2007 Dodge Demon Concept for Geneva

[Dickrich]

http://www.autoblog.com/2007/02/12/dodge-demon-concept-will-debut-in-geneva/
http://www.autocar.co.uk/News/NewsGallery.aspx?AR=224117&EL=-1
http://www.supercars.net/cars/3738.html

"US motor industry sources revealed that Dodge would show a small rear-driven roadster at Geneva at the Detroit show in January. They suggested it would be pitched as a very close match for the Mazda MX-5, and also be a clear relation of the Dodge Razor coupe, which was shown at Detroit in 2002. They've turned out to be absolutely right on both counts."

engine Aluminum DCX Inline-4 World Engine
position Front Transverse
aspiration Natural
valvetrain Electro-Hydraulic Dual Valve Timing
displacement 2360 cc / 144.0 cu in
bore 88 mm / 3.46 in
stroke 97 mm / 3.82 in
power 128.3 kw / 172 bhp @ 6000 rpm
hp per litre 72.88 bhp per litre
bhp/weight 145.89 bhp per weight
torque 223.71 nm / 165 ft lbs @ 4400 rpm
drive wheels RWD
front wheels F 48.3 x 20.3 cm / 19 x 8 in
rear wheels R 48.3 x 20.3 cm / 19 x 8 in
weight 1179 kg / 2600 lbs
wheelbase 2429 mm / 95.6 in
front track 1491 mm / 58.7 in
rear track 1491 mm / 58.7 in
length 3974 mm / 156.5 in
width 1736 mm / 68.3 in
height 1315 mm / 51.8 in
transmission Six-Speed Manual

[whiteballz]

Is it strange i see alot of potential for this car?*

*aftermarket wise i mean - could look and go quite hard

[Street_Dreamer]

depends what ur talking about. On this concept, the only thing i'd do exteriorwise is put a small spoiler on the back to give that rounded shape a bit more aggression, and i'd probably do everything else under the bonnet or in other places, depending on what you want.

[2ndclasscitizen]

I like it. Nice and light with some decent grunt.

Can anyone see a lot of Murcielago in that rear shot though?

[IBrake4Rainbows]

I see it definately. but only because of the lighting - the shadow cast on the rear bumper looks Vent-rich.

still, nice car. i think it's almost overly-masculine enough for men to buy it without looking slightly feminine ;)

[zeppelin]

I see it, it's the taillights and general shape of the rear bumper. Very Murcielago like. As a whole I really like this, and hope to see it produced soon.

[jediali]

im getting vibes of S2000

[Imakuni]

Bit of Viper-nes in the fourth shot. Looks good, nice and angrrrrrry.

[Jack_Bauer]

It'll be interesting to see how well this car stacks up against the MX-5/Miata in handling terms. On the stats sheet it certainly looks half decent, and looks-wise it makes for a more aggressive, 'manlier' alternative to the feminine and cutesy MX-5. Whether it can compare to the MX-5 on the twisties will be the real acid test. Definite potential though.

[baddabang]

im getting vibes of S2000


I see definitely see what you mean.

The front grill is hideous and makes the car seem like its frowning.

[cmcpokey]

ok, i dont see the murci.. but i do see aston in the tail lights.

in order to stand out, i really they should have put the 5.7L Hemi in there from the get-go. like the solstice has the LS6 option, albeit through a long chain and huge expense. dodge can reap a bunch of those sales if they throw it in as an original from the factory option. then, all would all be good and right in this world.

[blackcat77]

Not exactly a breakthrough design, but it's nicely done for the most part. Reduce that gaping maw of a grille and it would be very nice.

[ScionDriver]

This could be good for Dodge. Its a great idea we'll have to see how it is once it hits the streets.

[Ferrer]

I quite like styling, except for the front.

It'll be interesting to see how well this car stacks up against the MX-5/Miata in handling terms. On the stats sheet it certainly looks half decent, and looks-wise it makes for a more aggressive, 'manlier' alternative to the feminine and cutesy MX-5. Whether it can compare to the MX-5 on the twisties will be the real acid test. Definite potential though.
Strangely, though, the engine is mounted tranversely (unless it's a typo)... :confused:

[Jack_Bauer]

Strangely, though, the engine is mounted tranversely (unless it's a typo)... :confused:

Yeah I noticed that too, does seem a little odd. Only explanation I guess would be that they're trying to keep the weight as far back behind the front axle as possible for better weight distribution. :confused:

Unless it is just a typo of course.

[Pando]

Weird, it looks big and small at the same time?

It's interesting though, they could've gone for a more efficient engine but as it is Dodge I'm positively surprised there as well.

[digitalcraft]

It looks like an interesting little car. I for one am not a fan of the Dodge cross grill, I think they need to stop putting that on everything.

[Kitdy]

It looks the most "swoopy" of all Dodge's designs - typically big, blocky masculine things. I think it looks kinda cool - but I don't know if it will be accepted as a Dodge if it is ever sold.


It looks like an interesting little car. I for one am not a fan of the Dodge cross grill, I think they need to stop putting that on everything.

That is a spot on assertion. Those lights look pretty sick I think - they tie in the whole design. The rear end looks like an reminds me of an Accord or something. I think this is a case of Dodge + S2000 + some kind of Lexus = this car, which looks pretty cool I think. Will their be a coupe version?

[Waugh-terfall]

It's like a cross between an Audi TT Roadster/ Dodge Viper SRT-10/Dodge Charger

[speednine]

As stated earlier...The grill

Proportionally, the grill does not match the size of the rest of the car. They need to change that. I see the masculinity, but still see only hair dressers buying this car.

[70cuda88]

i think they just smashed up the viper and made it a gold convertible

[aNOBLEman]

It's like a cross between an Audi TT Roadster/ Dodge Viper SRT-10/Dodge Charger


Exactly what I was thinking. Those rear lights look like they were taken straight from the Audi TT. The side profile also reminds of the Ford Cobra Concept, except smaller. The spec sheet looks good. I wonder if they will make a performance version like the Sky Red Line/Solstice GXP.

[bmwpower]

All i can say is that if the back got an uglier i would've sued Dodge for the nightmares and permanent loss of sight.

[DesmoRob]

Solstice, Sky, and MX-5 are all far cleaner looking than this. I expected more from dodge. This looks like shit.

[Ferrer]

Solstice, Sky, and MX-5 are all far cleaner looking than this. I expected more from dodge. This looks like shit.
Well the Solstice and Sky (and GT) aren't exactly a svelte beauty either, in my opinion. Plus they are absolutely massive. At least this has remained suitably small.

[Kitdy]

Well the Solstice and Sky (and GT) aren't exactly a svelte beauty either, in my opinion. Plus they are absolutely massive. At least this has remained suitably small.

I agree with you Ferrer. I actually think the Solstice and Sky are horrid. One question though. Why are you up so early?! :p

[Ferrer]

I agree with you Ferrer. I actually think the Solstice and Sky are horrid. One question though. Why are you up so early?! :p
Just before I went to uni I decided to check the UCP forums... :p

I don't like them either. Not only they are ugly and massive but desperately fat too.

[henk4]

I quite like styling, except for the front.

Strangely, though, the engine is mounted tranversely (unless it's a typo)... :confused:

or unless it is FWD:)

[Ferrer]

or unless it is FWD:)
Well it could but the press release says it's RWD. We know that press releases are bs... but at least they should get what wheels are driven right, shouldn't they? ;)

[henk4]

Well it could but the press release says it's RWD. We know that press releases are bs... but at least they should get what wheels are driven right, shouldn't they? ;)


Let's then blame sc.net for deliberately divulging misleading information on a competing forum;)

[kigango123]

pretty narli, except for that nose, kind of looks like a pissed off pig.

[Pando]

or unless it is FWD:)I actually wouldn't be surprised if the car would make it to production with some slight changes, like FWD... I've learned from a SRT-4 thread a while back that FWD is the choice for hard core racers, I'm sure Dodge feels the same.

[jcp123]

It'll never make production under that name...the first Dodge Demon in the 70's got sued out of existence by religious groups.

[Volvoman]

Solstice, Sky, and MX-5 are all far cleaner looking than this. I expected more from dodge. This looks like shit.

Have you got any pics of the Solstice and Sky? I would like to compare them to this car. We only get the MX-5 here.

[Jack_Bauer]

Have you got any pics of the Solstice and Sky? I would like to compare them to this car. We only get the MX-5 here.

Pontiac Solstice (http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/frame.php?file=car.php&carnum=1847)

Saturn Sky (http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/frame.php?file=car.php&carnum=2190)

[Kitdy]

or unless it is FWD:)

This whole transverse longitudinal thing I don't fully understand the mechanics of. I have a rough idea, but it seems after reading this that RWD cars have longitudinal engines, whereas FWD ones can have them transverse? Does this have to do with attaching the engine to the gearbox and transferring power to the drivetrain? I am a real newbie when it comes to the inner workings of the cars who is willing to learn. Please enlighten me.

[henk4]

This whole transverse longitudinal thing I don't fully understand the mechanics of. I have a rough idea, but it seems after reading this that RWD cars have longitudinal engines, whereas FWD ones can have them transverse? Does this have to do with attaching the engine to the gearbox and transferring power to the drivetrain? I am a real newbie when it comes to the inner workings of the cars who is willing to learn. Please enlighten me.

FWD cars were initially designed with a longitudinal engine, whereby the diff was directly linked with the gearbox. The engine could either hang before the front axle (as still is the case with Audis) or put behind the front axle, like for instance a Citroen DS (and also the Subarus if I am not mistaken).
When Issigonis presented his Mini in 1959 he had managed to combine engine/box/clutch and dif into one unit, which he could place transversally, sort of above the front axle. This practice is now more or less common, except again for Audi but they plan to switch that, to make exchange of components with VW much easier.

The transversal position limits the lenght of the engine more than a longitudinal one, but for instance Volvo has an a transverse inline 6 as well as a transverse V8.

[2ndclasscitizen]

FWD cars were initially designed with a longitudinal engine, whereby the diff was directly linked with the gearbox. The engine could either hang before the front axle (as still is the case with Audis) or put behind the front axle, like for instance a Citroen DS (and also the Subarus if I am not mistaken).You are correct there, mine is like that.

[jediali]

This whole transverse longitudinal thing I don't fully understand the mechanics of. I have a rough idea, but it seems after reading this that RWD cars have longitudinal engines, whereas FWD ones can have them transverse? Does this have to do with attaching the engine to the gearbox and transferring power to the drivetrain? I am a real newbie when it comes to the inner workings of the cars who is willing to learn. Please enlighten me.

i feel it has more to do with packaging paradigms. front wheel drive suggests transverse engine with gearbox on the end laying slightly in front of front axle. This alows emphasis on safety, space and mechanical (production) modularisation. ie the subframe, suspension, engine, cluth, gearbox, steering, propshafts..and othor major core functions are all prepared seperately depending on vehicele spec then attatched in a oner to a common monocoqie steel chassis. Many Awd cars (freelander, audis, vws, panda and other 'small' 4x4s) simply utilise the above setup and just add a propshaft to a rear differential. This does not mean that a rwd car is the oposite case. It just puts more demand on the design team to create a car that ticks all the consumer percievability boxes (space, safety, size..) and is still relatively efficient to mass manufacture.:rolleyes:

[jediali]

FWD cars were initially designed with a longitudinal engine, whereby the diff was directly linked with the gearbox. The engine could either hang before the front axle (as still is the case with Audis) or put behind the front axle, like for instance a Citroen DS (and also the Subarus if I am not mistaken).
When Issigonis presented his Mini in 1959 he had managed to combine engine/box/clutch and dif into one unit, which he could place transversally, sort of above the front axle. This practice is now more or less common, except again for Audi but they plan to switch that, to make exchange of components with VW much easier.

The transversal position limits the lenght of the engine more than a longitudinal one, but for instance Volvo has an a transverse inline 6 as well as a transverse V8.
good post. thats why volvo have the worlds shortest automatic gearbox!:D

[Ferrer]

When Issigonis presented his Mini in 1959 he had managed to combine engine/box/clutch and dif into one unit, which he could place transversally, sort of above the front axle. This practice is now more or less common, except again for Audi but they plan to switch that, to make exchange of components with VW much easier.
That's not exactly true. As you said the gearbox of the Mini was in the engine. That's not the case with modern cars. The common layout now, gearbox next to the engine, was pioneered by the 1969 Fiat 128 and made ubiquitous by the 1974 Volkswagen Golf.

[Kitdy]

Fantastic stuff guys. Many thanks.

[henk4]

That's not exactly true. As you said the gearbox of the Mini was in the engine. That's not the case with modern cars. The common layout now, gearbox next to the engine, was pioneered by the 1969 Fiat 128 and made ubiquitous by the 1974 Volkswagen Golf.

wasn't the Autobianchi A111 the mule for the Fiat 128?

[Ferrer]

wasn't the Autobianchi A111 the mule for the Fiat 128?
Actually they were both launched in 1969.

[henk4]

Actually they were both launched in 1969.

i just checked and I had to revise my earlier thought that the Primula had a longitudinal engine....That was the first car that used Fiat's transverse engine:)

[Ferrer]

i just checked and I had to revise my earlier thought that the Primula had a longitudinal engine....That was the first car that used Fiat's transverse engine:)
Yes you're right, and it has the gearbox behind the engine (like is common now) unlike BMC cars. So the is Primula is then, in 1964.

[Mäusekino]

back to the topic: i like the concept and idea of a small dodge roadster. also the front looks very cool, but i think the back looks very ford and the kerb that starts at the front wheelcase and the big wide round back wheelcases look like they came from another car.
or like three designers had worked on the same concept, each not knowing that there are 2 others doing the same. and then another designer got the job to mix all 3 drafts together. not to mention the engine, which is not new and known for it's lack of power.

i'd rather buy the mx-5, if the demon will come on the market like this.

[ANDREW G]

N.Y. car show had Demon I was not impressed:(

[jesa]

Hey, I went there too and I also saw that car!! If the Charger and the Viper had a baby that is what it would look like...

[pAinTrAin]

I guess this is the new Solstice rival

[jesa]

The Demon is a rather underpowered car. It only has 172 hp. Now the Solstice has around 190 hp. Solstice would emerge victorious!!

[ANDREW G]

Demon very few Chargers and no Challenger??at N.Y. car show:confused:

[jesa]

Did you see the Vipers at the Auto Show?? They would kick Demon butt!

[Ferrer]

The Demon is a rather underpowered car. It only has 172 hp. Now the Solstice has around 190 hp. Solstice would emerge victorious!!
Since when power is the measure of how good (or bad) are cars?

[clutch-monkey]

Since when power is the measure of how good (or bad) are cars?
if you're some kid sitting at home behind a computer with zero driving experience, i guess then it would be the measure

[ANDREW G]

Did you see the Vipers at the Auto Show?? They would kick Demon butt!
No Vipers :confused:

[pAinTrAin]

The Demon is a rather underpowered car. It only has 172 hp. Now the Solstice has around 190 hp. Solstice would emerge victorious!!

Well I know just wait tell someone drops a 6.1L Hemi in it....thats if there RWD, haven't seen dodge up a new FWD car in a bit. Unless the Avenger is?

[Pando]

Well I know just wait tell someone drops a 6.1L Hemi in it....thats if there RWD, haven't seen dodge up a new FWD car in a bit. Unless the Avenger is?
Demon RWD, Avenger AWD.

[nota]

That's not exactly true. As you said the gearbox of the Mini was in the engine. That's not the case with modern cars. The common layout now, gearbox next to the engine, was pioneered by the 1969 Fiat 128 and made ubiquitous by the 1974 Volkswagen Golf.
I remember seeing a Goliath 2-stroke fwd van some years ago (commercial variant of GP700?) which had a transverse engine with (if memory serves) its gearbox adjacent to the engine. Not sure about this though, it was a few years ago!

Lloyd LP300 might have used a similar configuration?

http://www.angelfire.com/mb2/fws/lloyd.html

[pAinTrAin]

Demon RWD, Avenger AWD.



Oh nice AWD might have to take one of them for a test drive.

[The_Canuck]

Well, if Chrysler gets sold, everything could switch around. So we can't really no what the Demon will be.

[Ferrer]

Demon RWD, Avenger AWD.
The Avenger is available with front wheel drive too.

I remember seeing a Goliath 2-stroke fwd van some years ago (commercial variant of GP700?) which had a transverse engine with (if memory serves) its gearbox adjacent to the engine. Not sure about this though, it was a few years ago!

Lloyd LP300 might have used a similar configuration?

http://www.angelfire.com/mb2/fws/lloyd.html
The GP700 introduced in 1950 definitely had a transverse engine, but I haven't been able to find anything about the placement of the gearbox. So you might be right. By the way can the Goliath be the frist front wheel drive car with a tranverse engine?

[Pando]

The Avenger is available with front wheel drive too.How nice of you for clearing that up. :)

[nota]

The GP700 introduced in 1950 definitely had a transverse engine, but I haven't been able to find anything about the placement of the gearbox. So you might be right. By the way can the Goliath be the frist front wheel drive car with a tranverse engine?
Me neither. Great question re Goliath but I honestly don't know ..

Enlarge the SAAB pic on this wiki page (engine gearbox clearly depicted) which also tentatively cites the transverse DKW 'Front' of 1931 (as do other sites) although details on its gearbox location are proving rather elusive
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transverse_engine

Those fascinating cars of genius designer Jean Gregoire also seem to be near the forefront (later adopted by Borgward's Lloyd/Hansa vehicles) of transverse FWD, but again its hard to find English web-details of gearbox setup

1945 pic of Gregoire-designed FWD car (licensed to Hartnett) which was a precursor to Borgward's transverse FWD Lloyd LP300 of 1950
http://naa12.naa.gov.au/scripts/PhotoSearchItemDetail.asp?M=0&B=11196624&SE=1

Apart from that 'ghost' schematic drawing in my previous Lloyd link, the closest I've come is this (attached) big underbonnet pic of a later-model Lloyd-Hartnett, which would undoubtedly use a similar mechanical confabulation to the 1945 model - maybe you have better eyes than me and can identify its gearbox position? :confused:

(or you could quite understandably lose interest) :D


A view inside the engine compartment of the 1958 Lloyd-Hartnett Alexander 600 sedan. The engine is in the left foreground, with the carburettor just behind it and the battery and petrol tank at the rear of the engine bay. The Lloyd-Hartnett microcar was assembled in Queensland at Kangaroo Point, Brisbane.
The engine was an air-cooled inline twin-cylinder 4-stroke of 596cc, mounted transversely and driving the front wheels. An advanced, low-friction design, with chain driven overhead camshaft, hemispherical combustion chambers and ball and roller bearings, the engine was able to maintain high revs for extended periods while still delivering over 50mpg fuel economy.


Under the bonnet the engine sits low under the cylindrical air cleaner and carburetor, with the battery and petrol tank at the rear of the engine bay. The car was announced as a 594 cc. ohv air-cooled, flat-twin with forward rack and pinion steering and hydromechanical brakes.

[Ferrer]

I always thought that early SAABs had longitudinal engines... :confused:

I unfortunately can't see the gearbox in the LLoyd's engine bay, but on the other hand the Wikipedia's article you linked in the previous post seems to suggest that the first front wheel drive car with a tranverse engine and the gearbox beside it to hit the market was a designed by Dante Giacosa of Fiat, or in other words that it could be the Autobianchi Primula in 1964.

That's a very interesting question indeed and my not losing interest... ;) Maybe someone could help us out?

[nota]

I always thought that early SAABs had longitudinal engines... :confused:

I unfortunately can't see the gearbox in the LLoyd's engine bay, but on the other hand the Wikipedia's article you linked in the previous post seems to suggest that the first front wheel drive car with a tranverse engine and the gearbox beside it to hit the market was a designed by Dante Giacosa of Fiat, or in other words that it could be the Autobianchi Primula in 1964.


The plot thickens, re SAAB (hence possibly DKW) transverse engine/gearbox speculation :)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saab_two-stroke

[Ferrer]

The plot thickens, re SAAB (hence possibly DKW) transverse engine/gearbox speculation :)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saab_two-stroke
It was the 93 I was thinking of as it turns out. It'd be really interesting if the SAAB had the gearbox beside the engine, or another arrangement. Perhaps motorcycle style?

[ANDREW G]

Old school Dodge Demon;)

[SLANDREW]

Old school Dodge Demon;)
NICE:) :confused:

[The_Canuck]

Oh how clever.

[clutch-monkey]

his next name should be "bannedrew"

[Fiorano]

I actually wouldn't be surprised if the car would make it to production with some slight changes, like FWD... I've learned from a SRT-4 thread a while back that FWD is the choice for hard core racers, I'm sure Dodge feels the same.

FWD the choice for hardcore racers?
It is a good choice the old Neon R/T was a track demon, and Mini's are too.
But to really be a racer and hardcore, RWD wins you have rear steering through throttle and all. and the front tyres are not stressed extra by steering and acclerating.
everytime I race a FWD car, it is good for a while- then chronic understeer is an issue, but the precise and awesome control in a rear drive is superior in almost every way.
I think a hardcore racer would race anything with wheels, but rear drive is king. (wieght transfer, throttle balance ...etc.)

[2ndclasscitizen]

FWD the choice for hardcore racers?
It is a good choice the old Neon R/T was a track demon, and Mini's are too.
But to really be a racer and hardcore, RWD wins you have rear steering through throttle and all. and the front tyres are not stressed extra by steering and acclerating.
everytime I race a FWD car, it is good for a while- then chronic understeer is an issue, but the precise and awesome control in a rear drive is superior in almost every way.
I think a hardcore racer would race anything with wheels, but rear drive is king. (wieght transfer, throttle balance ...etc.)

Sarcasm > You

[Fiorano]

2nd class citizen FTW
you pwned
You can never tell on these boards when some one is sarcastic
BTW what happened to the Dodge SLingshot?

[454MAG]

Old school 340-4BBL WITH REAR WHEEL DRIVE the only true Demon!

[IWantAnAudiRS6]

Is that Andrew again?

I prefer the original too, but there we are.

[Pando]

You can never tell on these boards when some one is sarcasticA good rule of thumb would be to never take me seriously.

[Chelo_Spectra]

i just keep with the retro style Demon... the new one is quite nice but not enough.... RWD should be better... but looks like it will be the same shit than the S2000 pretty but dangerous on curves.

[The_Canuck]

Is that Andrew again?



I've been wondering...