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motorsportnerd
03-17-2004, 04:55 AM
In a similar vein to the "my favourite Group B car", nominate your favourite touring car from any current or past catagory (eg: Super Touring, Group A, Group 2, V8 Supercar, DTM, etc). Attach photos where possible. Note: NOT JGTC cars - they're GT cars.

Its a hard choice, what with Falcon BAs, Ford Sierra RS500, Ford Carpi RS3100, Mercedes 190E Evo 2 etc, but mine has to be the ulimate Group A car, the Nissan Skyline GTR.

And, yes Falc, I know you hated them, but some of else who saw them in action remember how awesome they were.

fpv_gtho
03-17-2004, 05:39 AM
im sure Falc saw this coming a mile away, but definately the BA Falcon V8 Supercar. One of the most dominant Ford V8 Supercars ever produced, couple with the up and rising Ambrose. Ford won 9 of 13 rounds last year and 6 of those round wins went to Ambrose, with another 2 of them going to Ambrose's team mate

the real deal
03-17-2004, 07:18 AM
The best touring car has to be the Opel Calibra ITC car driven by Manuel Reuter (dont no if spelt right) ive seen it in action at Goodwood in 2003 and it is quick as anything on the track today. would give the new vectra GTS DTM a run for its money!:)

the real deal
03-17-2004, 07:21 AM
im sure Falc saw this coming a mile away, but definately the BA Falcon V8 Supercar. One of the most dominant Ford V8 Supercars ever produced, couple with the up and rising Ambrose. Ford won 9 of 13 rounds last year and 6 of those round wins went to Ambrose, with another 2 of them going to Ambrose's team mate


Sorry m8. i agree that the car was fantastic last year. but did you see the results from the first race of this year? Race 1 winner: Holden. Race 2 winner: Holden. Race 3 winner: Holden. a clean sweep of the weekend. Not bad for a team owned by GM! :p

(picture of the HRT team not of winning car)

henk4
03-17-2004, 08:30 AM
This is a hard question, as I have to cover about 40 years of actively watching touring cars, and of course you got the best memories of the ones that you saw when younger.
So here are a few: The Mini Cooper 1300S, audibly fighting understeer (pictured is a rallye version but they are amazing on track)
The Shelby Cobra 350GT, very fast on the straights, but most of the time needing the whole straight to brake on time for the next corner,
The BMW Batmobile, which dominated the first half of the 1970's. (The picture shows a non-original replica)
There are more, such as the Alfa GTA, the Lotus Cortina and the Abarth 1000 TCR, also the Jaguar MkII and even the Ford Galaxie 500.

byronleehk
03-17-2004, 09:31 AM
My favoriate has always been the M3 GTR, M3, 320i & the 318is from BTCC, ETCC, DTM & ALMS.

The road version costs $229,000. :(

Mustang
03-17-2004, 09:44 AM
i like all of the DTM or V8 supercars, think that id go for the V8 falcon though.

fpv_gtho
03-17-2004, 11:47 PM
Sorry m8. i agree that the car was fantastic last year. but did you see the results from the first race of this year? Race 1 winner: Holden. Race 2 winner: Holden. Race 3 winner: Holden. a clean sweep of the weekend. Not bad for a team owned by GM! :p

(picture of the HRT team not of winning car)

Well since the rules state that manufacturers cant own teams competing, its technically not teams owned by GM winning. FPR are fully run by Prodrive and HRT were fully under the control of TWR. The Melbourne track is better suited to the aero package on the Commodore's so thats why the top 10 was dominated by Holdens. That race also was a non championship round and simply just a support round for the Formula one, so all the teams were only going at around 80%. Jason Bright did manage to take a clean sweep of the weekends racing, but both he and Marcos Ambrose in my books were the fastest over the course of the weekend. over the course of 10 laps in the final race Ambrose made a fine comback by climbing 19 places, although would it have been a championship round, not only would the race had been longer but people wouldn't have given up the road without a little push and shove

the real deal
03-18-2004, 01:46 AM
Well since the rules state that manufacturers cant own teams competing, its technically not teams owned by GM winning. FPR are fully run by Prodrive and HRT were fully under the control of TWR. The Melbourne track is better suited to the aero package on the Commodore's so thats why the top 10 was dominated by Holdens. That race also was a non championship round and simply just a support round for the Formula one, so all the teams were only going at around 80%. Jason Bright did manage to take a clean sweep of the weekends racing, but both he and Marcos Ambrose in my books were the fastest over the course of the weekend. over the course of 10 laps in the final race Ambrose made a fine comback by climbing 19 places, although would it have been a championship round, not only would the race had been longer but people wouldn't have given up the road without a little push and shove

i agree with you on that one. but it must be a kick in balls that neither of the cars are run by Australian teams. TWR or Tom Walkinshaw Racing. thats a british outfit. And Prodrive. Well thats just probably the most successful british racing team that we have. seen the Subaru WRC last year and even this year in mexico. the second day was dominated by subaru. Then theres BAR, and the most importaint car that Prodrive has made in my opinion, the Ferrari 550 maranello GTS class winner at LeMans in 2003 and the most dominant car in the FIA Gt series in 2003! And of course the new Ford Falcon V8. :p
Up the Brits!

fpv_gtho
03-18-2004, 01:55 AM
Well all the money is in the British outfits. 888 Race Engineering and Prodrive have some of the biggest cheque books in Motorsport and the former TWR would still be around, had it not gone crazy funding the Arrows F1 team. The British aren't that bad a choice though when you look into it. With their experience in BTCC and DTM, WRC and F1 they certainly know when theyre wasting money and when they aren't. Still though we aren't without high budget locally owned V8 Supercar teams. SBR are probably the best team in the country on an engineering basis, and if not that then at least for a Ford team they are. Perkins Engineering, Garry Rogers Motorsport and Dick Johnson Motorsport are all top quality teams with hardly a shortage of money and have recently been converting money into results on the track. HRT are in the mix there but i dont know whether they've settled down after losing TWR. You would say that they would, but Mark Skaife taking the budren of being the top driver for the team as well as team owner is sure to give way somewhere, be it in his driving or in his business skills, he may be just using this season to get used to a full season of owning the team.

the real deal
03-18-2004, 02:13 AM
I agree with everything that you have just said there but. you have to admit that without the input that Prodrive have put into the Ford cars it would still be a Holden cleen sweep as it was in 2002. and the Opel Calibra ITC is still the best Touring Car.

17-20 :p

fpv_gtho
03-18-2004, 02:19 AM
Well in total from last yeras season, Ford took 9 round wins form 13. only 1 of those Round wins for Ford were actually to the Prodrive owned FPR, the other 8 all went to SBR. Alot of people say that pre2003 its been Holden dominance, but the opinion of the racers is just its been an HRT dominance, and that its not just the Ford teams not been able to preak their dominance at many tracks. Given that and Greg Murphy finishing higher than Mark Skaife, had Ford of failde to win last year, HRT still wouldn't have won so i think their dominance is clearly broken

Falcon500
03-18-2004, 03:04 AM
Well I saw the skylines but the main reason was the group A rules favored high technology and small engines so that wasnt exactly fair on the local competition...there was no titt for tatt that groupC had...
as for my i loved the group C era all cars had strenghts and weaknesses so the flacon or holden which won the season usually struggled at say winton raceway for example....To be honest i wouldent say i have anyparticular faveorites there are a few i like and no modern v8 supercars are there....the catigory is too controlled...i like the raceing and all but i would rather something that are turly production based...
I would of added a raceing holden torana but i dont actually have a pic of one.....

Coventrysucks
04-07-2004, 04:17 PM
My favorite is the car that represents the absolute pinnacle of Touring car technology, the Class 1 Mercedes Benz C klasse DTM.

Introduced in 1994, it incorperated many features from F1.
A 2.5 litre V6, mounted very low behind the front axles, which revved to 12000 rpm, producing 500bhp at 11500rpm, and 300nm torque.
Transmission was through a six speed sequential 'box, driving the rear wheels through a sophisticated tracion control, which allowed the Mercedes to keep ahead of its 4wd opponents, even in the wet.
The lightweight chassis with extensive use of carbonfibre weighed a paltry 1052kg, giving the car a top speed of 200mph.
The car also adopted F1 style active suspension, and Bosch racing ABS systems.
Competing against the 4 wheel drive Alfa Romeo 155 and Opel Calibra, Bernd Schneider took the car to two DTM championships in 1994, and 1995, before moving on to the ITC in 1996.
Unfortunately due to the huge expenditure by the teams the Class 1 championships were cancelled for 1997, but Mercedes put their knowledge into the highly sucessful CLK GTR

Please excuse the pic of a model, but I haven't found any decent pics of it around,

Mustang
04-15-2004, 10:19 AM
a DTM pic

DasModell
04-16-2004, 02:53 PM
Alfa Romeo 155 V6 Ti, 1600GTA, 156 Group A, 156 S2000 :)
Volvo S40 and 850
Peugeot 406(STW car with Aiello)
and a few more

stratos
04-16-2004, 02:58 PM
Alfa Romeu 156 !!!! is my favorite ;)

dangermouse
08-17-2004, 08:18 AM
Am quite partial to the Audi A4 DTM myself, but dont really know a favourite

ahmadaries
08-17-2004, 03:31 PM
Belive it or not i made 222 km/h on grand prix gt 2004

satgsm
09-08-2004, 07:10 AM
the best is for scort cosworth t35

IWantAnAudiRS6
09-08-2004, 09:16 AM
My favourite touring car is the one I have a picture of on my wall- the picture is signed by Jason Plato :D, and is a Renault Laguna in green. The shape before the newest one. My second favourite is the Honda Civic Type-R one...awesome! :D

kko
09-08-2004, 01:45 PM
can we put a deffinition on touring car :confused:

but if i understand than i say the mini also, pics of the wheels comming up on turn ...awsome

Ferrari Tifosi
09-08-2004, 02:28 PM
My favorite is the Realtime Acura TSX, raced in the Speed World Touring Challenge. Cool little car that thing is.

motorsportnerd
09-09-2004, 05:35 AM
can we put a deffinition on touring car :confused:

but if i understand than i say the mini also, pics of the wheels comming up on turn ...awsome

Its difficult to have a set in concrete definition. But, loosely, a "touring car" can be defined as a racing car with opening doors, a place where the back seat should be and a roof. The competing cars in the various catagories have to be based on mass production, front engine, sedans, hatches and coupes. Rear engine and mid-engined cars and low volume cars are classified in motorsport terms under various GT catagories. The reference to "opening doors" keeps NASCARs and other catagories where the cars use only the silhouette of the road car out of the definition.
There is some flexibility with the definition. This particularly concerns some GT catagory cars. For example, the FIA GT-N catagory cars could in theory be regarded as touring cars provided the road version is built in sufficient quantities. The Porsche 911 GT3, however, is rear engined, and touring cars historically have been front engined. In the 1960s, Porsche 911 were allowed to compete in various touring car catagories, but were invariably too successful. The easiest way to ban them was to outlaw rear engined cars and say that the back seats were useless. Since then Porsche 911 have competed in GT catagories.
Another marginal example of touring cars are the both the current and the mid 1990s DTM cars. They are almost silhouette cars. By this I mean that there is a fairly standardised chassis/suspension/floorplan in use and a body which looks like a Mercedes C-Class, Audi A4 or Opel Vetra is dropped on top. And it is not a production body. Each section can be quickly removed. However, the doors on the cars do open, they are the same size and length as the road car and they are regarded by most motorsport followers as touring cars.
Another factor to consider is that touring cars can be either highly or slightly modified and do not necessarily have to share mechanical components with the road cars.

I would suggest that any car which complies with the following sets of current and past rules qualifies as a touring car:

FIA Group 1 and 2 (1960s/70s)
FIA Group A (1980s)
FIA Group N (1980s to current)
FIA Super Touring (1992 to 2001)
FIA Super Production (1996 to 2001)
FIA Super 2000 (2002 to current)
British BTC (2001 to current)
British Group 1 (1960s/70s)
DTM Group 1 (1990s)
DTM V8s (2000 to current)
CAMS (Australian) Series Production (1960 to 1973)
CAMS Group C (1973 to 1984)
CAMS V8 Supercar (1993 to current)
Speed World Challenge (US - 1990 to current)
The various SCCA and IMSA production car catagories.
Argentinian TC2000 (current)
SCCA Trans Am (1960s to mid 1970s) The current Trans Ams are silhouette racers which nothing in common with the road cars except the shape, plus the doors don't open.

Also, cars meeting the rules for various French, Japanese, German, South African, South American, New Zealand, etc national championships would qualify.

Each of the above catagories have different rules. Roughly, DTMs, V8 Supercar and Super Touring cars are all highly modified touring cars retaining only slight links to the road cars. In the case of V8 Supercar and Super Touring the body shell and floor plan of the road car are retained and not much else.
The other catagories are/were much less modified and have much more links to the road cars (including the same suspension, engine size and type).

So, you asked if a Mini was acceptable to be classified as a Touring Car. Yes it is. It was eligible for British Group 1 rules, Australian Series Production and Group C rules, and FIA Group 1 and 2 rules.

Cotterik
09-09-2004, 08:51 AM
I realy love the Falcon V8, but i dont realy follow dtm or anything like that so im gona choose by looks, The Audi TT DTM looks amazing!

kko
09-09-2004, 01:04 PM
Wow thanks alot Motorsportnerd!

Olli
09-10-2004, 02:49 AM
I deffinitely say the Mercedes CLK DTM

http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/frame.php?file=car.php&carnum=1295

forza_autodelta
03-18-2005, 09:18 AM
Alfa Romeo 155 V6 Ti, 1600GTA, 156 Group A, 156 S2000 :)
Volvo S40 and 850
Peugeot 406(STW car with Aiello)
and a few more
ah!I have find a fan of alfa, my favorites are the 155 TI too , the GTA junior, the Sprint 1300 Zagato and the M3 GTR

italianspirit
03-25-2005, 06:11 PM
I like: The Mercedes CLK DTM
Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution VII
Suzuki Escudo
And Cadillac CTS-V

Coventrysucks
03-25-2005, 07:08 PM
I like: The Mercedes CLK DTM
Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution VII
Suzuki Escudo
And Cadillac CTS-V

1 out of 4 isn't too bad I suppose

Better than 0 anyways...

Spastik_Roach
03-26-2005, 12:42 AM
Probably the BMW CSL Batmobile. That car looks so friggin fantastic.

SlickHolden
03-26-2005, 01:26 AM
I like the VZ HRT. But think someone got it wrong when making the VZ grill and VY lower front into it. Also like the VT.
http://www.theage.com.au/ffximage/2005/03/06/wbMOTOskaife_narrowweb__200x270.jpg
http://www.users.on.net/~nweber/commodore/racing/hrt/images/tiny/hrt99-1-01.jpg http://www.users.on.net/~nweber/commodore/racing/hrt/images/tiny/hrt99-2-01.jpg

italianspirit
03-26-2005, 06:39 AM
1 out of 4 isn't too bad I suppose

Better than 0 anyways...

what is the only touring car?

Coventrysucks
03-26-2005, 10:15 AM
The Evo isn't a touring car
The Mercedes is a touring car
The Cadillac... I have no idea what that is doing.
Suzuki Escudo definately isn't a touring car.

Touring cars are usually production based series with 4 door saloon cars.

Mustang
03-26-2005, 10:27 AM
The Cadillac... I have no idea what that is doing.


might of been wtcc or gt1 le-mans

Coventrysucks
03-26-2005, 10:34 AM
might of been wtcc or gt1 le-mans

AFAIK it hasn't been raced.

Maybe some dodgy American series...

Mustang
03-26-2005, 10:37 AM
AFAIK it hasn't been raced.

Maybe some dodgy American series...

probably but im sure ive seen pics of it racing somewhere

but maybee not

http://www.cadillac.com/images/models/ctsv/ctsv_img_mast.jpg

lukeh
03-26-2005, 11:06 AM
I will be doing a practical with a dtm team next week so im so happy. But dtm and group A is my favourite.
p.s dont let to many Australian see this thread other wise they will be arguing about holden and ford for eva. TRUST ME!!

motorsportnerd
03-28-2005, 06:37 AM
The Evo isn't a touring car
The Mercedes is a touring car
The Cadillac... I have no idea what that is doing.
Suzuki Escudo definately isn't a touring car.

Touring cars are usually production based series with 4 door saloon cars.

Actually, only the Suzuki isn't a touring car. The other three each comply with some current touring car series regulations.
The Mits Evo is raced in the Australian production based Australian Performance Car Championship (see http://www.performanceracing.net.au/index.asp). See attached picture. Evos are also raced in various Japanese Touring Car catagories.
The Cadillac is raced in the US Speed World Challenge Series (see http://www.world-challenge.com/) - which perhaps is marginal as a touring car championship since it allows GT cars like the Viper and 911, but it is a production based series and favours 4-door sedans like the Cadillac and the Audi RS6.

Matra et Alpine
03-28-2005, 07:31 AM
HAS to be the Volvo 850 estate.

JUST because of the lunacy of managing to win with a BRICK :)

http://www.swedespeed.com/news/uploads/motorsport/001__scaled_600.jpg

He coudl carry the teams picnic lunch and furntiture too :)

DasModell
03-28-2005, 10:17 AM
Lammers and Rydell if i remember corectly :D what a car

lukeh
03-28-2005, 10:30 AM
[QUOTE=Matra et Alpine
He coudl carry the teams picnic lunch and furntiture too :)[/QUOTE]

Wonder how the Picnic Lunch would look and tastle like after the race. :(

Matra et Alpine
03-28-2005, 12:22 PM
Wonder how the Picnic Lunch would look and tastle like after the race. :(
Bashed and shaken - Rydell had a bit of a "reputation" :)

forza_autodelta
03-29-2005, 12:00 AM
hey, it wasn't the last car to spend the finish line:D

henk4
03-29-2005, 12:05 AM
HAS to be the Volvo 850 estate.

JUST because of the lunacy of managing to win with a BRICK :)

He coudl carry the teams picnic lunch and furntiture too :)

It would prabably not help much with the volvo, but the estate version may have better aerodynamics. I know of certain estates.... Just imagine the downforce generated by the extended roof :D

DasModell
03-29-2005, 12:12 AM
can't find a pic or vid of Rydell's monster crash . :D

Matra et Alpine
03-29-2005, 02:34 AM
can't find a pic or vid of Rydell's monster crash . :D
WHich one ?
I remmeber Burt crashing the big Volvo back in 85 but not Rydell.
Was it that one ??

DasModell
03-29-2005, 03:44 AM
95 ?? it might be the same one .
he went sideways in the tyre barrier ... BIG BIG accident .

motorsportnerd
03-30-2005, 12:39 AM
Must be the one that Burt had - I don't remember Rydell crashing that heavily during the Volvo era.

Matra et Alpine
03-30-2005, 05:40 AM
Yeah, May 96 at Oulton Park. 100mph MAJOR crash at Cascades.
http://www.supertouring.co.uk/the_crashes/burt_11.jpg

Volvo driver Kelvin Burt escaped with only minor injuries after this 7.6g impact just 10 laps into the first race at the Cheshire circuit. Burt was battling for 5th slot with the Renault of Alain Menu, and had tried to pass on several occasions on the previous lap.

Then, going into the fast downhill Cascades at the start of lap 11, Burt got alongside the Renault on the outside of the corner. The unsighted Menu ran wide and the two cars touched, pushing Burt onto the grass at over 100mph. From then on Burt was just a passenger, as the Volvo skidded across the grass towards the edge of the Armco barriers.

Luckily for Burt, the car impacted on the passenger side, which saved him from more serious injury, but the force of the impact still knocked him unconscious for over 15 minutes. The race was stopped while rescue teams cut Burt from his car, and he was taken to the circuits medical center where he regained consciousness. No series injuries were found, but he was air lifted to the local hospital for further checks overnight. Burt returned to racing after sitting out the next event, but it took him a while to regain he pre-accident pace.

from www.supertouring.co.uk

http://www.supertouring.co.uk/the_crashes/burt_1.jpg http://www.supertouring.co.uk/the_crashes/burt_2.jpg http://www.supertouring.co.uk/the_crashes/burt_3.jpg http://www.supertouring.co.uk/the_crashes/burt_4.jpg

Matra et Alpine
03-30-2005, 05:40 AM
http://www.supertouring.co.uk/the_crashes/burt_5.jpg http://www.supertouring.co.uk/the_crashes/burt_6.jpg http://www.supertouring.co.uk/the_crashes/burt_7.jpg http://www.supertouring.co.uk/the_crashes/burt_8.jpg http://www.supertouring.co.uk/the_crashes/burt_9.jpg


Thre was more carnage that day.One for the Audi lovers :)
http://www.stillphotography.co.uk/gallery/albums/album29/btcc96_02.jpg

henk4
03-30-2005, 05:48 AM
that was not the estate though. Downforce would have kept it on the track :)

What has become of Bintcliffe btw, never heard or seen anything from him after one Audi season

DasModell
03-30-2005, 12:16 PM
that's the accident . it was probably in my "first year" of Motorsport . so don't remember all the details . i was 14 at the time :D
the first photo also reminded me of the Williams Laguna's .. with Alain Menu . and can't rememeber the second driver . was it Radisich ?? . when one went on the inside one on the outside of a car . al three cars involved in a minor accident . but the renault hit eachother nose to nose . it was rather funny for the race to end for them like that .

Matra et Alpine
03-30-2005, 02:30 PM
Thruxton - ( can't find Oulton, but that season most starts ended up like this :) )
http://www.stillphotography.co.uk/gallery/albums/album29/btcc96_01.jpg

DasModell
03-31-2005, 05:18 AM
thank u . :D