View Full Version : Toyota Camery
MRDETROITMETAL
01-15-2007, 07:23 PM
Well, if Toyo was as they have Dale Jarret spouting off about in NASCAR, truely an American Auto Company then this or someting more along these lines would be what a Toyo should look like IMO :
fisetdavid26
01-15-2007, 07:27 PM
Toyota would not misspell Camry on their own car.
cmcpokey
01-15-2007, 07:29 PM
umm, better than the other one you posted tongiht, but still lacking compared to your other ecent postings... that and the design of the front end is even worse than the original camry.. which is pretty bad
TVRs4eva
01-15-2007, 07:37 PM
Toyota would not misspell Camry on their own car.
umm, better than the other one you posted tongiht, but still lacking compared to your other ecent postings... that and the design of the front end is even worse than the original camry.. which is pretty bad
man, MRDETROIT just gets no love on this website, huh? :confused:
cmcpokey
01-15-2007, 07:38 PM
when he does a good one, he gets praise... we dont reward quantity over quality
fisetdavid26
01-15-2007, 07:39 PM
man, MRDETROIT just gets no love on this website, huh? :confused:
I actually like him a lot. I'm just saying when you chop a car you should at least be able to spell it correctly, especially if you are to write the name on the car.
SupraMan22
01-15-2007, 07:45 PM
Yeah thats very true. Not too bad, spelling is horrible. Nothing new though. :p Not a bad chop other than that.
MRDETROITMETAL
01-15-2007, 07:48 PM
I failed spelling class in grade school, never got my free pen and was always the first to sit down in a spelling bee.
LMAO.
...in spite of that....somehow I can draw !!!????
THX fer the commentary.
zeppelin
01-15-2007, 08:19 PM
I have no problems with him, I get a great kick out of the shitstorms that ensue after his every post.
Only thing that gets me is the spelling/grammar errors, I don't tolerate it for people whose first language is English.
Drift Illusion
01-15-2007, 09:05 PM
Ummm... No comment.
Drift Illusion
01-15-2007, 09:06 PM
I know there was no purpose to that... or this...
MRDETROITMETAL
01-15-2007, 10:32 PM
Ah So...I krannot spelk Japanorese and WTF is a CANNERY anyuway in ENGRISH ???...hmmmm.
...so just like the Camry (???) just looks so so wrong, is it even a NAME of something in another dilect other than AMERCIA - CAN !!!!
I KNOW what an IMPALA is or a CHARGER or a FUSION but.....huh ?
First thing Toyopet needs to do is LEARN how to build cars that AMERICANS can spell because they are REAL WORDS in the ENGLISH language...Cam-Whatever-y is NOT one of those words, sorry dudes.
NEVERMIND....I am changing it to a DODGE right now !!!
BIGWORM_25
01-15-2007, 11:09 PM
[QUOTE=MRDETROITMETAL]Ah So...I krannot spelk Japanorese and WTF is a CANNERY anyuway in ENGRISH ???...hmmmm.
...so just like the Camry (???) just looks so so wrong, is it even a NAME of something in another dilect other than AMERCIA - CAN !!!!
I KNOW what an IMPALA is or a CHARGER or a FUSION but.....huh ?
First thing Toyopet needs to do is LEARN how to build cars that AMERICANS can spell because they are REAL WORDS in the ENGLISH language...Cam-Whatever-y is NOT one of those words, sorry dudes.
Camry is a phonetic transcription of the Japanese word for Crown...BUT being that you cant spell in English Im sure you wouldnt know such things...and the day that a domestic branded car is the highest selling car in America (like an Accord or Camry) THEN you can poke fun at them.Until then just keep on doing your "art"...lol...and we will keep laughing.
:Exige:
01-16-2007, 12:59 PM
and the day that a domestic branded car is the highest selling car in America (like an Accord or Camry) THEN you can poke fun at them.Until then just keep on doing your "art"...lol...and we will keep laughing.
Not long now ... The Camry was the 3rd best selling car in the US in 2006.
SPHFerrari
01-16-2007, 01:18 PM
and the day that a domestic branded car is the highest selling car in America (like an Accord or Camry) THEN you can poke fun at them.Until then just keep on doing your "art"...lol...and we will keep laughing.
well said. toyota doesnt so much need to LEARN how to sell cars, rather they should TEACH some american companies how to do it.
jediali
01-16-2007, 01:21 PM
Ummm... No comment.
ill go with that too
coolieman1220
01-16-2007, 02:31 PM
lmao i saw on in a parking lot taking up 2 spaces wit like 20 inch rims. disgusting!
zeppelin
01-16-2007, 04:10 PM
Camry is a proper name, therefore it becomes a word with a proper spelling that should be used; whether or not you like it.
MRDETROITMETAL
01-16-2007, 04:49 PM
Not long now ... The Camry was the 3rd best selling car in the US in 2006.
"Camry is a phonetic transcription of the Japanese word for Crown...BUT being that you cant spell in English Im sure you wouldnt know such things...and the day that a domestic branded car is the highest selling car in America (like an Accord or Camry) THEN you can poke fun at them."
Exige ; THANK YOU. THANK YOU VERY MUCH !;)
btw the #1 selling car in America was the CHEVY IMPALA !!!!
A phonetic transcrption is NOT a WORD. !!!!.....even in Japanese !!!
LMAO !!!!
On a more serious note, personally I would rather see something along these lines,
But then it would not be possible for Toyo to do this I dont think (not yet anyway).
However IF they ever really get down to making an American Car, there will be alot
more peeps on the street selling crack to feed the family !...so, TG for small favors.
BIGWORM_25
01-16-2007, 10:51 PM
Toyota and all the other foreign car makers will NEVER learn to build an "American car".Why should everyone have to ride in cars that have cheap interiors poor gas mileage and no resale values?As for the Impala being the #1 selling car...lol...big friggin deal they are practically giving them away with all the rebates and incentives they HAVE to give to move them.The Japanese brands dont have to do that...people actually want to buy them.
Mr. Jinx
01-17-2007, 12:04 AM
^ Yes, you're clearly an unbiased view.
MRDETROITMETAL
01-17-2007, 03:18 AM
"Impala being the #1 selling car...lol...big friggin deal"
YES IT IS> Obviously because that same "peeps wanna buy 'em pitch" comment happens everytime I remind someone of that fact. I ain't Buyin No Japanese Car...ever. Had 2 toyopets & they both blew up within 25,000 miles !!!...now thats a POS !!
MY Chevys...are still running with over 250,000 miles !!!
STREETFIRE
01-17-2007, 03:25 AM
MDM, thanks for improving the Camry's poor styling... As for this guy...
Toyota and all the other foreign car makers will NEVER learn to build an "American car".Why should everyone have to ride in cars that have cheap interiors poor gas mileage and no resale values?As for the Impala being the #1 selling car...lol...big friggin deal they are practically giving them away with all the rebates and incentives they HAVE to give to move them.The Japanese brands dont have to do that...people actually want to buy them.Get in your Camry or your Avalon and drive to your local International airport, board a plane and blow yourself up. Who said that we had to drive cars with poor interiors? Low gas mileage? I personally would much rather be caught driving an Impala than a Camry or Avalon.
well said. toyota doesnt so much need to LEARN how to sell cars, rather they should TEACH some american companies how to do it.
Twenty five precent of Americans are considering buying a Toyota, according to the results of a consumer survey which received wide publicity during Detroit's annual motor fest
Vehicle sales in my country (Australia) used to be long and utterly dominated by US-owned companies, but not any more
Currently one in every four (!) new-vehicle sales here is a Toyota, and their market-share is ever increasing
MRDETROITMETAL
01-17-2007, 03:48 AM
Vehicle sales in my country (Australia) used to be long and utterly dominated by US-owned companies, but not any more
...So thats why HOLDEN is the #1 car in your country then?...right?....ah hem. Holden is GM. ...and uh BUICK is like taking over in China....so wats your point, ??? One of four is the same in the US for ALL IMPORT CAR SALES !!
...the rest, ALL the rest, are American Cars !!!
Do the Math.:D
jediali
01-17-2007, 04:43 AM
...So thats why HOLDEN is the #1 car in your country then?...right?....ah hem. Holden is GM. ...and uh BUICK is like taking over in China....so wats your point, ??? One of four is the same in the US for ALL IMPORT CAR SALES !!
...the rest, ALL the rest, are American Cars !!!
Do the Math.:D
erm...you have a style Mr D...In Britain there are NO non-foreign owned volume car manufactureres left, Are there any in australia?
see:
http://www.autozine.org/Manufacturer/Manufacturer.htm
MRDETROITMETAL
01-17-2007, 04:55 AM
http://www.autozine.org/Manufacturer/USA.htm#GM
...interesting site there.
seems to need a 2006 update tho, but pretty good info overall, that link above kinda says it all to me when you add 2006 to the story it gets real interesting, considering GM made 1.9 billion in profits after supposedly getting the crap beat outta them by Toyopet....NOT.
Ya know about 100 years ago there was another car company that THOUGHT they had GM beat too....
That company was FORD. They kept building the same car.
Until everybody who wanted one ...had one. GM on the other hand kept spending money and building all kinds of different cars and trucks and trains and....well you get the idea.
Toyo NEEDS to learn from history....NOBODY beats the GENERAL. Nobody ever has. Not gonna happen now either.
THX for that link...very cool site.
Interesting too that EVERY country listed save for Italy & France (and Italy or Fiat was just recently dropped) has a car company OWNED by General Motors !!!
...and it is a SHAME that there are no more BRITISH volume car builders left, (tho I loved my TVR, it was not a volume car)....so many Great marques were all British and now....thanks to what?....Import sales?...hmmm. Quite a sad state of affairs there, Lad. Quite.
jediali
01-17-2007, 05:21 AM
http://www.autozine.org/Manufacturer/USA.htm#GM
...interesting site there.
seems to need a 2006 update tho, but pretty good info overall, that link above kinda says it all to me when you add 2006 to the story it gets real interesting, considering GM made 1.9 billion in profits after supposedly getting the crap beat outta them by Toyopet....NOT.
Ya know about 100 years ago there was another car company that THOUGHT they had GM beat too....
That company was FORD. They kept building the same car.
Until everybody who wanted one ...had one. GM on the other hand kept spending money and building all kinds of different cars and trucks and trains and....well you get the idea.
Toyo NEEDS to learn from history....NOBODY beats the GENERAL. Nobody ever has. Not gonna happen now either.
THX for that link...very cool site.
Interesting too that EVERY country listed save for Italy & France (and Italy or Fiat was just recently dropped) has a car company OWNED by General Motors !!!
...and it is a SHAME that there are no more BRITISH volume car builders left, (tho I loved my TVR, it was not a volume car)....so many Great marques were all British and now....thanks to what?....Import sales?...hmmm. Quite a sad state of affairs there, Lad. Quite.
thnx MrD, the site is hosted by one Mr Wang who has been engaged to be married so has not updated for at least 4 months now, before that regular updates made autozine.org an ace site, still is i think.
Because UK has lost its automotive originality i now focus on technical differences, my pride for UK cars has gone. However many F1 teams are based in east london so the engineers are here!
...So thats why HOLDEN is the #1 car in your country then?...right?....ah hem. Holden is GM. ...and uh BUICK is like taking over in China....so wats your point, ??? One of four is the same in the US for ALL IMPORT CAR SALES !!
...the rest, ALL the rest, are American Cars !!!
Ah hem yourself. My point is this:
Once upon a time (when I was in school) it used to be that one in every two cars sold here was a GM-Holden. In other words GM owned 50% of our market, but not any more
Btw that same market sales-ratio once held true for GM within the US, but not any more
Since those days Toyota has steadily grown to 22.9% of total AU sales, and their trend-line is up. By comparison the 'Big two' US-owned companies trend downwards: '1st loser' GM-Holden manage only 14.9%, while 3rd placed Ford have withered to 10.2%
Similar trends are reflected in worldwide terms. Toyota have now eclipsed 'maximally-morgaged' Ford in total sales, and are progressively closing in on debt-laden GM. The third arm of US domestic auto makers Chrysler was aquired by German carmaker Daimler-Benz, who wants to sell off their loss-making American mistake but cannot find a buyer
Do the Math.:D
Here's some math for you to consider :D
Toyota set to overtake GM in 2007
Worldwide production expected to rise 4 percent, making the Japanese company the biggest automaker in the world.
"Its [Toyota's] annual vehicle production is likely to increase about 500,000 a year for the next few years and we expect operating profit growth of about 10 percent for the next three years."
In the year to March, Toyota expects to earn a net profit of 1.55 trillion yen ($13.1 billion) - a record for any Japanese company.
Toyota shares have gained 27 percent this year, valuing the firm at close to $230 billion - about 14 times GM's market capitalization.
http://money.cnn.com/2006/12/22/news/companies/toyota_gm.reut/index.htm?postversion=2006122210
MRDETROITMETAL
01-17-2007, 08:19 AM
Ah...yes all of that may be numerically correct, BUT you are not taking into account the dynamics that made and sustain GM and works against Toyota. How many car companies does Toyo OWN world wide, ONE, because no matter the name put on them they are ALL THE SAME CAR.
All originate from the same corporate center and follow the company line, as is a cultural thing in Japan anyway.
Not that this is bad just that playing against a HUGE company that GM had built itself into was pretty easy to take a bite here and there from the Giant's stash of cars.
NOW...its a different World. Toyo made the fatal error that FORD did years ago...arogance and insisting that and these words Ill paraphrase but the EXACT WORDS came out of Henry Ford & wahthismane who commands TOYO:
"WE ARE NOT DEALING WITH THE SAME CUSTOMERS AS GM,..WE MAKE SIMPLE RELIABLE CARS FOR THE COMMON MAN, WE ARE NOT AFRAID OF GM TAKING OUR CUSTOMERS BECAUSE WE HAVE THE SINGLE LARGEST SELLING CARS IN THE WORLD"
Well, guess what? GM took thier customers, and regulated FORD to a permenant #2 until Toyo passed then up for "sucker place"....and NOW GM is at it again, taking the lions share of WORLDWIDE cars sales in EVERY COUNTRY in the entire WORLD. Wanna know why ?...they OWN 'em all !!!!
They build anything, everything and lots of 'em all day long all over the world and thier cars are different from country to country and different even more from model to model now that the sleeping Giant is pissed off !!!
LOOK OUT. GM is back and Bad ASS, most of the dead weight that created costs have been shuffed off to Hundayi and of all comapnies...TOYOTA. Yeah thats right.
All those dumbass americans who worked for GM and dragged it down are now running TOYO in the USA !!!
Coffee break anyone ??...have you seen the new movie?
wheres my paycheck ?....That sound like CAR GUYS ???
NO.
Well there are only car guys left at GM, and ALL they do is create cars and trucks that people BUY !!!....and they do it together now by utilizing the COMBINED talents from ALL of thier various Worldwide companies !!! GM makes more money per car sold than 3 toyotas, so now you do the math babe.
GM can NOW make more by selling less.
... & that is a real "American Revolution" !!!
I love these debates !...lol.
Ah...yes all of that may be numerically correct
Yes it is! You told me to do the math .. remember?
BUT you are not taking into account the dynamics that made and sustain GM and works against Toyota. How many car companies does Toyo OWN world wide, ONE, because no matter the name put on them they are ALL THE SAME CAR.
[GM] money could be saved through commonization of platforms, body architectures and components, the report said. Toyota has apparently saved $1,000 per vehicle over the last five years by commonizing commodity components, the research firm said
Maybe that's one more reason why Toyota is expected to earn USD$1.3 Billion in the first 3 months of '07, which is 3x GM's worldwide profit
....and NOW GM is at it again, taking the lions share of WORLDWIDE cars sales in EVERY COUNTRY in the entire WORLD.
oh really? :rolleyes:
I guess "EVERY COUNTRY" would exclude ANY country in Asia, in Europe, or the UK, nor indeed Australia which I just bothered to explain to you - obviously to no avail. Excluding the Americas - of which I am unfamilar - is there currently ANY country on Earth where GM wins in total sales?
GM makes more money per car sold than 3 toyotas, so now you do the math babe.
GM can NOW make more by selling less.
... & that is a real "American Revolution" !!!
Toyota makes a profit of about $2,000 per vehicle, while GM suffers a loss of about $1,200 per vehicle, a difference of $3,200 per unit
I love these debates !...lol.
I would too if yours were based on facts not fantasy !....lol
SPHFerrari
01-17-2007, 02:42 PM
owned?
BIGWORM_25
01-17-2007, 04:31 PM
MDM, thanks for improving the Camry's poor styling... As for this guy...Get in your Camry or your Avalon and drive to your local International airport, board a plane and blow yourself up. Who said that we had to drive cars with poor interiors? Low gas mileage? I personally would much rather be caught driving an Impala than a Camry or Avalon.
Thanks for yor input I guess.I used to LOVE American cars with a passion...my favorite cars of all time are ALL general Motors cars...1970 Chevelle LS6,!987 Buick GNX,1988 Corvette ZR1,1964 Impala,1966 Impala,1957 Bel-Air,1974 Corvette stingray....etc.What Im trying to say is that why people want to own a Toyota is they are far superior in build quality...resale and looks than their American competitors.And General Motors better be out selling Toyota because they are basically giving them away..but if the Domestic brands are doing SOOO good why are they all laying off some much and closing plants?Thats really great for the U.S. economy isnt it.You go to a Chevy dealership and look at the sticker...lol...you will never have to pay that...hell they will knock off 8000 dollars just to move it.And as far as all the people from G.M. and Ford going to Foreign car brand plants...so what?The REAL management of those companies JAPANESE will NOT let them drive their companies in the ground like they did their own.And If you love American cars of today I applaude you.You are obviously so full of American gusto and bravado that you believe we are in Iraq because of freedom.We need more people like you so big american companies can flourish and the middle class struggles...Go America!!!
LOL..sarcasm...but if I did board a plan and blow myself up...it would be American Airlines...Ironic huh?
Sorry about this post...this is a photoshop forum and thus should be treated like one...feel free to remove this .
STREETFIRE
01-17-2007, 04:57 PM
Thanks for yor input I guess.I used to LOVE American cars with a passion...my favorite cars of all time are ALL general Motors cars...1970 Chevelle LS6,!987 Buick GNX,1988 Corvette ZR1,1964 Impala,1966 Impala,1957 Bel-Air,1974 Corvette stingray....etc.What Im trying to say is that why people want to own a Toyota is they are far superior in build quality...resale and looks than their American competitors.And General Motors better be out selling Toyota because they are basically giving them away..but if the Domestic brands are doing SOOO good why are they all laying off some much and closing plants?Thats really great for the U.S. economy isnt it.You go to a Chevy dealership and look at the sticker...lol...you will never have to pay that...hell they will knock off 8000 dollars just to move it.And as far as all the people from G.M. and Ford going to Foreign car brand plants...so what?The REAL management of those companies JAPANESE will NOT let them drive their companies in the ground like they did their own.And If you love American cars of today I applaude you.You are obviously so full of American gusto and bravado that you believe we are in Iraq because of freedom.We need more people like you so big american companies can flourish and the middle class struggles...Go America!!!
LOL..sarcasm...but if I did board a plan and blow myself up...it would be American Airlines...Ironic huh?
No way. American cars look way better than any Camry, Avalon or Aurion. Full stop.
And I don't love all American cars. My favourites are Corvettes, Impalas, Chargers, Vipers, Mustangs and 'Cudas.
Pando
01-17-2007, 05:22 PM
owned?
Very much so.
MRDETROITMETAL
01-17-2007, 05:56 PM
See its like this; Market Dynamics are in GM's favor because even tho GM has a past obligation to the UAW that the japanese & others dont have because they paid slave wages for years,...now with them making cars in the USA those cost will be climbing and attached to new cars they sell, notice the price increases in new Toyos made here ?
THAT and the fact TOYO continue to produce the same old crap designs on the same basic chassis is gonna catch up to them soon, whereas tho GM has its past obligations to honor they have cut off all the BS and poured money into new designs and engineering (witness the VOLT)...a true alternative power source car, not a "fake Hybrid" like the pirius or others.
Leading the way is what GM excells at, Toyo knows this too, as they (when GM sold Toyos rebaged here) they learned alot about selling cars in the USA from that experience, to GM shagrin ultimately too. That will never happen again. GM has the resources to sustain profitable operations worldwide with only 20% of marketshare. They are well above that right now. What you are seeing as "losses" are actually product investment that is written off against earnings, but is creating more desirable products and profitable operations. (witness the Hummer explosion on the market, the fastest selling brand EVER in automotive History !!!...and a very profitable product line for GM).
The auto markets are becoming more and more fragmented and GM has a foot in every one of them, they dont need to lead all the sales or even any to be very succsessful, Toyo on the other hand is just steppin into the S**T, that GM just walked out of...and they (toyo) are taking alll the same jerks who caused the problems at GM with them now.
Mark my words.
The change is happening NOW !
More tradeins at GM dealers are IMPORT CARS than ever before, ....that is bad news for Toyo. They need to get used to it. The ONLY real market problems for GM were in the USA, and thats already turning around fast, even with selling less cars !....thats a neat trick.
That spells real trouble for Toyo.
Obviously ...uh, you dont OWN NOTHING !!!...lol, least of all me.
OH and Bigworm...check out the real ratings of GM cars for quality, 100,000 mile warranties on ALL GM cars now !...and Buick Caddilac and Chevy are ALL in the top of quality ratings !!!
clutch-monkey
01-17-2007, 06:08 PM
Well there are only car guys left at GM, and ALL they do is create cars and trucks that people BUY !!!
this is quite literally the funniest thing i have heard all day. All i ever hear about is complaints about GM being run by bean counters. Sure this my change, but GM is still in deep shit
MRDETROITMETAL
01-17-2007, 06:16 PM
this is quite literally the funniest thing i have heard all day. All i ever hear about is complaints about GM being run by bean counters. Sure this my change, but GM is still in deep shit
That WAS true, ...those "bean counters " are working for TOYO USA right now !!!....Toyo is steppin into it BIG TIME & dose not understand what they have done, because they are not able to see the BIG ASS tree falling on them in the middle of the forest, they are too busy counting thier "beans".
Now THATS Funny !!!:D
clutch-monkey
01-17-2007, 06:18 PM
was it GM that made a FWD V8?
Esperante
01-17-2007, 06:24 PM
That WAS true, ...those "bean counters " are working for TOYO USA right now !!!....Toyo is steppin into it BIG TIME & dose not understand what they have done, because they are not able to see the BIG ASS tree falling on them in the middle of the forest, they are too busy counting thier "beans".
Now THATS Funny !!!:D
That's precisely why Toyota far outsells GM in the worldwide market.
Pando
01-17-2007, 06:45 PM
I would advice MDM to stick to chopping but I don't think he's doing that good a job at it either.
Blitz_
01-18-2007, 02:56 AM
No way. American cars look way better than any Camry, Avalon or Aurion. Full stop.
And I don't love all American cars. My favourites are Corvettes, Impalas, Chargers, Vipers, Mustangs and 'Cudas.
You are comparing HiPO sports cars (corvettes, Mustangs Cudas) to Camry's Avalons and Aurions? Rofl..funny boy, learn to grow up and compare cars that are on a level playing field.
MRDETROITMETAL
01-18-2007, 04:24 AM
Company Type Public (NYSE: GM)
Fiscal Year-End December
2005 Sales (mil.) $192,604.0
1-Year Sales Growth (0.5%)
2005 Net Income (mil.) ($10,567.0)
2005 Employees 335,000
1-Year Employee Growth 3.4%
DETROIT – General Motors sold 9.09 million cars and trucks around the world in 2006, according to preliminary sales figures released today. It marked the third time (2006, 2005 and 1978) the world’s largest automaker has sold more than 9 million vehicles in a calendar year.
2006 global sales were down less than 1 percent from the 9.17 million vehicles sold in 2005, reflecting a number of factors, including planned cuts of 75,000 vehicles in daily rental fleet sales in the United States and offsetting growth in other global markets.
“GM had some notable sales successes as we continued to expand in key growth markets around the world in 2006,” John Middlebrook, GM vice president, Global Sales, Service and Marketing Operations said today. “In 2006, we saw 18 percent growth in the Asia/Pacific region, and 17 percent growth in the Latin America, Africa and Middle East region. We’re also seeing improving results in Europe where we sold more than 2 million vehicles for the first time.”
MRDETROITMETAL
01-18-2007, 05:07 AM
was it GM that made a FWD V8?
yep 1966 !!!..called the TORONADO !!!! & in 67 the Eldorado...455 cu in v-8 FWD master works of auto design and innovation !!!
Leading the world is standard practice at GM.;)
SupraMan22
01-18-2007, 05:14 AM
you should most likely get some car knowledge to talk about cars first, then try to sound smart. Ya might look like less of a fool
motorsportnerd
01-18-2007, 05:17 AM
MDM, thanks for improving the Camry's poor styling... As for this guy...Get in your Camry or your Avalon and drive to your local International airport, board a plane and blow yourself up. Who said that we had to drive cars with poor interiors? Low gas mileage? I personally would much rather be caught driving an Impala than a Camry or Avalon.
Hmm.... I've attacked you for not allowing others to have an opinion before now. First - styling is a MATTER OF OPINION. Second, how does the Camry have low gas mileage? Third, since we're talking about cars built in the US - the Camry IS built in the US, so there's no need for anyone to head for an international airport.
You're attacks on Toyota are becoming just a little excessive. Maybe you should actually go and drive one before rubbishing them.
Company Type Public (NYSE: GM)
Fiscal Year-End December
2005 Sales (mil.) $192,604.0
1-Year Sales Growth (0.5%)
2005 Net Income (mil.) ($10,567.0)
2005 Employees 335,000
1-Year Employee Growth 3.4%
$291 Billion (GM consolidated debt @ 31/3/2006)
MRDETROITMETAL
01-18-2007, 05:29 AM
In China, GM and its Shanghai GM and SAIC-GM-Wuling joint ventures sold 876,747 vehicles, which represented an increase of 31.8 percent over 2005. Shanghai GM sales rose 27.0 percent on a year-on-year basis to 413,367 units. SAIC-GM-Wuling, GM's mini-vehicle joint venture, registered sales growth of 36.5 percent to 460,155 vehicles. China remained GM's second-largest global market in 2006, following the United States.
GM Daewoo sales likewise remained strong in 2006. Its sales in Korea rose 19.2 percent on an annual basis to 128,332 units. The Tosca sedan and Winstorm SUV accounted for more than 36 percent of domestic sales. Exports of complete vehicles and knockdown (KD) kits from Korea jumped 33.1 percent to 1,397,487 units. This was a GM record.
Despite a drop in sales to 146,502 units in 2006, GM Holden remained Australia's number two seller of vehicles. GM Holden received a boost from the launch of the award-winning VE Commodore, Australia's single largest vehicle program.
Thailand continued to lead the way for GM's growth in ASEAN. Sales of GM's lineup of Chevrolet products totaled 29,727 units. For ASEAN as a whole, GM sales topped 38,000 vehicles in a market that was down overall.
In India, GM rolled out an unprecedented three new Chevrolet vehicles (the Aveo, SRV and Aveo U-VA) in 2006. Consumers responded, with GM's sales in India rising 15.4 percent year on year to 34,552 units.
TOYO ...dont look in your backyard cuz uh GM is THERE already !!!...LOL.
Please go drive a toyo camery then an Impala ss same price same gas milage but the chevys a V* with more room and value than any toyo-let could ever deliver.
fpv_gtho
01-18-2007, 05:36 AM
yep 1966 !!!..called the TORONADO !!!! & in 67 the Eldorado...455 cu in v-8 FWD master works of auto design and innovation !!!
Leading the world is standard practice at GM.;)
Dont forget 2006.
motorsportnerd
01-18-2007, 06:05 AM
The Pontiac Grand Prix GXP V8 - V8, 303 bhp & FWD. Guess that qualifies as a V8 powered FWD GM car.
Its an interesting car - I'll admit that. Road & Track and Car & Driver were reasonable impressed with it some months back in road tests as well.
See: http://www.caranddriver.com/roadtests/9964/pontiac-grand-prix-gxp.html
Also, the Chevrolet Impala SS is powered by the same 303 bhp 5.3 litre V8 and is FWD. Car and Driver preview here: http://www.caranddriver.com/previews/9971/chevrolet-impala.html
I wonder if we'll look back on these two cars in 30-40 years time in the same way as we look at the Olds Toronado? As interesting, technical oddities.
Blitz_
01-18-2007, 06:37 AM
Personally, from an Australian persective, I find barely any of America's sedans from GM, Pontiac, Ford NA etc inspiring, exciting and nothing much above boring and mundane. They may do the job well, but hell, im just used to looking at Falcons and Commodores and thinking..why are american designs so boring? It may be the same coming from an American perspective, that being cars down under may be nothing to shout about, however, I find the Aurion pleasing to the eye and quite attractive and very well made. Its just that European and even Australian cars are that much more attractive than the bland, crappo American sedans.
Blitz_
01-18-2007, 06:39 AM
Dont forget 2006.
Innovative allrite, I had myself a laugh at the Dodge Calibur (i think) ads where they highlighted features such as a "beverage cooler" :rolleyes:
MRDETROITMETAL
01-18-2007, 08:06 AM
http://www.carchops.com/showthread.php?t=1216
Well this is what TOYO delivers in so called Quality car..LOL> as for looks, holdens are designed by Holden in ur country & not GM in Detroit !...so ???
and as for innovative designs that will be memorable from todays cars...Corvette & the Solstice come to mind right off as stand out masterworks of automobiles.
SupraMan22
01-18-2007, 01:41 PM
If you werent so biased none of this would have even started. Toyota is a very good car company and obviously you cant take it. How can you compare a Impala SS to a Toyota Camry, they closely related. If toyota sucks so bad why do alot of people buy them over american cars? Answer that please. All you do is look shit up on the net, then you post it here to try and look smart. You are posting worthless shit. If your 50 you have alot of growing up to do and alot of realization that needs to occur. I would assume toyota will keep making cars people actually want, no matter what you say. One of the only reason people are buying dodges these days is because they have dropped the prices quite a bit. I know here in indiana they are selling the cars for cheap, then giving a free hemi upgrade, so people will actually buy them. As for your backyard, better watch out for a toyota plant. Since quite a bit of the toyota cars and trucks come from the united states. :) I might be biased a little bit also just because i know a little about toyota, dads worked for/with them for 15 years. You dont seem me making threads like "toyota is teh bombz" Just grow up MDM, honestly.
STREETFIRE
01-18-2007, 05:24 PM
You are comparing HiPO sports cars (corvettes, Mustangs Cudas) to Camry's Avalons and Aurions? Rofl..funny boy, learn to grow up and compare cars that are on a level playing field.
You should learn to READ before you go posting crap. I didn't compare anything to anything. Got it?
Hmm.... I've attacked you for not allowing others to have an opinion before now. First - styling is a MATTER OF OPINION. Second, how does the Camry have low gas mileage? Third, since we're talking about cars built in the US - the Camry IS built in the US, so there's no need for anyone to head for an international airport. You're attacks on Toyota are becoming just a little excessive. Maybe you should actually go and drive one before rubbishing them.Go get an eye test before you post crap as well. Seriously, if you love the Camry and Aurion/Avalon, that's not my problem. I wasn't talking about the Camry when I said we don't have to drive cars with low mpg. I am a fan of turbo sixes and anything better. But I am a passionate V8 lover, so I don't care about low mpg or gas-guzzling. Why do I have to be picked on for doing that? Is that a crime here? I've seen hundreds of forums where all people have a warm welcome, street racers included... and yet, this forum is like a school playground... where there's the bullies (people like you) and the other people who didn't do anything (me, many other people I know). So don't go spouting dribble when you didn't even hear what I said.
fpv_gtho
01-18-2007, 05:25 PM
How old are you?
STREETFIRE
01-18-2007, 05:26 PM
21. Why?
fpv_gtho
01-18-2007, 05:28 PM
Because you sure dont act like your 21
STREETFIRE
01-18-2007, 05:46 PM
Your grammar indicates that you're 13 :D
fpv_gtho
01-18-2007, 05:50 PM
Is that all youve got?
Seriously, grow up. Youve been accused twice by others now of copy/pasting others opinions, once in the NFS Carbon discussion, twice on the Toyota Aurion. You've constantly resorted to your "if you dont agree with that, go to your local international airport" line to try and defend your POV, and despite claiming to be "bullied" by others, i could cite several instances where you've been responsible of that yourself.
Shape up or ship out.
STREETFIRE
01-18-2007, 05:55 PM
Seriously, grow up.
I really wish you would.
acemotorsport
01-18-2007, 06:04 PM
and he is out of here
motorsportnerd
01-18-2007, 06:14 PM
You should learn to READ before you go posting crap. I didn't compare anything to anything. Got it?Go get an eye test before you post crap as well. Seriously, if you love the Camry and Aurion/Avalon, that's not my problem. I wasn't talking about the Camry when I said we don't have to drive cars with low mpg. I am a fan of turbo sixes and anything better. But I am a passionate V8 lover, so I don't care about low mpg or gas-guzzling. Why do I have to be picked on for doing that? Is that a crime here? I've seen hundreds of forums where all people have a warm welcome, street racers included... and yet, this forum is like a school playground... where there's the bullies (people like you) and the other people who didn't do anything (me, many other people I know). So don't go spouting dribble when you didn't even hear what I said.
Mate, I was attacking you because of your aggressive attitude telling people to "go find their international airport".
Its fine if you don't like Toyotas - but don't be so aggressive in your attacks. If I attacked Holdens the same way I would upset you in very short order.
And yes, I do like Camrys/Aurions - they're good cars for what they're designed to do. And I think they look OK. No eye test needed. Learn to respect the fact that other people don't agree without resort to insults about needing eye tests (or telling people to find their international airport).
As for street racers - I'm fairly tolerent, but I'll never welcome them. Go find a racetrack and don't put other peoples lives in danger. Same goes for those who say its ok to drink and drive. But that's for another thread....
clutch-monkey
01-18-2007, 07:39 PM
21. Why?
i call complete bullshit on that.
kingofthering
01-18-2007, 07:43 PM
I personally would much rather be caught driving an Impala than a Camry or Avalon.
$10 says this guy has never driven any of these cars.
Drift Illusion
01-18-2007, 07:47 PM
This thread is becoming really strange...
clutch-monkey
01-18-2007, 07:47 PM
if he gets back from his ban, i'd like to see an egg-nog proof that he is 21 (somehow..i don't care lol) and whatever cars has.
i doubt he can prove either.
MRDETROITMETAL
01-19-2007, 12:35 AM
IT IS AMAZING...How the brand of car sets people off, divides them into "camps" and then desends into personal commentary having Nothing to do with the cars at all.
BUT ....that is precisely what has happened to the general population too who buy these cars, they have become divided and defensive, but it is always the SAME agrument from the Toyo side..."pepole buy them because they are better quality cars"....(not true, the incidence of defects is the same, as whenever any company builds massive amounts of cars like Toyo & GM do a certian percentage if problems in manufacture will occur, Toyo is NO BETTER than GM in this regard at all the facts prove this to be true.)...
"Toyo dealers back up the cars with service and care about their customers first"...That is a very deliberate misconception that was planned by Toyo marketing in the US market, because Japan's cultural relationship between the Government and Corporations is "socialist" in nature,...Mitsu Bank, Sony, Toyota, and the Government ARE in fact Partners in exporting Japans products to the world, and as such the companies have a financial advantage in costs that allows them to (by increasing the value of the Country currency at will ).. to facilitate massive currency exchange rates and then spend the OTHER countries currency in it home market to BUY OFF, or INDUCE the (in the case of auto dealers) best and most succsessful salesmen to sell thier products at twice the profit of the domestic brands. THAT BTW is called GREED....but it was Very effective in pulling away the largest producers of car sales in the USA from selling exclusively GM Ford or Chrysler products. And when a salesmen can sell you 2 different cars at the same price point, and earn double or triple the commision on one, well...which one is he gonna push you into, huh ?
Quality of the cars is NOT a viable point of contention anymore, as GM offers 100,000 mile warranties on ALL cars now....But remember, they still have a bunch of second class dealerships...because Toyo only went after the most succsessful dealers...and bought them off.
This is for certian an IMAGE problem that needs effort and is starting to turn around by offering "incentives" and with major media efforts to attract attention to domestic cars and bring back the "enthusiast" attitude towards the brand name ( why is Chevy bringing back the Camaro?, better question is...why did they PRETEND they were only considering production...!!!???)..
WHY ?....to create that CONFLICT that we see so aptly displayed here, to RILE up the RIVEL ...to start the Identification with a brand name (Chevy) with a rich and impressive history that Toyo is totally lacking in, unless you consider the "TOYOPET" the REAL name of the first toy cars in the USA,to be a hallmark of automotive history !!!.
Because my friends....WE ARE THE PROBLEM...not GM or Toyo....they both build competent and reliable cars...with very different intents and support structures behind them, and to opposing sets of conditions under which they must succeed or fail. So Please dont go attacking ANYONE for thier opinions or comments, no matter what they ARE entitled to say it here....and dispelling the personal expression is exactly what IMO Toyota has done to the automotive industry on whole...
...their single most apparent contribution has been to reduce the automobile into a CAR.
A simple functional appliance for anybody who needs a transportation vehicle....JUST THE SAME EXACT PREMISE THAT HENRY FORD FOLLOWED 100 YEARS AGO....AND LOST TO GM. HISTORY DOES REPEAT ITSELF TO THOSE THAT THINK THEY ARE ABOVE IT OR SMARTER THAN THOSE WHO CAME BEFORE THEM.
...& that they may be, but they TOYO are not smart enough anymore becuse GM has alredy won the War, and is just starting little battles all over the place now to distract and divide TOYO's focus...they Never know which direction GM is gonna come at them from next anymore.
Even worse, they dont think it matters at all...LMAO.
THAT is why I am DOWN on TOYOTA.
Plus they just build UGLY FRIGGIN DESIGNS !!!...like Bad Music all day long.
UGH.
"Toyo dealers back up the cars with service and care about their customers first"...That is a very deliberate misconception that was planned by Toyo marketing in the US market, because Japan's cultural relationship between the Government and Corporations is "socialist" in nature,...Mitsu Bank, Sony, Toyota, and the Government ARE in fact Partners in exporting Japans products to the world
This is how ALL countries work, so long as they are smart enough.
as such the companies have a financial advantage in costs that allows them to (by increasing the value of the Country currency at will ).. to facilitate massive currency exchange rates and then spend the OTHER countries currency in it home market
International currency markets have far more power than individual companies or central banks. George Sorus has proven that several times.
BUY OFF, or INDUCE the (in the case of auto dealers) best and most succsessful salesmen to sell thier products at twice the profit of the domestic brands. THAT BTW is called GREED
This is bad, but the GREED that is GM making more profit/car than Toyota is good?
Btw Toyo makes tyres, Toyota makes cars - and I think you are you may be confused about this :p
kingofthering
01-19-2007, 09:51 AM
IT IS AMAZING...How the brand of car sets people off, divides them into "camps" and then desends into personal commentary having Nothing to do with the cars at all.
BUT ....that is precisely what has happened to the general population too who buy these cars, they have become divided and defensive, but it is always the SAME agrument from the Toyo side..."pepole buy them because they are better quality cars"....(not true, the incidence of defects is the same, as whenever any company builds massive amounts of cars like Toyo & GM do a certian percentage if problems in manufacture will occur, Toyo is NO BETTER than GM in this regard at all the facts prove this to be true.)...
"Toyo dealers back up the cars with service and care about their customers first"...That is a very deliberate misconception that was planned by Toyo marketing in the US market, because Japan's cultural relationship between the Government and Corporations is "socialist" in nature,...Mitsu Bank, Sony, Toyota, and the Government ARE in fact Partners in exporting Japans products to the world, and as such the companies have a financial advantage in costs that allows them to (by increasing the value of the Country currency at will ).. to facilitate massive currency exchange rates and then spend the OTHER countries currency in it home market to BUY OFF, or INDUCE the (in the case of auto dealers) best and most succsessful salesmen to sell thier products at twice the profit of the domestic brands. THAT BTW is called GREED....but it was Very effective in pulling away the largest producers of car sales in the USA from selling exclusively GM Ford or Chrysler products. And when a salesmen can sell you 2 different cars at the same price point, and earn double or triple the commision on one, well...which one is he gonna push you into, huh ?
Quality of the cars is NOT a viable point of contention anymore, as GM offers 100,000 mile warranties on ALL cars now....But remember, they still have a bunch of second class dealerships...because Toyo only went after the most succsessful dealers...and bought them off.
This is for certian an IMAGE problem that needs effort and is starting to turn around by offering "incentives" and with major media efforts to attract attention to domestic cars and bring back the "enthusiast" attitude towards the brand name ( why is Chevy bringing back the Camaro?, better question is...why did they PRETEND they were only considering production...!!!???)..
WHY ?....to create that CONFLICT that we see so aptly displayed here, to RILE up the RIVEL ...to start the Identification with a brand name (Chevy) with a rich and impressive history that Toyo is totally lacking in, unless you consider the "TOYOPET" the REAL name of the first toy cars in the USA,to be a hallmark of automotive history !!!.
Because my friends....WE ARE THE PROBLEM...not GM or Toyo....they both build competent and reliable cars...with very different intents and support structures behind them, and to opposing sets of conditions under which they must succeed or fail. So Please dont go attacking ANYONE for thier opinions or comments, no matter what they ARE entitled to say it here....and dispelling the personal expression is exactly what IMO Toyota has done to the automotive industry on whole...
...their single most apparent contribution has been to reduce the automobile into a CAR.
A simple functional appliance for anybody who needs a transportation vehicle....JUST THE SAME EXACT PREMISE THAT HENRY FORD FOLLOWED 100 YEARS AGO....AND LOST TO GM. HISTORY DOES REPEAT ITSELF TO THOSE THAT THINK THEY ARE ABOVE IT OR SMARTER THAN THOSE WHO CAME BEFORE THEM.
...& that they may be, but they TOYO are not smart enough anymore becuse GM has alredy won the War, and is just starting little battles all over the place now to distract and divide TOYO's focus...they Never know which direction GM is gonna come at them from next anymore.
Even worse, they dont think it matters at all...LMAO.
THAT is why I am DOWN on TOYOTA.
Plus they just build UGLY FRIGGIN DESIGNS !!!...like Bad Music all day long.
UGH.
Right, would you say that the 2000GT is ugly? Didn't think so.
Toyota does have a pretty long history. Do some research before jumping to conclusions, and if GM won the war, why is it in such huge debt?
You also contradict yourself when you say we shouldn't argue over who is better, but yet you yourself say that GM is the better company and Ford sucks.
Ingolstadt
01-19-2007, 10:38 AM
If i'm Katsuaki Watanabe, and i read this, i'd play a joke on GM by buying them up, and selling them to Ford at $10,000USD. Toyota's still got plenty to spend. :)
BIGWORM_25
01-19-2007, 03:02 PM
that Mr.Detroitmental has an axe to gring with Toyota.Why?I dont know...but Im willing to bet it has a lot to do with his age and lack of real world views.You cant read what is printed in the newspapers and automotive magazines and take it as law.Everyone knows that the ONLY publication that is not COMPLETELY biased in favor of the car manufacturers all over the world is Consumer Reports.Car And Driver,Motortrend,Road And Track ALL recieve compensation in the form of advertising revenue,press cars,parties,vacations etc.In order to "review" i.e. give a good review about their product.Also when General Motors and Ford come out ON THEIR OWN and release information that they are obligated to reveal such as Revenue reports, Import export ,costs ,and numbers of LAYOFFS and PLANT CLOSINGS
that is swept under the rug by people like him?He is right in one point though,the fault in all this ISNT the workers it is the management and the Unions of old days.And the link you posted about the Toyota engine sludge problem...lol.How many of them said they didnt have documentaion as to when/where there car was serviced...lol.Typical dumbasses.If you have your vehicle serviced AS RECOMMENDED IN THE OWNERS MANUAL in the intervals stated you cannot void your warranty.And having documentation is the only way to prove it.AS far as Toyotas and the other foreign brands changing a car into "transportation..well?That is Exactly what it is.Labeling it a no soul car?You are right its not supposed to be(speaking of a Camry/Accord)But that means that a Chevy Impala stirs your soul?Come on!!They all are bland people movers that is what they are for.If you want awe inspiring design,heart stopping performance and the like...pony up to Z06 or a G.T. 500 something along those lines.But lets NOT forget cars like the Toyota Supra,Acura NSX,Honda S2000,Nissan Z cars all of them,Skylines,Evos,WRX Sti,etc. etc.The gas crunch during the seventies is what did the Domestic brands in and yes SLOWLY they are coming back.But if you honestly believe that build quality...FROM SITTING IN IT,DRIVING IT,PAYING FOR IT is the same between a Camry/Accord and a Impala you are on good drugs.Ford is killing G.M. as far as interior material quality and workmanship but cant give their cars away like G.M. is doing because of their already poor financial situation.Anyway...Im saying if you like G.M. sooo much thats cool.Id rather be driving a car that feels more solid,has more amenities,is safer,better re-sale value,and in my opinion looks better...even if I have to pay more for it.I dont even want to start on what the Rental market is doing to G.M. And Ford re-sale values....
Esperante
01-19-2007, 04:18 PM
IT IS AMAZING...How the brand of car sets people off, divides them into "camps" and then desends into personal commentary having Nothing to do with the cars at all.
This applies far more to yourself than anyone else.
BUT ....that is precisely what has happened to the general population too who buy these cars, they have become divided and defensive, but it is always the SAME agrument from the Toyo side..."pepole buy them because they are better quality cars"....(not true, the incidence of defects is the same, as whenever any company builds massive amounts of cars like Toyo & GM do a certian percentage if problems in manufacture will occur, Toyo is NO BETTER than GM in this regard at all the facts prove this to be true.)...
What the hell are you smoking? Toyota builds far superior cars in terms of overall quality and that's why GM and Ford have suffered these past three decades. You are ridiculous to say the reliability of American cars and Japanese cars is the same, as much as I'd like to say it. Show me a source that says 'the incidence of defects is the same, as whenever any company builds massive amounts of cars like Toyo & GM do a certian percentage if problems in manufacture will occur, Toyo is NO BETTER than GM in this regard at all the facts prove this to be true.' Your argument is not based on facts, it's based on some sort of weird GM ALL AMERIKAN fanboyism.
"Toyo dealers back up the cars with service and care about their customers first"...That is a very deliberate misconception that was planned by Toyo marketing in the US market, because Japan's cultural relationship between the Government and Corporations is "socialist" in nature,...Mitsu Bank, Sony, Toyota, and the Government ARE in fact Partners in exporting Japans products to the world, and as such the companies have a financial advantage in costs that allows them to (by increasing the value of the Country currency at will ).. to facilitate massive currency exchange rates and then spend the OTHER countries currency in it home market to BUY OFF, or INDUCE the (in the case of auto dealers) best and most succsessful salesmen to sell thier products at twice the profit of the domestic brands. THAT BTW is called GREED....but it was Very effective in pulling away the largest producers of car sales in the USA from selling exclusively GM Ford or Chrysler products. And when a salesmen can sell you 2 different cars at the same price point, and earn double or triple the commision on one, well...which one is he gonna push you into, huh ?
Salesmans sell products. Neither Toyota, Honda, GM, Ford, or Chrysler are innocent in that they push their products to sell.
Quality of the cars is NOT a viable point of contention anymore, as GM offers 100,000 mile warranties on ALL cars now
You are quite funny. So you don't want a reliable car? You want a POS that'll break down every other day and need servicing and then you have a worthless, unreliable piece of shit once you're done with your warranty. I'm sure you just long to drive to work and only have your car die on you halfway there. Now you're just being ludicrous.
....But remember, they still have a bunch of second class dealerships...because Toyo only went after the most succsessful dealers...and bought them off.
This is for certian an IMAGE problem that needs effort and is starting to turn around by offering "incentives" and with major media efforts to attract attention to domestic cars and bring back the "enthusiast" attitude towards the brand name ( why is Chevy bringing back the Camaro?, better question is...why did they PRETEND they were only considering production...!!!???)..
But cearly GM is manipulating the media to market their cars just as Toyota is manipulating the economy! :rolleyes:
WHY ?....to create that CONFLICT that we see so aptly displayed here, to RILE up the RIVEL ...to start the Identification with a brand name (Chevy) with a rich and impressive history that Toyo is totally lacking in, unless you consider the "TOYOPET" the REAL name of the first toy cars in the USA,to be a hallmark of automotive history !!!.
Toyota doesn't have a history? Where have you been since the 1930s?
As well, I don't really give a damn what kind of history the car company has got when I buy a new car. I want an affordable, fun, attractive and reliable car, not a POS with 'history.'
Because my friends....WE ARE THE PROBLEM...not GM or Toyo...
THEN STOP BLAMING THE PROBLEMS ON TOYOTA!
they both build competent and reliable cars...with very different intents and support structures behind them, and to opposing sets of conditions under which they must succeed or fail. So Please dont go attacking ANYONE for thier opinions or comments, no matter what they ARE entitled to say it here....and dispelling the personal expression is exactly what IMO Toyota has done to the automotive industry on whole...
What if their opinions are stupid and contrived?
...their single most apparent contribution has been to reduce the automobile into a CAR. A simple functional appliance for anybody who needs a transportation vehicle....JUST THE SAME EXACT PREMISE THAT HENRY FORD FOLLOWED 100 YEARS AGO....AND LOST TO GM. HISTORY DOES REPEAT ITSELF TO THOSE THAT THINK THEY ARE ABOVE IT OR SMARTER THAN THOSE WHO CAME BEFORE THEM.
And you'll notice that those who think they are above it are GM, wot with building endless lineups of SUVs and products that compete with themselves.
...& that they may be, but they TOYO are not smart enough anymore becuse GM has alredy won the War, and is just starting little battles all over the place now to distract and divide TOYO's focus...they Never know which direction GM is gonna come at them from next anymore.
Even worse, they dont think it matters at all...LMAO.
Are you kidding? GM can't even remotely get its act together right now. Or maybe you just haven't seen the hundreds of thousands of jobs they've laid off over the past years.
THAT is why I am DOWN on TOYOTA.
Plus they just build UGLY FRIGGIN DESIGNS !!!...like Bad Music all day long.
UGH.
Ugh is damn right.
MRDETROITMETAL
01-19-2007, 06:13 PM
Quality of GM & toyopet cars ARE on par with each other according to actual consumer ratings. Even Toyo has to admit that. What you comments show is that you have not seen the latest figures, Chevy, caddilac & Buick are all on the same rating as toyo cars. That is Fact.
I NEVER said FORD sucks...as a matter of fact I think the new cars and designs from FORD are famtastic and I am glad to see them taking back thier direction in a postitive manner like this. They just have always been #2 behind GM, until Toyota took up that position a few years back.
The LOGIC of the "old FORD"....is the SAME logic that TOYOTA is NOW employing and it is doomed to fail against GM. You guts seem to think that all the "bloodletting" by GM is bad....it was the BEST thing in the word for the corporation, so dont be misled by the "press" and read into the financial statements and underlying government policies of BOTH GM & TOYOTA...and you will see that despite claims to the contrary GM is QUITE healthy right now, having "dumped the dead weight"...and is SELLING & PRODUCING new and desireable cars equal to the hightest level amounts the company has EVER produced !
RECORD LEVELS of sales & manufacture...over 9 million last year and the year before. THAT they also control well over 20% of WORLD MARKETSHARE is also a undeniable FACT. Dont underestimate GM is all I am saying AND that Toyota is highy overated in the recent market standings.
The real difference is in INTENT between the 2 companies.
Toyota intends to build appliances.
GM intends to build Automobiles.
I much prefer driving an automobile than a "toster", even if it has a CF hood, body kit and fancy rims !!!
As for "classic" status, there are NO classic cars from Japan at all. the 2000 gt mentioned is Bland as crap, the Mazda Miata was decent and a good design (one of my best friends was the desigener of it )...but Mazda is partly FORD anyway....toyo is a true Japanese company and will never be an American Company no matter how many plants and sales they have in the USA (despite Dale Jarret's claims to the oppisite...you know he took thier 20 million and bought a FORD GT with the first check !!!) At barret -jackson this week ALL the top selling cars are GM FORD & CHRYSLER products, not even ferrari, can make a dent in the demand for these cars today. and Toyotas are Banned from entry as they have NO Status or desireablity.
...or the "classic" toyotas have all meet the Junkyard Crusher already.
As for the Impala vs the Camry....I think that americans have answered that one and the IMPALA is the winner there....and the new Malibu is gonna make it even tougher for the Camry this year, plus the new IMPALA debuts this year too....bad bad news for Camry.
SupraMan22
01-19-2007, 09:09 PM
The real difference is in INTENT between the 2 companies.
Toyota intends to build appliances.
GM intends to build Automobiles.
If they intend to make automobiles they better kick it up a notch. Because i have seen nothing different happen. Toyota could make appliances and cars and still out sell GM.
The fact of the matter is, you will never come to senses with the car market. Toyota is a threat to GM and your scared by it. You know it is. Its not the 70's anymore man.
Oh and just for the record i believe base models for the camry and impala are quite different in price. The camry is about 3000 less than the impala. With the same features.
EDIT:
2007 Impala LS: 21,630
2007 Toyota Camry CE: 18,470
Oh the camry gets better MPG too, about 3 more.
So all the bulls@$% aside, you know nothing about cars. As your post above clearly states.
kingofthering
01-19-2007, 09:20 PM
o rly? Toyota 2000GTs go for at least $100K.
Drift Illusion
01-19-2007, 10:03 PM
Why is this in the Chop forum again? Because this is seriously off-topic.
MRDETROITMETAL
01-19-2007, 11:08 PM
If they intend to make automobiles they better kick it up a notch. Because i have seen nothing different happen. Toyota could make appliances and cars and still out sell GM.
The fact of the matter is, you will never come to senses with the car market. Toyota is a threat to GM and your scared by it. You know it is. Its not the 70's anymore man.
Oh and just for the record i believe base models for the camry and impala are quite different in price. The camry is about 3000 less than the impala. With the same features.
EDIT:
2007 Impala LS: 21,630
2007 Toyota Camry CE: 18,470
Oh the camry gets better MPG too, about 3 more.
So all the bulls@$% aside, you know nothing about cars. As your post above clearly states.
A threat to GM ???...no, just a challenge, and one that is being met head to head ;
The expansion of GM’s four global brands – Chevrolet, HUMMER, Saab and Cadillac – is showing concrete signs of success.
Global sales of GM’s value brand, Chevrolet, were 4.3 million vehicles compared with 2005 sales of 4.37 million. Chevrolet showed growth in all three regions outside North America, with the strongest performance in the Latin America, Africa and the Middle East region, with an additional 19 percent (144,000 vehicles) delivered over the 2005 level. Chevrolet also performed well in the Asia/Pacific region, which also was up 19 percent. There was a 15 percent increase in Chevrolet sales in Europe, compared with 2005. The Chevrolet Aveo helped Chevrolet field a strong competitor in the very competitive global small car market.
GM also retains its strong truck portfolio, evidenced by HUMMER sales that grew nearly 34 percent globally in 2006, with 82,000 vehicles delivered, compared with 61,000 in 2005. This performance was paced by the continued strength of the midsize H3. While much of this growth was in the United States (up 26 percent), HUMMER also saw significant expansion in Mexico and Canada.
Saab’s 2006 global sales set a record at more than 133,000 vehicles. Saab had its highest sales volume ever in Europe, exceeding 90,000 vehicles and record sales in Spain, Belgium and Canada.
Cadillac posted a sales increase outside of North America last year, thanks to 22 percent sales growth in Europe.
List price for a Impala LS is $ 20,945....
The Toyota Camry is $ 23, 540
Both are 3.5 6 cyl engines....heres the comparison data :
http://www.edmunds.com/apps/nvc/chevrolet/VehicleComparison?op=21&basestyleid=100757492&styleid=100640401&styleid=100699458&styleid=100566198&styleid=100624661
Now who is it that dont know diddly about cars ???:D ;)
Talk about gettin OWNED...you just did.
...& Drift ...This is NOT off topic at all, this is the RESPONSE from the original Chop I posted here.
But here ya go lets Keep it ON TOPIC here is aCHOP I did of the NEW 2007 IMPALA & as for the LOOKS...the Impala has alot more going for it IMO :
The_Canuck
01-19-2007, 11:14 PM
A threat to GM ???...no, just a challenge, and one that is being met head to head ;
Now who is it that dont know diddly about cars ???:D ;)
Talk about gettin OWNED...you just did.
...& Drift ...This is NOT off topic at all, this is the RESPONSE from the original Chop I posted here.
Lets use your own source against you:
http://www.edmunds.com/apps/nvc/chevrolet/VehicleComparison;jsessionid=Fxyfbn2C1gqBQyJFwvGRh ZmS2dLTn49Db85tPTjhVtZ66Lyyysfz!944631262?basestyl eid=100757492&styleid=100640401&styleid=100699458&styleid=100566198&styleid=100624661&maxvehicles=5&refid=&op=3&tab=features
Looks like the Camry has the Impala beat in most areas...well except for an optional engine block heater :rolleyes:
kingofthering
01-19-2007, 11:19 PM
Global sales of GM’s value brand, Chevrolet, were 4.3 million vehicles compared with 2005 sales of 4.37 million. [/COLOR][/I]
Uh...isn't 4.3 million less than 4.37 million?
The_Canuck
01-19-2007, 11:20 PM
Uh...isn't 4.3 million less than 4.37 million?
Fool, you do not understand logic...
MRDETROITMETAL
01-20-2007, 12:00 AM
LOL..those are production stats ....selling in the USA Impala has Camry beat, AND add in the Malibu to the mix then you have Camry way behind Chevy !!!:D ...and this is the OLD Mali in comparative !!!
http://www.edmunds.com/apps/nvc/chevrolet/VehicleComparison?op=21&basestyleid=100727015&styleid=100624661&styleid=100640408&styleid=100664764&styleid=100699458
Plus go compare the top line camry with the Impala SS, even with a V-8 delivering 27 mpg, it is a better value for the money and a real automobile too...;
http://www.edmunds.com/apps/nvc/chevrolet/VehicleComparison?op=21&basestyleid=100757496&styleid=100640408&styleid=100751679&styleid=100532627&styleid=100531256
Get Real World.
OPPS !....Camry is Not even in the same leauge as the Impala SS !!!
Serious which car would you rather be seen driving ?
Blitz_
01-20-2007, 12:12 AM
You should learn to READ before you go posting crap. I didn't compare anything to anything.
I realise that, even before I posted my reply before. However, stating you hate avalons then stating your favourites being the American HiPo models does make one chuckle when there is such a difference between the two. Its quite obvious a Corvette would be superior to an Avalon, regardless if you made a comparison or not. :D :rolleyes:
EDIT:
Oh. He got banned..well no real use of posting this reply was there :|
Blitz_
01-20-2007, 12:25 AM
Talk about gettin OWNED...you just did.
...& Drift ...This is NOT off topic at all, this is the RESPONSE from the original Chop I posted here.
But here ya go lets Keep it ON TOPIC here is aCHOP I did of the NEW 2007 IMPALA & as for the LOOKS...the Impala has alot more going for it IMO :
CCWcardesign? He's a chopper, did you chop an already chopped picture?!?
LOL
I mite give a tinker of to his site and have a look.
Which car would I rather drive?
..none.
Give me a Calais VE or FPV GT / Fairmont Ghia any day over any of those.
clutch-monkey
01-20-2007, 12:26 AM
LOL..those are production stats ....selling in the USA Impala has Camry beat, AND add in the Malibu to the mix then you have Camry way behind Chevy !!!:D ...and this is the OLD Mali in comparative !!!
http://www.edmunds.com/apps/nvc/chevrolet/VehicleComparison?op=21&basestyleid=100727015&styleid=100624661&styleid=100640408&styleid=100664764&styleid=100699458
Plus go compare the top line camry with the Impala SS, even with a V-8 delivering 27 mpg, it is a better value for the money and a real automobile too...;
http://www.edmunds.com/apps/nvc/chevrolet/VehicleComparison?op=21&basestyleid=100757496&styleid=100640408&styleid=100751679&styleid=100532627&styleid=100531256
Get Real World.
OPPS !....Camry is Not even in the same leauge as the Impala SS !!!
Serious which car would you rather be seen driving ?
i'd hate to be driving a camry as my sole vehicle, but i sure as shit would not want to drive a FWD V8. At least the camry makes no pretensions about being what it is...
Drift Illusion
01-20-2007, 12:38 AM
...& Drift ...This is NOT off topic at all, this is the RESPONSE from the original Chop I posted here.
But here ya go lets Keep it ON TOPIC here is aCHOP I did of the NEW 2007 IMPALA & as for the LOOKS...the Impala has alot more going for it IMO :
We had started talking about how Japanese cars were better than American cars and such... And this was supposed to be about a chop of a Camry. I think that is off topic.
MRDETROITMETAL
01-20-2007, 12:47 AM
CCWcardesign? He's a chopper, did you chop an already chopped picture?!?
LOL
yeah it was a "spyphoto" thing, but I saw the REAL Impala and just chopped in what I saw...the orig was a different grille treatment, perhaps accurate tho for a base model.:)
Look, NOBODY wants to drive a Camry.(at least not any of US here, that much I think we all agree upon....) & clutch If you have Never driven one then I would suggest that you do...it is much more better than you can imagine, ya cant tell it is a FWD car at all !!!....its a riot to drive really....303 HP and 27 MPG...hard combo to beat there !!!
BUT....alot of people WANT to drive IMPALAS !!...& Chevys in general because the have style, value and heritage.
Thats a hard combination to beat, & I give Toyo-let credit for making a go at it, BUT it aint gonna fly in the end.
That was my ENTIRE point here from the start. Thats whay I redid the new Camry to look more American in its design, because to ME, the design is its downfall...and has always been so, and I owned a 1996 Camry, and a 1994 Celica...both were decent cars until the Celica Blew A Engine...right after delaer maintenience had been done on it and the Camry threw a rod before 25000 miles hit !!!
Now that may say something about my driving style, more so than the cars...LOL, BUT my CHEVYS have NEVER complained and NEVER had such serious problems that took them off the road and into the junkyard.:eek:
..and Drift I have posted several more pictures and chops here to keep the FOCUS on the Images, but this is a compelling topic....and I see no conflict in posting disscussion comments as a result of a PS picture...matter of fact I encourage ANYONE to post THIER version of a new Camry or Impala or whatever that would sell in the standard 4-door sedan market here now !
I personally would LOVE to see what you all consider to be an acceptable STOCK PRODUCTION sedan !!!...
I really would like to SEE that !!!
Personally this has become one of the most interesting threads on the site IMO....& I thank ALL of you for your contributions, it is a GAS to read your comments !
.......???...anyone wanna SHOW me what ya got ?
clutch-monkey
01-20-2007, 12:58 AM
Look, NOBODY wants to drive a Camry.
i agree with you on this one, no car person would look foward to driving a camry
BUT....alot of people WANT to drive IMPALAS !!...& Chevys in general because the have style, value and heritage.
but this i don't get. the impala looks every bit the shopping trolley as the camry does. It has no style, they're as generic as each other, and at least the camry isn't a disgrace to an older model. plus, it has that stupid fwd V8 layout.
MRDETROITMETAL
01-20-2007, 01:20 AM
i agree with you on this one, no car person would look foward to driving a camry
but this i don't get. the impala looks every bit the shopping trolley as the camry does. It has no style, they're as generic as each other, and at least the camry isn't a disgrace to an older model. plus, it has that stupid fwd V8 layout.
I guess you missed my edit directed at you...GO DRIVE that "stupid" FWD V-8 setup, same as on the Grand Prix and Bonneville and Monte Carlo....I guarantee AFTER you do that you will NOT think it is stupid at all !!!...and this IS what American cars are all about too....because,
You'll be amazed at how smooth and powerful it is, & still pass by the gas pumps at full throttle !!!!;)
clutch-monkey
01-20-2007, 02:15 AM
I guess you missed my edit directed at you...GO DRIVE that "stupid" FWD V-8 setup, same as on the Grand Prix and Bonneville and Monte Carlo....I guarantee AFTER you do that you will NOT think it is stupid at all !!!...and this IS what American cars are all about too....because,
You'll be amazed at how smooth and powerful it is, & still pass by the gas pumps at full throttle !!!!;)
i don't have to, our V8's are still RWD thankfully :D :p toyota's on the other hand...
Blitz_
01-20-2007, 04:23 AM
Hah..stock production sedan?
Audi's, Saab's, beemers all look superior to anything from GM, even at a base sedan comparison.
From down under, ive said it before and ill say it again, both the falcon and commodore look much superior in stock form.
The impala's design is generic, boring, and underwhelming. It doens't appeal to me at all IMO.
MRDETROITMETAL
01-20-2007, 04:28 AM
ahhhm Blitz,......Sabb IS GM.......So is Holden.
?????
Clutch...you mean by "our"...british cars ?
like TVR, (owned by a russian group)....Aston Martin (owned by FORD)...or what ?
?????????
...or is this all just like the talking heads lyrics..."stop making sense, stop making sense"
oh yea I got a girlfriend, she's better than this....Chop Something !!!
Out of desperation I will post THIS then to get you going;
Blitz_
01-20-2007, 05:10 AM
Holden however design cars far and beyond above the general range of GM NA products :D
clutch-monkey
01-20-2007, 05:12 AM
Clutch...you mean by "our"...british cars ?
like TVR, (owned by a russian group)....Aston Martin (owned by FORD)...or what ?
first time i've heard england described as 'sub-tropical' :D
no - ford oz and holden make V8's in rwd, GM knows not to try and sell somethign so ludicrous as a bland looking fwd V8 here :D
acemotorsport
01-20-2007, 05:17 AM
first time i've heard england described as 'sub-tropical' :D
no - ford oz and holden make V8's in rwd, GM knows not to try and sell somethign so ludicrous as a bland looking fwd V8 here :D
no thats me saying stay the f*** out of aus
MRDETROITMETAL
01-20-2007, 05:23 AM
ah ..yes, that is why GM NA is now introducing all new V8 RWD cars for the USA, and losing almost ALL of the FWD stuff, they are even doing a small RWD car too...civic size.
of Course the drive mechanics are Zeta platform and much of that was developed in Aust....which has become the RWD center for GM worldwide, so this is a good thing & it is like I said before Toyo dont know which Direction GM is gonna come at them next....and it rerally does not matter because toyo cannot match GM in Worldwide resources or markets, much less with thier "CARS" vs Automobiles from GM.
GM has won the war. Now they can afford to start the battles. LOL> that is the premise from "the Art of War", a uh, japanese theroretical work published centuries ago.
Guess NOBODY in Toyota read that book huh ?
clutch-monkey
01-20-2007, 05:24 AM
ah ..yes, that is why GM NA is now introducing all new V8 RWD cars for the USA, and losing almost ALL of the FWD stuff, they are even doing a small RWD car too...civic size.
this is good news, but ideally they would have done it sooner... anway isn't the commodre the G8 for you guys now??
MRDETROITMETAL
01-20-2007, 06:36 AM
hmmm..well the G8 thing, thats supposed to be a secrect.
so c'mon dudes POST a Camry of your own here, no chop master quality required, just paint and paste some "sketch" of what you envision a decent camry to look like would be...
anyway, uh...heres 'nother fast rendidtion of a camry , I mean the car has potential to look OK...but as it is I just wanna puke whenever I see one ...
(which aint too often in S Fla thank god, we all drive Caddys and Corvettes down here !!!);
The_Canuck
01-20-2007, 09:14 AM
Look, NOBODY wants to drive a Camry.(at least not any of US here, that much I think we all agree upon....)
Thats why it sells much better then the Impala right?
BUT....alot of people WANT to drive IMPALAS !!...& Chevys in general because the have style, value and heritage.
Or perhaps because they're cheap?
Esperante
01-20-2007, 09:25 AM
Quality of GM & toyopet cars ARE on par with each other according to actual consumer ratings. Even Toyo has to admit that. What you comments show is that you have not seen the latest figures, Chevy, caddilac & Buick are all on the same rating as toyo cars. That is Fact.
No, it's not fact, it's a lie you made to make us think otherwise.
From the 2006 Consumer Reports Car Issue
BEST AND WORST MODELS IN RELIABILITY
MOST RELIABLE (In this section, Japanese cars are highlighted)
Small Cars
Toyota Prius
Toyota Corolla
Subaru Impreza (nonturbo)
Sporty Cars/Convertibles
Honda S2000
Lexus Sc430
Cheverolet Monte Carlo
Sedans
Lexus Gs3000/GS430
Infiniti M35/M45
Honda Accord Hybrid
SUVs
Lexus RX400h
Toyota Highlander
Honda CR-V
Minivans
Toyota Sienna
Pickups
Honda Ridgeline
Toyota Tundra
In case you haven't noticed, EVERY SINGLE CAR, with one GM exception, is Japanese. Four of them are Hondas, and eight of them are Toyotas or Toyota variants.
In case this isn't clear, I'll show you the other list.
LEAST RELIABLE (In this section, American cars are highlited)
Small Cars
Chevy Cobalt
Sporty Cars/Convertibles
VW New Beetle convertible
Mercedes Benz SL
Mercedes Benz CLK
Ford Mustang
Sedans
Jaguar S Type
Mercedes Benz E Class
Saab 9-3
SUVs
Infiniti QX45
VW Touareg
Nissan Armada
Minivans
Nissan Quest
Buick Terraza
Chevy Uplander
Pontiac Montana
Saturn Relay
Pickups
Nissan Titan
Chevy Colorado
GMC Canyon
Hmmm...somehow there were absolutely no Hondas or Toyotas on the second list...and GM managed to steal seven places. What is in your crazy ass backwards mind that is telling you for fact that Toyota and GM are equal in reliability?
Oh wait, that's right, reliability doesn't matter any more. Perhaps you'd like to see some other statistics.
MOST AND LEAST SATISFYING CARS
MOST SATISFYING(Japanese cars are highlited)
Coupes/Convertibles
Lexus SC430
Scion Tc
Sports Cars
Chevy Corvette
Ford Mustang (V8)
Honda S2000
MINI COOPER S
Subaru Impreza
Audi S4
Mercedes Benz SLK
Porsche 911 Carrera
Porsche Boxster
Small Cars
Toyota Echo
Mazda 3
Honda Civic Hybrid
Family Cars
Toyota Prius
Subaru Legacy GT
VW Passat TDI
Toyota Camry
Honda Accord
Honda Accord Hybrid
Wagons
Dodge Magnum
Scion xB
Large Cars
Toyota Avalon
Chrysler 300C
Upscale Cars
Acura TL
Acura TSX
Luxury Cars
Infiniti M35/M45
Lexus GS300/GS430
Lexus LS430
Audi A6
Small SUVs
Honda Element
Midsize SUVs
Lexus RX330
Lexus RX400h
Land Rover
Honda Pilot
Toyota 4Runner
Large SUVs
Toyota Land Cruiser
Lexus LX470
Minivans
Honda Odyssey
Toyota Sienna
Pickup Trucks
Honda Ridgeline
Toyota Tundra
Toyota Tacoma
Once again, Japanese companies sweep the board, with Honda taking in ten spots and Toyota taking in SIXTEEN places. GM racked a pitiful ONE for the Corvette!
LEAST SATISFYING (American cars are highlited)
Convertibles
Chrysler Sebring Convertible
Small Cars
Suzuki Aerio
Saturn Ion
Nissan Sentra
Mitsubishi Lancer (non Evolution)
Family Cars
Kia Optima
Pontiac Grand Prix (non supercharged)
Ford Taurus
Chrysler Sebring
Dodge Stratus
Small SUVs
Chevy Equinox
Suzuki XL-7
Mitsubishi Outlander
Minivans
Buick Terraza
Chevy Uplander
Pontiac Montana SV6
Saturn Relay
Chrysler Town & Country
Dodge Caravan
Pickup Trucks
Ford Ranger
Mazda B Series
GM takes eight places and Honda/Toyota take ZERO. You were saying?
BIGWORM_25
01-20-2007, 12:53 PM
Finally some real facts!! Amazing isnt it that the one and only (at least MOSTLY) un-biased magazine tells the truth!! And on top of that all you really have to do is look around anyway.Hell I live in South Carolina (hold your redneck jokes lol) and we are one of the biggest customers for G.M. especially Chevrolet and they are out numbered three to one by Accord Camry.My Father-In-Law has a 2006 Impala LS Leather Moonroof Six Disc etc.etc. and he HATES it.AND he went to trade it in on a CAMRY and they were only going to give him around $12,900 for it...and its only got 9200 miles or so!!!If that is "value" they can keep them.He paid like $19000 for it a little over a year ago so he kept it.When he asked the manager why it was such a low resale he was told because the used car market is FLOODED with them due to RENTAL companies.On top of the fact that the are one of the highest traded cars in the industry due to G.M. giving them away for 0% financing and $8000+ off the sticker for SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO long.And due to an accident I had in December I had the (ahem) "priveledge" to drive a Cobalt.What a piece of shit!!
SPHFerrari
01-20-2007, 04:15 PM
Interesting data Esperante. Looks like hard to argue with facts.
But, lets not forget, GM did take in a revenue of 192.6 billion dollars in 2006. This is a fact, according to CNN.
HOWEVER, their PROFITS, the only thing that is important to running a busines, amounted to -10.6 BILLION dollars. thats right, even though they brought in 192 billion, they spent 202 billion dollars, meaning they LOST MONEY. Their % change in profits from the 2004 fiscal year was -477.9%. Thats right, another negative number.
Their stock lost $18.69 per share in 2006.
http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune500/snapshots/563.html
Meanwhile, in 2006, Toyota brought in a revenue of 185.8 Billion dollars. Their total profits amounted to 12.1 Billion dollars. This is an 11.2% increase over the 2004 fiscal year.
http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/global500/2006/snapshots/1445.html
BIGWORM_25
01-20-2007, 11:09 PM
people are actually posting accurate ,informative information.Kudos guys.
MRDETROITMETAL
01-21-2007, 01:15 AM
Oh please not consumer reports !!!!...the most biased reporting of all...they were even cited for accepting payments from TOYOTA for good reviews...Please.
find a REAL source for actual owners surveys and that list is TOTALLY different with GM cars in the top of quaity ratings and satifaction !!
Try automobile mag...or even the aol autos...its a bit different there. Again CR started as a Appliance rating system and is really not qualified IMO to rate automobiles in a real world manner.
Stick to the facts:
But, lets not forget, GM did take in a revenue of 192.6 billion dollars in 2006. This is a fact, according to CNN.
Meanwhile, in 2006, Toyota brought in a revenue of 185.8 Billion dollars.
...uh thats quite a bit more than TOYOTA earned in my book, plus add in the capital investment cash and more cash from the sale of GMAC ...well, GM is in real good shape to squash Toyolet.
As for the financial statements I already said the GM is SPENDING most of the earnings to develop new models and integrate the World operations, so dont be misled by the numbers look at the coverage GM has in ALL the world markets and that they are selling well in every one. Thats the real GM at work. Plus remember that both cpmpanies have different reporting methods due to the government taxation rates in the Home country too, GM had greatly reduced thier taxation liabiity through this reporting method....and by allowing the stock price to lower below the level of "option" clauses in emplyment contracts they got rid of all those dead weight employees with NO futher liability to them either in stock nor benefits, plus saving the salary costs too...a very shrewd move on thier part there IMO.
All I said was DO NOT UNDERESTIMATE the General, they have resources far exceeding what is apparent from simple statements,...and are known for reinvesting HUGE sums to create new automobiles which is obviously working for them ...over 9 million cars sold in the last two consecutive years means that SOMEBODY and of alot of somebody's are BUYING GM all day long !!!
SPHFerrari
01-21-2007, 09:30 AM
OK, until you can provide sources for your so called facts, you sound like an idiot. show us where you heard consumer reports was accepting payments from anybody, or was not qualified to rate automobiles. after all, they arent rating them, they are collecting data from real, actual owners of these automobiles. back up your ludicrous statements with some facts, please.
...uh thats quite a bit more than TOYOTA earned in my book, plus add in the capital investment cash and more cash from the sale of GMAC ...well, GM is in real good shape to squash Toyolet.
the fact that you dont understand the difference between revenue and profits just adds fuel to my speculation that you dont actually run a successful business. but thats another story.
CNN's statisics (and dont start telling us CNN are all a bunch of liars and if we got the real facts it would show GM is teh coolest) show that while GM did bring in more cold hard cash, they spent more than that. This means, they made NEGATIVE MONEY.
Now, whether this is just warming up for some huge surge in sales, AND PROFITS, remains to be seen, but it is unlikely.
As for the financial statements I already said the GM is SPENDING most of the earnings to develop new models and integrate the World operations,
they didnt spend MOST of their earnings, they spent ALL of it and MORE.
.over 9 million cars sold in the last two consecutive years means that SOMEBODY and of alot of somebody's are BUYING GM all day long !!!
and every time one of these 9 million people bought one, GM lost money.
AND, lets not forget, GM's sales are gradually declining, while Toyota's are rising. General Motors is still on top, but if the current trend continues, it will not be long before Toyota overtakes it.
Now, dont make another post with statements that have no evidence to back them up. We all provided factual resources, with links, and you have just added your own speculation.
Heres what you set yourself up to show us sources for:
1. Consumer Reports is fraudulent, accepting payoffs from large corps.
2. Real sources show GM cars as being better quality and satisfaction than Toyota's
3. Evidence that GM is going to increase its revenue of its expenditure, making it a profitable company.
SupraMan22
01-21-2007, 09:50 AM
i took base line models off the actual web sites of the manufactors. BASE line. They have almost the same features. If you would actually read you would realise what i wrote. You are getting owned above, so i will let the pwning continue and not interupt. As for knowing anything, sorry i dont copy and paste.
if you drive a vette post it on here. if not your lying. which isnt a suprise
SPHFerrari
01-21-2007, 10:02 AM
Try automobile mag...or even the aol autos...its a bit different there.
Oh right, i forgot. Lets dig deaper, shall we.
http://autos.aol.com/article/general/v2/_a/most-and-least-reliable-cars/20061114143609990001
Japanese brands are still the ones to beat. Of the 47 vehicles with the highest predicted reliability, 39 are Japanese. Of those, all but seven are made by Toyota or Honda.
Esperante
01-21-2007, 10:19 AM
Oh please not consumer reports !!!!...the most biased reporting of all...they were even cited for accepting payments from TOYOTA for good reviews...Please.
Give me a source. In the meantime, I'll resort to making up bullshit for the sake of my cause.
GM kills babies in their sleep!
find a REAL source for actual owners surveys and that list is TOTALLY different with GM cars in the top of quaity ratings and satifaction !!
Erm, I gave you solid rankings on both reliability and satisfaction...if that doesn't amount to overall quality I don't know what does.
Try automobile mag...or even the aol autos...its a bit different there. Again CR started as a Appliance rating system and is really not qualified IMO to rate automobiles in a real world manner.
Erm, cars really shouldn't be treated much differently than appliances, if you ask me. An appliance is rated on value, satisfaction, quality and dependance, and I don't see why a car shouldn't be judged on the same conditions.
And, aside from that, it's absolutely ridiculous to say that just because CR started out grading appliances, they can't grade cars. Hell, Rolls Royce started out making airplane engines, thus, they must make really shitty cars!
Until you started posting evidence, I'm going to continue propogating GM bullshit.
Chevrolet had sex with Nissan in the bathroom at Junior Prom. The baby was Infiniti.
Stick to the facts:
But, lets not forget, GM did take in a revenue of 192.6 billion dollars in 2006. This is a fact, according to CNN.
Meanwhile, in 2006, Toyota brought in a revenue of 185.8 Billion dollars.
...uh thats quite a bit more than TOYOTA earned in my book, plus add in the capital investment cash and more cash from the sale of GMAC ...well, GM is in real good shape to squash Toyolet.
Goddamit! They aren't real facts! You're just spewing bullshit and claiming it as fact! SHOW US SOME GODDAM EVIDENCE AND SOURCES!
As for the financial statements I already said the GM is SPENDING most of the earnings to develop new models and integrate the World operations, so dont be misled by the numbers look at the coverage GM has in ALL the world markets and that they are selling well in every one. Thats the real GM at work. Plus remember that both cpmpanies have different reporting methods due to the government taxation rates in the Home country too, GM had greatly reduced thier taxation liabiity through this reporting method....and by allowing the stock price to lower below the level of "option" clauses in emplyment contracts they got rid of all those dead weight employees with NO futher liability to them either in stock nor benefits, plus saving the salary costs too...a very shrewd move on thier part there IMO.
It doesn't matter. Chrysler as able to turn a profit in the same country, same state, and same city, for that matter, and saying GM falls victim to all sorts of taxation etc. is just ludicrous. PLUS, Toyota has to pay incredibly high tariffs to ship over here, which is why many models (including the Camry) are built in the States. Thus, Toyota succumbs to these 'taxes' as well.
All I said was DO NOT UNDERESTIMATE the General, they have resources far exceeding what is apparent from simple statements,...and are known for reinvesting HUGE sums to create new automobiles which is obviously working for them ...over 9 million cars sold in the last two consecutive years means that SOMEBODY and of alot of somebody's are BUYING GM all day long !!!
'Obviously working for them?' If being eleven billion dollars in the red is sucess to you, you are far mistaken. Hell, I bet that if the GM executives announced GM was to fold and close down all plants, you'd say 'TEH GENERAL HAS TEH R0X0R UP ITS SLEEVE!111.' Stop wasting our time with your brainwashed nonsense.
Oh right, i forgot. Lets dig deaper, shall we.
http://autos.aol.com/article/general/v2/_a/most-and-least-reliable-cars/20061114143609990001
^^Results that are mirrored in this independant UK reliability study from Warranty Direct.
It’s rare that we look at product that has been in the marketplace for some time, much less second-hand product. But when we saw what this UK automotive warranty company was up to, we know you'll agree that it’s worth a mention. As a privately owned insurance intermediary, the firm collects lots of data about warranty issues – something you’ll never find out from the only other people who have access to the information (the manufacturers). In a very clever move, it has taken this secondary data and produced a reliability index – an independent comparison of frequency of failure across the 55,000 vehicles it insures. Read on for a list of the 100 most reliable used cars over the past decade
http://www.reliabilityindex.co.uk/tophundred.html?apc=3128339010848601
OFFICIAL: YOU CAN'T BEAT JAPANESE CAR RELIABILITY
Japanese manufacturers have dominated a poll of the Top 100 most reliable used cars over the past decade.
The list, compiled by independent mechanical breakdown insurer, Warranty Direct, found that every car in the Top 10, and an amazing 16 out of the Top 20, were Japanese models. The Honda Accord was at number one.
Congratulations to the Japanese automotive industry which supplied every car in the Top 10, and an amazing 16 of the Top 20.
And a very special mention to Toyota - Toyota has an ambition to become the world's largest motor company and on the results of this survey, it fully deserves to get there. It scored as well as any other manufacturer in the top ten cars with two contenders, but also took eleventh spot with the Lexus IS 200, fourteenth with the Landcruiser, 19th with the Carina E, and 21st with the Lexus 400 - six cars in the top 21 represents a fantastic effort but a look down the list confirms what we'd always suspected - they have been building the most reliable cars for a long time - long product lines such as the Celica and Corolla are also there. Those cars have been produced for 30 years in vast numbers - it's not just one very reliable model here and there.
MRDETROITMETAL
01-21-2007, 02:30 PM
Look Im not sayin that Japo cars are TOTAL SHIT. Just that GM is NOT, and GM IS a force to be recongnized as a MAJOR THREAT to Toyotas continued succsess.
Beleive wahtever BS you want, there are facts to support ANY viewpoint, but all are based upon looking Backwards
....the bottom line is that the PERCEPTION is the major hurdle that GM has to overcome in the USA market and they ARE doing that, they still make & sell more procuct worldwide than Toyota and thats all that really matters because it is Market Dominance.
Anybody who thinks that GM is just gonna Roll Over & Die because of Toyota's inroads in America is sadly off base. GM welcomes the challenge, and is More than capable of meeting Toyota head to head in Every World Market and garning its "fair share" of sales.
GM products are just as well made as any Toyota, and hell, 80% of the parts in both brands are made by the SAME suppliers anyway...so get off the Toyo bandwagon and relaize that the market saturation for Toyotas is Fast Approching...and the Rest of the World want nothing to do with them anymore. This is is natural the ebb and flow of the marketplace, as Ford discovered 100 years ago, people want MORE than just an appliance in thier autos and GM is the MASTER at providing exactly the Automobile that fits your needs and DESIRES.
(I mean who here would NOT want a Corvette or Camaro ? ...oh & I am not posting anymore personal info about me here because last time I did that it was used as fodder for further BS posts...so forget playin that crap with me. aint gonna happen you used up your ONE chance.)
So even if GM were to sell less cars than Toyolet, they wil still be able (and have already figured out how to win if that happens too), because as stated in the "turnaround plan" to earn greater profits within the next several model years, However with the current DEMAND for GM products with the manufacture volume sustaining at over 9 million a year I dont think they (GM) really have all that much to worry about !!!
Well, thats alot of people who dont buy Toyotas dudes !!
Esperante
01-21-2007, 02:37 PM
http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/3820/1152928504684wc9.jpg
MRDETROITMETAL
01-21-2007, 02:46 PM
LOL ^^^^....and it aint Sushi !!!
Esperante
01-21-2007, 02:48 PM
http://cache.bordom.net/images/188ab86fb3970dfaeae5ea0cde609490.jpg
MRDETROITMETAL
01-21-2007, 02:50 PM
Lmao !!!!!
SPHFerrari
01-21-2007, 02:59 PM
you, sir, have an extremely warped perception of reality.
MRDETROITMETAL
01-21-2007, 03:22 PM
you, sir, have an extremely warped perception of reality.
OK, ...well we will just have to wait and see if that is so, HUH ?:D
Mark my words.;)
SPHFerrari
01-21-2007, 03:25 PM
nobody came out and said GM sucks, theyre going under! toyota is the best in the world!
YOU came out and started spewing made up stats about how GM is the best and will never be overtaken.
We will just have to wait and see i guess.
The_Canuck
01-21-2007, 03:34 PM
I nominate this thread for 0wnage of the year - 2007
Also, nice job with the cats...:)
MRDETROITMETAL
01-21-2007, 04:24 PM
nobody came out and said GM sucks, theyre going under! toyota is the best in the world!
YOU came out and started spewing made up stats about how GM is the best and will never be overtaken.
We will just have to wait and see i guess.
Dude GM is FAR from going under and Toyolet SUCKS outright as a company and with its products IMO.
GM IS RIGHT NOW & for the majority of Automotive History the #1 auto maker in the World. Dont expect that to change.
This is FACT.
Now Thats being OWNED. Toyota is #2...the First LOSER. Thats FACT.
SPHFerrari
01-21-2007, 04:42 PM
ok. first of all, i didnt say they were going under, i was saying nobody came out and said that, you started attacking toyota for no reason, with unfounded arguments.
According to you, toyota is number 2 right now. i agree. right now GM is still number one and toyota number 2. this is far from toyota sucking as a company.
we provided facts that shot down any argument you presented. you presented personal opinions and lies. thats being owned. i dont feel the need to argue any more, because anyone who just read this thread can come to their own conclusion.
SPHFerrari, out.
Drift Illusion
01-21-2007, 05:22 PM
So all this sprouts from the chop of a Camry. Or was it because of the fact that it was spelt wrong?
MRDETROITMETAL
01-21-2007, 05:25 PM
^^^^probably...lol.
But then maybe I did it intentionally ...maybe???.
SPH - "we provided facts that shot down any argument you presented. you presented personal opinions and lies. thats being owned. i dont feel the need to argue any more, because anyone who just read this thread can come to their own conclusion."
While I agree that people Should draw their own concludsions, I did present ALOT more than just my personal Opinion....Factual reports & articles that supported my POV. In the final result it is a matter of personal peference, I prefer a company that works under American traditions and competes to win despite obvious disadvantages, the FACT the GM REMAINS #1 in spite of this says it ALL....
...& that is being OWNED big time.
GM OWNS #1.
I rest my case.
Pando
01-21-2007, 06:02 PM
GM has won the war. Now they can afford to start the battles. LOL> that is the premise from "the Art of War", a uh, japanese theroretical work published centuries ago.
Guess NOBODY in Toyota read that book huh ?Another subject you know nothing about I see. Sun Tzu was Chinese. I'm sure you haven't read that book, as your knowledge about it is even more inaccurate than your knowledge of the automobile industry.
I mean who here would NOT want a Corvette or Camaro ?
That would be me for 1.
....the bottom line is that the PERCEPTION is the major hurdle that GM has to overcome in the USA market and they ARE doing that, they still make & sell more procuct worldwide than Toyota and thats all that really matters because it is Market Dominance.
Market dominance may be achievable by massive discounts and loss making.
This is a very short term action, as there is only so long till the banks get fed up and place the company in receivership.
As another point "The Art of War" is not theoretical, Sun Tzu was possibly the greatest general of the time and this was how he worked.
The_Canuck
01-21-2007, 06:08 PM
Another subject you know nothing about I see. Sun Tzu was Chinese. I'm sure you haven't read that book, as your knowledge about it is even more inaccurate than your knowledge of the automobile industry.
I read three quarters of that book...then thought why the hell am I reading this? :p
kingofthering
01-21-2007, 06:11 PM
Dude GM is FAR from going under and Toyolet SUCKS outright as a company and with its products IMO.
GM IS RIGHT NOW & for the majority of Automotive History the #1 auto maker in the World. Dont expect that to change.
This is FACT.
Now Thats being OWNED. Toyota is #2...the First LOSER. Thats FACT.
This guy is like Ferrari prinze except for GM cars.
Please, MRDETROITMETAL, GM is going to hell. They had the chance to save their ass with the Solstice but failed, and all their hopes are resting on the Camaro, which they will promptly screw up by building 10,000 for 20,000 customers.
Pando
01-21-2007, 06:29 PM
I read three quarters of that book...then thought why the hell am I reading this? :p
I found it a good read, and a must have in the bookshelf. It's packed with excellent quotes. I don't assume everyone to be interested in it, but it's always good to know some good old military strategy. ;) It has been said that it can easily be applied to various non war situations as well, which I was skeptic about at first but found it to be true.
acemotorsport
01-21-2007, 06:35 PM
GM OWNS #1. [/B]
I rest my case.
get f*ck gm (usa) cars all suck exept for the suvs and trucks
BIGWORM_25
01-21-2007, 06:44 PM
This guy is like Ferrari prinze except for GM cars.
Please, MRDETROITMETAL, GM is going to hell. They had the chance to save their ass with the Solstice but failed, and all their hopes are resting on the Camaro, which they will promptly screw up by building 10,000 for 20,000 customers.
No...they will build a million for 250000 customers flooding the market and the first few suckers....errrm....PEOPLE that buy one will pay twice the sticker and be stuck with a worthless hunk.THE MUSCLE CAR ERA IS D-E-A-D it is done.No more C.O.P.O.,Yenko,no REAL shelby cars....and even Ford GTs and Z06 vettes are not as popular as they used to be.YES they sold a V.I.N. 0000001 Shelby GT 500 at BARRETT JACKSON...so what.Rich people arent always the most careful with their money are they?5 million for that supersnake?Why...so it can sit in a museum/garage and collect dust.I personally would LOVE a 1970 Chevelle SS LS6...NOT restored just a nice driver.BUT if chevrolet built a new version Chevelle with the Z06 drivetrain I wouldnt touch it with a ten foot pole.100,000 mile warranties dont make a good car....knocking thousands off the sticker price doesnt make a good car,It would be an overproduced,overpriced brick.Just like the new GTO.the Interior of a Z06 Corvette looks cheap...Mrdetroitmental look in your holy car magazines about that fact.Is it fast YES is it special...maybe...will a daily driven Z06 ever be held in high regards with collectors and enthusiast like a 1968/69 Camaro?NO.The HHR was a flop so was the GTO and the Solstice...the Camaro will be too.People will buy the hell out of them yes then before the final payment is in the mail it will become all too true to the people that bought them....it will be a rattle trap with no resale value no importance to real car guys and by then when all the G.M. dealerships are closed collecting dust...they will have to drive to thier closest TOYOTA dealership to trade it in on a real car.Lookat the "new" Mustang...lol..you couldnt find a GT when they first came out now...the dealerships cant move them...hilarious and just like I said all the people who had to have one first...well they got ripped a new one.True that Honda and Toyota dont take risks like the American companies..they dont have to.
kingofthering
01-21-2007, 06:49 PM
Can you split it into paragraphs? It's a bit hard to read, BIGWORM_25
Esperante
01-21-2007, 08:42 PM
I did present ALOT more than just my personal Opinion....Factual reports & articles that supported my POV.
I did not have sexual relations with that women.
You posted nothing! Are you joking? You posted nothing but sprawline rants of claims, but no evidence whatsoever!
BIGWORM_25
01-21-2007, 09:16 PM
Can you split it into paragraphs? It's a bit hard to read, BIGWORM_25
Are you referring to my lack of proper structure?Its easy to read it.Im just not that concerned with proper grammar and paragraph structure.
MRDETROITMETAL
01-21-2007, 10:15 PM
LOL....you guys are brainwashed.
today 2 Corvettes (one a IRL pace car the other a Safety car from LeMans sold at B-J for 40,000 each and they were basic stock corvettes of recent date, thats the same price the were made for and sold at delaers 5 years ago when threy were new)...& well lets not even mention that ALL of the top selling automobiles at B-J were from DETROIT !!!!
The Solstice has OUTSOLD the MX-5 and repalced it as the #1 sports car of choice, the GM Trucks are selling as fast as GM can make them and Hummer is the fastest growing brand EVER in the history of aurtomobiles !!!
Caddy, Sabb, Chevrolet & Hummer all have reached New record sales worldwide...go back and READ the threads I posted here providing exact evidence of this.
your entitled to IGNORE the facts I provided and sluff them off as BS if ya want to, but GM is STILL #1, and YOU cannot change THAT.
OWNAGE.
hey look ...you all may not like American Football either and prefer "Soccer" but you dont see me berating you for supporting your domestic brand of anything, just that I see it from my POV, and that is;
GM is the worlds largest and best automobile company....and the beat goes on :
http://www.leftlanenews.com/2007/01/19/chevy-volt-receives-unexpected-fanfare/
BIGWORM_25
01-21-2007, 11:02 PM
http://www.autooninfo.info/AutoonInfo/TheGreatGulf.htm
Check out these charts...
and this...http://www.autooninfo.info/NAEd200408GMRecallsRollOn.htm
while your at it...http://www.autooninfo.info/NAEd200503CROwnerSatQuickPicks.htm
and...http://www.autooninfo.info/NAEd200504FlopSurveyGM.htm
last one for now...http://www.autooninfo.info/NAEd200602MoodysCutsGMDebtDeeper.htm
ahhh what the hell...one more..http://www.autooninfo.info/NAEd2007012006USAutoSales.htm
MRDETROITMETAL
01-22-2007, 02:22 AM
Ye gads...that has to be the most biased site I have ever seen !!!...loads of crap, old data and out of touch with real recent developments in both GM & Ford not to mention Chrysler crap they even take potshots at BMW !!!...ya cant really buy into that ???
"the reliable two"...gimme a break, any site that lists data that way is suspect from the getgo.
Blitz_
01-22-2007, 02:31 AM
What the hell? why have you posted the same reply like 7 times?
..someone ban this ignorant, arrogant individual before he looks like more the fool than what he is now.
How do you define best?
Is GM the best automobile manufacturer and business because it is in Debt, has low reliability in its cars and losing market share? Thats quite an extreme definition for "best".
MRDETROITMETAL
01-22-2007, 04:48 AM
oh shit...my computer was hanging up, so for some reason it posted all that, I only meant for ONE !!!
Sorry bout that, dunno what happend there really.
...as for you comment, look Ive said what I have to say here...it is really what is BEST for GM at this point, and I think they ARE on the right track to sustain "The Real GM", as the continuing leader of World Automobile maunfacturing and design. I dont see that all the Hoopla is anything that GM cannot overcome in short order. they are alot more resourceful and powerful than your giving them credit for, this I understand as I grew up in Detroit and know the People behind GM. They are not quitters, and they are very tough minded individuals capable of pulling GM back to where it has earned the right to be;
@ #1. NOTHING says otherwise that I have seen.
BIGWORM_25
01-22-2007, 05:38 AM
I grew up in Detroit and know the People behind GM.
That explains it all.
I think they ARE on the right track to sustain "The Real GM", as the continuing leader of World Automobile maunfacturing and design.
You can keep thinking that all you like, but they lead on neither design, nor manufacturing.
Design is is lead by companies like Ferrari (Fiat), Aston Martin (Ford) Pagani, and Koenigsegg.
Manufacturing is lead by companies like Toyota - total units moved here doesn't matter, profits do, that is how manufacturing companies are measured.
Rockefella
01-22-2007, 06:28 AM
GM's going to shit. Kerkorian pulled out his massive share in the stock, something like 21% of GM, they release boring and unworthy sedans that fail to sell, and they spent a massive amount of time and money in the GMT900 truck platform, instead of using the research and development into making a bread and butter car.
Oh well, I was never a fan of GM really, except for my Bonneville of course.
fpv_gtho
01-22-2007, 06:54 AM
Manufacturing is lead by companies like Toyota - total units moved here doesn't matter, profits do, that is how manufacturing companies are measured.
Not to mention their flexible manufacturing strategies. IIRC, most of their plants are able to be specced to produce any model in their range.
Esperante
01-22-2007, 10:37 AM
LOL....you guys are brainwashed.
today 2 Corvettes (one a IRL pace car the other a Safety car from LeMans sold at B-J for 40,000 each and they were basic stock corvettes of recent date, thats the same price the were made for and sold at delaers 5 years ago when threy were new)...& well lets not even mention that ALL of the top selling automobiles at B-J were from DETROIT !!!!
Super. GM built a car worth $40k.
The Solstice has OUTSOLD the MX-5 and repalced it as the #1 sports car of choice, the GM Trucks are selling as fast as GM can make them and Hummer is the fastest growing brand EVER in the history of aurtomobiles !!!
It only exceeded MX-5 sales for one month. As well, the MX-5 has sold tens of thousands more for the past 16 years than GM could ever dream of. And that doesn't change the fact that the Miata is a far superior car.
Caddy, Sabb, Chevrolet & Hummer all have reached New record sales worldwide...go back and READ the threads I posted here providing exact evidence of this.
Maybe if you GAVE us some evidence you'd be able to show it.
your entitled to IGNORE the facts I provided and sluff them off as BS if ya want to, but GM is STILL #1, and YOU cannot change THAT.
Nobody is entitled to ignore facts, which is exactly that which you have done over the ocurse of your stay on this website.
OWNAGE.
1337!!111OMG r0x0R1!!!
First of all, you can't call ownage. Ownage just happens. It doesn't work when you exclaim 'ownage,' particularily when something like your posts conveniently blow up in your face.
hey look ...you all may not like American Football either and prefer "Soccer" but you dont see me berating you for supporting your domestic brand of anything, just that I see it from my POV, and that is;
GM is the worlds largest and best automobile company....and the beat goes on :
GM is the world's largest automobile company...but China is the biggest country in the world. Does that necessarily translate into responsibility, quality and satisfaction?
http://www.leftlanenews.com/2007/01/19/chevy-volt-receives-unexpected-fanfare/
Finally, some 'evidence,' even though it's not a particularily great source. Lamentably, the attached article has no relevance to your posts, it just reflects some excitement surrounding a GM concept car.
MRDETROITMETAL
01-22-2007, 04:36 PM
hey..all i know is that ya all shoulda bought GM stock a year ago instead of that new Camry....cuz if you had you could buy a house with the profits !!!!...like about 12 bucks a share !!!..from 20 to 32...so measure that, cuz it appears to me that seems to be profitable operation with great protential dividends.
Esperante
01-22-2007, 04:58 PM
Erm, I thought GM shares nosedived almost $20 a share last year...
SupraMan22
01-22-2007, 05:04 PM
hes quite idiotic eh? can't believe hes still ranting, what a nOoB
SupraMan22
01-22-2007, 05:08 PM
No...they will build a million for 250000 customers flooding the market and the first few suckers....errrm....PEOPLE that buy one will pay twice the sticker and be stuck with a worthless hunk.THE MUSCLE CAR ERA IS D-E-A-D it is done.No more C.O.P.O.,Yenko,no REAL shelby cars....and even Ford GTs and Z06 vettes are not as popular as they used to be.YES they sold a V.I.N. 0000001 Shelby GT 500 at BARRETT JACKSON...so what.Rich people arent always the most careful with their money are they?5 million for that supersnake?Why...so it can sit in a museum/garage and collect dust.I personally would LOVE a 1970 Chevelle SS LS6...NOT restored just a nice driver.BUT if chevrolet built a new version Chevelle with the Z06 drivetrain I wouldnt touch it with a ten foot pole.100,000 mile warranties dont make a good car....knocking thousands off the sticker price doesnt make a good car,It would be an overproduced,overpriced brick.Just like the new GTO.the Interior of a Z06 Corvette looks cheap...Mrdetroitmental look in your holy car magazines about that fact.Is it fast YES is it special...maybe...will a daily driven Z06 ever be held in high regards with collectors and enthusiast like a 1968/69 Camaro?NO.The HHR was a flop so was the GTO and the Solstice...the Camaro will be too.People will buy the hell out of them yes then before the final payment is in the mail it will become all too true to the people that bought them....it will be a rattle trap with no resale value no importance to real car guys and by then when all the G.M. dealerships are closed collecting dust...they will have to drive to thier closest TOYOTA dealership to trade it in on a real car.Lookat the "new" Mustang...lol..you couldnt find a GT when they first came out now...the dealerships cant move them...hilarious and just like I said all the people who had to have one first...well they got ripped a new one.True that Honda and Toyota dont take risks like the American companies..they dont have to.
if the muscle car era is done, why is gm still trying to bring it back?
EDIT: i dont understand where you are going with that honestly
Esperante
01-22-2007, 05:09 PM
Because Ford did it quite nicely with the Mustang.
acemotorsport
01-22-2007, 05:12 PM
if the muscle car era is done, why is gm still trying to bring it back?
because there dickheads
Esperante
01-22-2007, 05:16 PM
That, too.
SupraMan22
01-22-2007, 05:20 PM
Because Ford did it quite nicely with the Mustang.
GM will never be Ford. I meen first assembly line, if it wasnt for Ford, GM would be trying model glue thier cars together Wait now that i think of it they still might. :D
On a serious note, the new chevys look like the new F series. Maybe they are following in the tracks of ford.
BIGWORM_25
01-22-2007, 05:27 PM
if the muscle car era is done, why is gm still trying to bring it back?
EDIT: i dont understand where you are going with that honestly
"they" being G.M. is putting all their eggs in the Camaro basket basically...And the whole thing I posted well it was more or less a rant...lol.
I absolutely LOVE Muscle Cars...but there will never EVER be another "Muscle Car " era.And Ford mustangs are barely moving now.Ive got one of the largest ford dealerships in the south east like ten minutes from my house and they have had the same Mustangs for at least 60-90 days.I was just saying that the first group of people that will put down deposits on a new Camaro will be sadly dissapointed when another million people have a car JUST LIKE THEIRS and got them WAY cheaper.
SupraMan22
01-22-2007, 07:31 PM
your telling the truth there.
MRDETROITMETAL
01-23-2007, 01:11 AM
well...I really dont care if you all dont see it, more for me.
My GM stock is about to be doubled from where I bought it last year, My corvettes run hard and fast, the GMC truck is now at over 250,000 miles with not ONE problem at all....and my boat has 2 chevy 350's...no problems there and it is 10 years old !!!...my girlfriend's Mustang is also 10 years old, & no problems there either !!...and it was a Hertz rental car first off too !...Value and reliability are actually hallmarks of American products...and these times are no threat to innovation or manufacture of US products.
OK, so they make Buicks in China now,...& they make Toyotas in Ohio or some shit too...so what ? I really dont care where a "car" is made, but I do care about the Company that produces that car, and Toyo cant cut it. Thier cars look like crap, are not built any better than most cars, and I can not justify supporting toyota as a company, tho I am sure they dont need me...they got lotsa suckers already !!
...and Bigworm, "when your stupid enough to pay 35,000 bucks for a sedan that cant get out of its own way and looks like hell warmed over anyway...well ...your just stupid"....."& when you paid 60,000 bucks for the same crappy car, ...your driving a Lexus !!!"
So you may ask me "if GM is so friggin great, why then are they seemingly in such shit ?"
simple, thay are fighting a government admisitration that is addicted to OIL, and making money First at the price of Killing our children to do it too, so if the present government in the USA dose not give a damn about the population, why would they care about the car you buy ?
they dont so long as you buy one...any one as long as it uses GAS & OIL.
Why do you think the "VOLT" caused such a stir...it goes against 100 years of auto manufacture and government practice here !!!...and truthfully most Americans cant wait to get rid of the OIL companies anyway...and "DUBBA-U"...get ready for the first FEMALE President of the USA !!!
Toyota supports the Staus Quo, because they make money from it, but it is costing americans thier livleyhood, thier lifestyles and thier family members...I dont see this continuing and GM is taking a RESPONSIBLE direction in hand and CREATING REAL ALTERNATIVES to Toyotas standard practice...even GM's Flex Fuel cars are better than a "Hybrid" toyota !!!...and the BIG TRUCKS have these engines too !!...and America EATS up Trucks to the tune of Millions a year !
Anyway, it is time for a POSITIVE change in our culture, and GM is again leading the way in the aera of Automobiles !
simple, thay are fighting a government admisitration that is addicted to OIL, and making money First at the price of Killing our children to do it too, so if the present government in the USA dose not give a damn about the population, why would they care about the car you buy ?
they dont so long as you buy one...any one as long as it uses GAS & OIL.
MDM did you see that recent doccu-movie 'Who killed the electric car' ? Worth a look imo, I was quite enlightened by it :)
Why do you think the "VOLT" caused such a stir...it goes against 100 years of auto manufacture and government practice here !!!...and truthfully most Americans cant wait to get rid of the OIL companies anyway...and "DUBBA-U"...get ready for the first FEMALE President of the USA !!!
Let's hope so mate .. either her or that intruiging black guy Obama :cool:
BIGWORM_25
01-23-2007, 11:33 AM
Mrdetroitmental why are you even harping on about that SHOWCAR?The battery that it needs to be fully functional HASNT EVEN BEEN MADE YET...G.M. is wanting the U.S. government to do the r&d for it...lol.Dont believe me Im sure...Google.com...find out for yourself.G.M. is eventually going to have to ask the feds for help.Its just a matter of time.
Esperante
01-23-2007, 01:29 PM
MDM, I'm not going to bother responding to your posts because it's quite clear you give no credence whatsoever to any evidence or even opinion. Everything you talk above has already been covered and refuted. I'm done wasting my time here.
MRDETROITMETAL
01-23-2007, 04:40 PM
Well I agree the US Government needs to support balancing the trade disadvantages that US automakers must overcome and assist in the REAL development of alternative energy infastructure and technology, much better pursuits than an Illeagal and unsantioned War to steal Oil from other countries, IMO.
GM has the right Idea with the Volt, and flexfuel too..of course other Import companies dont care because they have nothing at risk as long as the staus quo remains as is.
The Us Government IS responsible for creating the present situation with American Auto makers, by allowing import companies to trade at below market level prices, and that has in turn degraded the entire workforce in America. But it did start with the "Big 3" being left out in the cold by the government insistence that "free trade" continue as is, copurse now it is obvious that it was "unfair trade" and there was nothing FREE about it at all.
Toyota and other import companies used the freedoms of America and the Greed of the population to take full advantage of the marketplace in thier favor, and because the money was flowing, nobody defended the domestic car companies and workers, ...now the price is being paid for that in lost marketshare and jobs and finally it is costing the Government too in reduced tax revenue and trade deficts, so NOW they are willing to step in and make some changes...lets hope so anyway.
The Main point here tho, and there can be no agrument about it is that all car companies use the SAME suppliers basically the Same technology, and the same manufacturing methods, so even the worst cars made are far better than they ever have been in reliability and there really is no Difference from brand to brand, its all just hype and marketing.
The real difference is DESIGN and feel of the vehicles, the performance, utility, comfort and efficent operation are set at various levels by arrangement of similar componets by ALL manufacturers.
The FACT remains that GM is still the BEST at doing this to meet ALL the World Markets and that is Why they are # 1.
Esperante
01-23-2007, 04:46 PM
No, it's not. They're number one because decades ago they were one of the only options for a market which had been previously unexplored. They were able to build an empire by providing cars in a world where few others could exist, and in which there were few other options. They are number one now because of that power they created early in the 20th century. If there had been Japanese companies selling in America in 1920 I'm pretty sure GM certainly wouldn't be sitting on top.
Basically, just because some average Joe could start a sucessful car company in 1900 and not the average Joe in 2007 doesn't mean Joe 2007 is a total failure, incompetent loser and stupid idiot.
kingofthering
01-23-2007, 04:50 PM
er...Why would the import carmakers want to screw the American market? They won't want to miss an opportunity to make $. Hell, Toyota produced the first mass-produced hybrid, the Prius, and it seems they're the only ones trying to sell useful hybrids.
Don't forget the hydrogen vehicles.
by allowing import companies to trade at below market level prices
Go back to school. You are obviously and idiot or troll.
If Toyota is trading below market prices how are they so profitable?
SPHFerrari
01-23-2007, 06:57 PM
so the government is helping toyota cheat, and Toyota is at fault for taking advantage of a market where they can make money? is that really your argument against them?
so even the worst cars made are far better than they ever have been in reliability and there really is no Difference from brand to brand, its all just hype and marketing.
so all the reports from all the groups that rate car reliablility are just hype and marketing?
As Esperante said, GM is number one becase they still have 400 billion dollars that theyve made in the last 100 years. unfortunately, they are losing money in the tens of billions every year, while toyota is gaining money in the tens of billions. GM sells more cars, and loses more money, toyota sells less cars and makes more money. I dont see what you are possibly arguing about. the only thing you have right is that GM sold more cars than toyota last year. thats it. number of sales yes. profits? hell no.
The_Canuck
01-23-2007, 07:00 PM
Toyota produced the first mass-produced hybrid, the Prius, and it seems they're the only ones trying to sell useful hybrids.
Prius was not first, pretty sure the Insight came before it...also Honda makes some good Hybrids.
MRDETROITMETAL
01-23-2007, 10:05 PM
You can live by numbers and opinions or by attitude and knowelge, if you precieve my thoughts to not be based in real understandings thats your progitive, I can say the same regarding many comments here too, esp the most recent ones that GM is living off past succsess from 100 years ago...No GM has Built a world corpopration in THIS century by consiladating all of it's various operations into ONE GM, that produces a great variety of products for Every market and occupys top or at least leading positions sales in all of those markets !...that is what Keeps GM at #1. The current restructuring of GM is starting to make the company even more powerful and capable to sustain and increase its profits, sales and operations. the Main problem is ATTITUDE and Perceptions that GM has to overcome, as many of you have so aptly demonstrated here with your comments.
Look here is an "observation" I have noticed, and it is not a bonefide statistical report but it does IMO reflect the Attitude of the different buyers of these "cars" from both companies, and in this respect Toyota may be correct that they do indeed sell to a different customer tham GM....:
When I walk my Dog and I am 6 ft tall, he is a 75 lb Pit Bull..we sometimes walk along the median strip on the Blvd...this is a quiet neighborhood with local traffic only, BUT...EVERY time an American car passes by us the drivers pull away a foot or two in order to give us room, even tho there are 2 lanes in both directions, however whenever a Japansese car comes by the drivers dont budge an inch, it is as if we are not even SEEN by them. This happens EVERY time too, without exception. WHY ?
To me it is an indication of the types of buyers, american car owners buy a car to DRIVE, japanese (asian) buyers get a car to go somewhere and care less about driving...they just wanna get where there goin, no matter.
Certianly, the drivers (obviously this is a broad generalization) of American cars are more aware and courtious if nothing else in thier driving practices and perhaps they care more about the car they are driving too. I know it's a little thing to mention but IMO it is Very Revelaing with regards to the kinds of buyers each type of car appeals to. Buying a car is an emotional experience, not just based on numbers and proven facts or opinion....tho for many it seems that they have lost that emotional desire towards the type of car they are driving. They just dont care, and the way they drive shows exactly that same attitude !!
It's just sumpin to think about thats not up for arguement.
Esperante
01-24-2007, 04:18 PM
When I walk my Dog and I am 6 ft tall, he is a 75 lb Pit Bull..we sometimes walk along the median strip on the Blvd...this is a quiet neighborhood with local traffic only, BUT...EVERY time an American car passes by us the drivers pull away a foot or two in order to give us room, even tho there are 2 lanes in both directions, however whenever a Japansese car comes by the drivers dont budge an inch, it is as if we are not even SEEN by them. This happens EVERY time too, without exception. WHY ?
Never mind. You're absolutely right. All American drivers are courteous, respectful, homy and nice, and import drivers are rude, mean, arrogant, disrespectful and ignorant. You win. :rolleyes:
If that's a valid argument I'd say the biggest detriment that American cars have going for them is that YOU drive one of them.
God, shut up!
[When I walk my Dog and I am 6 ft tall, he is a 75 lb Pit Bull..we sometimes walk along the median strip on the Blvd...this is a quiet neighborhood with local traffic only, BUT...EVERY time an American car passes by us the drivers pull away a foot or two in order to give us room, even tho there are 2 lanes in both directions, however whenever a Japansese car comes by the drivers dont budge an inch, it is as if we are not even SEEN by them. This happens EVERY time too, without exception.
It is one of the funniest arguements I've heard from you.
Now, seriously, do you realy think that American government (government of one of the strongest and richest empires in the world) is stupid enough to destroy it's own heavy industry by supporting other country's industry?
I don't realy know what happens now in US, but in european countries, where industry exists, government makes everything to support it, lower taxes, etc. Cause the part of money from sells goes to country's budget (that's how tax system works)
Now explain me what is the reason for US government to support Toyota's sales? :/
SupraMan22
01-25-2007, 01:58 PM
road = cars
sidewalk = walking, hints the name sidewalk.
your dee dee dee. seriously you dont even have anything logical to say, never have and possibly never will. On these pages atleast.
MRDETROITMETAL
01-25-2007, 02:43 PM
All I am saying is the US Government does NOT support the US auto companies who do operate under a disadvantage to other car compainies whose home governments are actually partners in the export of thier products. Why the US government does not do more to even out the balance of trade is prb due to the fact that they are making money from imports and the dealers that sell them and the factories and ...so its basically GREED & stupidity ruling the trade markets here.
The result of allowing so called "free trade" has become pretty apparent that it is to the determent of US auto makers though, who have higher costs to overcome in the manufacture of thier products and have to take a loss to compete in the present market here.
The resturcturing at Ford & GM is currently the only manner that those companies can hope to resolve the situation and that also means they will be building factories and cars in OTHER countries...and the US labor force and cities lose out on futher industry from American auto makers. In turn the States have little option but to grant consessions to entice Import companies to build there and hire people at reduced wages. Of course this reduces the revenues to the federal government, but having allowed the weaking of the domestic manufactuers the revenues have been going down anyway, so they fuel the continuation of import companies market advantages, by encouraging consessions,but then they have to just to get people back into a JOB !!!
....its a sad state of affairs. Brought on by our own actions.
kingofthering
01-25-2007, 04:27 PM
basically GREED & stupidity ruling the trade markets here.
Or capitalism.
MRDETROITMETAL
01-25-2007, 05:19 PM
^^^ more likely that it is the abuse of Capitalism !!
kingofthering
01-25-2007, 05:24 PM
Mr Detroit Metal, you neglect the fact that HUMANS buy these cars. We don't hate GM to make ourselves feel better, or try our best to screw them out of their profits by buying Toyota. You see, we the people CHOOSE our cars based on fit/finish and quality, not by country. GM kicked itself in the nuts by screwing the American people out of their money with substandard vehicles.
BIGWORM_25
01-25-2007, 05:29 PM
Mr Detroit Metal, you neglect the fact that HUMANS buy these cars. We don't hate GM to make ourselves feel better, or try our best to screw them out of their profits by buying Toyota. You see, we the people CHOOSE our cars based on fit/finish and quality, not by country. GM kicked itself in the nuts by screwing the American people out of their money with substandard vehicles.
Dude...you are totally right.Unfortunately you cant tell this retard anything.Thats why I give up.He is a Dee Dee Dee.
Gtek-i
01-25-2007, 06:47 PM
end of thread
MRDETROITMETAL
01-26-2007, 01:11 PM
Mr Detroit Metal, you neglect the fact that HUMANS buy these cars. We don't hate GM to make ourselves feel better, or try our best to screw them out of their profits by buying Toyota. You see, we the people CHOOSE our cars based on fit/finish and quality, not by country. GM kicked itself in the nuts by screwing the American people out of their money with substandard vehicles.
I am NOT saying that they didn't....BUT today is a different day and GM is a different company because of it that makes better cars than what you precieve them to be.
That was my whole point here, and that in spite of ALL of that they remain at #1 in worldwide sales !!! Hardly a fact to be argued with at all, nor is GM a company to be just discounted to the point of extinction.
They are Bad Boys in Detroit, and they are not taking this lying down either. They will continue and succeed with GM.
Now you can end the thread !:D :D
SupraMan22
01-26-2007, 10:24 PM
mdm watch this. you will have a much better out look on life.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=91MtHvcespM
MRDETROITMETAL
01-26-2007, 10:40 PM
LOL...thats for real retards...LMAO I greatly prefer this one ;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4id5fgLwsu0&mode=related&search=
U BLUE IT AGAIN !!!.... AW GO ON GET UP AN DANCE !!! (you know you want to !)
THX to all.
...it's been Fun, its been Real....but it ain't been REAL FUN !!!...lol.
MRDETROITMETAL
02-02-2007, 01:13 AM
Final post :
GM not only has won the war but is winning the battles too !!!...read it and weep !.....:
Jan. 2007 Sales: General Motors
DETROIT - GM accelerated its efforts to reduce daily rental sales with a dramatic cut versus January 2006, contributing to United States total deliveries of 247,464 vehicles, down 19.7 percent on a sales day adjusted basis, from sales of 296,003 in January 2006.
"We are aggressively reducing our daily rental fleet sales as a continuing element of our strategy to offer industry-leading value and improve residuals. Importantly, we also are launching significant new vehicles such as everybody's truck of the year, the Chevrolet Silverado, and GMC Sierra full-size pickups, as well as the new GMC Acadia and Saturn Outlook mid-utility crossovers," said Mark LaNeve, vice president, GM North American Sales, Service and Marketing. "In January, our mix of total fleet to retail sales continued to improve significantly. The positive movement we have seen in total mix, and the mix of fleet to retail sales, positions us for future retail sales growth."
Total full-size pickup retail sales were up 7 percent compared with January 2006, with positive showings by Chevrolet Avalanche up 77 percent and GMC Sierra up 13 percent. Chevrolet Silverado retail sales volume was up more than 1,000 trucks compared with last January.
The new GMC Acadia and Saturn Outlook together accounted for more than 2,300 retail vehicle sales in the month. Combined with a 25 percent increase in retail sales for Buick Rendezvous, the mid-utility segment grew retail sales 132 percent compared with year-ago January levels.
Large luxury utilities continued to perform well, with a 40 percent retail increase by Cadillac Escalade, a 116 percent retail increase by the Escalade ESV and a 44 percent retail increase by Escalade EXT, compared with January 2006. "The continued strong performance of our segment-leading Escalade luxury utilities demonstrates our ability to design and deliver outstanding large luxury SUVs, with the best value, to the marketplace," LaNeve added.
Driven by a 5 percent increase in Chevrolet Aveo retail sales, GM's economy car segment retail volume was up 5 percent compared with January 2006. A 6 percent retail increase in Buick Lucerne and a 30 percent increase in Chevrolet Impala retail sales, compared with the same month a year ago, pushed GM's mid-car segment retail volume up 3 percent.
Certified Used Vehicles
January 2007 sales for all certified GM brands, including GM Certified Used Vehicles, Cadillac Certified Pre-Owned Vehicles, Saturn Certified Pre-Owned Vehicles, Saab Certified Pre-Owned Vehicles, and HUMMER Certified Pre-Owned Vehicles, were 43,262 units, up nearly 10 percent from last January.
GM Certified Used Vehicles, the industry's top-selling certified brand, posted January sales of 37,550 units, up 9 percent from year-ago levels.
Cadillac Certified Pre-Owned Vehicles posted strong January sales of 3,732 units, up nearly 27 percent. Saturn Certified Pre-Owned Vehicles sold 1,326 units in January, down 17.5 percent. Saab Certified Pre-Owned Vehicles sold 527 units, up 22 percent, and HUMMER Certified Pre-Owned Vehicles sold 127 units.
"GM Certified Used Vehicles started the new year off strong, increasing sales 9 percent over last January," LaNeve said. "This builds nicely upon 2006, when GM Certified Used Vehicles closed the year as the industry's top-selling manufacturer-certified brand for the fifth consecutive year. We're very pleased with this start and are confident 2007 will be a year for continued growth."
GM North America Reports January 2007 Production, 2007 First-Quarter Production Forecast is Revised at 1.080 Million Vehicles
In January, GM North America produced 313,000 vehicles (135,000 cars and 178,000 trucks). This is down 74,000 vehicles or 19 percent compared to January 2006 when the region produced 387,000 vehicles (159,000 cars and 228,000 trucks). (Production totals include joint venture production of 15,000 vehicles in January 2007 and 26,000 vehicles in January 2006.)
The region's 2007 first-quarter production forecast is revised at 1.080 million vehicles (417,000 cars and 663,000 trucks), down 40,000 vehicles or 3.6 percent from last month's guidance. The production decrease is due to GM's ongoing efforts to reduce low-margin daily rental fleet sales, shifting production to the company's new full-size pickups and the ongoing management of inventories. In the first-quarter of 2006, the region produced 1.255 million vehicles (496,000 cars and 759,000 trucks).
GM also announced 2006 actual fourth-quarter production and 2007 revised first-quarter production forecasts for its international regions.
GM Europe - In the fourth-quarter of 2006, GM Europe built 443,000 vehicles. In the fourth-quarter of 2005, the region built 443,000 vehicles. The region's 2007 first-quarter production forecast is unchanged at 508,000 units. In the first-quarter of 2006 the region built 494,000 vehicles.
GM Asia Pacific - GM Asia Pacific built 509,000 vehicles in the fourth-quarter of 2006. In the fourth-quarter of 2005, the region built 420,000 vehicles. The region's 2007 first-quarter production forecast is revised at 521,000 units, down 10,000 units from last month's guidance. In the first-quarter of 2006 the region built 472,000 vehicles.
GM Latin America, Africa and the Middle East - In the fourth-quarter of 2006, the region built 215,000 vehicles. In the fourth-quarter of 2005, the region built 188,000 vehicles. The region's 2007 first-quarter production forecast is revised at 225,000 units, up 11,000 vehicles from last month's guidance. In the first-quarter of 2006, the region built 194,000 vehicles.
General Motors Corp. (NYSE: GM), the world's largest automaker, has been the global industry sales leader for 76 years. Founded in 1908, GM today employs about 284,000 people around the world. With global headquarters in Detroit, GM manufactures its cars and trucks in 33 countries. In 2006, nearly 9.1 million GM cars and trucks were sold globally under the following brands: Buick, Cadillac, Chevrolet, GMC, GM Daewoo, Holden, HUMMER, Opel, Pontiac, Saab, Saturn and Vauxhall. GM's OnStar subsidiary is the industry leader in vehicle safety, security and information services. More information on GM can be found at www.gm.com.
Esperante
02-02-2007, 03:26 PM
Boohoo!
Post your source.
Oh wait, YOU'RE BANNED. Ha!
*last laugh*
Luxurioux
02-08-2007, 01:17 AM
Ah So...I krannot spelk Japanorese and WTF is a CANNERY anyuway in ENGRISH ???...hmmmm.
...so just like the Camry (???) just looks so so wrong, is it even a NAME of something in another dilect other than AMERCIA - CAN !!!!
I KNOW what an IMPALA is or a CHARGER or a FUSION but.....huh ?
First thing Toyopet needs to do is LEARN how to build cars that AMERICANS can spell because they are REAL WORDS in the ENGLISH language...Cam-Whatever-y is NOT one of those words, sorry dudes.
NEVERMIND....I am changing it to a DODGE right now !!!
Screw you. Dont be racist. The names dont have to be in english. Most of them come form some latin type language.
SS454
02-22-2007, 09:30 PM
;) ...interesting thread.
MPower22
02-22-2007, 10:15 PM
can we please stop reviving MDM's old threads?
SupraMan22
02-24-2007, 09:22 AM
if i had to say thats prolly him.....