New Polo is cleaner than a Prius.

[Quiggs]

http://www.whatcar.com/news-article.aspx?NA=223572

Home > News > New Polo 'cleaner than a Prius' News via email RSS XML
New Polo 'cleaner than a Prius'
12 December 2006

New Polo 'cleaner than a Prius'
• Polo BlueMotion has CO2 emissions of 102g/km • Lower emissions than a Prius hybrid • On sale next year for around £10K

A new Volkswagen Polo which boasts fewer CO2 emissions than a Toyota Prius will go on sale in the UK next year.

VW claims the Polo BuleMotion is the most economical five-seater in Europe, emitting 102g/km – 2g/km less than Toyota's electric-hybrid.

The Polo uses a three-cylinder 1.4 direct-injection turbodiesel engine and has a combined fuel consumption of 72.4mpg.

It achieves greater efficiency than a normal TDI version using improved aerodynamics, low-resistance tyres and a gearbox with longer ratios.

The car has an uprated front spoiler and the addition of a rear spoiler and a smoother radiator grille to improve aero efficiency.

It also has a diesel particulate filter to help pump out cleaner exhaust fumes and a exhaust gas recirculation, which ultimately reduces nitrous oxide emissions.

The BlueMotion goes from 0-62mph in 12.8sec and on to a top speed of 109mph. Its 45-litre tank gives the car a theoretical range of more than 710 miles. Prices are expected to start at just over £10,000.

• Volkswagen says its first petrol-electric hybrid will probably be a Jetta in 2009.
http://www.whatcar.com/Car/Volkswagen/Polo/27766533541.jpg

For the love of all things holy, VW, bring one of these to America, with TDI, TSI, and FSI options. I will buy one.

Disclaimer: I know that the Prius and Polo are in different classes, and that the article only mentioned CO2 emissions.

[Ferrer]

Many lessons could be learned form this car and the other two 3-litre VAG cars. If all cars incorpored better aerodinamics and less weight they would be more frugal and more performant too.

[Cotterik]

all small VWs>prius

most things>prius

[jediali]

absolutely, VW has some awesome technology in these lower segment cars that other manufacturers just havent put into production yet, plus that prius deserves all its geting!

[Mr.Tiv]

I will buy one.
I would buy it if they changed that grill.

[Quiggs]

There are tons of aftermarket solutions for that grill. :)

[h00t_h00t]

I assume it would also be more enviromentally friendly to run since it doesn't have all those batterys that will eventually need disposing of.

The Lupo was better in every way, bring back the Lupo!!

[Ferrer]

There are tons of aftermarket solutions for that grill. :)
That would rather negate the point of the car.

The Lupo was better in every way, bring back the Lupo!!
I agree the Lupo was a much better car than the Fox, even though it was a lot more expensive.

[jediali]

I would buy it if they changed that grill.
its a low drag one. aside: Did you know the citroen 2CV has a couple of interchangable grills depending on how cold it is, for engine cooling purposes!

[Quiggs]

I assume it would also be more enviromentally friendly to run since it doesn't have all those batterys that will eventually need disposing of.

The Lupo was better in every way, bring back the Lupo!!
I approve this message.

http://www.cleaned.be/gallery/pics/3027.jpg

Me like. Is niiiice. </Borat>

[Mr.Tiv]

its a low drag one. aside: Did you know the citroen 2CV has a couple of interchangable grills depending on how cold it is, for engine cooling purposes!
All that really bothers me about it is that it doesn't flow. I'd like to see the seam around it go. Smoother=better.

[baddabang]

72.4 MPG? Wow nice one VW.

I doubt it will come here though Quiggs. We don't like diesels for some reason.

[Quiggs]

We don't like diesels because we're ****ing retarded.

[jediali]

We don't like diesels because we're ****ing retarded.
according to...?

[The_Canuck]

We don't like diesels because we're ****ing retarded.
Quoted for future reference.

I like this car though...nice and clean. In more then one way :D

[Quiggs]

according to...?
Me. Americans are incredibly uneducated to current diesel technology. They have the image of diesels of the 70's and that abortion of an engine GM built (the diesel-converted 350).


Quoted for future reference.
Don't make me hurt you.

[jediali]

Me. Americans are incredibly uneducated to current diesel technology. They have the image of diesels of the 70's and that abortion of an engine GM built (the diesel-converted 350).
but you have read and seen the advances in technology, surely others have too?

[Ferrer]

but you have read and seen the advances in technology, surely others have too?
Stereotypes are very hard to change indeed.

[jediali]

but if i think i dont like big pushrod V8s cos theyre low tech, then drive one to find that its actually ok, that would change my mind!

[Quiggs]

but you have read and seen the advances in technology, surely others have too?
I have, but that's mostly because I'm a car enthusiast. The people who buy cars like they're buying a toaster don't do that kind of research. They read Consumer Reports, and maybe Edmunds.com, and make their decisions based on what is the "hip" car to drive. It's better to have the perception of being green than to actually be green. Thus Prius sales have skyrocketed.

Another part of the problem is that the manufacturers who build good diesels- VW, MB, BMW- don't do anything to educate the consumer here. They don't want to take chances selling the cars, or even doing the advertising footwork they'd have to, to make diesel a success in the US.

With any luck, the new ULSD, VW's new TDI's, and Benz's diesels that are supposed to be coming out will change the mainstream consumer's mind. Then more manufacturers will take the chance, and in the end the consumer will win with more good options to buy.

[jediali]

thnx.that makes sense. bluetech diesels apparently reduce NOX levels so they fit the law in america better according to autocar.

[Quiggs]

but if i think i dont like big pushrod V8s cos theyre low tech, then drive one to find that its actually ok, that would change my mind!
Unfortunately our options to even test drive are few and far between. For 06, the only diesels in the US were VW's TDIs, and the Big 3's heavy duty trucks.

For 07, TDIs are gone because they didn't meet EPA standards. Only the massive trucks are left. And while they get relatively good mileage, it's still not anything to write home about.

And to top all of this off, diesel costs more than premium (93 octane) gasoline. By a good $.30/gallon. Which is enough to scare people off. Even though it would be cheaper in the long run.

These are the same people who think a $400/month car payment while using half the amount of fuel, over a car that gets half the mileage but is paid off, is a good decision.

[Zytek_Fan]

Unfortunately our options to even test drive are few and far between. For 06, the only diesels in the US were VW's TDIs, and the Big 3's heavy duty trucks.

For 07, TDIs are gone because they didn't meet EPA standards. Only the massive trucks are left. And while they get relatively good mileage, it's still not anything to write home about.


Which is bullshit because how does the TDI not meet EPA standards?
Just because the Touareg TDI doesn't get good MPG doesn't mean that all TDIs are shit. Why doesn't the EPA start outlawing the heavy duty trucks? The heavy duties do even worse MPG and pollute more, a lot more than a TDI does.

The US sucks when it comes to diesel technology :(

[Zytek_Fan]

At least the success of the R10 is beginning to change peoples' minds about diesel :D

[Quiggs]

Which is bullshit because how does the TDI not meet EPA standards?
Just because the Touareg TDI doesn't get good MPG doesn't mean that all TDIs are shit. Why doesn't the EPA start outlawing the heavy duty trucks? The heavy duties do even worse MPG and pollute more, a lot more than a TDI does.

The US sucks when it comes to diesel technology :(
Because Ford alone sells 1,000,000 F series a year. Most of which are heavy duty fleet sales to contractors, farmers, and people in industries or even personal use who actually need a truck that can pull 10,000+ pounds, and carry a ton of gravel/sheet rock/dirt/whatever in the bed.

The reason the TDI's are gone for this year was because their NOx emissions were too high for the new standards the EPA rolled out. They would have been fine if the ULSD hadn't been delayed. But it did. The only reason the trucks are allowed this year is because anything over 7,000 pounds is Federally exempt.

[my porsche]

Why can't they make any good looking cars that get good MPG?

[IBrake4Rainbows]

Because people who Buy High MPG cars wish to share it with the world that there doing a good deed and that everyone else should follow them.

Greenies, to sum up.

Because of these people's desire to show off their awesome earth-saving skills, most enviro-friendly cars look like misshapen.....crap, essentially.

This is why i like cars like the Civic Hybrid and the Escape Hybrid- there "normal" to the point of being boring, so the only sign of their enviro-cred is a small badge or some different trim. because they don't shout, almost hiding their cred, they get more.

Prius < Model T.

[Coventrysucks]

Not only does this Polo emit less pollution than a Prius whilst being driven, but the amount of pollution saved by not designing, developing and manufacturing of what is essentially double the amount of drive train and associated systems will be immense.

The batteries & etc of the Prius will also create even more pollution during their disposal.

Hybrid technology is one of the greatest cons of the decade.


Why can't they make any good looking cars that get good MPG?

Err, they do, unless your definition of "good" is strictly above 60mpg or something.

Most diesels these days should be capable of 50mpg+ at a motorway cruise.

(That's only 40 miles from what you Americans laughably call a "gallon".)

[Egg Nog]

Just for the record, the figure quoted above is the same as just over 60 US miles per gallon. Still amazing.

Americans tend not to be the best with units, so I thought I'd make that clear. ;)

[johnnyperl]

I doubt it will come here though Quiggs. We don't like diesels for some reason.
we may not get this model, but we're getting plenty of diesels in late '07 as '08 models.

VW, BMW, Mercedes/Chrysler/Jeep/Dodge and Audi will all start importing diesels thanks to Blutec. Honda will also be close behind. As of a few weeks ago we now have low sulfur diesel so these cars are able to pass particulate and NOX (thanks to Bluetec) emissions. Demand is becoming huge for these cars.

The '06 Jetta TDI were selling for as much as $28,000+.

[Quiggs]

we may not get this model, but we're getting plenty of diesels in late '07 as '08 models.

VW, BMW, Mercedes/Chrysler/Jeep/Dodge and Audi will all start importing diesels thanks to Blutec. Honda will also be close behind. As of a few weeks ago we now have low sulfur diesel so these cars are able to pass particulate and NOX (thanks to Bluetec) emissions. Demand is becoming huge for these cars.

The '06 Jetta TDI were selling for as much as $28,000+.
On top of that, used TDI's pull a premium in California since they can't be bought new there. It's not uncommon to profit from selling a TDI with just over 7500 miles.

[drakkie]

its a low drag one. aside: Did you know the citroen 2CV has a couple of interchangable grills depending on how cold it is, for engine cooling purposes!

Don't you just love the leather grille covers :D Not so good looking,but very "old-school" :rolleyes:

[IBrake4Rainbows]

It's a catch 22 for the US - you can't get a good diesel car without good diesel fuel, but you won't get good diesel fuel until someone gets a good diesel car out onto the market........

i'm surprised it hasn't caught on earlier - that way more gas guzzlers can be sold as commercial vehicles coz they run on diesel.....

[kingofthering]

Which is bullshit because how does the TDI not meet EPA standards?
Just because the Touareg TDI doesn't get good MPG doesn't mean that all TDIs are shit. Why doesn't the EPA start outlawing the heavy duty trucks? The heavy duties do even worse MPG and pollute more, a lot more than a TDI does.

The US sucks when it comes to diesel technology :(
It's politically correct to whomp on diesels that emit "evil" CO2 greenhouse gasses. Plus Al Gore says so, so in the near future, we may need to mass murder people to reduce our greenhouse gasses. Why? We emit CO2.

[Ferrer]

It's politically correct to whomp on diesels that emit "evil" CO2 greenhouse gasses. Plus Al Gore says so, so in the near future, we may need to mass murder people to reduce our greenhouse gasses. Why? We emit CO2.
Diesel powered cars emit less CO2 gases than equivalent petrol engined cars.

[kingofthering]

Try telling that to the Socialist government of California.

[henk4]

Try telling that to the Socialist government of California.

Led by Commy Arnold?

[Ferrer]

Try telling that to the Socialist government of California.
Of course it's easy to blame something for all evil in the world, politicians do it all the time, and it really doesn't matter the country you live in, it's the same all over the world. Here they do it with speed, they think that it is the cause of all the car accidents and that people that do over 140km/h in motorway (speed limit here is 120km/h) are equivalent to murderers.

But the fact remain that while the BMW 335i emits 235gr/km of CO2 the BMW 335d emits "only" 200gr/km of CO2. As has been said where diesels are worse than than petrols is in NOx emissions, but manufacturers are working hard on that with technology like Bluetec. Of course they are also working on petrol engines, which in the future should perhaps level things out.

[jediali]

do you think the oil companies have anything to do with what sells, diesel, petrol?

[Ferrer]

do you think the oil companies have anything to do with what sells, diesel, petrol?
As long as we use oil-based combustibles I don't think they care much...

[ruim20]

A bit off topic, but why don't car companies develop Diesel/electric Hibrid engines instead of the petrol/electric Hibrids?

[Ferrer]

A bit off topic, but why don't they do Diesel/electric hibrids? instead of Petrol/electric?
I suppose it's easier to mate a petrol engine to electric batteries, altough IIRC there were a pair of hybrid concepts from PSA (C4 and 307) mated to their 1.6-litre diesel engine, and also an Astra from GM, too a diesel hybrid car. I suppose it's just a matter of time.

Another reason is that in Japan and USA they mainly favour petrol engines, and I suppose that these two have been (and still are) the biggest markets for the Japanese hybrid cars. Therefore they develop them with petrol engines.

[LandQuail]

We don't like diesels because we're ****ing retarded.

We're pretty stupid when it comes to automobiles, which sucks, because we used to be allright at it. Way on back in the day, (that ephemeral primordial stew that existed pre Snoop Dogg and Super Nintendo - Largely unknown, I fear, to most under-30 Americans) Hollywood moviestars of the 20's and 30's needed not to look overseas to find themselves an exclusive (sweet-ass), handcrafted (bitchin'), excessively expensive (pimped from da' factory) car (whip). We had Dusenberg, Auburn, Cadillac, Lincoln; Dozens of custom coachbuilders, and a lock on what was, at the time, high-tech luxury.

World War II ****ed us up, but it did everybody else too. When we finally got it together, Harley Earl, GM's design guru, slathered everything with chrome, two-tone paint schemes, and 300 pounds of ornamental addenda. In the 50's, America proved that with a big enough V-8, we could accellerate anything, however unlikely, to highway speeds.

Then came the muscle cars, which need no justification, or even explanation, whatsoever.

And then, swooping in like the black hand of suckiness to snatch whatever good was to be found on four wheels and drag it away like something out of the last ten minutes of the movie Ghost, came the 70's.

On behalf of the United States of America, I deeply appologize to everyone on this forum for American cars and music produced during the 70's. The world, evil as it is, didn't deserve that.

Then the 80's. A new low, but with signs we were learning something about building cars more like the Japanese. We're still trying, and we'll get there someday - maybe.

However, in the 90's we beat the world to the punch with the all-electric GM EV-1. It didn't sell worth a **** to the coveted "people who want to go more than 20 miles in a day" market segment, and the car's styling was famously describes as looking "like a snake trapped under a rock," but we had it first.

One of these days we'll get it right. We're going back to the moon, you know.

[Matra et Alpine]

in the 90's we beat the world to the punch with the all-electric GM EV-1. It didn't sell worth a **** ...........but we had it first.
ahem :)

Robert Anderson of Scotland 160 years BEFORE that I'm afraid and lots of others after.
The GM came a close second ( HUNDRED and second :) )

http://inventors.about.com/library/weekly/aacarselectrica.htm
Check out the NY taxis

[jediali]

Then came the muscle cars, which need no justification, or even explanation, whatsoever.
http://www.musclecarmuseum.com/images/0705/road_runner-01.jpg
"you dont attatch a wing this size unless your confident about yourself" JC, our accurate journalist. Dont apologise too much. The japanes and other eastern succesful manufacturers can never claim to have made such soulful cars. I love the sound of the mustang in "gone in 60 seconds", thats a unique detroit soundtrack!

[johnnyperl]

A bit off topic, but why don't car companies develop Diesel/electric Hibrid engines instead of the petrol/electric Hibrids?
they do, but it is significantly more expensive because diesels cost more and hybrids cost more than gas engines.

because of this, toyota has said they have no interest in diesel hybrids.
But Mercedes does and has stated they plan on releasing a "BlueTec Hybrid" in 2008 STORY (http://www.autoblog.com/2005/09/19/mercedes-benz-has-a-pair-of-s-class-hybrids/)


The GM came a close second ( HUNDRED and second :) )
There were some in between too, I wouldnt call GM cecond.

Since we're getting patriotic, the Swiss TWIKE I beat GM by 10 years. Its an EV but I'll concede thats it doesnt compete with the EV1.

[henk4]

do you think the oil companies have anything to do with what sells, diesel, petrol?

The answer is yes, as the USA refinery lay-outs are much more geared to production of gasoline. The middle distillate slant from the barrel has always been rather limited, certainly compared to european refineries. I would not be surprised if this would also explain the difference in prices between gasoline and diesel, as diesel may also have to be directly imported if demand increases. Furthermore, it is not unlikely that oil companies pass on the cost of desulphurisation directly to the consumer. So oil companies like the continuation of the selling of gasoline, as they can produce that in the cheapest way.

[jediali]

The answer is yes, as the USA refinery lay-outs are much more geared to production of gasoline. The middle distillate slant from the barrel has always been rather limited, certainly compared to european refineries. I would not be surprised if this would also explain the difference in prices between gasoline and diesel, as diesel may also have to be directly imported if demand increases. Furthermore, it is not unlikely that oil companies pass on the cost of desulphurisation directly to the consumer. So oil companies like the continuation of the selling of gasoline, as they can produce that in the cheapest way.

i am no suspicion-theory person but i think the oil companies have their agendas. They could change buy equipmen easily, its just that they want to secure profitable markets, even if that involves environmental and technical ignorance

[h00t_h00t]

Ah, oil company conspiracys are great. Mostly because there is some truth to storys about them buying up revolutionary technology and sitting on it.

[kingofthering]

I highly doubt that they would be against this. Why wouldn't they want to make a buck?

[henk4]

i am no suspicion-theory person but i think the oil companies have their agendas. They could change buy equipmen easily, its just that they want to secure profitable markets, even if that involves environmental and technical ignorance

That is underestimating the flexibility of refineries. Modern refineries tend to reduce the residual product of oil refining to the absolute limit. These heavy ends are used for firing stationnary boilers or power stations, and also feed large marine diesel, where the fuel has to be pre-heated as under normal circumstances it is solid. A typical primary refinery slant (depending of course on the API of the crude oil) is 30-30-40, (light-middle-heavy distillates). In order to reduce the production of heavy ends, several cracking techniques are used, a bit too much to describe here in detail but you may want to look at issues of the Oil and Gas Journal that deal with global refining capacity.

You will note that the USA has a preponderance of cat-cracking plants, geared at producing lighter ends, while european refineries have more thermo and visco crackers, with diesel/gasoil outputs. There are very flexible cracking plants like hydrocrackers, where you can adapt the output according to requirements (to a certain level) but they costs a considerable amount (blns of dollars and take some time to produce.
A very modern refinery, including the secondary refining activities can reach a slant of 45-50-5 in terms of split between the various distillates, whereby the division between light and middle distillates can vary.

[jediali]

That is underestimating the flexibility of refineries. Modern refineries tend to reduce the residual product of oil refining to the absolute limit. These heavy ends are used for firing stationnary boilers or power stations, and also feed large marine diesel, where the fuel has to be pre-heated as under normal circumstances it is solid. A typical primary refinery slant (depending of course on the API of the crude oil) is 30-30-40, (light-middle-heavy distillates). In order to reduce the production of heavy ends, several cracking techniques are used, a bit too much to describe here in detail but you may want to look at issues of the Oil and Gas Journal that deal with global refining capacity.

You will note that the USA has a preponderance of cat-cracking plants, geared at producing lighter ends, while european refineries have more thermo and visco crackers, with diesel/gasoil outputs. There are very flexible cracking plants like hydrocrackers, where you can adapt the output according to requirements (to a certain level) but they costs a considerable amount (blns of dollars and take some time to produce.
A very modern refinery, including the secondary refining activities can reach a slant of 45-50-5 in terms of split between the various distillates, whereby the division between light and middle distillates can vary.

thats shed some light on it, thnx. So the oil companies can save money buy keeping existing refieries and produce petrol or invest in a new diesel marketplace in the US. I think they will keep with the former.

[henk4]

thats shed some light on it, thnx. So the oil companies can save money buy keeping existing refieries and produce petrol or invest in a new diesel marketplace in the US. I think they will keep with the former.

they first have to further invest in desulphurisation plants...

[ruim20]

they do

Who does?

And if the whole ideia is to use less fuel, and make a better car for the envirment, isn't diesel the logical solution? Or am i just being optimistic and not reminding that the only interest car companys have on hibrids, is to improve their public image and brand power...:rolleyes:

[jediali]

Who does?

And if the whole ideia is to use less fuel, and make a better car for the envirment, isn't diesel the logical solution? Or am i just being optimistic and not reminding that the only interest car companys have on hibrids, is to improve their public image and brand power...:rolleyes:
thats the point, it sells better if it has a good image so car companies satisfy this with less regard to the environment than we think.

[Ferrer]

Who does?

And if the whole ideia is to use less fuel, and make a better car for the envirment, isn't diesel the logical solution? Or am i just being optimistic and not reminding that the only interest car companys have on hibrids, is to improve their public image and brand power...:rolleyes:
Well it doesn't matter the reason why they are built as long as car companies work in that direction, be it hybrids, more efficient piston engines, whatever. Some car companies might do it at first to improve their image, but if people buys them other will be attracted to the market and we will get better cars.

[Gtek-i]

diesel is more expensive here in Canada anyway...so...I don't get it...I'd rather get a Honda Accord Hybrid with 253hp and VTEC or i-VTEC.