Audi A5 (8T) 2007-2015

[shockwaveracing]

The Audi A5 (internally designated Typ 8T) is a coupé produced by the German automobile manufacturer Audi since 2007. It is the coupé, cabriolet, and five-door fastback versions of the fourth generation (B8) Audi A4 saloon and estate models.




images courtesy of AutoBlog

[jediali]

do you think A5 taillghts are similar to 3 series coupe?

http://www.evo.co.uk/images/front_picture_library_UK/dir_413/car_photo_206652_7.jpg

[Clivey]

do you think A5 taillghts are similar to 3 series coupe?

Don't you think the whole rear 3/4 view is similar to the 3-Series Coupé?

Still, I'd hit it. Awaiting technical details...

[silverhawk]

yup its a 3 series from the rear. audis do have their own distinct style but now theyve become too similar. overall i like it especially the interior

[M_M]

When the page loaded, the fourth pic caught my attention and then I thought: "This is a BMW 3-series coupe". Well, it just is! But with some smoother lines here and there. I'm not saying the final result is bad... I think I like it...

[jediali]

Don't you think the whole rear 3/4 view is similar to the 3-Series Coupé?

Still, I'd hit it. Awaiting technical details...
wheres the creativity? i suppose thats the italians

[Waugh-terfall]

I've just fallen in love

[coolieman1220]

wow that looks good

[NSXType-R]

Yes, that does look good. Quick question- is it going to be RWD or Quattro or FWD?

Making it Quattro could make it too heavy, FWD exists on the TT, so it could end up on this, but RWD sounds like it could make it into this big coupe.

[jediali]

audi dont do rwd, im guessing entry level fwd and 4wd for other models, like the a4

[hec16]

I've just fallen in love

me 2 I think its one of the nicest cars I've ever seen

[Vaigra]

Finally. I've been waiting on this car since they stopped making the coupe. 11 damn years. The TT isn't really a direct rival to the BMW 3-series coupe and Audi lost a major amount of sales to the 3-coupe since they stopped making a coupe. I hope it'll have the 60:40 split similar to the RS4. Even I agree Audi's tend to understeer but that new system really helps. Awaiting more detail.
EDIT: I see a 3.0tdi quattro badge, that sounds promising indeed.

[Kooper]

It doesn't look bad, but I find it hard to believe that this is the car that made the bigwigs at Audi cry at it's beauty during pre-release screening.

If that's what they did when they laid eyes on this, they're probably still sobbing at the thought of an 8C.

[Waugh-terfall]

Finally. I've been waiting on this car since they stopped making the coupe. 11 damn years. The TT isn't really a direct rival to the BMW 3-series coupe and Audi lost a major amount of sales to the 3-coupe since they stopped making a coupe. I hope it'll have the 60:40 split similar to the RS4. Even I agree Audi's tend to understeer but that new system really helps. Awaiting more detail.
EDIT: I see a 3.0tdi quattro badge, that sounds promising indeed.

lol, deja vu from MSN a few weeks ago.

[Street_Dreamer]

This car is MUCH nicer than the 3 Series Coupe, and considering the 3er Coupe is one of very few BMWs i like, thats not bad, but they are continuing fine form with another stunner.
Hopefully it'll be as good to drive as recent Audis :)

EDIT: after more inspection, the only thing i don't like about it is the rear lights, but i used to hate the Q7 lights and now i love them, so... Waiting to see this lil beast in the metal

[ScionDriver]

I like it but will be able to compete with the 3-series? It looks kind of big I just wonder if that might compensate the handling a bit.

[Waugh-terfall]

This car is MUCH nicer than the 3 Series Coupe, and considering the 3er Coupe is one of very few BMWs i like, thats not bad, but they are continuing fine form with another stunner.
Hopefully it'll be as good to drive as recent Audis :)

EDIT: after more inspection, the only thing i don't like about it is the rear lights, but i used to hate the Q7 lights and now i love them, so... Waiting to see this lil beast in the metal

Like he said, I'm really not a BMW fan other than Z4 Coupe/X5/3series Coupe, the A5 looks more aggressive and I think will be well on it's way to knock the 3series coupe from it's castle.

[Waugh-terfall]

I like it but will be able to compete with the 3-series? It looks kind of big I just wonder if that might compensate the handling a bit.

With Quattro and Audi Magnetic Ride, should be a hoot

[Lagonda]

Yes, that does look good. Quick question- is it going to be RWD or Quattro or FWD?

Making it Quattro could make it too heavy, FWD exists on the TT, so it could end up on this, but RWD sounds like it could make it into this big coupe.

Audi only does FWD and quattro.

Oh and Audi: at least you could be a BIT original. Ah well.

[NSXType-R]

audi dont do rwd, im guessing entry level fwd and 4wd for other models, like the a4


Audi only does FWD and quattro.

Oh and Audi: at least you could be a BIT original. Ah well.

Yes, it feels like they'll go that way. One can always wish right? :p

RS5 anyone? :eek:

Edit- looks like there's a proper manual too!

[jediali]

Audi only does FWD and quattro.

Oh and Audi: at least you could be a BIT original. Ah well.
we are alike: i made both those points. The big german 3 need to make some moves!

[VtecMini]

Okay, so we're agreed on the back looking like a 3 coupe, but what the hell is going on at the front? Are they actually previous-shape A4 lights, or is it just me?

[netburner]

Some technical datas, which are known up to now:

4.6 meters long

engines:
2.0 TFSI with 177hp
3.2 FSI with 255hp
3.0 TDI with 233hp

S5 with 4.2 V8 and 350hp
RS5 maybe with the 420hp V8 out of the RS4

[jediali]

S6 with 4.2 V8 and 350hp
RS6 maybe with the 420hp V8 out of the RS4
odd??

[Ferrer]

odd??
I'm sure he meant S5 and RS5 respectively.

And to me it looks like a BMW 3-series Coupe with an Audi front end. Not bad but not remarkable either.

[Vaigra]

BTW the 2007 needs removing from the thread title.

[Kooper]

Hope I'm not going to offend anyone, but the curved lines on the sides look like Audi took an A4, removed the back doors and melted the bodywork a bit...

[netburner]

I'm sure he meant S5 and RS5 respectively.


Oh dear... yes, my fault...

[Ferrer]

Hope I'm not going to offend anyone, but the curved lines on the sides look like Audi took an A4, removed the back doors and melted the bodywork a bit...
Well that's what it's supposed to be, isn't it?

[Kooper]

Well that's what it's supposed to be, isn't it?



Not sure, I think it would've looked nicer with the usual Audi straight lines. Then again, that's just me.

[Ferrer]

Not sure, I think it would've looked nicer with the usual Audi straight lines. Then again, that's just me.
I meant that it was what was supposed to be in reference to the A4 Coupe comment... ;)

[Kooper]

I meant that it was what was supposed to be in reference to the A4 Coupe comment... ;)



Ah, sorry, misunderstood you there! :o

[The_Canuck]

RS5 = Awesome...

[WyleECoyote]

I think it looks like the love child of new BMW 3 Series Coupe and the new Audi TT..

[Ferrer]

RS5 = Awesome...
Only the Avants are the proper RS Audis...

[Mr.Tiv]

Only the Avants are the proper RS Audis...

Shame that they're so ugly(not just the Avants).

That grill bothers me.

[The_Canuck]

Only the Avants are the proper RS Audis...

Yes, but this car with 420hp would be pretty cool :D

and by proper, do you mean In your opinion? Or did it used to be that way until the RS4 sedan came?

[Mr.Tiv]

it used to be that way until the RS4 sedan came?

I believe that is correct

See also: RS2

[Ferrer]

Yes, but this car with 420hp would be pretty cool :D

and by proper, do you mean In your opinion? Or did it used to be that way until the RS4 sedan came?
It's until the RS6 saloon came. The original RS Audi, the RS2, was only available as an estate (altough a few saloons for special customers were built). The RS4 Mk I was also only available as an estate. The RS6 changed that, altough the Plus was again only available in Avant guise.

[NSXType-R]

Only the Avants are the proper RS Audis...

So then make it a breadvan?:confused: :p

[Waugh-terfall]

Do Audi really need another estate? A3 Sportback... A4 Avant... A6 Avant... Allroad Quattro...

[Ferrer]

Do Audi really need another estate? A3 Sportback... Allroad Quattro...
Those two aren't estates, the first one is a 5 door hatchback with a fancy name, and the second one manages to be ugly, pointless and useless at the same time...

So then make it a breadvan?:confused: :p
Aston Martin-like Shooting Break perhaps? ;)

[NSXType-R]

Aston Martin-like Shooting Break perhaps? ;)

Hey, why not? :D

Make it similar to the M coupe, from the Z3's. That'd be interesting.

[ruim20]

well that sucks! 3 series all over... the Nuvolari had so much to offer!!! :(

[The_Canuck]

well that sucks! 3 series all over... the Nuvolari had so much to offer!!! :(

We'll have to see what they put in it before we bash it :p

Mabye it'll be a turbocharged engine like the 335...:D

[ruim20]

We'll have to see what they put in it before we bash it :p

Mabye it'll be a turbocharged engine like the 335...:D

Not even an ION drive would save it's looks... :D

Cool avatar by the way!

[RazaBlade]

will they be making a convertible version? hard or rag top? looks good...

[Waugh-terfall]

I doubt they'd do an A5/S5/RS5 cabriolet, they've alreaady got the A4/S4/RS4 cabriolet.

[Ferrer]

I doubt they'd do an A5/S5/RS5 cabriolet, they've alreaady got the A4/S4/RS4 cabriolet.
Precisely the point is that the A5 convertible would replace the A4 convertible... ;)

It seemed that it was going to feature a folding metal roof, however lately canvas roof rumours have gained force. I guess nothing is decided yet.

[hchanhle]

I don't think Audi is breaking any ground design wise with this car... You find typical audi styling cues that you find from the a4 to the a8 (making all their car look alike). All in all, I think Audi designs are very unadventurous and somehow cold (BMW are much more courageous and influential with their designs even though they are controversial)... So this "new" a5 will please most, but most likely not stir any passion.

[Duell]

.. So this "new" a5 will please most, but most likely not stir any passion.

It will not stir any passion ? Maybe you are right. But because it is a Audi it doesn't need to be so extrovert. In my opinion Audi represents the following, Cool, conservative and power without being to obvious.

I think they have done a great job on this one. But maybe I'd rather have a S6 Avant :D :D

[Vaigra]

Audi A5 #2

The new Audi A5

Audi is launching a fascinating new model series for its entry into a highly emotionally charged segment of the market: the A5 successfully unites the acclaimed Audi design language and thrilling dynamic driving performance, and combines generous refinement with the brand’s characteristic quality and sophistication. Its progressive design gives the new coupé an appearance that is both elegant and dynamic. With its muscular FSI and TDI engines, its entirely newly developed high-precision running gear, and a raft of innovative, luxury-class equipment features, the Audi A5 has been crafted to be a modern grand tourer, a touring coupé in the best tradition.


The Audi S5 is an extra sporty offering to complete the new series. A powerful V8 FSI engine gives the S5 a dynamic edge, which underscores its athletically accentuated design. The A5 and S5 are available to order from 6 March 2007 with the first vehicles due for delivery from June.

The Nuvolari quattro concept car of 2003 gave a first taste of Audi’s vision for a powerful and expertly styled coupé with a high performance potential and a progressive, sophisticated design – a bold step into the future.

Many elements from the Nuvolari have been adopted in the Audi A5. The new coupé is a clear and unique statement of sportiness and elegance. At the same time, the A5 offers a driving experience characterised by exhilarating dynamic performance and excellent comfort over long distances.

With a length of 4.63 m, the Audi A5 clearly belongs to a superior class of coupé. Four comfortable seats and a load volume of 455 litres make this car a comfortable long-distance tourer. The dynamic performance is supplied by FSI and TDI engines with rated power ranging from 125 to 195 kW (170 to 265 bhp). All engines share highly eco-friendly and efficient characteristics.

The engines’ power can be transmitted by either front-wheel drive or quattro four-wheel drive and a six-speed manual or automatic gearbox. The running gear developed for the A5 is entirely new and combines agile handling with the utmost driving safety

The design
Quite simply a desirable coupé

For coupé buyers, emotion plays a major role in their choice of car; the most important reason to buy, in the case of a sporty two-door car, is the design. And on that point the Audi A5 genuinely speaks for itself – its design takes Audi’s progressive and stylish design language to new heights. The sporty silhouette, the precisely drawn lines, which gracefully interplay with the powerful surfaces, the expressive front face, and the equally distinctive tail end yield a wholly desirable coupé. “The Audi A5 is the most beautiful car I have ever designed”, says Walter de’Silva, Head of Volkswagen Group Design, with absolute conviction.

Sportiness, elegance and dynamic performance are characteristics common to all of today’s Audi models. Naturally the A5 is particularly rich in these elements of the Audi “genetic code”, and the design makes that immediately clear: the coupé’s proportions, for instance, are characterised by a very wide and low stance, a short front overhang and a long, flowing transition from the C pillar to the tail end.

Lines and surfaces play with light and shadows

An expression of determination characterises the features of the front end: the face bears the hallmark of the new Audi in the form of the single-frame grille, and its right-angled headlights and large air inlets reinforce the architectural impression of breadth in the car’s face-on outline. The same holds true for the rear: the distinct horizontal lines and wide, powerfully styled tail lights, which seem to push outwards, underscore the sporting intent of the A5.

The side line is dominated by the mighty trapezoidal C pillar. This not only emphasises the car’s sporty appeal, but also creates a look reminiscent of the legendary Audi Ur-quattro.

A second stylistic tribute to Audi’s four-wheel drive pioneer model can be found in the marked outline of the wheel arches, with their curving contours drawn into the wide shoulder line. The lines and surfaces of the Audi A5 play with light and shadows, bringing its shape to life and endowing the body with the sculpted intensity that makes Audi design unique.

Audi’s customary devotion to detail is particularly evident in the headlights: their elaborate styling perfectly reflects precision and high-tech engineering. The daytime running lights, comprising a strip of eight LEDs on each side, make the A5’s xenon plus headlights absolutely unmistakeable.

The interior
The luxurious perfection of an Audi

The interior, the interface between person and vehicle, is characterised by ergonomic design and functionality, and equally by the exclusiveness of the materials selected and Audi’s typically superb build quality. An atmosphere in which you feel perfectly at ease, even on long journeys – that is the key feature of the A5 interior.

Making interior design a high-quality tactile experience

The entire cockpit architecture is clearly focused on the driver and brings together the instruments and the centre console to form one unit. The animated shapes, the precision of the workmanship, and the sophisticated design of the controls – these represent a visual delight that is also a joy to touch. The interior design provides a high-quality tactile experience each time you drive the Audi A5. One example of the all-encompassing design approach can be found in the door panel trim, where the controls, inlays, armrest and stowage compartment combine to form one visually harmonious unit.

The instrument panel, with the characteristic droplet-shaped surrounds for the speedometer and rev counter, does feature typical Audi styling elements, but in all its details has been developed as a new design.

The A5 also has the screen of the MMI operating system positioned at an ergonomically perfect high position in the cockpit. A new advanced version of the acclaimed intuitive MMI operating logic makes the wide range of functions easy to understand.

Key with a sharp memory
The new key is another design item that also provides sophisticated functionality. With its soft contours and pleasant surfaces it sits beautifully in the hand. But above all, the innovative key dispenses with the conventional key bit. This is possible because it communicates electronically with the vehicle’s electrical system as soon as it is inserted into the cockpit. It can also store important information, such as the vehicle’s current mileage or warning messages from the Audi A5’s driver information system. The data are always up-to-date and available to allow after-sales staff at a dealership to receive the vehicle for servicing quickly and easily.

The engines
For powerful driving pleasure

A coupé with a distinctly sporty character requires powerful and highly efficient engines. For the Audi A5, power is provided by innovative technologies across the board. All engines supplied for the new model series feature direct fuel injection, for which the petrol engines employ the FSI concept and the diesels are equipped with common rail TDI. This gives all engines a thrilling free-revving character, allowing them to effortlessly unwind their generous torque with optimum energy efficiency. The refined TDI engines with their outstanding sporting talents suit the A5 just as well as the petrol units. Which type to go for is entirely a question of the driver’s personal preference. All of the engines impressively demonstrate that efficiency and driving pleasure are by no means mutually exclusive.

FSI – The high-tech engine with variable valve lift

The top-of-the-range petrol engine in the Audi A5 is a new 3.2-litre FSI with innovative valve gear comprising the Audi valvelift system. This innovation varies the valve lift between two levels. To achieve this, sets of sliding cams are mounted directly on the intake camshafts. These feature two sets of adjacent cam contours for small and large valve lift. Which cam is used to open the intake valves depends on the power demand at any one time.

The effect is an appreciable increase in engine efficiency. The driver benefits from greater power and improved driveability, while enjoying a marked reduction in fuel consumption. At the wheel of an Audi A5 3.2 FSI there is a whole 195 kW (265 bhp) of power output available and a superb torque of 330 Nm in a broad rev band of 3,000 to 5,000 rpm, ensuring blistering acceleration at all times. Within 6.1 seconds the 3.2 FSI quattro with manual six-speed gearbox sprints from 0 to 100 km/h. The top speed is limited to 250 km/h. Despite this thrilling performance potential the car’s fuel consumption is only 8.7 litres per 100 kilometers (3.2 FSI multitronic).

The all-new high-tech four-cylinder unit in the Audi A5 also does full justice to Audi’s reputation for leading engine technology. The 1.8 TFSI, delivering 125 kW (170 bhp), will be available from autumn 2007. It combines turbocharger technology with petrol direct injection and provides a burst of acceleration and pulling power unrivalled in its class from virtually every rev band. Just as it did with its TDI engines, Audi has accomplished a pioneering feat of engineering with its turbocharged petrol units, taking spark-ignition engines to a new dimension in fuel consumption and driveability.

Thanks to a whole raft of technical innovations in the petrol engines, their fuel economy has been significantly improved, thus yielding a marked reduction in CO2 emissions.

[Vaigra]

TDI – Impressive performance combined with exemplary eco-friendliness

The V6 TDI units from Audi set the standards in their segment. Their copious torque and outstanding fuel economy accompanied by superb refinement mean that they score highly on all counts. In addition to all this, they offer eco-friendly performance that is hard to beat. The TDI engines fitted in the Audi A5, for instance, are equipped with a diesel particulate filter as standard.
The sporty top-of-the-range TDI in the new Audi coupé is the thoroughly revised 3.0-litre engine. It now delivers a power output of 176 kW (240 bhp) and its maximum torque is an immense 500 Nm. But that is not all: with its supreme 0 to 100 km/h acceleration time of 5.9 seconds and a top speed of 250 km/h, the Audi A5 3.0 TDI quattro is one of the sportiest vehicles of its kind. Added to this, it also offers an average fuel consumption of just 7.2 litres per 100 km!
The second TDI engine in the Audi A5 range offers even better fuel economy. The 2.7-litre V6 engine delivers 140 kW (190 bhp) and is an ideal complement to the multitronic gearbox for the comfort-minded coupé driver. Nevertheless, its performance figures are more than impressive: it offers a top speed of 232 km/h with an average fuel economy of 6.7 litres per 100 km. On top of that, its acceleration time of just 7.6 seconds confirms the sporty credentials of this version of the Audi A5.
The Audi A5 2.7 TDI multitronic is equipped with front-wheel drive, while the 3-litre TDI with manual gearbox constantly supplies power to all four wheels. As in numerous other Audi models, the quattro permanent four-wheel drive in the Audi A5 enhances driving dynamics by distributing 40 percent of engine power to the front axle and 60 percent to the rear axle at its basic setting. The system adjusts the power distribution depending on the situation and road surface grip.

multitronic with eight forward gears and sport mode

In the standard specification, the Audi A5 powertrain features a six-speed manual gearbox with sporty ratios. This gearbox offers uniform short gear lever travel and smooth, easy gear changes.
The continuously variable multitronic automatic gearbox, which offers unparalleled power transmission comfort, is available in conjunction with the 3.2 FSI and the 2.7 TDI engines. At the same time its high efficiency and tall maximum transmission ratio make it very economical on fuel, since it operates in the most efficient range at all times. Whenever the driver prefers a more sporty driving style, the gearbox can be switched to a manual mode with eight set speeds.

The running gear
Precise instruments for agile handling

Even when stationary, the Audi A5 makes a dynamic impression: the wide track, large wheels and short overhangs not only characterise its muscular appearance, they also form part of the formula that produces its peerless active driving feel. The Audi A5 coupé defines the new standard in its class for precise steering response, outstanding directional stability and superb agility, while also offering first-class ride comfort.
The Audi engineers have achieved this with a completely new design of running gear: the front wheels are located by a five-link suspension arrangement with upper and lower wishbones. The wishbones are mounted on a subframe, which is firmly bolted to the body for high rigidity. Another completely reengineered component is the rack and pinion steering. It is located in front of the front axle close to the wheel centre line, and enhances the car’s very agile handling by its direct transmission of the steering forces.

Long wheelbase, short overhang

Overall, the front axle is located a long way forward for a longitudinal engine configuration with front- and four-wheel drive. This new vehicle architecture makes it possible to have a long wheelbase with a short front overhang, and to optimise the axle load distribution. These are all additional elements that enhance the supreme handling qualities of the new Audi A5. To accomplish this special design, the engineers used a trick adopted from the Audi A8: the front axle differential is located in front of the clutch.
A key element of the rear running gear is its trapezoidal-link rear suspension with completely new kinematics. It provides a high degree of ride comfort combined with excellent directional stability. At both the front and rear, the main components of the suspension are made of aluminium. The generous dimensions of the brakes are designed to match the car’s high performance ratings. The braking force can be precisely modulated and the kinematics of the new rear suspension significantly reduce the so-called braking dive effect.
The standard electromechanical parking brake, familiar from the A8 and A6, is activated via a button next to the gear lever. The A5 is also available with the option of Audi hold assist: this ensures that the car cannot accidentally roll back after stopping on a hill.

The body
Generous and superlatively solid

The Audi A5 is nothing if not generous to its driver and passengers. Its generosity begins with its luxurious spaciousness – not just for the front row. On the rear seats, too, the A5 is a full-size touring car. Likewise, with a luggage compartment volume of 455 litres, there is always space left over for a bit of extra shopping, even on a long tour. The loading width of one metre allows easy stowage of large items of luggage, and even well-filled golf bags will fit widthways into the Audi A5 boot. The rear seat folds in two separate sections, and can be released conveniently from the boot.
The extremely high bodyshell rigidity, typical of an Audi, provides the basis both for the car’s crisp handling and its agreeable feeling of solidness and comfort. In the development of the A5 the engineers have successfully combined supreme sporty performance and agility with outstanding vibrational comfort. Its lightweight body construction was achieved using the latest technologies, such as metal plates with varying wall thicknesses (tailored blanks), combined spot welded and bonded joints, and the use of aluminium, for example, in the front wings.
The smooth surfaces of the additional underbody panel enhance the Audi A5’s inherently good aerodynamics. One small but typical example of the extensive high-precision work carried out in the wind tunnel can be seen in the spoilers moulded into the sides of the tail lights.

The equipment
Luxury class high-tech features

Where equipment is concerned, the Audi A5 is characterised by a comprehensive standard specification. This includes 17-inch alloy wheels along with automatic air conditioning, the MMI information and operating system, an audio system with CD player and separate screen, and the automatically opening boot lid. The new comfort key and the electromechanical parking brake are also among the items included in the standard package.
The list of options offers even more luxury class high-tech: Audi adaptive light combines bi-xenon headlights with the dynamic cornering light system and the LED strip of daytime running lights. Keyless access for the doors and boot and keyless engine starting are all features of the advanced key system. The deluxe automatic air conditioning system with three temperature zones allows the passengers to adjust the climate for their individual comfort. The extra-large panoramic tilting roof lends the A5 an especially generous feeling of open space. The Audi parking system advanced features a rearview camera, helping to make tricky parking in cramped multi-storeys easily negotiable.
The infotainment system is a special highlight of the options range. Alongside the navigation system with DVD including MMI, DAB digital radio reception and DVB TV reception, this system also offers pure delight for the ears: the premium sound system for the Audi A5 is supplied by the Danish hi-fi specialist Bang & Olufsen. It comprises 14 speakers, 500 watts of music output, surround sound, active driving noise compensation and, above all, the expertise of a worldwide renowned specialist for high-end audio equipment, making every drive in the Audi A5 a delightful acoustic experience.

Customisation
A made-to-measure coupé

The decision to drive a coupé is always a very emotional one. That makes it all the more important for a coupé to reflect the personal wishes and express the ideas of it owner. If any coupé can fulfil special requests, it is the Audi A5: how about seat side sections in stone blue Valcona leather, accompanied by seat centre sections in star silver leather, with matching interior headlining also in star silver? To go with that, you can add aluminium hologram inlays or maybe rather laurel wood? The customer has the choice: in terms of design variety, the Audi A5 is luxury class in the full sense of the word, with two types of cloth, two leather varieties, the combination of leather and Alcantara, five different inlays and a wide range of interior colour schemes. Above and beyond that, the Audi exclusive programme from quattro GmbH can fulfil virtually every individual wish.
For those looking for an even stronger sporting intent in the A5, the Audi S line offers an extra-dynamic look. The S line exterior package comprises, for example, more distinctive bumpers at the front and rear. The S line sports package includes items such as sports seats, steering wheel and gear lever in perforated leather, black headlining, and special inlays. Even here, there is scope for individual choice between matt aluminium, piano finish black or Vavona wood assam grey. The 18-inch alloy wheels and exclusive paint finishes underscore the look of the S line sports package, while the sports suspension provides a distinct driving feel

[Thanas]

I really love audi! bmw with 3 coupe really copied the rear lights of audi brand. I liked bmw but this was really a stupid thing to do. Now audi gave it's answer to bmw with this astonishing coupe. I can't wait to see the RS5 winning the bmw m3!

[Ingolstadt]

Precisely the point is that the A5 convertible would replace the A4 convertible... ;)

It seemed that it was going to feature a folding metal roof, however lately canvas roof rumours have gained force. I guess nothing is decided yet.

Exactly my point! Why the hell the bother to launch an A5, which everyone will pitch it against the 335 Coupe whereas there's already a 2 door RS4 cabrio. ot's not that hard to make that cabrio hard top right?

[Ferrer]

Exactly my point! Why the hell the bother to launch an A5, which everyone will pitch it against the 335 Coupe whereas there's already a 2 door RS4 cabrio. ot's not that hard to make that cabrio hard top right?
Well, they went the other way round. First they launch the coupe, and later the A5 convertible will replace the A4 convertible.

[Vaigra]

Audi A5 #3

[Vaigra]

Audi A5 #4

[Vaigra]

Audi A5 #5

[Vaigra]

Audi A5 #6

[The_Canuck]

DAMN YOU APPLE! DAMN YOU TO HELL!

Stupid, not so subtle ads...

But the car looks great :)

[Vaigra]

Audi A5 #7

[Vaigra]

Audi A5 #8

[Luxurioux]

This car is beautiful.

[Vaigra]

Audi A5 #9

[Clivey]

DAMN YOU APPLE! DAMN YOU TO HELL!

Stupid, not so subtle ads...

What the hell are you blithering on about?

[Vaigra]

What the hell are you blithering on about?
See post #4 pic #4.

[Clivey]

See post #4 pic #4.

Post 4 is by silverhawk, is nothing to do with Apple, or an Apple, and has no pictures attached...:confused:

[Vaigra]

Post 4 is by silverhawk, is nothing to do with Apple, or an Apple, and has no pictures attached...:confused:
See the post which says "Audi A5 #4"

[Clivey]

See the post which says "Audi A5 #4"

Oh, lol. I wondered where I left my PowerBook.:rolleyes:

I've always compared Apple to Audi, the style of their products is very similar. Those 'lifestyle' photos show the kind of lives these companies think that they can create, they're using those products to complement each other so that a certain "cool" factor is associated with them.

Mind you, Apple computers are shown in loads of adverts for other products and on TV programmes all the time. It was only the other day I was watching something about the standards of so-called "ethical" animal farming where the presenters were sitting in front of a MacBook Pro watching the undercover footage taken on various livestock farms.

IMO product placement is only a problem when it repeatedly smacks you in the face, such as FoMoCo products in 007 films and DaimlerChrysler vehicles in Rainbow Six Vegas (it's not realistic how practically ever car on the set is from the same company, whereas it's more realistic that the person who owns an Audi may have an Apple computer).

[The_Canuck]

Oh, lol. I wondered where I left my PowerBook.:rolleyes:

I've always compared Apple to Audi, the style of their products is very similar. Those 'lifestyle' photos show the kind of lives these companies think that they can create, they're using those products to complement each other so that a certain "cool" factor is associated with them.

Mind you, Apple computers are shown in loads of adverts for other products and on TV programmes all the time. It was only the other day I was watching something about the standards of so-called "ethical" animal farming where the presenters were sitting in front of a MacBook Pro watching the undercover footage taken on various livestock farms.

IMO product placement is only a problem when it repeatedly smacks you in the face, such as FoMoCo products in 007 films and DaimlerChrysler vehicles in Rainbow Six Vegas (it's not realistic how practically ever car on the set is from the same company, whereas it's more realistic that the person who owns an Audi may have an Apple computer).

They're TV ads are pretty funny but get annoying after awhile, also there is this one radio ad thats really annoying and pretends to not be an ad. But otherwise it doesn't bother me, I just thought the one in the Audi pic was so obvious.

[Ferrer]

Ingolstadt, 2009-06-17
The new Audi A5 Sportback
As elegant as a coupe, as practical as an Avant

The brand with the four rings leads the pack with a new vehicle concept: The Audi A5 Sportback combines the best of different automotive worlds. It is as emotional and elegant as a coupe, as comfortable as a sedan, and as practical as an Avant. The Sportback joins the Coupé and Cabriolet as the third member of the A5 model family – and at the same time creates a new segment. With an exciting design, great everyday utility and highly efficient and powerful TFSI, FSI and TDI engines, the A5 Sportback will arrive at Audi dealerships in September. The car will be open for ordering with an entry price of EUR 36,050 for the 2.0 TDI version. A version with an even more attractive price will follow in the middle of 2010. This will make the A5 Sportback the entry model for the A5 model range.

The A5 Sportback represents a milestone in car design. The five-door coupe excels in its elegant, elongated, sporty profile. The large hatchback fits perfectly into the tail-end styling. The spoiler lip and the diffuser insert provide contrast and emphasize the athletic tautness of the elongated contour. The coupe-like silhouette is the result of a roof section with a long, tapering roofline that is moderately lower by 36 mm (1.42 inches) than the A4 Sedan and of the short overhangs at the front and rear as well as the long wheelbase of 2,810 mm (9.22 feet) and the four frameless doors with their slim, dynamic window styling. The unusual hatchback design is distinctively emblematic of the vehicle's excellent functionality. With the Sportback, the designers of the Avant are setting trends in tail-end design while combining sportiness, comfort and utility in a completely new way.

The unique functional concept in conjunction with the emotion-packed design creates a cutting-edge mix of coupe and Avant. The baggage volume of 480 liters (17.0 cubic feet) nearly equals that of the A4 Avant, and it has an impressive 980 liters (34.6 cubic feet) with the rear seatbacks folded down.

The A5 Sportback provides a full measure of comfort on all four seats and convenient entry and exit through every door. Despite the fact that its exterior height is less than that of the A4 Sedan and that its roof tapers at the rear, the Sportback has comparable headroom and legroom.

The powerplant of the A5 Sportback is another advance along the path of innovative technologies Audi has been charting: All engines are of the direct injection type – the diesel versions are sophisticated common rail TDI units while the gasoline engines are based on the FSI concept. All engines meet the EU5 exhaust emission standard. The diesel versions are equipped with particulate filters.

Initially the A5 Sportback will be available with a choice of two gasoline and three diesel engines. The two gasoline versions, the 2.0 TFSI quattro with an output of 155 kW (211 hp) and 350 Nm (258 lb-ft) of torque and the 3.2-liter V6 quattro generating 195 kW (265 hp) are both equipped with the Audi valvelift system. This feature can produce more power and higher torque as well as lower fuel consumption.

The following engines are also available right from the start: the 2.0 TDI with 125 kW (170 hp), 350 Nm (258 lb-ft), a 6-speed manual gearbox and start/stop system, the 2.7 TDI with 140 kW (190 hp) and 400 Nm (295 lb-ft), and the three-liter V6 TDI with 176 kW (240 hp) plus an enormous 500 Nm (369 lb-ft) of maximum torque and quattro all-wheel drive.

The newly developed ESP control with electronic differential lock on the front axle ensures noticeably improved steering response as on the Coupé and Cabriolet and compensates effectively for change-of-load reactions - which increases driving safety.

The perfect addition to this technology package is the Audi drive select dynamic driving system – this allows the driver to choose between three different modes which influences the throttle response characteristics, the shift points for the seven-speed S tronic or multitronic transmissions, and supports the servotronic steering. If the vehicle is equipped with the MMI operating system, a fourth, freely programmable level is also available.

Audi drive select can only be ordered in conjunction with one or more of three additional technologies – adaptive shock absorber control, dynamic steering with continuously variable assistance and quattro with sport differential for the 3.0 TDI and 3.2 FSI versions.

[henk4]

As I already said, the Citroen GSA was the some sort of concept, and actually the Renault 16 pioneered this idea to a very large extent, although maybe less of a coupe...

[Ferrer]

As I already said, the Citroen GSA was the some sort of concept, and actually the Renault 16 pioneered this idea to a very large extent, although maybe less of a coupe...
I think those are more the fathers of the modern D-segment hatchbacks. This is similar but different. I guess it's more similar to the old Saabs.

As a concept I like it.

[henk4]

I think those are more the fathers of the modern D-segment hatchbacks. This is similar but different. I guess it's more similar to the old Saabs.



Also that, but I hate the arrogant PR language where it looks like Audi has come up with something unheard of before.

[Ferrer]

Also that, but I hate the arrogant PR language where it looks like Audi has come up with something unheard of before.
That's why when you are trying to decide wheter you like a car or not you should never read the press release. ;)

[henk4]

That's why when you are trying to decide wheter you like a car or not you should never read the press release. ;)

why then publish it?????

[cargirl1990]

it looks like the 5 Series Gran Turismo. and it ain't as good. ( to me that is )

[Ferrer]

why then publish it?????
For uneducated people that belive it. :)

it looks like the 5 Series Gran Turismo. and it ain't as good. ( to me that is )
It is much lower and smaller.

[cargirl1990]

For uneducated people that belive it. :)

It is much lower and smaller.

it is? i didn't realize that. but i still think it looks like a 5er Gran Turismo.

[LeonOfTheDead]

For uneducated people that belive it. :)

It is much lower and smaller.

wouldn't bet on the "smaller".


it is? i didn't realize that. but i still think it looks like a 5er Gran Turismo.

Take a 5 Series GT, add more CLS and less X5. Done.

[cargirl1990]

wouldn't bet on the "smaller".



Take a 5 Series GT, add more CLS and less X5. Done.

yeah, i can see that in the car now. and i wouldn't call it smaller than the 5er Gran Turismo either.

[Ferrer]

wouldn't bet on the "smaller".
I doubt it'll be 7er-sized.

[ScionDriver]

Also that, but I hate the arrogant PR language where it looks like Audi has come up with something unheard of before.

Because it is PR language, so you always act like you invented everything. There are no original ideas and PR is about convincing people that there are original ideas and that nothing bad happens.

[Ferrer]

Uncovered.

Spy Shots: 2010 Audi A5 Sportback reveals even more in So. Cal. (http://www.autoblog.com/2009/06/24/spy-shots-2010-audi-a5-sportback-reveals-even-more-in-so-cal/)

[IBrake4Rainbows]

That Reverse sweep pillar is getting OLD fast.

Bmw X6
BMW 5 Series GT
Audi A5 Sportback
Mitsubishi Lancer Sportback (to a lesser extent)

come up with a different resolution guys...oh wait, this is all product designed to be reactionary to your competitors! what better way to react than to ape!

[LeonOfTheDead]

I doubt it'll be 7er-sized.

surely not, as the 5 GT isn't too. The A5 is already pretty large as a coupe.

[Ferrer]

surely not, as the 5 GT isn't too. The A5 is already pretty large as a coupe.
The 5er GT is 7er sized. IIRC the wheelbase is over 3 metres. This has a wheelbase about 200mm shorter.

[LeonOfTheDead]

The 5er GT is 7er sized. IIRC the wheelbase is over 3 metres. This has a wheelbase about 200mm shorter.

lenght is 4,998 meters, wheel base is 3,070, which is indeed huge, but just wait for the new 5 Series then, it won't be much shorter, despite probably having a shorter wb.

While the A5 Coupe is 4,625 m long (wb is 2,751), the A6 (which isn't base on the same modular platform though) is 4,928 m long, with a 2,846 wb.
Considering this is a longer car than the Coupe and has a similar price if not higher than that of the A6, therefore should carry on a similar room/comfort, I honestly think the difference is nearly irrelevant at this level.

[Ferrer]

lenght is 4,998 meters, wheel base is 3,070, which is indeed huge, but just wait for the new 5 Series then, it won't be much shorter, despite probably having a shorter wb.

While the A5 Coupe is 4,625 m long (wb is 2,751), the A6 (which isn't base on the same modular platform though) is 4,928 m long, with a 2,846 wb.
Considering this is a longer car than the Coupe and has a similar price if not higher than that of the A6, therefore should carry on a similar room/comfort, I honestly think the difference is nearly irrelevant at this level.
I guess we'll have to wait for the official figures to really judge on the size, but if you are right that would effectively leave no room for the rumoured A7.

[LeonOfTheDead]

I guess we'll have to wait for the official figures to really judge on the size, but if you are right that would effectively leave no room for the rumoured A7.

I think this actually is what we call the A7.
I wouldn't use that name since probably people would associate it with the Q7, which may be a good cash cow, but a huge and heavy SUV too. Not exactly the best product to be proud of these days.

[Clivey]

Wow! An A4 HATCHBACK...!

When will other companies start to...oh...hang on...

http://www.carsurvey.org/images/vauxhall_cavalier_1.jpg :rolleyes:

In all seriousness...PLEASE!!!:p

All this is is Audi's D-segment hatch. What can it do that an Insignia / Mondeo etc. can't? Just because it's taken Audi 2 decades to catch-on doesn't mean they should be able to get away with calling it a "Sport-lifestyle-GT-X-back-tourer" and charge twice the price of what you'd pay in the real world for the equivalent Mondeo, which will probablly be just as good as a car.

Nevertheless, I predict that roads here will be full of front-wheel-drive 2.0TDI's with gazillion-inch wheels and S-line bodykits within the year.:(

What Audi should fit is an anti-tailgating device, as some of their customers give the rest an awful name by driving like t***s most of the time!;)

It's not that they'll be bad cars - it's just that I predict that they will cost £30-40k - which is outrageously overpriced. Yes: you get a good colour and trim selection to choose from, and a comprehensive list of extortionate optional extras to choose from (like £'000s for a SatNav system that's no better than a £200 portable)...but most people will choose "office grey" as the exterior colour and drug-dealer wheels for the base model. And they'll pay the price of a Honda Accord...AND an NSX*.:rolleyes:

* A 6-month-old, well-specced Accord (Euro) should cost about £17,500 - a nice NSX can be found from about £20k.

...This is basically my problem with these so-called "premium" brands...the only premium is the price. Need I go on?

[Ferrer]

It's an Audi, so of course a Mondeo will be better to drive, cheaper and better value. However if you really feel the need for an Audi you might as well get a Seat Exeo.

However I disagree that all premium cars are pointless and you would be better off with a normal car. There are those which in my opinion are worth it, maybe not objectively, but we are car enthusiasts so we are not used to deal with objectivity.

I mean would you say no to a Brera? You are probably better off with a Punto, which looks a bit like a Maserati at the front and it's massively cheaper. Faster too...

Would you say no to a 335i? A Hyundai Sonata will get you from A to B just as easily, just as well at a fraction of the price.

Or why bother about the Jag XF when you can have a piece of magnificient french engineering in the Peugeot 607. Surely it's rubbish but you are saving a ton of money...

I would say that preimium cars have their place, even if sometimes it's hard to justify their existence on objective grounds. But we are petrolheads, so we don't care about objectivity. For us cars aren't just a way to get from A to B. For us cars are a way of life.

And that's were premium manufacturers come. They can offer that little extra somthing that a normal car can't, because it's designed to appeal as many people as possible.

[Revo]

Ay, two UCPs biggest drama queens in full swing. :p

I'm rather enjoying this.

[Ferrer]

Ay, two UCPs biggest drama queens in full swing. :p

I'm rather enjoying this.
Don't be a mere spectator. Join us. :)

[Clivey]

It's an Audi, so of course a Mondeo will be better to drive, cheaper and better value. However if you really feel the need for an Audi you might as well get a Seat Exeo.

I agree on the "cheaper and better value" points...but actually, the newer Audis are said to be very good to drive (new A4, S4 etc.)...my point was just: "What exactly justifies them being at least £10k more than the equivalent Mondeo" (£10k being an example)?

I could accept a small premium...but surely someone spending £30k on an A4 2.0TDI needs their head examining?

Some manufacturers are charging over £3,000 for a set of 18" alloy wheels these days - any they're not any lighter, stonger etc. than the standard set. - You could buy a full set of "proper" racing wheels for less!


However I disagree that all premium cars are pointless and you would be better off with a normal car. There are those which in my opinion are worth it, maybe not objectively, but we are car enthusiasts so we are not used to deal with objectivity.

Again, agreed that SOME are worth it - it's just that most of the common examples are vastly overpriced. The equivalent Audi A3 to my car costs over £21,000 new...and that's for a 1.9TDi 105ps...and to be honest, I'd rather have my C4 even if they were the same price.


I mean would you say no to a Brera? You are probably better off with a Punto, which looks a bit like a Maserati at the front and it's massively cheaper. Faster too...

Lol, actually I would! I don't like the Brera's portly rear end (the detailing is exquisite but the shape is bulbous). I'd definitely have a 159 or Spider, though.;)

Speaking of which, the "real world" prices for the 159 and Spider aren't nearly as bad as some of the "premium" brands.


Would you say no to a 335i? A Hyundai Sonata will get you from A to B just as easily, just as well at a fraction of the price.

Oh no it wouldn't!!! :p;)


Or why bother about the Jag XF when you can have a piece of magnificient french engineering in the Peugeot 607. Surely it's rubbish but you are saving a ton of money...

Ah...but the Jag XF is actually an exception to the general "premium" car rule. Even the base model (3.0 Luxury: £33,900) comes with Sat Nav, Leather seats, Bluetooth and an auto 'box as standard. Spec the equivalent 5'er and it'll be £thousands more!

Actually, the RRPs for the 5-series range would be OK if they were better-specced as standard.


I would say that preimium cars have their place, even if sometimes it's hard to justify their existence on objective grounds. But we are petrolheads, so we don't care about objectivity. For us cars aren't just a way to get from A to B. For us cars are a way of life. And that's were premium manufacturers come. They can offer that little extra somthing that a normal car can't, because it's designed to appeal as many people as possible.

Oh sod it...!:D I won't attempt to reply individually to every single point you make, but I'll sum it up like this:

- Generally speaking I agree with everything you say here.

- IMO Some cars do deserve to command a premium over others (most BMWs, Jags (apart from the X-type), Mercedes-Benz, the better-driving Quattro Audis etc.).

- However, some of the premiums demanded are simply silly - for example, the price of aforementioned 335i once you've added all the optional extras that you want in a BMW (Xenons, SatNav, Leather).

- This is why I find the Cadillac / Jaguar / Lexus approach more acceptable. You get most of what you want for the LIST PRICE.

- As an example, the 525iSE specced to the same level as the XF 3.0 Luxury costs approximately £5k more. IMO, you are not getting a car that is worth £5,000 more than the Jag.

- Another example: You can pick-up a brand new Insignia SRI Nav 2.0T (220ps) 4x4 for under £20k at a Vauxhall dealer*. The equivalent A4 would be around £30,000. I've been in both, they're both very nice, but I couldn't find a reason for Audi to be asking for a massive £10,000 more.

* Actually, I've just found one with just 5k miles on the clock for under £17k.

- I could, however, justify spending £25k on a 130i M-Sport. You DO actually get something for your extra money. You get a sports car with the flexibility of a hatchback...a fabulous, fun RWD chassis with a brilliant engine and gearbox (which practically no-one else offers these days), a well-made, driver-orientated interior and attention to detail that's hard for others to beat.

An A3, however, is just a Golf with some extra chrome, fancy lights and some nice detailing.

Do you see what I mean?

[Clivey]

Ay, two UCPs biggest drama queens in full swing. :p

I'm rather enjoying this.

:rolleyes:

I see my reputation precedes me (Actually, I had no idea I was considered a "drama queen"!!!) - Is it because of my strong opinions?:p:D

Just try and tell me (without laughing) that you'd spend over £21,000 on an Audi A3 1.9TDi(105ps).

[Ferrer]

Do you see what I mean?
Completely. Audis are shit. But I already knew that... :p

I agree with all of what you say except for one thing. Extras. If they are fitted nice, but no having them wouldn't make me change my opinion what car I'd have. Furthermore most them rarely get used and what they basically do is weight the car down with unnecessary stuff, making everything (performance, handling, fuel consumption,...) worse actually.

The Jag XF is a classic case in points. Ours being an ex Jaguar Spain car is loaded with extras. And they are nice, if rarely used. The curtain for the back window for instance. Or the heated steering wheel. Or the heated seats. Even the satnav can be argues as necessary. I see cars as something to be driven, not as mobile ICEs. :)

On that basis, if you don't add premium (well, if we are being honest mainly german) cars with loads of extras they make a bit more sense financially. If not that much more... :p

[Clivey]

Completely. Audis are shit. But I already knew that... :p

Oh dear...! :p


I agree with all of what you say except for one thing. Extras. If they are fitted nice, but no having them wouldn't make me change my opinion what car I'd have. Furthermore most them rarely get used and what they basically do is weight the car down with unnecessary stuff, making everything (performance, handling, fuel consumption,...) worse actually.

The Jag XF is a classic case in points. Ours being an ex Jaguar Spain car is loaded with extras. And they are nice, if rarely used. The curtain for the back window for instance. Or the heated steering wheel. Or the heated seats. Even the satnav can be argues as necessary. I see cars as something to be driven, not as mobile ICEs. :)

Wait...you have an XF?

It depends on the car for me: The XF, 5'er, A6 etc. are supposed to be luxury cars. Therefore IMO they should have the extra kit.

But, and I don't mean to offend, I wouldn't buy a 1-series (that I intended for daily use - commuting etc.) without certain extras. I can cope with "the basics" in an old-school sports car, but I'd at least want most of the things that I currently have in my C4.

I do (and I know you'll cringe) like the "M-sport" trim level on the 1-series.


On that basis, if you don't add premium (well, if we are being honest mainly german) cars with loads of extras they make a bit more sense financially. If not that much more... :p

But your 1'er came with a plastic-rimmed steering wheel, did it not?;)

[Ferrer]

Wait...you have an XF?

But your 1'er came with a plastic-rimmed steering wheel, did it not?;)
My uncle's A6 is gone and has been replaced with a V8 Jag. :)

And by the way our 1er is quite basic... ;)

[Revo]

:rolleyes:

I see my reputation precedes me (Actually, I had no idea I was considered a "drama queen"!!!) - Is it because of my strong opinions?:p:D
Of course not. It is just that I can not see why to get so emotional over some Audi marketing BS. Or about Audi in general.

Just try and tell me (without laughing) that you'd spend over £21,000 on an Audi A3 1.9TDi(105ps).
Again, of course not.

However, it is not because of the price. Or the engine. Or the model. I quite simply do not WANT that car.

I have a mate who thinks A3 is the greatest piece of design ever. And HE is willing to pay that price. That is what matters, there is a market for that car with that price range.

Most people, including yours truly, don't make car buying decisions in a cold, calculated and rational way. There is always the mystical X-factor involved - emotion, image, legacy, memories, etc, etc. I WANT THAT. I WILL BUY IT. (hint to Harry & Paul sketch about Abramovich).

Hence, complaining about the Audis premium position is as pointless as asking "why oh why do they listen to heavy metal?" See what I mean?

[Clivey]

My uncle's A6 is gone and has been replaced with a V8 Jag. :)

VERY nice.:)


And by the way our 1er is quite basic... ;)

Got pics?

In comparison, I drive the "Enterprise"...

http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=309376&stc=1&d=1245950927

...it's very comfortable for long journeys.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3176/2942023821_9c79fb7919.jpg?v=0

[Ferrer]

I've realised I havent' taken any pictures of the interior of the 118d. I'll take some and put them up soon.

I have a mate who thinks A3 is the greatest piece of design ever. And HE is willing to pay that price. That is what matters, there is a market for that car with that price range.
I've always heard people say that (some) Alfas were style over substance. But I've always thought that, that was the case with Audis.

[Revo]

I've always heard people say that (some) Alfas were style over substance. But I've always thought that, that was the case with Audis.
I personally can see nothing wrong in having a style over substance - providing the style is right, of course.

Then there are ones of which exactly the opposite can be said - e.g. E87. Again, fine by me.

[Ferrer]

I personally can see nothing wrong in having a style over substance - providing the style is right, of course.

Then there are ones of which exactly the opposite can be said - e.g. E87. Again, fine by me.
I personally prefer substance over style, but then again I judge a car on how it makes me feel, not what it can do. So that style v substance thing may be a bit of a grey area, i.e. what I consider substance you might consider style and viceversa.

[Revo]

I personally prefer substance over style, but then again I judge a car on how it makes me feel, not what it can do. So that style v substance thing may be a bit of a grey area, i.e. what I consider substance you might consider style and viceversa.
Well said! :)

[JRodrigues]

Audi... zee evil of all zee world.. zee german bastardzzz...


P.S.: and yes, there will be an A7.

[JRodrigues]

New pic

[LeonOfTheDead]

:rolleyes:

I see my reputation precedes me (Actually, I had no idea I was considered a "drama queen"!!!) - Is it because of my strong opinions?:p:D

Just try and tell me (without laughing) that you'd spend over £21,000 on an Audi A3 1.9TDi(105ps).

I personally knew a moron who spent 41.000 € for a 2.0 TDI A3, in 2005.

[Ferrer]

I personally knew a moron who spent 41.000 € for a 2.0 TDI A3, in 2005.
What? :eek:

[LeonOfTheDead]

Audi... zee evil of all zee world.. zee german bastardzzz...


P.S.: and yes, there will be an A7.

I believe this is the A7, I just saw one Audi mule with this body style.
Otherwise, considering this will be CLS-priced, the A7 would be so expensive to kill the A8, steal customers to the Panamera, while being a good starting point for when they'll decide to producce the Estoque.
Do not want, really.


New pic

The pic is under the hide-out limit, do you have an higher res one?

[JRodrigues]

I believe this is the A7, I just saw one Audi mule with this body style.
Otherwise, considering this will be CLS-priced, the A7 would be so expensive to kill the A8, steal customers to the Panamera, while being a good starting point for when they'll decide to producce the Estoque.
Do not want, really.



The pic is under the hide-out limit, do you have an higher res one?

No.. There really is going to be a A7. Audi released some sketches of it's future cars a while ago, and they included A7 and A5 Sportback

Audi A5, A7, A8: Preview Sketches : News & Reports : Motoring : Web Wombat (http://www.webwombat.com.au/motoring/news_reports/audi-A5-A7-A8-preview-sketches.htm)

And no, I don't have a bigger picture :(

[LeonOfTheDead]

No.. There really is going to be a A7. Audi released some sketches of it's future cars a while ago, and they included A7 and A5 Sportback

Audi A5, A7, A8: Preview Sketches : News & Reports : Motoring : Web Wombat (http://www.webwombat.com.au/motoring/news_reports/audi-A5-A7-A8-preview-sketches.htm)

And no, I don't have a bigger picture :(

as the article you quoted states after the last two images, the A5 Sportback may be the same car as the A7, it isn't wrote there are two cars or that those two sketches aren't about the same car sketched in the second image.

[cargirl1990]

VERY nice.:)



Got pics?

In comparison, I drive the "Enterprise"...

http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=309376&stc=1&d=1245950927

...it's very comfortable for long journeys.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3176/2942023821_9c79fb7919.jpg?v=0

nice pics! i like the hyper speed shot. very epic.

[Clivey]

Of course not. It is just that I can not see why to get so emotional over some Audi marketing BS. Or about Audi in general.

Some of the reasons why I get "emotional" are:

- Muppets willing to pay silly prices for Audis and BMWs etc. means that the ones you do actually want become stupidly overpriced, so you can't afford them.

- The blind ignorance of the public means that many worthy alternatives, and the companies that create them, vanish because no-one dares touch anything without a premium German badge.

- Rival car companies then adopt the attitude of "Well if we can't beat them, join them" and you end-up with just about every car looking the same. This usually results in monstrous radiator grilles, paintwork that looks like it's trying to mirror the British weather and 19-inch wheels on C-segment cars.


Again, of course not.

However, it is not because of the price. Or the engine. Or the model. I quite simply do not WANT that car.

What I mean is: How would you feel if a bunch of unimaginative sheep caused the only cars that you want to drive to either disappear, or be so overpriced that they may as well have?


I have a mate who thinks A3 is the greatest piece of design ever. And HE is willing to pay that price. That is what matters, there is a market for that car with that price range.

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h251/raphaeltoo/Rapha233.jpg

"Too many self-indulgent wieners with too much bloody money!" :D


Most people, including yours truly, don't make car buying decisions in a cold, calculated and rational way. There is always the mystical X-factor involved - emotion, image, legacy, memories, etc, etc. I WANT THAT. I WILL BUY IT. (hint to Harry & Paul sketch about Abramovich).

*IDEA*

1. Buy used Skoda Superb for about £2.34 and a piece of used chewing gum
2. Buy some Audi badges for twice the price of the Skoda itself
3. Replace the badges on the Superb with the Audi badges
4. Put it up for sale for £25,000

- Then I CAN get an S4 Avant.:cool::D


Hence, complaining about the Audis premium position is as pointless as asking "why oh why do they listen to heavy metal?" See what I mean?

I understand what you mean - I agree - and wouldn't give a toss if it didn't affect me. I just wish an E92 320d was as affordable to buy and insure as an equivalent Mondeo, as there's no good reason why it shouldn't be.


I've realised I havent' taken any pictures of the interior of the 118d. I'll take some and put them up soon.

Please do. I'm actually really interested to see it.


I've always heard people say that (some) Alfas were style over substance. But I've always thought that, that was the case with Audis.

In a lot of cases, it's true. It's just that, as I've said (on here now as well as on PistonHeads :p) there are now some Audis that I would want to own.


I personally knew a moron who spent 41.000 € for a 2.0 TDI A3, in 2005.


What? :eek:

Holy crap!:eek: You could get nice examples of an E46 M3 and a 986 Boxter S for that!


nice pics! i like the hyper speed shot. very epic.

Thanks...although TBH the photo of my interior doesn't actually show it in a very good light - It doesn't look "comfortable" in that, maybe because yo ucan't see the armrests, seats etc.

[Waugh-terfall]

Clive, just one thing, you have 2 MINIs and a Mercedes... :P
Oh, and seeing as I can't PM you due to exceeding your limit, MSN!

[Clivey]

Clive, just one thing, you have 2 MINIs and a Mercedes... :P
Oh, and seeing as I can't PM you due to exceeding your limit, MSN!

I have a Citroen C4...my family have 2 Minis and an A-Class.

Both Minis are manual tuition vehicles - Bought precisely because they attract attention and people want to learn to drive in them. Yes, they do cost £'000s more than the equivalent Corsa/Fiesta, but we do get much more business as a result of driving bright-coloured Minis with vinyls all over them.

They also deliver:

- Comfort: (in the front seats)for people of all sizes due to the wide range of adjustment. - I'm 6'3" and find them very comfortable. The back seats are like those in a 911 - a token gesture for occasional use. You can also fit a surprising amount in the back with the rear seats folded!
- Economy: 48 mpg (Mini One D) in driving school conditions is impressive!
- Handling: not necessary, but nice nonetheless)
- An otherwise top drive compared to rivals, which is appreciated by pupils
- Good visibility: Good in any car, but great for learning to drive
- Residual values. Because they rack-up 45k miles a year.

The Mercedes is an automatic tuition vehicle, also used to teach disabled people how to drive. - Bought because it was actually the cheapest* car that met our requirements, specifically:

- Air Conditioning
- Automatic gearbox (of course)
- Electric Mirrors (particularly useful for disabled drivers)
- Easy for a disabled/elderly person to get into
- Good all-round visibility
- It needed to be relatively simple, without too many small / complicated buttons everywhere, for obvious reasons.
- Large boot to accommodate wheelchairs etc.
- It also needed to be a 5-door because my family lacked a practical car that they could all comfortably fit into.

* It's a 2003 model that was bought earlier this year with just 7k miles on the clock!

They have bad points though...and none of them would have been purchased had they not been for the business.

[Ferrer]

In a lot of cases, it's true. It's just that, as I've said (on here now as well as on PistonHeads :p) there are now some Audis that I would want to own.
Really? Which ones? I'd be interested in trying out the R8, and maybe I'd like it. And then some of the classic 5 cylinder engined monsters. But other than that I wouldn't touch one with a bargepole that's for sure...

I'll take some pics of the interior of the BMW and put them up this weekend. But it's certainly nowhere near as hightech as your Citroën, nor is it as posh as other Bimmers. It has a basic interior with a manual aircon, standard steering wheel and black cloth seats.

[Kitdy]

What's wrong with the S8? Is it really nose heavy too?

[Ferrer]

What's wrong with the S8? Is it really nose heavy too?
I can only assume it is since it shares the same layout as all the other big Audis. And if you want a big saloon with weight saving aluminium technology, what the matter with the Jag XJ?

[Kitdy]

I can only assume it is since it shares the same layout as all the other big Audis. And if you want a big saloon with weight saving aluminium technology, what the matter with the Jag XJ?

There's nothing the matter with the XJ, but the S8 has that bombin' engine.

[JRodrigues]

What's wrong with the S8? Is it really nose heavy too?

Don't you know? It has 4 rings at the front! :D

[Ferrer]

Don't you know? It has 4 rings at the front! :D
I'd really want to know what do you see in Audis. Have you driven some? If yes, what do you like about them?

[Kitdy]

Does anyone have the front/rear weight balance of the S8? I've tried Road and Track, Carfolio, and Audi's Canadian and UK websites and have failed.

Thanks in advance.

Ferrer, maybe the S8 is good! I seem to recall reading good things about it - maybe the steering feel is dead. But then again, isn't the steering feel dead in an XJ, 7 Series, and S-Class anyways?

[Ferrer]

Does anyone have the front/rear weight balance of the S8? I've tried Road and Track, Carfolio, and Audi's Canadian and UK websites and have failed.

Thanks in advance.

Ferrer, maybe the S8 is good! I seem to recall reading good things about it - maybe the steering feel is dead. But then again, isn't the steering feel dead in an XJ, 7 Series, and S-Class anyways?
Well I don't know, I haven't driven any of them. What I can tell you is that XF v A6 it's the Jag which is the better drivers car by far. And the same can be said about A3 v 1er.

[cargirl1990]

i just like the TT and R8.

[LeonOfTheDead]

What's wrong with the S8? Is it really nose heavy too?

It's not a problem of an heavy nose, it just handle well if you drive "sporty". If you are really pushing it becomes like a bitch, and don't you dare to turn off the ESP. Description was "it seems like it has been bitten by a tarantula".


There's nothing the matter with the XJ, but the S8 has that bombin' engine.

That's the problem probably, the car doesn't seem to have been tuned enough for it.


Does anyone have the front/rear weight balance of the S8? I've tried Road and Track, Carfolio, and Audi's Canadian and UK websites and have failed.

Thanks in advance.

Ferrer, maybe the S8 is good! I seem to recall reading good things about it - maybe the steering feel is dead. But then again, isn't the steering feel dead in an XJ, 7 Series, and S-Class anyways?

The steering wheel is useless.
Weight distribution is 52 front and 48 rear.
I got it from...wait for it...Yahoo! (http://autos.yahoo.com/2009_audi_s8_sedan-specs/)
shame, looking for a more reliable source anyway

[Ferrer]

It's not a problem of an heavy nose, it just handle well if you drive "sporty". If you are really pushing it becomes like a bitch, and don't you dare to turn off the ESP. Description was "it seems like it has been bitten by a tarantula".
I disagree with that. A really good car has to feel well at 60km/h and at 160km/h. That's the great thing about proper drivers cars, you don't need to go a million to feel how great they are.

[LeonOfTheDead]

I disagree with that. A really good car has to feel well at 60km/h and at 160km/h. That's the great thing about proper drivers cars, you don't need to go a million to feel how great they are.

What I meant is that the car is good only if you drive fast, but not that fast. A bit more and it's like a brick on wheel.
By my dictionary, this ain't good.

[RacingManiac]

The steering wheel is useless.
Weight distribution is 52 front and 48 rear.
I got it from...wait for it...Yahoo! (http://autos.yahoo.com/2009_audi_s8_sedan-specs/)
shame, looking for a more reliable source anyway



Believable...I mean it is a A8, with long wheelbase to offset the issue with the front hanging engine...the heavy nose problem really gets more severe with the smaller cars on shorter wheelbase, with the big motor...

[JRodrigues]

I believe this is the A7, I just saw one Audi mule with this body style.
Otherwise, considering this will be CLS-priced, the A7 would be so expensive to kill the A8, steal customers to the Panamera, while being a good starting point for when they'll decide to producce the Estoque.
Do not want, really.



The pic is under the hide-out limit, do you have an higher res one?

Audi A7 Sportback due in late 2010 - Worldcarfans (http://www.worldcarfans.com/109070220249/audi-a7-sportback-due-in-late-2010)
;)

[LeonOfTheDead]

I read those rumors also on leftlanenews, and I'm still wondering if the A7 si going to fight against the CLS, who's the contender for the A5???
Also, they keep comparing the CLS with the Rapide and other cars, but I can't see that happening if not with the AMG version, and CLS=/= CLS AMG

[Ferrer]

I read those rumors also on leftlanenews, and I'm still wondering if the A7 si going to fight against the CLS, who's the contender for the A5???
There isn't any (yet). The A5 SB should be D-segment sized.

[LeonOfTheDead]

There isn't any (yet). The A5 SB should be D-segment sized.

I look at it (spy shots that is), it's like a CLS, and it doesn't look much smaller.
So it's a sort of Volkswagen CC in Audi clothes? I'd have called it A4 Sportback, not A5.

[JRodrigues]

Audi A7 Sportback Concept (http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/forum/matts-hi-res-hide-out/38510-audi-sportback-concept.html?highlight=sportback)

[LeonOfTheDead]

Audi A7 Sportback Concept (http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/forum/matts-hi-res-hide-out/38510-audi-sportback-concept.html?highlight=sportback)

there is no mention whatsoever to it being an A5 or an A7, it's just "Sportback".
this is not the name game.

[JRodrigues]

Whatever.. believe in what you want.

[LeonOfTheDead]

Whatever.. believe in what you want.

Sure. It wouldn't be the first (neither the last) I could be wrong, but the same goes for journalists and websites.

[Ferrer]

I look at it (spy shots that is), it's like a CLS, and it doesn't look much smaller.
So it's a sort of Volkswagen CC in Audi clothes? I'd have called it A4 Sportback, not A5.
I guess they call it the A5, because the A4 Coupe is called the A5.

[cargirl1990]

I look at it (spy shots that is), it's like a CLS, and it doesn't look much smaller.
So it's a sort of Volkswagen CC in Audi clothes? I'd have called it A4 Sportback, not A5.

what do you think of the Pheaton/CC? im in love with it.

[LeonOfTheDead]

what do you think of the Pheaton/CC? im in love with it.

I don't mind the Phaeton, nice and understated. Definitely not my car, and definitely not an VW.
The CC seems good looking, but the lateral view of the rear part is working, it's like a bubble, it's not fluent as it should considering which kind of car a style it is.
I don't think as a VW is the right car. VW has expanded too much it's line-up and now it doesn't have a specific image or role in the VAG group.
If not as an Audi, the CC shouls have be sold as a Seat, with more sportiness attached, as they keep saying they want Seat as their own Alfa Romeo.
To b honest, Skoda itself is going "off topic" in my opinion. They keep selling, sure, so probably their plans are working, but to my eyes is just all VW and a big mess.

[JRodrigues]

Bigger picture of the boot

[Revo]

First images of the actual car, prices are starting from 30,000€.

Greetings to Ferrer and Clivey.

Audi A5 Sportback #3

[Revo]

Audi A5 Sportback #4

[LeonOfTheDead]

I was waiting for something...more.
that copy and paste of the CLS rear end didn't work so well.
Price is interesting, could kill the Passat CC if not the A4 itself, as this doesn't appear so different from it as the CLS from the E, or the CC from the standard Passat.
All in all, yawn.

[Ferrer]

I like the concept of a sports hatch.

[LeonOfTheDead]

I like the concept of a sports hatch.

you like the concept of the 5 Series GT too.

[Ferrer]

you like the concept of the 5 Series GT too.
I like odd cars. :)

[LeonOfTheDead]

I like odd cars. :)

what's odd about this?

[Ferrer]

what's odd about this?
It's not the usual sports saloon.

By the way, it really is A4 sized (4710/1850/1390mm). That leaves room for an hipotetic A7 Sportback.

[IBrake4Rainbows]

So will companies like Ford, Vauxhall/Opel etc start rebranding their mid size hatchbacks "sportbacks"?

sorry, but there is little new about this size/type of vehicle.

[Ferrer]

So will companies like Ford, Vauxhall/Opel etc start rebranding their mid size hatchbacks "sportbacks"?

sorry, but there is little new about this size/type of vehicle.
This reminds me more of the old Saabs, rather than modern D-segment hatches like the Mondeo or the Laguna, which anyway seem to be disappearing a bit.

[IBrake4Rainbows]

They're still there, and being sold quite well I can imagine.

This doesn't remind me of a Saab at all. it's nowhere near quirky enough, and I can't see you looking good driving one while in a black turtleneck.... :p

[LeonOfTheDead]

The Mondeo and the Laguna sell well only in estate version, sedan are disappearing.
Didn't see enough Insignia to say if it was the "hatch" or the standard sedan.

If this was an Opel or a whatever you may prefer, it would have been called "Audi A4 5 door" as opposed to the standard 4 door A4 we are used too.

Why Audi has to style all its cars to be identical?

[henk4]

And a big "thank you" goes to Renault, that gave us the R16 in the mid-sixties....

[IBrake4Rainbows]

Thats exactly my point, Henk.

They're just a 5 door hatch version of the sedan, why the big kerfuffle?

Leon, they style them the same because it's a very well trained family of designers who infuse the same sorts of design details in every car. Boring? probably, but certainly adds a level of sheen to the entire range, no?

[LeonOfTheDead]

Thats exactly my point, Henk.

They're just a 5 door hatch version of the sedan, why the big kerfuffle?

Leon, they style them the same because it's a very well trained family of designers who infuse the same sorts of design details in every car. Boring? probably, but certainly adds a level of sheen to the entire range, no?

Not really I think.
All BMWs are distinguishably recognazible as BMWs. So Alfas, or Citroens, Pugs, Porches, Ferraris, Jags, Lamboghinis... the list is infinite.
On the other hand an Audi A4 is very similar to this A5 Sportback, not really less round of an A6, which isn't much smaller than an A8. And all with the same face.
If I was to buy an A4 it could be cool, I have the small car, but it looks like the big one. If I had an A8, I would be pissed. Or maybe no, because since I bought it, I probably couldn't care less of the style. that said, why to buy an A8 in first place is beyond me.

[henk4]

next will be the A5 Sportback Allroad, and since the BMW GT has been launched, the A6 Sportback Quattro Allroad is next in line.

[IBrake4Rainbows]

Thats the thing - Audi's are proportional, taut and teutonic in their form languages. it's rigid because there isn't a whole lot of room to go anywhere within that language.

BMW in particular allows for much deviation on a theme, but can you say the results are better? and furthermore, there are rigid parts of BMW design (kidney grilles, dual headlamp clusters, etc.)

Every company does that sort of design - the top models filter down into the lower classes, thats why they're called "halo" models.

[LeonOfTheDead]

Thats the thing - Audi's are proportional, taut and teutonic in their form languages. it's rigid because there isn't a whole lot of room to go anywhere within that language.

BMW in particular allows for much deviation on a theme, but can you say the results are better? and furthermore, there are rigid parts of BMW design (kidney grilles, dual headlamp clusters, etc.)

Every company does that sort of design - the top models filter down into the lower classes, thats why they're called "halo" models.

I don't think that's the case with Audi, which is why I don't like it (one of the reasons...).
Reventòn's style is evident in Lamborghini's present line-up, but they don't all like it.
The C-Klasse always takes its design language from the S-Klasse, but it's proportionally different.
While a 3 Series got with the restyling some bits and bites from other more recent BMWs, it can't be remotely confused for a 7 Series, no matter from which gen, no matter from which point of view.
I wouldn't call the A8 an halo car either, it's just the bigger they have, I can't see a single appealing thing in it. It's not sporty (the present S8 has never been positively reviewed), it's not as high tech as the S or the 7, or the Lexus LS, it's not as elegant as an XJ or a Quattroporte, it's just an Audi.

And that's what I think about the whole Audi's line-up.
The only way I can honestly describe their cars is being their version of something already existing. Not meaning they didn't invent something and others did, just that their cars don't have a specific personality, something recognizable, something to declare their identity out of the badge.
And yes, I think the same of the R8, regardless of how well it performs, that's not my point.
They used to be the understated German luxury cars as opposed to the luxurious MBs and sporty BMWs, but lately they went more showy, and lost this aspect too.

Apart from personal taste, what distinguish an Audi from another car/brand?

[whiteballz]

Apart from personal taste, what distinguish an Audi from another car/brand?

A massive history of understeer? fanatics that froth at the mouth when you mention a wrong fact, engineers that love putting engines in the wrong place (infront of the axle) and that massive grille.

[LeonOfTheDead]

A massive history of understeer? fanatics that froth at the mouth when you mention a wrong fact, engineers that love putting engines in the wrong place (infront of the axle) and that massive grille.

A pack of Brownies for you Sir.

[IBrake4Rainbows]

I don't think that's the case with Audi, which is why I don't like it (one of the reasons...).

Reventòn's style is evident in Lamborghini's present line-up, but they don't all like it.

The surface language is what's key there. there is a lineage and pureness of form that follows each new Lamborghini design. and how can you say all Lambo's don't look the same, they're all the same shape FFS?!


The C-Klasse always takes its design language from the S-Klasse, but it's proportionally different.

Again a matter of surface language. each range of Mercedes cars has their own trademarks (4 headlights on the E Class, for instance), and I don't think the proportions are that different, the rise of the beltline, the flares over the wheel arches.....


While a 3 Series got with the restyling some bits and bites from other more recent BMWs, it can't be remotely confused for a 7 Series, no matter from which gen, no matter from which point of view.

The 7 is an interesting case. because it's always been bigger the proportions are never going to be mistaken with a smaller BMW, thats for sure. BMW's new design wave has created huge upheavel in the ability for differentiation. But much of that is to do with the large time differences between the releases - the 7 is released before the 3 in a model cycle.


I wouldn't call the A8 an halo car either, it's just the bigger they have, I can't see a single appealing thing in it. It's not sporty (the present S8 has never been positively reviewed), it's not as high tech as the S or the 7, or the Lexus LS, it's not as elegant as an XJ or a Quattroporte, it's just an Audi.

It's the height of good taste and subtlety. well, in a world of E65 7 series and Japanese S-Classes, it is.

It's also recognisable to the general public as a luxury vehcile, something you cannot say of the Lexus. the new XJ is not an elegant vehicle, and the old one basically looks old.

It's the German executive saloon to have when a BMW is too sporting and you're not old enough for a Mercedes Benz. Don't let a personal bias speak for how everyone thinks.


And that's what I think about the whole Audi's line-up.
The only way I can honestly describe their cars is being their version of something already existing. Not meaning they didn't invent something and others did, just that their cars don't have a specific personality, something recognizable, something to declare their identity out of the badge.

They're recognised for quality and consistency. you could say the same about the Japanese - they've never done anything original in their life, but simply study and copy what has gone before. which I think is a somewhat unfair generalisation.

Audi were pioneers in the field of 4WD adaptation in road cars, Aerodynamics (yeah, fight me on that, whatever) and in recent times the TT, A6 and A8 have all been unbelievable in their design, implementation and cool factor. the A8 in black is a cool vehicle, especially to the car unititiated.


And yes, I think the same of the R8, regardless of how well it performs, that's not my point.
They used to be the understated German luxury cars as opposed to the luxurious MBs and sporty BMWs, but lately they went more showy, and lost this aspect too.

They're showier, certainly. but only in proportion to their previous vehicles.

compared to their counterparts, they're positively restraint.


Apart from personal taste, what distinguish an Audi from another car/brand?

An Appreciation for the finer details of car design - shutlines, interior quality & fitment of plastics. ambience, what you touch, how it works.

It's analytical and studied, certainly, but the best things in life often are based upon seeing what your competitors do and coming up with something better.

you speak of refinement of these details as a bad thing - that suddenly because they might not be on the zeitgeist of modern design they're lacking relevance. I disagree. out of the three (BMW, Mercedes, Audi) BMW is losing touch with normality in terms of exterior design, and while efficient dynamics is a great leap forward in thinking, it only works if the cars are something you'd want to buy.

Mercedes have lost their understated elegance thing but they're still technical and an R&D based company.

While Audi, while not being groundbreaking, is perhaps refining the technology they have for the best purpose.

You ask others to take out their personal preference, but I think the question of Audi is somewhat biased on your own account. as you've stated.

[Ferrer]

A massive history of understeer? fanatics that froth at the mouth when you mention a wrong fact, engineers that love putting engines in the wrong place (infront of the axle) and that massive grille.
Don't forget the dead steering and stupid ride.

EDIT I think Audis are great for people who aren't interested in cars, they are great consumers goods in a way. But if you like to drive better look somewhere else.

[LeonOfTheDead]

IB4R, I'm surely biased about Audi, what I didn't write there, is that for how much I think Audi is under performing as a brand (in my book) compared to BMW and MB, I don't like them either. BMWs aren't working design wise, and their technical superiority seems to be diluted by marketing stunts trying to back good achievements but perhaps not as ground breaking as they could have been/used to be/they wanted to be.
MB is going in the wrong direction in the style compartment, as their cars still look massive and big, but lost the "grandpa" presence and don't inspire a sort of respect and reverence when you are in front of them.
Still, I don't think a C looks proportionally like a smaller S, and I don't think any of the 7 are distinguishable from a 3 just for the dimensions. Really different cars not only at a first distracted glance.
That's not the case of an X-Type and of an XJ, which to the average audience are just a copy, resize, and paste.

Besides, Audi are bought by old people over here, and Lexus is considered a luxury brand. About the XJ, I was considering the old one, which may lood old (to an enthusiast), but elegance nonetheless.
As an additional note, Audis are also generally purchase by people who don't know a damn thing about cars in general, let alone what Audi did in the past or even right now, how many times it won at Le Mans, or what are doing its competitors.
It's a choice for those who don't want to choice. Speaking out of experience of people I know.

I don't think Audi has a superiority in quality or attention to details either, not more than other brands really. Since the previous gen A6 their capability in penning aerodynamic cars has been obvious, but if that means such a slow and equalized evolution of the style, I guess something isn't working (again, in my book).

That's the same reason for blaming the 3rd gen Prius or even the new Insight. Both those vehicles are made to be overall as efficient as possible, still that's not the only shape to achieve a good aerodynamic.
I can see the Prius going for an evolution of the previous design, but not Honda.

Back to Audi, when I look at their interiors, they jusy look like the (good) base infrastructure on which other brand infuse their touches, stuff, gizmos and other things.
Surely this is recognizable as an Audi thing as much as the exterior design, but again I think it's a product for those who are looking for a "premium" car, but they are not, generally of course, even at the first level of being an enthusiast.
It's not a crime, but in this way Audi is becoming, still in my book, just a company, not a car company.

[Ferrer]

One thing has to be said in Audis defence, their interiors are superbly put together.

[henk4]

One thing has to be said in Audis defence, their interiors are superbly put together.
yes, delivered by a French supplier, owned by PSA:)

[IBrake4Rainbows]

IB4R, I'm surely biased about Audi, what I didn't write there, is that for how much I think Audi is under performing as a brand (in my book) compared to BMW and MB, I don't like them either. BMWs aren't working design wise, and their technical superiority seems to be diluted by marketing stunts trying to back good achievements but perhaps not as ground breaking as they could have been/used to be/they wanted to be.

Cars have never been more technically advanced, more efficient in their engines, more safe, more reliable.

What more do you want? seriously?


MB is going in the wrong direction in the style compartment, as their cars still look massive and big, but lost the "grandpa" presence and don't inspire a sort of respect and reverence when you are in front of them.
Still, I don't think a C looks proportionally like a smaller S, and I don't think any of the 7 are distinguishable from a 3 just for the dimensions. Really different cars not only at a first distracted glance.

Indeed the 7 is a different car in size but the basic set up - grille goes here, lights go here - means that from a distracted glance as you put it I could confuse BMW models.

the Mercedes of Current are taking a Ferrari approach - that is aerodynamics and efficiency first and the design will follow.


That's not the case of an X-Type and of an XJ, which to the average audience are just a copy, resize, and paste.


Jaguar were milking that style for about 40 years. and in variations, it worked.


Besides, Audi are bought by old people over here, and Lexus is considered a luxury brand. About the XJ, I was considering the old one, which may lood old (to an enthusiast), but elegance nonetheless.

The reverse is true here - Lexus' are bought by the elderly, while Audi's are bought mostly by young rich folk or the upper class. It's still the third preferred logo, certainly, but it's not without gravitas.

The old XJ was a mistake. put in a marketplace where the 7 Series was challenging design aesthetics and looking forward, where the A8 was restraint without looking retro, and the S-class was...well, not sucking, the XJ looked too old, too staid, and basically despite it being a VERY good car, was never really taken seriously.


As an additional note, Audis are also generally purchase by people who don't know a damn thing about cars in general, let alone what Audi did in the past or even right now, how many times it won at Le Mans, or what are doing its competitors.

You are right in terms of Audi's being bought by those who don't know cars. But how many BMW's, Mercedes et al are bought by those who don't care if it's handling bias is perfectly weighted towards RWD fun? it's cute & it has a BMW badge on it!

Audi's great quality in terms of marketing is they have an image of design and elegance.


It's a choice for those who don't want to choice. Speaking out of experience of people I know.

So it's a great compromise. What's wrong with that? not everyone is an enthusiast.


I don't think Audi has a superiority in quality or attention to details either, not more than other brands really. Since the previous gen A6 their capability in penning aerodynamic cars has been obvious, but if that means such a slow and equalized evolution of the style, I guess something isn't working (again, in my book).

Refinement of a particular style is hardly a bad quality. it's not even a dead end (just ask Claus Luthe, who's work at BMW was essentially refining the same idea over & over).

People's needs and expectations don't change hugely overnight. People are comfortable and will buy familiarity.

Don't ever confuse slow with measured progress.


That's the same reason for blaming the 3rd gen Prius or even the new Insight. Both those vehicles are made to be overall as efficient as possible, still that's not the only shape to achieve a good aerodynamic.
I can see the Prius going for an evolution of the previous design, but not Honda.

There is also an element of trying to keep the successful elements of the previous cars going on with the Prius. It's very much of the same family but the details are different.

And the same can be said of Audi's. just because they share a family schnozz doesn't mean the surfacing can't change.


Back to Audi, when I look at their interiors, they jusy look like the (good) base infrastructure on which other brand infuse their touches, stuff, gizmos and other things.
Surely this is recognizable as an Audi thing as much as the exterior design, but again I think it's a product for those who are looking for a "premium" car, but they are not, generally of course, even at the first level of being an enthusiast.

As a designer I can tell you those who appreciate good design appreciate the process from which a design comes to fruition.

You are right in thinking Audi's are somewhat of a non-enthusiasts choice. Having said that, if there appeal transcends car enthusiasts and can reach the general public, they must be doing something right.


It's not a crime, but in this way Audi is becoming, still in my book, just a company, not a car company.

And what's a car company then?

Something with engineering passion, like BMW? oh wait, they're just in it for the money.

Something with class, elegance, sophistication, like Mercedes Benz? oh wait, don't they do the Vito van, and aren't they just in it for the money?

I don't mean to burst your bubble but I think you're romantic notion of the car company is really a little bit off. these are businesses and as such they operate under the ideal that profit and sales uber alles. Market share, brand recognition and association (qualities you've bought into when you think a company like Alfa Romeo is somehow more than a car company and in fact is a way of life) are all more important than the "enthusiast", which is just a nice way of saying that the byproduct of all this profit is the occasional car that drives nicely or looks good.

Audi's fault is there obvious in their desire to make money? please. BMW, Porsche, Mercedes Benz, all brands with much more romantic notions of performance, speed, elegance - and all horrific whores for money.

[LeonOfTheDead]

Cars have never been more technically advanced, more efficient in their engines, more safe, more reliable.

What more do you want? seriously?

Passion, excitement, something less cold, is it too much?


Indeed the 7 is a different car in size but the basic set up - grille goes here, lights go here - means that from a distracted glance as you put it I could confuse BMW models.

I don't agree really My mother wouldn't confuse them, maybe a 5 with a 7 because they are nearly as big, surely not with a 3. And she don't know what a 3, a 5 or a 7 Series is.


The old XJ was a mistake. put in a marketplace where the 7 Series was challenging design aesthetics and looking forward, where the A8 was restraint without looking retro, and the S-class was...well, not sucking, the XJ looked too old, too staid, and basically despite it being a VERY good car, was never really taken seriously.

I'd say people didn't even know it was available or a new car in first place



You are right in terms of Audi's being bought by those who don't know cars. But how many BMW's, Mercedes et al are bought by those who don't care if it's handling bias is perfectly weighted towards RWD fun? it's cute & it has a BMW badge on it!

Audi's great quality in terms of marketing is they have an image of design and elegance.

MB and BMW aren't enthusiasts as a given fact, neither are Alfa's or Ferrari's, but they rely on a general, diffused and consolidated idea of the brand.
Now iirc Audi hadn't a great image of design and elegance up to 15 years ago, the A3 was a new car for the segment, but got accepted on a snap by customers just thanks to a good marketing I think, the same way the 1 Series worked, while the 3 Compact has never been a success. And that's before the cars can actually demonstrate what they really are.
Having a good marketing office isn't the same of having a good product.


So it's a great compromise. What's wrong with that? not everyone is an enthusiast.

but we are, and I'm saying from our (mine) point of view it isn't working.


People's needs and expectations don't change hugely overnight. People are comfortable and will buy familiarity.

Don't ever confuse slow with measured progress.

And I'm saying this measured progress is just too little, and too low.
I liked the former A6, I liked the first A4, somehow even the TT, then they just became boring, and new products always failed to raise a bit of smile in me.


And the same can be said of Audi's. just because they share a family schnozz doesn't mean the surfacing can't change.

that's the deal, that's "changing" for you, because you are a designer, so you see and understand shapes more than others. I recognize their cars aren't the "same" but trying to think with my mother/father eyes, of an average person and a non enthusiast, they are just the same thing since years.


As a designer I can tell you those who appreciate good design appreciate the process from which a design comes to fruition.

as you said, we aren't all enthusiasts, let alone designers :).


And what's a car company then?

Something with engineering passion, like BMW? oh wait, they're just in it for the money.

Something with class, elegance, sophistication, like Mercedes Benz? oh wait, don't they do the Vito van, and aren't they just in it for the money?

I don't mean to burst your bubble but I think you're romantic notion of the car company is really a little bit off. these are businesses and as such they operate under the ideal that profit and sales uber alles. Market share, brand recognition and association (qualities you've bought into when you think a company like Alfa Romeo is somehow more than a car company and in fact is a way of life) are all more important than the "enthusiast", which is just a nice way of saying that the byproduct of all this profit is the occasional car that drives nicely or looks good.

Audi's fault is there obvious in their desire to make money? please. BMW, Porsche, Mercedes Benz, all brands with much more romantic notions of performance, speed, elegance - and all horrific whores for money.

If the point for you behind each company is only money, what's the point of being an enthusiast then?
Besides, I'm sure that as a compnay they do care about money and a lot, but I didn't say that's the only thing Audi bother about.
What I'm trying to say is that they are offering just a safe product, a "measured" evolved design (which is the first thing to appeal the customer, more then their super-uber-last-technology which he won't understand, ever) without "risking", without adding a personal touch (that, or their touch is being plain boring, still in my opinion) or an element of passion towards what they are creating.
I don't feel like they are in love with what they do. As a company Audi could not care about what it is selling, being candies or cars, but probably the people that worked on each car do care about them.

Consider Walter de Silva, their head of design. He penned some good looking car in various years.
Both for the Fiat Group and for VAG. Then he comes out saying the A5 Coupe is the best car he ever designed. Which is fine, even if I don't agree, even if I like the A5 the most among other present Audis.
It's a huge evolution, in my opinion, on the A4 sedan, which just seems squashed and a mix between the two previous gen A4s. the A5 is muscular while still being clearly and Audi product, so something pretty simple at first sight, with plain surfaces.
Then why do you have to force a sedan look in it just because that design worked?
You got a slightly different Audi which looks good, and I can't stand why now it will be the design basis for all the next cars which I'm afraid they are not going to be significantly different over it 8still thinking, or trying to think with J. Average eye).
There was the previous gen A6. Then came the new A4, which was just a bit smaller A6, with a proper sedan look rather than a 5 door. The A8 lost his dynamism becoming a squared A4 and alrger A8, with the new A6 being the perfect fix between the two, being designed just to be the second frame of a gif.
The new A4 I already express what I think about it, and the A4 Avant is basically just an A6 Avant. Not for me and you, but for the average Joe, yes.

I don't like this, but what really bother me is that they manage to sell their cars to people pretending to understand and know about cars, not just dudes saying "I want a good and well refined car", while we just stated (I think we agree on this, right?) it is an enthusiasts' brand.
So what I'm aiming at is that it's a sort of fake brand, as far as its image is concerned.
People buy them, but they actually don't know why. Some of them don't know if the car is fwd or rwd, some don't know the engine is the same of a Golf (nothing wrong about that right now), other just decided to bought an A6 without even being able to recognize it at the dealer (I swear).
it's the same for people saying they bought the first gen modern Mini when the second was just released because " I prefer this one" when I myself was struggling to find the differences at first. Come on, you just wanted the Mini because it's cool, you can say that. Don't pretend to be an expert.

So if this was what they were looking for, good for them, they managed to conquer a market, a very healthy one.
Still that's properly the reason why I don't like them.


EDIT: I think this discussion is going a bit too far. I see you points IB4R, and probably they are exactly my problem with Audi. Don't want to flame a war on this tough. :)

[Ferrer]

Maybe that's not the thread for the discussion, but please don't stop, it's a very interesting discussion to me.

My take on the subject is not that Audis look all the same or not. In that aspect I think I pretty much agree with what IB4R says. That's not the problem. In fact bar the massive grille, they are quite good looking cars with top of the class interior.

What really drives me up the wall is when someone mentions an Audi (R8 excepted) as a drivers car. Quite apart from the fact that they are overpriced VWs, Audis drive awfully to anyone who has a modicum of understanding of how a car works.

Audis really are a triumph of style over substance. They appear to be sporty, and that's what matters to most of their costumers. It doesn't matter that the steering is dead, that it has miles of understeer, nose heaviness or the simply unacceptable ride.

[IBrake4Rainbows]

Passion, excitement, something less cold, is it too much?

God is in the details. (Mies van der Rohe)




I don't agree really My mother wouldn't confuse them, maybe a 5 with a 7 because they are nearly as big, surely not with a 3. And she don't know what a 3, a 5 or a 7 Series is.

then how could she not confuse them?

she knows them as the little bmw, the mid bmw and the big bmw.



I'd say people didn't even know it was available or a new car in first place


Which I daresay was kind of the intention.



MB and BMW aren't enthusiasts as a given fact, neither are Alfa's or Ferrari's, but they rely on a general, diffused and consolidated idea of the brand.

Something you buy into when you mention the beautiful world of "Passion".



Now iirc Audi hadn't a great image of design and elegance up to 15 years ago.....

The 1 series worked because of timing. Yuppies were downsizing, BMW releases a premium hatch...PROFIT!

The Engineering and Driving passion of the car has little to do with it's success.


Having a good marketing office isn't the same of having a good product.


But it's a damn good substitute. Just ask Citroen.



but we are, and I'm saying from our (mine) point of view it isn't working.

Thats because you're coming from an extreme point of view - the view of the enthusiast in which every action must involve passion and vision.

Again you're doubting passion because of efficiency and that inheirant belief that because a car is liked by the general public is must be shockingly average.



And I'm saying this measured progress is just too little, and too low.
....

The old A6 was masterly in design, as was the TT. The follow ups were always going to be difficult. I happen to think they haven't done a bad job.

the First A4....well I'm glad they kept at it.



that's the deal, that's "changing" for you, because you are a designer, so you see and understand shapes more than others.....


But they're not, thats what I'm saying. the subtle nuances and shifts in surface language, detailing and design indicate a quantum shift in thinking, thats matched in such a way as to maintain a lineage and not devalue the brand.

I'll use the age old adage of Apple computers. the iPod is the same each iteration, but there are little differences that make it that much more modern, more interesting. a shift in material, a rounded or sharpened edge.

and people buy it.



as you said, we aren't all enthusiasts, let alone designers :).

you don't have to be a designer to appreciate good design. It helps though :D


If the point for you behind each company is only money, what's the point of being an enthusiast then?

the concept of the enthusiast is that of the fanboy - blind love. and it's outdated.


Besides, I'm sure that as a compnay they do care about money and a lot, but I didn't say that's the only thing Audi bother about.

The implication was that Audi is somehow less of a company because they're focus is on something other than engineering or technical excellence.

which, I might add, it isn't.


What I'm trying to say is that they are offering just a safe product, a "measured" evolved design (which is .......

There is little wrong with giving the customer what they want. Just ask BMW (lets make a fat SUV?!)

Passion comes in many forms. some have a passion for flair and outlandish action. others find the passion in the smallest flick of a pen. thats where Audi find their design passion at least - in the details.


I don't feel like they are in love with what they do. As a company Audi could not care about what it is selling, being candies or cars, but probably the people that worked on each car do care about them.

This is fundamentally where I think you've drawn a distinction between Audi and other companies who are essentially EXACTLY THE SAME as Audi. You consider companies like Alfa Romeo and Lancia to be Passionate, to care about what they sell...Really? moreso than Audi?

Really?

I'm sorry but I find your distinction to be false.


Consider Walter de Silva, their head of design. He penned some good looking car in various years.
Both for the Fiat Group and for VAG. Then he comes out saying the A5 Coupe is the best car he ever designed. Which is fine, even if I don't agree, even if I like the A5 the most among other present Audis.

De Silva's work within Audi is a masterstroke of rocking the boat without rocking the boat. He doesn't rely on big gestures like Bangle or Arcadipane to get his point of evolution across. his team have studied the characteristics of the legacy Schreyer left Audi and continued the important points, while at the same time modernising and keeping with a desire for more complex surfaces and shapes.

I think your problem is you can't recognise subtlety.


It's a huge evolution, in my opinion, on the A4 sedan, which just seems squashed and a mix between the two previous gen A4s. the A5 is muscular while still being clearly and Audi product, so something pretty simple at first sight, with plain surfaces.

And this is the problem I have with your argument. you've confused simple with simplistic.

Refer to my points about history and the future RE De Silva's work.


Then why do you have to force a sedan look in it just because that design worked?
You got a slightly different Audi which looks good, and I can't stand why now it will be the design basis for all the next cars which I'm afraid they are not going to be significantly different over it 8still thinking, or trying to think with J. Average eye).

As much as people enjoy brave design choices (and they do change the world), what they all end up buying is the same sort of car.

the best analogy I can come up with is that Audi design is a black pair of jeans. Impeccibly tailored, with great fabric, well detailed pockets and buttons. Yes, it's a black pair of jeans, but, as mies says, God is in the details.


There was the previous gen A6. Then came the new A4, which was just a bit smaller A6, with a proper sedan look rather than a 5 door. The A8 lost his dynamism becoming a squared A4 and alrger A8, with the new A6 being the perfect fix between the two, being designed just to be the second frame of a gif.

Each has their own character though. the A4 is more teutonic and playful in surface treatment, the A6 more rounded and friendly, while the A8 has developed much like a Party - it started with a stiff collar and done up tie, now it's relaxed the tie and is starting to let go.


The new A4 I already express what I think about it, and the A4 Avant is basically just an A6 Avant. Not for me and you, but for the average Joe, yes.

Well, no. Because Average joe looks at price and Badge - like checking the label to see the difference between a lower & higher brand.


I don't like this, but what really bother me is that they manage to sell their cars to people pretending to understand and know about cars, not just dudes saying "I want a good and well refined car", while we just stated (I think we agree on this, right?) it is an enthusiasts' brand.

Ahhh, so you think they're poseurs?

any more so than those who buy the right brand so they look like an enthusiast?


So what I'm aiming at is that it's a sort of fake brand, as far as its image is concerned.

The only fake brand is one that tries to advertise itself differently to how people react to it.

The untrained reaction to Audi is "quality".


People buy them, but they actually don't know why. Some of them don't know if the car is fwd or rwd, some don't know the engine is the same of a Golf (nothing wrong about that right now), other just decided to bought an A6 without even being able to recognize it at the dealer (I swear).

How is that any different to any other car company, save for the high end bespoke people like Bentley?

You're confusing hatred with stupid people for hatred of a Brand. mostly because, in your mind, you've associated the two.


it's the same for people saying they bought the first gen modern Mini when the second was just released because " I prefer this one" when I myself was struggling to find the differences at first. Come on, you just wanted the Mini because it's cool, you can say that. Don't pretend to be an expert.

I prefer the first generation mini for multiple design reasons (the second one is overstyled to within an inch of it's life, for instance, and the headlights aren't an improvement).

Again I think we've established your problem is not with Audi, it's with Poseurs. and thats a problem with most brands :p


So if this was what they were looking for, good for them, they managed to conquer a market, a very healthy one.
Still that's properly the reason why I don't like them.

Again, Audi's aim was to create profit for it's shareholders.

It did so by marketing they're cars as premium products.

If a certain segment of that community buys there cars, you think Audi are going to turn them away because they're money isn't as good as someone elses?


EDIT: I think this discussion is going a bit too far. I see you points IB4R, and probably they are exactly my problem with Audi. Don't want to flame a war on this tough. :)

To be honest it's a bit symptomatic of a very negative attitude that has permeated UCP.

I don't want a flame war either, so I shall leave it here :)

[LeonOfTheDead]

this is becoming a nitpicking-semantic discussion.
sorry but I can't even read your answer now :)
The war is over, keep your land, I'll keep mine. :p

[IBrake4Rainbows]

I won I won :D

[jaromull]

I won I won :D

:cool:
Oh.... Really ????

[Ferrer]

The new A5. Which loooks pretty much exactly the same as the old one. Or any other Audi for that matter #10

[Ferrer]

The new A5. Which loooks pretty much exactly the same as the old one. Or any other Audi for that matter #11

[Ferrer]

The new A5. Which loooks pretty much exactly the same as the old one. Or any other Audi for that matter #12

[Ferrer]

The new A5. Which loooks pretty much exactly the same as the old one. Or any other Audi for that matter #13

[Ferrer]

The new A5. Which loooks pretty much exactly the same as the old one. Or any other Audi for that matter #14

[Ferrer]

The new A5. Which loooks pretty much exactly the same as the old one. Or any other Audi for that matter #15

[Ferrer]

Hoping it will provoke another massive argument, here is the new A5 Sportback #5

[Ferrer]

Hoping it will provoke another massive argument, here is the new A5 Sportback #6

[Ferrer]

Hoping it will provoke another massive argument, here is the new A5 Sportback #7

[RacingManiac]

So hows that different from the A7? Is this based on the A4?

[Ferrer]

So hows that different from the A7? Is this based on the A4?
Yes. It's different because it is smaller.

[thebrochureman]

^^^ You can't fault Audi's interior quality, smart looking car.

[ScionDriver]

Why a Cabrio though? What's the difference between a convertible A4 and a convertible A5? Doesn't seem worth it really.

[Dino Scuderia]

Don't like the new even more gimmicky headlights.

[Ferrer]

Why a Cabrio though? What's the difference between a convertible A4 and a convertible A5? Doesn't seem worth it really.
The A5 Cabriolet took over where the A4 Cabriolet left.

[ScionDriver]

Also why did they make the A5 into a sedan and all this. It's kind of stupid. I thought the point of the A5 was that it's kind of a stand alone sporty coupe model, now they're making a cabrio, sedan and stuff.

[pimento]

Marketeering, economies of scale, focus groups and continued success. I imagine when you walk into an Audi dealership they just give you a questionnaire to fill out, feed it through a computer out the back then just tell you which model fits your bill.

[Kitdy]

Marketeering, economies of scale, focus groups and continued success. I imagine when you walk into an Audi dealership they just give you a questionnaire to fill out, feed it through a computer out the back then just tell you which model fits your bill.

Ditto Benz and Bimmer.

[pimento]

Ditto Benz and Bimmer.

Audi seems worse to me for some reason. I think it's because they all look the same, so you can't just choose on looks. You either want something that looks like an Audi or something else, but then once you've made that decision you still have to make the model decision on some grounds. Even walking asking for some $$s worth of Audi wouldn't work so well, what with the overlaps between models.

[Ferrer]

Audi seems worse to me for some reason. I think it's because they all look the same, so you can't just choose on looks. You either want something that looks like an Audi or something else, but then once you've made that decision you still have to make the model decision on some grounds. Even walking asking for some $$s worth of Audi wouldn't work so well, what with the overlaps between models.
Precisely, if they all look, go and feel pretty much the same there's no point in having a questionnaire.

You just enter the Audi showroom, pay, then drive off in whatever was in stock at the moment. The end.

Probably.

[pimento]

The questionnaire just legitimises the credit check process - it's really just linked to a random number generator and the stock list.

'You, your wife and your 4 kids should drive away in this wonderful new A1!'

[IBrake4Rainbows]

German Design trends of the next 5 years: Headlights that sweep up at the grille.

Reaction? cross eyed koala.

[Commodore GS/E]

The A5 Sportback was pretty cool. Before the A7 came along. Now it's just an "I couldn't afford an A7"-mobile.
Speaking about the design... I think Audi could have done better on this. The front fascia doesn't work that well in connection to the rest of the car. The old design was, well, old, but looked a lot more composed. The facelift would have needed a new overall design to have the right effect. Now it just looks a bit... odd.

[Ferrer]

The A5 Sportback was pretty cool. Before the A7 came along. Now it's just an "I couldn't afford an A7"-mobile.
Speaking about the design... I think Audi could have done better on this. The front fascia doesn't work that well in connection to the rest of the car. The old design was, well, old, but looked a lot more composed. The facelift would have needed a new overall design to have the right effect. Now it just looks a bit... odd.
The only problem with the A7 (apart from being an Audi) is that the back end, especially the boot lid) looks too low. From some angle it seems like the suspension has collapsed. The A5 Sportback does not suffer from this and as a result looks infinitely better. And now that you'll be able to have with the supercharged V6 in non-S form, the A7's main selling point is gone.

[Kitdy]

So there is an A5 sedan (or whatever you want to call it - liftback etc), and an A5 coupe, and an A4 sedan.

That's it; I give up.

[Clivey]

The questionnaire just legitimises the credit check process - it's really just linked to a random number generator and the stock list.

'You, your wife and your 4 kids should drive away in this wonderful new A1!'

Lol!

Car dealers hate it when I visit their showrooms because I already know what I like & want. - They hate it because they can't sell me anything else.