Is Toyota really still that good?

[Gtek-i]

Nope. Sources tell us that Toyota are beginning to have quality issues with their cars, especially their larger vehicles (Sienna, Tundra, 4Runner etc.). These cars, INCLUDING Lexus (RX, GX, LX), are getting called back for problems. Toyota cars never (maybe once) been called back in history! They say that is because of Their sudden expansion, they didn't have enough time to look into their quality. Toyota's chairman has already apologized and is hoping that Toyota will return to its usual quality.

[Rockefella]

Nope. Sources tell us that Toyota are beginning to have quality issues with their cars, especially their larger vehicles (Sienna, Tundra, 4Runner etc.). These cars, INCLUDING Lexus (RX, GX, LX), are getting called back for problems. Toyota cars never (maybe once) been called back in history! They say that is because of Their sudden expansion, they didn't have enough time to look into their quality. Toyota's chairman has already apologized and is hoping that Toyota will return to its usual quality.
What sources?

[Gtek-i]

It's all over the internet! I think...

[Rockefella]

It's all over the internet! I think...
So, you don't have a link?

[Gtek-i]

My Mom told me this...(hehe...mamas boy:p) I'll ask her for the link tomorrow.

[Rockefella]

Thanks for enlightening me.

[fpv_gtho]

Toyota never been called back in history?

EVERY manufacturer has had to make recalls and such over the years. Toyota having problems isnt anything new.

[Blitz_]

As far as I can recall in Australia, a number of corolla's, (or echoes?) and prius' had to be recalled, nothing new with manufacturers really.

[coolieman1220]

yeah i could aree to that, owning a 2001 Toyota Highlander, it has had numerous recalls for random things and we've had some problems with it, a faulty HVAC sensor, not giivng any heat when wanted (cost like $1,000 to fix luckily warranty covered it) and recently a hole in the exhaust. after 5 years and some snow and all other weather living in NYC with 50.000 miles

[blingbling]

I do not usually use this term, but "owned" applies here very well.

[Gtek-i]

yes, it is getting "owned" by Honda/Acura and Mazda:p

[The_Canuck]

yes, it is getting "owned" by Honda/Acura and Mazda:p
I wouldn't say owned :rolleyes: i don't think toyotas current products are any good really.

[coolieman1220]

nissan is owning all though!

[crisis]

As far as I can recall in Australia, a number of corolla's, (or echoes?) and prius' had to be recalled, nothing new with manufacturers really.
And Prados just recently.

[Niko_Fx]

Toyotas have been recalled before.... Just like any other manufacturer.

Please post some links.

[h00t_h00t]

Read the thread, there are no links, its all based off of his mum's opinion.

[Gtek-i]

I'll find the link soon...tomorrow at the latest:)

[coolieman1220]

google it, see what comes up

[h00t_h00t]

Nothing out of the ordinary, they're doing better than GM and Ford.

[NSXType-R]

Nothing out of the ordinary, they're doing better than GM and Ford.

Can anyone do any worse than GM or Ford? :D

[Equinox]

Can anyone do any worse than GM or Ford? :D
good point!

[h00t_h00t]

Yes, Fiat manage to make a mess of everything they touch and then Rover collapsed.

[Dino Scuderia]

Don't know anything about Toyota's reliability trend but I thought this was interesting.

I recently heard a report, I believe from Consumer Reports, which said the reliability of the best Japanese cars has plateaued the past three years, reason being the cost of increasing reliability beyond what it is currently has exceeded what the market will bare in the respective markets.

[kingofthering]

Yes, Fiat manage to make a mess of everything they touch and then Rover collapsed.
you forgot Ssyangyong. It seems that no matter how bad their cars are, they can't die off. They probably make it their mission to make sucky cars.

[2ndclasscitizen]

Don't know anything about Toyota's reliability trend but I thought this was interesting.

I recently heard a report, I believe from Consumer Reports, which said the reliability of the best Japanese cars has plateaued the past three years, reason being the cost of increasing reliability beyond what it is currently has exceeded what the market will bare in the respective markets.
Maybe there's no real way to make them any more reliable

[kingofthering]

Maybe there's no real way to make them any more reliable
I guess they will need to start making them bulletproof (literally)

[TRD_fun]

http://news.moneycentral.msn.com/provider/providerarticle.asp?Feed=AP&Date=20060718&ID=5873092

This isn't a total bust of quality, it's more of an incident that gives way to criticism.

http://www.nyse.com/interface/jsp/NHDetail.jsp?RequestID=2&pageID=NewsHeadlines&sid=ON%2007/25%20220&isdowjones=true

And finally:


Japan scolds Toyota on recall practices

Yuri Kageyama / Associated Press

TOKYO -- In a rare public scolding of Japan's biggest company, the government reprimanded Toyota Friday and called for improved recall practices amid a criminal investigation into a 2004 accident.

The transportation ministry issued a "guidance" order requiring the automaker to report to the ministry by Aug. 4 steps it is taking to better monitor reports of defects with its cars and speed up communication within the company about possible problems, a ministry official said on customary condition of anonymity.

The ministry did not fine Toyota or find it guilty of breaking the law.

But public prosecutors, who are independent of the government, may still file charges against Toyota Motor Corp. officials under investigation.

Toyota Executive Vice President Masatami Takimoto said the carmaker will do its best to beef up its practices as instructed by the ministry.

"We take the directives from the ministry very seriously," he said in a statement.

The widely reported recall investigation -- coming at a time when Toyota recalls are ballooning -- has been a major embarrassment for Toyota because of its solid reputation for quality.

Earlier this month, police said they were sending papers to prosecutors on three Toyota officials in a criminal investigation on suspicion of professional negligence for allegedly shirking recalls for eight years.

Police say they suspect the three Toyota officials, whose names have not been disclosed because they have not been charged, knew about the problems as far back as 1996 but took no action.

The defects being investigated, a suspected faulty steering part, may have caused an August 2004 head-on crash in southwestern Japan that injured five people, they say.

Toyota has denied any wrongdoing, saying the reported problems had not appeared serious enough to warrant a recall until October 2004, when Toyota recalled in Japan 330,000 Hilux Surf vehicles manufactured between December 1988 and May 1996.

The 2004 recall affected more than a million vehicles sold in 180 nations, including the U.S. and Europe, and some problems had been reported from abroad, according to Toyota. None of the reports from abroad had caused accidents, the company said.

At a news conference Thursday, Toyota President Katsuaki Watanabe bowed deeply and apologized for the recall troubles that had stirred up worries among customers. He denied wrongdoing.

"I take this seriously and see it as a crisis," said Watanabe. "I want to apologize deeply for the troubles we have caused."

Toyota shares, which have dropped from about 6,500 yen ($56) three months ago, dipped 0.69 percent in Tokyo to close at 5,760 yen ($49).


None of this bluntly states that Toyotas are crap of late, though. :p

[fa22_raptor]

Every manufacturer has recall and quality issues once in a while, and Toyota is no different. I don't think Toyota in particular has been suffering major quality issues more than usual as of late. Having said that though, I recently received a letter from Lexus regarding a fix they wanted to make to my ECU to make it more eco-friendly. Also, my girlfriend's mum's RX330 had a recent brake fix done ;) But these things happen, and that's life.

[IBrake4Rainbows]

Perhaps it's because these models (Tundra, Sienna) are built in the US?

[fpv_gtho]

I guess they will need to start making them bulletproof (literally)

If there comes a point where the technology in the cars is also at a plateau, someone will make a move and try something completely new, which wont be 100% reliable. That could very well be when hydrogen goes mass market.

[Dino Scuderia]

Maybe there's no real way to make them any more reliable

If a Formula One engine can rev to 19,000rpm and last two races...okay all of them don't but most do...then street cars can be made more reliable.

It just takes more money for developement....on the other hand if you were in the car making business you would only want them to last so long so you could sell more.:)

[woodstock827]

Perhaps it's because these models (Tundra, Sienna) are built in the US?

I'd agree. Americans workers don't seem to understand quality control very well...

[Dino Scuderia]

That isn't true, Honda Accords and Toyota Camry's have been built in the US for many years and are among the highest in reliability and quality.

[acemotorsport]

the camry is built in australia

[scottie300z]

the camry is built in australia

and in the US as well. it can be built in more than one place.

[PerfAdv]

Tundra are built in North America and are considered the most problem prone Toyota. Other US assembled Toyotas seem to do fine. Rarely though will you get Japanese assembled models having problems, as a general rule. I guess Japanese assemblers can goof up once in a while, they just don't make it a habit...

[RacingManiac]

its the process not the worker.....working for a automotive supplier for a year really shows the difference. Japanese companies demends more from their supplier as well as themselves, and as a result less scrap and better parts are made, and thus saving money and improve quality. US companies are definitely still lagging behind....

[Dino Scuderia]

Taking big steps to correct problems will keep them on top...something the big three American companies should have learned decades ago.



Quality comes first for Toyota, as it should
Short-term pain will be long-term gain for company riddled with recalls


SAN FRANCISCO (MarketWatch) -- Tapping the brakes on new-model launches may slow Toyota's pursuit of the coveted "world's biggest automaker" title, but some things are more important, especially for a company that has staked its reputation on quality.
Besides, few doubt that Toyota will inevitably vanquish General Motors Corporation as top auto dog, regardless of the measures it takes to remedy recent glitches.
With its mantra of kaizen, translated as continuous improvement, stained in the past year by a rash of recalls, Toyota is reportedly about to compromise its ferocious growth to make sure its new products live up to the company's sturdy reputation.
Toyota has recalled 628,000 vehicles in the U.S. this year and may soon recall another 500,000, the Wall Street Journal reported. This comes on top of more than two million recalls in 2005. In fact, only Ford had more recalls last year per vehicle on the road than Toyota.
Not even the red-hot Prius hybrid has been spared.
But they keep selling ... and selling. Just like most Toyota and Lexus models. And that's because it'll take a more than a rocky year to undo what Toyota has accomplished in the court of public opinion over the past few decades.
Of course, the notion of slowing growth never resonates well in the trading pits of New York, where Toyota's U.S.-listed shares sank 2% to close the week at $106.12 on the report.
Number crunchers fear the impact the potential delays could have on the bottom line in the coming quarters, and maybe they're concerned that this is just the tip of the iceberg.
Also, the stock is clearly priced for perfection, with Toyota's market capitalization equaling that of all five of the other top automakers combined.
It's not like domestic manufacturers are immune to delays and production cuts. Earlier this week, Ford Motor Company slashed its fourth-quarter production plans by a surprising 21%. But no bit of bad news coming from the Big Three would be considered shocking these days.
That's not the case with Toyota, which has emerged with a mostly bulletproof image.
And the company is apparently prepared to preserve that image at all cost, even if it has to endure some short-term market pain. So far, the bruises are already fading as the company has performed as usual in closely-watched consumer studies.
Just this month, J.D. Power named the Lexus brand as the most dependable for the 12th consecutive year. Toyota cars and trucks were fifth. Broken down by segment, the two brands together dominated the results with four first-place nods apiece.
"Perceptions about dependability can have a tremendous impact on an owner's satisfaction with their vehicle, which is no small matter for manufacturers," said analyst Neil Oddes. "In terms of retained value, recommendation and repurchase intent, and component replacement, vehicle dependability can have a direct impact on a manufacturer's bottom line."
And nobody plays the perception game better than Toyota.
While any sort of production delays may dent near-term growth prospects and give its beleaguered rivals cause for hope, Toyota loyalists are more likely to see a company devoted to setting the gold standard in reliability. End of Story

http://www.marketwatch.com/News/Story/Story.aspx?guid=%7B7833CB64%2D2315%2D42BE%2D8F1C%2 D4885BEE2FB81%7D&siteid=mktw&dist=

[NSXType-R]

its the process not the worker.....working for a automotive supplier for a year really shows the difference. Japanese companies demends more from their supplier as well as themselves, and as a result less scrap and better parts are made, and thus saving money and improve quality. US companies are definitely still lagging behind....

It's true. Japanese people have a different outlook on work. They either give their absolute best everyday of their job or don't work at all. It's not just in the automotive companies. It's built into their culture. Doing their job well is honorable for them. Americans just don't have this type of idea towards work.

[Rockefella]

It's true. Japanese people have a different outlook on work. They either give their absolute best everyday of their job or don't work at all. It's not just in the automotive companies. It's built into their culture. Doing their job well is honorable for them. Americans just don't have this type of idea towards work.
<stereotypes><racism> Really? </stereotypes></racism>

[NSXType-R]

Yeah. That's the way that they think. Think back to samurai. If they had lost a battle, they would commit suicide because it's dishonorable. Think of their work as their "war" and think of it that way. Either they served to their best of their ability or they had failed if they didn't succeed.

[jcp123]

My Dad has worked extensively with Japanese in the high-tech industry and would say pretty much the same thing about the work ethic.

Anyway, I would say no, Toyota isn't still that good based on my experience. We had a '04 Sienna which we purchesed brand new and it had TONS of problems, becoming one of the least reliable cars we have owned. Keep in mind that we traded it after only 25k miles because of this stuff:

- Busted seat belt sensor from factory (stupid things)
- Broken rear seat belt from factory
- Leaky a/c from factory
- Rear folding seat broke
- Alarm broke
- AWD service light would flash once in a while
- Front cupholder broke

Not to mention some of the other things in there I wasn't impressed with such as those awful run-flat tires (lasted only 17k miles and rode like a slab of granite), the quality of the plastics on the dash, the creepy variable-ratio steering, and the overall dash design. Plus, out of the four Toyota dealers we dealt with, NONE were very helpful, all were way too busy, and were very stingy on what they'd give us on trade-in value.

One thing they did do well was their 3.3l V6 (230hp, 242tq); I thought it was to their credit that they used their VVT-i system to enhance low-end torque while simply maintaining top-end HP, rather than trying to crank more HP out of the engine at an RPM range you'd never use anyway. The engine was smooth, reasonably torquey, and did a good job hauling something as heavy as it was around considering it only displaced 3.3l.


My friend's '94 Celica, on the other hand seems to be rock solid reliable and gets fantastic mileage. At 140k miles it feels like it's just getting broken in. Methinks that Toyota's spending too much time these days with all their gee-whiz who-cares technogadgetry and not enough just building cars.

[NSXType-R]

That's true. My cousin has a Sienna and it's a great car overall but the plastic really gets on my nerves. Have you seen any of the minivans that Toyota has in Japan/Asia, such as the High Ace (spelling?), Estima and such like that? They look so much better. I think the Sienna is a North American model, so the quality isn't as good. My dad has an '83 Accord, still runs fine. It was built in Japan. :D

[IVEgotTHEblues]

The Sienna is a North American model, let's keep that in mind here. If you take a look at the Odyssey (which my auntie owns) you will see that there are a lot of plastics as well. Don't get me started with American brand minivans!

And every car manufacturer has their own problems, not just Toyota, let's keep that in mind as well. We could go on and on about Ford, Chrysler, or whatnot.

[Alastor]

If a Formula One engine can rev to 19,000rpm and last two races...okay all of them don't but most do...then street cars can be made more reliable.

It just takes more money for developement....on the other hand if you were in the car making business you would only want them to last so long so you could sell more.:)

An F1 engine that runs at 20,000 RPM lasts less than 500 miles. It has a dedicated team of engineers and technicians that constantly monitor its performance for any deviation from nominal and responsed accordingly.

So a consumer engine that runs at 5,000 RPM should last four times longer? Ten times longer? What about the fact that the engine is typically maintained by a non-technical individual who at best performs regular maintenance. They certainly will not collect and analyze telemetry data about every ride to work.

It is not uncommon for a well maintained vehicle to last over 100,000 miles. That is 200 times better reliability with significantly less control over the operating condition experience by the engine.

F1 may be the pinnacle of certain automotive technologies, but I do not think reliability across a board range of operating conditions is one of them.

[NSXType-R]

The Sienna is a North American model, let's keep that in mind here. If you take a look at the Odyssey (which my auntie owns) you will see that there are a lot of plastics as well. Don't get me started with American brand minivans!

And every car manufacturer has their own problems, not just Toyota, let's keep that in mind as well. We could go on and on about Ford, Chrysler, or whatnot.

I've never sat in an Odyssey before so I wouldn't know. Are you referring to the old or new one? I heard the new Odyssey set a new benchmark for mini-vans which they stole from the Sienna. You need to realize that Honda keeps a separate Odyssey in the Asian market and Toyota does too (having multiple models too). I just can't help but wonder why are they so selfish? :D

[Alastor]

You need to realize that Honda keeps a separate Odyssey in the Asian market and Toyota does too (having multiple models too). I just can't help but wonder why are they so selfish? :D

It really sucks that they don’t offer both version over seas because the Japanese spec Odyssey is a lot cooler than the US version. When I was over in Japan it seemed like everyone had a customized Odyssey. I am not a big mini-van fan, but by the end of my trip I wanted to get one imported.

Here is picture of one that was at a rest stop on the way to the airport.

[kingofthering]

It really sucks that they don’t offer both version over seas because the Japanese spec Odyssey is a lot cooler than the US version. When I was over in Japan it seemed like everyone had a customized Odyssey. I am not a big mini-van fan, but by the end of my trip I wanted to get one imported.

Here is picture of one that was at a rest stop on the way to the airport.
Mmmmm I'll take one in black with the Modulo billion spoke(so it seems) wheels

[Gtek-i]

Siennas still suck...and they suck more when compared to the JP Oddyssey.

[NSXType-R]

It really sucks that they don’t offer both version over seas because the Japanese spec Odyssey is a lot cooler than the US version. When I was over in Japan it seemed like everyone had a customized Odyssey. I am not a big mini-van fan, but by the end of my trip I wanted to get one imported.

Here is picture of one that was at a rest stop on the way to the airport.

That's an old one. The new ones look even better.

[NSXType-R]

It really sucks that they don’t offer both version over seas because the Japanese spec Odyssey is a lot cooler than the US version. When I was over in Japan it seemed like everyone had a customized Odyssey. I am not a big mini-van fan, but by the end of my trip I wanted to get one imported.

Here is picture of one that was at a rest stop on the way to the airport.

The new one looks even better. That picture is an old one. Try looking in the hideout for the new JDM Odyssey.

[Alastor]

Yea, I saw a lot of the new ones too, and I agree they are a lot better. Unfortunately, I did not have a digital camera until the last couple of days I was there, so that is the only digital picture I have of an Odyssey.

Here are a few more picture that I took walking around trying to get the hang of the digital camera.

[adrenaline]

Toyota is not losing it's quality, they have merely had a few recalls of late, nothing compared to recalls recently by Ford and GM.

Also, Ford recruited Toyota's quality expert. She (or he, I forget) found 181 quality issues during the development of the (unreleased) Ford Edge. So you can expect the new Edge to be on top of the quality podium.

[NSXType-R]

Yea, I saw a lot of the new ones too, and I agree they are a lot better. Unfortunately, I did not have a digital camera until the last couple of days I was there, so that is the only digital picture I have of an Odyssey.

Here are a few more picture that I took walking around trying to get the hang of the digital camera.

Wow, that fourth picture looked like a Subaru Baja-ed Scion Xb. Very strange.