6.0L V8 from holden

[Holden rocks]

what do u think about the updated V8 from holden on the new VE

[Souljah]

aint it just the "new" corvette engine...im not saying it is..i just have a feeling it is??

[SlickHolden]

No thats in the HSV models. This one is more based on the Trucks.

I think hands down it shits on the old LS1 which was a great engine after 7 years of playing and tinkering with new parts it got to be a very good engine.
But the new one is a torque beast and doesn't piston slap :D

[rev440]

From what ive seen in the GTO's and C6's the engine is great. With a aggresive head and cam its putting down 500rwhp.

[clutch-monkey]

what do u think about the updated V8 from holden on the new VE
i don't know, but stop making threads

[kigango123]

should have put links,
i always thought it was just a corvette engine,

[fpv_gtho]

Well, technically the LS2 is the Corvette engine. Not the L76/L98.

[HSVLVR]

It has (from what I've heard) improved on the VZ's 6.0L LS2. Either way, the new V8 rocks!!

[acemotorsport]

the fanboy is back

[HSVLVR]

Damn right I am!!

[acemotorsport]

i havnt seen you here since FORD won sandown 500

[fpv_gtho]

Do you two need a room?

[fpv_gtho]

It has (from what I've heard) improved on the VZ's 6.0L LS2. Either way, the new V8 rocks!!

I'll say again for the millionth time, only HSV get the LS2. Holden have a more basic form of the engine.

[HSVLVR]

Yeah I know that. Holden/HSV are almost the same thing.

[fpv_gtho]

Except for that crazy goose Tom Walkinshaw.....

[HSVLVR]

Except for that crazy goose Tom Walkinshaw.....

That is very true

[SlickHolden]

Do you two need a room?
hahahahahaha Classic:D

[Sid447]

No thats in the HSV models. This one is more based on the Trucks.
I think hands down it shits on the old LS1 which was a great engine after 7 years of playing and tinkering with new parts it got to be a very good engine.
But the new one is a torque beast and doesn't piston slap :D

Hello to you all by the way, a little new to this particular Forum.

The above post is quoted not to aim at anyone personally.
I run an LS1-powered car. A 2002 VX series II (LHD) I have never experienced any piston slap and there a literally thousands of LS1's that haven't either.

The problem was acknowledged by the factory quite some time ago and a fix was validated. It's mentioned here, and this is dated 2001
http://www.c5registry.com/2k2z06/page5.htm

By the end of 2001 most of the engines were built using LS6 blocks and all engines had the LS6 intakes from MY2001. By 2003 all production was only LS6 blocks the original LS1 block was out of production, effectively meaning the cylinder heads (casting number 241) were the only parts that were still "original" LS1.
My car for example is a Dec 2001 build and had an LS6 block, also the revised pistons and rings. It doesn't have any oil consumption issues either and it's up over stock by about 120RWhp.

The LS2 is a good engine.
http://www.gmhightechperformance.com/features/0405htp_ls2_inside_look_feature/
Differences to Gen 3 here:
http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/engine/113_0503_ls2_generation_IV_specifications_differen ces/

But it's not any better than the LS1 size for size.
The extra 304cc give it a little more go but considering it uses a larger cam 204/211 .525/.525 compared to the LS1's 198/208 .500/.500 and the same heads that were developed for the 5.7 LS6 version, that's only to be expected.
In fact the 2001 LS6 (in the ZO6) had the same 204/211 cam (this is where the LS2 cam came from) ....it was validated at 385hp/385lb-ft stock.
The LS2 is validated for 400hp/400lb-ft.
...From that viewpoint the 5.7 engine is making better power per litre!
If you compare torque (from stock figures) then the 5.7 LS6 set the benchmark with a BMEP higher than the LS2 or even the 7.0L LS7 for that matter.

Naturally with it's larger capacity the LS2 and variants have the potential to make higher power:-
This is an interesting article.........
http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/113_0504_general_motors_ls2_small_block_build/

[SlickHolden]

Hello to you all by the way, a little new to this particular Forum.

The above post is quoted not to aim at anyone personally.
I run an LS1-powered car. A 2002 VX series II (LHD) I have never experienced any piston slap and there a literally thousands of LS1's that haven't either.

The problem was acknowledged by the factory quite some time ago and a fix was validated. It's mentioned here, and this is dated 2001
http://www.c5registry.com/2k2z06/page5.htm

By the end of 2001 most of the engines were built using LS6 blocks and all engines had the LS6 intakes from MY2001. By 2003 all production was only LS6 blocks the original LS1 block was out of production, effectively meaning the cylinder haeds (casting number 241) were the only parts that were still "original" LS1.
My car for example is a Dec 2001 build and had an LS6 block, also the revised pistons and rings. It doesn't have any oil consumption issues either and it's up over stock by about 120RWhp.

The LS2 is a good engine.
http://www.gmhightechperformance.com/features/0405htp_ls2_inside_look_feature/
Differences to Gen 3 here:
http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/engine/113_0503_ls2_generation_IV_specifications_differen ces/

But it's not any better than the LS1 size for size.
The extra 304cc give it a little more go but considering it uses a larger cam 204/211 .525/.525 compared to the LS1's 198/208 .500/.500 and the same heads that were developed for the 5.7 LS6 version, that's only to be expected.
In fact the 2001 LS6 (in the ZO6) had the same 204/211 cam (this is where the LS2 cam came from) ....it was validated at 385hp/385lb-ft stock.
The LS2 is validated for 400hp/400lb-ft.
...From that viewpoint the 5.7 engine is making better power per litre!
If you compare torque (from stock figures) then the 5.7 LS6 set the benchmark with a BMEP higher than the LS2 or even the 7.0L LS7 for that matter.

Naturally with it's larger capacity the LS2 and variants have the potential to make higher power:-
This is an interesting article.........
http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/113_0504_general_motors_ls2_small_block_build/
That would be the change in the name also. From VT to VX Gen3 to LS1. It's not likely that anyone that owns a VX LS1 would have any issues. But many a VTII Gen3 owner just might. And this issue is on GM shoulders because they made some bad engines and trannys around 99-2000. And even the first Monaro suffered from this according to wheels mag when they talked about 28 years of V8 Commodores.
I think Holden's internal name for the engine by VX-VY was LS1.5.

[HSVLVR]

I think Holden's internal name for the engine by VX-VY was LS1.5.

Hmm... Interesting

[fpv_gtho]

Slick that wasnt a name change. LS1 and LS6 were both Gen3's much like LS2's, LS7's. L76's, L98's are all Gen4's

[SlickHolden]

I still get very lost when it comes to all these LS's:D.
But i read somewhere holden took as many of the upgrades they could and made it up with some LS2 parts i think?.

[fpv_gtho]

Well sid447 just pointed out how many LS6 parts were in the LS1's we had, is that what you had in mind?

[SlickHolden]

Yep i think so but my mind don't know what was in mind but that sounds right:) Upgrades from another:)

[HSVLVR]

This thread is confusing. Who started it?

[fpv_gtho]

The answer...lies...within the FIRST POST

[caz_375]

Slick that wasnt a name change. LS1 and LS6 were both Gen3's much like LS2's, LS7's. L76's, L98's are all Gen4's

LS2's are actually GenIV's....aren't they ? Or was that supposed to be a full stop between LS7's and L76's ?

[fpv_gtho]

Supposed to be a comma, so yeah LS2's are Gen4's

[caz_375]

As is the LS7, of course. The whole wording of that sentence confused the heck outta me.......all makes sense, now.

[SlickHolden]

What would have been easy if they just made normal engine names.
Making to different capacity engines LS1-LS2 was nuts sounds like they follow each other and are the same. You could be mistaken for thinking they are both GEN3's.
What happen to the LS3:eek:

[HSVLVR]

LS2's are actually GenIV's....aren't they ? Or was that supposed to be a full stop between LS7's and L76's ?

The E Series' LS2's are Gen IV's

[caz_375]

All LS2's are Gen IV's....so that would include the Z series as well.

[2ndclasscitizen]

Just to clarify and stop any confusion

Gen 3 engine range: LS1, LS6, C5R
Gen 4 engine range: L76 and L98, LS2, LS7, C6R

[fpv_gtho]

C5R and C6R are Corvette models as well though


What would have been easy if they just made normal engine names.
Making to different capacity engines LS1-LS2 was nuts sounds like they follow each other and are the same. You could be mistaken for thinking they are both GEN3's.
What happen to the LS3

It depends which way you look at it. LS1 and LS6 were the old engines, the 1 being the normal engine and the 6 being the higher spec one. The 2 and 7 are the same as that, but one higher up to differentiate.

[SlickHolden]

Very confusing still but i think I'm getting there:).

[2ndclasscitizen]

C5R and C6R are Corvette models as well though
Geez, I try and stop all the confusion and you just add more :p

[mmm_aapls]

Just to clarify and stop any confusion

Gen 3 engine range: LS1, LS6, C5R
Gen 4 engine range: L76 and L98, LS2, LS7, C6R

Also

LS9 = Suprcharged 6.2L V8

And
LS3 = 6.2L V8

[fpv_gtho]

It must be the LS3 HSV might be using in 2008

[caz_375]

I thought i remembered reading that HSV were rumored to be using the LS7.....

[fpv_gtho]

Alot of people have been naturally assuming that, i dont think its a given. 500hp, 7L and i think over 600nm torque. Those arent exactly numbers the government will like. Knowing HSV's luck though, they'll get away with it unnoticed, whilst the next FPV model gets Harold Scruby bitching again.

[caz_375]

If the LS7 is used, i'd imagine it would be in something like a GTS-R with all the bells and whistles and a price tag guaranteed to limit it's availability. Along with the huge brakes, ESP,MRC and airbags here there and everywhere, i can't see how anyone could complain about the horsepower without having ago at all the other high performance cars out there...

[SlickHolden]

If it was turbo they would be caned:). but still do it anyway:D.

[Sid447]

Read here:

http://www.answers.com/topic/gm-ls-engine

[SlickHolden]

This is interesting..

L76 is Holden's version of the 6.0 L Generation IV engine

[fpv_gtho]

Well its not interesting, its false.

We all know Holden use crate engines from GM, the only engines they utilize any control over is the Alloytec.

[P4g4nite]

I thought i remembered reading that HSV were rumored to be using the LS7
I very much doubt it. The LS7 is fairly expensively developed as far as production pushrod motors go. In addition to the sheer capacity it needs to reach 500hp it features high compression, titanium valves/conrods, dry sump lubrication all in an unique block casting.
Put simply, there is more than enough scope for development in cheaper and smaller engines to achieve all the power outputs HSV could want.
Motor magazine ran 12 sec 1/4 miles in a flash tuned manual gen 3 SS, the output of which can easily be replicated in an improved factory 6L.

Although for my money, nothing touches the Barra turbo that Ford makes.

[fpv_gtho]

I cant see that working for them though. For some reason, manufacturers always seem to leave particular areas of the engine untouched (unless youre talking about Ferrari, Lambo, Porsche etc). Ford for example dont think theres much more power from the 4V V8 NA, yet theres plenty of people getting 400kw from bolt ons, as well as pretty big gains from different cams and exhaust packages.

If the LS7 is that expensive though, HSV may see no reason not to however.

[SlickHolden]

I can see the LS7 in a GTS-R, The price of the GTS now is cheap so a Plus $100,00k GTS-R would be the norm.
I actually went down and seen the new GTS yesterday in red and black, I think i like them, Good thing was there was a Z series right behind it and the change is big and dates it easy in and out such a shame because it was a nice looking car. And on the guards if anyone every gets the chance to look down the guards and see a Z series sitting right behind it will get the shock that the VZ had flared guards also, Just not that open to be seen.
There was a old man about 55-58 talking to a salesman about the new GTS walking around chatting they came back from a test drive with smiles, I was going as he was and he had his wife with him, They got into a LS2 R8, He left there with rubber flying:p **** old hoon:D

But on the Boss engine that was the same as the ecotec engine, holden wouldn't give it some balls so it pretty much sat all it's life @ 147-152kw. When i spoke to a guy that tunes them he said my engine was better stock but the ecotec responds very well to bolt on's, If both cars were fitted with the same exhaust i would get 5-7kw extra, the ecotec would be over 10kw and more RWKW, It's got better flowing heads it's easy to stick a larger throttle body and cold air intake and get 10kw more power. He told me this engine should have been 165kw stock with around 320Nm, But the alloytech was coming and holden didn't want it to piss on it.

[HSVLVR]

This is a bit off-topic but apparently the HSV Walkinshaw has the best 5.0L engine. I can't remember where i read it but I wonder if it's actually true.

[2ndclasscitizen]

This is a bit off-topic but apparently the HSV Walkinshaw has the best 5.0L engine. I can't remember where i read it but I wonder if it's actually true.It has 180kw, the VT Clubbies and HSV SS commys had 195kw. Though 180kw is pretty awesome for 1988.

[HSVLVR]

It has 180kw, the VT Clubbies and HSV SS commys had 195kw. Though 180kw is pretty awesome for 1988.

I think torque and rev wise it was.

[fpv_gtho]

Probably not. Depending on where in the powerband it made peak power, if the revs were increased the torque is likely to be less.

[P4g4nite]

This is a bit off-topic but apparently the HSV Walkinshaw has the best 5.0L engine. I can't remember where i read it but I wonder if it's actually true.
Best of what 5.L V8s?

The 5.L in the old M5 made about 300kw.

[fpv_gtho]

Its likely he meant the Holden 304/308 5L :p

Although since he only said 5L, you might include the current 500hp, 5L V10 M5 engine

[SlickHolden]

My brother drove a Brocky 5lt VL and claims to have got wheel spin in 3rd going up the westgate bridge about 10 years ago, He said they were real fast.

[HSVLVR]

My brother drove a Brocky 5lt VL and claims to have got wheel spin in 3rd going up the westgate bridge about 10 years ago, He said they were real fast.

Farout.

[SlickHolden]

He said it was stock but i got a feeling knowing the guy that owned it it would have been upgraded by Brocky's boys.
This guy owned a Wayne Gardner car with 400kw, Also a RX-7 twin turbo 600hp and he's last car i know of was a skyline with 1000hp that he twisted the chassis and launched it into a school, Lucky it was a weekend. He walked away but the car didn't, I mentioned this some time back the guy had rich parents and was a dick head:D

[HSVLVR]

He said it was stock but i got a feeling knowing the guy that owned it it would have been upgraded by Brocky's boys.
This guy owned a Wayne Gardner car with 400kw, Also a RX-7 twin turbo 600hp and he's last car i know of was a skyline with 1000hp that he twisted the chassis and launched it into a school, Lucky it was a weekend. He walked away but the car didn't, I mentioned this some time back the guy had rich parents and was a dick head:D

Look's like he had to much time on his shoulders.

[SlickHolden]

Spoilt rich kids can be great and can also be one gigantic pain in the arse:D

[HSVLVR]

Spoilt rich kids can be great and can also be one gigantic pain in the arse:D

LOL:D

[SlickHolden]

I'm not rich but i'm a pain in the arse:D

[Sid447]

.......But on the Boss engine that was the same as the ecotec engine, holden wouldn't give it some balls so it pretty much sat all it's life @ 147-152kw. When i spoke to a guy that tunes them he said my engine was better stock but the ecotec responds very well to bolt on's, If both cars were fitted with the same exhaust i would get 5-7kw extra, the ecotec would be over 10kw and more RWKW, It's got better flowing heads it's easy to stick a larger throttle body and cold air intake and get 10kw more power. He told me this engine should have been 165kw stock with around 320Nm, But the alloytech was coming and holden didn't want it to piss on it.

By Ecotec "slick" are you meaning the Buick 3.8 V6?
(Ecotec was just a GM marketing name).
That engine is in a very low state of tune. But for a 1962 vintage all-iron ohv engine it's been through a lot of changes!

A good write-up on it here:
http://www.gnttype.org/general/v6hist.html

[clutch-monkey]

yeah, i had one of those in the VN. "rattletec" was more like it :D wouldn't have minded 165kw though....

[SlickHolden]

By Ecotec "slick" are you meaning the Buick 3.8 V6?
(Ecotec was just a GM marketing name).
That engine is in a very low state of tune. But for a 1962 vintage all-iron ohv engine it's been through a lot of changes!

A good write-up on it here:
http://www.gnttype.org/general/v6hist.html
There not the same engine. VS brought on the ecotec my car has the Buick V6. So many parts will not fit into my cars engine well really all internal parts wont the EFI is different heads pistons manifolds the works,
Best thing about the 2.
Buick V6.. Low down power
Ecotec V6.. Smoother quieter more top end power.
True Buick based but the ecotec is really it's biggest upgrade it shits on my engine for smoothness and quietness, They also don't have the fuel problems that plagued many VN-VR V6's, Even the manifolds dont crack anymore what a shame they aren't interchangeable.
Looking at your link the Buick don't go past the 92?

For me now i can see nothing other then the L67 in my car one day:)

[Sid447]

There not the same engine. VS brought on the ecotec my car has the Buick V6. So many parts will not fit into my cars engine well really all internal parts wont the EFI is different heads pistons manifolds the works,
Best thing about the 2.
Buick V6.. Low down power
Ecotec V6.. Smoother quieter more top end power.
True Buick based but the ecotec is really it's biggest upgrade it shits on my engine for smoothness and quietness, They also don't have the fuel problems that plagued many VN-VR V6's, Even the manifolds dont crack anymore what a shame they aren't interchangeable.
Looking at your link the Buick don't go past the 92?

For me now i can see nothing other then the L67 in my car one day:)

Yes,
This one's a bit better:
http://www.answers.com/topic/buick-v6-engine

L67 transplant? That'd be good; fair bit of involved engineering though.

Some decent info here too:
http://www.kitcarusa.com/kb.php?aid=62

[SlickHolden]

Yes,
This one's a bit better:
http://www.answers.com/topic/buick-v6-engine

L67 transplant? That'd be good; fair bit of involved engineering though.

Some decent info here too:
http://www.kitcarusa.com/kb.php?aid=62
I was told why not go a LS1 instead. But honestly i like a 6 and a powerful one also, A nice fast 6 that keeps with V8's is more rewarding then a V8 that keeps up with V8's:D.

I'm trying to work out my engine in there i pretty sure it's not the LN3 which i think was the series 1 VN. It might be the L27?.
L36 is the ecoetec engine. It's complicated like the LS Chev engines:D.

The 3800 was on the Ward's 10 Best Engines of the 20th Century
:D:D:D No-one would believe it:D

[2ndclasscitizen]

This is a bit off-topic but apparently the HSV Walkinshaw has the best 5.0L engine. I can't remember where i read it but I wonder if it's actually true.It has 180kw, the VT Clubbies and HSV SS commys had 195kw. Though 180kw is pretty awesome for 1988.Upon reading MOTOR's review of the Brocky VK Grp A SS, it appears I was wrong. The 304 in that had 196kw!!!!!!!

[HSVLVR]

Upon reading MOTOR's review of the Brocky VK Grp A SS, it appears I was wrong. The 304 in that had 196kw!!!!!!!

That's strange. But there again, it's a Brocky Group A SS.

[fpv_gtho]

Well if the Grp A road cars had anything like the race cars rev range its not too surprising. Most 5l's around that time wouldve topped at about 5K rpms, so if someone could keep the power going till even just 6K there'd be some good power to be made.

[HSVLVR]

5-6rpm is alot for that car. If it was a turbo, it would do alright as long as the revs stay the same.

[fpv_gtho]

Not really. Phase 2 GTHO's done 7000rpm and Phase 3's still done 6000rpm. Thats 1969-1971.

[HSVLVR]

Not really. Phase 2 GTHO's done 7000rpm and Phase 3's still done 6000rpm. Thats 1969-1971.

Got me there. but would it run good on turbo since it has such high revs?

[fpv_gtho]

Depends on the variables. Its not really down to whether it would run good or not either, any engine can run good with a turbo if its setup right and integrated into the whole package.

[HSVLVR]

Depends on the variables. Its not really down to whether it would run good or not either, any engine can run good with a turbo if its setup right and integrated into the whole package.

Yeah but..

[2ndclasscitizen]

IIRC nota recently posted that he got his to rev to 6250 rpm when going for a high speed run

[nota]

IIRC nota recently posted that he got his to rev to 6250 rpm when going for a high speed run
.. and (notably :D) it pulled those revs in in top gear. Btw it also indicated 96 km/h in 1st. If you started off gently then mashed it, with foot off the clutch it would start lighting them up when it got on the cam @ 50-60 km/h, through around 85 km/h, then a bit more spin into 2nd with the LSD. If the road surface wasn't smooth then sometimes a small chirp into 3rd too. So much fun on a wet road! I ran it in really concientiously, and optioned mine with the factory 'blueprinted' dizzy & quadrajet plus the great sounding Lukey-HDT 3" exhaust retrofit. The L/R fuel tank really balanced that car out, and helped with the traction


Years ago I knew a guy in Sydney with an HQ Monaro (just a basic one with 253/3speed) and with only a few mods like four barrel, cam, double valve springs etc. On the aftermarket tacho it would indicate 7,000rpm in 1st gear around suburban Coogee, equating to 80mph, which felt entirely believable from the passenger seat I can tell you

[2ndclasscitizen]

The L/R fuel tank really balanced that car out, and helped with the tractionL/R fuel tank? Was it split into 2, one on each side?


Years ago I knew a guy in Sydney with an HQ Monaro (just a basic one with 253/3speed) and with only a few mods like four barrel, cam, double valve springs etc. On the aftermarket tacho it would indicate 7,000rpm in 1st gear around suburban Coogee, equating to 80mph, which felt entirely believable from the passenger seat I can tell you
I'd imagine so

[caz_375]

L/R = Long Range :)

[nota]

L/R fuel tank? Was it split into 2, one on each side?
No it was a single 90 litre in drop-tank style, optional @ $356 (iirc!). Unlike the smaller tank these protrude below bumper-line, the additional weight when near-full really settled the car. Btw changing the tyre pressures by a trifling 2 psi front-rear (ie 4 psi difference) would alter the handing balance from under to oversteer, so they were basically a very neutral machine. Gee it handled well


I'd imagine so
I wouldn't neccesarily rate them as joyrides, but hard to forget and they certainly got my attention :eek:

[fpv_gtho]

Your a lucky bastard nota...

You mustve wondered at some point what another gear couldve gotten out of it. Even HSV's and FPV's dont pull max revs out of 5th and thats with a 6 speed box.

[2ndclasscitizen]

Yeah, the T5-equppied ones must've been capable of some fast numbers

[nota]

The 5 speed was a $2500 option over the standard M21 'black iron' 4 speed. I thought hard about the T5 but that was a lot of money at the time and I couldn't justify it then. Btw, VK Group A was the first Holden with roller rockers and was initially going to be rated @ 200kw, but dropped to 196 at release. Even that was reputedly an optimistic figure. The Group 3 engine was a better street unit, with more torque

Modern Motor did a test of a VK Brock Director (the luxury model, in Group 3 tune) which had the T5 as standard. From memory they recorded 151mph, with a best of 156 or so! The mag claimed it would have to be close to being the world's fastest four-door of the day

[2ndclasscitizen]

Modern Motor did a test of a VK Brock Director (the luxury model, in Group 3 tune) which had the T5 as standard. From memory they recorded 151mph, with a best of 156 or so! The mag claimed it would have to be close to being the world's fastest four-door of the dayJeez, a VY SS would struggle to match that

[fpv_gtho]

Thats only a touch under 250km/h, VY SS's have been tested at 265km/h

[SlickHolden]

Now my brother telling me getting wheel spin in a Brock VL in 3rd gear sounds right:D.

[2ndclasscitizen]

Thats only a touch under 250km/h, VY SS's have been tested at 265km/h
Most of MOTORs test of the VYs have topped out at around 240-250kmh

[fpv_gtho]

Wheels in January 03 as part of their "Speedfest" test got an SV8 to 263km/h along Avalon airport.

[Sid447]

Most of MOTORs test of the VYs have topped out at around 240-250kmh

I think most of the cars have the speed-limit set at around 240kph.
A few I've looked at (reading the PCM with EFI-Live tuning software) were:
VT-2 ...240.0kph
VX-2 ...241.4
'04CV8..241.4
'06CV8 ..239.8
'06WK ..239.8

Usually stock powered LS1 cars without the speed limiter are good for around 260-265kph.