Lotus Elan +2

[greg.harvey]

This thread is ultimately destined for Matt's Hi-Res Hide-Out, but in the meantime (while I get a chance to gather photos) here is some background information on the Elan +2. Please add your own hi-res +2 photos, if you have any.

Colin Chapman created one of the most famous sportscars in the world the day the first Lotus Elan coupé rolled off the production line, back in 1962. Famed for its handling, the '60s' Elan is still one of the best handling cars in the world, in spite of being a 45-year-old design.

A roaring success as the coupé was, traditionally aiming for the self-build and weekend racer market, Lotus found themselves having to adapt to survive. As the sportscar market evolved and matured, Lotus took a couple of key decisions leading to a departure from their previous core market. This was signified by the birth of the +2 in 1967.

The Elan +2 was built to move away from the 'kit car' reputation of Lotus (and clientele, to an extent) and to allow them to compete with the likes of Jaguar (the E-Type) and Porsche (the 911) in the quality, factory-built sportscar market. There was also a +2S, sporting more wood, leather and other luxuries, such as electric windows. These models were not to be offered as a kit, and with their longer wheelbase, more impressive interior trim (especially in the +2S) and extra '2' seats, they were clearly pitched at a more well-healed public to be practical, luxurious fun.

Due to the greater weight of the +2, it always suffered a drop in acceleration times when compared to the lighter coupé, however improved aerodynamics meant the top speed was unaffected. And the famous Elan handling is near identical - indeed, some drivers swear the longer wheelbase and wider track on the +2 actually afford better handling than the original coupé.

In 1971 came the +2S 130/5, sporting the 'Big-Valve' engine. This was a new cylinder head on the same Ford-based block as before, producing an extra 8bhp at factory tuning. Many Lotus enthusiasts view the 'Big-Valve' engine as little more than a marketing exercise (the argument being, Lotus could have easily produced the extra horsepower from the original engine) but the fact remains the 'Big-Valve' engine in factory setup brought a significant upgrade in terms of power. It took a half a second off the +2 acceleration, making the 'Big-Valve' +2S 130/5 as quick off the mark, quicker in a straight line and arguably better-handling than the original Elan S1 coupé. Impressive!

(When the 'Big-Valve' went in the coupé, better known as the Elan Sprint, 1971-1974, it was quicker than a Porsche 911E and a Ferrari Dino 246.)

The +2 continued to be made up until 1974, where the times caught up with it. It was still a very quick car, but new safety regulations meant Lotus would've had to spend a small fortune to redesign it for UK type approval. Instead they dropped the Elan range in favour of focusing on the production of their latest models. After a successful 12-year run, the original Elan was shelved.

For the record, my +2 (photos coming soon) is one of the last, a +2S 130/5 from early 1974, when Lotus had once again dropped Weber carburetors, after a quick fling on the 'Big-Valve' engine, and reverted to Dellortos.

[Pando]

Nice, I saw one of these last weekend and almost requested a thread since I noticed it was absent. But you read my mind! :)

Edit: Here's my picture in 1280x1024 (I have no idea what the prefered resolution is...) :o

[DesmoRob]

Some guy in my town has a yellow elan, and I always see him around. The guy himself looks like the biggest flamer always wearing the same clothes and brutal hair style, but I give him props for his car.
http://carpictures.duble.com/Lotus/Elan/1.jpg

[DesmoRob]

sorry its not the Elan +2, but I couldn't help but share anyway.

[henk4]

Greg, the car was here all the time...

http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/forum/showthread.php?p=414629#post414629

[greg.harvey]

Hi Henk,

I completely forgot about your thread... but Matt doesn't have it in the Hi-Res index, hence me starting this after PM conversation with him. Good to have the +2 represented in his picture section. :)

Cheers,

G

[henk4]

Hi Henk,

I completely forgot about your thread... but Matt doesn't have it in the Hi-Res index, hence me starting this after PM conversation with him. Good to have the +2 represented in his picture section. :)

Cheers,

G

well, this is how it goes, the "corner" is for more serious dealings with the car and the use of "own" pictures, while the hide-out will accept everything hi-res, even with no specs at all..:)

[greg.harvey]

I see - but that was a separate thread...? Should I post this in the "corner" thread? Sorry... I'm sure I'm being st00pid! :( ;)

[Matt]

well, this is how it goes, the "corner" is for more serious dealings with the car and the use of "own" pictures, while the hide-out will accept everything hi-res, even with no specs at all..:)

Henk made up these rules and decided this is the way the hide-out is all on his own. Feel free to post it in the hide-out.

[henk4]

Henk made up these rules and decided this is the way the hide-out is all on his own. Feel free to post it in the hide-out.


can you spell out what you want to say in a more exact way?:)

[Matt]

can you spell out what you want to say in a more exact way?:)

I don't think I need to.

[henk4]

I don't think I need to.

well in this case I really cannot understand your English.....the line might need some editing

[Matt]

well, this is how it goes, the "corner" is for more serious dealings with the car and the use of "own" pictures, while the hide-out will accept everything hi-res, even with no specs at all..:)

OK, then try this. No offense to you personally, but this is complete bullshit. The corner is no more serious than the hide-out. There is no limitation on what type of pictures can be posted, self-taken or professionally-taken, as long as they are within the sizes preferred. Specs are always welcome and posted when readily available. EVERY thread, assuming they all have pictures that are at least 1024x768, that has been created as part of the corner would have been welcomed and appreciated in the hide-out.

[henk4]

OK, then try this. No offense to you personally, but this is complete bullshit. The corner is no more serious than the hide-out. There is no limitation on what type of pictures can be posted, self-taken or professionally-taken, as long as they are within the sizes preferred. Specs are always welcome and posted when readily available. EVERY thread, assuming they all have pictures that are at least 1024x768, that has been created as part of the corner would have been welcomed and appreciated in the hide-out.


well, that nicely explains the difference between how I see the difference between the corner and the hide-out. Condition for entry in the corner is that it contains a small write, and self taken pictures. You clearly describe that the entry to the hide-out is more liberal and many threads that you allow in the hide would have not met the criteria of the corner.
One of the reasons for the hide-out is the fact that during the UCP sponsored trips I am getting pictures of many cars that will never make it to the main page of UCP. In order not to let them get wasted I started the "corner" and the big man himself decided that it should come under the classic car section. So I invited everybody who has own pictures and some interesting stories/facts about a car to post in the corner. That the corner has not been very lively over the last couple of months is entirely due to some other priorities that I had.

[Sauc3]

well, that nicely explains the difference between how I see the difference between the corner and the hide-out. Condition for entry in the corner is that it contains a small write, and self taken pictures. You clearly describe that the entry to the hide-out is more liberal and many threads that you allow in the hide would have not met the criteria of the corner.
One of the reasons for the hide-out is the fact that during the UCP sponsored trips I am getting pictures of many cars that will never make it to the main page of UCP. In order not to let them get wasted I started the hide-out and the big man himself decided that it should come under the classic car section. So I invited everybody who has own pictures and some interesting stories/facts about a car to post in the corner. That the corner has not been very lively over the last couple of months is entirely due to some other priorities that I had.
But wouldn't these threads have also worked in the hide-out?

[Matt]

well, that nicely explains the difference between how I see the difference between the corner and the hide-out. Condition for entry in the corner is that it contains a small write, and self taken pictures. You clearly describe that the entry to the hide-out is more liberal and many threads that you allow in the hide would have not met the criteria of the corner.
One of the reasons for the hide-out is the fact that during the UCP sponsored trips I am getting pictures of many cars that will never make it to the main page of UCP. In order not to let them get wasted I started the hide-out and the big man himself decided that it should come under the classic car section. So I invited everybody who has own pictures and some interesting stories/facts about a car to post in the corner. That the corner has not been very lively over the last couple of months is entirely due to some other priorities that I had.

I just don't quite get it. The hide-out has vehicles from every era. The vast majority of the threads also have write-ups, specs (if nothing else links to specs posted elsewhere) and a mixture of professional and amateur photos. To me it's like building a smaller specialty library next door to a general library that still has a larger section of the same subject. I think all it does is make people have to go to two places to find information when they could go to one.

[Matra et Alpine]

Well at least we dont' get trucks and aircraft in Henks :D
I'm one who likes it seperated out.
If I'm in a hurry and there's an update there that's where I go first.

I do see a fundamental difference -- but likely because Pieter and my interests overlap :D -- those are modern pics of classic/unusal cars soem in intersting locations/events.

I do see alot of the Hi-Res is manufacturer released materisl -- adn that is greatly enjoyed too.

But there is a difference for some of us.
It's like McDOnalds burger and prime Aberdeen Angus beef :D
Each has it's place.

[Matt]

Well at least we dont' get trucks and aircraft in Henks :D
I'm one who likes it seperated out.
If I'm in a hurry and there's an update there that's where I go first.

I do see a fundamental difference -- but likely because Pieter and my interests overlap :D -- those are modern pics of classic/unusal cars soem in intersting locations/events.

I do see alot of the Hi-Res is manufacturer released materisl -- adn that is greatly enjoyed too.

But there is a difference for some of us.
It's like McDOnalds burger and prime Aberdeen Angus beef :D
Each has it's place.

There are more classic cars in the hide-out than in the corner. A lot of what has been posted in the corner also has a counterpart thread in the hide-out. Duplication without consistency gets quite annoying.

[Matra et Alpine]

There are more Mcdonalds burgers sold every day than prime steaks :)

See raising the "counterpart" just brings up the whole issue the hide out created anyway.
So someone posts a hi res image and some of us have dozens of images that dont' fit the hi-res requirements. When we've posted them mostly they've been asked to be removed or reminded they're not "hi res" and so we either go and create another thread or ( as I'm guilty of having done a few times ) the images don't get posted :(

oh now, you've gone and turned the rock over now :D

There are more lo-res images of cars and events around than there are hi-res.
( by virtue of old images arent' hi res by definition as they're taken from old sites or old scans or magazine prints )

So there will ALWAYS be duplication and it will never BE consistent and as aid before Pieter's are PICTURES taken at events of the real cars and that itself deserves a box for it to be self-consistent :D

[henk4]

There are more classic cars in the hide-out than in the corner. A lot of what has been posted in the corner also has a counterpart thread in the hide-out. Duplication without consistency gets quite annoying.

Duplication in the hide-out and the main page is quite annoying to me, to be honest. Therefore I only select cars that will not make it to the main page. You might call the corner a sort of "junior-UCP" or in my case a "senior:) " ucp

[McReis]

Let me put my own perspective here...

From the way I see things, the great thing about the Oddball Corner is that the write-ups are made by the post author and usually include some personal experience or episode with the car. And the photos have to be made by him too. This makes the author work more important and ads a different interest to the threads. It can sometimes be in part a duplication, but it's like seing different perspectives of the same issue. Many people who visit the Hide-out wouldn't have interest in the Oddball Corner stuff.

To me, the Hide-out is something amazing and an excellent piece of work from many members.. I don't think it has any conflict with the main page as it offers more images than it, while the main-page has the advantage of Wouter's write-ups. The public is also different, most of the times.

Something I don't like about the Hi-Res Hide-out recently, is the fact that plains, bulldozers and such, don't have a place of their own. Am I wrong?
Apart from that, it's one of the greatest thing of this forums and it attracts members...

...and so does the Oddball corner. I reckon we had many classic-car owner members entering the forums because of it. We've seem many of them saying that.

Conclusion? Well, I think if it wasn't for those low-res pics that happen to show up here and there, the Oddball Corner could even be a part of the Hide-out as one doesn't substitute the other. I think they are complementary.
While the subject is always showing pics and telling the story about the car, one is more personal, and the other more guided by picture quality, sometimes not having a word about the car except for the model name.

If members make clear in their minds what's the purpose of each, I can see no problem here. Since we already "hitchhiked" this forum, we should use it to define the frontiers in our heads right now.

[Revo]

I totally agree with MeA and McReis (excellent post there, Mr. Hairdresser :D)

It is quite impressive love triangle we have here: UCP main page-Oddball Corner-HiRes Hideout.:D

[greg.harvey]

It is quite impressive love triangle we have here: UCP main page-Oddball Corner-HiRes Hideout.:D

LOL! ;)
I see what McReis means - Oddball Corner is almost like a column, thanks to Pieter's commentary and the careful model selection, whereas the Hi-Res area is a great place to store any member pictures and comments on any vehicles. The Hi-Res index is a nice touch too.

[Matra et Alpine]

yeah but I dont' see the Hi Res index being kept up to date ... is it ????

[Suka]

I just have a lot of love for ALL of your guys...

[Matt]

yeah but I dont' see the Hi Res index being kept up to date ... is it ????

For the most part. Some of us have gotten busy and not been able to completely keep up with it. New threads get added to the hide-out too quickly. But, we're working on a way to get it updated more often.

[Matt]

Many people who visit the Hide-out wouldn't have interested in the Oddball Corner stuff.

I don't see what that has to do with anything. The vast majority of what has been posted (especially in the past 6 months since most of the major and well-known model lines are exhausted in the hide-out) in the hide-out has been the bizarre and obscure. And those are the ones that much of the time get the best comments. Again, I will reiterate the fact that everything that has been posted in the Corner would have been highly appreciated in the hide-out.



Something I don't like about the Hi-Res Hide-out recently, is the fact that plains, bulldozers and such, don't have a place of their own. Am I wrong?

They're not the expected subjects, but they are still appreciated by some. What's wrong with a bit of diversity? There are nearly 3000 individual automotive models posted in the hide-out. For those of us that post regularly in there, it has gotten harder and harder to find new material. Much of the automotive world, from start to present, has already been covered. Many of the same people who have interests in cars have interests in other types of vehicles. I don't see any problem with the rare posting of a non-automotive vehicle.



Conclusion? Well, I think if it wasn't for those low-res pics that happen to show up here and there, the Oddball Corner could even be a part of the Hide-out as one doesn't substitute the other. I think they are complementary.
While the subject is always showing pics and telling the story about the car, one is more personal, and the other more guided by picture quality, sometimes not having a word about the car except for the model name.

For those complaining about there not being specification or historical writings in each thread in the hide-out, add it yourself! There's nothing stopping you and nothing saying it would be anything less than greatly appreciated and welcomed. I believe that the content of the Corner would be a great addition to the Hide-Out. The spirit and interest, and really the final product, is so similar that it seems strange to me to have it in two different places. You will notice that the deletion of non-res-spec pictures in the hide-out has been happening less and less, especially in threads of cars that are very rare in the first place. For the most part, I just expect every thread to have been established with hi-res photos. I have stopped deleting additional lo-res pictures from the threads, unless they are horribly small and I know they are available in higher resolution

[McReis]

The vast majority of what has been posted (especially in the past 6 months since most of the major and well-known model lines are exhausted in the hide-out) in the hide-out has been the bizarre and obscure. And those are the ones that much of the time get the best comments. Again, I will reiterate the fact that everything that has been posted in the Corner would have been highly appreciated in the hide-out.

It's true. But how many of them are presented with a history and a nice write-up? Some people don't wish/like to do that. And those who would like to see a write-up with the photos, sometimes don't have any info about some of those cars. Wich doesn't deprecciate from the value of the thread. It's just something different. And while you may not agree, I think it's nice to separate media photos and info from personal photos and write-ups. Once again, I agree they could be put together in the hide-out. However they should have a place of their own, while being included in the Index.


They're not the expected subjects, but they are still appreciated by some. What's wrong with a bit of diversity? There are nearly 3000 individual automotive models posted in the hide-out. For those of us that post regularly in there, it has gotten harder and harder to find new material. Much of the automotive world, from start to present, has already been covered. Many of the same people who have interests in cars have interests in other types of vehicles. I don't see any problem with the rare posting of a non-automotive vehicle.

You got me wrong! I don't disagree with them being there. I just think there should be hide-out sub-section for that.



For those complaining about there not being specification or historical writings in each thread in the hide-out, add it yourself! There's nothing stopping you and nothing saying it would be anything less than greatly appreciated and welcomed. I believe that the content of the Corner would be a great addition to the Hide-Out. The spirit and interest, and really the final product, is so similar that it seems strange to me to have it in two different places.

It would be impossible for the few of us who make write-ups, to keep the pace of the hide-out. So the result would always be this: 80% of the threads wouldn't have a member write-up and 20% would. That's ok. But then how would we know where to expect to read a write-up from a fellow member? Do you see the importance of existing a place where to find only personal documented threads? It's nice to know where there is more than factory data and photos. That, however, doesn't stop you from copying the write-ups from OC to any HO thread.

There's another question that would come-up if the threads were all mixed up and we tried to make write-ups for all threads: Who would volunteer to make the write-up for, say, a MKI Fiat Punto? Is there really a story behind it? Would someone be happy to write about it? Probably not.

So where does this lead us to?
I think we should start linking Corner's threads to their Hide-out "brothers" when they exist (and vice-versa). And I think that's a mistake we probably done in some of the threads of the Oddball Corner that have a related one in the Hide-out.
If Wouter finds it suitable he can even make the Corner a part of the Hide-out. But I understand that it would leave the "classic cars" section a bit empty. So maybe, linking threads would be enough.