997 GT3 REALLY being driven

[MrKipling]

This bloke's a lord! There's a particular highlight about 1 minute in - it may well be Walter Rorhl, if it isn't he makes Tiff Needell look like well... me!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MXpnnjlwj7A&search=911%20gt3

[RazaBlade]

Thanks so much for that link!! The beauty of the car is it actually makes all of that look effortless! Superb

[jorismo]

Wow, that really is a great vid and an even greater car! :D Thanks so much! :)

[Jack_Bauer]

Good find Mr K. :)

Anyone reckon it might be the same German fella who did this video with the Carrera GT last year? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-PD9Z8DYqI0&search=carrera%20gt

Tim Schrick his name is. Seems to have a broadly similar driving style to the guy in the GT3 (ie sideways, a LOT! :D).

[Matra et Alpine]

wow, demonstrate how good an investment of £60K is by making it go round corners SLOWER :(

Sorry guys it "looks good" in the same way triple wings and a fart can makes a Honda "look good" in a F&F kind way :(

Drifting -- the new curse after ricing on REAL performance driving !!!

[Vaigra]

wow, demonstrate how good an investment of £60K is by making it go round corners SLOWER :(

Sorry guys it "looks good" in the same way triple wings and a fart can makes a Honda "look good" in a F&F kind way :(

Drifting -- the new curse after ricing on REAL performance driving !!!Was thinking the exact same thing.
I've noticed on 5th Gear it's all they're obsessed with. When testing the Gallardo SE, Plato said it wasn't easy to get sideways and that didn't make it a good car. It's not supposed to go sideways! He know's that yet he still puts across to less knowledgable viewers that sideways is somehow better. Also, isn't the fact that there isn't much chance of you getting the back end loose better for a day to day average driver than a car that the average driver will cause an accident in if trying to remotely push it?

[Matra et Alpine]

Not watched 5th gear for ages.
BUT it used to be Tiff Needell ( a legend in his own mind ) would chuck it around getting it sideways and drifting it and THEN when they went for the fast lap it was ALL much smoother and no show-boating.

[RazaBlade]

He was only doing it on the hairpins, and I always thought thats why they did the same in rally driving.... otherwise why do they not drive normally in that too?

[derekthetree]

Was thinking the exact same thing.
I've noticed on 5th Gear it's all they're obsessed with. When testing the Gallardo SE, Plato said it wasn't easy to get sideways and that didn't make it a good car. It's not supposed to go sideways! He know's that yet he still puts across to less knowledgable viewers that sideways is somehow better. Also, isn't the fact that there isn't much chance of you getting the back end loose better for a day to day average driver than a car that the average driver will cause an accident in if trying to remotely push it?

aah jason plato. god's greatest gift to the driving seat ;)

[Vaigra]

Not watched 5th gear for ages.
BUT it used to be Tiff Needell ( a legend in his own mind ) would chuck it around getting it sideways and drifting it and THEN when they went for the fast lap it was ALL much smoother and no show-boating.Yeah they both do it in the show-off laps, but when talking about the Gallardo, it's what he said that confused me. Why would you want to lose the back end easily? Surely it's better if the car sticks to the road better and doesn't swap the nose and tail so easily.

[Jack_Bauer]

He was only doing it on the hairpins, and I always thought thats why they did the same in rally driving.... otherwise why do they not drive normally in that too?

Rally drivers tend not to have the back end out at all on dry tarmac where possible. It's only on the slippery stuff that they purposely have the car sliding around. They might pop the handbrake for the REALLY tight hairpins, but the kind of wider hairpins that the Porsche driver was on a WRC driver would have all 4 wheels firmly nailed to the tarmac, ready to launch it out of the corner.

For what it's worth, I don't object to people drifting around. They aren't trying to go fast, that is not what it's about. It's about having fun and showing a bit of finesse and panache behind the wheel. Whilst it may not get you round a track or stage quickly, it DOES take a fair amount of driver skill to control a car beyond the limit like that.

[RazaBlade]

Thanks for the correction. It looked damn good going around, and even though he was throwing it around, it seemed very controlled.

[MrKipling]

That does annoy me about Fifth Gear - Top Gear may be 'totally irrelevant' but at least they're honest about it - Fifth Gear try to position themselves as a What Car type show, then they send Tiff round Anglesey to put superminis into stupid lift off oversteery type situations.

Still, do agree with you guys about the whole drifting thing in general, although when it's done in the manner that bloke does it (rather than the Carrera GT guy!) it does demonstrate incredible car control. He was so smooth - the slide round the hairpin was a perfect line - and, although he was undoubtedly showing off, he wasn't hanging around either! There was no 'bwaarp, bwaarp, bwaarp' type stuff, just lovely sweeping 911 style slides - great stuff - near as damn it as enjoyable as it would be to watch Walter hammer round the ring.

EDIT: The road does look damp in that vid in bits

[McReis]

Was thinking the exact same thing.
I've noticed on 5th Gear it's all they're obsessed with. When testing the Gallardo SE, Plato said it wasn't easy to get sideways and that didn't make it a good car. It's not supposed to go sideways! He know's that yet he still puts across to less knowledgable viewers that sideways is somehow better. Also, isn't the fact that there isn't much chance of you getting the back end loose better for a day to day average driver than a car that the average driver will cause an accident in if trying to remotely push it?

The point is that if you buy such car, you won't drive it like in a drift competition, but the rear bias ads fun to it. And when you know how to drive fast, having the possibility of throttle-steer a car is very welcome, and it can help a lap time if you can keep it around the limit.
What's the point of having an amazingly efficient car if it is no fun to drive?
That's what happens with some Impreza versions. They are bloddy fast and sound good, but they understeer more than a average FWD. In real-life what is more important: lap-time or fun?

[netburner]

Good find Mr K. :)

Anyone reckon it might be the same German fella who did this video with the Carrera GT last year? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-PD9Z8DYqI0&search=carrera%20gt

Tim Schrick his name is. Seems to have a broadly similar driving style to the guy in the GT3 (ie sideways, a LOT! :D).


Mr Schrick is working for Motorvision, a show in german tv station "DSF". This was AMS TV in "Vox", so it must be another driver. The magazine AMS TV is from the german car magazine Auto Motor und Sport, so they know how to drive cars and have enough good drivers (some are the same that do the magazine Sport Auto, famous for its Supertest ;) )

[PerfAdv]

Maybe there's some show-boating involved with the shooting of that vid but on demand oversteer has it's uses. Imagine heading toward a guardrail or cliff face, understeering. One solution; slam brakes to bring nose back in line or more elegant, a little power oversteer and the car's pointing the right way again.

[Clique]

Anyways the car does look amazing in white...
Alot of cars these days look good in white, eg. VW Golf GTI, All 997 911, Ford GT, etc

[LotusLocost]

aah jason plato. god's greatest gift to the driving seat ;)

lol..
In UK's CAR magazines top 10 BTCC moments # 4 was: "Williams BTCC boss Tim Newton assembled an entire Laguna from the panels Jason Plato dented, and dumped the result in his back garden"
:p

[Matra et Alpine]

IMHO Plato is a wanker.
He took the crown from Tiff as "driver most up his own arse" a few seasons back :D
He STILL plays the aggresive tit and blames it on everyone else or shrugs and says its "just racing" ... but anyone DARE to punt him off and he cries like a 2 year old !!!

[magracer]

Not to hijack the thread but I have a question on the trigger for a while now...

I haven't been able to identify Jason Plato's accent properly. It's quite different from any other presenter so I think it's not fancy "Londonish" (I call it "posh"), and it's certainly not Scotish. I know he is from Oxford, but I don't think his accent is from there, or is it?

[RazaBlade]

He STILL plays the aggresive tit and blames it on everyone else or shrugs and says its "just racing" ... but anyone DARE to punt him off and he cries like a 2 year old !!!
Well, being a former-F1 Champions brother is hard to live up to....

wait....

you werent talking about Ralf Schumacher?? :p

[Clique]

Not to hijack the thread but I have a question on the trigger for a while now...

I haven't been able to identify Jason Plato's accent properly. It's quite different from any other presenter so I think it's not fancy "Londonish" (I call it "posh"), and it's certainly not Scotish. I know he is from Oxford, but I don't think his accent is from there, or is it?
He doesnt seem to have the posh oxford accent...I am well placed to say that as i am from oxford...:D... and i think i have that posh sort of accent and his accent isnt like mine:confused:

[Matra et Alpine]

He doesnt seem to have the posh oxford accent...I am well placed to say that as i am from oxford...:D... and i think i have that posh sort of accent and his accent isnt like mine:confused:
yep, oxford born. Educated at Kings School in Tynemouth tho' - an expensive and relatively exclusive private school targetting to feed OxBridge.

[kingofthering]

lol..
In UK's CAR magazines top 10 BTCC moments # 4 was: "Williams BTCC boss Tim Newton assembled an entire Laguna from the panels Jason Plato dented, and dumped the result in his back garden"
:p
Where can i find pictures of the Laguna made from dented parts?

[LotusLocost]

Where can i find pictures of the Laguna made from dented parts?

lol...
I wish there was some.. and I had them...
But there was no picture of it in the CAR-magazine...
sorry mate, jason probably got rid of it as fast as it landed in his back yard..:)

[spi-ti-tout]

wow, demonstrate how good an investment of £60K is by making it go round corners SLOWER :(

Sorry guys it "looks good" in the same way triple wings and a fart can makes a Honda "look good" in a F&F kind way :(

Drifting -- the new curse after ricing on REAL performance driving !!!
The problem is I still can't understand what's wrong.

I think McReis's siggy was something about having fun with an Mk1 Golf standard-fitted with a "slippy diff", quoted from EVO. If people want to and are "acceptably allowed" to drift with small cars and have so much fun just why not something like the GT3? It has much more power so that would help a bit with the size of the drift and why take it so seriously on a fun weekend? True it's purpose built for going fast but there's no harm with drifting it when you get tired of just going fast.

I got annoyed with Clarkson when in the "Heaven and Hell '05" episode he went somewhere along the lines of, "And so if you want to have fun and go a bit fast while you're on a track, get the Monaro. If you just want to go fast, get yourself an EVO," which was probably BS because he was clearly having fun getting enormously sideways with the FQ400 in the initial show. Either way he indirectly noted many times (taking example of a "crazy" Zonda) supercars are to be had fun with once in a while otherwise they just become supermarket accessories. :D

[Matra et Alpine]

Agreed spi, BUT the title said "REALLY being driven" and it's not :D
It's being driven SLOWER than it could, BUT it's appalling to the F&F and drifting brigade who think slamming a car, adding fart cans locking up diffs and "Looking like the movies" is fast.

Actually a VERY fast car is totally NON-DRAMATIC :D
Blame Hollywood for creating that squealing tyres, sideways BS in every chase :D

For sure being able to occasionally stick it out there is fun.
But then it's not reflecting the performance of the car and it's nit being driven to it's limit.
The drifting fad is about getting the car to break traction at a LOWER limit than it would "normally".

It's like buying the best Aberdeen Angus steak and then putting it through the McDonalds mincer and "additives" machine. It's different, may be "fun" but it sure is something lesser than what was before ( hey my McDOnalds/Steak allegory is getting well used tonight :D )

[NSXType-R]

Great video! It's wonderful that someone drives it as it was meant to be.

[MrKipling]

Agreed spi, BUT the title said "REALLY being driven" and it's not :D

I disagree - if it had been someone Dritfting the car (note capital 'D'), I wouldn't have posted it - as you said, Matra, drifting is the 'art' of getting a car to go sideways far sooner than it should. He is just utterly hammering it - there's no doubt he's provoking it, but you couldn't say he was driving slowly! Slower than he could perhaps, but not drifting slow.

[derekthetree]

The problem is I still can't understand what's wrong.

I think McReis's siggy was something about having fun with an Mk1 Golf standard-fitted with a "slippy diff", quoted from EVO. If people want to and are "acceptably allowed" to drift with small cars and have so much fun just why not something like the GT3? It has much more power so that would help a bit with the size of the drift and why take it so seriously on a fun weekend? True it's purpose built for going fast but there's no harm with drifting it when you get tired of just going fast.

I got annoyed with Clarkson when in the "Heaven and Hell '05" episode he went somewhere along the lines of, "And so if you want to have fun and go a bit fast while you're on a track, get the Monaro. If you just want to go fast, get yourself an EVO," which was probably BS because he was clearly having fun getting enormously sideways with the FQ400 in the initial show. Either way he indirectly noted many times (taking example of a "crazy" Zonda) supercars are to be had fun with once in a while otherwise they just become supermarket accessories. :D

two points

1) mcreis was/is on about a mx5 not a golf :)

2) evo's don't normally drift as in the video IIRC. then tend to 4 wheel drift like a rally car due to the 4 wheel drive

[McReis]

Agreed spi, BUT the title said "REALLY being driven" and it's not :D
It's being driven SLOWER than it could, BUT it's appalling to the F&F and drifting brigade who think slamming a car, adding fart cans locking up diffs and "Looking like the movies" is fast.

I agree with you but also with MrKipling. While he might be showing off a bit, he's driving fast, braking late (something that didn't happen with the Carrera GT, wich is understandable because that's a monstruous car to be driven on such road.) and having fun at a level much above of the common driver.

But if we take it literally, THIS (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4525544514589748813&q=911+rallye) is a Porsche being REALLY driven. ;)

[spi-ti-tout]

Slower than he could perhaps, but not drifting slow.
Then is he really REALLY driving it? :)

I think Peter's point stands.


2) evo's don't normally drift as in the video IIRC. then tend to 4 wheel drift like a rally car due to the 4 wheel drive
You'll be surprised at how tail-happy they can get with 320+ bhp ;)

[McReis]

You'll be surprised at how tail-happy they can get with 320+ bhp ;)
And you'd be surprised at how much understeer they can offer. :)

[MrKipling]

Then is he really REALLY driving it? :)

Yes he is - just in a different way - the car is still being driven at the limit, he just dips in to the 'over the limit' margin every now and then. Watch him through the S bends after the big WRC style hairpin.

Oh yeah, I'm also called Peter - don't confuse me like that! :D

[derekthetree]

You'll be surprised at how tail-happy they can get with 320+ bhp ;)

they've got too much traction and grip to oversteer for long. they just grip again and understeer some more.

or you go so fast that all four wheels lose grip and you sldie round the corner in a four wheel drift

[McReis]

they've got too much traction and grip to oversteer for long. they just grip again and understeer some more.

or you go so fast that all four wheels lose grip and you sldie round the corner in a four wheel drift

That's the main difference between fun and efficience, and the reason why I don't love the EVO's, Subarus and such.

[PerfAdv]

Both the CGT and GT3 vids with drift-action got discussed and watched extensively. Mission accomplished. Granted in a race or even a backroads run without any spectators, unnecessary wagging of the tail isn't the fastest way around, but for a promo video it makes for some exciting footage.

In the purest performance sense the GT3 isn't being REALLY driven but it's driven almost competitively compared to how the CGT was experimented with. The CGT video was just a show of how completely controllable this 600 hp beast could be on a narrow mountain road.

[Zondaboy1]

very, very, very, awesome