PDA

View Full Version : F1 - 2004 Round 3 (Bahrain)



Misho
03-22-2004, 06:37 PM
I was just looking at diagrams of all the 18 F1 racing tracks to be used this year. What struck me the most was the desing of the third round's track in Manama, Bahrain. There are limitless possibilities to over take !! There are 3 straight long stretches of road together with a smaller, yet still considerably long, segment. Engines will be the most significant winning factor in this race. So will it be another win for Ferrari ?? We know that it will be hot and it will not rain !! I also read that the expected average speed on this track is around 210 km/hr !! ;)

Deckard
03-22-2004, 08:48 PM
Yes, it does look like that there are plenty of places to overtake, but I guess we'll only really know once the cars hit the track and see where they're slow.

My concern with the track is that first corner/hairpin. I wouldn't be a bit surprised if there was a pile up there on the first lap.

I think that McLaren will struggle there since if they have to rev limit they're engine because it's not getting enough air than the hot climate is not going to do it any good. Ferrari do seem to have a solid engine but they are on Bridgestones, and while they performed well enough at Malaysia. It wasn't as hot as expected and I suspect that the Michelins are still the superior tyre in really hot conditions.

Time will tell.
I can't wait.

the real deal
03-23-2004, 03:39 AM
The track looks like it will be a good race, there are a mixture of turns with 4 main straights. shud be good to watch. dont think schumy will have it all his own way i think we cud be up for a few suprises! :eek:

Matra et Alpine
03-23-2004, 03:58 AM
I'm not so sure of the opportunities for overtaking.
Wide tracks and long straights present good overtaking areas when the tarmac is 'virign'. As the racing line picks up rubber and the off-line gets covered in marbles then it actually becomes harder to overtake - even though there is more space !
If you go off the racing line, you are disadvantaged :(
The unknown in Bahrain is how much sand will find it's way onto the track duriin the race. If there is significant amounts then it will make the off-line areas of the track even slippier and traction ( durign acceleration and braking ) worse.
I think we'll see a few exit-rear as folks try to overtake coming into those corners.
Dont' know what the traps are like, if they're shallow/dense then maybe it'll be OK as they can return. If they're soft ( likely ) then we'll lose lots of cars nad it will be boring.
I wonder what the engine manufacturers will do about filtering the air ?
Another thought I had was if the radiators are strong enough to withstand sand-blasting or if they'll need filters too.
Shame that these are what may make the race interesting and not the drivers and cars :)
Saw Jackie Stewart back in the Ford/Jaguar pit last weekend - maybe they'll improve again :)

Misho
03-23-2004, 07:36 AM
from my knowledge of middle eastern geography, i dont think that sand will be much of an issue in Manama. it is the insanely high humidity percentages that will probably cause more of a threat to the drivers. let's just hope noone of the drivers gets a sun-stroke !! :)

for those of u who live in Canada and probably dont know what it is, a sun-stroke is the hot weather equivelant of frost-bite !! :)

Matra et Alpine
03-23-2004, 08:25 AM
from my knowledge of middle eastern geography, i dont think that sand will be much of an issue in Manama.
Well from the Bahrain embassies own information ....
Terrain: Mostly low desert plain
Natural Hazards: Periodic droughts; dust storms
Any track near beach has this issue.
it was one of the great hazards at Zandvoort and there was a few orders of magnitude less sand around than Bahrain :)

NAZCA C2
03-23-2004, 12:18 PM
there not going to be any overtaking. this is F1 we are talking about. the only passing occurs at the start, during pit stops, and when it rains. malaysia was supposed to be designed with passing in mind but i didnt see much passing last week, bahrain wont be any different.

the real deal
03-23-2004, 12:26 PM
I dont think that anyone can predict what is goin to happen at the next race. unless they can see into the future! Only one F1 car has been round the track at full speed and not even the williams team in which Mark Gene drove the car nos wat the race is goin to be like!! :cool:

byronleehk
03-23-2004, 12:27 PM
The Shanghai track will be interesting to watch for overtaking/passing because of the numerious turns :cool:

Misho
03-23-2004, 05:17 PM
Well from the Bahrain embassies own information ....
Terrain: Mostly low desert plain
Natural Hazards: Periodic droughts; dust storms
Any track near beach has this issue.
it was one of the great hazards at Zandvoort and there was a few orders of magnitude less sand around than Bahrain :)

i am a strong beleiver that actual experience is much more important than theoritical studies !! :D

Misho
03-23-2004, 05:36 PM
did u know that at 665 sq km, the country of Bahrain is about 3.5 times the size of Washington D.C ??! With a population of 667,238 this means a population density of approximately 1000 persons/sq km which is among the highest in the world.

Matra et Alpine
03-23-2004, 07:08 PM
i am a strong beleiver that actual experience is much more important than theoritical studies !! :D
Not sure the point Misho.

But do you have experience of weather/sand conditions in Manama as you mention it ?

The tracks about as central to the main island of Bahrain as it can get.
Totally differnt conditions from the NE island group.

I'm going from information provided by Bahrain ministry.
I reckoned their experience would be better than my guesswork !!

Time will tell :)

Matra et Alpine
03-23-2004, 07:36 PM
quote taken from Reuters agency report .....

Bahrain, with high temperatures and the danger of sand blowing
around, will be a challenge to all 10 teams.
Head said the track had also been so dusty and dirty, with some
sand blowing around, that Gene's experience did not have a lot of
relevance, although grip levels were a lot better than expected.

So looks like based on Williams experience at the opening of the circuit that sand does blow around.
Amazing that happening in a desert plain, huh :)

How much of a kick-back did Bernie get for taking the F1 circus there ????

Deckard
03-23-2004, 07:57 PM
quote taken from Reuters agency report .....

Bahrain, with high temperatures and the danger of sand blowing
around, will be a challenge to all 10 teams.
Head said the track had also been so dusty and dirty, with some
sand blowing around, that Gene's experience did not have a lot of
relevance, although grip levels were a lot better than expected.

So looks like based on Williams experience at the opening of the circuit that sand does blow around.
Amazing that happening in a desert plain, huh :)

How much of a kick-back did Bernie get for taking the F1 circus there ????

No matter which way you look at it there's going to be a lot sand blowing around!

http://www.f1total.com/bilder/2004/pr/bahrain/z006.jpg

http://www.f1total.com/bilder/2004/pr/bahrain/z007.jpg

http://www.f1total.com/bilder/2004/pr/bahrain/z008.jpg

http://www.f1total.com/bilder/2004/pr/bahrain/z009.jpg

Matra et Alpine
03-24-2004, 06:13 AM
No matter which way you look at it there's going to be a lot sand blowing around!
Thanks Deckard, I'd seen some early photos which clearly showed the surrounding desert, but coulnd't find any last night :(
These show the problem :)

Misho
03-24-2004, 07:18 AM
i guess "a lot of sand" is a relative term !! it probably is a lot compared to any of the other F1 tracks. not sure if it will cause major grip problems though. ah well, i guess we are all lucky to get the opportunity and watch an F1 race on a track being used for the first time !!

the thing about the track being as mainland as posssible, no matter where you are in Bahrain, there is a coast within 5 kilometers!!

Homem de Gelo
03-24-2004, 08:45 AM
Bahrain will be madness.
With all that sand flying around, we can expect to see more engine failures than in both races together so far. And the tyre companies can completely mess up, since they have very few knowledge on what are the characteristics of the tarmac and what should be the ideal set-up of the cars.

Of course Schumacher is still the favourite. But I hope he doesn't win, I want more excitement.

Matra et Alpine
03-24-2004, 09:12 AM
the thing about the track being as mainland as posssible, no matter where you are in Bahrain, there is a coast within 5 kilometers!!
If this is related to my post then please let me correct it.
I had said the "main island" - not mainland.
I'm fortunate in that my schooling included geography of other countries :)

Sorry but I don't like my words altered by error :rolleyes:

Misho
03-24-2004, 02:51 PM
i have a feeling your taking this personally, anyways i never meant anything bad. i apologise if i was misunderstood. :)

as for the geography and weather issues, the following is a great link to the CIA Factbook which has great information on any country u can think of !!

http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/ba.html

FYI the COUNTRY with the least population is the "Pitcairn Islands " with a July 2003 population estimate of 47 people !!! :D
i really can't understand this figure, so anyone with knowledge please help me out !

Homem de Gelo
03-24-2004, 03:09 PM
At least they didn't have to worry about finding sand for the run-off areas.

Matra et Alpine
03-24-2004, 03:15 PM
i have a feeling your taking this personally, anyways i never meant anything bad. i apologise if i was misunderstood. :)
It's OK.

as for the geography and weather issues, the following is a great link to the CIA Factbook which has great information on any country u can think of !!
.. until then. CIA for facts, ho-ho-ho.
and it even suffers the usual American dumbing down ( sorry guys ) like saying it's 3.5 times the size of Washington DC. Like anyone knows or cares how big Washington DC is :) Square miles and kilometeres usually works for us 'ducated 'furrners :)
I love the political analysis entries at the start. good read !!!

The US is typically trumpetting .... quote
Buoyed by victories in World Wars I and II - gee thanks for that one. And all those other nations don't get a mention :)
the US remains the world's most powerful nation-state. The economy is marked by steady growth, low unemployment and inflation, and rapid advances in technology.
Funny it doesn't mention the illiteracy rate, murder rate or huge budget deficit.
But as the mouth-organ of Dubya's government, not much else can be expected.

i really can't understand this figure, so anyone with knowledge please help me out !
Almost deserted outpost of the British Empire.
If you've ever seen Mutiny on the Bounty well the Pitcairns are the islands the crew set up home on to avoid the inevitable hanging if they were caught by HM Navy !!
As a kid who had collected stamps, it was one of the most prolific stamp producers. It was the cheapest and easiest thing to make money on.
Special editions came out almost ever week :)

PS: Don't get me werong, I love some of the USA and most of the folks and have spent a large part of my working life there and in the employ of major US companies. BUT that website is painful :)

Misho
03-24-2004, 03:29 PM
The US is typically trumpetting .... quote
Buoyed by victories in World Wars I and II - gee thanks for that one. And all those other nations don't get a mention :)
the US remains the world's most powerful nation-state. The economy is marked by steady growth, low unemployment and inflation, and rapid advances in technology.
Funny it doesn't mention the illiteracy rate, murder rate or huge budget deficit.
But as the mouth-organ of Dubya's government, not much else can be expected.




hey, you wanna take this to the Politics thread ?!! :D

Misho
03-24-2004, 03:34 PM
here is a different opinion !! :)

http://www.countryreports.org/content/usa.htm

Matra et Alpine
03-24-2004, 03:39 PM
here is a different opinion !! :)

http://www.countryreports.org/content/usa.htm

and you don't recognise the same hand ?

Compare the opening text with that from the CIA page.
It is EXACTLY the same.
Same source under a different guise.

Blair's government in the UK has made great use of that ploy.
Cite a number of different sources backing their actions. A little research later shows they're all based on one and it's flawed and the BBC lose their best manager in years because of it !!!

BLoody politics, you're right, no more or I'll get all nationalistic and start heid-butting everyone and shouting "hey,jimmy" and singing "We're oan the march wie Ally's armeeeee" :)

Matra et Alpine
03-24-2004, 03:42 PM
returning to F1 :) - nearly - their were riots outside the US embassy in Bahrain today :(

Anyone hearing anything from FIA confirming security of the teams/drivers and that the race will go ahead ?

I'd hate for us to miss a race, but equally I'd hate if any visitors or locals were injured.

Deckard
03-24-2004, 05:01 PM
More on the sand issue.

Even Bernie Ecclestone cannot use his power to hold back the sands of the desert, but a liberal spreading of a unique superglue should be able to prevent the Bahrain Grand Prix from disappearing under a huge dune. The tiny island state has spent £100 million building a state-of-the-art track that will stage the first grand prix in the Middle East on April 4.

Officials have been worried that the race would be wrecked if winds blew sand from the surrounding desert into the faces of the 20 drivers and deposited it on the track, so they have devised a glue that is being spread on the dunes around the vast stadium complex. It will be covered by a thin film as a second barrier to stop the sand blowing about to ruin Bahrain's big day.

The unique solution comes after one of the most intensive construction efforts in the world, at a speed that would put the organisers of the Olympic Games in Athens to shame. More than 3,000 workers, many from Pakistan, India and Malaysia, helped to blast away one million cubic metres of rock to erect the circuit complex and then lay the track with 60,000 tonnes of granite imported from Wales. Yet the foundation stone was laid by the Duke of York as recently as October 2002.

Homem de Gelo
03-25-2004, 08:55 AM
Amazing.
Simply amazing.

Matra et Alpine
03-25-2004, 09:28 AM
Gluing the sand - I've heard it all now :)

Do you think anyone will have bothered to do an environmental impact on that ?

What does it mean for future races at the track ?
Will it get the glue added for club races or is it going to be a once-a-year use only ??

Deckard
03-25-2004, 02:28 PM
Gluing the sand - I've heard it all now :)

Do you think anyone will have bothered to do an environmental impact on that ?




Your kidding, right? :rolleyes:

I don't think they've heard the phrase 'environmental impact statement'.
:) :)

Misho
03-25-2004, 07:10 PM
Your kidding, right? :rolleyes:

I don't think they've heard the phrase 'environmental impact statement'.
:) :)


only if it will hurt the oil reserves, then it becomes necessary !! :D

Misho
03-31-2004, 06:45 PM
it has been announced by Bahranian television that the weather forecast for the race weekend shows predictions of possible rain and temperatures of around 26 degrees celsuis!!
These are extremely abnormal conditions for Bahrain during this season. No strong winds are predicted to cause sand storms though.

Matra et Alpine
04-01-2004, 06:14 AM
it has been announced by Bahranian television that the weather forecast for the race weekend shows predictions of possible rain and temperatures of around 26 degrees celsuis!!
These are extremely abnormal conditions for Bahrain during this season. No strong winds are predicted to cause sand storms though.
Today's update ...

The Bahrain government have announced a revolutionary solution based on the technology used for the sands.
During the race the Air Force will be flying specially modified hercules transports.
These will be outfitted with spraying equipment which will spread glue into the clouds this holding all of the clouds together and preventing any rain. These will then be moved using the Local built Lirpa helicopter to over the sea where they will be allowed to drop safely.
This will be a FIRST in Formula One.





:)

Homem de Gelo
04-01-2004, 09:53 AM
lirpa tsrif

Misho
04-01-2004, 10:56 AM
Today's update ...

The Bahrain government have announced a revolutionary solution based on the technology used for the sands.
During the race the Air Force will be flying specially modified hercules transports.
These will be outfitted with spraying equipment which will spread glue into the clouds this holding all of the clouds together and preventing any rain. These will then be moved using the Local built Lirpa helicopter to over the sea where they will be allowed to drop safely.
This will be a FIRST in Formula One.



if it wasnt for the part were u mentioned "local built helicopter" i could have beleived that !! :)

Deckard
04-01-2004, 06:14 PM
Today's update ...

The Bahrain government have announced a revolutionary solution based on the technology used for the sands.
During the race the Air Force will be flying specially modified hercules transports.
These will be outfitted with spraying equipment which will spread glue into the clouds this holding all of the clouds together and preventing any rain. These will then be moved using the Local built Lirpa helicopter to over the sea where they will be allowed to drop safely.
This will be a FIRST in Formula One.






:)
:D :D :D :D

I love April Fools Day.

drakkie
04-04-2004, 03:31 AM
yep nice track I think ferrari, or maybe renault (cos the reliability)

Matra et Alpine
04-04-2004, 06:59 AM
A good race.

The ITV presenters yesterday APOLOGISED for saying that it was an engine failure on Kimi's car during practise. They said they had been "invited" to the McLaren pit after the comment and Haug told them it was not the engine, it was electrical.

After the decision to not run final qualifying they asked Haug if the engine was unreliabel and if they were having to save it and he looked like he was going to blow a fuse and spoeke quite terse saying the engine was good.

When Kimi's engine blew today, you could almost hear a pin drop as they tried to explain it without actually saying the engine blew up.

What is it with Haug and Mercedes macho image.
The engine's crap, isn't powerful enough, doesn't rev as high and isn't reliable.

Bet Ron's wishing he'd not made his pact with the devil and gone with Honda instead.

Will be interesting to hear what Coulthard says. I personally think he just parked the car up rather than be asked to nurse an ailing car home for no points !!!!

drakkie
04-04-2004, 07:21 AM
Raikkonen blew up really nice durig the race, but Couldthards problems were something hydraulic or pneumatic, cos during his unannounced pitstop , a man with a pressure tank was doing something to the car.Its probably a gearbox thing or maybe the valves.(so engine again).

The engine is crappy yeah, speed is ok, but unreliable. The just havent found the right balance between reliability and speed .



PS. wel done by button. Great race on a great track.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------
flying without wings

Matra et Alpine
04-04-2004, 08:32 AM
a man with a pressure tank was doing something to the car.Its probably a gearbox thing or maybe the valves.(so engine again).
I think DC shut the engine off and the bottle was the pneumatic starter and they told him to go out again. If that's the case I hope he red-lined the engine before parking it :)

Matra et Alpine
04-04-2004, 09:58 AM
Couldthards problems were something hydraulic or pneumatic, cos during his unannounced pitstop , a man with a pressure tank was doing something to the car.
David Coulthard, McLaren (DNF):
"A disappointing outcome after an extremely unsatisfying couple of days in Bahrain. I had a few good battles during the race but as has been the case throughout I lacked speed. Another points finish would have been possible but at the end I lost air in the pneumatic system of the engine. I came into the pits to see if we could do something to rectify the situation but it proved impossible and that was the end of that."

Deckard
04-04-2004, 05:21 PM
Yeah, that Merc/Ilmor engine just isn't cutting it. Don't know whether it's Merc or Ilmor who should get the blame but after the debacle of the MP4-18, you'd think that they would have their act together.

It was good to see some close racing, very impressed with Klein. He wasn't fazed with dicing with Kimi. Also good to see the BAR doing well.

Ralf needs to have his head examined after the tangle with Sato. Who was he trying to kid?

Driver of the day had to be Sato.

NAZCA C2
04-05-2004, 10:40 AM
The new circuit in Bahrain is pretty cool. The only good action was from Kimi/Klein and Massa/Alonso. F1 needs to bring back slick tires to make more passing. You can't pass without lateral grip.

Matra et Alpine
04-05-2004, 10:59 AM
The new circuit in Bahrain is pretty cool. The only good action was from Kimi/Klein and Massa/Alonso. F1 needs to bring back slick tires to make more passing. You can't pass without lateral grip.
The problem with slicks is the cornering speeds would go up.
Most circuits would have only one reasonable line round any corner and it would become more processional.
The cars have outgrown the tracks. Bahrain is the latest and even then there were not as many overtaking places as the designers thought :(

Ferrari Tifosi
04-05-2004, 11:39 AM
Good drive for many, Button, Sato, and Klien did very well contending with Kimi. Does anyone know what happened to Montoya's car at the end of the race? Anyway, another easy win for Ferrari, although this was the first race that Michael didn't lead all the laps.