2006 Wheels Car of the Year: what will win in a very strong field?

[motorsportnerd]

The 2006 model year has been a great year for new car releases. In its December 2006 issue, Wheels magazine has listed the cars which are eligible for the Wheels Car of the Year award. The January issue will reveal a shortlist, as nominated by a committee of the magazine’s senior editorial staff and contributors. Only the cars from the shortlist will be taken on the full drive programme. The 2006 Car of the Year will be announced in the February 2007 issue.

ELIGIBLE CARS
Alfa Romeo 159
Audi TT
Audi Q7
BMW 3-series Coupe
Dodge Caliber
Fiat Punto
Holden Commodore VE
Holden Statesman/Caprice WM
Holden Captiva
Honda Civic
Honda Legend
Hyundai Accent
Hyundai Elantra
Hyundai Grandeur
Hyundai Santa Fe
Jeep Commander
Kia Magentis
Mazda CX-7
Mercedes-Benz S-Class
Mercedes-Benz R-Class
Mercedes-Benz GL-Class
Mitsubishi Colt CC
Mitsubishi Outlander
Peugeot 407 Coupe
Porsche Cayman
Ssangyong Kyron
Subaru Tribeca
Toyota Camry
Toyota Aurion
Toyota RAV4
Volkswagen Jetta
Volkswagen Passat
Volkswagen Caddy Life
Volvo C70


The criteria for the award are:
FUNCTION (how well the car drives, performance, packaging, ergonomics, comfort, refinement)
EFFICIENCY (fuel consumption and environmental issues, advances in production/manufacturing methods that result in improved efficiencies)
TECHNOLOGY (advances and innovation - at a reasonable price)
SAFETY (active and passive)
VALUE (does the car deliver a worthy blend of abilities and qualities for the price).

Cars eligible are any car released during the 2005 model year is eligible, providing that it meets the following requirements:
NEWNESS - that the car scores at least two ticks against the following: New Design and Purpose, New Dimensions and New Technology
SEATBELTS - cars must have a lap-sash seatbelt in every model.
SALES - at least 250 a year must sell - hence no exotica qualify.

The following cars are ineligible for the award.
Doesn’t meet newness criteria: Subaru Legacy, Holden Viva, Holden Barina.
Doesn’t meet sales criteria: Alfa Romeo Brera, BMW Z4 Coupe, Jaguar XK (these three surprise me – I would’ve thought they’d meet the sales criteria or at least get close), Ferrari 599 GTB Fiorano, Lamborghini Murcielago LP640, Lamborghini Gallardo Spyder, Lotus Exige S. There’s always Motor’s Performance Car of the Year for all of these cars though.
Safety: Kia Carnival/Grand Carnival, Nissan Tiida, Proton Savvy.

[motorsportnerd]

This year the award will be fought out by some outstanding new releases. There is an obvious favourite (no prizes for guessing). There are some sleepers in the field.
In alphabetical order, the following are the cars I think which will figure prominently. One of the following should win.

Alfa Romeo 159: fantastic looking car that appears to be excellent value for money when considering the market it is aimed at. Apparently very refined to drive. The JTD diesel variants show the inroads that diesel is starting to make even in Australia. A diesel in an Alfa??? Anyway, Wheels notes that the heavier diesel doesn’t handle as well as the petrol variants. Not sure that the 159 has any real noteworthy technological advancements, but it should do well.
Audi TT & Q7: both look good on paper and both are stylish. The Q7 has had some excellent reviews. The TT looks like a proper sports car this time. Both will struggle against the value for money criteria and there’s a strong argument they are limited in appeal. Wheels notes that neither is particularly good dynamically.
BMW 3-series Coupe – the sedan failed to win last year. Not sure how well the Coupe will do. The 335Ci has a brilliant engine. The lesser engine are apparently not too bad either. This will help it against the performance criteria. May spring a surprise.
Fiat Punto: return of the Italian marque to Australia. The car looks good, but seems a little expensive. Not sure about the quality either based on the motor show display cars I looked over. However, has excellent crash safety, decent dynamics and ride and the 1.3 turbo-diesel looks interesting. Another dark horse.
Holden Commodore VE: The V8 models are outstanding against the value, safety and function criteria and the suspension design should help it against the technology criteria. If the Calais-V, with its brilliant blend of luxury, value, performance and dynamics could stand as a separate model range to the rest of the VE range it would take home the award. The SS-V won’t hurt the VE’s chance either. But, the six-cylinder models may hurt Holden’s chances of taking the award with the VE. The appearance of a four-speed auto and non-standard air conditioning in the Omega won’t help. The Alloytec six-cylinder engine is still behind the class standard. The VE is one of three cars that are eligible that I’ve actually driven, and I’m afraid that the six-cylinder Commodores aren't quite enough of an advance. But, the VE is still the favourite and the strengths of the V8 models may well be enough. If the VE wins it will in realty be a win for the Calais-V, whatever Wheels may say about giving the award to the whole range.
Holden Statesman/Caprice WM: If the VE can’t win the award for Holden, they have a fallback in the excellent Statesman/Caprice models. Outstand value for money, and a decent drive as well. Only problem is that the six-cylinder version of the Statesman is more expensive than the Calais-V, and it has that same Alloytec that I don’t believe is quite good enough. The Statesman/Caprice is a strong even money chance to take the win, and will have extremely good odds on a top-three place.
Holden Captiva: No doubting the value here. Not really a serious Territory competitor and not as innovative as the 2004 COTY winner either. However, Wheels has very few criticisms of the Captiva, and its probably near the top of the SUV class. Three of its rivals (CX-7, RAV4 and Outlander) are also eligible this year. Possible top ten contender.
Honda Civic: won plenty of awards last year in Europe, but that was for the hatch that Australia doesn’t get. Apparently has excellent drivetrains, innovative dash design, and good handling. Steering is a let down. Excellent value for money though, with plenty of standard kit, and does well against the intended function criteria. Another possible top ten contender.
Honda Legend: This is probably Honda’s best chance. Very impressive technologically, with its sophisticated AWD system and V6 engine. By all accounts a decent drive. The price isn’t too bad either, but at $74,500 it is against more established Euro brands.
Mazda CX-7: apparently the best handling, most sporty SUV ever. Also looks very nice. And it has a detuned version of the Mazda6 MPS 2.3 litre turbo engine. So, will do very well against function, efficiency, and technology criteria. The safety criteria and value criteria shouldn’t be a problem either. Potentially the darkest of all dark horses. Lets not forget that Ford/ Mazda (remember Mazda is largely owned by Ford) products have won the last four awards (Falcon BA, Mazda RX8, Territory and Mazda MX5). This car has a very, very strong chance of making it five in a row.
Mercedes S-Class: How can one of the world’s best cars not have a strong chance? Two previous versions of the S-Class have won – in 1981 and 1999. The expensive S-Class’s main problem is against the Value criteria. Looking at Wheels summary on the car suggests very few criticisms – limited to suggesting some of its styling cues are BMW 7-series rip off and that the AMG S63 and S65 variants aren’t available yet. One of the top contenders for sure.
Mercedes R-Class & GL-Class: these two will fly under the radar a bit compared to the S-Class. The GL-Class has just won Motor Trend’s SUV of the Year in America, and Wheels main criticisms are off poor rear visibility, the diesels lack power and steering could be better. The R-Class is an interesting vehicle that is almost in a class of its own. Again Wheels has few criticisms. Where both will struggle is that they are expensive. But, either one could spring a surprise.
Toyota Camry: A major advance of the old model, but still can’t quite cut the pace against the class-leading Mazda6. The Camry will probably struggle to make it past the first round. But as one of the four all-new Australia built cars release this year, it can't be completely overlooked. Unfortunately, the Camry’s biggest problem is its sibling, the….
Toyota Aurion: Whatever you think of this car, a Camry V6 it is not. I’ve driven one and reported back to UCP – so see that report for my conclusions. A serious contender, the main problem the Aurion has is that it was released the same year as the emotional favourite, the Commodore VE. The Aurion, is in my opinion, the class leader amongst Australian six-cylinder cars, mostly due to its fantastic V6 engine/six-speed auto which will help it score strong marks against the technology and efficiency criteria. Stong marks against function, value and safety are also a given. However, no matter how well it does against the criteria, a win for the Aurion would be too controversial. I just can’t see Wheels giving it the award. Then again, they could surprise me and have the balls to see off the potential lost advertising from Holden and departure of some of the readership who won’t believe it. Top 5, probably even top 3, for sure, but a win seems unlikely.
Toyota RAV4 – Toyota’s third contender this year. The only reason I’m mentioning it is that it is the third of the contenders I have driven. Will do well against the function criteria thanks to its flexible and efficient use of interior space. However, it has just adequate dynamics with too much body roll and too light steering. And the 2.4 litre engine struggles with the weight of the body. Old fashioned four speed auto also a disappointment considering the Camry gets a five-speed auto.
Volkswagen Passat/Jetta: The Passat is one of the strongest contenders this year, particularly in V6 4Motion format, where it seems to be outstanding value. I wonder how many potential Calais six buyers will look at this car and decide not to buy the Holden? The TDi and 2.0T versions don’t let the side down either. So value, function, efficiency, safety and technology criteria are all met. Only let down – apparently the steering on the four cylinder versions could be better and it looks dull. The Passat is a very strong top 5 contender. The Jetta can’t be dismissed either, despite the fact it is basically a Golf with a boot. Wheels notes that the DSG Turbo variant at just $39,990 is a performance bargain. Steering feel apparently a problem.

It is really hard to cut those contenders down to just a few. I didn’t even bother to mention any of the Hyundais, the Ssangyong, Volvo C70, Subaru Tribeca, Kia or Jeep. I don’t see any having a chance. The Porsche Cayman is too focused a sports car, and I doubt it’ll make the first cut. The Mitsubishi Outlander may do okay – New Zealand reports suggest it is a better car than the RAV4, but its unlikely to match the Mazda CX-7. The Colt is probably too expensive and not innovative enough.

So, what do I think will win? Statesman/Caprice. Though the V8 versions of the VE may just be enough to lift the favourite to the top. I’ll be a little disappointed if the VE wins though, simply because I don’t believe the VE Omega is COTY material even if the top end variants are.
So, Statesman/Caprice or VE will win, Aurion, S-Class, CX-7 and Passat are the next strongest contenders I believe.
However, personally I hope Wheels has the balls to give the Aurion an unbiased showing and allow it to compete on its merits. If Wheels does have the balls, I think that the Aurion will run the WM and VE ranges very, very close. I suspect that the emotional appeal of the two Holden contenders and commercial realities of selling magazines and advertising revenue will win out, but I hope I’m wrong. Hopefully neither Holden wins the award for these reasons, but rather either one wins on merit. My tip for a dark horse contender? The Mazda CX-7. This looks like a very strong and deserving contender.
I can’t remember another year with so many really strong contenders.

[motorsportnerd]

So what will win? Or, just as important, what should win? The two questions may have very different answers.
I've included a poll this year as well.

[SlickHolden]

Ive always had the feeling the Caprice would get it, It's priced better then before and has more bells and whistles then ever.

I'll let you know how the 195 engine runs if i get it... But on the 1st of December if you here a man gone crazy in Avis Melbourne Airport tossing people around the place slapping the VZ Calais's and throwing phones crowe style.... that's not me:)

[shaht]

s class is the top of the top !!

[silverhawk]

Mazda CX7.

[fpv_gtho]

Ive got a feeling VE will win. In '02, the XR6T contributed largely to the BA Falcon being handed the crown, as did the option of RWD for the Territory in '04. If the V models truly are THAT good, it could overshadow the dissapointments of Omega.

VE Commodore, WM Statesman/Caprice, Aurion, CX-7 and Passat for top 5.

[henk4]

Out of this lot? The Alfa 159 for sure, hope they get the 200 BHP Multijet engine down under, but I doubt it...

[Blitz_]

VE for the win, an emotional won at that, also for the rep of the mag, in my personal opinion. Such a great year for cars, and all of Australia will have its eyes on this one.

1. VE
2. CX -7
3. Aurion

[adrenaline]

The BA won it in 2002, now it's Holden's turn with the VE :)

I chose Statesman/ Caprice. They offer alot of value and they look fantastic. I would take a V8 Caprice over a 5 Series on looks alone. They are also important for Holden's exporting ventures.

[Ferrer]

Out of this lot? The Alfa 159 for sure, hope they get the 200 BHP Multijet engine down under, but I doubt it...
I agree, altough the Punto it's also a good car.

[henk4]

I agree, altough the Punto it's also a good car.

it is also not Australian:)

[Ferrer]

it is also not Australian:)
Maybe they'll open their eyes one day... ;)

[man 430gt]

Alfa Romeo 159 All the way..

[motorsportnerd]

Ive always had the feeling the Caprice would get it, It's priced better then before and has more bells and whistles then ever.

I'll let you know how the 195 engine runs if i get it... But on the 1st of December if you here a man gone crazy in Avis Melbourne Airport tossing people around the place slapping the VZ Calais's and throwing phones crowe style.... that's not me:)

If they don't have a VE Calais for you, ask them for a Statesman WM. Hope for you sake they don't try to give you a Toyota Camry Grande, which has on the fleet and in the came rental class as the Calais.
Whatever they give you, look at it this way. You'll still have fun - it is a rental after all. And we still want a report.

[nota]

Maybe they'll open their eyes one day... ;)
We're not blind to absurd Fiat pricing, which is enough of an eye opener in itself :eek:

In Oz the cheapest Punto (1.4 petrol) is 25% more expensive than Ford Fiesta 1.6 LX (and even 12% over 2.0 litre Focus current-prices!) while Punto 1.9 diesel costs the same money as a Toyota Camry, Mitsubishi 380 V6 or VW Golf diesel (and 27% more than VW Polo diesel)

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,20398744-13232,00.html

[henk4]

We're not blind to absurd Fiat pricing, which is enough of an eye opener in itself :eek:

In Oz the cheapest Punto (1.4 petrol) is 25% more expensive than Ford Fiesta 1.6 LX (and even 12% over 2.0 litre Focus current-prices!) while Punto 1.9 diesel costs the same money as a Toyota Camry, Mitsubishi 380 V6 or VW Golf diesel (and 27% more than VW Polo diesel)

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,20398744-13232,00.html


smells like import taxes....

[nota]

smells like import taxes....
Of all the cars in my previous price list, every one bar Camry & Mitsu are also fully imported

Btw the Alfa 159 JTS 2.2 litre has similar price to a Holden Calais 6.0 litre, or turbo-6 Subaru Liberty (aka Legacy) :o

[henk4]

Of all the cars in my previous price list, every one bar Camry & Mitsu are also fully imported

Btw the Alfa 159 JTS 2.2 litre has similar price to a Holden Calais 6.0 litre, or turbo-6 Subaru Liberty (aka Legacy) :o

very strange, the European prices of Fiat (derivatives) are considered to be very low....

a Grande Punto Multijet 130 BHP costs 22795 Euro, a Polo 1.9TDi 130 BHP 25195 and the cheapest Golf Tdi 140 BHP cost 28880...

[nota]

very strange, the European prices of Fiat (derivatives) are considered to be very low....
smells like inter-euro subsidies .. (:D)

a Grande Punto Multijet 130 BHP costs 22795 Euro, a Polo 1.9TDi 130 BHP 25195 and the cheapest Golf Tdi 140 BHP cost 28880...
Fiat Punto 1.9TD Emotion or Sport are AU$28k, VW Polo 1.9TD is $23k, VW Golf 1.9TD is $28k, Peugeot 307 1.6TD is $29.5k, Citroen C4 1.6TD and Holden/Opel Astra 1.9TD are $30k, Holden/Daiwoo Barina 1.4 petrol is $13.5k, Mitsu 380 3.8L V6 petrol is $28k (one AU$ = approx 60 euro cents)

[edit] here's a good online list of Oz car prices
http://www.discountnewcars.com.au

[Street_Dreamer]

s-class should do very well, it's a great car...have the privelage of being able to get driven in one regularly (old and new). Q7 is a car i love as well, especially the S-Line which is beautiful and a definite SUV success (we were going to get one, but didn't eventually :()

[perryz]

I voted for Aurion, but I almost know for sure that Commodore will win. Wheels have dedicated half of the content(and Cover) to VE this year, i cant imagine it doesnt win. Wheels are so in love with VE, I mean they can even sleep with VE.

[Ferrer]

As Pieter has said Fiats are here cheaper than most of its rivals, which coupled to the Punto actually being a worthy porduct it makes for a very good buy. Didn't know that prices were like that in Australia.

The case of the 159 is a little bit different, the diesels making more sense economically comparing to the petrols and its rivals. Despite that I'd still prefer a 159 over all the contenders in the D-segment.

[Kitdy]

Went with the E92 BMW. That is more a proper BMW, and I think it will do well (but I don't know those Austrialian cars).

[Cyco]

Fiat are being imported by Ateko, the same company that is responsible for Ferrari and Maseratti - Maybe some of their pricing structure has rubbed off.......

[IBrake4Rainbows]

Aurion
Statesmen/Caprice
S-Class
VE
Passat.

The Aurion, as much as i hate to admit it, probably has this sewn up. It's innovative, functional, cost-effective and doesn't really have a large chink in it's armour.

If it at least doesn't make the second round there will be screams of bias and derision. if it wins likewise.

The VE is highly suited to Australia, but again the detail work might just let it down. the Statesmen/Caprice gets the second nod.

[motorsportnerd]

The Aurion, as much as i hate to admit it, probably has this sewn up. It's innovative, functional, cost-effective and doesn't really have a large chink in it's armour.

If it at least doesn't make the second round there will be screams of bias and derision. if it wins likewise.


Excatly. The Aurion is between a rock and a hard place since its up against the VE. As I said, I just hope the Wheels editors judge it on its merits and don't judge against it just because it might be a unpopular win.

[PerfAdv]

The Honda Legend.

[syko]

Going by pass years it will either be the cx-7 or the statesman/caprice.

[2ndclasscitizen]

The VE LWB cars have a very good chance, but I wouldn't rule out the Legend. It's a lot of car, and it's supposed to be a good drive. Jetta hasn't got a chnace, it's just too damn expensive. $33k for 2.0l sedan? Don't think so.

[SlickHolden]

I agree with what fpv said earlier, The V8 models can over come the omega being so down engine tranny wise, Little like the turbo with BA gave a little pick me up as it was the icing on the BA cake.

[henk4]

Fiat are being imported by Ateko, the same company that is responsible for Ferrari and Maseratti - Maybe some of their pricing structure has rubbed off.......

are the Fiats also being rebadged?:D

[Ferrer]

are the Fiats also being rebadged?:D
Doesn't the Punto look like a Maserati? Fiat Puntorati anyone? :D

[henk4]

smells like inter-euro subsidies .. (:D)

Fiat Punto 1.9TD Emotion or Sport are AU$28k, VW Polo 1.9TD is $23k, VW Golf 1.9TD is $28k, Peugeot 307 1.6TD is $29.5k, Citroen C4 1.6TD and Holden/Opel Astra 1.9TD are $30k, Holden/Daiwoo Barina 1.4 petrol is $13.5k, Mitsu 380 3.8L V6 petrol is $28k (one AU$ = approx 60 euro cents)

[edit] here's a good online list of Oz car prices
http://www.discountnewcars.com.au

What strikes me is how cheap cars are down under. A Polo costs less than 14,000 Euros, and over 25,000 Euros over here (Holland)....while the cheapest version of the Astra 1.9 CDti is just under 26,000, compared to 18,000 in Oz.

[Ferrer]

What strikes me is how cheap cars are down under. A Polo costs less than 14,000 Euros, and over 25,000 Euros over here (Holland)....while the cheapest version of the Astra 1.9 CDti is just under 26,000, compared to 18,000 in Oz.
Here the cheapest Astra 1.9 CDTi costs 21.560 € and the cheapest Polo 1.9 TDI costs 16.550 €. Not as cheap as Australia but definitely cheaper than Holland. You've really high taxes on cars, don't you?

[henk4]

Here the cheapest Astra 1.9 CDTi costs 21.560 € and the cheapest Polo 1.9 TDI costs 16.550 €. Not as cheap as Australia but definitely cheaper than Holland. You've really high taxes on cars, don't you?

yes, but that still does not explain why a Polo can cost almost half less in Ozland than overhere. (and we have of course a special mark up for diesel cars, because they pollute:( and the Government keeps a blind eye for cars fitted with particle filters, it would cost them money...)

[Ferrer]

I've made a bit of research and things aren't as clear as I thought regarding prices. The car I've taken as a base is the BMW 335i E90. And here are the preices on different countries:

-USA: 29.585 € (38.700 $)
-Germany: 40.520 €
-Japan: 44.130 € (6.680.000 Yen)
-Spain: 44.900 €
-UK: 45.715 € (£ 30,940)
-Netherlands: 52.975 €
-Australia: 61.845 € (104.000 Aus$)
-Denmark: 95.810 € (714.000 DK)

Amaizingly North America gets increadibly cheap cars, way ahead everyone else. Interestingly regarding the countries we compared before, the trend is reversed, Australia now having the most expensive price, and Spain, now in the lead, still ahed of Holland with the cheapest price of the three. Denmark has a more expensive price than everyone else, probalby due to taxes.

In conclusion I suppose that high prices are a conjunction of high taxes plus transport costs, and that's why Holland, Australia and Denmark have such prices, while Germany has a much lower price even if still is in Europe (high taxes).

[henk4]

I've made a bit of research and things aren't as clear as I thought regarding prices. The car I've taken as a base is the BMW 335i E90. And here are the preices on different countries:
-Australia: 61.845 € (104.000 Aus$)


and a mitsubishi 380 V6 costs only 28,000 AUD.....just wondering what BMW is thinking there....

[Cyco]

Over AU$48,000 (28,800 Euro) there is another tax that is is added as a "Luxury Car Tax" that adds 17% to every dollar above that level.

Below that taxes are not too bad.

[nota]

yes, but that still does not explain why a Polo can cost almost half less in Ozland than overhere.
Probable reason for the price disparity is that our r/h/d Polos are sourced from low-cost South Africa. IIRC so too are non-GTi Golfs and Focus (except XR5) and likewise Hummer H3. Interestingly the previous-gen Polo debuted here a few years ago, then sourced from China; apparently we were the first Western 'test market' of Chinese-manufactured vehicles, but some quality glitches and public awareness of origin led to poor acceptance, hence re-sourced from SA

Our Honda Accord (the larger US variant, not Accord Euro) is manufactured in Thailand, as are almost all brands of smaller jap pickups. But the 4.0L V6 version of Mazda pickup/Ford Ranger twins are exported CKD from Thailand to South Africa, where they are assembled with SA-built V6s then shipped here!

Btw for a clearer example of European vs AU prices you might wish to use Ford Fiesta as an 'equal comparitor' as our Fiestas are imported FBU from Germany. This model is 9,000 euros here - how much elsewhere?
http://www.discountnewcars.com.au/Ford/Ford-Fiesta-LX-3-Door-1-6-WQ.cfm

Finally, it is amazing that a modest car like VW Polo costs 25,000+ euros in the Netherlands! :eek: It got me thinking how difficult it must be for those of modest means (including young people) to afford a decent new car, or even get into the new car market. Utes are a popular and affordable choice here for a wide spectrum of people and many of them view the ute as a sort of 'budget 2-seater sporty with a big boot'. Even the basic 6cyl models deliver good performance, have 'big car' durability and hold their value extremely well (vastly better than the equivalent sedan versions do).
http://www.discountnewcars.com.au/Holden/Holden-Commodore-Ute-3-6-VZ.cfm
For example this one has 240hp quadcam & 6-speed manual, IRS with optional LSD & LPG etc. Here it costs the equivalent of 15,000 euros - a whopping 10,000 euros cheaper than poor Dutchies pay for the VW! The Falcon version is a bit cheaper.



Over AU$48,000 (28,800 Euro) there is another tax that is is added as a "Luxury Car Tax" that adds 17% to every dollar above that level.
I'm not sure of this, but was the Luxury Tax base level later raised to $55k or thereabouts?

[Kitdy]

Will this award be biased towards Australian made cars my Australian homies?

Cuz if that's the case, then that Commodore will win, and even if it's not, I don't know enough about it to say that it won't. :D

[henk4]

Finally, it is amazing that a modest car like VW Polo costs 25,000+ euros in the Netherlands! :eek: It got me thinking how difficult it must be for those of modest means (including young people) to afford a decent new car, or even get into the new car market.

the base 1.2 litre 55 bhp Polo costs only 13,000....I quoted the price for the 1.9 130 BHP Tdi 5 doors Sportline.

[2ndclasscitizen]

Amaizingly North America gets increadibly cheap cars, way ahead everyone elseBMW manufactures a few models in America, not sure about the 3 series though, but the US tends to get cheaper cars than everywhere else. The US dollar is still kinda strong and their taxes are obviously lower due to a larger population.


and a mitsubishi 380 V6 costs only 28,000 AUD.....just wondering what BMW is thinking there....I very much doubt there's a lot of people cross shopping 3-series' and 380s. The 380 is considerably larger. Also, it's that cheap cause no one is buying them.

[Mr.Tiv]

The US dollar is still kinda strong.
Ah, Haha. That's the first time I've heard anything of that nature in years. That makes me feal good. As for things being cheaper here, well we also have an outrageously low minimum wage which contributes to everything being cheaper, I haven't taken any economics so I can't explain that in too much deatail, but I am sure you understand.

[fpv_gtho]

I'm not sure of this, but was the Luxury Tax base level later raised to $55k or thereabouts?

Last i heard it was at $57K. Mazda seemed rather pleased when they released the RX-8 to have it sell at $56,XXX, just escaping the tax.

[HSVLVR]

The VE Commodore will win it.

[Ingolstadt]

My country :

BMW E46 M3 = 145,904€
Audi A8 4.2 = 283,411€
Toyota Camry = 39,677€
Audi RS4 = 188521€

bummer.... and mind you, all cars here are less equipped. Imagine some top notch BMW 530 with only 4 air bags, no sunroof .... no gps.. ...

[Ingolstadt]

I voted Alfa 159. It's the return of the Italians to a segment where battles are fought, wars are won; rather than the last 10 years of hiding themselves from major segments and producing weird niche stuffs.

Holden VE COmmodore? That looked like the previous Mustang ! The whole profile....

http://www.mustangsmustangs.net/ford/stangpics/99-00/99_gtht_red_1.jpg

http://www.modernracer.com/news/wp-content/uploads/2006/07/2007-holden-ve-commodore-1.jpg

http://www.mustangsmustangs.net/ford/stangpics/99-00/99_GTwanabe_silver_1.jpg

http://www.modernracer.com/news/wp-content/uploads/2006/07/2007-holden-ve-commodore-2.jpg

[Blitz_]

Holden VE COmmodore? That looked like the previous Mustang ! The whole profile....
[/img]

Is it just me, or do I see barely any reseblence in profile at all?

Im going to have to say no to that one mate.

[fpv_gtho]

Theres some minor bits i guess, the wheel arch flares, the basic shape of the headlight, the c pillar. Other than that i dont think theres anything else. You certainly wouldnt mistake one for the other.

[SlickHolden]

Will this award be biased towards Australian made cars my Australian homies?

Cuz if that's the case, then that Commodore will win, and even if it's not, I don't know enough about it to say that it won't. :D
Are you trying too start up a international conspiracy here:D.


I voted Alfa 159. It's the return of the Italians to a segment where battles are fought, wars are won; rather than the last 10 years of hiding themselves from major segments and producing weird niche stuffs.

Holden VE COmmodore? That looked like the previous Mustang ! The whole profile....

http://www.mustangsmustangs.net/ford/stangpics/99-00/99_gtht_red_1.jpg

http://tcimages.net/DisplayImage.aspx?PD=12776537&S=ISS

http://www.mustangsmustangs.net/ford/stangpics/99-00/99_GTwanabe_silver_1.jpg

http://tcimages.net/DisplayImage.aspx?PD=12772252&S=ISS
I really worry for you, Hope you don't work with your eyes:p
Silver-Silver is better:D.
http://tcimages.net/DisplayImage.aspx?PD=12776537&S=ISS
http://tcimages.net/DisplayImage.aspx?PD=12772252&S=ISS

[Monty_Burns]

Inevitably, the VE Commodore will win, but the Mazda CX7 and Toyota Aurion will round out the top 3. All three are great cars, and winners in their own right - particularly the Mazda.

[Volvoman]

Of the list I think the Jetta has what it takes to get the gong. Although I think the new C70 could do well. I think it could suprise us all as well as the Ssangyong. (please don't shoot me). The C70 is reportedly a great car, only thing letting it down is it's handling.

[motorsportnerd]

If the Volvo C70 is meant to be a sporty car, than handling is quite important to how it performs its intended function. Thus, if the C70 doesn't have very good handling, it will get marked down.
However, cars that are judge don't need to have brilliant handling/dynamics necessarily - its dependent on what the intended function of the car is. So a Hyundai Lantra might be forgiven poor handling since its primary function/role is as a compact city/commuter/occasional open road car. But a sporty car with poor handling won't be so easily forgiven.
That's how the Camry has done well in COTY in the past (in 2003 the last model finished top 6), because outstanding dynamics are not the main prerequiste to performing the role as a mid-size family car. Which despite their blandness is a role that Camry's do well. Even though the current Camry isn't the class leader (a recent Wheels comparison between the Camry and Mazda6 says the 6 is still the better car), the Camry will still stack up quite well against the Wheels COTY criteria in its intended role as a mid-size family car.

[IBrake4Rainbows]

I happen to think differently about the Camry. Because it failed to beat the class leader marks will most definately be taken off for intended function because there are others which do it better. add to this generally negative reviews about the car and i'd be interested to see if it makes it past the first round. especially when compared to the far superior Aurion.

[motorsportnerd]

Much the same was said about the previous Camry and it made it to the top six. The current one still performs it function as a family car well, if not as the class leader. However, taking into account that it is not the class leader and that I think the competition is much, much stronger this time round than it was 2003, I agree with you that the current Camry won't make it far.

[Ferrer]

If the Volvo C70 is meant to be a sporty car, than handling is quite important to how it performs its intended function. Thus, if the C70 doesn't have very good handling, it will get marked down.
The C70 isn't meant to be a sportscar. It's just a 4-seater convertible cruiser.

[SlickHolden]

The C70 isn't meant to be a sportscar. It's just a 4-seater convertible cruiser.
The VE Commodore Omega isnt a sports car also, But ask the boys who got it through corners that were marked 80 doing almost double that with ease, Handling is handling the C70 it just doesnt have it.

Dam it's not cheap :eek: Just seen the price.

[motorsportnerd]

And I got the Aurion through 35km/h corners at 80km/h - but its no sports car either.
The price will go against the C70 as well as its handling.

[SlickHolden]

I stuck the VP into a roundabout last night at 3am at over 70kp/h:p Not sure what the speed was but it didnt say 70:D No tyre moaning which is good.
And it's not a sports car:D family cars:D

p.s i dont have spell check incase my spelling looks shethouse it's not me i cant spell:p

[fpv_gtho]

The VE Commodore Omega isnt a sports car also, But ask the boys who got it through corners that were marked 80 doing almost double that with ease, Handling is handling the C70 it just doesnt have it.

Dam it's not cheap :eek: Just seen the price.

Its not likely to work as a positive for the Commodore though. The firmness in the suspension is likely going to be considered a negative for the Omega and a positive for the SSV.

[motorsportnerd]

The Omega's suspension is not particularly firm. Its ride is one of its best qualities.

Also, on a different note, Drive has selected their Car of the Year: http://www.drive.com.au/Editorial/ArticleDetail.aspx?ArticleID=21002&vf=7

Didn't see that coming and I'm still shocked. An Audi TT??:confused:
And the Aurion was the best car in its catagory, but didn't handle as well as the Mits 380. Again, que??:confused: I disagree.
Wouldn't read too much into these awards. The Toyota Yaris finished second....

[IBrake4Rainbows]

Lol. you actually read Fairfax media :p

These people are just screwy. THE Q7 made the final 4. WTF?

[motorsportnerd]

Just looking over the Drive catagory awards - not one Holden won an award (except People's choice, which doesn't really count). Does Holden not give any advertising revenue to Drive?
Worst example - in the Best Performance Car under $60K should've been a shoe-in for the SS-V. Instead, they give it to the (admittedly still great) Golf GTi.

[IBrake4Rainbows]

I think the decision wasn't a bad one - the Golf GTi is still awesome. cars like the Mazda MPS3 might have oversurped it in the class though.

German Cars FTW, it seems.

[fpv_gtho]

Lol. you actually read Fairfax media :p

They dont happen to be involved with Channel 10 now do they? The story CH10 news just ran on stability control saving lives seemed rather empty IMO.

[motorsportnerd]

Lol. you actually read Fairfax media :p


The Sydney Morning Herald (Fairfax) is far better and more intelligently written than the Sydney Daily Telegraph (Murdoch) - so yes I read Fairfax media.

[IBrake4Rainbows]

It's still a shite tabloid newspaper though. <shrugs> the best of a bad lot :(

[motorsportnerd]

Yep, agreed. The Australian news media is 2nd rate at best.

[syko]

All I can say really is magazines do it better.

[2ndclasscitizen]

Yep, agreed. The Australian news media is 2nd rate at best.
Well that's not quite true. ABC News and 7.30 report are good, and the SMH is good as well (except Drive) It's just that there's so much shite out there.

[monaroCountry]

Well i guess Audi paid DRIVE a huge amount of money.

On another note who cares about some drive award..............im waiting for the WORLD CAR AWARD :).

[#3 Tasman Bloke]

It'd be good to see Holden Commodore win this year because it has already produced about 200,000 (from a guess) and even beat the challenge of having to find new nuts and bolts following the Ajax controversy. I think that Holden have taken it to the world one more time. By the way, after the Calais V swept the Cars Guide car of the year award (in which PASSAT came 2nd and Aurion 3rd?!) i'll be shocked if it doesn't happen to win.

[HSVLVR]

It'd be good to see Holden Commodore win this year because it has already produced about 300,000 (from a guess) and even beat the challenge of having to find new nuts and bolts following the Ajax controversy. I think that Holden have taken it to the world one more time.

Adding on to that, Holden have done an outstanding performance building the VE Commodore, so go COMMODORE:)

[motorsportnerd]

It'd be good to see Holden Commodore win this year because it has already produced about 300,000 (from a guess) and even beat the challenge of having to find new nuts and bolts following the Ajax controversy. I think that Holden have taken it to the world one more time.

The Commodore VE SHOULDN'T win the award for THAT reason. It'd be a bit like giving an award to the kid in class who always tries the hardest but just isn't going to be top of the class.
The Commodore VE should ONLY get the award if it is the car which best fits the criteria as set down by Wheels magazine.
Being the top selling car isn't a criteria (especially as most Commodores sold this year were the old VZ model anyway). Nor is meeting a standard business challenge of getting around the problems that a supplier was having. Holden wasn't the only one to meet the challenge of the Ajax controversy - Ford and Mitsubishi also had to solve that challenge.

Having said that, if Wheels doesn't award the VE the win, it will be controversial to say the least (unless the WM wins, in which case all is likely to be forgiven). It will lead to accusations of bias against Holden, lack of patriotism, etc, etc.
On the other hand, if the VE does win, it will also be controversial. Accusations will fly about bias towards Holden, questions will be asked about how much Holden spent to get the award, etc.
This is always a problem with Car of the Year Awards.

[fpv_gtho]

Well i guess Audi paid DRIVE a huge amount of money.

On another note who cares about some drive award..............im waiting for the WORLD CAR AWARD :).

Im not holding my breath on world car. The VE might be seen as value for money and a decent enough car to their standards, but theyre going to view other models more favourably due to more exposure.


It'd be good to see Holden Commodore win this year because it has already produced about 300,000 (from a guess) and even beat the challenge of having to find new nuts and bolts following the Ajax controversy. I think that Holden have taken it to the world one more time.

Sure you didnt add a 0 to that? Holden only produce about 150K units per year, they wont double that in simply a few months.

[thatdbeme]

It's still a shite tabloid newspaper though. <shrugs> the best of a bad lot :(

The SMH is a broadsheet

[thatdbeme]

Having said that, if Wheels doesn't award the VE the win, it will be controversial to say the least (unless the WM wins, in which case all is likely to be forgiven). It will lead to accusations of bias against Holden, lack of patriotism, etc, etc.
On the other hand, if the VE does win, it will also be controversial. Accusations will fly about bias towards Holden, questions will be asked about how much Holden spent to get the award, etc.
This is always a problem with Car of the Year Awards.

Noone can justify justify an accusation that wheels was biased against holden. They promote holden in every issue.

[motorsportnerd]

Wheels' VE coverage has been just a little over the top. But since they feature a Ford in virtually every issue, they can also almost as equally be accused of bias towards Ford.
No doubt Wheels' editors would justify the huge amount of space given over to Holden and Ford on the basis that that's what sells their magazines.

[motorsportnerd]

I notice that in the poll the VE Commodore and the WM Statesman are pulling a clear lead. More interesting is the spread of votes given to many of the other contenders, which I think is indicative of how good the past year has been for new car releases in Australia.
Probably any car that finishes in the top 10 this year would have won the title in any other year where there wasn't so many good new cars released.

[fpv_gtho]

Wheels' VE coverage has been just a little over the top. But since they feature a Ford in virtually every issue, they can also almost as equally be accused of bias towards Ford.
No doubt Wheels' editors would justify the huge amount of space given over to Holden and Ford on the basis that that's what sells their magazines.

Its a bit hard to put a Ford bias over Holden in Wheels when the Falcon had been snubbed for the award for so long, whilst every new Commodore seemingly was handed the award. I think Wheels have made comment on more than a few times awarding the VB and VN COTY couldve been a better thought out decision.

[motorsportnerd]

The VB was the right decision in my opinion. A car still big enough to seat five people, but light enough to reduce fuel consumption in troubled times, with decent dynamic ability. Of course there were quality questions. And with hindsight the move to the smaller body car was wrong. But it wasn't known in 1978 that the large car market would survive and prosper. The smaller bodied VB seemed right in a time of fuel-crisis.
The VN most definitely wasn't deserving. Nor was the Camira.
The 1988 award should probably have gone to either the Honda Civic or BMW 5-series. Both were more advanced and better cars against the magazines criteria than either the Commodore VN or the Falcon EA.
Not sure what should have won the 1982 award. Possibly the Mitsubishi Starion Turbo. It wasn't a great year. The Camira was reasonably advanced for a Holden - quite spacious due to FWD layout, modern OHC engines, decent dynamics. But, it was poorly built, spectacularly unreliable (they already knew this by the end of 1982) and really needed 2.0 litre engines for better performance.
Also, there are question marks over whether the VR deserved the 1993 award. Yes, it introduced advanced safety equipment into Australian produced cars for the first time. But otherwise, it wasn't a huge advance over the VP - rather a reasonably well thought out refinement. A worthy car in its class, sure, but not a technologically advanced car deserving of the award.
If the premium priced Honda Accord had been cheaper it would've easily beaten the VR.
Over the years questions have been raised about why Ford has won few awards. But how many of their cars truly deserved it? Back in 1972, the XA was favourite. This was a time when only locally manufactured cars were eligible. The XA wasn't considered good enough to win. The Holden HQ had failed the previous year as well. Neither were particularly advanced cars, and neither deserved the award.
In 1979, it was the XDs turn to be favourite. The decision not to award the XD the COTY is one of the most controversial. At the time, though, Australia was still in the grip of an oil-crisis, and the XD was considered to be wasteful of resources. Yes, the body was of advanced design. But the underpinnings - the suspension, engine, transmissions - were carry over items. There was no 5-speed manual option for example at a time when they were becoming common on many cars. The rear suspension was still a leaf-spring design. Robust yes, but hardly cutting edge. Turned out with hindsight that the XD Falcon was the right car for the right time and it probably should've carried out the award for its innovative body and interior designs. Still, the Mazda RX7 might have held a good claim that year too - but nothing was awarded the title.
The EA Falcon was rightly overlooked. Other then an new aerodynamic body and OHC engines, it wasn't a particularly great car. It was as good as the VN however - and the VN really shouldn't have won either.
In the 1990s, the EF Falcon missed out on the 1994 award. The EF was a similar story to the VR - a similarly though out and executed advance over the ED that the VR was to the VP. And if the Liberty had been as expensive as the Accord, the EF probably would've won. But questions over rear end stability cost the EF.
The AU failing to win the 1998 award was controversial. Not as much as the XD's failure. Probaby because as a design the AU was controverial. And the Liberty was a damned good car.
However, imported Fords did alright a couple of times. The first Telstar won the 1983 award - rightly. As did the third generation Telstar - again rightly. Shared on both occasions with the twin under the skin the Mazda 626.
My reason for stating that Wheels is just as biased towards Ford (or perhaps not biased towards either Ford or Holden) is that in recent times, Ford has received just as much positive coverage and had just as many pages devoted to their cars as Holden. Lets not forget the magazine's gashing praise for virtually every XR badged Falcon since the orignal XR6 EB. Its praise and awards for the BA & BF Falcon. Its extensive coverage and awards for the Territory. And in the past few years, very positive reviews of the Fords not built in Australia - the Focus and Fiesta. In particular, recent praise for the XR5 Focus.
Of course Wheels has always extensively covered Holden. But they are give pretty much equal room to Ford. Don't forget the Falcon BA award was met with howls of "bais". Remember the controversial decision to exclude the VY Commodore? Or that the BA narrowly beat the acclaimed Mazda6 - a car equally deserving of the award? Or the same accusations level at the magazine when it chose the Territory? A car with a few quality issues, a drinking problem and not quite at home in the bush despite its 4WD chassis? Beating off the VW Golf - which probably had a similarly good claim to the award?
Where Wheels can really be accused of bias is the lack of similar coverage given to either Toyota or Mitsubishi - despite the fact that both build cars in Australia and decent ones at that. Probably because, and fairly so, neither Mitsubishi or particularly Toyota engenders the same passion as Ford or Holden.
Fact is, whenever a Falcon or Commodore is released it is going to be favoured to when the Wheels award. Sometimes its justified (the original Monaro and VB were rightful winners for Holden, both wins for the Telstar and the win for the BA and Territory were well justified winners for Ford). Sometimes it isn't justified (Camira and VN shouldn't have got the award. The XD didn't deserve it either, and Wheels made the right decision not to award it).
But whenever either a Falcon/Territory or a Holden win, the win is going to be met with claims of bias, questions about how much Ford/Holden paid and so on. And not just from the opposing tribal camp. Questions will also come form the supporters of Euro and Japanese cars.
I can guarantee this years winner will be controversial. Whether its the VE/WM or whether its a non-Holden.

[motorsportnerd]

On another note, the Calais-V VE V8 won the Carsguide Car of the Year award. At least they're not pretending the base Commodores deserve it. And the Calais-V as a stand alone is a fantastic car by any criteria. http://carsguide.news.com.au/story/0,20384,20843526-21822,00.html

Its interesting to note that Carsguide has given a COTY award to the same car as Wheels has on a number of occasions: they agreed with the Commodore VT in 1997, the Falcon BA in 2002 and the Territory in 2004.

If Wheels awards this year's COTY to the VE, they will really be awarding the Calais V, not the whole range. But they won't be as clear about that as Carsguide is. And the lesser VE's will bask in the shared glory.
I know Wheels claims it has to consider a whole range because of the fiasco of awarding the Leyland P76 V8 the award a long time back. But, this does have problems.
No way is the Omega VE as deserving of the award as the Calais-V VE for example.
Or, in another example, if the VW Golf GTi could've been considered as a seperate model last year (or the Mazda3 MPS or Focus XR5 this year), it might well have won and deserved to do so.
Perhaps its time to allow individual models within the range to be given a shot at the award.

[fpv_gtho]

Or, in another example, if the VW Golf GTi could've been considered as a seperate model last year (or the Mazda3 MPS or Focus XR5 this year), it might well have won and deserved to do so.
Perhaps its time to allow individual models within the range to be given a shot at the award.

Wasnt it last year the Evo 9 was included by itself though?

[motorsportnerd]

Yes, it was - which I found a bit strange. Include the EVO9, but not the Golf GTi? The Golf probably would've won the award last year.

[fpv_gtho]

Admittedly there is alot different to your basic Lancer and the EVO models - the turbo engines, AWD and the front end. But Mitsubishi sell then as Lancer Evolutioin's, so even they say theyre Lancers.

[2ndclasscitizen]

Admittedly there is alot different to your basic Lancer and the EVO models - the turbo engines, AWD and the front end.
Plus a generation old bodyshell.

[fpv_gtho]

Plus a generation old bodyshell.

I dont think so. The all new Lancer is coming out soon, i think the current one is just the result of heavy facelifting.

[2ndclasscitizen]

The EVO 7 through 9 are all based on the Lancer model that replaced the CE2 (my model Lancer and the one the EVO 6.5 is based on) The EVO just got the Boulay nose to suit that model Lancer, and the 9 lost it when the Lancer lost it.

But yes, the new EVO will be based on the new Lancer

[motorsportnerd]

Just purchased the January 2007 issue of Wheels. In this issue, they have culled 13 cars from COTY contention.
The following cars are no longer in the running to win the Wheels Car of the Year: Dodge Caliber, Fiat Punto, Kia Magentis, Volkswagen Caddy Life, Subaru Tribeca, Ssangyong Kyron, Mercedes Benz R-Class, Hyundai Grandeur, Hyundai Accent, Jeep Commander, Peugeot 407 Coupe, Volkswagen Jetta and Mercedes Benz GL.
Only two real surprises - the elimination of the Jetta, favoured by at least one of our poll voters to win and the Punto, favoured by three of our poll voters to win. The magazine argues that "Jetta range fails to deliver vale and versatility of Golf hatch, on which it is based. Not a bad car, but not a serious contender either." The Punto is judged as having "too-big prices for too-small engines doesn't add up to value in our view. Dynamics not great, and rear seat isn't as roomy as it should be."
Few of the other eliminations will surprise.
Also, a comparison test in this magazine further strengthens the Commodore VE's favouritism to win the COTY gong - as it beats one of the other big contenders the Aurion in a comparison test.

[2ndclasscitizen]

Just purchased the January 2007 issue of Wheels. In this issue, they have culled 13 cars from COTY contention.
The following cars are no longer in the running to win the Wheels Car of the Year: Dodge Caliber, Fiat Punto, Kia Magentis, Volkswagen Caddy Life, Subaru Tribeca, Ssangyong Kyron, Mercedes Benz R-Class, Hyundai Grandeur, Hyundai Accent, Jeep Commander, Peugeot 407 Coupe, Volkswagen Jetta and Mercedes Benz GL.
Has anyone actually seen one on the road yet?

[IBrake4Rainbows]

Yes - I nearly barfed. the sculpting is just Off.

[Volvoman]

Yes. And to top off the ugliness, it was gold! Some people have no taste at all.

[Volvoman]

I guess I wrong about the Jetta as well!!

[STREETFIRE]

The Tribeca is ugly. As is the SsangYong Kyron. I knew that the Grandeur, Magnetis and Kyron were gonna go.

[#3 Tasman Bloke]

[\QUOTE]The EA Falcon was rightly overlooked. [/QUOTE]
Your right about something there. My mum's EA Fairlane is falling apart FCOL!

[#3 Tasman Bloke]

I wasn't surprised about the Punto, quite surprised about the 407 coupe. In some ways, the 407 Coupe is a great lookin car, probably doesn't have enough power. The Punto, well, came last in the Cars Guide judging, and in August 2006 magazine, complained about a fuel leakage!

[#3 Tasman Bloke]

Last thing, lucky the Force 6, a new FPV model, didn't come out early enough! It would've had a clutch problem!

[fpv_gtho]

Hehe..hehe..hehe....your a noob.

Seriously, why make 3 posts in the space of 6 minutes?

[STREETFIRE]

Last thing, lucky the Force 6, a new FPV model, didn't come out early enough! It would've had a clutch problem!
No, it would've had a hot-shutdown problem.

If Wheels awards this year's COTY to the VE, they will really be awarding the Calais V, not the whole range.Omega/Berlina V6 doesn't really deserve it. SS V definitely deserves the gong over the Golf GTI. The Calais shines the most, but some guys such as Chris Jurgen have a problem with the VE Calais being so good.

[motorsportnerd]

Last thing, lucky the Force 6, a new FPV model, didn't come out early enough! It would've had a clutch problem!

No need to worry about what sort of problem the Force 6 would have - it isn't eligible for Wheels Car of the Year on the basis that it is part of a wider range: the Ford Falcon BF Mk 2 range. Also, BF Mk 2 isn't eligible because it is not new enough as compared with its predecessor, the BF. Wheels doesn't allow facelifted models into the COTY testing.


but some guys such as Chris Jurgen have a problem with the VE Calais being so good.

Who's Chris Jurgen?

[adrenaline]

Is it me or are there fanboys around here...?

How many times has the VE already been recalled, boys?

[motorsportnerd]

Doesn't seem to be too much fanboyism in this thread.
The VE has been recalled three times IIRC. However, reliability and quality are not part of Wheels' judging criteria, so I doubt the recalls will affect the VE's chances of winning the award.
What has interested me in the past five months since the VE was released and in the past few since the Toyota Aurion was released is just how controversial both cars seem to be. Read the blogs at www.wheelsblog.com.au or at drive's website, and you'll see what I mean.
Holden fans seem to hate the Aurion. Aurion fans seem to hate the VE. Ford fans seem to hate both. The Mits 380 is overlooked by all. And then there's the hardcore who argue strongly that all the Australian built cars are heaps of s**t.
Maybe its the fact that the price of petrol has risen so dramatically. Maybe its an indicator that the Australian motoring scene is no longer dominated by the locally built cars. Maybe the long term quality issues of the Australian manufacturers are catching up in terms of a large number of very negative opinions and a wide dislike of the Aussie built cars. Maybe its that there is so many well built, well priced, reliable cars in the sub $40K area that it is not necessary or even desirable to buy an Australian built Ford/Holden/Mits/Toyota.

An example of the dislike of the Aussie built cars can be seen in some of the threads I've seen on the VE. One denigrated into a "If you like Holdens (or Fords) you must be an uneducated bogan" versus the equally well informed "If you like Euro/Japanese cars you must be a snob with no common-sense". Interesting - I own a Ford and I have a degree - how does that make me an uneducated bogan? Alternatively, I like Euro/Japanese cars (particularly Mazdas), so does that make me a snob?
The various blogs and forums on the Australian motoring scene show one thing clearly. The Commodore VE (and for that matter the Falcon, Aurion and 380) has a lot of detractors - and not just from opposing tribal fences, but also from those who hate Aussie cars full stop.
This outpouring of dislike for the Aussie cars is now stronger in the past, and just one reason why I'm more keenly awaiting the award than in past years. Just waiting for the reaction from VE and Aurion supporters if, for example, the Mercedes S-Class or Mazda CX-7 win. If the Aurion wins, it'll be attacked by VE supporters and Euro/Japanese supporters. If the VE wins it will be attacked by Aurion supporters and Euro/Japanese supporters.
This one is going to be interesting. And its the Wheels and Drive blogs which will have most of the discussion about the winner.
Of course, here at ultimatecarpage, we're all far more objective about the winning car.:p

[motorsportnerd]

[\QUOTE]The EA Falcon was rightly overlooked.
Your right about something there. My mum's EA Fairlane is falling apart FCOL!

I notice you agree on the EA, but don't mention the VN. Very few of them left on the roads - most have long since oversteered off the road into a tree or lamp post.
Also, while the EAs had heaps of quality problems when new, fact is that they are now a 19-year car, so I'm not surprised that's its falling apart. You can't judge the quality of a 19-year old car by the standards applied to new cars.

[fpv_gtho]

Doesn't seem to be too much fanboyism in this thread.
The VE has been recalled three times IIRC. However, reliability and quality are not part of Wheels' judging criteria, so I doubt the recalls will affect the VE's chances of winning the award.
What has interested me in the past five months since the VE was released and in the past few since the Toyota Aurion was released is just how controversial both cars seem to be. Read the blogs at www.wheelsblog.com.au or at drive's website, and you'll see what I mean.
Holden fans seem to hate the Aurion. Aurion fans seem to hate the VE. Ford fans seem to hate both. The Mits 380 is overlooked by all. And then there's the hardcore who argue strongly that all the Australian built cars are heaps of s**t.
Maybe its the fact that the price of petrol has risen so dramatically. Maybe its an indicator that the Australian motoring scene is no longer dominated by the locally built cars. Maybe the long term quality issues of the Australian manufacturers are catching up in terms of a large number of very negative opinions and a wide dislike of the Aussie built cars. Maybe its that there is so many well built, well priced, reliable cars in the sub $40K area that it is not necessary or even desirable to buy an Australian built Ford/Holden/Mits/Toyota.

An example of the dislike of the Aussie built cars can be seen in some of the threads I've seen on the VE. One denigrated into a "If you like Holdens (or Fords) you must be an uneducated bogan" versus the equally well informed "If you like Euro/Japanese cars you must be a snob with no common-sense". Interesting - I own a Ford and I have a degree - how does that make me an uneducated bogan? Alternatively, I like Euro/Japanese cars (particularly Mazdas), so does that make me a snob?
The various blogs and forums on the Australian motoring scene show one thing clearly. The Commodore VE (and for that matter the Falcon, Aurion and 380) has a lot of detractors - and not just from opposing tribal fences, but also from those who hate Aussie cars full stop.
This outpouring of dislike for the Aussie cars is now stronger in the past, and just one reason why I'm more keenly awaiting the award than in past years. Just waiting for the reaction from VE and Aurion supporters if, for example, the Mercedes S-Class or Mazda CX-7 win. If the Aurion wins, it'll be attacked by VE supporters and Euro/Japanese supporters. If the VE wins it will be attacked by Aurion supporters and Euro/Japanese supporters.
This one is going to be interesting. And its the Wheels and Drive blogs which will have most of the discussion about the winner.
Of course, here at ultimatecarpage, we're all far more objective about the winning car.:p

I think one other alternative is Holden/RWD fans perhaps feel more threatened than ever by Toyota with the Aurion. Despite the claims of it not being a true large car (something i dont really get, who cars about the extra few mm of room. Not going to make a difference in the scheme of things) and also simply a V6 Camry, Toyota have always appealed more to the people looking for an appliance rather than a vehicle, and have long been criticised for only offering a product to meet that demand. Now though they should have a competitive product and will probably leave Holden's lower end models very vulnerable.

Of course nobody would admit it to being that way.

[motorsportnerd]

True. Have you read the threads on Drive about their choice of Audi TT as car of year? Soon denigrated into a "Glad it wasn't VE" vs a "Why wasn't it VE you morons" type of thread - with each group getting more and more abusive to each other.
It was this thread where I learned that I am an uneducated bogan just because I drive a Ford. And that I have no common sense because I like Euro/Japanese cars.
This and other threads have been eye-opening to me as to just how disliked the Aussie built cars are by some enthusiasts. I always knew that were plenty of people who weren't in love with Commodores or Falcons - but never viewed any of the Aussie cars as a genuine love/hate prospect.

[fpv_gtho]

Personally i dont think these Drive blogs are attracting the most knowledgeable of people as a start. I'd think true enthusiasts would know how to search out a dedicated manufacturers forum, or perhaps opt for one more openminded if they felt like having a discussion.

Just like a true enthusiast would probably spend their $8 or so per month on a magazine rather than flicking through the newspaper for one particular journalist filling up room with a test drive/review that may as well be a recital of a specification sheet.

[nota]

Read the blogs at www.wheelsblog.com.au or at drive's website, and you'll see what I mean.
Holden fans seem to hate the Aurion. Aurion fans seem to hate the VE. Ford fans seem to hate both. The Mits 380 is overlooked by all. And then there's the hardcore who argue strongly that all the Australian built cars are heaps of s**t.

Your 'tribal' reference is an excellent descriptor

There's a gulf isn't there between brand-enthusiasts vs true enthusiasm for things automotive. For mine, the former's one-eyed view of automotivedom demotes these miopians down to the level of being football barrackers who've somehow missed their true calling. It's a limited & banal world therein; one which can be easily understood and broken down into those most basic of life-choice; a world not of red or blue eg, but rather black against white - essentially, good vs evil :rolleyes:

Could it be a mysterious residual effect of PB's polariser?


Mercifully the above stupidity is not just confined to Holden vs Ford. Euro-drongos seem to have their subsets too. In some of the Benz sites I visit, it's either Mercedes-perfection or Bavarian Money Waster, with very little shared ground. Interestingly however, I get the impression that japanese afficondos reflect the oft-claimed generic nature of their steeds, and appear on the whole to be less divided

[fpv_gtho]

In some of the Benz sites I visit, it's either Mercedes-perfection or Bavarian Money Waster, with very little shared ground.

Then theres the Audi fanboy's, who think any Beemer or MB is a waste of money

[motorsportnerd]

Could it be a mysterious residual effect of PB's polariser?

Could well be.



Interestingly however, I get the impression that japanese afficondos reflect the oft-claimed generic nature of their steeds, and appear on the whole to be less divided

Unless you're talking GTR fanboys, WRX fanboys or EVO fanboys. Also, I've seen the Mitsi fans on some forums taking a swipe at Toyota fans.

[motorsportnerd]

Just looking at the final poll result.
It seems the UCP members believe the finishing order for Wheels COTY will be as follows:
Commodore VE 1st; Caprice 2nd; BMW 3-series Coupe & Toyota Aurion 3rd equal; Alfa 150 5th; Fiat Punto 6th (which Wheels has already decided didn't make the final judging contest, so we're wrong there); Audi Q7, Honda Legend & Mercedes S-Class 7th equal; Mazda CX7 11th; Toyota Camry, VW Passat & VW Jetta 12 equal.
Only the Toyota RAV4 and Holden Captiva didn't score any votes.

[mikmak]

If you check out Wheels Year Book. The Commodore is the only domestic vehicle to feature heavily in contributors greats of 2006. John Carey is a particular lover of the VE Omega, which highlights to me, Wheels journalists focus on capabilities rather than preconceptions. On more than one occassion, Carey has levelled his pen at the inabilities of the VZ.

[STREETFIRE]

Who's Chris Jurgen?
He's some guy who came to my attention when he had a whine about the VE Calais being so good. He's one of those "Aussie-cars-suck-like-crap" guys who hate Holden and Ford the most. Jason Low also had a similar whinge about the VE and copped it from a VE supporter the next month. I think that those VE haters should be introduced to something called "the local international airport".

[fpv_gtho]

If you check out Wheels Year Book. The Commodore is the only domestic vehicle to feature heavily in contributors greats of 2006. John Carey is a particular lover of the VE Omega, which highlights to me, Wheels journalists focus on capabilities rather than preconceptions. On more than one occassion, Carey has levelled his pen at the inabilities of the VZ.

The Omega? Thats a shot from the dark. That by all rights should be the worst of the lot, and many people believe its sub standard still for a base model.

[SlickHolden]

Thats true the omega is a really good car that is let down by it's engine and transmission. And even though the rest is very very good them 2 things are pretty important too a car. I'm sure even the 5 speed as a option might work in it's favour more.
If you had a Omega first on the list..
Free Flowing Sports system, Cold Air intake, Shift kit billet servo kits:D, That's my list before any exterior changes. That about $1300-$1600. Just buy a SV6:p.

[motorsportnerd]

I'm amazed that Wheels hasn't highlighted the real problem with the VE Omega (yes - I've read the yearbook). As I've pointed out many times (yes I've driven it), and as others have pointed out, the Omega is really let down by its engine/transmission. I mean, really, really let down. Yes, its got excellent dynamics. But the engine is coarse, unrefined, not particular smooth and and barely adequate performance. The rest of the car, particularly dynamics is of above average quality. The engine is barely adequate. Yes it does the job, but no more.
I'll compare it with the Aurion again (I'm driving a Aurion again for a week at the moment). The Aurion's trump card is its engine/transmission combo. If the Omega rates a 4.5/10 for its engine/trans, the Aurion rates a 8/10. Yet, Wheels (and many other motoring writers) have overlooked this.
The Aurion doesn't, quite, have the dynamic capabilities of the Omega VE. Lets say the Omega gets a 8.5/10 for dynamics whereas the Aurion scores a 7/10. The gap dynamically between the two is smaller than the gap between the two for engine/transmission.
In day to day driving, the Aurion's engine/transmission makes it a far better prospect than the Omega VE. And on the rare occasions where you get to enjoy a twisty road, the Aurion is capable enough.
The Omega VE's engine/transmission combo would drive me absolutely nuts on a day to day basis - it just isn't good enough.
The way I see it is that engine/transmission smoothness, performance and refinement is a more important criteria in a car's liveablilty than dynamics.
However, Wheels definitely places dynamics as the number 1 criteria.
I'll not be surprised if the VE is awarded COTY - and the V8 variants such as the Calais and SS deserve it. And the glory will rub off on the Omega.
However, lets not kid ourselves into thinking the Omega deserves it with that engine. Adequate doesn't cut it when two of its main competitors absolutely slaughter it on the engine/transmission front (yes - the Falcon leaves the Commodore Omega for dead there too..). I wonder how long before Wheels admits how bad the engine/trans combo is in the Omega?

[motorsportnerd]

Thats true the omega is a really good car that is let down by it's engine and transmission. And even though the rest is very very good them 2 things are pretty important too a car. I'm sure even the 5 speed as a option might work in it's favour more.
If you had a Omega first on the list..
Free Flowing Sports system, Cold Air intake, Shift kit billet servo kits:D, That's my list before any exterior changes. That about $1300-$1600. Just buy a SV6:p.

Yeah, I'd recommend anybody planning on driving a Omega doesn't waste money trying to improve it. Spend the money on the SV6 instead as you say.

[IBrake4Rainbows]

Cars with one chink in their range have done well in CoTY before. i see no reason why this year should be any different.

To be fair the Aurion isn't as popular as i thought it would be - people are still buying either Camrys or Commodores around here. go figure.

[motorsportnerd]

I think that those VE haters should be introduced to something called "the local international airport".

That's a bit harsh. I'd say everyone has the right to like or not like whatever car they choose. And to feel free to state their opinion (freedom of speech is very important in my opinion). Would you ask Bue Oval supporters who have highlighted the VE's shortcomings to familiarise themselves with their "local international airport" as well?
If so, guess I'd better go find my passport:p

[motorsportnerd]

Cars with one chink in their range have done well in CoTY before. i see no reason why this year should be any different.

To be fair the Aurion isn't as popular as i thought it would be - people are still buying either Camrys or Commodores around here. go figure.

I think the November figures for the Aurion did meet Toyota's expectations.
Remember, despite the new name and the fact that mechanically it is very different to the Camry, it is part of the same family. So add Camry 4 and Aurion V6 sales together and their combined November figures were better than the Falcon. If I remember correctly, the Camry V6 was struggling a little before it was discontinued, and the Aurion is the replacement for the Camry V6, so it isn't doing too bad for now. After all, unlike the 380, the Aurion doesn't have to meet a particular sales target - its main job is to supplement the Camry sales and get Toyota a foothold in the large car market.

[motorsportnerd]

Cars with one chink in their range have done well in CoTY before. i see no reason why this year should be any different.


Yes, you're right.
I've hammered on about the VE's weakness. Time to mention the Aurion's main weakness against the COTY criteria. Lack of engine and transmission choice. You can only buy it with a 3.5 litre V6 and six speed automatic. No manual trans option. No bigger/smaller engine option, espeically since the supercharged TRD variant hasn't been released yet.
This lack of engine/transmission choice looks particular pronounced when compared to the Commodore - which has three engine and four transmission choices. Not all the Commodore's engine/trans combos work as well as they should, but there is a choice offered to the consumer - and that's important.

[IBrake4Rainbows]

I've seen 2 Aurions in my area - Including a Presara (I think one of them was a Camry honestly) but around 10 - 15 Camry's. the 4 Cylinder, especially in todays petrol price climate, is doing well around here.

I honestly don't see what was wrong with making it like an Accord Euro/V6 Deal personally - the Camry name holds much more sway round these parts.

Since the Camry has been moved into a different market (there is no 4 Cylinder falcon, Commodore....) adding the sales together isn't really proving much. Even if Toyota believes them to be part of the same model family.

Best of luck to Toyota but I'm not an Aurion Fan - I just genuinely don't like the look and feel of the vehicle. I had a bit of a play with one at my local dealership and (maybe it's just me) but i didn't like much about it.

I think thats whats going to save the Commodore - it has a range of engines - some of which work beautifully - so the other models might be able to be not overlooked, but have whatever damage they cause minimized.

If the Aurion doesn't perform to expectations then it's likely that disappointment will be across the whole range.

[motorsportnerd]

With me its the other way around - the Aurion met my expectations, the VE in Omega form didn't. Did you drive the Aurion? Have you had a chance to drive the VE?
In some ways, the older Falcon fitted with a ZF six speed is still more than a match for the two newer cars.
Also, I agree with you about the Camry/Aurion names. Everyone knows what a Camry is - it has a strong reputation in the marketplace. No one knows what an Aurion is.
They should've kept the Camry nameplate on both cars. And fitted the Camry 4 with the suspension/steering from the Aurion - since that appears to be the Camry 4's main weakness.

[IBrake4Rainbows]

No drives but just a showroom impression would definately have lead me to asking for a VE Test drive - the Aurion looked cheaper, and just didn't get past my preconcieved "it's a Toyota" thing - a stigma that many australian buyers are likely to have.

I know it's a preconception that i shouldn't have - and i tried to approach the vehicle on it's merits. but even my father - out with me just casually browsing looking for something new and shiny - took one look at it and just sort of sighed.

It seems to be a vehicle - around his work anyway - you get when you know nothing about cars :p

[motorsportnerd]

I wouldn't buy a new Aurion either. Nor in fact would I buy a new six-cylinder Commodore, 380 or Falcon. Resale value is the main reason. If I was spending $36K of my own money - I'd be heading to my Mazda dealer (Mazda6 Classic or one of the deals they're doing at the moment on a 6Luxury or a Mazda3 SP23) or my Volkswagen dealer (a Golf 2.0 Sportline FSi with a six speed manual would do nicely).
On the other hand if my company said you can have a company car - and it can be a choice of any of the Aussie made cars under $36K - I'd probably take the Aurion.

[IBrake4Rainbows]

Given the Choice i'd probably go a Falcon Actually. Tried, true and old enough not to be flogged from the car park.

And for an extra $10,000 more i'd get a Fairmont Ghia. thats value.

[motorsportnerd]

And if it was your money and not a company car, sticking to the 36K limit that buys the base Aussie cars, what would you buy?

[IBrake4Rainbows]

Hmmm....Toughie.

Out of my own money none of them represent fantastic value.

Again i'd probably go Falcon - i'd be able to get a better deal on a not-so-far behind car. Free Aircon/Alloys maybe?

[motorsportnerd]

On a side note - a dealer just up the road from me has a 2003 Ford Fairmont fitted with the optional 5.4 litre V8. Its done just 43,000km and they want $19,990. Now, that's value - and I'll admit I was tempted. And its also a hell of a dive in retain value for the first owner - from nearly $50K new to just $20K now as a three year old car.

[motorsportnerd]

Hmmm....Toughie.

Out of my own money none of them represent fantastic value.

Again i'd probably go Falcon - i'd be able to get a better deal on a not-so-far behind car. Free Aircon/Alloys maybe?

You'd probably get the Falcon with free six-speed auto/alloys for way under $36K driveaway. Air-con is standard.
You'd also lose about 65 percent of its value in three years.
If you went for a Mazda or VW (or Accord Euro, or many of the other non-Aussie cars in that price bracket) you'd only lose about 35-40 percent.

[IBrake4Rainbows]

There advertising Ex-Govvie 2003 BA XT's here in Canberra for $10,000. Madness.

If i didn't have to buy a big 6 i'd probably head to a VW showroom. That or go used.

[motorsportnerd]

It is madness. My EL may get traded for an BA later this year or sometime next. Won't cost that much to upgrade either based on $10K for a BA and EL's still fetching about $6K.

[IBrake4Rainbows]

EL's have always fared reasonably well - people bought them instead of AU Fortes :p

it's like the Square Jeep Cherokee - the last models are fetching just as much money, if not more, than there younger counterparts coz no one likes the round one :p

[nota]

.. the Omega is really let down by its engine/transmission. I mean, really, really let down. Yes, its got excellent dynamics. But the engine is coarse, unrefined, not particular smooth and and barely adequate performance.

Adequate doesn't cut it when two of its main competitors absolutely slaughter it on the engine/transmission front (yes - the Falcon leaves the Commodore Omega for dead there too..). I wonder how long before Wheels admits how bad the engine/trans combo is in the Omega?
Just for my interest MSN, how does the Omega powertrain compare to that of your (later '90s) EL Falcon?

Oddly, the (admittedly few) US mag tests I've seen of Cadillac CTS (RWD) heap praise on its smooth donk, which is a 3.6 litre Global V6 similar to Commodore :confused:

I have to agree with both you guys (IBR & MSN) about buying new vs used, especially local cars, and was musing about just this subject the other day. A 3 y/o Falcon for $10k is indisputably great value; it's like the used-car market is compressing down into a narrowing price-width, if you get my drift. No wonder the once-loyal private buyers have deserted the new Aussie-car market, these buyers were once the backbone of local manufacturing, but no longer. In their wake is an ever increasing ratio of uninspiring base model ex-fleet-specs flooding the market, in an ever downward resale spiral. Spells an ominous future for Ozzie cars? :(

However, on the bright side have you checked/compared the value-plunge for local cars against typical off-lease prestige euros like BMW or Ordie etc? http://www.drive.com.au/Editorial/ArticleDetail.aspx?ArticleID=21029 .. eg a four-year value loss of around $80k! :eek:
Academic percentages be damned, that's real money

Regards the 5.4 Fairmont, I've previously told about the mate's '03 BA XT V8 auto, an ex-cop unit bought two years ago for $21k. Great to drive, lots of twist right from idle & gets low 20s in mpg around town. Had new rotors fitted but no other real issues, a few crap plastic clips broken. I think it's now done 90k kms? Btw an aftermarket V8 LPG kit is available. From memory those rare 5.4 manual XTs equal-peg XR6Ts to 100km/h - not bad for a low-profile insurance cheater

[SlickHolden]

I'm amazed that Wheels hasn't highlighted the real problem with the VE Omega (yes - I've read the yearbook). As I've pointed out many times (yes I've driven it), and as others have pointed out, the Omega is really let down by its engine/transmission. I mean, really, really let down. Yes, its got excellent dynamics. But the engine is coarse, unrefined, not particular smooth and and barely adequate performance. The rest of the car, particularly dynamics is of above average quality. The engine is barely adequate. Yes it does the job, but no more.
I'll compare it with the Aurion again (I'm driving a Aurion again for a week at the moment). The Aurion's trump card is its engine/transmission combo. If the Omega rates a 4.5/10 for its engine/trans, the Aurion rates a 8/10. Yet, Wheels (and many other motoring writers) have overlooked this.
The Aurion doesn't, quite, have the dynamic capabilities of the Omega VE. Lets say the Omega gets a 8.5/10 for dynamics whereas the Aurion scores a 7/10. The gap dynamically between the two is smaller than the gap between the two for engine/transmission.
In day to day driving, the Aurion's engine/transmission makes it a far better prospect than the Omega VE. And on the rare occasions where you get to enjoy a twisty road, the Aurion is capable enough.
The Omega VE's engine/transmission combo would drive me absolutely nuts on a day to day basis - it just isn't good enough.
The way I see it is that engine/transmission smoothness, performance and refinement is a more important criteria in a car's liveablilty than dynamics.
However, Wheels definitely places dynamics as the number 1 criteria.
I'll not be surprised if the VE is awarded COTY - and the V8 variants such as the Calais and SS deserve it. And the glory will rub off on the Omega.
However, lets not kid ourselves into thinking the Omega deserves it with that engine. Adequate doesn't cut it when two of its main competitors absolutely slaughter it on the engine/transmission front (yes - the Falcon leaves the Commodore Omega for dead there too..). I wonder how long before Wheels admits how bad the engine/trans combo is in the Omega?
They really need too highlight this so they can move there bums and fix it.

World Class car. With world class **** ups for engine and transmission.
Some have bagged the 5 speed auto, I really loved it it made my transmission feel old and it's still under 12months old and doesn't slip bang or have sloppy changes like the omegas does:p. But after driving the Calais my shifts felt hard and ruff all of a sudden, It's taken some time too adjust again. These kickdown cables suck! when they are out because i removed the bellmouth and cables shifts are a little ruffer need too adjust it again:(.

Look what uncle slick found:D.
http://picsorban.com/upload/image025.jpg

[fpv_gtho]

From memory those rare 5.4 manual XTs equal-peg XR6Ts to 100km/h - not bad for a low-profile insurance cheater

They'd get close, but the 5250rpm rev limit cuts the manuals 3rd and 4th shift points right in before the 100km/h and 400m marks, so they look worse in figures than they really perform. Especially when many people who have driven both, say an XT V8 has more torque low down than a GT. Thank VCT for that one i suppose.

[fpv_gtho]

Since the Camry has been moved into a different market (there is no 4 Cylinder falcon, Commodore....) adding the sales together isn't really proving much. Even if Toyota believes them to be part of the same model family. .

Well its the same deal really as Ford with the Falcon and Territory, which are even more different than the Aurion and Camry. It doesnt doo much for each model, but what it does is show hope that theres still strong numbers coming out of the local plants. Mitsubishi are in trouble with low local numbers from the 380, and no real strong export markets. Ford too are in trouble, but have alot of engineering work lined up, and 2010 could open up alot of possibilities, if big brother Detroit allows it.

[motorsportnerd]

Just for my interest MSN, how does the Omega powertrain compare to that of your (later '90s) EL Falcon?

After driving the Commodore Omega (and the Aurion before that) I jumped back into my own car - and thought it would be a dog. However, it took less than a minute to decide that the ancient 4.0 litre OHC EFi engine that was still fitted to the Falcon back in the mid-late nineties is still quite a smooth unit. The engine definetly felt smoother and less corse than the Omega - unless pushed that is. The Omega feels coarse at low speeds whether pushed hard or driven gently. I guess that is one reason why I don't have much time for the Omega's engine/trans combo - my own 8-year old car isn't disgraced in comparsion.
The auto in the EL isn't as good as the Omega, but its not too bad either considering the age of the age. Guess I don't see more than 10 years extra development in the Omega's 3.6 litre V6/4-speed auto combo when compared to the EL, which was released back in 1996.
Of course - in all other ways (dynamics, accomodation, comfort, ergonomics, fuel economy, body strength, safety, equipment) the EL is a long, long way behind the VE Omega.



Oddly, the (admittedly few) US mag tests I've seen of Cadillac CTS (RWD) heap praise on its smooth donk, which is a 3.6 litre Global V6 similar to Commodore :confused:

The Cadillac has the 5-speed auto - which would improve things greatly



Regards the 5.4 Fairmont, I've previously told about the mate's '03 BA XT V8 auto, an ex-cop unit bought two years ago for $21k. Great to drive, lots of twist right from idle & gets low 20s in mpg around town. Had new rotors fitted but no other real issues, a few crap plastic clips broken. I think it's now done 90k kms? Btw an aftermarket V8 LPG kit is available. From memory those rare 5.4 manual XTs equal-peg XR6Ts to 100km/h - not bad for a low-profile insurance cheater

I was very tempted by the Fairmont. However, I'll planning to commit to a sizeable mortgage to buy a unit/house in the next 12 months, so such toys will have to wait. Probably until next year once my budget settles down.
By which time a similar car will probably be about $15K....

[STREETFIRE]

That's a bit harsh. I'd say everyone has the right to like or not like whatever car they choose. And to feel free to state their opinion (freedom of speech is very important in my opinion). Would you ask Blue Oval supporters who have highlighted the VE's shortcomings to familiarise themselves with their &quot;local international airport&quot; as well?
If so, guess I'd better go find my passport:p
I'm not talking about people who don't like VE, I'm talkin' about people who say the VE's "crap, shit, sucks..." I mean, I don't mind a Falcon. I just support VE. I don't go telling people who drive Falcons to "take a hike, it's better than driving in that car", you know?

And I think the 380 VR-X is way behind on dynamics compared to the SV6, and the Aurion Sportivo ZR6 can't even dream coming close to the SV6, let alone matching it.

[fpv_gtho]

Have you driven all 3 of them personally?

[motorsportnerd]

Dynamically, he's right - the VE is ahead. But the gap is not as big as one might think....

[nota]

I was very tempted by the Fairmont.

By which time a similar car will probably be about $15K....
http://allclassifieds.com.au/c/ac?a=vc&i=518696699

Well you could immediately boost your savings via an EL-EF backtrade! :D (jk)

Imo this EF Ghia V8 is a good example of the folly in spending vast amounts of money for a new car. Given half a chance it would most probably deliver four years or so of dirt-cheap but perfectly adequate motoring - yet it will never EVER depreciate more than $4,500. For contrast that's one year's depreciation of an already 3 y/o BA Ghia V8 equivalent, let alone a new BF Ghia

There used to be a veritable gulf (in appearance, technology drive-experience) between new cars and 10 y/o versions of same - eg think Holden HQ vs Holden FB! But the gap has closed significantly, and cars like that EF still drive acceptably well in modern traffic conditions. And they exemplify why average non-lease private buyers (fiscally neutered by morgage, wife, kids etc) will find it hard to justify committing massive amounts of their family savings - or enmeshing themselves in equally massive debt, more likely - for that fleeting new-car experience

Why fork out $50,000 or even $30,000 for a brand-new family car (which the kids are going to trash anyway) only to watch the value of your 2nd largest life-spend evaporate before your eyes? Why indeed, if you can purchase something that will (for say 90% of driving duties) do the job just as effectively, for under 10% of the equivalent new-car price

(and thanks for taking up your time for that writeup) :)

[STREETFIRE]

Dynamically, he's right - the VE is ahead. But the gap is not as big as one might think....
Well, it proves that power steering can't block true feel. Falcon is very close... I mean very close and front drivers won't ever eclipse rear-drivers for dynamics - 380 keeps its nose in front of Aurion dynamically speaking. Falcon is very fun to drive (brawny engine) while the Aurion's VSC is not good - when you don't need it it's there to spoil the fun, and when you do need it, it's surprising late acting.
But I hate the SV6's tall gearing - I mean, why tall?

[fpv_gtho]

Tall gearing is more economical. Holden have stated though theyve gone for performance over economy, but i guess theyre always going to have it reasonably tall for the amount of highway driving people do when travelling.

[STREETFIRE]

But it defeats the purpose of the SV6 - a sporty six-cylinder with more zing than the ordinary large sedan. You don't need gearing to make decent fuel consumption - use high-tech, lower displacement engines. Like the Aurion (admittedly) but it also has low torque.

[SlickHolden]

Well, it proves that power steering can't block true feel. Falcon is very close... I mean very close and front drivers won't ever eclipse rear-drivers for dynamics - 380 keeps its nose in front of Aurion dynamically speaking. Falcon is very fun to drive (brawny engine) while the Aurion's VSC is not good - when you don't need it it's there to spoil the fun, and when you do need it, it's surprising late acting.
But I hate the SV6's tall gearing - I mean, why tall?
MSN took me for a drive in a Aurion today and my opinions on it are this.
Ride is pretty good but it is the base.
Nose is very quite.
Transmission is very nice smooth shifter.
Engine very nice note too it when going hard, Torque sure it lacks it down low but it doesn't stop it building up power and then letting it loose when the max torque boots in.
Overall i didn't mind it at all it was very good, It leaves the Avalon and old camry for dead.
Can you have fun in it.... You can have fun in any car;).

Tall gearing is more economical. Holden have stated though theyve gone for performance over economy, but i guess theyre always going to have it reasonably tall for the amount of highway driving people do when travelling.
In Auto the 5 speed and 195 you can tap 87kp/h in first redline:p I know because the manual shift didn't change:D.

[fpv_gtho]

But it defeats the purpose of the SV6 - a sporty six-cylinder with more zing than the ordinary large sedan. You don't need gearing to make decent fuel consumption - use high-tech, lower displacement engines. Like the Aurion (admittedly) but it also has low torque.

SV6's these days are almost as much of a target by fleet's as the Omega are due to their higher resale. The fact is also, despite what Holden market the SV6 as, its going to be stuck piggy backing on other hardware Holden uses. The Calais and SV6 therefore since they share the 195 engine, are probably going to share almost everything in the driveline.

As for the engines, well Holden are supposed to have a high tech engine now. Initial impressions in the VZ didnt seem to indicate the jump over the Ecotec which was needed, but the platform is there now. As for lower displacement, thats not always a solution. Smaller, less torquey engines need to work harder, which puts more strain on the engine. When theyre also constantly in their powerbands, that robs the engine of efficiency also.

[SlickHolden]

SV6 and Calais share everything in V6 versions, Only change is body and interior, Thats why i would like the calais if i wanted some fancy style and more gadgets over the SV6 sporty looks.

When i first seen a VZ go hard with 175 engine it sounded like a deep digaredo fart. Now it's not much better in VE omega:D.. But the 195 is really impressive too me, The Aurion V6 had a better engine note going hard but i still didn't mind the 195 engine, It shits on the 180 easy, And too think this is the same engine as the 180 with minor changes between them?.
I guess also the exhaust could help but one sounds deep loud like it's blocked up and ready too explode, And the other is very free flowing and much quieter.

[STREETFIRE]

Stuff the V6s, If I had a choice, the V8 would be in my garage as soon as you could say "Sold!"
Why don't Toyota offer manuals with the Aurion? Even for the upcoming TRD Aurion, there's only auto tranny.

[fpv_gtho]

And too think this is the same engine as the 180 with minor changes between them?.

Just wait until the DI version gets picked up by Holden. Some figures for the version going into the 08 CTS have come out, how does ~220kw and ~360nm sound?

[2ndclasscitizen]

Mmm, sounds pretty good to me. I imagine the driect injection will help the economy as well. Hopefully they'll add the 6spd to it as well.

[SlickHolden]

Stuff the V6s, If I had a choice, the V8 would be in my garage as soon as you could say &quot;Sold!&quot;.
Why don't Toyota offer manuals with the Aurion? Even for the upcoming TRD Aurion, there's only auto tranny.
You can't do that, But your preference is fine, But the major sales of all these cars is V6's or I6's. And 8%+ go for a 6. With 6's of today being faster then a V8 of yesterday with the economy of a 4cyl from the 90's you can't ignore them.
Manual might be offered in the TRD AWD? version

Just wait until the DI version gets picked up by Holden. Some figures for the version going into the 08 CTS have come out, how does ~220kw and ~360nm sound?
Last i herd they were having trouble getting the noise of it down, I didnt know DI would make the engine heaps louder?.
Knowing holden they will only give it 210kw, Or maybe they won't:eek:

[Mr. Jinx]

I hope the Calais/V/SV6 gets the DI HFV6 and the 6-speed auto combo as per the CTS!

Perhaps then they can finally drop the 4-speeder, and have it replaced by the current 5-speed. Fingers crossed for 2009!

[motorsportnerd]

Well, it proves that power steering can't block true feel. Falcon is very close... I mean very close and front drivers won't ever eclipse rear-drivers for dynamics - 380 keeps its nose in front of Aurion dynamically speaking. Falcon is very fun to drive (brawny engine) while the Aurion's VSC is not good - when you don't need it it's there to spoil the fun, and when you do need it, it's surprising late acting.
But I hate the SV6's tall gearing - I mean, why tall?

It sounds a bit like you're quoting the Wheels' comparison from the January issue.
I haven't driven the SV6 or the Aurion ZR6 (yet), but I have driven the Falcon XR6 & XT, 380 & 380 VRX, Aurion AT-X and VE Omega.
I don't agree with Wheels' regarding the Aurion and 380 dynamics. The base Aurion is easily better the the base 380. The Aurion has no issues with torque steer for example, whereas the 380 has a few minor issues. I'd go as far as saying the Aurion AT-X matches the 380 VRX. And comparing the 380 VRX to the Falcon XR6 - I didn't think there was a huge gulf between those two cars.
For the way I (and probably most people) drive, the differences between all four Aussie built cars isn't that great.
As for the stability/traction control interfering - trust me, you've got to be going at pretty high speeds (in relation to the tightness of the corner) to trigger it in any of the cars. I've probably only had the traction or stability control intervene a few times in any of the cars. I think Cyco got the traction/stability control more interested in the Omega VE than I did:p . If you want to drive a car where the electronics intervene constantly drive a Toyota RAV4 - the brake assist will take over and brake harder than necessary for example.
Anyway, why do some enthusiasts tend to focus on dynamics? Its only one part of the overall picture. For my everyday driving - I don't drive enthusiastically around corners every day of the week, or for that matter, every week. I live in the middle of a big city. So, while decent handling is nice, it is only a part of the picture for me.

[motorsportnerd]

http://allclassifieds.com.au/c/ac?a=vc&i=518696699

Imo this EF Ghia V8 is a good example of the folly in spending vast amounts of money for a new car. Given half a chance it would most probably deliver four years or so of dirt-cheap but perfectly adequate motoring - yet it will never EVER depreciate more than $4,500. For contrast that's one year's depreciation of an already 3 y/o BA Ghia V8 equivalent, let alone a new BF Ghia

There used to be a veritable gulf (in appearance, technology drive-experience) between new cars and 10 y/o versions of same - eg think Holden HQ vs Holden FB! But the gap has closed significantly, and cars like that EF still drive acceptably well in modern traffic conditions. s

Why fork out $50,000 or even $30,000 for a brand-new family car (which the kids are going to trash anyway) only to watch the value of your 2nd largest life-spend evaporate before your eyes? Why indeed, if you can purchase something that will (for say 90% of driving duties) do the job just as effectively, for under 10% of the equivalent new-car price

(and thanks for taking up your time for that writeup) :)

I fully agree with all of that. I'll stick to the EL rather than that EF - that EF has done 100,000km more than my car and is four years older. However, for $4,500, it would be hard to match it for value for money.

[SlickHolden]

As for wheels car of the year i would say.. VE or Statesman/Caprice.
A great range of suspension engines transmission too chose from. But if the Aurion had a selection of engines transmissions and models like the VE. It be so bloody close. If it had RWD it would be even. Not that the Aurion is hurt bad by FWD.. I really enjoyed the engine note it was very sweet i'll take it under my bonnet thanks;).

[STREETFIRE]

If I had a drivetrain combo to pick from any of those cars, I'd have the Falcon's driveline. Torquey engine, ZF gearbox and the punch.

[motorsportnerd]

OK, if we can pick and match - I'll have the Aurion's engine, the Falcon's ZF gearbox and the Commodore's chassis.

[SlickHolden]

OK, if we can pick and match - I'll have the Aurion's engine, the Falcon's ZF gearbox and the Commodore's chassis.
That's probably a very good choice:D I'd be curious too know how it would run in the heavy VE body?.

[Daz27]

... I've probably only had the traction or stability control intervene a few times in any of the cars. I think Cyco got the traction/stability control more interested in the Omega VE than I did:p ...

Take note, Avis...:D

[motorsportnerd]

I haven't received any fines in the mail from that weekend, so while the stability control may have got interested a few times, it looks like the South Australian speed cameras didn't.

[fpv_gtho]

That's probably a very good choice:D I'd be curious too know how it would run in the heavy VE body?.

Depends on your driving style. We harp on about "needing" a big engine, but really its only us and America that seem to demand it. Look at Europe, most of the basic large 6's are around the 3L mark, same with Japan. The Aurion at 3.5 is really neither a big six, or your garden variety, but as a result of its tighter cylinder dimensions it loves a rev which has hidden its torque deficit to Holden and Ford.

[SlickHolden]

Chris couldn't have had the ESP kick in more then we did one Sunday afternoon:p It never left the trip computer for 30min:D.

fpv there is no doubt the aurion will loose low down too even the alloytech engine not the 180 but. But it does have a rev me hard note:D

[STREETFIRE]

OK, if we can pick and match - I'll have the Aurion's engine, the Falcon's ZF gearbox and the Commodore's chassis.
I would pick that combo too. Too bad the Aurion had to be that badly styled... that's why Commodore's flogging the Aurion in sales.

[fpv_gtho]

I'd say the primary reason is because theres still a huge amount of people that only associate Holden with locally produced large cars, and they have a massive following.

[motorsportnerd]

And fleets love the Commodore - though I'm not sure how Holden's new "no discounts to fleets" policy will pan out in sales as 2006 turns into 2007.
Aurion sales are affected not just by the styling (which isn't that bad in the flesh anyway), but also by the fact that few people know what an "Aurion" is. If they'd kept the "Camry" name (much like Honda has the Accord Euro and Accord America), it would suffer a few perpection problems but at least the market (read fleets primarily and some private buyers) would know what it was.
I'm sure that's only a short term problem though.

[motorsportnerd]

That's probably a very good choice:D I'd be curious too know how it would run in the heavy VE body?.

Easy - don't use the heavy VE body. My ideal Aussie V6 would not only use the engine/trans/chassis combo mentioned above, it would be lighter than any of the current Aussie cars (under 1,500kg).
Anyway, the Aurion may haul harder in the high rev ranges, but it doesn't suffer too bad for low down torque. There's still way more low down torque than many other cars on the road.

[SlickHolden]

I got too hire a Calais one week when you down:D Even for a day:D.
Find the little road my brother likes:p

[STREETFIRE]

Aurion sales are affected not just by the styling (which isn't that bad in the flesh anyway)
Well, the front end looks ugly and the rest of the car looks like a Camry (which is to say, ugly as well) and I've seen only three in the metal. Hardly anybody in Adelaide's buying Aurions. Same with the Camry. On the other hand, the VE's are all over the place for a new model.

[Blue Supra]

Ive seen prolly a 3/1 ratio of VE commodoes to Aurions around town, not too bad i thought.

[STREETFIRE]

You mean you have seen more Aurions than VEs? Where do you live?

[fpv_gtho]

Canberra;

Ive seen barely any of either, but probably more VE's .

[STREETFIRE]

Adelaide;
1 Aurion = 10 VE's

[Blue Supra]

no i see 3 VEs to 1 Aurion.

had the numbers round wrong way sorry :o

[clutch-monkey]

i see no mitsu 380's, a handful of Aurions and VE's everywhere

[STREETFIRE]

I hardly ever see an Aurion on the road. I see more 380s than Aurions, but more VE's than both put together. But the Falcon I see a lot because it's so old.

[IBrake4Rainbows]

I saw my first Aurion in the flesh the other day - it looked VERY large, but a little disjointed.

I see bucketloads of VE's - probably because my works' carpark is full of sales reps - they're VERY large vehicles - one was parked next to an S15 (Which to be fair is a small vehicle) but it just dwarfed it. freaked me out :p

[STREETFIRE]

I think it's just the area of appearance that the Aurion flunks totally. Someone walks to their Toyota dealer, says "I want a big six", sees the Aurion and says "I'll come back later". Later he is caught behind the shop vomiting.

[clutch-monkey]

anyone think the VE looks awkward because it's so tall? if i ever bought one i'd like the roofline dropped about 2 inches.

[IBrake4Rainbows]

I think it's got too much body, actually. the window line is fine, it's just very slabby in it's design.

[STREETFIRE]

anyone think the VE looks awkward because it's so tall? if i ever bought one i'd like the roofline dropped about 2 inches.
No. It looks great. Full stop.

[clutch-monkey]

I think it's got too much body, actually. the window line is fine, it's just very slabby in it's design.
yeah, and it's compounded by being considerably taller imo, especially when you see it next a VZ or a falcon. looks too chunky from some angles because of it

[fpv_gtho]

I think they look awkward cause theyve got the wheelbase and rear overhang of a statesman, the front overhang of a mini and the roofline of a coupe. I prefer the typical 3 box design the Falcon still has.

[STREETFIRE]

Short front overhang + coupe roofline = ultimate pwnage.
It doesn't look awkward. I've heard Ford fanboys saying what you said.

[clutch-monkey]

imo it does look awkward/unresolved, and the ass is grotesquely fat. And you can hardly accuse me of being a ford fanboy LMAO :D

[STREETFIRE]

IMO it doesn't and you're in the minority here. And I was talking to fpv gtho when i mentioned ford fanboys.

[fpv_gtho]

Who gave him a double dose of attitude?^^

[clutch-monkey]

IMO it doesn't and you're in the minority here.
probably, and i don't care: because after all, i don't have to drive them.
there's something to be said for light weight cars, rather than a 1800kg+ saloon, for a daily driver.

[STREETFIRE]

Who gave him a double dose of attitude?You did :D and now I'm angry :mad:

[fpv_gtho]

Well before you go bust a cap in some fool, maybe next time you choose to label others as fanboys, you think about how you may be viewed when you express such strong pro-Holden, anti-Toyota views.

[motorsportnerd]

Short front overhang + coupe roofline = ultimate pwnage.
It doesn't look awkward. I've heard Ford fanboys saying what you said.

There's only one fact when it comes to styling - a cars styling is always a matter of personal taste. You think the VE looks great - great that's your opinion.
I think the VE looks good, but not great. I like the shape of the roofline curve and the way the car looks hunkered down - but it still looks way too tall.
As for the Aurion - it looks much better in the flesh. I don't like the grille and there's too much front overhang, but its got a nice overall hunkered down look. Saw a ZR6 with the body kit in silver the other day and thought it looked nicely understated in that colour.
But styling is always a matter of personal preference. I don't think you can "own" anyone with statements on styling.

[clutch-monkey]

- but it still looks way too tall.
oh good, i had hoped i wasn't the only one to think that :)

[SlickHolden]

When the camry was first out i still stand by what i said i thought it looked good. Aurion, Now it's very hard too pick them unless behind one. You really need too find the sporty models in the cool colours too pick it easy.


Now guys dudes, With the VE you just all need too see it above base model:D
Take these 3 as a example.. 3 angles low roof line.
http://picsorban.com/upload/number-1.jpg http://picsorban.com/upload/number-2.jpg http://picsorban.com/upload/number-3.jpg

And now going into the city everyday we have been seeing VE after VE. Plenty of SV6's SS's And a good amount of SS-V's. Some Calais-V's also, But plenty more Berlinas then Omega's. And we seem too see a good amount of them Vw's GTI's. Camry/Aurion's pass as well, I wish they used the same name Toyota with the camry Aurion because they are hard too pick. The Camry SX6.. Or replace the camry name with Aurion which sounds better:D.

[motorsportnerd]

Slick - don't you wash your cars before taking photos?:p

I still think the VE does look a bit tall compared to your VP, but to an extent, that's the current design trend. Also dictated a bit by safety legislation. Truth be told, the Aurion/Camry and the Mits 380 are too tall as well.
Older designs form the 90s (all Commodore through to the VY, Falcons up to the current BF and the 90s Camry's) had lower roof lines. The modern look is for the front to be low, the back high and a raised roof line that flows to the rear and also to allow for more head room in a roll-over. There is a practical problem with this sort of design - it makes it hard to see out the rear due to the rear being so high.
Still, design trends will change again, and the "tall" thing is a minor criticism from my point of view.

[fpv_gtho]

The big difference is the proportions between glasshouse and bodywork. On the street, a VP might look fairly normal but up against a VE, it looks like it could do with a chopped top.

[SlickHolden]

Slick - don't you wash your cars before taking photos?:p

I still think the VE does look a bit tall compared to your VP, but to an extent, that's the current design trend. Also dictated a bit by safety legislation. Truth be told, the Aurion/Camry and the Mits 380 are too tall as well.
Older designs form the 90s (all Commodore through to the VY, Falcons up to the current BF and the 90s Camry's) had lower roof lines. The modern look is for the front to be low, the back high and a raised roof line that flows to the rear and also to allow for more head room in a roll-over. There is a practical problem with this sort of design - it makes it hard to see out the rear due to the rear being so high.
Still, design trends will change again, and the "tall" thing is a minor criticism from my point of view.
haven't washed the VP in more then a month don't remind me:(:(..
And the VE:p i enjoyed getting it dirty:D..
When i got back into my car after the VE i felt like i was sitting in all glass rood:D it felt so open so much space above my head:D. But i did feel very safe thats what i liked the most the safe driving feeling.
But the VP sits 55mm lower on king springs:).

The big difference is the proportions between glasshouse and bodywork. On the street, a VP might look fairly normal but up against a VE, it looks like it could do with a chopped top.
A serious chop and a half:D.. Your right i liked my car sitting on that lawn, But with the VE it looks so high funny looking:(.

[thatdbeme]

ultimate pwnage.

the world is being taken over by nerds

[Daz27]

I lowered my AU recently by 50mm.... when a VE pulls up next to me at the lights, Im looking at there door handles at eye level. Cmon Holden, its a car not a block of flats on wheels.

[Mr. Jinx]

You lowered your car by 5cm? Wow.

[motorsportnerd]

The final three were announced on A Current Affair tonight:

BMW 3-series Coupe
Holden Commodore VE
Toyota Aurion

So, I was wrong - the Statesman/Caprice WM didn't win.

Anyone want to predict the fallout if the BMW 3-series Coupe beats the two locally built cars?
VE beating Aurion or vice-versa will lead to predicatable fallout and comments on both sides.
Either Aurion or 3-series winning would be the most controversial COTY winner ever.

[henk4]

Either Aurion or 3-series winning would be the most controversial COTY winner ever.

what you are actually saying is that it is controversial because a non-aussie product is winning:D

[motorsportnerd]

Yes.
The Aurion is Aussie built - but of course Toyota's origins are Japanese.
Part of it is a perception that the Commodore needs to win to strengthen the future of the Australian motor industry and help make it more viable.
Its wrong of course - a Car Of the Year award doesn't make or break a whole industry.

[henk4]

Its wrong of course - a Car Of the Year award doesn't make or break a whole industry.

I thought it was supposed to be an independent and objective contest. How naive...

[IBrake4Rainbows]

The Bimmer would have to be bleeding fantastic to overcome value issues. the Commodore will have to overcome a reasonably poor low-end range, and the Aurion will have to overcome the perception of being an un-australian product.

this IS interesting.

[nota]

Back in the day, an aspect to Coty verdicts was its use in acknowledging significant progress in local industry. Which is why the otherwise dowdy XP Falcon won COTY in '65, as it recognised Ford AU's ability and dedication in finally conquering the myriad engineering deficiencies of the original half-baked 1960 edition. Similarly the '68 award for VE-Valiant was as much a symbolic acknowledgement of Chrysler as a maturing local manufacturer, than to the wobbly Valiant itself. Likewise that '73 decision for the P-76 win incorporated a salute to Leyland's commitment of local enterprise

Imo it's going to be very difficult for Wheels to pass by the impact and symbolism of Holden's brand new baby, and the achievement this new exportable platform range represents to local industry, as this car definitively signals Holden's ascendancy in design & engineering for delivering a truly 'no excuses' world-competitive product

[motorsportnerd]

Yes - it is going to be interesting. I'm very surprised the BMW made it to the top 3.

As to the old Wheels criteria of the car having to be locally assembled. If that rule still applied today, there would have been four contenders this year, and none last year (well, the facelifted Falcon BF I guess).

Edit: Oops, forgot about the Mits 380 that was released last year - that's an Aussie built car.

[SlickHolden]

I lowered my AU recently by 50mm.... when a VE pulls up next to me at the lights, Im looking at there door handles at eye level. Cmon Holden, its a car not a block of flats on wheels.
Thats because the handles are head height:D..
Same with me i pull next too a 380 or Aurion/Camry i see doors, I pull behind a 380/Aurion/VE/BA and all i see is exhaust pipes:p.

[Rockefella]

The BMW 3-series wins awards like it's a job. I'll put my money on the Bimmer.

[IBrake4Rainbows]

I pulled up behind a E series clubsport the other day. the high bootline coupled with a spoiler meant I could not see the rear window. i doubt he could see me.

this is a worry :(

[SlickHolden]

Wouldn't be the first or last car too do it.
I got a ride about 3 weeks ago home in a convertible Ford Capri, Sporty little thing but we felt like we sat on the ground.

Like henk once said they build them like this today because we share the road with that many SUV's 4WD's And now hummers:eek:

[thatdbeme]

the VE will win because this is wheels magazine! what else could there be?

if they didnt choose the VE i would start buying their magazine again

[motorsportnerd]

Well thatdbeme - I guess you won't be buying Wheels again?:p

Officially announced - Holden Commodore VE is Wheels Car of the Year for 2007.

[fpv_gtho]

Not much of a surprise really. Aurion no doubt got second, if they actually confirm the final order.

[monaroCountry]

ACA The three finalists Video

http://ninemsn.video.msn.com/v/en-au...&mediaid=32734

[thatdbeme]

Well - I guess you won't be buying Wheels again.

Officially announced - Holden Commodore VE is Wheels Car of the Year for 2007.

im not stuborn enough to say never again

but i really doubt it, theyre a joke

[monaroCountry]

the Aurion will have to overcome the perception of being an un-australian product.

Amongst other things......................

[thatdbeme]

Amongst other things......................

and more specifically?

[motorsportnerd]

Amongst other things......................

Do we really wish to argue about this - again?
All cars have faults. Even the Commodore VE.

[SlickHolden]

the VE will win because this is wheels magazine! what else could there be?

if they didnt choose the VE i would start buying their magazine again
It wouldn't have ever crossed your mind that a shit Aussie built car might be good enough overall too win such a award?

[fpv_gtho]

Now now, lets try keep this positive for now.

Being a local mag though, you have to think theres going to be even the slightest hint of pro-local bias amongst Wheels' editorial staff.

In any case, both the VE and Aurion made the top 3. Whether that was subconciously or conciously manipulated to avoid controversy, or the simplest reason that they both were in the top 3 of eligible cars this year should matter too much. Whilst one won and one didnt, theyre both 2 of the best cars released this year.

[motorsportnerd]

Lets keep in mind that cars are not compared to each other.
There's no way that the VE (or the Aurion for that matter) are better than an S-Class Merc for example. Yet the S-Class Merc didn't make the final 8 as it didn't do so well against the criteria.
Doesn't take too much though to see how the VE and Aurion did so well against the criteria.
Function: both blitz that, especially the VE which fills so many different hats (basic family sedan, sports sedan, luxury sedan) quite well with a very large and flexible interior and a decent drive to boot. Only the base model's engine/trans let it down a touch. But even the Omega performs the role of basic family transport quite well.
The Aurion performs the role of basic family transport even better then the basic Commodores, but it doesn't have enough diversity in its range to fulfill more than two hats - basic family sedan and medium-luxury sedan. And while it drives very well (its dynamics are much better than pretty much any pre-BA era Aussie six, except perhaps an XR6), it is behind Commodore.
Safety: Commodore has exceptional body strength and standard ESP and ABS, but is slightly let down by only having dual airbags on the base models. This last point will cost the Commodore a 5-star NCAP rating, but won't have hurt it against the Wheel's safety criteria.
The Aurion blitzes this category. Six airbags, ESP and ABS standard across the range. Aurion's body strength and integrity is also very high. I expect it will be first Aussie built car to gain a 5-star NCAP ranking.
Value How can either of these cars not be good value. They both are all the way through the range. Aurion slightly better at bottom of range, VE at top of the range.
Technology - Commodore scores here for its suspension technology and the engineering required for its body strength. However, old tech 4-speed auto would've hurt it a bit.
Aurion scores here for its high-tech and super smooth V6 matted to the six-speed auto.
Efficiency. This is where the Commodore hurts - its not the most fuel efficient car on the block.
This is where the Aurion would've made back anything lost in the dynamics/diversity department. That engine/trans delivers impressive economy and low emissions.

I'll wait for the mag before I comment further, but I reckon the VE will have won on the fact its more fun to drive and has greater diversity. Whereas the Aurion will have almost got there through its better marks against the efficiency criteris. Because, against the criteria above - both cars are so damned close it isn't funny.

Full story here: http://www.carpoint.com.au/car-review/2318595.aspx

What is most interesting is the line:

"In one of the most closely-fought, three-way showdowns in the award’s 44-year history, the VE – together with its HSV E-Series spin-offs – has triumphed over finalists Toyota’s Aurion and BMW’s 3 Series Coupe at the last hurdle."

I'm not in the least surprised that it was so close.
I am trying to figure how how the 3-series coupe did so well when the 3-series sedan didn't figure that strongly last year. Perhaps the 3-series would've won if both the coupe and sedan had been released in the same year.

Anyway, I'll admit that the VE deserves the win, whatever my reservations about the base models.

[SlickHolden]

Overall it's best. Because as you said the Aurion hurts with the 1 engine tranny.
So whilst it's a better family car at a better price, As we move up into the sporty s too luxury versions it starts too loose it's lead fast and then gets blown away with the V8's.
I didn't have a problem with the Aurions ride and i loved the engine:).. Love too know what it can do with a 6 speed manual or Falcons ZF:D.

MSN you need too spin in a Calais V6:D.. One of these days I'll get one for a day and will go hunting rabbits:p They are pretty expensive over the bade models.. I could have saved $200 or more if i went for the Omega and not the Calais.

But the Calais V6 was great on fuel for me i was impressed with it, It's a better engine tranny set-up then the omega and it is much better on fuel economy.

[fpv_gtho]

Commodore scores here for its suspension technology and the engineering required for its body strength.

Even here, its taking things that the 380 and BA had, and simply putting them together. Of course they would have made advances on them, but single piece side body pressings and multi link rear end's arent new.

[motorsportnerd]

Yeah, I will take the Calais for a spin some time.
The result in this years COTY is probably a fitting one for both pro-VE and pro-Aurion camps. As yet, I don't know just how close it was. I remember the last time a COTY was this close was the BA-Mazda6-Jazz year, when the magazine commented that the BA only just pulled it off against the other two. Its a pity they no longer tell us which judge voted for what, but the text was enough to let us know. IAnd you know what? It looks like 2008 will be a rerun of 2002 - with new Falcon, Mazda6 and I would assume a new Jazz likely to all be released in 2008.

[nota]

As an adjunct I watched the Channel 9 news tonight. Their report of the VE COTY amounted to maybe 5 seconds containing two sentences, no footage

This brief piece immediately led into their reporting that Overlander magazine had awarded 4wdOTY to Toyota Prado, with extended dialogue (20 seconds?) backed by lots of footage, which concluded with some 'deal closer' verbage pitched in advertising-style of Toyota's 'overall quality of engineering excellence' (or similar)

After this thinly disguised Toyota promo (and Holden ignore) it was "Next up after the break is Toyota Sports Tonight!" :rolleyes:

[thatdbeme]

Overall it's best. Because as you said the Aurion hurts with the 1 engine tranny.

but the VE largely had carryover engines and transmissions, which really needed to be upgraded
much much worse

[motorsportnerd]

Well, at least the mid-spec VE models got a 5-speed autos and the V8s (yes, I know, carried over) got a tickle over and a 6-speed auto.
But we've commented heaps of times here that the base Omega and the Berlina got the wrong engine/trans.

[nota]

but the VE largely had carryover engines and transmissions, which really needed to be upgraded
much much worse
How much of VZ's powertrain was "largely carried over" in Holden VE?

I can think of one engine (180 V6) out of three, and its related four-speed auto (again one of three) and the 6.0 V8 (debut year) & six-speed manual. Anything else I've forgotten?

[fpv_gtho]

Both the Alloytec's got retuned for VE, but remained fundamentally the same. Likewise with the Gen4 V8, which recieved a rename from L76 to L98. The 5 speed auto had been present in VZ with the 190kw engine, so the V8's 6 speed auto is the only truly new item.

[SlickHolden]

but the VE largely had carryover engines and transmissions, which really needed to be upgraded
much much worse
But your really stretching the argument of nothing here.
It's the base and only the base engine transmission combo with questions;)
You don't replace newly built engines after 2 years. I can't think of anyone that does it. But you wont here anyone defend the 4 speed auto here.

[thatdbeme]

But your really stretching the argument of nothing here.
It's the base and only the base engine transmission combo with questions;)
You don't replace newly built engines after 2 years. I can't think of anyone that does it. But you wont here anyone defend the 4 speed auto here.

i really dont see it as nothing.
and in general the car introduced is just keeping up. the engines dont really get them ahead, they have a 4 speed auto on a base model which is not acceptable, but even with the 5 speed on the V6s, they a really only keeping pace with everyone else at a bare minimum. air con still isnt standard on the base model and when considering safety and comfort they are just keeping up with the rest of the market. there is no innovation.

[Mr. Jinx]

A lot of the Japanese cars lack safety credentials - unless they're the range topper :rolleyes:

[motorsportnerd]

i really dont see it as nothing.
and in general the car introduced is just keeping up. the engines dont really get them ahead, they have a 4 speed auto on a base model which is not acceptable, but even with the 5 speed on the V6s, they a really only keeping pace with everyone else at a bare minimum. air con still isnt standard on the base model and when considering safety and comfort they are just keeping up with the rest of the market. there is no innovation.

You're quite right - most of us on this site have been slamming the V6's lack of refinement, the 4-speed auto and the lack of airconditioning since day 1.
However, Slick is also right - Holden won't replace an all-new engine only two years after it was introduced. They have a lot of work to do on engine refinement however.

[IBrake4Rainbows]

Well - I guess you won't be buying Wheels again.

Officially announced - Holden Commodore VE is Wheels Car of the Year for 2007.

Oh grow up - just because they don't agree with you.

I happen to think it's a good choice, perhaps not the best choice when you look at the specifics, but the package is a good one. and, despite the fact it's only incrementally better than the competition, better is still better.

a worthy win.

[motorsportnerd]

Oh grow up - just because they don't agree with you.

I happen to think it's a good choice, perhaps not the best choice when you look at the specifics, but the package is a good one. and, despite the fact it's only incrementally better than the competition, better is still better.

a worthy win.

:confused: Um, I was responding tongue in cheek to thatdbeme. And letting everyone know the official result. Sorry for any offensive.
You've probably read most of my comments on the Commodore and Wheels COTY. I haven't actually said that the choice of the Commodore a bad choice at any point. I'll make it really, really clear - I actually think the V8 Commodores are excellent cars and the V6 cars with the 5-speed also are pretty good. And I've said that in the past.

Edit: I can see how the statement "Well - - I guess you won't be buying Wheels again." could be misinterpreted. Bad English on my part. I definitely won't stop buying Wheels (I bought the COTY issue today in fact) - I was referring to the previous poster. I guess I should've just announced the official result in the first post and then given a tongue in cheek reponse to thatbeme in the next post. If the mods want to clean my post and make it into two separate posts up - feel free. Apologies for any confusion I may have caused.

[fpv_gtho]

MSN, i think youre the victim of misquoting

[thatdbeme]

yes, very confusing

[SlickHolden]

i really dont see it as nothing.
and in general the car introduced is just keeping up. the engines dont really get them ahead, they have a 4 speed auto on a base model which is not acceptable, but even with the 5 speed on the V6s, they a really only keeping pace with everyone else at a bare minimum. air con still isnt standard on the base model and when considering safety and comfort they are just keeping up with the rest of the market. there is no innovation.
Your still strechting it out here..
80% of the base model cars in the country are sold with a 5 speed manual or 4 speed auto.
With engines, I know all about your thought on pushrod motors;) What was it you said inefficient low tech crap would you say that on the 300c forums:p? But you think the 300c is gold? Big questions there on your ability's too be unbiased when making comments about commodore. Or falcon for that matter... Your thoughts of falcon commodore owners are hoons bogans and nothing more. Is that fair? Guess i'm a hoon and bogan then.
So when it comes too your comments they always carry a large part of biased with them. Why because you drive a FWD Honda and everybody tells me it's not a real car because it's FWD... So you need too hate the RWD cars now? I'll tell you something as i have learnt, Try and make a gap in the middle and go on it. I'm open too anything but you have a real nasty spiteful hate for 2 but 1 more so.

Back too the V6 with 5 speed.. Better too keep up on the leaders then lag behind like the base model engine transmission does.
V8 engines are very good even for pushrod:p..
As for suspension ride etc it's not just keeping up at bare minimum it's ahead bare minimum.
Safety anyone that moans about a 4.5/5 ratting has issues.

But what do you want?

Holden too design a 500kg car that's got the strength of a hummer? Or a engine that's 1lt large electric petrol that runs @ 1.1l/100km but has 400kw and 700Nm? Drives by itself sit back and have a smoke?.. When it comes too the large car in this market they are all close together because it doesn't offer a advantage too move 10 generation ahead of the competition.. You really nit pick.

I'm sure you enjoy driving your Honda Accord around the ACT, And i'm sure you love it, I might also. But think of this for ever person you bag or degrade because you say you get the same for driving a honda Accord FWD remember this it will never end when it's always a gotta get back at you thing. You got upset because someone might have said your un Australian because you don't drive a Commodore or Falcon.. Think about how you felt and then think about the comments you say about Falcon Commodore drivers before you cry fowl?.

I'm not here too fight with you, You can love what you want and hate what you want, Just don't let the hate eat you when you make rude and nasty comments as i have seen in other places.

[acemotorsport]

i drive a honda accord i dont feel un australian

[SlickHolden]

My mums best mate drives a Honda bus she calls it like a small little bus with 5 doors i'm the last person that's going too bag another car.
I wanted too buy a Camry last year too get around in just encase:D Should have got it now:(.

[Blitz_]

Yeoow has it been posted yet? The VE won..not suprisingly lol

[motorsportnerd]

Your thoughts of falcon commodore owners are hoons bogans and nothing more. Is that fair? Guess i'm a hoon and bogan then.

You and me both then, mate. When are you planning to grow a mullet? And how soon do we see the pics of you driving one handed with a VB in one hand and a smokescreen out the back?:p




Safety anyone that moans about a 4.5/5 ratting has issues.

It'd be a full 5/5 if side airbags were standard across the range. Next year in the first update I'd imagine. But, you're right, no one can complain.
To quote Wheels in its summary on why the VE won COTY: "A bank-vault body, on the other hand, promises protection in all directions".

[motorsportnerd]

I've read some of the COTY article in this months Wheels magazine.

Some of the magazines comments...
ON the Commodore VE: they spend a bit of time talking about the cars faults. However, in the final analysis "From the lushly absorbent control of the Omega, through the crispness of the Calais and the eagerness of the SS, all the way to the raucous, upstart athleticism of the HSVs, the VE is a range that covers an amazing spectrum." They particularly praise the car's safety (with the sole exception of the dual airbags in the Omega), its ESP system and its dynamics.
The Toyota Aurion lost for one very big reason: "Its poor VDC is the major issue"...apparantly it doesn't work at all well on dirt and is inconsistent on the road. Quote: "the judges found that the non-switchable system...is poorly set up for Australian conditions. ...[and it] destabilised the Aurion's on-the-limit behaviour over bitumen." Also, on dirt "at least one judge, exploring the ability of the systemon Lang Lang's dirt, left the road and slapped...[a] white plastic post with the left-hand passenger door".
Ouch - can't be good considering how much of Australia's road are dirt roads.
So, Aurion lost to the Commodore primarily on the safety criteria, but was also behind on the function criteria.
To the BMW: "In the final analysis, the vexed question of value-for-money tripped the 3-series coupe at the final hurdle". No surprises there. However, "That such a compact coupe can deliver comfort and, particularly, the turbo version, vast reserves of performance and dynamic ability, tells a powerful story".
So, that's a very quick summary.

I note also that the magazine, yet again, has not published how the judges voted. From the words, it doesn't sound like it was very close. I'd love to see the summaries from each of the vote judges. They won't all have said the same thing or given the same points.

[SlickHolden]

You and me both then, mate. When are you planning to grow a mullet? And how soon do we see the pics of you driving one handed with a VB in one hand and a smokescreen out the back?





It'd be a full 5/5 if side airbags were standard across the range. Next year in the first update I'd imagine.
Hang on we are both going too buy a Aurion or 380:D
Can i drive with a Diet coke covered with a VB cooler:D And can my car smoke for me.. The mullet i had one when i was 13:p one handed driving i can do that:D.

Ah so that was why it mist the 5:).. I liked the removable front the VE has if it gets crashed it off and on with a new one, they won some award with it can't remember much about it.

[SlickHolden]

I've read some of the COTY article in this months Wheels magazine.

Some of the magazines comments...
ON the Commodore VE: they spend a bit of time talking about the cars faults. However, in the final analysis "From the lushly absorbent control of the Omega, through the crispness of the Calais and the eagerness of the SS, all the way to the raucous, upstart athleticism of the HSVs, the VE is a range that covers an amazing spectrum." They particularly praise the car's safety (with the sole exception of the dual airbags in the Omega), its ESP system and its dynamics.
The Toyota Aurion lost for one very big reason: "Its poor VDC is the major issue"...apparantly it doesn't work at all well on dirt and is inconsistent on the road. Quote: "the judges found that the non-switchable system...is poorly set up for Australian conditions. ...[and it] destabilised the Aurion's on-the-limit behaviour over bitumen." Also, on dirt "at least one judge, exploring the ability of the systemon Lang Lang's dirt, left the road and slapped...[a] white plastic post with the left-hand passenger door".
Ouch - can't be good considering how much of Australia's road are dirt roads.
So, Aurion lost to the Commodore primarily on the safety criteria, but was also behind on the function criteria.
To the BMW: "In the final analysis, the vexed question of value-for-money tripped the 3-series coupe at the final hurdle". No surprises there. However, "That such a compact coupe can deliver comfort and, particularly, the turbo version, vast reserves of performance and dynamic ability, tells a powerful story".
So, that's a very quick summary.

I note also that the magazine, yet again, has not published how the judges voted. From the words, it doesn't sound like it was very close. I'd love to see the summaries from each of the vote judges. They won't all have said the same thing or given the same points.
We could have took it too our private test track and tried it out:D Then we could have told wheels there tossers.
I read somewhere also about it being close but you also got the feeling it wasnt as close as they tried too make it out too be.

With Airbags the VE should at least come with 4 standard and then have curtain as option for starters.

[fpv_gtho]

When are you planning to grow a mullet?

Im already half way there! Just need to trim the front :p


Almost seems like a joke in retrospect the 3 series coupe made it that far.

[motorsportnerd]

Can i drive with a Diet coke covered with a VB cooler:D And can my car smoke for me..

Not if we're going to maintain the full Falcodore bogan/hoon image. VB it must be...

[motorsportnerd]

Almost seems like a joke in retrospect the 3 series coupe made it that far.

The summary on the BMW was very positive. If it had been cheaper (I don't know how much cheaper, but lets say $20K for arguments sake), it might have gone even closer.

[motorsportnerd]

We could have took it too our private test track and tried it out:D Then we could have told wheels there tossers.

More likely would've proved that the journos can drive better than I can.


I read somewhere also about it being close but you also got the feeling it wasnt as close as they tried too make it out too be.
.
That's why I wish they'd publish the tables showing what judge voted for what and how many points they gave each car (not just the top 3) in each catagory.
Motor does this in PCOTY - so why not Wheels?

[SlickHolden]

Im already half way there! Just need to trim the front :p


Almost seems like a joke in retrospect the 3 series coupe made it that far.
Can we see:D

Not if we're going to maintain the full Falcodore bogan/hoon image. VB it must be...
ok i try hard:rolleyes: