Opinions on BA Falcon and VY Commodore design

[Kossy]

Personally, I think Holden have done a reasonable job at updating from the VX. The new one is nowhere near as pretty, but it was a pretty big job to make a fresh looking design on the old body, so I dont critise the VY design. Nothing tops the old SS design though.

As for the BA. Kudos Ford! Top looking car. Its just this sort of maufacturing thatll give you an edge on Holden. Its good to see that the Ford is neck and neck with Holden atm because competition is healthy for the consumer.

[fpv_gtho]

many holdebn supporters are arguing that ford came out with an overall better car than holden cause they spent twice as much money on it, but many reviewers are saying fords $500mil went further than holdens $250mil, or pretty much, holden was wasting their money a bit. the BA falcon is also not just an external update unlike the VY, where the BA has practically a new rear end, vastly updated 6 and 2 new v8's, unlike holdens almost identical mechanics carrying over. many of the things coming for the VZ commodore are things that should be here now, like the gen4 and the hfv6, but just like the introduction of the gen3, holden cant get their stuff ready on time

[badboybarge]

i've never really been a big fan of either holden or fords, i am a bmw person, but the new fords r looking really really good, and there's only 1 holden that i like, the only prob is that it's a concept, but it's damn hot.
here it is...

[badboybarge]

and another one...

[Kossy]

Originally posted by fpv_gtho
many holdebn supporters are arguing that ford came out with an overall better car than holden cause they spent twice as much money on it, but many reviewers are saying fords $500mil went further than holdens $250mil, or pretty much, holden was wasting their money a bit. the BA falcon is also not just an external update unlike the VY, where the BA has practically a new rear end, vastly updated 6 and 2 new v8's, unlike holdens almost identical mechanics carrying over. many of the things coming for the VZ commodore are things that should be here now, like the gen4 and the hfv6, but just like the introduction of the gen3, holden cant get their stuff ready on time I did say design wise.

[fpv_gtho]

well holden obviously didnt do much research on what australians liked design wise

[fpv_gtho]

one of my friends reckons the vy headlights looks like cat eyes

[crisis]

Originally posted by fpv_gtho
well holden obviously didnt do much research on what australians liked design wise
They didnt do bad. Sales are still strong. I think the SS and HSV models look better than the VX etc. Sharper and more agressive. The stock execs are a bit ordinary though. The series II Calais looks good.

[fpv_gtho]

most base level cars are normal looking, but they should have made it look a bit more interesting, since buyers are drifting away from the base level cars and going for more luxurious models. what do ur eckon theyre gunna do for the vz? anything serious or just the same as between vt and vx?

[crisis]

I think it may look something along the lines of the Vectra, for better or worse. A lot of manufacturers seem to be going for a generic look across their rang a la BMW etc. Look a Toyota and Mitsubishi (although not for too long).

[fpv_gtho]

it will still have to look similar to the vy though wont it?

[Falcon500]

icant see why holden would change it too much since their current body style has sold so very well and its quite recognizable and to me any ways looks very generic

[fpv_gtho]

for VZ, it would cost too much as well to change the design of more than the headlights and grilles etc

[Falcon500]

well their putting a lot of moeny in the new lumop i cant see why not go all the way the current floorplan is the same as the VNs apprently

[fpv_gtho]

lumop? and i think the first fully australian designed commodore was the vt, which still shares architecture with the opel omega i think

[Falcon500]

Lump sorry and it would share somthing with the opel omega if its still anythig like the VN which you can apprently put a 6 speeder in no worries al you need is one new hole and a few minor mechanicals apprently its that easy to do it too a VK as well ive heard even more storie just then that the VK is same floor plan i dont know if that ones true or not

[fpv_gtho]

nah the vn had nothing to do with the vk, they were based off two different opels. the omega came out about 92-93 so realistically, anything after the vr commo could only be based on it

[Falcon500]

well any ways its an aging design so holden show us waht you got

[fpv_gtho]

chev already did, the ss concept showed at the last detroit motor show

[Falcon500]

well what are they doing sitting on their hands? lets see it in action!

[fpv_gtho]

did u miss the part where i said that it was only a concept, plus its not 2006 yet

[Falcon500]

did you miss the part where i said are they sitting on their hands? time is not GMs friend right now time is of the essance its about time they make a change to the commadore

[fpv_gtho]

gawd do u expect design miracles to happen in 6 months or sumtin, the normal time length for each chassis is 8 years u know, and within that 8 years, they cant stay too far from the vt design

[Falcon500]

ah yes but as i said its long past VT which still too many traces to VN if you can share part between an 88 model and a 03 model i think its time is fast running out...

[fpv_gtho]

the vt chassis still has a godd 2-3 years in it, and **** you, you got me deffending a bloody holden. the only australian car in need of a new chassis in the bloody magna. thats been around since 96

[crisis]

The Magna needs to be turned around so that the rear wheels drive.

[fpv_gtho]

yeah but onyl ford oz an holden have a clue to making rwd cars comfortable

[crisis]

When it comes to every day driving, front wheel drive cars are fine. I had a Camry which was comfortable and ideal for everyday driving. Boring though. If you have any power you definitely want it through the back wheels. Even the japs build them like that when they're serious.

[fpv_gtho]

yeah but the japs dont tend to make serious cars out of bread and butter cars like ford and holden do

[crisis]

Originally posted by fpv_gtho
yeah but the japs dont tend to make serious cars out of bread and butter cars like ford and holden do
Skyline springs to mind but I know what you mean.

[fpv_gtho]

whats the base skyline now, a single turbo, 2.5L GTS-T, thats still pretty hardcore

[crisis]

What I mean is the Skyline started life as a bread and butter car and ended, in two door from, as you say, a pretty hard core sports car. I had a sedan about 10 or so years ago when they were being distributed domestically by Nissan. Not a bad sedan but nothing special.

[fpv_gtho]

id expect it wouldve been better than the commodores and falcons of the day though

[crisis]

Build wise, ride wise maybe. It was very smooth and quiet. It had the same motor as the then current VL.

[fpv_gtho]

yeah the only decent 6 cylinder holdens ever had in the commodore

[crisis]

When the Ecotech V6 was introduced it was a good motor if a little rough on idle. Its dated now. Id rather that motor than the Nissan though.

[fpv_gtho]

the ecotec v6 came out in the VS, which wasnt that long ago

[crisis]

It was a modification of the original Buick V6 though.

[fpv_gtho]

it was still all iron and pushrod compared to fords ohc, alloy head straight six

[crisis]

Comparisons aside it was good enough in its day.

[fpv_gtho]

yeah but its day isnt today

[crisis]

enter the HPV6

[fpv_gtho]

HFV6

[crisis]

absolutely

[fpv_gtho]

yeah well holden hasnt come up with a decent 6 by themselves yet. the hfv6 is a GM developed engine simply being produced here

[Falcon500]

well at least it creates jobs and give holden a decent donk to put in their car.The thing im wondering about is what ever did happen to holdens idea of making a 239 kw turbo v6?

[fpv_gtho]

more like it was saabs idea and holden also wanted the engine

[Falcon500]

well i done a little more reading and apprently holden has jumped off that band wagon for now but they think itll be a viable option in the fore seeable future not that their was anything wrong with the superchaging they offerd....

[fpv_gtho]

yeah right there was nothing wrong with it. ud expect a supercharger would produce more than 20-30kw, they werent running as little boost as the xr6t, it had about 10psi

[Falcon500]

for a stock non performance application that isnt too bad that v6 is not a performance motor its just built to pull holdens base model barges and to add a little sportier flavor to its dull v6 range

[fpv_gtho]

it was a performance motor, hsv used it in the xu6 and chev used it in the monte carlo ss. only trucks come with compressors on the motors for reasons other than performance

[Falcon500]

You couldent call it performance sporty maybey but in the whale of a HSV its just a ****ing heavy commadore S.

[fpv_gtho]

it wasnt that heavy, only about 1600kg. they marketed it as an entry level hsv, but at $50K it stood no chance against the xr6t so they dropped it. they should have stuck the 180kw version in the s supercharged

[Falcon500]

No its not that heavy people claim my XY falcons a tank and it only weighs 1300! the Xu6 was alsways a limp wristed things which they had trouble giving away! That would of prbably been the reson why they ditched it they were always slower then XR6s even since the first of both came out in about 93-94.

[fpv_gtho]

the xu6 wasnt slow, i think ive seen one do 0-100km/h in about 7.0 secs, which an xr6 hasnt beaten. they ditched it cause ford released the xr6 turbo which even with only 6 psi coming from the hairdryer would have ruined the xu6's image

[crisis]

XR6s and S commodores are really just show cars. If you want perfomance you wont worry with a 6 unless its turbo'd, you buy a V8.

[fpv_gtho]

people who'd wanna severly tune the car up aftermarket would choose the 6 ova the boss v8

[crisis]

Why would Holden reinvent the wheel. I cant understand why Ford doesnt use a US sourced finished product. The company is better of spending the developement bucks in one area than spreading it over a heap of subsidiaries.

[fpv_gtho]

maybe its just me but that last post of urs seems a bit off topic

[crisis]

Originally posted by fpv_gtho
maybe its just me but that last post of urs seems a bit off topic
No its just me. I read the previous page. However back on topic I would rather spend $10000 on a supercharger for a V8 than for a V6. Further to that with the power available in the V8 you may not need more. What am I saying!

[fpv_gtho]

yeah but if u saw the extra engine room in an xr6 compared to an xr8, ud see why someone might choose the xr6 if they were interested in aftermarket tuning.

[crisis]

These days aftermarket tuning comes down to exhausts, induction, and computer chips which you mostly cant alter. You can fit a turbo or supercharger under the bonnet of any V8.

[fpv_gtho]

yeah try fitting a turbo on a BAXR8

[Falcon500]

Well that was one of teh ideas behind the BA HO tboed or suoper charged.

[fpv_gtho]

no ones gunna buy a turbo HO, ford were worried about putting a turbo on the xr6

[Falcon500]

Are they the XR6 is out selling their expectations and they have many many orders taken place. And why not turbo a HO? id rather a super charger but turbos are ok.

[fpv_gtho]

the xr6 turbo is selling so well cause its 6 grand cheaper than the xr8, is fords 2nd fastest model ever released and has the same interior as the xr8. its also popular cause of the big arse turbo ford put on to get rid of lag when they put 6 psi in it

[Falcon500]

So much potential so hello to the VLs repalcemnet.

[fpv_gtho]

thats all we need, another cult australian made car

[Falcon500]

Yeah it could be good it could be bad all depends on how you look at it.

[fpv_gtho]

its gunna bring alot of aftermarket tuning attention to the 6

[Falcon500]

Exactly and if a lot of comapnys are going to jump on that band wagon theyll be trying to out do each other so theirll be very compatativeprices also.the only thing im not look foreward too is seeming them being dropped on their guts and given chamelian paint jobs.

[fpv_gtho]

seeing them dropped ont heir guts isnt a worry, the chamelon paint jobs are, but at $1000 a litre, i dont think many people r gunna be getting them

[Falcon500]

Oh how little you know. We localy have like 8! WOGs whos parents pay for the whole lot and they drive the cars on a dayly basis too. And as for been dropped on their guts i ment it quite literly so low they fail the coke can test!

[fpv_gtho]

the only falcons ive seen with chameleon paint jobs are in street machine, probably cause of the area i live in

[Falcon500]

Its strange they arnt as individual when you see a few like that.

[fpv_gtho]

how about a paint job like this

[Falcon500]

Well its diffrent though id prefer it in the metallic blue they offer.

[fpv_gtho]

i showed it cause we were talkin bout expensive paint jobs, it didnt have anything to do with the fact it was on a mustang. heres another expensive paint job

[Falcon500]

I know and i was saying i dodnt like it that much but that last pic is just off :(

[fpv_gtho]

its a $40,000 paint job apparently

[Falcon500]

Well I dont think it was wisely spent.

[fpv_gtho]

yeah well its only supposed to catch the attention of people walking past it, which i think it would easily do

[Falcon500]

I guess but out of me it gets a :confused:

[fpv_gtho]

yeah well whateva works and gets attention