What is the skinny on Ford Falcons? [Archive]

Kitdy

10-13-2006, 09:43 PM

Spastik_Roach

10-13-2006, 09:53 PM

Reliable as....many Taxi companies have 500,000km+ Falcons and Commodores....not exactly the most agile cars in the world I suppose but quite powerful and the sporting models are really quite quick....the other Aussie/NZ members will give you more in-depth information i'm sure!

Daz27

10-13-2006, 10:00 PM

Hey, I bolted some 17's and some decent rubber on my AU and with a bit of fortitude I can get through corners at double or more there 'reccomended' speed.... For 1.7 tonnes of metal, they plenty agile.

adrenaline

10-13-2006, 10:26 PM

Ford Falcons are the second highest selling car in Australia. They are (obviously) a large sedan, but also come in wagon and utility variants. They have a variety of power options, depending on the model.

For the base models (XT and Futura) there is the Barra 190 (an inline 6) with 190kW of power. There is an optional E-gas variant of the Barra engine which runs on gas, and an optional V8 (with 230kW).

http://www.ford.com.au/global/img/range/falcon/hero_xtsedan.jpg
http://www.ford.com.au/global/img/range/falcon/hero_futurasedan.jpg

For the sports models, being the XR6, XR6 Turbo and XR8, there are threee engines. The XR6 runs on a standard Barra190. The car itself is decked out with sports exteriors/ interiors and suspension.

http://www.ford.com.au/global/img/range/falcon/hero_xr6.jpg

The XR6 Turbo is a beast. It builds on the XR6, with the exception that is runs a barra engine coupled to an intercooled turbo (by Garret Turbochargers). It delivers 245kW of power and ample speed. It is, in my opinion, the pick of the range. It is also the fastest.

http://www.ford.com.au/global/img/range/falcon/hero_xr6t.jpg

The XR8 is the V8, for those who love the sound. It too is a beast, with 260kW of power and builds on the features of the V6's. It is seen as the king of the jungle. It also comes with the distinct bonnet bulge (or for americans, "Hood")

http://www.ford.com.au/global/img/range/falcon/hero_xr8.jpg

The other models in the range are the luxury cars. These are the Fairmont and Fairmont Ghia, both running the Barra190 and come with premium everything. The Fairmont Ghia is the ultimate in Luxury.

http://www.ford.com.au/global/img/range/falcon/hero_fairmont.jpg
http://www.ford.com.au/global/img/range/falcon/hero_fairmontghia.jpg
http://www.ford.com.au/global/img/range/falcon/nameplate_interior04.jpg
http://www.ford.com.au/global/img/range/falcon/nameplate_interior05.jpg

As for driving, they handle beautifully. The Premium models come standard with the german ZF 6 speed Auto (as seen in Jaguars, Aston Martins and other Euro luxury brands). The XR6 Turbo handles the best in the range, with the most speed.

If you go beyond the Falcon performance, you have FPV (Ford Performance Vehicles). They turn Normal Falcons into jets:D The have a super V8 (290kW) and a mega version of the XR6's Turbo called the F6 Typhoon (with 270kW, 550nm of torque from a V6!!) The Typhoon beats the most expensive V8s at their own game.

For the information straight from Ford: http://www.ford.com.au/range/falcon/models/

The Options list:http://www.ford.com.au/global/pdf/range/falcon/falcon_range_specs.pdf

Ford Performance vehicles: www.fpv.com.au

Utlilties/ wagons: They are basically the same as the sedans (with slight interior differences)

Overall, the falcon represents brilliant Value, especially in the performance versions.

adrenaline

10-13-2006, 10:28 PM

Utilities:

http://www.ford.com.au/global/img/range/falconute/hero_xl.gif

http://www.ford.com.au/global/img/range/falconute/hero_xls.gif

http://www.ford.com.au/global/img/range/falconute/hero_rtv.gif

http://www.ford.com.au/global/img/range/falconute/hero_xr8.jpg

More random Falcon images:

(XT and XR8)
http://www.ford.com.au/global/img/range/falcon/nameplate_exterior03.jpg

(XR8)
http://www.ford.com.au/global/img/range/falcon/nameplate_exterior08.jpg

(Championship winning Falcon V8 Supercar)
http://www.ford.com.au/global/img/range/falcon/nameplate_exterior06.jpg

adrenaline

10-13-2006, 10:30 PM

FPV

GT:

http://www.fpv.com.au/media/19324/banner_gt.jpg

GT-P

http://www.fpv.com.au/media/19360/banner_gt-p.jpg

Pursuit:

http://www.fpv.com.au/media/19375/banner_superpursuit.jpg

Typhoon:

http://www.fpv.com.au/media/19380/banner_typhoon.jpg

clutch-monkey

10-13-2006, 10:31 PM

my uncle has a 2004 XR6 turbo with light mods. i nicked the keys off him once and subsequently scared the crap out of myself on a rainy day.

pimento

10-13-2006, 11:00 PM

"(with 270kW, 550nm of torque from a V6!!) "

To clarify, the Barra is an I6, not a V6. 4.0l. The V8 is.. 5.4l I think.

SlickHolden

10-14-2006, 12:22 AM

I, as an oblivious Canadian, have only read and seen pictures of Falcons. And not read much, as they are not really covered in NA magazines and I don't really have the chance to see them in person. I was just wondering if some Australians / New Zealanders could tell me what story with these cars. I think they are really sweet looking and seem to have decent power (and many different specifications), but it is different observing from the otherside of the world. Are they good to drive, reliable etc? And just how many different options are there for them? I wish they sold them here, as I would like to own one. :rolleyes: :D
Think of this, Anything you won't in a car you can have, It's very unique in Australia to have cars such as we have.
You got the everyday car family, then the sporty family car, Then the high powered models that can still be used as a family car it's very unique.
Prices are very good when compared to around the world, What they do is 2nd to none.

What everyone overseas Miss's out on we get:D

adrenaline

10-14-2006, 12:43 AM

"(with 270kW, 550nm of torque from a V6!!) "

To clarify, the Barra is an I6, not a V6. 4.0l. The V8 is.. 5.4l I think.

Oops, I did mention earlier that it was an inline 6. By V6 I meant to say 6 cylinder :o :o

csl177

10-14-2006, 02:22 AM

Think of this, Anything you won't in a car you can have, It's very unique in Australia to have cars such as we have.
You got the everyday car family, then the sporty family car, Then the high powered models that can still be used as a family car it's very unique.
Prices are very good when compared to around the world, What they do is 2nd to none.

What everyone overseas Miss's out on we get:D

It's a shame Ford won't let us have any of these. Wonder why? They could sell these in North America for sure. The styling is appealing, muscular and not retro at all... love the Pursuit Ute!

nota

10-14-2006, 02:37 AM

csl177

10-14-2006, 02:57 AM

Why would these enjoy a better fate than GTO? :confused:

There was a big clamour for those, until importation, then flopski

Maybe you're right... the GTO was looking good, lotsa press, and then nada. :confused: Maybe we like our Escalades and Navigators tooooo much.

adrenaline

10-14-2006, 03:25 AM

csl177

10-14-2006, 03:53 AM

The current Falcon can't be exported to the USA as it doesn't support LHD. It's been discussed many times before. The good news is the next generation Falcon will have LHD. In fact the NSW government gave them a grant squarely aimed at LHD development.

It's likely Ford would change the name from Falcon if they ever did bring them here.... our Falcon was always an economy car. The platform was the same as the first Mustang, though. And of course the Sprint version had a 260CI, later a 289 V8, pretty sporty. The last US Falcon was based on the Torino, but only lasted a year or two. 1971 and '72 I think.

Anyway, the pix of the Oz Fords look great. If they do bring a LHD version to the USA it would be nice to have the option. Nota's probably right though. Ford is having enough trouble here selling what it's got.

nota

10-14-2006, 05:34 AM

It's likely Ford would change the name from Falcon if they ever did bring them here.... our Falcon was always an economy car. The platform was the same as the first Mustang, though. And of course the Sprint version had a 260CI, later a 289 V8, pretty sporty. The last US Falcon was based on the Torino, but only lasted a year or two. 1971 and '72 I think.
For trivia, our current Falcon's base I-6 engine is technically quite contemporary, with features like DOHC with variable timing on both cams, coil-on-plug ignition, electronic throttle, fail-safe coolant protection, etc

Yet this latest engine block STILL shares its bore-centre spacings with its US-Falcon ancestor the 144cid I-6 of 1959 !!

A couple of other Falcon derivatives not in Adrenaline's informative overview are:

Territory a much praised Explorer-sized SUV in RWD or AWD which shares Falcon's structural engine nacelle, the 6cyl drivetrain, rear IRS and a few bits, but otherwise quite different including body

Fairlane & LTD, both of which are basically upmarket LWB variants of Falcon. These were once very popular vehicles but sales of both models have withered alarmingly in recent years

Ford has sold 288 Fairlanes in the first three months of 2006, down 24 per cent from 379 at the same time last year.

So far this year Ford has sold just seven examples of the flagship LTD.
http://www.drive.com.au/Editorial/ArticleDetail.aspx?ArticleId=11466

The above link about Fairlane possibly being dropped is a bit sad for Ford fans here, especially because of another bit of trivia for you :). Falcon is the second longest continuously running model name in the automotive world behind Fairlane, which first appeared locally in 1959. In Oz the Falcon traces back to 1960. (Fairlane debuted in the US in 1955 but the model has long since disappeared over there)

You guys in NA must find it amusing to see all these ancient Ford nameplates still in use down here .. Falcon, Futura, Fairlane & LTD :D

adrenaline

10-14-2006, 06:01 AM

There was talk a while back that the new long wheelbase falcon architecture would replace the panther architecture for the 2009 Crown Vic. I don't see that happening, as LWB in Australia is a dying breed, and Ford couldn't possibly be smart enough to share platforms globally like GM is doing with commodore :D They would rather develop two different LWB platforms on different sides of the world for use on the same kind of vehicle. :D If only they merged the Falcon and 500...It's just common sense. But they don't.

adrenaline

10-14-2006, 06:06 AM

The above link about Fairlane possibly being dropped is a bit sad for Ford fans here, especially because of another bit of trivia for you . Falcon is the second longest continuously running model name in the automotive world behind Fairlane, which first appeared locally in 1959. In Oz the Falcon traces back to 1960. (Fairlane debuted in the US in 1955 but the model has long since disappeared over there)

The American Fairlane concept is confirmed for production (2008). I'd say it's likely they will rename the production model though. In other news, I drove an Aussie Fairlane Ghia today:D

acfsambo

10-14-2006, 06:22 AM

For the base models (XT and Futura) there is the Barra 190 (an inline 6) with 190kW of power. There is an optional E-gas variant of the Barra engine which runs on gas, and an optional V8 (with 230kW).
it actually has 260kw

syko

10-14-2006, 06:39 AM

it actually has 260kw

Its 230 kw for the SOHC version of the v8. You can only get the DOHC version on the xr8, not on normal falcons

2ndclasscitizen

10-14-2006, 07:03 AM

Its 230 kw for the SOHC version of the v8. You can only get the DOHC version on the xr8, not on normal falconsDoes anyone else think that Ford might be limiting themselves a bit by doing that? I mean you can get a boggo-spec SS, or a Calais, or Berlina with a 270kw 6lt V8

syko

10-14-2006, 07:20 AM

I guess they are, I would love to see what a fairmont ghia looked like with meaner wheels and a bonnet bulge.

2ndclasscitizen

10-14-2006, 07:24 AM

I guess they are, I would love to see what a fairmont ghia looked like with meaner wheels and a bonnet bulge.
Actually, I don't think a bonnet bulge would suit the look and style of the Fairmont, so probably no 260kw one then...oh well, they can make a turbo one then!

NSXType-R

10-14-2006, 10:22 AM

Mr.Tiv

10-14-2006, 10:59 AM

Ford really sucks. They should have realized that the models here suck and pre engineered the Falcons for left hand drive. If they did, they wouldn't be losing out on a potential new market. Now they just have to sit and wait for the new platform while their profits go on a nosedive.
I don't see how you can justify that statement. Ford's US line up might be extraordinarilly unimpressive, but the do make some pretty good cars. The Focus ST is quite nice. They made the Puma, and are partial owners of Mazda-who are responsible for the Rx8. Ford has made some good decisions over the years, resulting in some great cars. The Rs200, Rs2000 and so many more cars were fantastic and came with a blue oval on the front.

NSXType-R

10-14-2006, 01:16 PM

Alright. I'll justify by saying that their product lineup (in North America) is extremely boring. The GT's gone. The Thunderbird and Ford 500 were both flops. The Mustang is the only thing basically keeping alive. The Fusion/Zephyr/Milan are all uninspiring, although an improvement from the past. Mazda's doing fine, but the Fords are all just... so boring. Besides that, the trucks are all doing fine, but I'm not a truck guy. Just my opinion.

Mr.Tiv

10-14-2006, 01:31 PM

Fords are still good cars. Just because they are boring, doesn't mean they suck. That would be like me saying Honda sucks because I find them boring.

SlickHolden

10-14-2006, 02:11 PM

It's a shame Ford won't let us have any of these. Wonder why? They could sell these in North America for sure. The styling is appealing, muscular and not retro at all... love the Pursuit Ute!
No LHD at the moment, But if more of you guys ask for them and show interest they might have no choice but to call Aus:D

Maybe you're right... the GTO was looking good, lotsa press, and then nada. :confused: Maybe we like our Escalades and Navigators tooooo much.
Pontiac added ugly too the beautiful Monaro:(

There was talk a while back that the new long wheelbase falcon architecture would replace the panther architecture for the 2009 Crown Vic. I don't see that happening, as LWB in Australia is a dying breed, and Ford couldn't possibly be smart enough to share platforms globally like GM is doing with commodore :D They would rather develop two different LWB platforms on different sides of the world for use on the same kind of vehicle. :D If only they merged the Falcon and 500...It's just common sense. But they don't.
Thats good new, I got one word for the CV.......Shit:p

Ford really sucks. They should have realized that the models here suck and pre engineered the Falcons for left hand drive. If they did, they wouldn't be losing out on a potential new market. Now they just have to sit and wait for the new platform while their profits go on a nosedive.
WTF!? Ford US suck it's there fault if they wanted real cars they should have ask Ford Oz too engineer LHD cars now they suffer blame the yanks:p.

NSXType-R

10-14-2006, 02:20 PM

Fords are still good cars. Just because they are boring, doesn't mean they suck. That would be like me saying Honda sucks because I find them boring.

Compare Ford US to Ford Euro or Australia, Ford US is so different. The product offerings are so varied that it's like night and day. The offerings in Europe or Australia are so much better than the ones in North America. I find it offensive that they don't offer them here. America is missing out big time. I bet you that if they ported them over to here that the Americans would love the Falcons. It's like a 4 door Mustang. With decreasing truck sales, they better bring a good sedan over here.

Sorry SlickHolden, I wasn't blaming the Aussies, I was blaming the Americans for not noticing that no one likes the Ford products in the US. It's like Ford US is completely blind! They don't realize that they could offer better products here in America but they don't offer them anyway.

Mr.Tiv

10-14-2006, 02:24 PM

Compare Ford US to Ford Euro or Australia, Ford US is so different. The product offerings are so varied that it's like night and day. The offerings in Europe or Australia are so much better than the ones in North America. I find it offensive that they don't offer them here. America is missing out big time. I bet you that if they ported them over to here that the Americans would love the Falcons. It's like a 4 door Mustang. With decreasing truck sales, they better bring a good sedan over here.

Sorry SlickHolden, I was only reffering to the products in America. I actually like the Australian products.
I agree with you. They need uprgraded product lines, and yes the Euro and Aus produsct are more impressive, that doesn't make what they sell here bad.

SlickHolden

10-14-2006, 02:24 PM

You would probably get a Falcon with 390HP 6 speed auto for the price of a stang:D. And a XR6 Turbo for the price of a stang 6 almost.

nota

10-14-2006, 04:10 PM

.. and an optional V8 (with 230kW).
it actually has 260kw
Its 230 kw for the SOHC version of the v8. You can only get the DOHC version on the xr8, not on normal falcons
It's now been upgraded to 235kW hasn't it? :p

Unlike the locally assembled Falcon quadcam V8, the SOHC V8 variant is imported FBU (fully built up) straight from Canada. My mate's wife has an base-model '03 auto (pic) with the SOHC V8. She uses it tow her double horse float, as Falcons are rated to tow a substantial 2300kg. The engine itself sounds good with a nice metallic snarl to it. It's great to drive, handles well too and the V8 has fantastic torque right from down low. With the LSD you simply plant the foot from idle and instantly get two black lines for a good distance. Redline is 5250rpm which must be one of the lowest petrol-engine redlines currently of any car in the world (!) but likely will prove highly durable

Ford deserve kudos in that their base-spec Falcon 6cyl still comes standard with a manual gearbox, so unlike Holden you don't have to upspec to a sporty model if you prefer to self-shift. Holden's manual models start with their pricier SV6. It's a pity though that Ford no longer offers a manual five-speed with the SOHC V8 (due to low demand) as imo this combo provided an inexpensive and discrete way to enjoy the V8-Manual experience - yet avoid those exhorbitant insurance or ridiculous tyre-replacement costs of the sporty models

092326001

10-14-2006, 05:17 PM

the falcons are awesome
the ford NA people reallyare stupid
they offer the stupid and most pointless cars
they split the old taurus into three cars fusion(lower class),500(higher class),adventure or something like that for the wGON

clutch-monkey

10-14-2006, 05:23 PM

i quite like the falcon, for a swiss army knife of a car it really does fit the bill.

Mr.Tiv

10-14-2006, 06:08 PM

Does it have irs?

acfsambo

10-14-2006, 06:32 PM

I personally theing the GTHO Phase III is the best falcon ever made.

A Thing of beauty.

2ndclasscitizen

10-14-2006, 07:09 PM

Does it have irs?
Yep. Ford call it "Control Blade IRS" it's a mulit-link system.

pimento

10-14-2006, 08:27 PM

Yep. Ford call it "Control Blade IRS" it's a mulit-link system.

I believe it's related to the system in the Focus, but I might be wrong there.

NSXType-R

10-14-2006, 08:42 PM

I agree with you. They need uprgraded product lines, and yes the Euro and Aus produsct are more impressive, that doesn't make what they sell here bad.

But when you compare the product lineup side by side, you realize that you're missing a hell of a lot here in North America. In my opinion, Ford products in North America really sucks compared to what they could offer. Just look at Europe and Australia.

adrenaline

10-14-2006, 11:01 PM

It's now been upgraded to 235kW hasn't it? :p

To my knowledge, it was 220kW at BA, then 230kW at BF. (Remember the G220 fairlane, which is now called the G8)

2ndclasscitizen

10-14-2006, 11:18 PM

I believe it's related to the system in the Focus, but I might be wrong there.
The Focus' system is called the same thing, but I don't know how similar they are

Kitdy

10-14-2006, 11:52 PM

Wow. I am really impressed. It's a great idea for Ford to offer such a range of options and the like. I actually remember reading an article a while ago suggesting the Falcon could make Ford a lot of cash in North America. That's why I was initally interested. I love the look of the car and by the sounds of it, for the price, it is one of the better cars out there. That GT model is so sweet. Bring on the LHDs! In fact, I am can drive RHD no problem, my family often visits Scotland... Hell, if I ever visit Australia (which I will) I think I'll rent one :D

syko

10-14-2006, 11:53 PM

I think the main problem with ford NA is that they want to build and design all there own cars. For some reason its seems that they think that if there going to sell a car in NA then they should be able to build it and design it just as good as any other of the ford arms. The most recent example of this is the US focus vs the Euro focus. Instead of swaping over to the new one they decided to refreash the old one. Makes no sense really but they did it anyway so that there designers had some input into the car.

One of the main things people fail to realise is how independent the different ford groups operate. In some cases yes it is easy to for ford aus to say "the new focus is ready we want it, build more in south africa for us thanks" but thats because ford aus don't have there own product they want to push.
If ford aus then turned around and said to ford NA we have a large rwd sedan do you want it. The obvious answer from from for NA would be NO we already have a product they we engineered and build so.

The issue of LHD aside they can't just stick a new car in there line up when they already have models that fill that role. Maybe if the the E8 or orion falcon coinsided with the ending of some models in NA then it could happen but you can bet that the NA engineers and designers would want there own input into the car.

Kitdy

10-15-2006, 12:01 AM

Seems kinda silly for them not to have good cohesion. I think that the Falcon would do really, really well in NA. When I try to think of Ford's "standard" sedan, Fusion comes to mind, but I think it is a hunk of crap - stylistically. The Falcon is like the new mustang (muscle car looks), BUT with four doors for the family, and with different options for better performance. If it was in North America, it should be their standard sedan. The 500? How many of those do you see on the road. Same with the Fusion. The Falcon seems to be the intelligent choice. Hell, the Focus had to be stolen from Europe and people LOVE that car (at least here in Toronto) - and as far as I know, the Mondeo is tearing it up in Europe. If there is no room in Ford's lineup for the Falcon, they should make room.

nota

10-15-2006, 01:40 AM

To my knowledge, it was 220kW at BA, then 230kW at BF. (Remember the G220 fairlane, which is now called the G8)
:o Oops & touche. Sorry about that - you were right and I'm wrong :)

I drove an Aussie Fairlane Ghia today
What did you think of it?

fpv_gtho

10-15-2006, 02:05 AM

Some points here -

Clearly the 3V V8 Ford sticks in the Falcon, known as the Triton V8 in the US, is being severely hobbled, notably by a diesel rev limit and a severely choked exhaust from what ive heard. Nota said it had alot of low down torque. Well that would be the VCT working, something the 4V V8's dont have. People that have driven both a GT and a normal Falcon V8 say that the 3V engine feels just as much, perhaps more torquey down low than the 290kw, 520nm GT. The GT makes 400nm at 1000rpm btw, the XR8 makes it at 2000rpm.

The government and Ford might say that the grant that was handed out by the VICTORIAN government, not NSW, is what contributed to the 2008 Orion Falcon being developed for LHD. Whats more realistic however is now that Ford Australia are developing the next generation Ford Ranger (due in 2010, available in both LHD and RHD, will be sold to over 80 countries) they'll actually have the technology and development to know what theyre doing. The government grant is simply a reason to spend the extra money as Ford global thinks they can flog off 30yo tech sedans to the Middle East, notably a major export market for Holden and Toyota who import 21st century sedans there.

The control blade IRS the Falcon uses works exactly the same as it does in the Focus and on the Jaguar X-type i believe. Its simply the first time its been used for RWD purposes. The Falcon uses 3 lateral links and one longitudinal link. Its this extra link thats known as the control blade, which control's the body's movement under dive, such as acceleration and braking. One weakness of IRS has always been how easily they "squat" under hard acceleration, and this extra link is aimed at preventing that.

nota

10-15-2006, 03:16 AM

Some points here -

Clearly the 3V V8 Ford sticks in the Falcon, known as the Triton V8 in the US, is being severely hobbled, notably by a diesel rev limit and a severely choked exhaust from what ive heard. Nota said it had alot of low down torque. Well that would be the VCT working, something the 4V V8's dont have. People that have driven both a GT and a normal Falcon V8 say that the 3V engine feels just as much, perhaps more torquey down low than the 290kw, 520nm GT. The GT makes 400nm at 1000rpm btw, the XR8 makes it at 2000rpm.
I had heard that the 3V heads are pretty decent and that this donk has a lot of untapped potential. I've been lucky enough to have a few drives in the Falcon I mentioned (as well as another mate's VT2 SS) and by comparison the Ford had stacks more 'instant-on' mumbo at normal revs, especially from idle, which makes for an enjoyable driver. We both did about 5 standing-starts, none with brake-torque, all of which resulted in dual lines of 3 car-lengths or more. Just plant it and you're gone. Pretty impressive result for a low-profile & supposedly non-sporty sedan

Btw his wife's insurance premium on this 3V V8 is cheaper than her previous '00 Holden Astra 1.8 litre 4 banger! :eek:

The government and Ford might say that the grant that was handed out by the VICTORIAN government, not NSW ..
Wondered why the Feds would hand out to the NSW govt, for a Vic based company! :D

The control blade IRS the Falcon uses works exactly the same as it does in the Focus and on the Jaguar X-type i believe. Its simply the first time its been used for RWD purposes. The Falcon uses 3 lateral links and one longitudinal link. Its this extra link thats known as the control blade, which control's the body's movement under dive, such as acceleration and braking. One weakness of IRS has always been how easily they "squat" under hard acceleration, and this extra link is aimed at preventing that.
FPV_GTHO, Ive forgotten which other non-Oz Ford vehicles it was that shared the AU-model Falcon's IRS (eg Lincoln LS/Jag S-Type, or Mustang?) and would be grateful if you could clarify. I remember Ford proudly touting the AU IRS system as being suitable for heavy towing, without the squat that blighted Commodore VP-VZ IRS

SlickHolden

10-15-2006, 03:58 AM

fpv_gtho

10-15-2006, 09:30 PM

fpv_gtho

10-15-2006, 09:33 PM

I was wondering how much it would cost too have my rear converted too IRS:D.
Your right about squat i have seen so many holden IRS cars sit hard down on the rear on take off. the VE doesn't do this one past me 21" chrome mo fo pimp my VE 3" lower pimp me out:p Flat as a tack now.

I thought VN had some models with IRS. If so, just pick one up from a wrecker and it should be able to drop straight in. You may also need a new driveshaft, it depends on how the diff lines up compared to the live axle.

The weird thing about the semi trailing arm setup Holdens always used (till now) is how the suspension arm geometry is. Theyre not parallel with the driveshafts and are angled back towards the centre of the car, so that all has effects on the wheel travel, as well as camber change through motion which has led to so many issues with tyre wear.

IBrake4Rainbows

10-15-2006, 11:06 PM

VP Commodore Calais IIRC had IRS - I recall an ad where they drove half on bitumen half off and it showed the difference - the non-irs car was jiggly :)

2ndclasscitizen

10-15-2006, 11:40 PM

Holden has had IRS since the VN I'm pretty sure, definately since the VP, but it only became standard on the VS

nota

10-16-2006, 11:04 AM

Im not too sure which it would be Nota. Most of what i know about the AU's IRS was that its a double wishbone setup rather than multilink, and had a complex subframe in order to fit under the rear. That subframe put alot of unneeded weight there, and in the case of the 2 XR6's Ford sold, it was enough to make the more powerful, better handling IRS equipped XR6 VCT slower than the live axled XR6.

It may have been the last generation Mustang (99-04) as the Mustang Cobra's that Tickford converted locally were IRS. Now theyve all gone to the 3 link live axle. The Jag S type also has a "wishbone type" rear end and the LS would be the same, so that one also looks a possibility.

Thanks for your input. I think it was from the Jaguar but couldn't conclusively recall. These days there's too many facts to remember but not enough neurons :mad:

One tidbit that I did manage to retain was that the AU's IRS was also available as a 'high ride' in the Country Pack as, unlike Holden's IRS in VP-VZ, the Ford system allowed geometry to be maintained when ride-level was raised

In Fordspeak via the '98 AU press release

"Ford Australia drew on the latest of Ford's worldwide leading edge technology and computer resources to help bring the AU from paper to pavement. The new IRS in the AU Fairmont Ghia and Falcon XR6 VCT and XR8 is a good example of this process. We studied existing and planned Ford IRS systems around the world, selected the most suitable (which was a new, yet-to-be-launched, state-of-the-art system), then comprehensively changed it to fit into the Falcon and to incorporate further engineering features needed for our local and export environments"
As you see the Mustang IRS looks quite distinct from the unit used in AU Falcon (pics) and Ford's only other donor IRS RWD candidate was via the DEW98 Jag/Lincoln/T-Bird, so I guess that was it eh?

kigango123

10-16-2006, 11:12 AM

nice, i want the truck version.

2ndclasscitizen

10-16-2006, 03:31 PM

They're not trucks, they're utes

kigango123

10-16-2006, 03:41 PM

They're not trucks, they're utes

alright i want the "ute", what is a ute by the way

2ndclasscitizen

10-16-2006, 05:29 PM

Small utility vehicles built off a standard car chassis with a load bed.

SlickHolden

10-16-2006, 05:52 PM

I thought VN had some models with IRS. If so, just pick one up from a wrecker and it should be able to drop straight in. You may also need a new driveshaft, it depends on how the diff lines up compared to the live axle.

The weird thing about the semi trailing arm setup Holdens always used (till now) is how the suspension arm geometry is. Theyre not parallel with the driveshafts and are angled back towards the centre of the car, so that all has effects on the wheel travel, as well as camber change through motion which has led to so many issues with tyre wear.
They made some VP 5lt Executives with IRS about 5-6 of them i think.
I'll speak too my friend and see if it's real easy too do get better rear grip or maybe a smoother ride? But first thing too get on a holden IRS Camber kit:D

VP Commodore Calais IIRC had IRS - I recall an ad where they drove half on bitumen half off and it showed the difference - the non-irs car was jiggly :)
You should see my car now:D Since lowering it it's more stable but my panhard rod bushes are gone so it's hitting Sharp hard pot hole in the road and jiggling over the place. Nice on good surface but:).

Holden has had IRS since the VN I'm pretty sure, definately since the VP, but it only became standard on the VS
Yep statesman was the first Ginny pig in VN:), I have seen some live rears in the VS but none in VT. I almost had a Calais:(.

fpv_gtho

10-17-2006, 03:17 AM

Thanks for your input. I think it was from the Jaguar but couldn't conclusively recall. These days there's too many facts to remember but not enough neurons :mad:

One tidbit that I did manage to retain was that the AU's IRS was also available as a 'high ride' in the Country Pack as, unlike Holden's IRS in VP-VZ, the Ford system allowed geometry to be maintained when ride-level was raised

In Fordspeak via the '98 AU press release

As you see the Mustang IRS looks quite distinct from the unit used in AU Falcon (pics) and Ford's only other donor IRS RWD candidate was via the DEW98 Jag/Lincoln/T-Bird, so I guess that was it eh?

I think the "yet to be launched" bit just about confirms its adapted from the S-Type. You can see in that picture also how the suspension towers look to be compatible with those from the live axle. The BA's system in comparison has much shorter springs.

I'll speak too my friend and see if it's real easy too do get better rear grip or maybe a smoother ride? But first thing too get on a holden IRS Camber kit

The biggest effect i'd say is what it does to the balance. It'll put alot more weight over the rear wheels, and fairly down low as well so it might remove some of the tail happyness VN-VP's are notorious for.

SlickHolden

10-17-2006, 06:08 AM

The biggest effect i'd say is what it does to the balance. It'll put alot more weight over the rear wheels, and fairly down low as well so it might remove some of the tail happyness VN-VP's are notorious for.
Tail happy who me:D:D... I took cyco for a spin and it was wet i was shitting about getting it loose and killing him:D j/k's:D.. I have worked out why they are tail happy too, Mine has great balance until it hit that small ditch in the ground and can lift the rear up on corners, Then it shifts the rear and if you going around in a hurry say like a set of lights it will slip out 2-3 foot.
That's what happen too me long long ago, Hit a what looked like small bump in the road going around a corner of lights and the rear hit real hard and as i hit it and turned sharp at good speed it went out. I don't know what could have been done too fix that but they needed something too stop that type of bump impact. And yet today i was in the back seat and it felt soft in the rear not hard so it's all over the place:D I need the panhard rod fixed.
I could deal with the weight only if it was better for handling. Get a L67 transplant:D

fpv_gtho

10-17-2006, 06:12 AM

Maybe they just screwed up the bound/rebound settings with the shocks, but most people generally just say VN-VP's lack weight in the rear end to keep them planted. As i said though, IRS should fix that as its worth about 100kg over a live axle looking at the AU and BA systems.

SlickHolden

10-17-2006, 06:16 AM

You probably got it right there they seem so light on the rear, When i removed my subwoofer box it went all over the place:D It's weight is 25kg, So i stuck it back in:D When we go too the footy and have a full load it's sweet but thats 1800kg all up 5 in the car. My brothers EF had great balance in the rear, It did hit bumps hard but was very safe feeling.
Maybe i should grab a 100litre drop tank:D.

fpv_gtho

10-17-2006, 06:19 AM

That would only work if you intend on keeping the existing tank. Otherwise youre looking at maybe 30L difference, which might only be 20-25kw. Might as well get another sub box and have a better sounding stereo :p

SlickHolden

10-17-2006, 06:26 AM

Thats a good idea i love the bass:D Doof doof:D Grab 3 subs:D 1 weights 14kg :eek:

clutch-monkey

10-17-2006, 09:50 PM

but most people generally just say VN-VP's lack weight in the rear end to keep them planted.
most people would appear to be right then :D
i wonder why people always put huge subs in the back, that car made me see why :D

SlickHolden

10-17-2006, 11:05 PM

You should have lowered yours:D Ask cyco it helps handles better even in the wet but you need good tyres thats helps:)

clutch-monkey

10-17-2006, 11:07 PM

i was even more skint then than i am now :D i should have left a bag of concrete in the back..

SlickHolden

10-17-2006, 11:16 PM

Tow a trailer:D It will bounce more:D.
I wonder did they ad something too the VP cause i have driven a VN and it's felt light and loud and just harsh feeling floating all over the place, And i here the story's of them getting out overtaking.
I did loose traction in the wet but a good set of tyres will and did stop that:)

clutch-monkey

10-17-2006, 11:18 PM

i had some very good tires on it at the time of the crash :D plus it was a 'vacationer' which presumably means floaty suspension :(

SlickHolden

10-17-2006, 11:21 PM

The VN should have been renamed too AS (Always Sideways) Commodore:D.
I know the VP has wider track this and that but other then that I'm not sure on weight but the VB sat better in the rear over big bounces, But after lowering it it's them little small ones that can rock the car that can lift it up at the rear now being stiffer. I should replace sway bars and bushes.

clutch-monkey

10-17-2006, 11:22 PM

i called the death trap, or the hoon mobile. :D
unintentional skids ftw!

crisis

10-17-2006, 11:27 PM

You should have lowered yours:D Ask cyco it helps handles better even in the wet but you need good tyres thats helps:)
I had a VH 253 with Monroe Wylie GT130 shockers and inserts with Pirelli tyres. I remember loving it. If I drove it now I would probably think it was cr@p.

clutch-monkey

10-17-2006, 11:28 PM

I had a VH 253 with Monroe Wylie GT130 shockers and inserts with Pirelli tyres. I remember loving it. If I drove it now I would probably think it was cr@p.
you can drive mine if you like, i know which wreckers i left it at :D
j/k but i have seen the new owners driving it around, in terrible condition..

SlickHolden

10-17-2006, 11:33 PM

i called the death trap, or the hoon mobile. :D
unintentional skids ftw!
You should have got a VP:D Unintentional locks up front brakes now:D

I had a VH 253 with Monroe Wylie GT130 shockers and inserts with Pirelli tyres. I remember loving it. If I drove it now I would probably think it was cr@p.
They were pretty tight handlers the old things:)... You might feel like someone cut the accelerator cable now:D.

you can drive mine if you like, i know which wreckers i left it at :D
j/k but i have seen the new owners driving it around, in terrible condition..
That's the way too treat cars I'm told, Never look after them no trouble, Look after then and there nothing but trouble:D
Brothers mate has a Magna waggon. 3 years it's been faultless, 3 years he has done nothing too it nothing at all. Last week he gave it a tune and it was the worst thing he could have did it's been playing up since:D.