domestic vs import

[Chinky_boi]

over the years i heard about how american cars consume more gas, less reliable and ugly . well to tell you the truth i did some researching and i found out this

yes american cars consume more gas but what are most people comparing. most people compare v8 engines to i4. 300hp to 150hp. as you can see over the years american cars have been trying to make cars more economy. if you compared a 150 hp import to a 150hp domestic you will find that a import will consume 1 gallon less per a mile. thats not really a big difference. yes american cars are heavy but, american cars have been trying to make there cars lighter as you compare a ford focus to a honda civic. the ford focus is 50lb lighter. compare the new ford freestar to a honda oddessy. the freestar consumes 16 gallons on highway and the oddessy consumes 18 gallons on highway.

yes american cars are not that reliable but look the mitsubishi eclipse is known of having the most problems. more then americans and europeans. ive witnessed myself when i was younger on the streets and import was driving and this american car was turning and they both collided and the american car wasnt even dented while the import. the whole front was all destroyed.

this thing has been keeping me kinda pissed for years of people being racist are making fun of american and european cars. ya japanese cars got the looks but does it have the power??

most ricers say they can beat a v8 muscle car. but it takes alot of modding to do so. with all that modding why not just buy a muscle car in the first place thing tuning up your car for more the price. ive beard of ricers saying they put a some body kits and say they can beat a F1 car. i mean F1 cars are 2000lb and lighter and have a 0-60mph in 2.2 secs. it takes over couple dozen grands to meet with that. sometimes it takes over 1million dollars of tuning to beat that.

if you think im wrong then please comment

[Matra et Alpine]

ive witnessed myself when i was younger on the streets and import was driving and this american car was turning and they both collided and the american car wasnt even dented while the import. the whole front was all destroyed.
Outside of America, the car industry has ofuccsed on absorbing impact through planned deformation of the bodywork and chassis.

America cars had approached the safety angle like a tank designer. More steel is stronger and better.

The planned absorption of energy is better and safer for everyoine involved !

European cars now have star-ratings for crashes.
I remember when the Espace was (I think) a 4 and a Ford Aero/Windstar managed 1 !
Most new Euroepan manufactured cars are now aiming for 5 - the maximum.
This is safer for us all as it focusses on survivability of the passengers, not of the vehicle.
( There is another argument that they are NOW designing to pass the test rathe than be safer - don't know how true that is )


So you arel guaranteed to see European and Japanese cars which end up destroyed front and/or back. BUT, limited intrusion into the "passenger safety cell".


most ricers say they can beat a v8 muscle car. but it takes alot of modding to do so. with all that modding why not just buy a muscle car in the first place thing tuning up your car for more the price. ive beard of ricers saying they put a some body kits and say they can beat a F1 car. i mean F1 cars are 2000lb and lighter and have a 0-60mph in 2.2 secs. it takes over couple dozen grands to meet with that. sometimes it takes over 1million dollars of tuning to beat that.

if you think im wrong then please comment

Well on 'ricers', a lot of them talk b***sh*t :)

However, you should remember that a classic muscle car has more weight in the engine ithan in the whole car of the best and fastest sportscars ! ( another over-exageration :) )
Weight is king in overal performance. In straight line that weight CAN be overcome with MORE power - an easy commodity for a V8 tuner - but cannot be overcome in cornering, braking and 'chuckability'.

So no car or format is 'king'.
Some are better for acceleration and some people like that.
Some make greata noise and some people like THAT.
Some handle the best and ....
etc
etc

Takes all kinds.

[Chinky_boi]

Outside of America, the car industry has ofuccsed on absorbing impact through planned deformation of the bodywork and chassis.

America cars had approached the safety angle like a tank designer. More steel is stronger and better.

The planned absorption of energy is better and safer for everyoine involved !

European cars now have star-ratings for crashes.
I remember when the Espace was (I think) a 4 and a Ford Aero/Windstar managed 1 !
Most new Euroepan manufactured cars are now aiming for 5 - the maximum.
This is safer for us all as it focusses on survivability of the passengers, not of the vehicle.
( There is another argument that they are NOW designing to pass the test rathe than be safer - don't know how true that is )


So you arel guaranteed to see European and Japanese cars which end up destroyed front and/or back. BUT, limited intrusion into the "passenger safety cell".



Well on 'ricers', a lot of them talk b***sh*t :)

However, you should remember that a classic muscle car has more weight in the engine ithan in the whole car of the best and fastest sportscars ! ( another over-exageration :) )
Weight is king in overal performance. In straight line that weight CAN be overcome with MORE power - an easy commodity for a V8 tuner - but cannot be overcome in cornering, braking and 'chuckability'.

So no car or format is 'king'.
Some are better for acceleration and some people like that.
Some make greata noise and some people like THAT.
Some handle the best and ....
etc
etc

Takes all kinds.


i like the way you think lol

[Niko_Fx]

this thing has been keeping me kinda pissed for years of people being racist are making fun of american and european cars. ya japanese cars got the looks but does it have the power??




Some of them sure don't have the power to be compared to muscle cars.

About japanese cars' owners making fun of American and European cars I think you are wrong. The other day I was reading a post from some guy in another cars web page forum and he said something like "yeah you know what dude, a viper is way better than supras ok, SUPRAS SUX ok, a viper is faster ok and beat the !@#$ out of the supra" then he said "besides, driving a Honda is like special olympics, even if you win you still retarded"

I asked myself "What does Honda has to do with a Supra and a Viper??" I really don't know...

And well, he is right a Viper is faster, but again you gotta remember that it is a 500hp 8.3 10 cylinder against a 320 hp 3.0 6 cylinder.

I own a Honda Civic, and I have a great respect for American and European cars, and I know they are a lot faster than my car.

Since I joined this forum I have seen sooooooooooo maaaaany times posts against Honda Civics. Civics are slow, I know, but I don't own one to run, I own one because it is affordable and a good car. Even a forum member photoshopped a Saab or a Peugeot (don't remember exactly) and put "Honda Sux" as if it was a sticker or something on a side of the car.

So well, that's my opinion, I know I changed the subject a little bit, but hope you get my point.

[Chinky_boi]

Some of them sure don't have the power to be compared to muscle cars.

About japanese cars' owners making fun of American and European cars I think you are wrong. The other day I was reading a post from some guy in another cars web page forum and he said something like "yeah you know what dude, a viper is way better than supras ok, SUPRAS SUX ok, a viper is faster ok and beat the !@#$ out of the supra" then he said "besides, driving a Honda is like special olympics, even if you win you still retarded"

I asked myself "What does Honda has to do with a Supra and a Viper??" I really don't know...

And well, he is right a Viper is faster, but again you gotta remember that it is a 500hp 8.3 10 cylinder against a 320 hp 3.0 6 cylinder.

I own a Honda Civic, and I have a great respect for American and European cars, and I know they are a lot faster than my car.

Since I joined this forum I have seen sooooooooooo maaaaany times posts against Honda Civics. Civics are slow, I know, but I don't own one to run, I own one because it is affordable and a good car. Even a forum member photoshopped a Saab or a Peugeot (don't remember exactly) and put "Honda Sux" as if it was a sticker or something on a side of the car.

So well, that's my opinion, I know I changed the subject a little bit, but hope you get my point.


im not talking about civics being a bad car. im talking about how people make fun of americans or europeans and some japanese cars by saying bad stuff about it without saying positive comments. civics are good economy cars

[Niko_Fx]

im not talking about civics being a bad car. im talking about how people make fun of americans or europeans and some japanese cars by saying bad stuff about it without saying positive comments. civics are good economy cars

I know you never said anything bad about Civics and I appreciate it. But I said what I said because that's what I feel... Doesn't matter if it is on this forum or another forum, I always feel that environment against Hondas and it really pisses me off, cause not all Honda owners are ricers nor Hondas really suck.

Even if a Ricer owns a Honda Civic with a bunch of stickers and body kit and whatever and drives like he's the king of the streets and listens to his rap and looks at everybody like he's a gangsta.... the car still doesn't suck...... sucks for racing but not the car itself and that's a big difference and people relates everything like:

Ricers = Suck
Ricers = Honda
Then
Honda = Sucks

And that's not true.

[Niko_Fx]

Check out this post:

http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2318

.

[NAZCA C2]

I read the other day in the USA Today that US cars have surpassed european cars in reliability but that the japanese cars are still the most reliable.

[Matra et Alpine]

I read the other day in the USA Today that US cars have surpassed european cars in reliability but that the japanese cars are still the most reliable.
Ah, USA Today that prime example of unbiased and researched reporting - NOT !!!

[Matra et Alpine]

I own a Honda Civic, and I have a great respect for American and European cars, and I know they are a lot faster than my car.

Since I joined this forum I have seen sooooooooooo maaaaany times posts against Honda Civics. Civics are slow, I know, but I don't own one to run, I own one because it is affordable and a good car.
There are diffierences we've coverd already in other posts, you don't get to see the best Civics in the USA :)
I can assure you they can hold their own.
The guy pictured below was lapping at times that a LOT of sportcar owners couldnt' beat on the day !!!!

[STiBabe]

I read a book a loooooong time ago called "Stetson" and this Senior had this old Civic that he fixed up. Anyways, have no idea how that relates other than it being a Civic...

As for the whole making fun of them... you shouldn't really care that much because they are going to have cars that suck some major @$$ too...

[Niko_Fx]

There are diffierences we've coverd already in other posts, you don't get to see the best Civics in the USA :)
I can assure you they can hold their own.
The guy pictured below was lapping at times that a LOT of sportcar owners couldnt' beat on the day !!!!

Thanks Matra :)

[Misho]

Hey Niko, i dont see why you claim many people hate Hondas ?? and what puzzles me even more is how can a sane human being not LOVE Hondas ??! they are amongst the best car makers in the world.
excllent relaibity, engines, looks, handling . . . i think that Honda is THE best car maker in Asia.

[Falcon500]

Hey Niko, i dont see why you claim many people hate Hondas ?? and what puzzles me even more is how can a sane human being not LOVE Hondas ??! they are amongst the best car makers in the world.
excllent relaibity, engines, looks, handling . . . i think that Honda is THE best car maker in Asia.
I dont hate hondas but i dont like them what i dislike more are ricers attitudes to their car eg honda prelude own you...get a life...
I will amit they make some of the greatest ecconmy cars on the market and make some fine performance cars...though i dont really like theNSX price,age and looks.
And misho my friend looks is a very debatle issue i personally find hondas as apeealing as a leyland p76 in the looks department...thats just me though.

[Chinky_boi]

i dont get the point. why do people argue about who hates what and who has the best. cars were meant for transportation and not about what is faster or slower. cars were meant for taking something to point a to b. its no use having a fast car even though you can only drive 35mph or 50kmh at most times. most ricers think that way. they always think one car is always faster then another like they think there car can beat every car. ya some cars are faster then another but whats the point. you will never test out all those cars to see whose faster

[Slicks]

i dont get the point. why do people argue about who hates what and who has the best. cars were meant for transportation and not about what is faster or slower. cars were meant for taking something to point a to b. its no use having a fast car even though you can only drive 35mph or 50kmh at most times. most ricers think that way. they always think one car is always faster then another like they think there car can beat every car. ya some cars are faster then another but whats the point. you will never test out all those cars to see whose faster

Vey true, but car companies make cars to make money. They have to produce what the consumers want to make a profit. So if the consumers want a fast car, then they try and make fast cars. If the consumers want an economy car, bla bla bla. Obveously there are people who like perfomance cars, otherwise they would not sell and then would not exsit. Most people do not like Honda for the same reason, the ricer fan boys. The ones who think hp/l matters and think that hondas are the best in the world. I personally like Honda, but not for perfomance cars. They make good family cars, but lack in the perfomance division in the US. The NSX is very overpriced and over rated in the US and for the price of the S2k you could get a better perfomance car.

[IBrake4Rainbows]

Hmmmm. Cars as transportation??? methinks your on the wrong website.

I don't hate Hondas, We Used to own an accord, but in all seriousness i could never have loved the car. Japanese cars, in my mind, do there job and do in uncomplainingly, just like japanese people. thus american tastes are extolled on there cars, and aussie tastes on their, british on theirs.....

Cars are the ultimate expression of freedom and individuality, some would look at a "Riced" Toyota and snigger, while others think how brave that dude is for putting his creation out there, i don't mean to be poetic, but their kind of like abstact paintings, while modding cars like BMW's and such could be seen as formal portraits, and modding stuff like Ferraris could be considered sculpture.

Be Happy they exist, they are the Yang to your american Yin.

[Chinky_boi]

well heres how people hate cars when its not really true


american=heavy, consume alot of gas
japanese= ricers, bad performance
european= expensive, cost alot of to fix

whats really true

american=there not that heavy comapred to a japanese cars there about the same and the consuming thing i explained in the first post

japanese= yes ricers make imports look bad but they do it for fun but when they do it to much it will look bad and no honda isnt bad in performance. i think hondas have good performances compared to alot of cars

europeans= yes they cost alot but its worth it driving a luxary car. and no its not expensive to fix these days. yes it cost more then japanese and american but not by much

[mooseTSi]

well heres how people hate cars when its not really true


american=heavy, consume alot of gas
japanese= ricers, bad performance
european= expensive, cost alot of to fix

whats really true

american=there not that heavy comapred to a japanese cars there about the same and the consuming thing i explained in the first post

japanese= yes ricers make imports look bad but they do it for fun but when they do it to much it will look bad and no honda isnt bad in performance. i think hondas have good performances compared to alot of cars

europeans= yes they cost alot but its worth it driving a luxary car. and no its not expensive to fix these days. yes it cost more then japanese and american but not by much


"ricer" is now more of an attitude/styling concept now then it is refering to asian cars. my god i see just about as many "riced out" american cars. ie sunfires, mustangs, grand prix, cavilers etc, as i see civis,eclipse, etc. all car companies have there goods and there bads. you cant really compare american to european to japanese. they all have differet types of styling, engine configuration, crash ratings etc. you have to just ignore all the asses that put a big wing and a fart can on ANY type of car and say they run a 1/4 in 9sec. thoes people are not car enthusists. I dont mind bodykits, if they are done right and look good, and if the person doesnt claim it adds 30hp to there car.lol

[Falcon500]

european= expensive, cost alot of to fix

europeans= yes they cost alot but its worth it driving a luxary car. and no its not expensive to fix these days. yes it cost more then japanese and american but not by much
Mladdo have you ever worked with euro cars? i have they are damed expensive cars to fix and most of the people who buy them treat them like shit!not all of them are luxurious and most of them are fenominally boring to drive its not funny.
Well riceing in some cicles is called street styleing...wehad a mate say that and another mate answerd so thats what you call riceing nowdays....apprently thereis a diffrent but in my eyes its SSDD.
And Moose they are enthusiests for their cars and as my mum says if it makes them happy let them make their cars look like shopping trollys (refering to the fact their more of something your mother should be driveing in most peoples opions and they put the big alloy wings on the back like a shopping torlley handel)

[Slicks]

Hmmmm. Cars as transportation??? methinks your on the wrong website.

Cars are the ultimate expression of freedom and individuality, some would look at a "Riced" Toyota and snigger, while others think how brave that dude is for putting his creation out there, i don't mean to be poetic, but their kind of like abstact paintings, while modding cars like BMW's and such could be seen as formal portraits, and modding stuff like Ferraris could be considered sculpture.

Be Happy they exist, they are the Yang to your american Yin.

If you were a girl, id be in love....

[Misho]

And misho my friend looks is a very debatle issue i personally find hondas as apeealing as a leyland p76 in the looks department...thats just me though.

and i'm totally OK with that !! i know that looks is probably the most subjective issue of cars. i was just stating my opinion in that i find most of Honda's lineup are viually nice on the outside and the inside.

[thinker]

haha chinky boi is rite...

[IBrake4Rainbows]

Slicks, don't take it too far, i am a guy, and a KID at that, we don't want you attracting the Micheal Jackson stigma!!!

[cls12vg30]

I used to own a Honda (88 Accord DX hatch, last of the carbeurated Hondas). It was slow as a pig but reliable except for ball and CV joints, and got good mileage. I'm a huge fan of Japanese cars, I don't buy anything but. They're not all boring, though the Accords and Camrys that so many are buying are painfully boring.
I don't hate Hondas, but I'm not very hot on them either. Not the new ones anyway, but I would take a 92-96 Prelude. My biggest problem with Honda nowadays is their engine philosophy: "Who cares about torque? Just give it a ridiculous redline and we can advertise 200 hp!" Even the S2000 feels like a golf cart below 3500 rpm. My preference is not to have to wind the crap out of the engine to get it to go.

[crisis]

this thing has been keeping me kinda pissed for years of people being racist are making fun of american and european cars. ya japanese cars got the looks but does it have the power??
Using the term racist here is a bit rich. Most people will generally lean towards the type of cars theri domestic manufacturers build. That is because domestic manufacturers build cars for their own markets. Kind of makes sense huh? No country has a monpoly on luxury , speed, performance, design or anything else . Some are better on average in some area but you can find something you would like from just about any country except France. (just kidding Henk and Matra!)


most ricers say they can beat a v8 muscle car. but it takes alot of modding to do so. with all that modding why not just buy a muscle car in the first place thing tuning up your car for more the price. ive beard of ricers saying they put a some body kits and say they can beat a F1 car. i mean F1 cars are 2000lb and lighter and have a 0-60mph in 2.2 secs. it takes over couple dozen grands to meet with that. sometimes it takes over 1million dollars of tuning to beat that.
You dont have to go far to find someone who will make an outrageous or plain idiotic claim about theri favorite car. Unfortunately you dont actually have to leave this web site. A true V8 muscle car to me conjures the image of a GTO or 70s Plymouth type of thing. These are powerful but of questionable handling and build quality. Thats ok really in as much as they are built for other reasons and to a price. To make a Plymouth Roadrunner fast, well built and luxurios, together with true sports car handling is beyond the design and cost capabilities of the manufacturer.

When Japanese cars first made their way to Australia they were of questionable quality, performance, styling and just about everything else. The Japanese industry has actually responded, improved and grown more dynamically than any other nations given their time in the business.

[crisis]

Hey Niko, i dont see why you claim many people hate Hondas ?? and what puzzles me even more is how can a sane human being not LOVE Hondas ??! they are amongst the best car makers in the world.
excllent relaibity, engines, looks, handling . . . i think that Honda is THE best car maker in Asia.
The words of this years potential nobel prize winner courtesy of the Misho theory. Honda do have a good reputation for quality and engineering but I believe theye are also quite expensive to repair. I would also like them to toy with the rather esoteric idea of rear wheel drive.

[crisis]

Outside of America, the car industry has ofuccsed on absorbing impact through planned deformation of the bodywork and chassis.

America cars had approached the safety angle like a tank designer. More steel is stronger and better.

The planned absorption of energy is better and safer for everyoine involved !

European cars now have star-ratings for crashes.
I remember when the Espace was (I think) a 4 and a Ford Aero/Windstar managed 1 !
Most new Euroepan manufactured cars are now aiming for 5 - the maximum.
This is safer for us all as it focusses on survivability of the passengers, not of the vehicle.
( There is another argument that they are NOW designing to pass the test rathe than be safer - don't know how true that is )


So you arel guaranteed to see European and Japanese cars which end up destroyed front and/or back. BUT, limited intrusion into the "passenger safety cell".



Well on 'ricers', a lot of them talk b***sh*t :)

However, you should remember that a classic muscle car has more weight in the engine ithan in the whole car of the best and fastest sportscars ! ( another over-exageration :) )
Weight is king in overal performance. In straight line that weight CAN be overcome with MORE power - an easy commodity for a V8 tuner - but cannot be overcome in cornering, braking and 'chuckability'.

So no car or format is 'king'.
Some are better for acceleration and some people like that.
Some make greata noise and some people like THAT.
Some handle the best and ....
etc
etc

Takes all kinds.
As usual superb. Saved me commenting on crumple zones et al and abusing ricers. Again you go point free courtesy of the rep point nazi.

[Misho]

The words of this years potential nobel prize winner courtesy of the Misho theory. Honda do have a good reputation for quality and engineering but I believe theye are also quite expensive to repair. I would also like them to toy with the rather esoteric idea of rear wheel drive.

thanks for pointing it out, i didnt even know i was nominated !! :)

as for Hondas being expensive to repair, i guess that again is dependant on where on the map you are. they might be relatively expensive to repair in australia, but i dont think the same could be said for canada where they could be considered average in terms of repair costs. moving on to a third location, the Middle East, i think it is kind of safe to say that they are cheaper than most other makes for repairs. then again, it is never SAFE to say anything here !!

[Matra et Alpine]

...Just give it a ridiculous redline and we can advertise 200 hp!" Even the S2000 feels like a golf cart below 3500 rpm. My preference is not to have to wind the crap out of the engine to get it to go.
I've said this one often, it's a cultural thing.
Americans are used to V8s and the idea of an engine revving is alien.

We're used to fast-revving light engines over here and some enjoy the sound of an engine doing 10000 revs. Yep the usable power may start at 4K but it goes to 10K, as discussed elsewhere - not a huge difference from a V8 starting at 2K and going to 8K :)
I ride bikes to and don't have a problem using 12K on the right roads/track :)
I've heard a Honda race engine rev to 20,000 revs :) ( and it reportedly was 24,000 when it was original )

[Falcon500]

Well i will admit the S2000 is a nice looking bit of gear...but like the mx-5 not exactly apealing a little too small for my likeing....

[fpv_gtho]

both the S2000 and the MX-5 i believe are built to excel through the twisty bits more than anything. i wouldnt mind one of the Turbo MX-5's that Tickford done a couple of years back though

[Doza]

American Cars are pathetic. They all fall short of the SKYLINE GTR34 which is THE GOD of CARS.

Except not.
----

As previously said, cars are made for a market. In most of Europe, due to harsh gas prices, cars(except for the excessively rich), need to get good gas mileage, and therefore, they almost always have a light body which corellates good handling.

American cars haven't needed the stringent economy ratings up until the current, and around the time of muscle cars, they answer to more safety was usually to cram more steel in it somewhere. And it worked, at the cost of handling and economy.

But, of course, there are exceptions to the rule. The Subaru WRX STI's Turbo 4 gets worse economy than the Corvette Z06's 5.7 Liter V8. And, the Corvette Weighs more. This isn't a fair comparison though. It's not as bad as a McLaren Vs Civic comparo, but they aren't even in the same class. One car is nearly the best performance made in America, while the other is a performance sedan, although, a very good one at that.
----
There is a certain BLING that accompanies a Benz or a Bimmer. There is a BLINGITY BLING that accompanies an Escalade or H2 riding on twenty-fo spinna dubs. There's a PIMP that accompanies an old Cadillac. There's a feeling of 31337ness from driving a tricked out Subaru. Even though I didn't hit every market, every market has something to offer. Except maybe Yugo.

[crisis]

American Cars are pathetic. They all fall short of the SKYLINE GTR34 which is THE GOD of CARS.

Except not.
----

As previously said, cars are made for a market. In most of Europe, due to harsh gas prices, cars(except for the excessively rich), need to get good gas mileage, and therefore, they almost always have a light body which corellates good handling.

American cars haven't needed the stringent economy ratings up until the current, and around the time of muscle cars, they answer to more safety was usually to cram more steel in it somewhere. And it worked, at the cost of handling and economy.

But, of course, there are exceptions to the rule. The Subaru WRX STI's Turbo 4 gets worse economy than the Corvette Z06's 5.7 Liter V8. And, the Corvette Weighs more. This isn't a fair comparison though. It's not as bad as a McLaren Vs Civic comparo, but they aren't even in the same class. One car is nearly the best performance made in America, while the other is a performance sedan, although, a very good one at that.
----
There is a certain BLING that accompanies a Benz or a Bimmer. There is a BLINGITY BLING that accompanies an Escalade or H2 riding on twenty-fo spinna dubs. There's a PIMP that accompanies an old Cadillac. There's a feeling of 31337ness from driving a tricked out Subaru. Even though I didn't hit every market, every market has something to offer. Except maybe Yugo.
Some one give this man a rep point. the rep point nazi wont let me.

[Misho]

Some one give this man a rep point. the rep point nazi wont let me.

i got u covered on that one !!

[megotmea7]

I've said this one often, it's a cultural thing.
Americans are used to V8s and the idea of an engine revving is alien.

We're used to fast-revving light engines over here and some enjoy the sound of an engine doing 10000 revs.
i resent that remark! :eek: ;)

[Doza]

Except maybe Yugo.
I have done some research, and I have found out that the value of a Yugo can be doubled if you fill the gas tank.