Ford US announces massive plan regarding Ford Australia

[fpv_gtho]

Courtesy of Ford Australia Forums (http://www.fordaustraliaforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=17570)


Ford Australia Announces Major New Projects

Ford Australia has announced a new strategic direction for the company, including significant investment in new projects and accompanying facilities, totalling more than AUD1.8 billion over the next decade. The company's Product Development team will take an enhanced role as an engineering and design 'centre of excellence' for the Asia Pacific and Africa region.
One of the first projects to be undertaken by a significantly expanded team will include the design and engineering leadership of a new global light commercial vehicle architecture that will eventually be used for product in more than 80 countries worldwide. In addition, the Australian centre of excellence will develop future Falcon and Territory programs for Australia and export markets.
Ford Australia has worked cooperatively with both the Federal Government and the Victorian State Government to ensure the successful outcome of these major investment opportunities.
"As we work to build Ford Motor Company's global competitiveness, it is critical that we continue to invest and grow our capabilities in the Asia Pacific region," said Mr Bill Ford, Ford Motor Company Chairman and CEO.
"The engineering experience and capability we have in Australia is a strategic advantage for Ford and it is important that we use this great resource not just to benefit Australian customers, but to benefit customers in markets around the world.
"The skills and technologies available in the Australian marketplace are some of the best in our global organisation.
"I am glad to see our strategic vision for Ford Australia is shared by the Federal Government and the Victorian State Government. We are very pleased to have worked closely with them to ensure the viability and future success of these major opportunities," said Mr Ford.
"For over 80 years, Ford has taken a leadership role in automotive design, engineering and manufacturing in Australia," said Ford Australia President, Mr Tom Gorman.
"We have been very successful locally with the Falcon range of vehicles, which have been a mainstay of Australian motoring for more than 45 years. More recently, with the launch of Australia's top selling sports utility vehicle, the Ford Territory, we have solidified our position as one of Australia's leading car companies.
"Our local success is now allowing us to capitalise on our strategic location within the increasingly important Asia Pacific region.
"Our new globally-oriented strategic direction will allow us to build upon the capabilities and intellectual excellence we have here in Australia. The Ford Australia team will deliver an exciting new engineering and design program for numerous markets around the world, while also investigating further future export opportunities for both Territory and Falcon."
Global light commercial vehicle architecture
Ford Australia will have lead design and engineering responsibility for a new vehicle architecture that is targeted to underpin a range of light commercial vehicles in more than 80 countries worldwide.
Engineered for both right- and left-hand drive and manufactured in multiple locations, the first derivative is most likely to be a pick-up truck, although the architecture has the capability for a variety of multiple configurations and body styles.
"We are at the very beginning of this exciting new project. Significant engineering and design work over a number of years is still required before formal program approval will be granted by Ford. It is anticipated that once this occurs, the architecture derivatives are expected to result in more than 400,000 sales annually," said Ford Australia Vice President of Product Development, Mr Trevor Worthington.
The design and engineering program is expected to generate in excess of AUD700 million in research and development revenues for Ford Australia during the course of the project.
The new light commercial vehicle project will provide Ford Australia's design and engineering teams with the opportunity to extend their technical knowledge and capabilities, and also represents an expansion of Ford Motor Company's global shared technologies strategy.
"Our success with Falcon, Territory and all their derivatives, has shown that Ford Australia can develop world-class car-based vehicles," said Mr Worthington.
"This new project will afford us with the opportunity to broaden that knowledge base and further increase our importance to the rest of Ford's product development community globally.
"Specifically, engineering for left-hand drive will ensure we have the capabilities necessary to develop possible opportunities for our local products in the future," said Mr Worthington.
Falcon and Territory
An all-new Falcon model and future Territory models will form the basis of potential export opportunities for Ford Australia's globally competitive large rear-wheel drive vehicle platform.
"Our current Falcon model has enjoyed modest export success to New Zealand, while the flexibility inherent in Territory has expanded the company's export reach to South Africa and Thailand," said Ford Australia President, Mr Tom Gorman.
"While we have no concrete export plans to announce at this time, our new strategic direction as a company will involve us actively targeting additional opportunities for our outstanding domestically manufactured vehicles.
"The addition of left-hand drive engineering capability to our product development team will provide significant experience and assist us to develop a viable export program for our world class rear-wheel drive architecture.
"We have agreed with our Government partners, at both the Federal and State level, to aggressively pursue all potential exports for our technologies and skills. We look forward to making progress on this issue in the years to come."
Product Development
Ford Australia's Product Development team will take on an enhanced role within the company's global product development community as a design and engineering centre of excellence for the Asia Pacific region.
"The Asia-Pacific region is vitally important to the car industry globally," said Ford Motor Company Vice President and President of Asia Pacific and Africa, Mr Peter Daniel.
"The design and engineering capability built up by Ford Australia's product development team with the success of recent projects such as both the BA and BF Falcon, the Territory and, most recently, the design and engineering of a new Fiesta specifically for the Indian market, has ensured the team is best placed to lead major new projects in this region.
"This regional capability is critical as Asian economies mature and consumers continue to demand outstanding motor vehicles tailored to their specific requirements."
Importantly, Ford Australia's product development team will take the lead on developing new processes and methods for Ford's global product development community.
"Increasing the stature of our PD team goes further than just the additional projects we plan to undertake," said Ford Australia Vice President of Product Development, Mr Trevor Worthington.
"As a recognised key partner in Ford's product development world, it will be incumbent on us to develop new best practises and methods of operating that will improve quality and reduce the time to market.
"Our design and engineering lead role for a new global light commercial vehicle architecture will require us to share these best practises with our partners around the world and help drive their implementation."
Significant investment in world class facilities to deliver state-of-the-art vehicle dynamics, safety and refinement will take place at Ford Australia's operations in Broadmeadows, Geelong and the You Yangs to ensure the company can take advantage of strategic global opportunities.
Additionally, the company will also expand its core design and engineering staff.
Investing in the future
The projects announced by Ford Australia today, along with the company's new strategic focus, will ensure the success of Ford in Australia for the foreseeable future.
"Our business is changing," said Mr Gorman.
"We have been very successful with our business model over the past 80 years. Now is the time to take our company to the next level and grow our business even further. Today's initiatives and investment plans are the first step in a new strategic direction for our company.
"Although some of these plans are longer term in nature, the recognition shown to our product development team and the broader Ford Australia business through projects such as the light commercial vehicle architecture and the state-of-the-art rear wheel drive platform, proves that we are on the right track and that our direction is the right one for the future of our company."

[fpv_gtho]

Also here: http://media.ford.com/newsroom/release_display.cfm?release=23353


Ford Australia history
Ford cars have been sold in Australia since 1904. Growing demand for Ford vehicles led to the establishment of the Ford Motor Company of Australia on March 31, 1925.
Ford began production of the Falcon in 1960 – a vehicle that now holds the mantle of Australia's longest running nameplate. Seven generations of the Falcon have been produced and it is joined by Territory as the only two Australian vehicles that are wholly designed, developed and built locally.
Headquarters are located in Broadmeadows, on the northern outskirts of Melbourne, along with an assembly plant, research centre, engineering & technology centre, training centre and Ford Customer Service Division.
The company's proving ground is located in the You Yangs outside Geelong and casting, stamping and engine plants are all located in Geelong. A significant portion of the company's product development team is also based at Geelong.
Ford has 230 dealers located around Australia and also operates regional offices in each major capital city.

273 jobs will also be created with the expansion of Fords engineering and design department

[fpv_gtho]

http://www.theage.com.au/news/business/pms-back-in-town-good-news-for-ford/2006/05/04/1146335868332.html

The Federal government and Victorian government have also collaborated on an aid package for Ford. The PM is optimistic the local industry will be the primary source of resources during this development program

[mmm_aapls]

hmm this is intersting.

The company I work for has been trying to get FORD business back lately. aybe they already new about this.
I might be looking for a new job soon then. :)

[fpv_gtho]

What sort of work does your company do?

[Spastik_Roach]

I wonder if this means the Territory, maybe could just be exported to America? Or perhaps Britain.. I reckon the Territory would do a class act for Aussie in Britain

[sick holden]

The global market for big cars especially 4 x 4 is shrinking and in the UK there are heavy 'penalties' in the form of much higher road tax on big cars and with petrol going the way it is I think Ford is better off designing a smaller more economical car.

[nota]

The global market for big cars especially 4 x 4 is shrinking and in the UK there are heavy 'penalties' in the form of much higher road tax on big cars and with petrol going the way it is I think Ford is better off designing a smaller more economical car.
Fiesta & Focus not good enough? You reckon Ford Oz has a more viable future competing with everybody else through exporting cheap small cars?

[fpv_gtho]

I wonder if this means the Territory, maybe could just be exported to America? Or perhaps Britain.. I reckon the Territory would do a class act for Aussie in Britain

The Brits would only be interested in either a diesel or the turbo model

[sick holden]

No but I don't think they will sell many big cars over there. How long do you think big cars like the Foulcan or Commonwhore will be viable if petrol keeps going the way it has ?


Fiesta & Focus not good enough? You reckon Ford Oz has a more viable future competing with everybody else through exporting cheap small cars?

[fpv_gtho]

They dont have to sell many to make business sense. They only expect to sell around 2000 Territory's a year in Sth Africa and NZ for instance

[SlickHolden]

Hey this is good new for Australia both daddies now wont there baby's to take big lead rolls, See Aussie's do it best:D

Is this lights truck more maybe the size a maybe a Ford Ute:) Something smaller then the F series pickups?? Not everyone wants one of them big things to get around in when they can have a good size one with 300kw:D.
This all might fund a new Ford Ute that doesn't rely on the Sedan at all.


No but I don't think they will sell many big cars over there. How long do you think big cars like the Foulcan or Commonwhore will be viable if petrol keeps going the way it has ?
Thats seems familiar:D
Not a Fan of the Falcon and Commodore:rolleyes:

[Falcon500]

Well its true no manufactuor will continue a line if its no longer viable ie the last mustang and cougers to come into aus(took years to move the last few examples) and on a grander scales chevrolets/pontiacs F body series for example....which goes to show no matter how seemingly quintessential a car may seem if its not working they simply wont tolerate it.

[Coventrysucks]

in the UK there are heavy 'penalties' in the form of much higher road tax on big cars

£40 (96AUD) per year more road tax for "gas guzzlers" isn't much of a penalty.

The price of fuel is the problem.

Predictions are that petrol will soon reach £1 per litre (2.40AUD)

The last Ford SUV sold in the UK was the Escape under a different name. It sold so badly that they gave up after a while - most looking at that type of vehicle went for a Freelander.

I think that there may not be a big enough market for the Territory - most people are more interested in brand image, so people will be more likely to buy a Land Rover.

Big saloons that aren't German or Jaguar are very unpopular at the moment as well, so that more or less rules the Falcon out, but there are rumours that Holden may start sending over high power Commodores to replace the Monaro.

The Monaro was a big success here, time for a Ford version to replace it?

It would certainly add to the Ford "ST" sporting brand's credibility.

The idea of a "new" Capri also keeps cropping up - a large V6/V8 coupe fits that bill.

[sick holden]

Falcon500, that is absolutely true.
I am not a big fan of Falcons/Commodores. I have had a few Falcons in my time but the recent models don't do much for me. Friends who have had them have had more than their fair share of problems. I have a Magna with 260,000 k's and it runs like a dream. If I was to buy a new locally made big car it would be a Toyota I think or a 380.

[sick holden]

Coventry, yes I agree around a $100 isn't much but that will undoubtedly increase whereas tax for small economical cars and hybrids will drop. Like you I can't see much of a market for them really other than some people having them for their oddity value.

Ford Australia produced a new Capri years ago which was an ugly disaster, it looked like a bad kit car on Mazda running gear.

How many Monaros were actually sold in the UK ? If they do start sending Commonwhores to the UK they had better have good warranty back up and loads of spares :-)

[syko]

Ford Australia produced a new Capri years ago which was an ugly disaster, it looked like a bad kit car on Mazda running gear.


They weren't that bad, especially the later ones. They hold there value quite well, good ones are still around $12000 and the mazda mechanics meant that they will last quite a while. The only downside was the roof leaking and the hard top ones didn't fold, so you had to physically remove it when you wanted the top down.

[sick holden]

The best value I can find for one is $9,300 for the top of the range model, considering they were $34,000 new I'm not sure if that represents holding it's value well. Older ones are worth upwards of $2,300. The were a very unattractive car. The Mazda mechanicals were certainly a bonus.

[fpv_gtho]

Hey this is good new for Australia both daddies now wont there baby's to take big lead rolls, See Aussie's do it best:D

Is this lights truck more maybe the size a maybe a Ford Ute:) Something smaller then the F series pickups?? Not everyone wants one of them big things to get around in when they can have a good size one with 300kw:D.
This all might fund a new Ford Ute that doesn't rely on the Sedan at all.


Thats seems familiar:D
Not a Fan of the Falcon and Commodore:rolleyes:

It would more than likely be the replacement for the Courier. Ford have a facelift coming at the end of the year, although that could very well still be very similar to the current model underneath


£40 (96AUD) per year more road tax for "gas guzzlers" isn't much of a penalty.

The price of fuel is the problem.

Predictions are that petrol will soon reach £1 per litre (2.40AUD)

The last Ford SUV sold in the UK was the Escape under a different name. It sold so badly that they gave up after a while - most looking at that type of vehicle went for a Freelander.

I think that there may not be a big enough market for the Territory - most people are more interested in brand image, so people will be more likely to buy a Land Rover.

Big saloons that aren't German or Jaguar are very unpopular at the moment as well, so that more or less rules the Falcon out, but there are rumours that Holden may start sending over high power Commodores to replace the Monaro.

The Monaro was a big success here, time for a Ford version to replace it?

It would certainly add to the Ford "ST" sporting brand's credibility.

The idea of a "new" Capri also keeps cropping up - a large V6/V8 coupe fits that bill.

Do you think Ford could get away with trying to market them as more of a niche product, even with Holdens presence?

[sick holden]

A GT40 could be sold as a niche product, not sure if a 4x4 based on a family sedan would meet the same criteria.

[fpv_gtho]

Thats the thing though, a niche market doesnt have to have criteria. It can just be something that doesnt fit into a mainstream market, and it could be argued both the Falcon and Territory wouldnt fit in any traditional UK market. Just like the Monaro has over there

[sick holden]

I don't know, there is more to importing a few 'odd' cars, they need a full parts, service and warranty back up, is it worth it for the numbers they would sell ? There is a huge choice of cars in the UK and I'm not sure a Falcon would sell at all to be honest.

[fpv_gtho]

Theyve put the effort in to export what might only be 200 cars a year to Thailand a year. Surely this would be less of a challenge

[sick holden]

Well I don't think it would be money well spent but American car companies don't seem very good at money management do they ? :-)

[fpv_gtho]

Well unlike the US market, our cars can be sold in the UK at an increased price, and people still might buy them as for the price they cant get anything that size with the same sort of handling/power. That was the Monaro's main attraction

[fpv_gtho]

Theres a little bit more amongst this: http://carpoint.ninemsn.com.au/car-review/1738735.aspx

[Coventrysucks]

Thats the thing though, a niche market doesnt have to have criteria. It can just be something that doesnt fit into a mainstream market, and it could be argued both the Falcon and Territory wouldnt fit in any traditional UK market. Just like the Monaro has over there

The FPV/GT Falcons could certainly fill a niche, but I doubt there would be many takers for the "boring" versions.

There has been a slow but steady stream of Holden Commodores - mostly HSV versions being imported by specialists since the late-mid '90s, and the popularity of the Monaro shows that there is a market for big lairy (and relatively cheap) saloons.

The Territory could be quite popular; it depends on how they market it, how much they want to sell it for etc.

[fpv_gtho]

The FPV/GT Falcons could certainly fill a niche, but I doubt there would be many takers for the "boring" versions.

There has been a slow but steady stream of Holden Commodores - mostly HSV versions being imported by specialists since the late-mid '90s, and the popularity of the Monaro shows that there is a market for big lairy (and relatively cheap) saloons.

The Territory could be quite popular; it depends on how they market it, how much they want to sell it for etc.

Thats understandable, even here theres less and less buyers buying the base models, and prefering to pay more for either the luxury models or the sports models.

I think Tom Walkinshaw has plans to start importing HSV sedans pretty soon, as well as setting up a tuning arm, so that could be something Ford can keep an eye out on.

[SlickHolden]

I seen more of the Ford story on the news it's a very good commitment to building here for a decade, I hate to say it but the same commitment isn't coming from fishermen's bend, Now it could be they dont need to or just don't wont to?. But with Lutz and his big gob something like this from holden would be comforting to the many workers.




Falcon500, that is absolutely true.
I am not a big fan of Falcons/Commodores. I have had a few Falcons in my time but the recent models don't do much for me. Friends who have had them have had more than their fair share of problems. I have a Magna with 260,000 k's and it runs like a dream. If I was to buy a new locally made big car it would be a Toyota I think or a 380.
Wouldn't run as good as my Commodore with over 300,000 on the clock:D.

All cars have problems but you never here about the ones that don't have issues only the ones that do.

[nota]

They weren't that bad, especially the later ones. They hold there value quite well, good ones are still around $12000 and the mazda mechanics meant that they will last quite a while. The only downside was the roof leaking and the hard top ones didn't fold, so you had to physically remove it when you wanted the top down.
Absolutely agree with you :cool:

Capris certainly improved along the way and they weren't a bad jigger for those of open mind. A friend of mine risked an early Capri when it was 5 y/o and she had a great run out of it, resale was good too. In a kind gesture Ford even replaced the entire soft top for free - despite it being way out of warranty and her second-owner status. I reckon they look ok too, they seem to have aged well and are certainly distinctive. Turbo Capris went well and in particular the final Clubsport & Barchetta were good units and have proven to be very solid value for what they were

The best value I can find for one is $9,300 for the top of the range model, considering they were $34,000 new I'm not sure if that represents holding it's value well. Older ones are worth upwards of $2,300.
You must be joking - surely? Capris are now 12 to 18 years old so $9300 doesn't sound too bad at all for a supposed unloved lemon!
A retained-value figure of around 30% is sensational for at worst a twelve y/o car

Have you checked out how little 1988 Camrys or Magnas are worth these days? They are worth bugger all. Likewise no 1994 Camry or Magna will bring anywhere near $9300 that's for sure .. in fact I could buy a 2001 Magna tomorrow for under $9k :rolleyes:

The marketplace speaks for itself and most cars including fancy badges like Mercedes and BMW have incurred far FAR greater depreciation than those nifty little Capris have

http://www.drive.com.au/used/search/results.aspx?m=FORD%7cCAPRI&yr=1988%7c1995&pr=5000%7c

[sick holden]

My point was that the Capri is extremely ugly and very very boring styling wise. I didn't comment on their reliability or their performance. The $9300 I quoted was the absloute highest for the last model with below average mileage. The average overall seemed to be around $3000-6000 which is around more like 10-25% of original price.
Yes there are lots of Capri's for sale for way more than they are worth.
I absolutely agree about the values of Magnas, Camrys etc, the same of course goes for Commonwhores and Foulcans, once they get 12 or 14 years old they are practically worthless.

[nota]

My point was that the Capri is extremely ugly and very very boring styling wise
and how good does your old Smegma look with 260,000 on it? :o

[sick holden]

The Magna is a family car, it isn't supposed to look like anything but a family car and the mileage doesn't affect the look of the car, it's not a transformer ;)
The Capri was supposed to be a sports car to challenge those from Europe and Japan, it is fair to say it fell well short of the mark. :D


and how good does your Smegma look with 260,000 on it? :o

[nota]

The Magna is a family car, it isn't supposed to look like anything but a family car and the mileage doesn't affect the look of the car, it's not a transformer ;)
So its perfectly ok for a car to look completely bland so long as its a family car - is that what you're saying? ;)

The Capri was supposed to be a sports car to challenge those from Europe and Japan
Not at all .. Capri wasn't a sports car or designed for the Nurburgring. It was our least expensive convertible, a personal suburban runabout with sporty connotations and aimed mainly at women. In general, women have their own aspirations when it comes to cars and there's nothing wrong with that, imo

What model Smegma do you have - a sterile TS perhaps?

[sick holden]

Yes I think it is perfectly OK for a family car to look bland as long as it does what is suppose to and it sells.
Yes we have a TS, not sure if it's sterile though, there is some dirt and leaves and the usual stuff kids bring into cars. I didn't buy it to take to car shows, it's a family car plain and simple, it's on LPG and it does the job better than any other car we have had.
It seems odd to say that Capri wasn't intended as a sports car, what on Earth was it supposed to be then ? A suburban runabout ? A turbo convertible runabout ?

[nota]

Yes I think it is perfectly OK for a family car to look bland as long as it does what is suppose to and it sells.
Yes we have a TS, not sure if it's sterile though, there is some dirt and leaves and the usual stuff kids bring into cars. I didn't buy it to take to car shows, it's a family car plain and simple, it's on LPG and it does the job better than any other car we have had.
Personally I don't mind Mitsushiti Slagmas - like the Capri they are underrated but that doesn't stop them from being ok. However in comparison to Capris I'd say a grotty TS Slugma on LPG has about as much sex appeal as herpes. Limp dick personified

It seems odd to say that Capri wasn't intended as a sports car, what on Earth was it supposed to be then ? A suburban runabout ? A turbo convertible runabout ?
Which of these turbo convertibles do you rate as genuine sports cars:

Renault Megane
Holden Astra
Saab 9-3
Daihatsu Copen

etcetera :p

[sick holden]

A Magna with sex appeal ? Who was comparing a Magna with a Capri ?

Of those cars you listed I wouldn't really class any of them as a genuine sports car, things have changed a lot if the last 10 years. Back when the Crappi was made it was supposed to be some kind of sports car but lets be honest it failed dramatically. This is the header from the website for the Modern Capri '
"WE ARE DEDICATED TO KEEPING THIS GREAT AUSSIE SPORTS CAR ON THE ROAD!!" ' I guess they consider it was at least supposed to be a sports car.


Personally I don't mind Mitsushiti Slagmas - like the Capri they are underrated but that doesn't stop them from being ok. However in comparison to Capris I'd say a grotty TS Slugma on LPG has about as much sex appeal as herpes. Limp dick personified

Which of these turbo convertibles do you rate as genuine sports cars:

Renault Megane
Holden Astra
Saab 9-3
Daihatsu Copen

etcetera :p

[nota]

A Sigma with sex appeal ? Who was comparing a Magna with a Capri ?
Well you were slagging off about now-ancient Capris like they're a steaming pile of junk .. but omg look what you trundle around in

(btw I have 22 y/o Benz with 400,000 so I can't talk either ;))

Of those cars you listed I wouldn't really class any of them as a genuine sports car, things have changed a lot if the last 10 years. Back when the Crappi was made it was supposed to be some kind of sports car but lets be honest it failed dramatically. This is the header from the website for the Modern Capri '
"WE ARE DEDICATED TO KEEPING THIS GREAT AUSSIE SPORTS CAR ON THE ROAD!!" ' I guess they consider it was at least supposed to be a sports car.
Sure it failed @ 0.72 cents to the USD, hardly a fault of the car. When the Capri program was okayed our exchange rate was under 50 cents, so a 50% increase. I wouldn't define any of those as sports cars either. Nor do headers from fan-websites hold 'proof of title' for defining vehicle genres - at least not imho. Its better to hold an independant mind donchareckon?

Case in point: Consider these two ostensibly very similar 10+ y/o vehicles. As a knowledgable car enthusiast would you define either as a sports car, and why?

Ford Capri XR2
Lotus Elan (Isuzu engine)

nb: both are FWD turbo convertibles based on japanese econo-sedan mechanicals, are of similar-ish size & also closely akin in styling imo

[Falcon500]

It seems odd to say that Capri wasn't intended as a sports car, what on Earth was it supposed to be then ? A suburban runabout ? A turbo convertible runabout ?
Thats what the MR2 was origonally intended for mr2= Midship Runabout 2 seater ...and the ford capri here didnt have to work hard to be the fastest 2 seater hair dressers cars all considering everything else it competed against was n/a (upon initial release in this country)

[sick holden]

I can't for one second see what difference it makes what car I trundle around in, I also have a 2001 Courier 4x4 dual cab turbo diesel and a people mover for the family. The Magna is our cheap runaround.

Both those cars you listed are sports cars, the Lotus more so due in no small part to it's heritage and ancestry, it goes against the grain to talk of them both in the one sentence. :D
I don't actually consider them to be a steaming pile of junk but I also don't think of them as anything to write home about, they look very ordinary IMO.
I can't see how the Capri can be classed as anything other than a sports car and I have no doubt that was how it was looked upon when released.
I have an independent mind but I can't just call the car a ute if it obviously isn't :)


Well you were slagging off about now-ancient Capris like they're a steaming pile of junk .. but omg look what you trundle around in

(btw I have 22 y/o Benz with 400,000 so I can't talk either ;))

Sure it failed @ 0.72 cents to the USD, hardly a fault of the car. When the Capri program was okayed our exchange rate was under 50 cents, so a 50% increase. I wouldn't define any of those as sports cars either. Nor do headers from fan-websites hold 'proof of title' for defining vehicle genres - at least not imho. Its better to hold an independant mind donchareckon?

Case in point: Consider these two ostensibly very similar 10+ y/o vehicles. As a knowledgable car enthusiast would you define either as a sports car, and why?

Ford Capri XR2
Lotus Elan (Isuzu engine)

nb: both are FWD turbo convertibles based on japanese econo-sedan mechanicals, are of similar-ish size & also closely akin in styling imo

[fpv_gtho]

I seen more of the Ford story on the news it's a very good commitment to building here for a decade, I hate to say it but the same commitment isn't coming from fishermen's bend, Now it could be they dont need to or just don't wont to?. But with Lutz and his big gob something like this from holden would be comforting to the many workers.

Holden could still be riding on the coat tails of engineering VE as a global platform, and probably still feel theres plenty of security in that and their growing export portfolio. Either way, i dont think GM is in a position in America to be able to gurantee Holdens future for as long as 10 years. There could be alot of backlash from them committing here for so long and neglecting the American market, so to speak.

[adrenaline]

going back to the oringinal topic, Im glad that Dearborn finally recognised that Aussies have all the talent:D

Ford Oz should drop the E8 falcon on america...i reckon it would sell its ass off....assuming they got the price right...

[Falcon500]

going back to the oringinal topic, Im glad that Dearborn finally recognised that Aussies have all the talent:D

Ford Oz should drop the E8 falcon on america...i reckon it would sell its ass off....assuming they got the price right...
I cant see why it wouldent the crown vic seems to still sell ok (any americans want to comment? im honsetly not shure) and the falcon shure seems to be a much more capeable platform then the crown vic.(and hell its probably near 10 years newer)

[IBrake4Rainbows]

The crown Vic has great fleet market sales. IIRC few (If any) private sales are made.

I think that Ford would need to create a performance aura around the Falcon before 'dropping' it on the US market - the only thing that makes vehicles of it's type sell in the US is Performance - if the Family want to buy a car it's usually an SUV. They could argue about 'Not being Retro' or something.

[Falcon500]

The crown Vic has great fleet market sales. IIRC few (If any) private sales are made.

I think that Ford would need to create a performance aura around the Falcon before 'dropping' it on the US market - the only thing that makes vehicles of it's type sell in the US is Performance - if the Family want to buy a car it's usually an SUV. They could argue about 'Not being Retro' or something.
Well the GTO proved you cant guess in this market...they gauged intrest but they didnt gauge what people thought they where worth (and somethings only worth what your willing to pay) if they properly researched that theyd of found that they liked the idea of 30k odd rather then the 50k odd mark they went for...

Ok now your wondering what im getting at. I read an editorial in Hot rod about 2 years back when the GTO looked like comming over and it seemed like a great car! 320 odd hp 380 ft/lbs odd and around 3800lbs in weight and then they converted our price to what was a stronger american dollar (and didnt think of import tarifs and so on and so forth) and its price looked like 36k (and shit those stats at that price id have one) and then they looked at the falcon and done a similar thing and found out an xr8 was worth 28k in their money and then the editor raved on about vaule rwd muscle for your $ australias a muscle car haven and so on. Yeah they liked it when it seemed like a bargen and then reality kicked in :)

So theyd need to be competativly priced (of course) but how do we mange to sell the car in either the numbers or the prices required to get people to buy them? the GTO failed whats to say the territory and falcon can mange it?

[fpv_gtho]

I cant see why it wouldent the crown vic seems to still sell ok (any americans want to comment? im honsetly not shure) and the falcon shure seems to be a much more capeable platform then the crown vic.(and hell its probably near 10 years newer)

Try 20 years. I dont know how much the front end changed with AU compared to the EA but the the rear end definately dates from 2002. The Panther platform under the Crown Vic was first used in the 70's..

[Falcon500]

Try 20 years. I dont know how much the front end changed with AU compared to the EA but the the rear end definately dates from 2002. The Panther platform under the Crown Vic was first used in the 70's..
I knew it was to the point of being archaic but that just bad.....it would be like if ford here just re wrapped the XD over and over again :(

[fpv_gtho]

Well its at the point where Ford will advertise them at $25K+, a buyer will walk away having paid $17K for one and both parties feel theyve made a good deal

[Falcon500]

Well its at the point where Ford will advertise them at $25K+, a buyer will walk away having paid $17K for one and both parties feel theyve made a good deal
ah but that been said the american car market has fixed values so there is very little straying from the advertising price and also eliminates rivalry between same marque dealerships and also insure fair tradeing between everyone....weird to us i know but its a fact.

I got that from some friends who own a wholesale yard one lived in america and said they only place you haggle for cars is a used car lot.

[fpv_gtho]

Ive heard the opposite strangely enough, with the CV and GTO being 2 of the biggest victims of haggling/discounting lately

[Matra et Alpine]

insure fair tradeing between everyone....weird to us i know but its a fact.
Yeah I was always taken aback that US consumers were stuck with FIXED prices which in any capitalist economy is an anathema :) Guess the big three are just more powerful than the goivernment :D
Mind you you STILL get cheaper prices than we pay even AFTER the fun of haggling price :( ( but so does everyone else in Europe !!! )

[Falcon500]

Ive heard the opposite strangely enough, with the CV and GTO being 2 of the biggest victims of haggling/discounting lately
Yeah discounting so they can move the bloody thngs :)

So the yanks no haggling get better prices then we do?...figures:rolleyes: I actually really enjoy the haggling and bartering side (something my parents despise) but I wouldent mind just cutting to the chase rather then both of us haveing to say enough bullshit to fill up three paddocks.:)

[SlickHolden]

The E8 V8 XR8:D

[Blitz_]

The E8 V8 XR8:D


strewth, what a mouthfull. :D :D :D

[Daz27]

I knew it was to the point of being archaic but that just bad.....it would be like if ford here just re wrapped the XD over and over again :(


XD was a (sorta) shrink wrapped XA, and still shared components with the XR (60's XR). I got a book here that shows what panels and suspension, driveline components that were carried over in each model cycle. When is the new Falcon coming out, isnt that thing going to have the healthiest and most efficient large 6 engine ever? Theyre getting to the point where the V8 is totally obsolete, if it isnt already. (The car gods wouldnt do it to us)
Ive got some friends in the states and all of them cream themselves when they see the BF XR8, or the XR6 turbo. They seem to think they'd sell their asses off over there.
On an old topic, whats the diff between a 80's Celica and a Capri? The Celica might as well be a Camry... Still Gutless, relatively unattractive (Fat) and looks dumb on the standard 14 inch wheels. But the ladies love them, just like the Capri. Just think, if women couldnt buy cars, there wouldnt have been a Capri, a Probe, or even the little Hyundai X3 Excels with their funky pink handbook folders...

[nota]

Yep the PROBE was aimed deeply into women's preferences

[Daz27]

Having been famously designed by a woman, I should imagine it would be....

[fpv_gtho]

XD was a (sorta) shrink wrapped XA, and still shared components with the XR (60's XR). I got a book here that shows what panels and suspension, driveline components that were carried over in each model cycle. When is the new Falcon coming out, isnt that thing going to have the healthiest and most efficient large 6 engine ever? Theyre getting to the point where the V8 is totally obsolete, if it isnt already. (The car gods wouldnt do it to us)
Ive got some friends in the states and all of them cream themselves when they see the BF XR8, or the XR6 turbo. They seem to think they'd sell their asses off over there.
On an old topic, whats the diff between a 80's Celica and a Capri? The Celica might as well be a Camry... Still Gutless, relatively unattractive (Fat) and looks dumb on the standard 14 inch wheels. But the ladies love them, just like the Capri. Just think, if women couldnt buy cars, there wouldnt have been a Capri, a Probe, or even the little Hyundai X3 Excels with their funky pink handbook folders...

Im PREEEEETY sure..the XD was infact the XC underpinnings with a new front end and of course new body. XE had the new rear end though and a few other things. The front end of course probably still exists somewhat in the current BF, as XD was where they changed to the more conventional double wishbone front end, rather than having the front springs attached to the UPPER A arms...There was ofcourse the offset change for EL, dont know what else theyve done though

[zeta]

So why is their critism of American SUV's burning mad fuel, and the popular sedan Falcon has the same 4.0L and 5.4L motors as the 7seaters (mid) Explorer and (large) Expedition?

[fpv_gtho]

The 4L in the Falcon is unique to Australia

[adrenaline]

Do a wieght comparison:D...and the falcon engine is very different, recently it was given a 100 million dollar overhaul (Am i right there about the cost of the upgrade? :confused: )

[fpv_gtho]

Ford got a fairly large percentage of a grant given to all the locals, but i think it was only $27M

[adrenaline]

hmmm...i heard 100 million somewhere but it didnt sound right!!

[fpv_gtho]

Probably the current grant, which is 52 mill now, 48 mill sometime later, which is being said by the government to fund Ford developing another territory and falcon, as well as in assistance in the light commercial platform, but really its a sweatener to get Ford to use local suppliers in priority over asian suppliers when they develop the lot.

[zeta]

The 4L in the Falcon is unique to Australia

How so? whats the difference between the exploders'

[adrenaline]

48 million in 2010 i think...good on the gov't.

[adrenaline]

How so? whats the difference between the exploders'
Its a straight six, the americas have V6's dont they?

[fpv_gtho]

Falcon has a DOHCstraight six, Exploder has a SOHC V6

[fpv_gtho]

48 million in 2010 i think...good on the gov't.

Its a drop in the ocean really. I have to wonder if the money would be better spent on the local supply industry as opposed to the manufacturing industry

[adrenaline]

Wasnt the reason for the grant in part to help the local suppliers? It creats 200+ jobs for ford which is good. And it makes Big Tom feel special.

Did holden get anything/ Do they get much from govt concerning the VE?

[zeta]

Falcon has a DOHCstraight six, Exploder has a SOHC V6

So there is no difference in fuel, and the exploder has 7 passanger capacity, and not that much slower then similiar falcon.

[fpv_gtho]

Where are you getting theres no difference in fuel? Falcons are about 13L/100km combined, Explorers would be at least 5L/100km worse as its a less economical engine in a 500kg heavier vehicle

[adrenaline]

does 'exploder' do 8 secs or so to 60 (MP/h). I would have thought more like 11.

[fpv_gtho]

Wasnt the reason for the grant in part to help the local suppliers? It creats 200+ jobs for ford which is good. And it makes Big Tom feel special.

Did holden get anything/ Do they get much from govt concerning the VE?

I havent heard of Holden getting anything, but theyre claiming they couldnt afford to keep giving local suppliers priority.

I just think its better off helping the local industry grow rather than literally bribing Ford to use local suppliers. Maybe Fords input will cause the local supppliers to be more competitive internationally, but will they be able to attract overseas business?

[adrenaline]

Holden are devoting so much of their time to overseas cars (daewoos)/ overseas resources. They will have to change their slogan: "Holden means alot to Korea"

[fpv_gtho]

Or more accurately..

"Korea means alot to Holden"

[zeta]

Ok the latest 2006 explorer now has a 4l V6, its fuel eco is 15city/21highway 7 passanger, 7300lb towing capacity 0-60 is 7.9-8.7 secs- says ford, motortrend and caranddriver. how much different is that from the sim falcon

[adrenaline]

7.9 secs for the explorer V6? Thats surprising, you sure its not the V8?

[zeta]

Yeh, your right thats the 4.6 V8 option, with the 7.8s rating

[adrenaline]

Nevertheless i find that impressive for a vehicle of that size

[fpv_gtho]

US performance quotes always seem optimistic to us, i think their weather isnt as power sapping or something...For example, people thought the '04 GTO, so our 03 Monaro, would get 0-60mph in 5.1 with the 260kw engine

[zeta]

US performance quotes always seem optimistic to us, i think their weather isnt as power sapping or something...For example, people thought the '04 GTO, so our 03 Monaro, would get 0-60mph in 5.1 with the 260kw engine

Could be hemisphere.

[fpv_gtho]

I cant imagine how much of an effect that could make, but certainly we live in more arid conditions than the US. Most people who go between the US and here say its alot more humid here as well

[Falcon500]

Some storys ive heard is such decption as running then down a slight incline over the 1/4 and the classic DIN scandal (apparently thats how pontiac had the higest hp figures in the 70s with its 455)

[2ndclasscitizen]

DIN is the one that gives a higher power rating isn't it? Because IIRC, when measured in DIN, a VY2 Clubbie had nearly 10kw over the GT

[Falcon500]

DIN is the one that gives a higher power rating isn't it? Because IIRC, when measured in DIN, a VY2 Clubbie had nearly 10kw over the GT
orys are rife of ford useing it since the eb v8-auIII i find earlier reports on this action dubious up untill EL all considering the Falcon models usally had a few tenths off the holden;) AU its possible but i still doubt it either way mustang and performance ford (or some yank mag) apparently tested a late model cobra on a chassis dyno and found it made the quoted flywheel hp at the rear wheels....christ knows what they do:confused:

[fpv_gtho]

Ford US has been lying about the Mustangs for years. The last of the 4.6 supercharged models had closer to 430hp than 390hp. But yes, Ford do use DIN, but at 285kw it was only another 7kw.

[mmm_aapls]

DIN is the one that gives a higher power rating isn't it? Because IIRC, when measured in DIN, a VY2 Clubbie had nearly 10kw over the GT

DIN and SAE are almost the same but will give different values.

Both standards say that the engine is tested with all parasitic devices attached and a full exhasut and factory intake.

Operating parameters alter though:

DIN 70020 - +20 dgrees celcius, 1013 mbar atomspheric pressure.
SAE - +25 dgress celcius, 990 mbar pressure.

Both standards also state 0% reletive humidity. So DIN is usually a higher number.

Alot of people in the industry use a simple formula to convert DIN to SAE net.
SAE net = DIN / 1.0139
This of course is onlya estimate.

[Falcon500]

I often wonderd what the exact perametres where i always assumed it was only a controlled enviroment not anything in print thanks for that :)

[fpv_gtho]

It shows you though how much of an effect the hot weather has. If a 5 degree difference in the low 20's, you can see how 40 degrees can be so bad

[Falcon500]

Well im guessing its worse in america of course im not to shure about the modern motor but for eample the stude engine has exhaust forts that specificly run under the carbie to warm it up to help with fuel atomization....as i said i dont know about the modern motor but that was a compramise that was built into the motor to help it run in colder climates....if anything it hampers warm weather peformance (hence the steel plate we made up to block it....make it a bitch on - days though) but its built to be optimal in average to colder climates...just a thought

[fpv_gtho]

I think generally we're alot more humid than America, so they gain a few hp over us.

[zeta]

I would think that humid climate gives car performance an advantage, fuel is nice and vaporized and running temperature is perfect. Atmospheric pressure is never a factor unless your at a rare high point above sea level, but wait in recent times modern motors have a ambient air pressure sensor, so atmospheric pressure is not a factor anymore, regardless

[Kiwifan]

Ford US has been lying about the Mustangs for years. The last of the 4.6 supercharged models had closer to 430hp than 390hp. But yes, Ford do use DIN, but at 285kw it was only another 7kw.

Thats right. The LS1 GM V8 engine rated at 285kw is actually 292kw DIN and LS2 297kw engine is actually 305kw DIN. They should have same measuring systems across the board but it favours Ford as their outputs stated are higher than if measured SAE.
Back to subject...
Local production is a great thing but being realistic can not be achieved economically across the entire range of vehicles at present hence Holden sourcing cheaper alternatives for selected models from the fastest growing automotive building country in the world. Toyota and Ford are looking at doing the same for selected models. It makes sense to supply a reasonably priced, well specced product to the consumer without fleecing them.
If you subsidise manufacture now to keep building costs down you lose out down the line when economics can no longer sustain it

[SlickHolden]

Well Fords engine power is all bogus as there is way more for the FPV then 290kw and it's always been more like 300+.

[mmm_aapls]

I would think that humid climate gives car performance an advantage, fuel is nice and vaporized and running temperature is perfect. Atmospheric pressure is never a factor unless your at a rare high point above sea level, but wait in recent times modern motors have a ambient air pressure sensor, so atmospheric pressure is not a factor anymore, regardless

I am going to have to disagree here. You do realise that ambient temperature and pressure are irelated? You cannot affect one without affecting the other.

P*V = n*R*T
where: P = pressure
V = volume
n = number of moles
R = gas constant
T = temperature
Also, denisty is given by

D = P / (R *T)
where: D = density, kg/m3
P = pressure, Pascals ( multiply mb by 100 to get Pascals)
R = gas constant , J/(kg*degK) = 287.05 for dry air
T = temperature, degK = deg C + 273.15


As an example, using the ISA standard sea level conditions of P = 101325 Pa and T = 15 deg C, the air density at sea level, may be calculated as:

D = (101325) / (287.05 * (15 + 273.15)) = 1.2250 kg/m3

So have a play with some values for termperatur and pressure and then make up your mind if atmospheric pressure is not an issue.

If you want to read up more, do some research on density of moist air (since the above is only dry air, as stated by the standards). Also, maybe have a loook at some of the equations for calibration dyno's. You will find that both pressure and temperature are part of the calibrating factors for all dynos.

[zeta]

Ops, I got the ambient temperature and manifold absolute pressure mixed up, i really meant the second one.
Interesting with precise calculation values tho.

[fpv_gtho]

Well Fords engine power is all bogus as there is way more for the FPV then 290kw and it's always been more like 300+.

Not really. The engine's capable of more, but it isnt producing any more than Ford are saying. The F6 on the otherhand is all over the place. Its producing rwkw figures consistent with 300kw at the flywheel

[adrenaline]

It'd be good to see FPV/ HSV use RWkw aswell as the Kw on paper...Im pretty sure when motor tested the HSVs and FPVs that the fords had the same/ or maybe more rwkw than the HSVs which are rated higher on paper...

[fpv_gtho]

IIRC that was the first muscle car test Motor done after BA and VY were released...and youre right, despite at least a 15kw advantage to the GTS, it was outgunned by a GT on a dyno for rwkw. I dont know how they would compare today, but both the F6 and GT have had readings back of around 240rwkw, which as i said before indicate about 300fwkw

[john14]

Basically, who believes Ford will significantly increase their Australian sales figures during/over the next 3-5 years? Will the figures increase or decrease?

[SlickHolden]

Not really. The engine's capable of more, but it isnt producing any more than Ford are saying. The F6 on the otherhand is all over the place. Its producing rwkw figures consistent with 300kw at the flywheel
Don't you remember the article that drive i think did, They said you couldn't do that what they did to a engine and say it's the same power, What was it again? Don't talk about the pooowar? I think it's around here I'll look.

[fpv_gtho]

Basically, who believes Ford will significantly increase their Australian sales figures during/over the next 3-5 years? Will the figures increase or decrease?

Significantly, theyve got no chance unless the plan on making any car they plan on selling here. Any increase at all is possible though. If fuel prices go down, or Ford implement alternative fuels over a wide range, they could reverse the negative image towards their large cars.

[adrenaline]

Basically, who believes Ford will significantly increase their Australian sales figures during/over the next 3-5 years? Will the figures increase or decrease?

They said recently that they didnt expect a large change in sales figures for a while yet...

[SlickHolden]

I got petrol @ 1.28 today thats pretty good compared to the 1.45 last week.

[fpv_gtho]

What was it yesterday? Its cheapest on tuesday here

[SlickHolden]

Today early morning but by the arvo my friend got it for 1.39.

[IBrake4Rainbows]

Vouchered yesterday evening I paid 128.9.

It's the cheapest it's been in a while, actually.

[SlickHolden]

Hey when it's under 1.30 we are all pretty happy.
But i was to tight to pay 1.20 for Vortex PULP, Look at me now:p

[IBrake4Rainbows]

It's freakin ridiculous and the hardest pill to swallow - there is nothing, NOTHING, we can do about it.

high fuel prices make me a sad panda :p

[SlickHolden]

Do pandas eat smacko's:p
Bloody governments need to step in now, If they wont ad $5 p/w extra for people to but this high price crap then they need to cut the price by cutting the tax.

[IBrake4Rainbows]

Cut the tax? and lose some of their share of the profits? you're having a laugh!

The recent tax cuts, it could be argued, would be absorbed by the extra cost in fuel, but of course Costello's need to keep his pool topped up with taxpayer money so he can bathe in it (around 10 Billion Dollars worth) will surely override any 'for the good of the people' feelings the government may have.

and currently the Panda is eating M&M's :)

[SlickHolden]

I think the country would give up a tax cut to cut the price of fuel per litre by 30c.
But rolling in 10 billion must be hard :D It's not very much to old peter jackripper Costello. We got Abbot and Costello working in Canberra:p And the little dwarf:D

M&M's Yum:)