Could the Falcon be reaching US shores?

[Prius]

Well, I have generally been hearing that as one of the canidates for replacing the extremely-aged Crown Victoria is that they will bring in the Falcon from Australia, when they redesign it in a couple of years, and that ford Australia is developing a version to fit the US market. I also know that they are expirmenting with them in the US, as I pointed out a little while ago that I saw a TS50 cruising around Dearborn, probably being tested by some Ford guys. I am just wondering if there is a good chance of this happening. I am just wondering, because I have liked the australian Falcon for quite some time, and I thought that it would be kinda cool to be able to buy one in US shores. Espically since the Austrailians seem to have the same formula as americans when it comes to cars: Big, rear wheel drive, with a ton of horsepower.

[2ndclasscitizen]

Not for a couple of years. The current model doesn't support LHD. And it must've been a while ago when you saw that TS50, those must be getting on 6 or 7 years since they got discontinued.

[carsnut]

The TS50 was once sold in the US?

[Prius]

No. It was probably a grey import, most likely by some Ford guys. As I said, maybe they were using it to test the waters for the US market.

[TVR IS KING]

Maybe some guys wanted a TS50, so they imported one. I mean that things based on the AU. Why on Earth would they test the AU over there? Everyone hated it, and from what I've heard there were constant mechanical problems.
Plus, yeah, it's very very old.

[Prius]

I heard about quality issues, like a part of the dash was known for falluing in the footwell.

But, I am not talking about the TS50, I am talking about the Falcon, and from I heard, there are good chances of it reaching US shores when it gets its next redesign. I even heard that Ford Australia is even engineering it to accept left and right hand drive.

[johnnynumfiv]

You need to go away Keanu.

[fpv_gtho]

The next Falcon, codenamed Orion at this stage, is due on sale HERE around March 2008. Ford Australia has recieved funding to expand development to include LHD, but the late inclusion into the development cycle means it probably wont be until 2010 that LHD models are actually produced.

Falcon, or Falcon's platform "MAY" see US shores around then, but it depends on how Ford keeps their DEW98 and Panther platforms going. Currently there are alot of rumours of the D2C platform under the Mustang being stretched to accomodate a medium-large sized RWD sedan, which considering D2C was dumbed down from DEW98, doesnt leave much room for Falcon as a budget large RWD platform.

Not to mention also, Ford have the Five Hundred, Fusion and Crown Victoria on sale as passenger sedans. Granted, neither the Five Hundred or Fusion are RWD, but it doesnt leave much room for too many more products.

[adrenaline]

A Crown Vic replacement wouldn't be a Falcon, it would be a variation of the currently non existent Orion Fairlane. Even if they did manage to get the Falcon over to the US as a falcon (not as just a platform), Ford would have problems with supply, as the capacity of the Broadmeadows Ford plant won't satisfy demand. Unless Ford manufacture them in the US, which I highly doubt. Instead of importing the Falcon, I'd say Ford might eventually make use of the platform. The only chance I see the Falcon having for US export is being badged as a low volume Mercury.

[carsnut]

Maybe some guys wanted a TS50, so they imported one. I mean that things based on the AU. Why on Earth would they test the AU over there? Everyone hated it, and from what I've heard there were constant mechanical problems.
Plus, yeah, it's very very old.

I saw a Alfa Romeo Brera (the new one, black) at Las Vegas:D, perhaps that person imported it? Sry i couldn't get pics, it was all too sudden if you get what I mean

[fpv_gtho]

A Crown Vic replacement wouldn't be a Falcon, it would be a variation of the currently non existent Orion Fairlane. Even if they did manage to get the Falcon over to the US as a falcon (not as just a platform), Ford would have problems with supply, as the capacity of the Broadmeadows Ford plant won't satisfy demand. Unless Ford manufacture them in the US, which I highly doubt. Instead of importing the Falcon, I'd say Ford might eventually make use of the platform. The only chance I see the Falcon having for US export is being badged as a low volume Mercury.

Supply isnt that stretched really, Ford just dont have enough reason to add a 2nd shift of production. Secure 18K units in America, and maybe the same elsewhere in Europe/Asia, then a 2nd shift would economically make sense.

[SlickHolden]

Falcon into the U.S bout ****en time!

[TVR IS KING]

Falcon into the U.S bout ****en time!
QFT. Give them a taste of a real passenger car.
Only a taste mind you. For the whole shebbang they would need the VE.

[kingofthering]

I heard that Commodores are fast, so if GM decides to import it and it takes off, Ford might bring a Falcon. But this is the American auto industry, they couldn't run a garbage can if their lives depended on it.

[SlickHolden]

Both are fast cars, But safe handle pretty tuff and great value. The U.S couldn't ask for anymore:).

[digitalcraft]

Isn't this new Ford Interceptor the consideration for the crown victoria replacement?

[Rockefella]

QFT. Give them a taste of a real passenger car.
Only a taste mind you. For the whole shebbang they would need the VE.
We're supposed to get that uber Commodore, the SS-V I believe it was? If the magazine I read was right, it'd be here in 2008 as the next Pontiac GrandPrix GXP.

[Prius]

The next Falcon, codenamed Orion at this stage, is due on sale HERE around March 2008. Ford Australia has recieved funding to expand development to include LHD, but the late inclusion into the development cycle means it probably wont be until 2010 that LHD models are actually produced.

Falcon, or Falcon's platform "MAY" see US shores around then, but it depends on how Ford keeps their DEW98 and Panther platforms going. Currently there are alot of rumours of the D2C platform under the Mustang being stretched to accomodate a medium-large sized RWD sedan, which considering D2C was dumbed down from DEW98, doesnt leave much room for Falcon as a budget large RWD platform.

Not to mention also, Ford have the Five Hundred, Fusion and Crown Victoria on sale as passenger sedans. Granted, neither the Five Hundred or Fusion are RWD, but it doesnt leave much room for too many more products.

Well, that is just the thing. The Crown Victoria is extremely dated, and sales are really slowing down. The only place it is popular is as a fleet car, and since introduction, Five Hundred sales were lukewarm at best, selling just over 100,000 units its first year, way less than Ford expected, despite the fact that it is getting very good reviews. So if the Falcon comes over, it is either bumping out the Crown Victoria or the Five Hundred.

[MRR]

QFT. Give them a taste of a real passenger car.
Only a taste mind you. For the whole shebbang they would need the VE.

Funny how the American car company's best cars are not even sold in the US (Euro focus, Falcon, Commodore, etc)

[MRR]

Well, that is just the thing. The Crown Victoria is extremely dated, and sales are really slowing down. The only place it is popular is as a fleet car, and since introduction, Five Hundred sales were lukewarm at best, selling just over 100,000 units its first year, way less than Ford expected, despite the fact that it is getting very good reviews. So if the Falcon comes over, it is either bumping out the Crown Victoria or the Five Hundred.

I would bet the Crown Vic since ford is actually selling the Five Hundred to people other then the police and taxi drivers.

[TVR IS KING]

Funny how the American car company's best cars are not even sold in the US (Euro focus, Falcon, Commodore, etc)
I believe Ford Australia is a completely different company to Ford America, though in the same financial group. Ford Aus design their own cars, just like Holden design their own cars. They have financial backing from GM, and styling input for the world market perhaps, but they are a seperate company.
The Falcon and Commodore are Australian cars.

If you're getting the SS-V, you're mighty lucky. Play 'spot-the-difference' between a Caddy 'V' badge and an SS-V badge. :)

[SlickHolden]

Isn't this new Ford Interceptor the consideration for the crown victoria replacement?
If you like low technology.

We're supposed to get that uber Commodore, the SS-V I believe it was? If the magazine I read was right, it'd be here in 2008 as the next Pontiac GrandPrix GXP.
And it will be better in 08.. Most of the updates will be done by then and it should be perfect. haven't herd a single moan about the SS-V.
Only thing is why the **** does GM take so long too move there arse's, They have concepts 4-5 years away from production at times.

[fpv_gtho]

I believe Ford Australia is a completely different company to Ford America, though in the same financial group. Ford Aus design their own cars, just like Holden design their own cars. They have financial backing from GM, and styling input for the world market perhaps, but they are a seperate company.
The Falcon and Commodore are Australian cars.

Theyre the same company, just due to our geographic isolation, we dont have to ask America every time we put pen to paper.

[fpv_gtho]

Well, that is just the thing. The Crown Victoria is extremely dated, and sales are really slowing down. The only place it is popular is as a fleet car, and since introduction, Five Hundred sales were lukewarm at best, selling just over 100,000 units its first year, way less than Ford expected, despite the fact that it is getting very good reviews. So if the Falcon comes over, it is either bumping out the Crown Victoria or the Five Hundred.

Ford's already promised the St Catherines plant there'll be an update to the CV in a few years. Even if Ford are only selling to fleets, thats still solid numbers that theyre making alot of profit on.

The Five Hundred too will be getting styling revisions soon, so probably not really under threat of replacement.

[adrenaline]

Supply isnt that stretched really, Ford just dont have enough reason to add a 2nd shift of production. Secure 18K units in America, and maybe the same elsewhere in Europe/Asia, then a 2nd shift would economically make sense.

18K units in the US wouldn't last more than one or two months. And then look at how many dealers there are in the US - they are all going to want cars :) Alot of people would get annoyed at Ford for the supply problem - which is why I say bring it as a Mercury.


We're supposed to get that uber Commodore, the SS-V I believe it was? If the magazine I read was right, it'd be here in 2008 as the next Pontiac GrandPrix GXP.

This was taken last month:

http://cmsimg.detnews.com/apps/pbcsi.dll/bilde?Site=C3&Date=20061227&Category=AUTO03&ArtNo=612270322&Ref=H3&Profile=1149Q=100&MaxW=250

[fpv_gtho]

Well 18K is the limit for imports into America set by the UAW

[adrenaline]

Well 18K is the limit for imports into America set by the UAW

So if Ford are serious about having a Falcon variation over there, they will have to manufacture a version locally. Otherwise, they will have to settle with low volume sports models, or like I said earlier, put a Mercury Badge on it.

So to sum up, no Falcon in the US until atleast 2010. If it does make it, it won't be in volume.

But for the moment it just doesn't fit Ford of America's product line, or atleast there isn't a hole for it to jump into. If they imported it, it would only cannibalize sales of the 500/ Crown Vic. The only other way I can think of importing it would be to copy Holden and send expensive performance variants.

[fpv_gtho]

Well that latter option would be the most likely. Sending 18K XR8's and GT's would require FPV's output to increase tenfold, but would bring drastically more profit than sending 18K E-Gas XT's. Infact, Ford Oz would probably be losing money in sending 18K Egas XT's.

[Rockefella]

Well 18K is the limit for imports into America set by the UAW
Which is why MotorTrend said it'd come over as the Pontiac GrandPrix GXP, and not the new Chevy Malibu or something. a GrandPrix GXP will only sell about 15k units max, if GM's lucky. :)

[fpv_gtho]

The Monaro never reached 18K in the US either, which had many people thinking they shouldve also brought over the Commodore ute as a new El Camino.

[Rockefella]

The Monaro never reached 18K in the US either, which had many people thinking they shouldve also brought over the Commodore ute as a new El Camino.
I think the problem w/ the Monaro over here may have been the pricetag. Sure, it's an awesome car for the $30k'ish pricetag, but people looking to spend that kind of money are more inclined to buy a 3-series, A4, or C-class.

[fpv_gtho]

They got screwed around a bit with the price with how the US dollar dropped between Lutz's first impressions, and the car hitting the US as a GTO. I guess GM were confident that, along with the stigma of not being a real GTO, the pricetag wouldnt stop them selling all 18K per year.

[Prius]

Ford's already promised the St Catherines plant there'll be an update to the CV in a few years. Even if Ford are only selling to fleets, thats still solid numbers that theyre making alot of profit on.

The Five Hundred too will be getting styling revisions soon, so probably not really under threat of replacement.

Well, yeah, they are still going to make fleet models for well into the future, but the civilian models have been under the threat of extinction for quite some time. Because again, it is extremely dated, especially compared to the new Chrysler 300C, and the Five Hundred in Ford's own line. I think how Ford is gonna do it is, that they are gonna discontinue the civilian Crown Vic, and make it fleet only, and keep the Grand Marquis as teh civilian model, since the Grand Marquis is more popular among the civilian market, and replace the civilian Crown Vic with a new large car, like the Falcon, a stretched Five Hundred, or a new model.

[nota]

The Monaro never reached 18K in the US either, which had many people thinking they shouldve also brought over the Commodore ute as a new El Camino.
FPV, I absolutely agree the Commodore ute should have been our most 'natural' export to this market, but alas this was never possible due to a little known US-protectionism obscurity known as the Chicken Tax. Perhaps you haven't heard of it? :)


The Chicken Tax was instituted back in 1963, and was aimed at European (read VW) truckmakers. The long and the short of it is that there was a trade war going back then between the USA and Europe. The Europeans tripled the tax of chickens being imported into Europe, and the US retaliated by putting a 25% tax on any truck imported into the USA. That's how it came about, and we've lived with it ever since.

So now there is an effort afoot by the Bush administration for a free-trade agreement with Thailand that would substantially reduce this tariff, if not eliminate it. The UAW and Detroit automakers are fighting this tooth-and-nail not to let this happen. They fear that if the Chicken Tax is reduced or repealed, the US will be flooded with cheap pickups made in Thailand, and that their "truck cash cow" will disappear.

My feeling is that I would like to see a lot more diversity in the types of trucks offered for sale here, like small compact diesel trucks, and many of the other types of trucks we see sold in other markets, but can't be sold here at a profit, because of the 25% tariff. Eliminating the Chicken tax would allow that to happen. Imported cars have a 2.5% tax.

(^quoted from this)
http://blogs.edmunds.com/.ee8f829

[henk4]

FPV, I absolutely agree the Commodore ute should have been our most 'natural' export to this market, but alas this was never possible due to a little known US-protectionism obscurity known as the Chicken Tax. Perhaps you haven't heard of it? :)


where the Americans feeding chicken with genetically manipulated fodder way down in 1963?

[Cyco]

It was revealed today that the SS and sportier versions of the VE will be heading to the US as Pontiacs

[adrenaline]

Well 18K is the limit for imports into America set by the UAW

Lutz just said he intends to import 50k SS Commodores :eek:

[fpv_gtho]

Somethings not adding up with that then, perhaps he's going to do a deal with the UAW to allow more units coming in, but as CKD.

[STREETFIRE]

This was taken last month:

http://cmsimg.detnews.com/apps/pbcsi.dll/bilde?Site=C3&Date=20061227&Category=AUTO03&ArtNo=612270322&Ref=H3&Profile=1149Q=100&MaxW=250
I'm in on the news. I have another pic of that car, from the rear angle. What I can tell you is that it's similar, but not VE. Tail-lights are different, and so are the side guards, as well as the interior, which looks similar to the Commodore Omega/Berlina's design, but not the same. People who read Wheels Magazine know already ;) The picture was snapped in the far north of Australia. It's likely to be badged G8.

[2ndclasscitizen]

That just looks like one of the VE test mules, so differences in details such as lights and interior looking close, but not quite like the Omega/Berlina are easily explained as not quite being the production version, or even if it's a US-version, the lights would be a different version to meet any US production regs the normal Aus. versions don't meet and a different interior spec to match the intended pricing and specs of the US version.

[SlickHolden]

50,000 units sounds like alot too send.

[Cyco]

The story in today's Sydney Morning Herald gave the number of 30,000

[SlickHolden]

Thats more the mark, They let go the workers i was thinking who would build these extra cars.

[STREETFIRE]

That just looks like one of the VE test mules, so differences in details such as lights and interior looking close, but not quite like the Omega/Berlina are easily explained as not quite being the production version, or even if it's a US-version, the lights would be a different version to meet any US production regs the normal Aus. versions don't meet and a different interior spec to match the intended pricing and specs of the US version.

I have another picture of the rear end of the proto, and I scanned it in to the computer, but it's really slow and it froze while I was scaling it for posting on UCP.com. The tail-lights resemble the WM Statesman/Caprice (in shape) and the bumper and boot lid are different. So are the headlights (you need train-spotting abilities to pick out the different headlight units) and the side guard/wheelarch design.

[adrenaline]

http://www.adam.com.au/mdon2035/2smallkr4.jpg

[nota]

What model is the grey sedan on the right? :confused:

[adrenaline]

Well, it has the larger lights, so it's definately not a sports model. It doesn't have clear plastics so it's not a Calais/ Calais V. That leaves Omega or Berlina.

[SlickHolden]

Taillights look like the old VY Calais ones.

[nota]

I'm no VE expert but those lights look tall & narrow (similar to Pontiac) and almost Statesman .. although is it a Stato?

[SlickHolden]

Remember the spy pics we first seen? They look the same as them, It's all for show i'd say. But you might be right with that 3rd window at the c pillar.

[STREETFIRE]

Well, it has the larger lights, so it's definately not a sports model. It doesn't have clear plastics so it's not a Calais/ Calais V. That leaves Omega or Berlina.
The car on the far left is an SV6. The one on the right is a Berlina (taillight design).