Just test drove...

[IWantAnAudiRS6]

... the new Toyota Auris. It's really, really good. I went to the showroom and played with the test car first- weird handbrake, funky dash, comfy seats, excellent gearbox.

Then I asked for a test drive, expecting to be shown the door. The very cute sales girl asked me a few questions, and then we were away in the 2-litre diesel- TR model.

Bare stats.
- 126bhp
- 300NM of torque (anyone got the bare lb/ft figure?)
- 0-60 takes 10.2 secs
- Top speed about 126mph
- Standard A/C
- All electric windows
- CD player
- 6-speed gearbox
- A million cubbyholes

Acceleration and tractability.

Well, as we know, bare acceleration stats do not do diesels justice- that's where the huge mountain of torque comes in. With 300NM, overtaking really is effortless- even in 6th. You just plant your foot to the floor, and *boom*- it shifts.

The only thing that frustrated me was the lack of revs to go through- I'm used to a petrol that happily zooms to 6,000rpm, and above 4,000 is where it gives it all. But on a diesel, it's best to stick between 2,000 and 3,000rpm for maximum effect- and economy, as it happens. Overtaking at 55mph in 5th gear, I was getting 50.5mpg. Cruising at 65mph in 6th, I was getting over 100mpg.

The acceleration is lovely. The shove in the lower back is most excellent, but I just needed to remember to shift earlier than normal to get the most out of it. The midrange is really where it shines- change to 3rd and floor it, and suddenly you find yourself up the exhaust pipe of someone who really didn't expect it. Overtaking, as mentioned, was a breeze. A very good car for the real world.

Economy.

I didn't drive it for long, but the raw material and stats I already had compounded what I suspected- it's insane. I got it down to 6.8mpg on the average readout when I floored it in second, but apart from that I stuck at about 87mpg. Consider that, driving the same way in a 1.1 206 I get 36mpg, I was mightily impressed. Also, the range left was astounding- 400 miles from just over half the tank. Toyota claim 51.4 average consumption.

Handling and fun.

It's a family hatchback, and it's a Toyota. Fun is never going to be high on the list. However, I decided to chance it, and the girl said we'd go down some entertaining roads. So we did. All the roads I love driving when I want to drive for the sake of it were on the test route. The chassis is very capable, and handled some quite extreme cornering. Of course, shooting out of corners using the torque to hand never got boring! So +2 on the fun front so far. Handling... the steering is very light, but it does give you some feedback. In comparison to a really entertaining car- the Mini Cooper S- it's much lighter and definitely not as communicative. But compared to the Ford Focus, I'd say it's more than worthy. Sure-footed and entertaining at times, but not for the enthusiast.

Comfort and space.

As a new car, it's likely to have a lot of creature comforts. You're not wrong if you assumed that. Sitting in the car is comfortable, but it has no sporting pretensions at all. You can't get the seat low enough, and the shape of the front of the car makes it feel very un-sporty. But as a family car, it really does work. The flat floor in the rear now makes it easier for Jonathan to kick his little sister, Maddie, on a trip down to Cornwall, and he can also wreak havoc with the electric windows- until Dad turns them off. There are more cubbyholes than you can shake a stick at (3 in the passenger side of the dashboard alone), and the gearlever is perfectly positioned- like the last-gen Honda Civic and, to some extent, WRC and BTCC cars. The seats are wonderfully supportive and comfortable, but the headrests could do with softening up. CD player as standard- and hell, it can kick out some serious sound! The A/C works very well, going from ice-cold to bloody-hot at the twist of a knob, with a useful 'ambient' setting. Electric everything (great for when you crash into a river...), comfy everything (headrests aside), and a decent amount of space in the rear.

Styling and aesthetics.

It's like a fat Yaris, everyone says. They're not wrong. It's a good-looking car, but the rear is slightly frumpy. And unless you get it in black T180 spec, you can't look like you have any sporting ability. As a family car, however, it really works. It's attractive, and well thought-out. Alloys as standard from T3-upwards, too. Don't get it in Ixion Blue. The interior is a very nice place to be, with a slightly futuristic look, and dials in front of you- which makes a nice change from the 'let's put the dials in the middle!' attitude that has been quite popular of late...

Overall...

I really liked this car. The styling appealed to me (in black, and with hot wheels), and the interior was appealing too. The drive really impressed me- it's extremely refined and bloody quick when you want it to be. It's a brilliant family car, and can be a good sporting car if you ask it nicely. It's secure, easy to drive, and overall a very sound new car- definitely ahead of the Focus.

[Waugh-terfall]

I've seen a number of grey Auris Diesels around town with the local Toyota dealers crap all over them, they look pretty good and from what I've seen on the adverts the interiors seem pretty good. Toyota's feel fairly well put together even if the materials feel a little cheap from a recent experience in a friends Mum's 05 Verso Diesel. Auris's are kinda VW Golf sized right? I might try get my parents to consider looking at them, provided I'd be able to fit in the back, and so far, the Golf & Polo have been the only ones enabling me to do so. Fingers crossed for the Auris!

Haven't seen the handbrake, is it similar to that cool one on the Renault Megane and Ford S-Max?

[Ferrer]

Glad you liked it, but the problem is see with it is the boringness of it. Being a family car out and out performance and handling aren't the priority, and other attibutes like space and style become more important.

[IWantAnAudiRS6]

It's not that bad behind the wheel, Albert- like I said, it has it's moments!

However, I'm gunna go test-drive the new Civic CDTi too, see how that compares.

And Tom- not the same as the Megane, it's just weird-looking! Works the same, looks funny. Check out Toyota's website.

[baddabang]

So you got her number?

[Ferrer]

It's not that bad behind the wheel, Albert- like I said, it has it's moments!
Actually I wasn't critising it for being a bad handler, quite the contrary. What I said is that in a family hatchback performance and handling aren't that important, whereas style and space (amongst others) are. That's why I'd rather buy a Citroen C4 even if it is slower and handles worse than the Toyota.

[IWantAnAudiRS6]

So you got her number?
Yes.

Actually I wasn't critising it for being a bad handler, quite the contrary. What I said is that in a family hatchback performance and handling aren't that important, whereas style and space (amongst others) are. That's why I'd rather buy a Citroen C4 even if it is slower and handles worse than the Toyota.
Yeah, I see where you're coming from. It's 'nice' styling, but not 'striking'. I prefer the C4 and Civic in that respect, and it's also why I'd have an Astra over a Focus. Unless it's an ST in orange. :cool:

Try one, though. I think you'd like it!

[Rockefella]

So you got her number?


Yes.

That's a lie.

[IWantAnAudiRS6]

That's a lie.

*sigh* She just called me. So nerr!

[Rockefella]

*sigh* She just called me. So nerr!

I call shenanigans.

[jediali]

The auris is getting some good reviews. i dont think its breaking out of the character the previous corolla set though...however i havent driven one...i'll leave the judging to iwars6..cough..i mean jeremy clakson! So what next, down to the bmw showroom?

hmmm...100mpg...dont like those trend computers. They do some funny time derivitive standard deviation stuff to produce nonsense figures.

something not mentioned. your version had a torsion beam (non-independant) rear suspension unlike the warm hatch version which will have multi-link, so not really up there with the Focus and Golf yet in terms of ride quality/handling combination.....so ive heard :)

nice report, Would you ever (in the right circumstance) buy one over the competitorrs though?

[IWantAnAudiRS6]

Rocke- no, she really did!

And jed- yeah, it's quite similar, but the engines, refinement and overall comfort (as well as dimensions!) have increased in their respective categories- refinement, power, comfort rating, millimetres, etc.

It handled very well from where I was sitting- try one for yourself! No stealing Maria, though- mines :p

I probably would have this quite high in the list if I wanted to do big motorway miles, but if it was a question of fun and I still wanted diesel, I'd take either a SEAT Ibiza Cupra TDi or a Vauxhall Astra SRi diesel.

[Suka]

Hey Sam. Just thought i would post for once.
I really like the looks of this Toyota, once you've bought it you can drive up and see me. then give me a lift back to this "Best pub in Britain" that you told me about! Do you still work there?
Anyway, back on topic. I really liked the look of the interior from what i have seen on adverts and pictures on the net. Good place to be huh? I spose thats good.

[jediali]

Vauxhall Astra SRi diesel.
what about the 888? more torque steer than a alfa 147 and an vectra vxr put together.

[Ferrer]

what about the 888? more torque steer than a alfa 147 and an vectra vxr put together.
That's why it wouldn't be much fun...

[IWantAnAudiRS6]

Tom- good to hear from you, continue the discussion offline ;)

It is a lovely place to be. Not exactly Mercedes/Audi standard, but good.

And jed- the 888 sounds very appealing to me... I love the sound of that car!

[Waugh-terfall]

Ah yes, I see, it's almost mk2 Honda CRV, I almost had a little accident with one of those at Goodwood... Me in a rolling CRV vs old lady in an invalid buggy... That was SERIOUSLY scary.:o

[IWantAnAudiRS6]

No, it's really not!!

Having driven both... I can testify and say that they're as far removed from each other as Rocke is with speaking English without an accent.

[Rockefella]

No, it's really not!!

Having driven both... I can testify and say that they're as far removed from each other as Rocke is with speaking English without an accent.

I don't have an accent.

[IWantAnAudiRS6]

I don't have an accent.

... I think you'll find you do.

Name your country.

I bet it's not England.

[Kitdy]

Engilsh is a germanic language. We all speak it with accents :)

Besides, we all know that the only true accent is Torontonian - very neutral city like + Canadian countryside + little mix of every ethnicity - bam! A perfect comprimise between English English and American English, eh?

[IWantAnAudiRS6]

Cunning.

I will use your statement for future comparisons.

[Cyco]

I wont believe in a Maria until you Egg-Nogg her :p

[IWantAnAudiRS6]

*sighs*

OK.

I'm dragging the parents down sometime. She might find it odd, but I'll get a photo if need be...

[Quiggs]

I call shenanigans.The next person who says shenanigans is getting pistol whipped.


*sighs*

OK.

I'm dragging the parents down sometime. She might find it odd, but I'll get a photo if need be...Picsorban.


Lol @ 10.2 seconds to 60... And you people make fun of der Uberwagen...

[Kitdy]

*sighs*

OK.

I'm dragging the parents down sometime. She might find it odd, but I'll get a photo if need be...

I want to see how that conversation would go.

"Can I take your picture to show..."

Be tact!

[IWantAnAudiRS6]

The next person who says shenanigans is getting pistol whipped.

Picsorban.


Lol @ 10.2 seconds to 60... And you people make fun of der Uberwagen...
What was that about shenanigans?

And Quiggs- if you actually read the review, the first sentence of the 'Acceleration and tractability' section would reveal a lot!

I want to see how that conversation would go.

"Can I take your picture to show..."

Be tact!
Nah, I'd be subtle :) it's my thing. Plus, if I get her on a date... ;)

[Quiggs]

The only way you can get a picture of her without becoming the really creepy guy, is to buy the car, and have a picture taken of you, her, and said new car together as you cut the ribbon on it.

And I did read it. Illusion of speed > speed.

[Kitdy]

The only way you can get a picture of her without becoming the really creepy guy, is to buy the car, and have a picture taken of you, her, and said new car together as you cut the ribbon on it.

And I did read it. Illusion of speed > speed.

Yeah I was thinking if he got her on a date. How old is she exactly? And what did she say on the phone? ;)

[IWantAnAudiRS6]

The only way you can get a picture of her without becoming the really creepy guy, is to buy the car, and have a picture taken of you, her, and said new car together as you cut the ribbon on it.

And I did read it. Illusion of speed > speed.

I trust me... I have ways with people... I'm a waiter. And also PR for the BoJ.

Trust me, the in-gear acceleration- which is what matters to me, as I don't launch the car very often- is startling.

Next up- the 160bhp 1.9TDi, see how that fares :D

Kitdy- over 21. The last girl I picked up was 13. THAT was awkward. And enough :D

[Quiggs]

Next up- the 160bhp 1.9TDi, see how that fares :DForget diesels. You want a 1.8T. You'd nevAr lose.


What was that about shenanigans?
http://filebox.vt.edu/c/chcleme1/super%20troopers.jpg

[IWantAnAudiRS6]

I don't want a sodding 1.8T! Although... just saw an A4 crop up on the 'Bay- 4 days left, no reserve, and it's at £101. WinnAr! O_o

I'll bid if it stays below £2,000. Which it won't.

[Ferrer]

I don't want a sodding 1.8T! Although... just saw an A4 crop up on the 'Bay- 4 days left, no reserve, and it's at £101. WinnAr! O_o

I'll bid if it stays below £2,000. Which it won't.
I'm with Quiggs, forget diesels.

[Kitdy]

Kitdy- over 21. The last girl I picked up was 13. THAT was awkward. And enough :D

13?!! AH!

How is she so young and working at a dealership? Is it daddies?

EDIT: I mean the older one, n ot the 13 year old. I am not that stupid!

[IWantAnAudiRS6]

Lol, the 21+ year-old? She was a hairdresser, then became a dental nurse, then moved to customer relations for Peugeot (I really need to sell that 206), then Vauxhall, then Toyota. Simple :)

The 13-year-old I met at my pub... looked much older, passed over my number. She is also a fruitcake. Frickin' yay.

Al- I can't afford to run a petrol at the moment! If I get 36mpg from the mighty stallion 206, think what a turbocharged, 700cc-bigger petrol lump will do to my wallet!

[baddabang]

Al- I can't afford to run a petrol at the moment! If I get 36mpg from the mighty stallion 206, think what a turbocharged, 700cc-bigger petrol lump will do to my wallet!

How big is the engine in the 206? It can't possible cost too much money to run.

[IWantAnAudiRS6]

Dude, it's a 1.1 and it drinks petrol like there's no tomorrow. And it does this whilst being comically slow. I think I got burnt off by an ice cream van the other day.

Bear in mind I was getting over 50mpg (that's imperial, so 60 US gallons) whilst overtaking some chap in this Toyota... I struggle to get over 40 (48 US gallons) with the Peugeot.

[Kitdy]

Hell I'm across the ocean and I know Peugeots = Poop.

[Ferrer]

Sam, there must be something wrong with your 206. It's not normal you get 7,8l/100km...

[IWantAnAudiRS6]

Gah, I've done everything I've been told to. Checked the oil, checked the filter, checked the air filter, checked my coolant levels. My exhaust is fine. I don't know what else to do, apart from a service, which is due in another 12,000 miles!

[Kitdy]

Sam, there must be something wrong with your 206. It's not normal you get 7,8l/100km...

He forgot about the 200 kilos of bricks he put in the back... Or the person he hacked up... ;)

[IWantAnAudiRS6]

You leave my mother out of this.

[Kitdy]

You said it not me, you'll be done in for murder charges.

[IWantAnAudiRS6]

Don't turn your back on yours, and have a nice day... ;)

[baddabang]

Dude, it's a 1.1 and it drinks petrol like there's no tomorrow. And it does this whilst being comically slow. I think I got burnt off by an ice cream van the other day.

Bear in mind I was getting over 50mpg (that's imperial, so 60 US gallons) whilst overtaking some chap in this Toyota... I struggle to get over 40 (48 US gallons) with the Peugeot.

I get 16mpg tops. I use more gas at idle then you do all week. Not that its anything to be proud of.

Then again it is more expensive there for fuel.

[Kitdy]

OK, I think we are all missing the point. What are the odds that IWantAnAudiRS6 gets on a date with this girl?

1/3, any takers?

[Rockefella]

OK, I think we are all missing the point. What are the odds that IWantAnAudiRS6 gets on a date with this girl?

1/3, any takers?

Odds? 0.

He never got her number.

[Quiggs]

I just thought about it, and aside from a few actresses/models, I've never seen an English girl with straight teeth. I bet his saleswoman's smile is as crooked as... something that's really crooked.

[Kitdy]

I just thought about it, and aside from a few actresses/models, I've never seen an English girl with straight teeth. I bet his saleswoman's smile is as crooked as... something that's really crooked.

My wang?

[IWantAnAudiRS6]

Quiggs, I would recommend you pop to our college and observe the total hotness sometime... but you can't :D and she seemed more than acceptable in every department- teeth included.

[Ingolstadt]

1.8T's fuel consumption (ok, i had a leaking exhaust manifold)

Full tank serves me around 400KM. But if i had a roughly accumulated traffic jam of 1 hour that week, it'll only do 350-380KM. Thats around 13L / 100KM

It sucks.

[jcp123]

Boy do I wish they'd ship some diesels over here. It might even get me to respect late-model cars again!

[IWantAnAudiRS6]

Yeah, for guys who love torque, you're sure missing out!

The VW 1.9TDi PD, when chipped (not tuned mechanically, just electronically) can pump out 185bhp and 288lb/ft of torque- and don't forget you can get this engine in a baby Skoda and Seat! :eek:

[Ferrer]

Yeah, for guys who love torque, you're sure missing out!

The VW 1.9TDi PD, when chipped (not tuned mechanically, just electronically) can pump out 185bhp and 288lb/ft of torque- and don't forget you can get this engine in a baby Skoda and Seat! :eek:
It still sounds like a tractor though.

[IWantAnAudiRS6]

It still sounds like a tractor though.

That's why stereos were invented... ;)

[jediali]

Yeah, for guys who love torque, you're sure missing out!

The VW 1.9TDi PD, when chipped (not tuned mechanically, just electronically) can pump out 185bhp and 288lb/ft of torque- and don't forget you can get this engine in a baby Skoda and Seat! :eek:

i would stick to common rail

[IWantAnAudiRS6]

i would stick to common rail

I like the 1.9TDi... it's punchy, and mighty quick. As someone's signature says, you can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear, but you can make a mighty fast pig... :D

[Ferrer]

I like the 1.9TDi... it's punchy, and mighty quick. As someone's signature says, you can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear, but you can make a mighty fast pig... :D
While agree they are suprisingly quick considering the power, I don't know if I could live with the noise and vibrations everyday...

[IWantAnAudiRS6]

While agree they are suprisingly quick considering the power, I don't know if I could live with the noise and vibrations everyday...

I can see your point, as you could play Diana Krall at 10,000 decibels and it still wouldn't be 'loud' ;)

All my music drowns out a poorly sound-deadened Peugeot, so I think I'll be OK... :cool:

The vibrations would be trickier to deal with, however.

[Ferrer]

I can see your point, as you could play Diana Krall at 10,000 decibels and it still wouldn't be 'loud' ;)

All my music drowns out a poorly sound-deadened Peugeot, so I think I'll be OK... :cool:

The vibrations would be trickier to deal with, however.
Well I always say the same, but I remeber when my uncle's Audi A6 2.5 TDI was started on a cold morning, I sounded dreadful. Altough I guess you could turn on the radio and the start the car... :p

[Waugh-terfall]

I'm with Sam on this, I want an 04 Focus TDCi, better fuel economy, more torque, and I realy don't mind modern diesels noises.

[jediali]

I'm with Sam on this, I want an 04 Focus TDCi, better fuel economy, more torque, and I realy don't mind modern diesels noises.

the 1.6 tdci in that focus is ace, 60 mpg and enough oomph! One of my favourite contemporary diesels.

[Waugh-terfall]

the 1.6 tdci in that focus is ace, 60 mpg and enough oomph! One of my favourite contemporary diesels.

You mean the 1.8TDCi (115bhp)?
I want the above in 5dr Zetec/Edge or Sport forms.:D

[jediali]

You mean the 1.8TDCi (115bhp)?
I want the above in 5dr Zetec/Edge or Sport forms.:D
i mean the 1.6 thats also found in french hatches too. i know the 1.8 is also fine, but for the price and size...

[IWantAnAudiRS6]

I think there's a 1.6HDi in most of the Citroën range, and also the Peugeot 307... which is the same engine... Ford use it from PSA :)

[Ferrer]

You mean the 1.8TDCi (115bhp)?
I want the above in 5dr Zetec/Edge or Sport forms.:D
The Focus you want didn't have the 1.6-litre diesel co-developed between Ford and PSA. And if you do low mileage a petrol should be all you need...

[Quiggs]

The 1.9TDI can nevAr lo0se!!!

[The_Canuck]

Ok we get it VAG engines can't lose. Now go bug Rocke.

:p

[IWantAnAudiRS6]

The 1.9TDI can nevAr lo0se!!!

****in' right :D that's why I want one!

[jediali]

The 1.9TDI can nevAr lo0se!!!
except to the sound of rythmic hammers!

[Quiggs]

The knocking noise lets you know it's kicking ass and taking names.

[Waugh-terfall]

The Focus you want didn't have the 1.6-litre diesel co-developed between Ford and PSA. And if you do low mileage a petrol should be all you need...

I didn't think so, I couldn't find it anywhere.

I'll probably do a fair bit if milage, I'll just not stop driving! lol.

Quiggs, 2.0TDI > 1.9TDI

[jcp123]

It still sounds like a tractor though.

When I was coming up in the early 90's, we had a '79 Mercedes 300SD. So, to say the least, diesel "noises" don't bother me a lick, I'm perfectly accustomed to it - I even kind of enjoy it.

[Ferrer]

When I was coming up in the early 90's, we had a '79 Mercedes 300SD. So, to say the least, diesel "noises" don't bother me a lick, I'm perfectly accustomed to it - I even kind of enjoy it.
You can't tell me that in the land of the big V8... :(

[IWantAnAudiRS6]

The 1.9TDI can nevAr lo0se!!!

So what happens in a race between a 1.8T and a 1.9TDi? :confused:

[Quiggs]

They tie. Every time.

[IWantAnAudiRS6]

But... that means they both lose... or... oh well! I love the 1.9TDi. Seriously looking at Seat Ibiza 1.9TDi PD Sport. Insurance is group 7... and for the same engine in a Fabia, it's group 9, the Audi A4 is about group 11/12... so seems I may be making a canny decision! :eek:

[Quiggs]

It's like in hockey. If the game goes to overtime, both teams get a point. They don't necessarily win, but they don't lose either.

[Ferrer]

But... that means they both lose... or... oh well! I love the 1.9TDi. Seriously looking at Seat Ibiza 1.9TDi PD Sport. Insurance is group 7... and for the same engine in a Fabia, it's group 9, the Audi A4 is about group 11/12... so seems I may be making a canny decision! :eek:
You know my opinion...

[IWantAnAudiRS6]

You know my opinion...

Luddite :p

[Clivey]

The 1.9TDi VAG engine had "Pump Duse" - which was supposed to be a Commonrail equivalent. Something I find strange though is that the Golf Mk4 could be bought with a 150PS version of the TDi, whereas the new Mk5 2.0TDi is "only" 140PS...

As I've already said to Sam, I'm after a 2006 Vectra SRi with the 1.9CDTi 150PS engine. It's actually more fuel efficient than my 1.4 petrol - and with twice as much punch.

I've looked at the stocklists at my local dealerships and managed to find a few 6,000 mile-old cars for £11,200, but the colour choices SUCK. Walk into a dealership in the UK right now and unless you like grey, you're screwed. I may settle for silver but I'd prefer a pearlescent red or the blue that I have now. My main critisism with new Vauxhall cars is the colour choices (they've removed all the decent colours from the Astra and Vectra ranges as of last year). If they want to shed the boring image, they need to paint their cars with something other than primer.

[jediali]

The 1.9TDi VAG engine had "Pump Duse" - which was supposed to be a Commonrail equivalent. Something I find strange though is that the Golf Mk4 could be bought with a 150PS version of the TDi, whereas the new Mk5 2.0TDi is "only" 140PS...

As I've already said to Sam, I'm after a 2006 Vectra SRi with the 1.9CDTi 150PS engine. It's actually more fuel efficient than my 1.4 petrol - and with twice as much punch.

I've looked at the stocklists at my local dealerships and managed to find a few 6,000 mile-old cars for £11,200, but the colour choices SUCK. Walk into a dealership in the UK right now and unless you like grey, you're screwed. I may settle for silver but I'd prefer a pearlescent red or the blue that I have now. My main critisism with new Vauxhall cars is the colour choices (they've removed all the decent colours from the Astra and Vectra ranges as of last year). If they want to shed the boring image, they need to paint their cars with something other than primer.

there is 170 version of the 2.0tdi, the 150 version of the 1.9tdi wasnt that common anyway, not compared to the jumpy 130. The vectra will be good for blending in with all the reps.

As far as pump duse goes, and this has already been discussed on this forum, its an entirely different approach to generating fuel pressure at the injector. Common rail is just that a cmmon rail with a common pump, Vw use individual pumps inside each injector, like old diesels, thats unit injection.

[Clivey]

there is 170 version of the 2.0tdi

That's recent then. Last time I checked it was just the 140PS version. I say it's 170 + superchip time.:D


The vectra will be good for blending in with all the reps.

That's why I want a non-rep colour...actually around where I live, the BMW 5-Series is the rep car (half of the houses in the vicinity of mine have BMW's on the driveways - all of them bought for the "image") and next door has a black Vectra SRi as his own car.

In fact, as well as our experiences with New Minis, I've seen plenty of evidence that BMW's don't deserve the reputation (the drivers do though!:rolleyes: ). The BMW assistance van was at one time a more frequent sight than our postman. Actually, maybe the postman isn't a good example to use...! :D

[jediali]

Haha, testament that the 3 series outsells the mondeo, Around here the fleet cars are the mondeos, lagunas, vectras, avensis, etc..you see young oil engineers in them and you get the distinct feeling they never bought them.

[Waugh-terfall]

Clive, try WhiteRose Vauxhall, Liss, Petersfield, Hampshire's website, I think they've got some decent examples in there, if you find one you like see if you can get them to bring it up to you.