than anyone else. Not only can you not spell, your statements are only your opinion and NOT fact.
HP/L is important if the engine is NA, and yes KW/Kg is also important.
Ferraris and Lambos were hand built and only in recent years has the quality improved. Maintenance of the Ferrari, at least the '81 308GTSi that I owned, WAS easy - it had to be - I replaced the clutch three times in as many years.
Style - we all like certain cars more than others but 90% of classic cars are appreciated by ALL and therefore not IRRELEVANT (note spelling).

So go away NOW and we might talk to you again when you apologise for being as big a moron as our Sth Afrikaan friend 'gut'.
I shall name you 'DWEEB too'.

[MKielbasa]

Originally posted by ozexige
My little small minded IRRELEVANT friend - don't presume to enter our discussions and criticise anyone until you can claim to have driven more types of cars here than anyone else. Not only can you not spell, your statements are only your opinion and NOT fact.
HP/L is important if the engine is NA, and yes KW/Kg is also important.
Ferraris and Lambos were hand built and only in recent years has the quality improved. Maintenance of the Ferrari, at least the '81 308GTSi that I owned, WAS easy - it had to be - I replaced the clutch three times in as many years.
Style - we all like certain cars more than others but 90% of classic cars are appreciated by ALL and therefore not IRRELEVANT (note spelling).

So go away NOW and we might talk to you again when you apologise for being as big a moron as our Sth Afrikaan friend 'gut'.
I shall name you 'DWEEB too'.

Just for fun I just run my original post through a spell check and it didn't find any spelling errors. *shrug* Many, MANY people on message boards place their opinion as fact. That is almost the main purpose of discussion. To place out an opinion in order to bounce it off of others.
Personally, I don't need to place a list of vehicles I have had the pleasure in driving just to make my opinions valid. Neither does anybody else.
I will say this though; I have driven enough examples of automotive engineering to be able to hold to my statement that HP/L is a useless measure of an engines worth.
At the end of the day when all is said and done, a lower HP/L, higher torque engine will have given you a more satisfying drive.

Also: Can you deni that if I removed all punctuation, added horrid spelling and then reposted your thoughts, they would look less valid?
A simple period can go a long way.

[Nicademus]

Originally posted by levin_666
did anyone see that civic commercial with all the suped up civics coming in and surrounding the crappy looking civic? I couldn't tell what you were talking about

ALL Civics look crappy.

[guyt_x]

and I think

all Nicademus's look crappy

[Nicademus]

well its confirmed, maturity is not a prerequisite for posting on this board

[Nildo]

Amazing! Somebody here actually agrees that HP/l can be important! But, as mkiel states, high torque at the expense of high power often provides a better drive. The solution....buy a car with both! There are lots of good cars in between.

Oz, you live in Australia, what do you think of the new XR6 turbo? A good medium? There are faster gadgets, but I thought it was a pretty good steer. Actually I probably should have mentioned that on the Aussie car page. Ah well.

[ozexige]

Originally posted by Nildo
Amazing! Somebody here actually agrees that HP/l can be important! But,
...........

Oz, you live in Australia,
.............
have mentioned that on the Aussie car page. Ah well.


Where are you guys? - somebody - everybody - enter your LOCATION, please.:)

Anybody here notice that this forum takes up way to much of our time?:D

Or is it that we all have nothing better to do - especially the ones with more than 100 posts or the weirdo's with more than 500 posts. :)

[ozexige]

Originally posted by MKielbasa
Just for fun I just run my original post through a spell check ...........

A simple period can go a long way.

Funny, I didn't run your post through a spell-checker.
I do however, appreciate your more conciliatory tone - you have regained your status - in my opinion.

BTW - punctuation and spelling is NOT important (unless you criticise it with your own grammatical errors 'but I certainly can type a proper sentence.')- this is a forum - we are talkin' to each other. Some of us don't take a breath between sentences. 'Periods are our friend. They indicate the end of a sentence.' you gotta be kiddin', where'd you pinch that from - maybe some other forum? ;)

Why not tell us ALL the cars you've driven - maybe in a new thread? - we'll all have a good 'chin wag'.:D

[fastbird94]

I agree. I like v-8s alot too, and would prefer them WAY over a 4-cyclinder, but when your a teenager that is scarce for money and you need something reliable and good on gas, that has some good handling and speed charectiristics, then you decide on a small reliable honda. I personally am against people that add body kits and spruce up there import with louds of accessories and body kits and a 5-zigen exhaust to make it sound loud and annoying.

I dont mind driving a honda, i personally am interested in a '91 Prelude 2.0S. They are a nice attractive car, and com with a 5-speed manual. They are peppy little things too. But, i am not going to put shit body kits on it or a annoying exhaust. I just like the car and i will drive it hard and fast without putting any mods on. Except of course a couple little "under-the-hood" mods for a little extra performance boost. If i did this would i be considered a rice burner??

[ozexige]

Originally posted by fastbird94
I agree. I like v-8s alot too, and would prefer them WAY over a 4-cyclinder, but when your a teenager that is scarce for money and you need something reliable and good on gas, that has some good handling and speed charectiristics, then you decide on a small reliable honda. I personally am against people that add body kits and spruce up there import with louds of accessories and body kits and a 5-zigen exhaust to make it sound loud and annoying.

I dont mind driving a honda, i personally am interested in a '91 Prelude 2.0S. They are a nice attractive car, and com with a 5-speed manual. They are peppy little things too. But, i am not going to put shit body kits on it or a annoying exhaust. I just like the car and i will drive it hard and fast without putting any mods on. Except of course a couple little "under-the-hood" mods for a little extra performance boost. If i did this would i be considered a rice burner??

Great post 'fast bird' -

You're not a 'rice burner' because you don't defend Japanese cars against ALL odds.

I will even confess to owning a 4WD
Su... Su.. Su..b .. ru (I said it?) -
I couldn't afford a real 4WD in those days.
:D

[guyt_x]

honda's have about the highest resale value

and "doing them up" to the max with all that graphics like in fast and the furious stuff is dumb.

but most honda's do really look nice with a minimal body kit and nice 17' mags

honda's have a sporty look to them already so one or two mods doesnt detract from the image of the car.

but over the top

"look at me I cant afford a reall sports car so I've made my honda look like a cartoon car"

is just dumb


less is more

[jadotch]

HP per liter is an idication of how well an engine is engineered, but to say that it is the end all be all of engineering is ignorant. How about how light an engine is, how about how much torque per liter an engine makes, how about the torque curve, how about the amount of moving parts? There is more than 1 way to judge an engine.

[guyt_x]

why build big engine to do what a small engine can ?

[jadotch]

Torque

[fastbird94]

excactly, 4-cylinders dont have much torque i'm afraid to say. Trust me my mom has a 2.0L Contour and that thing HAS NO TORQUE at all.

[FordMonster]

Originally posted by guyt_x
why build big engine to do what a small engine can ?

Why spend an extra 10k getting the smaller engine to make the power when out of the box the big engine does????

[guyt_x]

do the cars with the huge engine costless than the small cars

every else the bigger the engine the bigger the price tag

america subsidise there huge hunks of shit so they will sell

[ozexige]

Originally posted by guyt_x
do the cars with the huge engine costless than the small cars

every else the bigger the engine the bigger the price tag

america subsidise there huge hunks of shit so they will sell


Dweeb - you're just an expert in everythink - aren't you?

Big engines don't cost more 'monkey-boy' - they cost less and have more torque.

They cost less for very simple reasons (maybe even your monkey brain can understand). They are mass produced by the largest industrial nation on the planet and they don't need OHV's & VVT's etc - can you [B]u-n-d-e-r-s-t-a-n-d t-h-a-t ?[B] Dweeb.

[fastbird94]

LMAO!

[IBrake4Rainbows]

Classic!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[guyt_x]

hmmmm

if american cars are sooo great and soo fast why does no other country import them ?

and for all you fukwits who are going to say ford...
Im not talking about cars designed by europoeans for europeans.

please tell me why no other country bothers with these amazing gass guzzling terrible handling very heavy huge capacity cars, that are soo cheap ??????

do u people understand that you are the laughing stock of the rest of the world?

[jadotch]

Originally posted by guyt_x
hmmmm

if american cars are sooo great and soo fast why does no other country import them ?

and for all you fukwits who are going to say ford...
Im not talking about cars designed by europoeans for europeans.

please tell me why no other country bothers with these amazing gass guzzling terrible handling very heavy huge capacity cars, that are soo cheap ??????

do u people understand that you are the laughing stock of the rest of the world?

Lets see Europe has Neons, PT Cruisers Voyagers, and Grand Voyagers. Austrilia Has PT Cruisers, Voyagers and Vipers. Japan has PT Cruisers, Voyagers and the 300M.

This was just Chrysler.

PS

Alot of other countrys Tax displacement, as in Japan, so they do not sell due to the huge price and the taxes put on the displacement.

Go here, to Ford Japan and buy yourself a 'Stang

http://www.ford.co.jp/mustang/index.htm

[Egg Nog]

Originally posted by fastbird94
I just like the car and i will drive it hard and fast without putting any mods on. Except of course a couple little "under-the-hood" mods for a little extra performance boost. If i did this would i be considered a rice burner??

No, not at all! You're actually giving the car a little more pep, rather than take the money you would've spent on the engine and buying a useless bodykit/rims/spoiler.

[Nicademus]

put on some clean rims, get your little boost and be done. Like Egg nog said, that's not rice, but when you get into all that other crap like body kits, carbon fiber hoods, etc...then its rice

[crisis]

Originally posted by Nicademus
put on some clean rims, get your little boost and be done. Like Egg nog said, that's not rice, but when you get into all that other crap like body kits, carbon fiber hoods, etc...then its rice
Hey fastbird. Put whatever you want on it and if anyone else doesnt like it let them walk.

[guyt_x]

the rest can be wielded shut.

[Dub'd]

Originally posted by guyt_x
hmmmm

if american cars are sooo great and soo fast why does no other country import them ?

and for all you fukwits who are going to say ford...
Im not talking about cars designed by europoeans for europeans.

please tell me why no other country bothers with these amazing gass guzzling terrible handling very heavy huge capacity cars, that are soo cheap ??????

do u people understand that you are the laughing stock of the rest of the world?


Guy_x - America can sell these huge cars and engines because they have the $$$ and a massive market to do it in. It also boils down the most basic marketing principle that is called DEMAND. The majority of American's demand these products from their OEM's - although recent research findings show that a large portion of the American market are turning to Japanese brands - and this shows that the auto marketing environment is indeed changing. But the majority of Americans are extremely patriotic and are by choice, ignorant to the outside world and couldn't give a rat's ass about your humble opinion. We can not blame them for being this way - it's their way of life.

But also know that it is big American companies such as GM, Chrysler and Ford (the big three) already own just about half of the worlds auto industry. General Motors alone owns the following automotive brands - Buick, Cadillac, Chevrolet, GMC, Holden, HUMMER, Oldsmobile, Opel, Pontiac, Saab, Saturn and Vauxhall and has considerable amount of interest in Daewoo, Isuzu, Subaru and Suzuki.

Guy_X, the only reason why you perceive American cars to be worthless is because you have had less experience with them in your home country - but your father and grandfather probably drove one of those big yanktank's that you hate so much. Remember that firstly, South Africa is situated on the southern most tip of the African continent which is pretty much far away from the big first world automotive markets - and SA just so happens to be an extremely small market at that, compared to that of Europe, Asia and North America etc. For example, Volkswagen of South Africa's sales accounts for 0.5% of total Volkswagens sold world-wide - and last year Volkswagen sold close onto 6-million cars globally.

Also Guy_X, you also have to look at our South African history to understand why you make such ignorant comments all the time. Remember that in during the apartheid hay-day most of the big American, British, French and Italian OEM's (original equipment manufacture's) were under enormous pressure from anti-apartheid groups on their own soil. In America for instance, students were rallying for the abolishment of the South African apartheid government. Because of this political activity, OEM's such as GM, Ford, Chrysler, Renault, Peugeot & Citroen, Layland (Rover & Mini) and Fiat had no choice but to pull out of the country in the early eighties and only returned when South Africa became a free country in 1994. The German and Japanese OEM's stayed put throughout this period and hence the reason why Toyota, Volkswagen, Mercedes and BMW enjoy such a large chunk of the South African passenger car segment. When companies such as Renault, Citroen & Peugeot and Fiat returned to the country after 1994 they had a hard job of re-establishing themselves because an entire generation of car buyers knew very little about them. The once brand loyal consumers who remembered them were still disgruntled about the fact that when these mentioned OEM's left the country, the re-sale value of those cars dropped dramatically, genuine parts became hard to find and there was no place to take the cars to be serviced and repaired - so they had no choice but to buy German or Japanese.

A few of the exiting OEM's somehow managed to find loopholes to stay in the county for example, The Delta Motor Corporation bought the GM plant and distribution network and managed to keep the Opel and Isuzu brands alive in SA - but that is mostly because Opel is a German brand and Isuzu is a Japanese brand name that are owned by GM . None of GM's American brands were available during the most of the ‘80's and 90's.

Ford's on the other hand were being built and sold through SAMMCOR - but the only Fords that were available to us were sourced through Mazda (a Ford Motor Corporation global subsidiary) and hence the reason why cars such as the Mazda 323 and Ford Laser were exactly the same products with different badging. SA did not have a "true blue" Ford until the Focus was launched a few years back. Ford at one time in the seventies and early eighties had the lion's share of the South African car market - although most of the cars such as Cortina and Escort were sourced via England and Australia at the time and not America but mainly due to economic reasons.

Guy_X, your beloved Honda brand was introduced in SA by Mercedes Benz in the early eighties because at that time Toyota and Volkswagen were selling entry-level cars by the thousands - and Merc did not have a contender to compete in the lower segments. The answer was to strike a deal with Honda Japan to help build and sell the cars in this country but that all came to a sudden halt when Daimler merged with Chrysler and Honda was given the boot because some of Honda's products are in direct competition with that of Chrysler. People in South Africa for a long time ‘perceived' Honda to be a premium product because it was closely associated with the Mercedes Benz brand name. This is the way the Honda brand was marketed and the association between the two brands were always perceptive to the consumer. But look at it now. Honda had the painful task of setting up their own dealership network (only 17 dealerships country wide to date) and today Honda only manages to sell +- 300 cars/month (compared to the passenger car market leader, Volkswagen who borders on 4500 cars per month - told you guys it was small market). The reason for the low volumes is because the South African consumer do not know nor do they trust the new Honda dealership network. Before they would take their Hondas to a Mercedes dealership to be serviced and repaired - but not anymore. Ever wonder why we in SA do not see those sweet AMG tuned Honda Ballades anymore? - now you know why!

BTW - Guy_X, your thoughtless comments on this forum are rude, uncalled for and I'm afraid to say, extremely embarrassing. These are discussion forums that have been set up for like-minded individuals from around the world to talk about and civilly debate a commonly shared passion. You should take it easy with the insults and know-it-all comments, my friend. You might just learn something new if you do. You should come chat on the cartoday.com forum sometime, ek se. Ons sal vir jou gou in die skool sit ou pel!

Cheers all,
Dub'd

www.veedubz.co.za

Xtreme Veedubz - This is our world! You only live here.

[Nildo]

Now that is what I call a reply! This page needs more well researched and well thought out responses, and less Jap equals crap/US cars suck rhetoric. Well done, Dub'd.

Just wondering, what is the meaning of the Africaans (if it is africaans...it sounds like it to me) at the bottom of your message? Or is it a private meaning for Guy?

[jadotch]

Good reply Dub'd (even though I do think I know alittle about the outside world, I have lived in Asia for a year and a half, and visited Australia)

Yes, I agree, less of the us vrs them BS. I do prefer US cars, basically because of California smog laws, the toughest in the world, if I buy a pre 74 car, I do not need it smogged. The US is the only cars of that era with the preformance I want for the price I want. But I am considering shipping an Australian Hemi 265 to the US, and install it in an A-body Barracuda. Anyways thats off the subject.

[Egg Nog]

Originally posted by Dub'd
(I don't want to take up room quoting the whole thing)

Wow, that was a great post, one of the best I've seen on these boards. Definately worth the time it took to read it; however, something about the way that Guy_X moronically presents himself makes me doubt that he read it. Poor guy, can't even save himself...

[Nildo]

Too bad for guy, but good for us! I reckon that is the best post I have seen yet.

[guyt_x]

but all that boring history dosnt take away from the fact that the only reason americans buy american cars is cos they are cheap and most american are simple and believe what ever the media tells them.

(staan op jou kop en kak in jou poes)

[Dub'd]

nope! wrong again gai-x. The only reason that they are cheap is because they sell so many cars...(economies of scale). Try building one of those cars in SA and they won't be that cheap anymore.

What's your beef with the USA? You spend your money watching their big hollywood productions, you spend your money eating their fast-foods, you spend money on their clothing brands etc.... truth is America has gotten so far into YOUR mind that you can not live without them... take a look around you and count how many influences America has in YOUR life at this stage, including that thing called the internet that you are staring into right now - now take all that away and see how you're doing - go home tonight and watch local and British TV programs rather than the American ones with American People acting in them that was written by Americans, directed by Americans and shot in a studio in..... wait for it.....in America!! Life's just not the same without them, innit?

btw, to translate into English what Gai_X told me in that last bit: "stand on your head and shit in your cunt" ???? you're even a bigger idiot than I originally thought you were, broer. This is one of the reasons why they try to keep the internet out of reach from the stoopid folk like yourself.

Guy_X, this forum is all yours my man - I'm outta here and I doubt that I'll be coming back - so enjoy your corner on the net and don't feel too bad when the other posters on this forum do something and have you banned, ayiete.:rolleyes:

[guyt_x]

dork'ed

[jadotch]

Originally posted by guyt_x
the only reason americans buy american cars is cos they are cheap and most american are simple and believe what ever the media tells them.


You are partly correct, I do like American cars because of there price for the performance. It allows the common person to have a pratical, high performing car, not only for the rich, but for your average joe as well. Hell if I streched my cash I could most likely afford a Corvette, or a 2003 Cobra Mustang. I cannot say that for any other cars in their class.

[ozexige]

Hey Dweeb your family's lookin' fer yu...

[HiHi_02]

Whats up with people talking trash about Asian Cars? Here in the US, people havent seen the real Asian Cars in action. Like the Skyline R-34 GTR, NSX-R, SZ Supra, Evo 7, Silvia, RX-7. Try talking trash about these cars. If tuned right these cars can blow all the other competion away!

" Racing in a straight line isnt a challenge and it doesnt take any skill to do so " <--- Thats so lame we need more tracks in the US<-- im not talking about freakin GT3 okay? Serously their is no skill in driving in a damn straight line, whoever has the faster car wins it simple as that "

" Ive seen a dumb trend here in the US, its the use of dumb and nonfunctional body parts "

" American Cars<-- They dont corner well, breaks easily, heavy, low rpms, no all wheel drive, mileage sucks, to loud, bumpy ride "

[HiHi_02]

The Fast and Furoius is a no good movie which gives a bad name to the word import racing+their wernt any asain people in that damn film besides that one asiain guy! NOS IS SHIT!! Ive noticed something....

When mention ASIANS they think RICERS, when you mention Black people they think HUGE CADILLIC TRUCKS WITH GIANT CHROME WHEELS, when they mention MEXICAN people they think Lowrider TRUCKS/OLD CARS WITH HYDRALICS, when the mention AMERICAN People we think MUSTANGS/VETTES <-- WHAT THE HELL!?!?!? Its True!

[crisis]

HiHi, you quote about Asian cars "If tuned right these cars can blow all the other competion away! ". Would that not be the case for everthing. Most of the Asian cars that are the heros of young people are "tuned".

[Nildo]

Errr, NOS is sh....what? Have you ever used it on a car? What about on a turbo instead of a water spray to cool charge air?

[ozexige]

Originally posted by HiHi_02
The Fast and Furoius is a no good movie which gives a bad name to the word import racing+their wernt any asain people in that damn film besides that one asiain guy! NOS IS SHIT!! shit? - I thought it was a gas, shit!

Ive noticed something....

When mention ASIANS they think RICERS, when you mention Black people they think HUGE CADILLIC TRUCKS WITH GIANT CHROME WHEELS, when they mention MEXICAN people they think Lowrider TRUCKS/OLD CARS WITH HYDRALICS, when the mention AMERICAN People we think MUSTANGS/VETTES <-- WHAT THE HELL!?!?!? Its True! .... and your point is?...
:confused:

HiHo, HiHo its off to the movies we go
Shit - I can't believe I just sang that! -
Shit - I cant believe I typed THAT!
- shit again

[Dr freedom]

Originally posted by ChevySucks
All's i can say is imports are junk. If you wanna drive imports and make bad comments about American Muscle, go to Japan where you can critisize all you want with yer lil import car lovers. American Muscle owns the streets, drag strips, and any otha place that you are able to race, and it will always be like dat... ;) :D If cars were as cheap here as they are there, then we would.
If we had as many people to buy the amount of cars here as you do there, we would!

[ozexige]

Originally posted by Dr freedom
If cars were as cheap here as they are there, then we would.
If we had as many people to buy the amount of cars here as you do there, we would!
What the? - we would - what!
:confused:

[Dr freedom]

Originally posted by ozexige
What the? - we would - what!
:confused: We would oWn the streets, drag strips etc etc..
read up son!!

[kko]

but i would like to say that buying a cheap ass import and souping it up so it can compete w/ o say a vette, is much more fun than buying the stock vette and being broke :p

[Falcon500]

Yeah well most ricers are stupid thety do things like take out the rear seat for weight saving and then add 200lbs of entertainment equipment too them. Ill refer you to a small part of my collection of websites. www.acsu.buffalo.edu/%7Eattse/honduh.htm a light hearted look using models instead of real people (funny thing is the inteligence doesnt vaerie between the real kind of people it represents and the plastic figarines) http://www.goingfaster.com/spo/you_might_be_a_ricer_if.html another site which points out streotypesthey do to their cars. (usually true too)
www.riceornot.ricecop.com the rice cops web site where you can rate cars on the rice scale and so forth.
http://www.goingfaster.com/spo/cheaprice.htm a closer look at a budget rice car which is no doubt the most common and funnyest too look at.

[Nildo]

American muscle does not rule the street etc. Jap cars do not, and will not rule either! Both use different approaches to the same problem ie. getting from one end of a road to the other in the minimum amount of time. American cars have been more developed, as their engine technology is old and people have been working on the same motors for about 4 decades. Jap stuff is newer and less well developed. In addition asian (and euro cars too, if they compete) have been disadvantaged at certain events as their technology has been outlawed. Examples of this are the Skyline GTR tilt in the australian racing scene, and the fact that (not sure if this rule is still in place...it was a couple of years back) EFI was not an allowable injection method according to ANDRA drag race rules.

[Falcon500]

I have no objection to saying japense "performance" cars are fast but when you look at those web sites youll see the diffrence between rice and imports. (usually gay sticker fart cans and so on and so forth).

[NAZCA C2]

Don't you understand the Civic is the most powerful and fastest car on earth! With a huge coffee can, a spoiler the size of a 747's tail and some chinese letters on the windshield (chinese letters on your car add 1000hp) you will be doing the quarter is 2 seconds flat!

[NAZCA C2]

I don't know why people think that civics are fast, the civic is an economy car. you might be able to make a civic reasonably quick but whats the point its still a civic. why would anybody spend $$$ trying to soup up a civic when they could put that money towards a mustang, camaro or even a WRX which are actually nice cars.

[crisis]

I don't know why people think that civics are fast, the civic is an economy car. you might be able to make a civic reasonably quick but whats the point its still a civic. why would anybody spend $$$ trying to soup up a civic when they could put that money towards a mustang, camaro or even a WRX which are actually nice cars.
Plus they are a front wheel drive crock. Bad Bad movies and pictures of Civics worked to breaking point me thinks is the answer. I dont particulalry like hatch style cars anyway. It is far more difficult to produce large powerful fast cars with good handling characteristics than it is to cop out and build half a car with half an engine and blow pounds of psi into it to make it go.

[Matra et Alpine]

I don't know why people think that civics are fast, the civic is an economy car. you might be able to make a civic reasonably quick but whats the point its still a civic. why would anybody spend $$$ trying to soup up a civic when they could put that money towards a mustang, camaro or even a WRX which are actually nice cars.

erm, Honda Civics have been very successful in rallying and saloon car racing.

They start out as fast and well sorted handling.
Minor tweaks gets a fast car.

Yep, they'll nto do drag strips, but who wants to drive a top fuel dragster.

[Matra et Alpine]

Plus they are a front wheel drive crock. Bad Bad movies and pictures of Civics worked to breaking point me thinks is the answer. I dont particulalry like hatch style cars anyway. It is far more difficult to produce large powerful fast cars with good handling characteristics than it is to cop out and build half a car with half an engine and blow pounds of psi into it to make it go.

Don't know if the US variants may have brain-dead engines and 'soft' suspension. But take a Type-R and you get a great package.

Latest Type-R was 4th fastest on an outing at local track last year.
And all he'd done was replaced the exhaust pipes - even kept the CAT !!

It generateed a lot of respsect on the day ( also it wasn't covered in stupid stickers or chiny bits - THAT's the real problem with the 'rice' and US style of modding these cars )

[Egg Nog]

The owner of this car is officially the biggest idiot in the entire world. Crazy upforce. :)

[crisis]

The owner of this car is officially the biggest idiot in the entire world. Crazy upforce. :)
Unfortunately he has friends. I have seen this type of thing before.

[elmajul]

i can only say that you tune a car to make it the way you like it, its a fun experience and there are a lot of things you can put inside and outisde of your civic to make it good looking and original, if you cant have ideas to modify a car sorry, then go and buy one of that ugly and simple american car to please you, if you dont wish to do it, then stop critizicing the otherones. To conclude i think any car is better than an american car, always.

[Falcon500]

It most certainly is a fun experience indeed but most of the people who do this sort of stuff pay to get it done and as the old Drum rolling tobacco commercials say there’s nothing more satisfying then doing something yourself and most of these people claim they don’t have the time I work 8am-5pm 5 days a week sometimes 6 and some times longer hours I’m stuffed after every day running around being on my feet making sure cars are ready for delivery and trying not to get snapped and I make the time to work on my own cars these people get gay modification which they pay shops to do for them.
And as for original are you thick or something? What’s individual about Japanese Kanji (Single letter words) on your car? What’s individual about something that has been done a million and one times before? Ricers are a case of SSDD (Same Shit Done Differently) what is individual to people who pay attention to this crap only looks the same to everyone else. I am a classic example of lacking in all individuality I own an XY falcon I intend to make a GT replica out of it the most replicated car in this country! I’m not doing it with the claim I’m an individual and I’m not going to drive around like I own the road pumping DOOF DOOF music all over the place because A the car is a personal taste not a personal statement I don’t crave attention that much and B I have taste in music and consideration to others and not to mention a respect for the law. And not to mention is your idea of individual a spoiler put around the wrong way?
And since when is simplicity a bad thing? I drive a Datsun sunny with an A12 pushrod engine it is the most simple thing in the world to work on and older engine of nearly all varieties aren’t as primitive as you might think the Datsun A and B motors for example have fully forged bottom ends and not to mention very well thought out alloy heads (which didn’t warp like most did in the 60s) V8 engines as simplistic as they might be are still quite practical they are not very stressed, they provide smooth effortless cruising and they still are a bench mark for performance I bring you to the example of most Ricers of I beat a V8!
And have you ever heard of domestic rice? No cars are safe from bad taste if you look further on them sites I handed out there is what the man called the GHETTO STANG so your so called crap American cars are also affected by this plague too.
And you’re a total wanker! Wake up any car better then an American car ignorance must be bliss despite their claimed quality problems if you talk to American owners 9 out of 10 don’t actually have any problems with them just like any where else the only reason why they seem to have a worse track record is because they are the biggest market of cars there is in the world! And while I am no fan of imports I don’t mind them in general and I do try to be fair your just being obtuse quite on purpose.
Iknownot many people aregoing to be happy withall this i just said but thats how i feel i think that its fine they can do what they want but when they cruise by my house with their DOOF DOOF crap at 12pm have cars that look gay and try and drag race me while im in my sunny (a clapped out 1.2 liter and their usually in quite healthy new hondas) and make it like its a big deal they beat me when i wasnt actually raceing (unlike some people) i work for a living and depend on my liscence.

[elmajul]

well i can understand your points, but anyway young people has a very different taste with cars than an older person, so you may not agree with this shit of tuning cars, and all of those, but you have to understand people who does it, cause everyone has a way of wasting money and time, you may not like to tune cars, you like simplicity and i dont care about it, you should do the same, try not to care of something that doesnt affect you, well only that crazy beat you hear by your house sometimes, just... close the window, or think in something that please you :o

[Falcon500]

Me an older person at 18?
Wellwhen i say tuneing I believe that actually "tuneing" somthing not adding bits and peices which are turly debateable and sometimes even detralmental to the cars performance (you just seem to be useing the word tuneing too loosely) And also tuneing is somthing i do on the computer Dyno we own (by preformance trends) i spend absolute hours trying to make a combo that will work hard and return good ecconmy (with varing sucsess) that is also what i call a form of tuneing.
And look at it this way i do the work on my own cars simplicity is not a bad thing there and not to mention parts are much cheaper and with only 4 gears m sunny gets more ecconmy then a honda or similar 4 cylender econo box.
And as for the music my windows are closed and things fall off the shelves to give you an idea how loud it is that dude must be def other wise he would of blown his ear drums by now....

[Nildo]

People who do crap like that cost me a lot in high school. When I told people I liked turbo cars and japanese performance I was totally hammered for it. They thought I liked camrys and such with stickers and spoilers and so on, when really I just loved the RH-9 club and the Wangan route competitors in Japan.

Still, I have seen in my local areas bog-standard VN commodores with HRT rear wings on them, and they are an equally ridiculous proposition!

[Falcon500]

Well yes and no the hrt rear wings on the commadores also came out on a standard model same with that rediculous rear wing on the cosworth sierra its goofy looking but a stock item...but on your standard v6 model like a guy i went to school with is somthing i laugh at like any rice burner (i like the added Effect of the clubsport body kit on a base model and the fact it says CLUBSPO on the back hes now added neons and a stero i laugh evrery time) dont think i dont laugh at them either rice burners are more pathetic because most of the time their just ecconmy cars with no balls in the first place. As i said theisnothing wrong with real performance cars and nothing wrong with Buzz boxes (effectivly small 4 cyl sleepers like my fathers 69 1000) just tasteless ones aremy problem.

[Nildo]

I know exactly what you mean. Fortunately for me, I live near a suburb called Sunnybank. It is the Asian hub of queensland, and virtually every car with a sticker on it (driven by an asian guy) packs a real punch. I have seen guys pull out 10-sec time slips from their glove boxes to prove points, and there are also some very impressive drift meets. Looking under the bonnet of a 300km/h supra is pretty exciting too.

And then on the other side of the coin there are the white ricer kids over the fence who do exactly what you say. One bloke I work with owns (no joke) a grey 1989 camry, which he has fitted mags and a big exhaust tip to. Every 10 minutes he walks up to the shop doors to look out and see if it has been stolen, he really believes it is that desireable!

[Falcon500]

Thats what im talking about and to ad another angal to it i find it real sad when a genuinly nice car (eg the blue 92 silvia i saw the other day) is tateslessly modified....its had one hell ofa giant alloy wing was dropped on its guts had a GIANT front air dam body kit on it and really ugly chrome mags and incrwedibly loudy went PSSSSSSSSHHHHHT between gears...Personally i think that the stock and very understated rear wing looks good on them some with the front air damn. Stock alloys in them are nice and mags dont have to be chrome or look likea pile of string thrown on the ground to look nice and the blow off valve not only is that illegal but makes me laugh too....most are fake anyways.That was drivan by an asain BTW their not immune to ruining cars (i dont doubt it was fast he just spoiled the looks of a nice car) itallians and greeks and other such europeans are also prone to ruining cars as well one of their biggest problems is they seem to be colour blind and mix and match fluro colours.
As i said before imports (not including most econo) either stock or tastefully done are nice cars ricers are shit.

[Nildo]

I didn't mean to say asian people are immune to this phenomena, just that there are large numbers of wealthy ones who take it seriously and it is considered rdse to cover your car in stickers for mods you have not done. I agree with you about the Silvia, by the way. People will ruin any good, basic car design and 'uglify' it up just to be original.

[Falcon500]

On an interesting note i have had a lot of people stir me up at the lights in my sunny and while they do flog me (especiallynot helped since the odmetre on my sunny has ticked over more then once and the engine needs a good splash of oil every few months) I just about always and i mean always beat them off the lights! Idont get it these peoplecanstanly attentd street meets (i dont because i dont have a car worth entering) and when the lights turn green i take off the moment it happens....funny the peoplewho think they can race. And yes they do flog me every time as most of the time i stop when i hit the speed limit.

[Blackness]

Cams were invented a while ago. Yep that's great, and pushrod engines used one too. So what's your point? :rolleyes:

[norman]

you've got to take a more outside view to the problem. THe people that do that to a civic are simply just dumbasses. Think about it to yourself, if you can mod the civic and make it a sports car, why dosn't the company do it anyway for you? because its not made for a sports car. They do make sports cars, (integra type-R or even civic type-R) but the point is that the car itself wasn't made to be a racer, and thus i conclude that the people that do that are just stupid. same goes with people who mod their lancer gli to make it into an evo and their hyundai xcels into a bicycle. :p

[mooseTSi]

you've got to take a more outside view to the problem. THe people that do that to a civic are simply just dumbasses. Think about it to yourself, if you can mod the civic and make it a sports car, why dosn't the company do it anyway for you? because its not made for a sports car. They do make sports cars, (integra type-R or even civic type-R) but the point is that the car itself wasn't made to be a racer, and thus i conclude that the people that do that are just stupid. same goes with people who mod their lancer gli to make it into an evo and their hyundai xcels into a bicycle. :p


you just contradicted yourself. and by the way i would consider a s200 a pretty good sports car. and you say its not made to be a racer? racer....are you talking about auto-x, rally, street, track, drag. the company does not make the cars all modded because thenm they wouldnt be cheap and you wouldnt be able to customize engine, exhaust rims etc. granted some times turning a plane lancer in to a evo is gonna be more $$$ then buying one. hyundai xcels into a bicycle... u talking about a hyaibusa swap:)

[civicrider04]

I am 18 and a Civic driver as my ID suggests. With that said, there are just as many people that rice out thier civics as kids that put flowmasters on their mustangs and trucks. And it is all about doing the work yourself, due to this "ricer" craze kids are learning more about cars at a younger age. I have made the decision to become a mechanic and so have a bunch of my classmates. I have equal respect for all cars that have any amount of heart and work put into them.

And by the way, my civic is not "riced"

[crisis]

I am 18 and a Civic driver as my ID suggests. With that said, there are just as many people that rice out thier civics as kids that put flowmasters on their mustangs and trucks. And it is all about doing the work yourself, due to this "ricer" craze kids are learning more about cars at a younger age. I have made the decision to become a mechanic and so have a bunch of my classmates. I have equal respect for all cars that have any amount of heart and work put into them.

And by the way, my civic is not "riced"
Its all good fun. Your car is your own business. Modify it to your own taste. If someone thinks its "riced" , it shouldnt really matter to you. Just dont try to please everyone except yourself.

[thetruelogger]

What is the point of all these riced out cars. MOST will not go fast unless you put forced induction into it. Then you gotta think how long the motor lasts under this type of abuse. Not only that I hear a lot of people talking about how much new technolgie is in the new cars and how V8's will always be inferior. As far as Im concerned all that new tech is just one more thing to go wrong. If these jap motors were so superior than how come top fuel dragsters don't use them. I would like to see a jap motor put out 6500 horsepower. A top fuel does. domestic is also cheaper to build because it is mass produced and overtime all thse parts are fined tuned. So there is no more problems. I could easily build a 400+ horse Ford 302 motor and keep it around longer than 100,000 miles. And I yet to have a jap car beet my 1965 mustang with a mild 302 in it. I guess if you have money to piss awayyou can do what you want.

[MikeMcLarenF1]

pffft... this will burn ricers much easier, efficiently, and mock them so bad they wanna cry mommy. Many ppl already posted these things, but I'm gonna do it again.

Either of my tools here will do the job pretty well.

[junaman]

Lol!!!!!

I believe Spastik Roach has started a series of chops to get people to stop liking ricers.

[MikeMcLarenF1]

I believe Spastik Roach has started a series of chops to get people to stop liking ricers.

yeah.... I already hate them with my guts..... I have to get spas to stop sendin those pics to me over msn :rolleyes:

[Spastik_Roach]

:D I'll keep em coming Mike :p

[MikeMcLarenF1]

:D I'll keep em coming Mike :p
hahahaha :D

[gtface]

I for one am definitely biased toward american cars. I am disgusted when I see other Americans driving around in really expensive japanese sports cars when there are american cars out there that are just as fast if not faster for less money. I do think there are some good japanese sports cars out there, but i could never see myself buying one. The only way this would happen would be if thew jap cars suddenly got a whole lot better and the american cars really started to suck it up. There would have to be a huge difference for me to completely abandon my support for the american economy like that. I realize that most american cars are not built completely in the US, but buying a corvette or a similar car is still probably one of the biggest ways you can support the American economy. And honestly, i thin the american cars are kicking the import's ass in a lot of areas anyway. Sorry for the long post.

[Matra et Alpine]

Does it bother you to see a Ford being driven when there are perfectly good GMs ?
No. Because each person has the right to make THEIR choice on what they want.

Surely that should extend to all aspects of car ownership ?

Nationalistic jingoism and over-zealous pride only makes for inferior products.

If it wasn't for the Japanese there would still be a British biek industry building crap that leaked oil everywhere.

If it wasn't for the Japanese, American cars woudl be bad fit, smelly, heaps of junk.

Recognise that the Japanese industry taught us ALL a lot of lessons we needed to learn and if we hadn't then what we would be driving/using would be a pile of cr@p !!

Now, look BACK at the cars and ask is it what people are DOING with them that seems to upset you. All the stickers and bolt on bits ? It's no different to all the jacked-up rear suspension and fat tyres fitted to cars in the 70s with no suspension and engine mods. People will do things for loosk over substance. Enjoy the difference and you'll feel life is less of a hassle and you won't get called a red-neck :)

[Falcon500]

Well I ambiased towards Australian Cars but there are quite a few findimental diffrences and ones i recognize for the sake of owning something ill enjoy....Supply...the supply of the cars im after (XR6,XR8 Faclons and SS and early Clubsport Commadores) is not always there...its even less frequent you see manaul versions of these cars...a big factor....also if it wasnt for fast and the furious imports and EVO motorsport we wouldent have any specific dealerships that deal in anything in my price range...so theres a prefrence thing and an availability thing too....
That said im after enjoyment...im after a car that suits my needs....gos like stink and looks ok in my books and can do it on a budget that i can afford...so being partiotic is fine...but there is such a thing as liveing with in your means (which i am doing) and there is also such a thing as being an individual...diffrent cars suit diffrent people...hence why you may see people driveing import cars when domestic perform just as good if not better....My wayof being an individual in an import car will not be riceing it :) the description of my taste there is buzz box...louder exaust possibly mags and nothing else "noticable" :)

[Falcon500]

And after makeing my post i realised that matra beat me too it :D

[gtface]

Look, i realize that there are plenty of good import cars out there, and I also realize that competition is a wonderful thing because it causes companies to produce the best products they can at the lowest cost possible. I don't care if someone buy's an import because it really is the only car that will suit his/her needs in that price range, but i don't think this really happens as often as most people seem to believe. Yes the Japanese have dominated the economy car market for quite some time now, but that doesnt mean that there are not any american economy cars that an compete with them. Newer cars like the Ford focus are in my opinion just as good or better than a Honda Civic or a similar car for the money. From what ive heard and seen they are reliable, get good gas mileage, and are faster than most everything in that price range and even more expensive cars (like the base model mitsubishi eclipse). What bugs me even more is when I see nsx's and skylines (which you dont see too often in the US), and other cars in the $80-$100,000 range that could be easily destroyed by the much more reasonably priced vette zo6 in a straight line or even around a curvy track. I believe that the main reason that this situation exists is because most of these people are simply uninformed. I think if more people knew the performance specs of these different cars you would see a lot more corvettes and a lot less nsx's driving around. And yes, I realize that everybody has the right to make there own choice, but know also that I have the right to tell them that they have made a stupid choice. Nobody is making them listen to it. Here is another thing to keep in mind: You will hardly ever see a corvette or a viper driving around in Japan. The Japanese people have a lot more loyalty to domestic products. Does that make them "rednecks"? Does it mean that their products are just better. No it doesn't. They just show more patriotism when it comes to the products that they purchase. They give Japanese products the benefit of the doubt in a close matchup, just as I do with American products (especially cars). I think we as Americans have even more of an obligation to do that, because I believe that this is the greatest country in the world.

[crisis]

Look, i realize that there are plenty of good import cars out there, and I also realize that competition is a wonderful thing because it causes companies to produce the best products they can at the lowest cost possible. I don't care if someone buy's an import because it really is the only car that will suit his/her needs in that price range, but i don't think this really happens as often as most people seem to believe. Yes the Japanese have dominated the economy car market for quite some time now, but that doesnt mean that there are not any american economy cars that an compete with them. Newer cars like the Ford focus are in my opinion just as good or better than a Honda Civic or a similar car for the money. From what ive heard and seen they are reliable, get good gas mileage, and are faster than most everything in that price range and even more expensive cars (like the base model mitsubishi eclipse). What bugs me even more is when I see nsx's and skylines (which you dont see too often in the US), and other cars in the $80-$100,000 range that could be easily destroyed by the much more reasonably priced vette zo6 in a straight line or even around a curvy track. I believe that the main reason that this situation exists is because most of these people are simply uninformed. I think if more people knew the performance specs of these different cars you would see a lot more corvettes and a lot less nsx's driving around. And yes, I realize that everybody has the right to make there own choice, but know also that I have the right to tell them that they have made a stupid choice. Nobody is making them listen to it. Here is another thing to keep in mind: You will hardly ever see a corvette or a viper driving around in Japan. The Japanese people have a lot more loyalty to domestic products. Does that make them "rednecks"? Does it mean that their products are just better. No it doesn't. They just show more patriotism when it comes to the products that they purchase. They give Japanese products the benefit of the doubt in a close matchup, just as I do with American products (especially cars). I think we as Americans have even more of an obligation to do that, because I believe that this is the greatest country in the world.
Nearly had me except for the last sentence. Glad your happy there though. I am pretty happy to buy Australian cars cause they make what I like. I like a few Jap cars too. Adverse reactions to Jap "imports" can largely be traced back to the ricer/fanboy culture which some find annoying. Many young guys live their life through their cars ( a few old farts too) so they are expressions of themselves or how they want to be percieved. A lot of things adolescents do can grate ( I was one so I know) , just let em enjoy themselves and get along thinking quietly to yourself you know better.
I will agree that you probably dont see many American cars in Japan. Its because their market is probably more trade restrictive than yours.

[Falcon500]

Look, i realize that there are plenty of good import cars out there, and I also realize that competition is a wonderful thing because it causes companies to produce the best products they can at the lowest cost possible. I don't care if someone buy's an import because it really is the only car that will suit his/her needs in that price range, but i don't think this really happens as often as most people seem to believe.

True thios competition keeps them building better products which helps everyone in the long run....But of course what you may or may not believe may not actually suit someone else...If im rembering correctly NoOne owns an RX8 (correct me if im wrong) which is a sporty car which also suits his familys needs...A mustang would of done the same job with similar seating and luggage space...performance would of been similarfuel ecconmy about the same too...but acsessability to the back seats rear leg room and some individuality would of been lost if he took the mustang(which would of been my prefernece in this example)


Yes the Japanese have dominated the economy car market for quite some time now, but that doesnt mean that there are not any american economy cars that an compete with them. Newer cars like the Ford focus are in my opinion just as good or better than a Honda Civic or a similar car for the money.From what ive heard and seen they are reliable, get good gas mileage, and are faster than most everything in that price range and even more expensive cars (like the base model mitsubishi eclipse)..

Nit picking...isnt the focus european?
But still rember speed isnt everything ESPECIALLY when talking about econo cars...also there is the case of astetics and shit again....


What bugs me even more is when I see nsx's and skylines (which you dont see too often in the US), and other cars in the $80-$100,000 range that could be easily destroyed by the much more reasonably priced vette zo6 in a straight line or even around a curvy track. I believe that the main reason that this situation exists is because most of these people are simply uninformed. I think if more people knew the performance specs of these different cars you would see a lot more corvettes and a lot less nsx's driving around. .

Easily destroyed....im no fans of the cars you said could be easily destroyed here and im queastioning what fact you base this off...prehaps are a fair matchup?


And yes, I realize that everybody has the right to make there own choice, but know also that I have the right to tell them that they have made a stupid choice. Nobody is making them listen to it. .

And therefore is our right to call you a bigot...not that you have to listen (which you dont)



Here is another thing to keep in mind: You will hardly ever see a corvette or a viper driving around in Japan. The Japanese people have a lot more loyalty to domestic products. Does that make them "rednecks"? Does it mean that their products are just better. No it doesn't. They just show more patriotism when it comes to the products that they purchase. They give Japanese products the benefit of the doubt in a close matchup, just as I do with American products (especially cars). I think we as Americans have even more of an obligation to do that, because I believe that this is the greatest country in the world.

Well the mustang actually has a sturdy market in japan and also one of our local magazines STREET MACHINE has made an effort to cover ome large drag raceing events all over the world (usually with as many v8s as they could find) and modifde mustangs and even oldermore collectable car like a pontiac GTO and a few chrysler hemis came out of several collectors stables....they have their fan base dont you worry about that....

And as i said pariatisum is all good and true but you could just well be suckering yourself out of a good buy not opening your eyes :)...and in the unlikly situation of me buying a new car i can assure you very strongly it would not be a jap model....im happy buying jap cars used because it helps local buisness...if im buying new itll be domestic...in either of my showing of partiotisum i help local buisness :)

[Matra et Alpine]

I tried not to, honest, but I have to respond ......

...I don't care if someone buy's an import because it really is the only car that will suit his/her needs in that price range, but i don't think this really happens as often as most people seem to believe.
Well at least your consistent with the bias.

Yes the Japanese have dominated the economy car market for quite some time now, but that doesnt mean that there are not any american economy cars that an compete with them. Newer cars like the Ford focus are in my opinion just as good or better than a Honda Civic or a similar car for the money. From what ive heard and seen they are reliable, get good gas mileage, and are faster than most everything in that price range and even more expensive cars (like the base model mitsubishi eclipse).
Ford Focus is an OK car but isn't in the same league as the Honda for reliability or performance ( consupmtion etc ).
BTW< I'm NOT a Japanese fanboy, they build to a price and a process.
It's NOT all god, but to trhough baby out with bathwater would be foolish.

What bugs me even more is when I see nsx's and skylines (which you dont see too often in the US), and other cars in the $80-$100,000 range that could be easily destroyed by the much more reasonably priced vette zo6 in a straight line or even around a curvy track.
cough splutter, well an nsx is a 20 year old design so waht are you trying to say ?
And a SKYLINE is a frigging behemoth saloon car !!
If you're comparing cars at least level the playing field.
You're being directed by the buying trends of image over content. Neither of these are modern sportscars.
Fact is Japan hasn't tried to make a mainstream sportscar as even the Mazda has the 'rotary' tag to slant it's design objectives.

I believe that the main reason that this situation exists is because most of these people are simply uninformed. I think if more people knew the performance specs of these different cars you would see a lot more corvettes and a lot less nsx's driving around.
You've forgotten the 10,000 ohter reasons cars are purchased.
Weight, looks, nimbleness and yes even cachet !!

And yes, I realize that everybody has the right to make there own choice, but know also that I have the right to tell them that they have made a stupid choice. Nobody is making them listen to it.
Do you accept the right that others also have then to repeat it back to you without you getting upset ?
Or just the plain right that for their life choices they are ALREADY right and you're wrong ??

Here is another thing to keep in mind: You will hardly ever see a corvette or a viper driving around in Japan.
erm, you see a LOT of EUropeean luxurt cars in Japan, so I don't know on what basis you're making those statements. Who is telling you you don't see a lot ?
You don't see alot of corvettes in the UK either.
Frankly you don't see a lot outside of USA. You see some.
How many do you EXPECT to see ?
I think you're comparing the numebr of performance posrtscars in Japan versus the number of 'family' cars in the US> THAT's not a comparison that makes sense.
I suspect ( and on this one I've no hard evidence othher than having see a few Lotuis in Tokyo ) that you'll see the same nbumber of any high -erformance sports car as any other and as pretty much in most countries. It's only a few who won those kind of cars !!

The Japanese people have a lot more loyalty to domestic products. Does that make them "rednecks"? Does it mean that their products are just better. No it doesn't. They just show more patriotism when it comes to the products that they purchase.
Yep. But they don't transfer that patriotism to project that everytinhg else is bad and anyoen NOTmaking theur choice is wrong.
THAT is what usually gets the "redbeck" label.
There is a BIG difference.

They give Japanese products the benefit of the doubt in a close matchup, just as I do with American products (especially cars). I think we as Americans have even more of an obligation to do that, because I believe that this is the greatest country in the world.
See that last bit was where you lost the plot and the discussion and your POV. ( and triggered me to respond - DAMN I said I would again !! :) )
All the Japanese folsk I've met in business and out aren't as anti-other-solutions as you are. they WILL look at alternatives, they will go with the best match to needs. Japanese companies are jsut better at producing prodcts to MATCH markets. Rather than forcing inferior stuff on us with good 'marketing' HELL, BL in the UK was the worst at THIS for decades !!

US perfomrance manufactureres focussed on selling POWER to the US consumer coz that was something easy to make and sell. So you go fast cars that wallowed like battleship at the first corner. Frankly you got awful cars because of it and let competition in that could have been met head on with a different approach. You can't than complain whn other cars offer different factors that end up becoming dominant in a part of the buying publics minds.

[gtface]

And therefore is our right to call you a bigot...not that you have to listen (which you dont)


Are you saying that I am a bigot because i tall someone that I dont agree with what they are doing? If this is the case, wouldn't that make you a bigot for telling me that I am doing something wrong? I have never been to Japan personally, but I know a lot of people who have, and a lot of them have told me that almost everyone there drives a Japanese car, and it is an issue of pride in their country. And I don't know why you are saying that the nsx and skyline are not modern sports cars. Almost everyone I have ever talked to about these cars has spent the whole time telling me how superior they were because of all of the modern technology. What baffled me was when I actually looked up the specs on these cars and realized that they were a substantial amount slower than a corvette for twice the money. I simply don't understand why an american that had any patriotism whatsoever would spend that much money on a foreign car when there is a faster alternative for far less money. Unless of course the person only cares about the car's looks, but i see that as somewhat superficial anyway.

[gtface]

See that last bit was where you lost the plot and the discussion and your POV. ( and triggered me to respond - DAMN I said I would again !! :) )
All the Japanese folsk I've met in business and out aren't as anti-other-solutions as you are. they WILL look at alternatives, they will go with the best match to needs. Japanese companies are jsut better at producing prodcts to MATCH markets. Rather than forcing inferior stuff on us with good 'marketing' HELL, BL in the UK was the worst at THIS for decades !!

US perfomrance manufactureres focussed on selling POWER to the US consumer coz that was something easy to make and sell. So you go fast cars that wallowed like battleship at the first corner. Frankly you got awful cars because of it and let competition in that could have been met head on with a different approach. You can't than complain whn other cars offer different factors that end up becoming dominant in a part of the buying publics minds.

I dont refuse to LOOK at alternatives, I just don't CHOOSE them. My opinions are based on logic and facts. I know youre probably gonna say that patriotism is an emotional thing but for me its not. The reasons for my belief in the greatness of this country are also based on facts. I dont really want to get into that because it is a total political discussion and this is supposed to be about cars. All that stuff anout American cars not being able to handle is not so relevant anymore. I know the focus is supposed to handle very well, and more expensive cars like the zo6, saleen s7, and ford gt handle extremely well. Im sure ther are still a lot of poor handling american cars, but most of them are big cars and most big cars dont handle very well. blah

[Falcon500]

Its not at all logical to not look at alternatives...something just may be better for your needs....and your facts seem to have holes in them....not allthese cars are slower...some of them are even faster...face facts rather then looking at a select few :)
And i used the word BIGOT becuase it meens and ill quote websters dictionary 1. one who obstinatly and unreasonably wedded to a particular belief or creed
2.dogmatist

[Matra et Alpine]

...lot of them have told me that almost everyone there drives a Japanese car, and it is an issue of pride in their country.
maybe you should question those peoples inputs to your deicision making.
Pride in what they produce is a nationalist factor, they brought that whole mindset to a lazy industry.
Pride in what they own/drive is not nationilistic. However, you do have higher costs to import a Euroepan or US car into Japan. It s an island :)

And I don't know why you are saying that the nsx and skyline are not modern sports cars. Almost everyone I have ever talked to about these cars has spent the whole time telling me how superior they were because of all of the modern technology.
Are these the same ones informing you on Japanese family car wonershipo.
They are talking rubbish.
The Honda NSX was introduced to the market in 1990. 14 YEARS ago.
The fact that some of the technology is still not widespread isn't a negative for the marque !!
- all alloy engine.
- titanium connecting rods
- fly-by-wire throttle
- programmable fuel injection
- all aluminum body
- VTEC variable valve timing.
- all-aluminum 4 wheel double-wishbone suspension,
- TCS,
- 4ch ABS,
- electronic power steering

14 YEARS ago and only now are some manufacturers trumpeting loudly about introducing some of this :)

The Skyline's computer controlled diffs, suspensoin and traction crontrl put it streets ahead in handling.
What must be remembered this thing has the aerodynamics of a birck shithouse and the weight of a Winnebago !! and it can STILL see track times faster than so-called sportscars.
So it's NOT the ultimate, but what it is has to be recognised.


- What baffled me was when I actually looked up the specs on these cars and realized that they were a substantial amount slower than a corvette for twice the money.
Well I'm well known in UCP for challenging some of the numbers put in the press on American 'muscle' cars especially when it comes to only looking at 0-60. Gearing, tyres and road conditions make these a pointless exercise for anything beyond bragging rights and marketing headlines. I won't repeat myself beyond that, you can find my posts on it elsewheere with a little searching :)
Still, you are comparing cars design 15 years ago with NEW.
Compare the Camaro Z28 with eother of theses. I had the 'joy' of driving one of these in the 80s.
MAN I've never been so shocked at the inadequacy of a car in my life.
Do I judge all American cars of TODAY with that experience ? NO - it does make me take numbers with a large pinch of salt though as I still have people enthusing about the Z28 when I recount my horror !!

I simply don't understand why an american that had any patriotism whatsoever would spend that much money on a foreign car when there is a faster alternative for far less money. Unless of course the person only cares about the car's looks, but i see that as somewhat superficial anyway.
Or it's resale value, or it's comfort, or it's colour, or its storage etc etc
We all buy cars for different reasons.
I know few Americans would buy my ideal car - VERY lightweight bare-bones fastest, nimbleset sports car. Just not appropriate for US conditions. The idea of sitting in an Elise for 8 hours to go visit relations for the weekend :(
Yet, you seem to think there IS the car only for Americans and some how nobody else can make a better one.
Best advise I have is to travel beyond your state limits and try to travel the world to appreciate the real differences in all aspects of life and especially CARS. You'll have a different view by then. Even if it's only as simple as a car that doesn't go "bong-bong-bong-bong" just because I've opened a door with a light on :)
Here's a simple exercise we use with te kids in our school -- say 3 GOOD things about each of those cars where it is better than it's alternative BEFORE you say the one you find most inferioir. This is a good trick to use in live to ensure we keep balanced and objective.

[Matra et Alpine]

I dont refuse to LOOK at alternatives, I just don't CHOOSE them. My opinions are based on logic and facts. I know youre probably gonna say that patriotism is an emotional thing but for me its not. The reasons for my belief in the greatness of this country are also based on facts. I dont really want to get into that because it is a total political discussion and this is supposed to be about cars. All that stuff anout American cars not being able to handle is not so relevant anymore.
BS, handling has improved, iBUT t's a LONG way from the precision and control of Euroepan models. I drive both regularly. They're designed for different roads and expectations.

until you gain experience your logic and facts are actually built on biased reported OPINION so are actually limited worth.

I agree not to continue this, but we're not averse to side topics in UCP. Feel free to open a thread in miscellaneous on the subject and as long as no grudges are carried over, you'll find quite a few differeing views from around the world here which may enlighten,

[gtface]

Its not at all logical to not look at alternatives...something just may be better for your needs....and your facts seem to have holes in them....not allthese cars are slower...some of them are even faster...face facts rather then looking at a select few :)
And i used the word BIGOT becuase it meens and ill quote websters dictionary 1. one who obstinatly and unreasonably wedded to a particular belief or creed
2.dogmatist

Who said I wasn't looking at alternatives? I just said I could never see myself buying one of these cars, but I have looked at them plenty. Let me give you an idea of what I am talking about.

Skyline R34: 0-60 in 5.2 seconds, 1/4 mile in 13.7, .89g on skidpad, $89,500
Acura NSX: 0-60 in 5.2 seconds, 1/4 mile in 13.8, .92g on skidpad, $88,000
Corvette ZO6: 0-60 in 3.9, 1/4 mile in 12.4, .99g on the skidpad, $49,000

It is obvious that all of these cars are designed almost entirely for one purpose, and that is performance. They certainly arent made to hold a lot of people or luggage, or to get good gas mileage (and the vette also gets the best gas mileage of the three). Now what reasonable person, who is looking at all the alternatives (and I realize that these are not all of the alternatives), and who cares about performance, would pick either the nsx or the skyline over th zo6? It seems like a person who would make this choice would have to have some kind of a major bias AGAINST American cars. And I believe that anyone who does this is ignorant and unpatriotic. Now you tell me what is unreasonable about my belief.

[Matra et Alpine]

...Now what reasonable person, who is looking at all the alternatives (and I realize that these are not all of the alternatives), and who cares about performance, would pick either the nsx or the skyline over th zo6? It seems like a person who would make this choice would have to have some kind of a major bias AGAINST American cars. And I believe that anyone who does this is ignorant and unpatriotic. Now you tell me what is unreasonable about my belief.
erm because you confuse car choices with patriotism.
AND you use failry pointless measures.
SKid pan figures for continuous circles do NOT stress a suspensions dynamic performance.
It's all static.
The Skyline would EAT the 'vette on a twisty course where the computer controlled drive and suspension shows amazing capaility to give some agility to a BRICK.
AND FINALLY you still compare old cars with latest. but as I'd said as you confuse patriotism with car choices then you will contineu to do that :)
Take a pure sportsca rand the 'vette doesn't come close.

A true patriot of a democratic and free nation would EMBRACE the diversity of choice offered AND MADE.

[gtface]

Still, you are comparing cars design 15 years ago with NEW.
Compare the Camaro Z28 with eother of theses. I had the 'joy' of driving one of these in the 80s.
MAN I've never been so shocked at the inadequacy of a car in my life.
Do I judge all American cars of TODAY with that experience ? NO - it does make me take numbers with a large pinch of salt though as I still have people enthusing about the Z28 when I recount my horror !!


What turned you off so much about the z28? Maybe camaros were really crappy in the 80's and theyve improved a lot. I own a 6 cylinder camaro right now. I know its not the greatest or most powerful car in the world but I really enjoy driving it. Im going to sell it soon so I can get a late model camaro ss (1999-2002). I love these cars because they have 325 hp and 345 ft/lb of torque, and can hold 4 people or carry all of my musical equipment (which is a lot). The gas mileage is also pretty decent for such a powerful car.

[Matra et Alpine]

What turned you off so much about the z28? Maybe camaros were really crappy in the 80's and theyve improved a lot. I own a 6 cylinder camaro right now. I know its not the greatest or most powerful car in the world but I really enjoy driving it. Im going to sell it soon so I can get a late model camaro ss (1999-2002). I love these cars because they have 325 hp and 345 ft/lb of torque, and can hold 4 people or carry all of my musical equipment (which is a lot). The gas mileage is also pretty decent for such a powerful car.
IT WAS the 80s !!
When I got to about 60 it was wandering all over the road. It needed constant input on the wheel to keep it going reasonably straight. The steering was vague and it wallowed on quick corner changes. The brakes had NO feel and the tyres lost grip at the slightest push. I didn't DARE take it about 80 and by then it was frankly a horrible thing to drive.
I took it back to the rental and complained strongly. So much so the guy actually came out WITH me and I was informed that that's the way they all were.
Suspension settings and steering has improved leaps and bounds in US market cars since then.
However, to a European they are still not as precise or as communicative.
There again hitting a NY pot hole in a Europaan Ford would likely tear the wheel from your grip and break your arms. As I'd said different needs :)

We host many US customers over here and I can provide the confirmation that they are universally surprised at the way a car will instantly change direction with no drama on the turn of a wheel. With those I've taken on track they are equally surprised at how extended the limits are of run-of-the-mill sports cars.

[gtface]

I definitely embrace the fact that we have choice, but I dont think that changes the fact that there are good and bad choices. There is nothing un-democratic about disagreeing with someone or telling them that I think they have made a poor decision. But at the same time I have to realize that I am also capable of making a poor choice have to be open and objective toward the suggestions of other people. But being willing to listen to others' ideas doesnt mean that you have to refrain from voicing your own opinion. I realize that skidpad is not the best statistic for handling but it was the best thing I could find at the time for all of the cars. What is it that you think is innaccurate about the other stats, like the 0-60 and quarter mile times? I got those stats from sites just like this one, as well as the websites for magazines like "Car and Driver" and "Road and Track".

[gtface]

I almost forgot, I have read articles in some of the major automotive magazines where the corvette has been put up against the skyline and nsx and won in a race on a curvy track. If I can find any of this stuff on the net Ill post it for you.

[Matra et Alpine]

What is it that you think is innaccurate about the other stats, like the 0-60 and quarter mile times? I got those stats from sites just like this one, as well as the websites for magazines like "Car and Driver" and "Road and Track".
obsession with 0-60 means manufacturers put forward cars with gear ratios and wheel size to optimise that figure.
So you get to 60 with only one gear change, but that would make the car a nightmare around town.

Using 'tuners' versions of cars, they take the specialisation to meet the figures to another level.

The Lingenfelter is running tyres which to the letter of the law are street legal but are basically cut slicks.

Standing versus rolling starts :)

So it's not INACCURACY, it is INPROPRIATENESS to the real world.

THe power of marketing is all in todays world, so where a comapny 20 years ago would pulish real figures, they justify they cannot afford to do that today. So we get makers like Koneigsegg who use theoritcal numbers in promoting their car performance. A performance it never matches in the real world. BUT they woldn't have got as much attention with real numbers. Compare that with Lotus, Vuxhall/Opel, Noble, Caterham , Westfield et al.

We've a tradition of demanding REAL numbers from real situations. It's the core reason why Top Gear and now Fifth Gear use a track to test car performance and handling.

So the 'vette IS a great car, we're talking minor differences. BUT it's not as good as all the numbers published as they don't all belong to the one car :)

Another example -- You can't take a Radical road going version and expect to make the same lap record at Nordschleife. THAT car was lowerd had the anti-roll bars fitted front and rear and had the undertray aero pack. You CAN option all that for your road going version, but you can't then take it anywhere other than a smooth car park !! So the Radical is the fastest, but is it the same as the one I buy in the showroom to use on the road. Neither was the 'vette that had the previosu record there.

So in reading any number it's necessary to ask the questions to fully understand the comparison. That's all I'm trying to point out. And in different situations different pieces of that jigsaw are more important than otheres.

[Matra et Alpine]

I almost forgot, I have read articles in some of the major automotive magazines where the corvette has been put up against the skyline and nsx and won in a race on a curvy track. If I can find any of this stuff on the net Ill post it for you.
Are we taling stock cars ?
Howheavilty modified ??
If you find data, please pre-qualify it.

Besides, we're still stuck comparing cars designed 20 years ago with the 'latest' :)

[gtface]

You keep saying that the skyline and the nsx have been around for twenty years, but haven't they been changed and updated over the years? You know, how they have the R32, the R33, and the R34 for the skyline, and the NSX-T and all the other versions? I mean, the Corvette has been around for over 50 years but it has also been changed so I don't really see the difference. And the zo6 is still using a 350 with pushrods and everything so whats so new about that?

[Falcon500]

You keep saying that the skyline and the nsx have been around for twenty years, but haven't they been changed and updated over the years? You know, how they have the R32, the R33, and the R34 for the skyline, and the NSX-T and all the other versions? I mean, the Corvette has been around for over 50 years but it has also been changed so I don't really see the difference. And the zo6 is still using a 350 with pushrods and everything so whats so new about that?
They have been around for 20 years..and in the same basic form too...thats called refinement which the americans have down to an art form changeing slight things every year....look at the intorudction of the current fox body mustang...other then the introduction of a modular motor little changed just bits here and there...then came the huffer...little changes here and there its a good package fromthe start but the new models are quitesimilar to the earlier models.....why do you think modern v8s are erstwile performers? because they continuously improve them they have to! other wise theyll fall behind the 8 ball...lookwhat happened to ford when they stuck with the flat head...they where behind gms ohv model and they lost alot of development not switching when they should of.....
And they havent always had 350s as the top motor....i rember a few key numbers like 396,427 and 454...also what about the name lotus....who built thier limited run quad cam v8s.....
And american tracks are not good yard sticks too anything most are free flowing and have minor turns...

[Slicks]

I almost forgot, I have read articles in some of the major automotive magazines where the corvette has been put up against the skyline and nsx and won in a race on a curvy track. If I can find any of this stuff on the net Ill post it for you.
I have yet to see a Z06 loose to an NSX, and especially a skyline...

[KnifeEdge_2K1]

is this rice or not?

ps those who know what i'm trying to do, don't say anything :D

[Blue Supra]

k, evos are sweeeeet cars, but that is honestly rice, too many decals killed it. but thats my opinion only. :p

[crisis]

One of the least appealing aesthetic improvements (?) I find are the decals and stickers. TRD and Nismo on cars that have none such improvements. Its like having a Commodore with a HSV sticker on it (for the Aussies). I can only imagine you would do that if all the stickers with wanker on them were sold out. Also nothing like a Kenwood, Alpine or Pioneer sticker to attract any interested theives. Great advertising. When I was into altering my cars appearance I actually removed badges and chrome mouldings to achieve a cleaner look. Im sure people would have looked at that with disdain also.

[cls12vg30]

How about the people that get a Nismo radiator cap and then feel entitled to put a Nismo sticker on the car? :rolleyes:

[KnifeEdge_2K1]

YALL GOT OWNED, that is the ****ing sparco apexi evo man. 400 hp and 334 foot pound of torque man, 1.05 on the skidpad, 0-60 in 3.9 secs, 11.9 second 1/4mile. If that's rice then ill be damned :D. In the Sport Compact Car magazine article which included 8 tuned evos and 1 stock evo, the sparco apexi evo was fastest through the track. HOW'S THAT FOR RICE YO, i blocked out the decals with the paint program :D, didnt think neone would be dumb enuff to fall for it though

[RX7 FC3S]

well... you told those who know what's happening not to say anything. So, those who reply should fall into the "trap"...

Though I thought I have seen the car somewhere before, but I wasn't able to recall it is the sparco project car right away. However, I did notice the stickers that you removed (mainly because of the red A from apexi. Normally if there is just the "A", it should be centered rather than on the side). And pay a little more attention, you probably can see the cage too (the blue metal bar thingy on both sides of the windshield. Well, at least I think it is the cage). I have seen a lot of ricer cars (the best one is a red grand am with the sticker "I feed my car with honda (or some phrase like that)"), but I have never seen one would be "serious" enough to put a cage in it. Then I started to dig out my mags and see if I can find something. And finally realize it is the sparco project evo.

by the way, this car reach 60s in 3.7s and will cost most of us an arm and a leg (heck, probably both arms and all legs).

However, I do agree that the car's decals are a little bit too excessive.

[KnifeEdge_2K1]

i stand corrected, i just didnt think neone would be dumb enuff to fall for it, afterall my paint job (pun intended :D) was pretty crappy

[Falcon500]

YALL GOT OWNED, that is the ****ing sparco apexi evo man. 400 hp and 334 foot pound of torque man, 1.05 on the skidpad, 0-60 in 3.9 secs, 11.9 second 1/4mile. If that's rice then ill be damned :D. In the Sport Compact Car magazine article which included 8 tuned evos and 1 stock evo, the sparco apexi evo was fastest through the track. HOW'S THAT FOR RICE YO, i blocked out the decals with the paint program :D, didnt think neone would be dumb enuff to fall for it though
Its specs are flash but i dont give a rats ass it still looks shit! jeeze you have a great trap there :rolleyes: personally i think its quite lame and no matter how powerful that rice burner is its still lame looking and is still built to appeal to ricers.....that in essense is my complaint tastless add ons and fart can exausts etc etc.

[KnifeEdge_2K1]

Its specs are flash but i dont give a rats ass it still looks shit! jeeze you have a great trap there :rolleyes: personally i think its quite lame and no matter how powerful that rice burner is its still lame looking and is still built to appeal to ricers.....that in essense is my complaint tastless add ons and fart can exausts etc etc.

!?!?! isnt the definition of ricer well .. unofficial definition a guy who puts useless accesories on their car?

this car was built by 2 of the most prestigious companies in the auto after market industry, has FUNCTIONAL accesories, with seats from an ENZO FERRARI, puts out more power than arnold in all the terminator movies combined and can go faster than a ferrari 360 or porsche 911 (any of em) on the track and on the road ... thats useless?
wow ... ur either seriously blind or arrogant beyond belief

[Blue Supra]

YALL GOT OWNED, that is the ****ing sparco apexi evo man. 400 hp and 334 foot pound of torque man, 1.05 on the skidpad, 0-60 in 3.9 secs, 11.9 second 1/4mile. If that's rice then ill be damned :D. In the Sport Compact Car magazine article which included 8 tuned evos and 1 stock evo, the sparco apexi evo was fastest through the track. HOW'S THAT FOR RICE YO, i blocked out the decals with the paint program :D, didnt think neone would be dumb enuff to fall for it though

i dont car if its got 1200hp even! it still looks like a ricer and i wouldnt drive it, yeh posting the pics with no specs also helped man, how the **** can we be expected to know that its modded under the hood without looking under the hood? think about it! we cant see it (except for that one foto to go by) cant look it over,cant hear it so again how the hell are we sposed to know its a bloody uber evo. nice trap mate, maybe you should try putting some thought into your next one before you go shooting your mouth off at people. :p

[Falcon500]

!?!?! isnt the definition of ricer well .. unofficial definition a guy who puts useless accesories on their car?

this car was built by 2 of the most prestigious companies in the auto after market industry, has FUNCTIONAL accesories, with seats from an ENZO FERRARI, puts out more power than arnold in all the terminator movies combined and can go faster than a ferrari 360 or porsche 911 (any of em) on the track and on the road ... thats useless?
wow ... ur either seriously blind or arrogant beyond belief
No not really to me a ricer is someone who tastelessly modifys a car...sterotypically they are useless...but the gaudyness of that car makes it rice no matter how good it is....
And you obviously cant read....i never said boo about its performance(i said its performance was flash)....i just said it looks lame and the fact that the car is built to appeal to ricers...which it seems to have done.....YOU (not ur) must either be seriously blind or arrogant beyond belief....either that or you have serious holes in your education or your head (or both)

[KnifeEdge_2K1]

No not really to me a ricer is someone who tastelessly modifys a car...sterotypically they are useless...but the gaudyness of that car makes it rice no matter how good it is....
And you obviously cant read....i never said boo about its performance(i said its performance was flash)....i just said it looks lame and the fact that the car is built to appeal to ricers...which it seems to have done.....YOU (not ur) must either be seriously blind or arrogant beyond belief....either that or you have serious holes in your education or your head (or both)

ur is YOU ARE

considering ricer is not an actual word there is no use debating what its definition is

what EXACTLy is lame about it newayz the stickers? the wing? the intercooler? almost everythign on that car has actual purpose (except for the stickers, its only natural to put your logo on your product, thats like saying mcdonalds big macs or lame because they have a mickey D logo on the box ...

[johnnynumfiv]

Is there really a point to put a spoiler on a fwd car?

[Matra et Alpine]

Is there really a point to put a spoiler on a fwd car?
Yes.

You still want to put a splitter to control airflow UNDER the car and also to direct air flow to feed the front discs ( assuming vented/drilled :) )

Short wheelbase cars have big problems trying to use the air at the fornt effecctively. Hence why the Metro 6R4 sprouted that stupid front WING :)

[Slicks]

ur is YOU ARE

considering ricer is not an actual word there is no use debating what its definition is

what EXACTLy is lame about it newayz the stickers? the wing? the intercooler? almost everythign on that car has actual purpose (except for the stickers, its only natural to put your logo on your product, thats like saying mcdonalds big macs or lame because they have a mickey D logo on the box ...
I know what your saying, but is it really neccesary to have stickers and a "look at me everyone" flashy paintjob? It does seem like its trying to appeal to ricers...

[KnifeEdge_2K1]

I know what your saying, but is it really neccesary to have stickers and a "look at me everyone" flashy paintjob? It does seem like its trying to appeal to ricers...

so are formula 1 cars or wrc cars rice? they have stickers :D

[Egg Nog]

so are formula 1 cars or wrc cars rice? they have stickers :D

Does anyone get paid to put "HONDA POWER" across their windscreen?

[KnifeEdge_2K1]

Does anyone get paid to put "HONDA POWER" across their windscreen?
i do ... :P

[Falcon500]

ur is YOU ARE

considering ricer is not an actual word there is no use debating what its definition is

what EXACTLy is lame about it newayz the stickers? the wing? the intercooler? almost everythign on that car has actual purpose (except for the stickers, its only natural to put your logo on your product, thats like saying mcdonalds big macs or lame because they have a mickey D logo on the box ...
Well ur looks like a chimp is trying to spell something....

Your the one who broughtup the definition...dopnt start something if your going to shy away when someone queastions it....

Well advertising has its place say on a race car or a cigartte packet...but when its put on a car (especially one that is nota sponsored race car) you really have to wonder if the A) forget what they have on their car B) Have really low self esteemand need to bignote such items and C) are providing theifs with a shopping list of whats worth pinching on the car.....And on a car when the are put over a tasteless arrangement of paint if just looks plain shit....
And no i dont think thatf1 cars and rally cars are rice...they get payed to do so and have idiots on our roads replicating that......
although I have a few admissions of bad taste if i get a 240 or 260 Z i will be very tempted to get a "BATSON" sticker across the top of the windshield...and if i do get anything else that isnt a v8 id get either a "only milk and juice comes in 2 liters" or a "I wish i was a v8" sticker on the car :) a strange bit of humor....much like the guy in a commadore who had a picture of a dude pissing on a holden badge :rolleyes: ....

[Slicks]

so are formula 1 cars or wrc cars rice? they have stickers :D
Figured that would get brought up...
They are actually sponsered by those companies, and arnt trying to do it to make the car look "racey", or appeal to a certain group, they are simply advertising. Like for example in nascar, when a ford car wins on sunday more ford sell on monday, same goes for the sponsers, when the budlight car wins more budlight sells etc etc.

[Egg Nog]

Figured that would get brought up...
They are actually sponsered by those companies, and arnt trying to do it to make the car look "racey", or appeal to a certain group, they are simply advertising. Like for example in nascar, when a ford car wins on sunday more ford sell on monday, same goes for the sponsers, when the budlight car wins more budlight sells etc etc.

I already mocked him about that ;)... look up a few posts :)

[Slicks]

I already mocked him about that ;)... look up a few posts :)
Damnit I wanted to moch him! :mad: :p

[KnifeEdge_2K1]

so putting a sparco or apexi sticker on a sparco and apexi sponsored/built car ... doesnt = advertising? ok now im confused
so does this mean a mugen nsx or s2000 is rice?

[hellraiser93gt]

Like I said before anyone can take a huge engine and put it in rwd car. But when the car is getting like 60 hp per liter, i don't care about it. As far as i care its only 10 hp more a liter then a mustang. The corvette and the cobra are nice cars. But the mustang cobra had a solid rear axle up to at least this year (i don't know if they fixed it this year). And the old cobra is well, old. The corvette Z06 is a respectable american car because it is not marketed the same as the classless viper or not as expensive as a saleen or gt40. American cars a just all around behind. Behind it technology (still using pushrods?! the hell is wrong with you people?) Cams were inveted how long ago by duesenberg? Even if the viper is faster, i would take a NSX or even an s2000. And youve got 30 iq over me? Then why do you like american cars? If youre such a high genius you should be able to understand 8 liters is way to big and deserves not respect.


correction cobras had independant rear suspension since 1996 they also had dual over head cams since 96' hmmmm cams were invented a long time ago and i think every internal combustion engine had at least one , are you trying to say that lifters somehow magicly lift the pushrods????? just a thought. hey i guess ignorance is bliss

[hellraiser93gt]

ohhhh yeah they recently came out with the new mach 1 it has a four valve dual over head cam engine connected to a solid rear axle which is better for drag racing you should look into it

[Matra et Alpine]

ohhhh yeah they recently came out with the new mach 1 it has a four valve dual over head cam engine connected to a solid rear axle which is better for drag racing you should look into it
Seriously ? That is their justification ?
So soccer mom's now need optimised drag racers to drive kiddies to practice and they can trade in their 4x4s ??
:)

[DodgeNitroBIRM]

Oh, good grief. Not this Ricer Vs. Huge-Engine-Bubba thing again. I thought we got over that with "guty" and the guy with the Skyline name.

[Falcon500]

Seriously ? That is their justification ?
So soccer mom's now need optimised drag racers to drive kiddies to practice and they can trade in their 4x4s ??
:)
Well it at least gets them in smaller cars...and also limites the ammount of people they can fit in the car....and i thought the Gt mustang wouldof been more pointed at people around 25.....Can afford a true performance car but can afford the base level v8?

[Slicks]

correction cobras had independant rear suspension since 1996 they also had dual over head cams since 96' hmmmm cams were invented a long time ago and i think every internal combustion engine had at least one , are you trying to say that lifters somehow magicly lift the pushrods????? just a thought. hey i guess ignorance is bliss
Correction again, the Cobra got IRS in 99.

[USmuscle5.0]

u are all way to bias. there is only a few who aren't. i don't get why everyone bashes everyone else. it makes no sense. the ricers are saying that muscle cars suck because that they are behind in technology. that used to be the case, but now ford is using dual-overhead cam motors. and they have been since the early 90's, so american cars aren't so far behind as u think. and american car lovers say imports are really slow. and yes they are. but thats stock. they can be just as fast as any other v8. it just cost a little more.

[USmuscle5.0]

but ricers are gay. im not saying imports are(i would love a supra), im saying ricers are. and what is a ricer, a poeser. they make their cars look like such pieces of shit with the wings and stickers and crap like that. if your putting a bodykit on your car cuz u want it to be show quality, thats fine. but get it f**king painted before u going struting around on the street like some wannabe badass. and not all v8s are fast. like those white trash 80's cameros with cancer spots and a chopped of muffler. just cuz your car is loud doesnt make it fast.

[foto_choppa]

but ricers are gay. im not saying imports are(i would love a supra), im saying ricers are. and what is a ricer, a poeser. they make their cars look like such pieces of shit with the wings and stickers and crap like that. if your putting a bodykit on your car cuz u want it to be show quality, thats fine. but get it f**king painted before u going struting around on the street like some wannabe badass. and not all v8s are fast. like those white trash 80's cameros with cancer spots and a chopped of muffler. just cuz your car is loud doesnt make it fast.
i second every word there :D :p

[Falcon500]

funny thing i found out about ricers in import chat....the stupid ones who hate cars that dont come from the land of the rising sun hate cars with semmingly less technologyyet they still seem to hate fords more thenthey hate chevs...then i point out they have dohc mills and then they abruptly leave....then there are a handfull that dont qualify as ricers in my eyes...they respect american muscle cars for what they are and what they do...they just have prefrences...alot of them know a heap about american muscle cars too and many admit to haveing ones they really like...also alot of them agree with my less is more approach prefering to avoid body kits and tasteful mods....

[KnifeEdge_2K1]

but ricers are gay. im not saying imports are(i would love a supra), im saying ricers are. and what is a ricer, a poeser. they make their cars look like such pieces of shit with the wings and stickers and crap like that. if your putting a bodykit on your car cuz u want it to be show quality, thats fine. but get it f**king painted before u going struting around on the street like some wannabe badass. and not all v8s are fast. like those white trash 80's cameros with cancer spots and a chopped of muffler. just cuz your car is loud doesnt make it fast.

first off how does that make them gay? litterally gay means happy, the connotation would be homosexual but how could the car you drive possibly change or display your sexual preferance ? (a pink car ... fine)

ricers = posers? what are they posing as ??? they put wings and stickers on it? fine thats they're choice, who are you to judge them? are you some automotive genius? did you invent the wheel? face it you're a nobody, im a freakin nobody, chances are you yourself dont even have a car yet so why complain?

and about that paintint the body kit before putting it on ur car ... i agree with you all the way

[johnnynumfiv]

ricers = posers? what are they posing as ???

They are posing as race car drivers in thier race cars. Which those cars are totally not. Almost every ricer i see has oil smoke coming outthier exhausts because they hammer the engines to death. The ricers are people who know nothing about engines, suspension, and racing. They bolt on all this stuff, like a wing, If you don't upgrade your suspension, there is no point for one. You put on a turbo charger, you don't change your timing. You have 600 hp but burn more oil than gas, what do they do? buy a new engine, try checking the piston rings. If your car comes stock with 115 hp, the chassis isn't made to take hundreds of hp. So what I am trying to say, ricers are posers of people know stuff about cars, and of people who know how to properly modify them. :cool:

[DodgeNitroBIRM]

He's talking about the guy who says that he could beat a muscle car with his stock 4 cylinder engine. Not just the guy who puts on stickers on his car. I've met quite a few of those idiots, they are the ones who give a real import enthusiast a bad name. Unfortuently, the same could be said for the guys who drive around in the beat up, rusted muscle car that couldn't run even if you put a rocket on it, saying that his car would beat any import that came against him. Posers suck.

[Blue Supra]

Posers suck.

indeed, i hate seeing the "fully sick" excels and pulsars that are around my area... however its so funny that when i pull up next to them at the lights in my 78 datsun they feel that they have to show that they have more power than me... so you can beat an old datto... whoopdi f**kin doo! idiots... :p

[USmuscle5.0]

first off how does that make them gay? litterally gay means happy, the connotation would be homosexual but how could the car you drive possibly change or display your sexual preferance ? (a pink car ... fine)

ricers = posers? what are they posing as ??? they put wings and stickers on it? fine thats they're choice, who are you to judge them? are you some automotive genius? did you invent the wheel? face it you're a nobody, im a freakin nobody, chances are you yourself dont even have a car yet so why complain?

and about that paintint the body kit before putting it on ur car ... i agree with you all the way

well the "what are they posing as" thing has already been talked about. they are wannabe race car drivers. im just saying there is two types of import car crowds. real enthusiest, and ricers. the ricers are the stupid asses that put fart cans on a 84 accord and thinks its fast. ricers are the ones that say they gain 25 hp with a cold air intake. and i never said i was a genius of any sort or that i was a "somebody". your the only one saying that. and i do have a car. its a 88 lincoln mark VII. it doesnt sound like much but it comes with a 5.0 HO mill. but im glad that u agreed on the painting the body kit thing.

[KnifeEdge_2K1]

well the "what are they posing as" thing has already been talked about. they are wannabe race car drivers. im just saying there is two types of import car crowds. real enthusiest, and ricers. the ricers are the stupid asses that put fart cans on a 84 accord and thinks its fast. ricers are the ones that say they gain 25 hp with a cold air intake. and i never said i was a genius of any sort or that i was a "somebody". your the only one saying that. and i do have a car. its a 88 lincoln mark VII. it doesnt sound like much but it comes with a 5.0 HO mill. but im glad that u agreed on the painting the body kit thing.

uh oh ... i was under the impression cold air intakes DO add horsepower .. maybe not 25 but some ...
wannabe race car drivers ... i wanna be a race car driver ...
eek am i a ricer ? even though i dont have a car , lol

[johnnynumfiv]

you don't know when to quit do ya knife? stop arguing for the sake of arguing.

[Quiggs]

Most kits that people buy as "CAI's" aren't even really true cold air intakes... They're short-ram.

And most of the time, you can get better HP gains with a K&N drop in filter, and shaving the inside of your stock airbox with a Dremel. (most airboxes have plastic injection mold lines inside)

[KnifeEdge_2K1]

you don't know when to quit do ya knife? stop arguing for the sake of arguing.
wah? how am i arguing?

[USmuscle5.0]

thats cool that u wanna be a race car driver, but what i was saying is that theres these people out there that put crap all over their car like they have sponsers. but they dont race for anyone. thats all im saying. but u obviously just like to argue about stuff u dont even know about, thats cool i guess.

[KnifeEdge_2K1]

lol i really dont think im arguing for the sake of arguing, thats ur job
i'm just makin comments and u acting like u wanna pick a fight
is it just me or are u being a lil hypocritical here?

[Blue Supra]

lol i really dont think im arguing for the sake of arguing, thats ur job
i'm just makin comments and u acting like u wanna pick a fight
is it just me or are u being a lil hypocritical here?

no i dont think he is at all. all you seem to be doing on this thread is posting provoking statements and asking provoking questions, when they are reasonably answered you pick on the tiniest of things just for the sake of arguing, this thread was suitably answerd a long time ago but you continuously pick on peoples arguments and dont obviously dont research what you argue with because there are many other similar threads about the same kinds of topics as are being discussed here. maybe you should research what you argue about before you come out with another post. :mad:

[KnifeEdge_2K1]

dude u cant possible expect me to remember every post ive ever made, quote it or something, dont refer to something without giving a specific index

list some of my provoking statements, list some of my provocative questions, what is it i dont research? if u acuse me of being provocative arnt u guilty of the same thing ?

[gtface]

fine thats they're choice, who are you to judge them? are you some automotive genius? did you invent the wheel? face it you're a nobody, im a freakin nobody, chances are you yourself dont even have a car yet so why complain?


This is the worst damn argument i have ever heard, and I hear it all the time in a variety of topics. This "who are you to judge" crap is so hypocritical. Who is he to judge? Who are you to judge him for being judgemental? There is nothing wrong with judging people, as long as you have a good reason or logic to back it up. It is not good to judge people's character based on their race, gender, etc. (even though we have probably all done it at sometime or another). However, I don't see anything wrong with dissapproving of what people do to there cars to try to make themselves look like badasses and pick up chicks without really knowing anything about cars at all. To me these people are lazy and shallow and I don't think they deserve my sympathy or anyone else's for that matter.

[Falcon500]

lol i really dont think im arguing for the sake of arguing, thats ur job
i'm just makin comments and u acting like u wanna pick a fight
is it just me or are u being a lil hypocritical here?
No its just your your being a hypocrit there and ive talked to you about this before and you have admitted to arguering more for the sake of doing it then actually learning anything.....your beging to annoy me...time to call it quits sunshine...either actually come up with something constructive or enjoy a short breather......

[Blue Supra]

No its just your your being a hypocrit there and ive talked to you about this before and you have admitted to arguering more for the sake of doing it then actually learning anything.....your beging to annoy me...time to call it quits sunshine...either actually come up with something constructive or enjoy a short breather......

here here! indeed

as for some of the provocative statements...

-"i'm just makin comments and u acting like u wanna pick a fight"
(hmmm thats not provoking at all)
- "first off how does that make them gay? litterally gay means happy, the connotation would be homosexual but how could the car you drive possibly change or display your sexual preferance ? (a pink car ... fine)"
( thats arguing for the sake of arguing, surely you must have known what context he was talking about unless you live in uganda under a rock that hasnt moved for 50000000 years)
- "ricers = posers? what are they posing as ??? they put wings and stickers on it? fine thats they're choice, who are you to judge them? are you some automotive genius? did you invent the wheel? face it you're a nobody, im a freakin nobody, chances are you yourself dont even have a car yet so why complain?"
( this question has been answered in at least two other differnt threads, who cares if hes an automotive genius or not, and who the f**k cares if he has a car or not, what does it matter, people i know dont own a car but sure as hell know more than you or I do)
- "wannabe race car drivers ... i wanna be a race car driver ...
eek am i a ricer ? even though i dont have a car , lol"
( duh no, again already answered)

i agree falc500 mate, take a breather and come back when your ready to show some maturity. ;)

[KnifeEdge_2K1]

wow u actually took the time to type all that out ...

that is seriously seriously wierd

[Blue Supra]

its called copy and paste, i actually wanted to make a decent post for my 100th but instead im still in a tussle with you. o the joys of life... :rolleyes:

[KnifeEdge_2K1]

cant we just agree to disagree?

[USmuscle5.0]

and all u do knife is reply with questions. u never have any answers. whats up with that. look at all your posts, u havent answered any questions. u just question everyone elses opinion cuz u dont have one of your own. thats cool on some other thread but not on this one. on this one we give fact and opinions to prove are veiws. and all u do is try to piss people off with your lack of knowledge on the subject. and i bet you'll probabley reply to this with some smartass thing like "well i cant learn anything if i dont ask questions." but its okay, i understand. your just afraid someone might challenge your opinion if u put one up, so u just question everyone elses cuz u cant be wrong if u just ask questions.

[KnifeEdge_2K1]

and where would we be without questions. what if newton never asked "why did the apple fall" what if people didnt say "what if we put on an air compressor powered by the exhaust of the engine" what if we didnt ask "what if the earth revolved around the sun"

we'd still be apes instead of arguing over a meaningless conversation that ended a friggin week ago

[fiat850]

yo stop complain u guys :mad: and start takin about how crappy civics are :)

[fiat850]

yo i bet this car could beat a civic :) lol jk

[johnnynumfiv]

This discussion ended half a year ago, its known as a dead thread. Some people aren't to fond of people bringing back old threads.

[fiat850]

yea ................. click this

[johnnynumfiv]

??????????

[Quiggs]

http://bill.cs-servers.com/Index/Adam/Funny/lockd.gif

[maric]

Actually some of the best Motor electritions, come up from modifiying little civic's and fiesta's because they have modified it on there own, so then they know about it and make money from it...

[fiat850]

johnny see the discussion isnt old thread :)

[johnnynumfiv]

johnny see the discussion isnt old thread :)

english please?

[DrifterX]

I want to know what the fascination with civics is? What sense of logic is there in buying a 15,000-20,000 dollar civic, dropping upwards of 30-40k into it, and adding an expensive body kit to turn it into a sportscar? Personally, if i had that kind of money, i could do just as well, without nitrous, in a nice american sportscar. Even a german car! Give me a break, i dont see the logic in all that.
there isnt anything wrong with a civic and most of them dont cost $20,000 see I got one at $200 even thought it is an '89 hatch back. the fascination is that you can buy on for cheap, rip the stock motor out and throw either a B16A2(Civic SiR),B16B(Civic Type-R),B18C1(Integra GSR),B18C5(Integra Type-R),B20B(AWD CRV) motor in them and they will be pretty damn quick... see around here when ppl fix their cars they usually dont go for looks first, you go tune the motor, then work your way outside. DUH! when i got my hatch the first thing i did is put a B16B(Type-R) that was quick enough to beat 99 model mustangs except saleens.but now saleens, cobra, SS comaros cant beat me. while your sitting there talking shit about civic's Saturday night my boy in a 470HP hatch back EG style beat everyone but a 2,000HP Cuda. so you can lay off hatches, see b/c we dont drive our dads cars we have our own... you cant talk shyt unless you have your own car worth racing. oh and yes civic's they are sport cars.
(for the people that know me i still have my HatchiRoku)
Mods to my hatch:B16B, HKS Hi Flow catback exaust,HKS ball bearing turbo, HKS front mount intercooler, HKS Pistons, HKS boost oil and water temp gauges, Blitz side mount oil cooler, Mugen Header, Mugen downpipe, Mugen Cam cover, Skunk2 testpipe, Crower racing stroker kit, ACT Drag Mugen MF10 wheels, Yokohama Advan A048 tires, Spoon 4pot calipers, all wheel Type-R disk brakes, JDM Integra front conversion, Mugen front bumper, Mugen Carbon Fiber hood, JDM Integra Type R interior. too much to list.

[Quiggs]

oh and yes civic's they are sport cars.

Negative, Ghost Rider.


Mods to my hatch:B16B, HKS Hi Flow catback exaust,HKS ball bearing turbo, HKS front mount intercooler, HKS Pistons, HKS boost oil and water temp gauges, Blitz side mount oil cooler, Mugen Header, Mugen downpipe, Mugen Cam cover, Skunk2 testpipe, Crower racing stroker kit, ACT Drag Mugen MF10 wheels, Yokohama Advan A048 tires, Spoon 4pot calipers, all wheel Type-R disk brakes, JDM Integra front conversion, Mugen front bumper, Mugen Carbon Fiber hood, JDM Integra Type R interior. too much to list.
So you threw $15,000 at an economy car. Guess what. It's still an economy car.

[KnifeEdge_2K1]

So you threw $15,000 at an economy car. Guess what. It's still an economy car.
not any more

[KnifeEdge_2K1]

still pretty stupid to spend that much money on a civic tho, like its a fast car on its own but for that much money u can buy a way faster car, and roomier, more comfy, less compromising, ect.

[johnnynumfiv]

Drifter X, what kind of chassis mods have you done to take the extra hp?

[crisis]

there isnt anything wrong with a civic and most of them dont cost $20,000 see I got one at $200 even thought it is an '89 hatch back. the fascination is that you can buy on for cheap, rip the stock motor out and throw either a B16A2(Civic SiR),B16B(Civic Type-R),B18C1(Integra GSR),B18C5(Integra Type-R),B20B(AWD CRV) motor in them and they will be pretty damn quick... see around here when ppl fix their cars they usually dont go for looks first, you go tune the motor, then work your way outside. DUH! .
Yeah well the majority of Civics "round here" are toys. They have some cult status, probably cause people see them in tuning mags and they can be bought cheap. The biggest mods they get are oversized wheels and the mandatory fart can. And it generally helps to modify brakes and suspension in line with the motor.


when i got my hatch the first thing i did is put a B16B(Type-R).
I presume thats a motor, we arent all fan boys.


that was quick enough to beat 99 model mustangs except saleens.but now saleens, cobra, SS comaros cant beat me.
What stock ones, go figure. Put a hot motor in a cheap small car and it "beats" (whatever that means) larger unmodified cars. Where and what are these contests you have won?


while your sitting there talking shit about civic's Saturday night my boy in a 470HP hatch back EG style beat everyone but a 2,000HP Cuda. so you can lay off hatches, see b/c we dont drive our dads cars we have our own... you cant talk shyt unless you have your own car worth racing..
Waht are these races you speak of? Street drags per chance?


oh and yes civic's they are sport cars.

Oh no, they are modified girls cars.


(for the people that know me i still have my HatchiRoku)
Fanboy speak.


Mods to my hatch:B16B, HKS Hi Flow catback exaust,HKS ball bearing turbo, HKS front mount intercooler, HKS Pistons, HKS boost oil and water temp gauges, Blitz side mount oil cooler, Mugen Header, Mugen downpipe, Mugen Cam cover, Skunk2 testpipe, Crower racing stroker kit, ACT Drag Mugen MF10 wheels, Yokohama Advan A048 tires, Spoon 4pot calipers, all wheel Type-R disk brakes, JDM Integra front conversion, Mugen front bumper, Mugen Carbon Fiber hood, JDM Integra Type R interior. too much to list.
Boy you sure do know all the good words. Read plenty of mags then?

[johnnynumfiv]

Originally Posted by DrifterX

oh and yes civic's they are sport cars.


Crisis:
Oh no, they are modified girls cars.


I agree crisis, I don't think Honda's goal was to make a sports car when civics were made, thier goal was to make an econo-box commuter car. I don't understand why kids view them as sports cars.