Ultima vs. whatever you can think of.

[wanker rotary]

Okay, first thread. Pretty simple, the thread discussion topic is that of the ultima GTR, with the 640 engine and all the "toys" (apparently to ultima, "seats and a steering wheel"); can it be matched by anything you can think of, at least inn terms of sport-car-ness. That includes handling, acceleration, composure in bad conditions, comfort, and price. I don't think anything in its price bracket can even touch it, so 2 times as much is welcome for discussion

[IWantAnAudiRS6]

I think pretty much everything can have it on comfort. Price- how much is it?

Can you give us all the performance figures, statistics, etc?

Thanks, and welcome- you've opened a nice can of worms!

[clutch-monkey]

are we restricted to cars?

[my porsche]

Ariel Atom 2, and for cheaper, too.

[IWantAnAudiRS6]

... And if you get the supercharged one, then no one's stopping you!

What about that thing that's meant to have 1,000bhp/tonne? The new hypercar... er... help! :o

[Mr.Tiv]

... And if you get the supercharged one, then no one's stopping you!

What about that thing that's meant to have 1,000bhp/tonne? The new hypercar... er... help! :o

Caparo T1?

[IWantAnAudiRS6]

Yeah, that's the one. Stupidly quick, terribly ugly and hopefully destined to fail...

[my porsche]

... And if you get the supercharged one, then no one's stopping you!The Ariel?

[IWantAnAudiRS6]

The Ariel?

Yes, Colon. The Ariel. Typo intended! :D

[sicilian973-2]

instead put the gtr 720 vs fxx..bye bye...you didnt set any parameters so there you go..

[ruim20]

instead put the gtr 720 vs fxx..bye bye...you didnt set any parameters so there you go..

Bye bye Fxx, yeah i'm with you on that to, the Fxx would need a rope to keep pace!

Fanboy power doesn't make it go faster!

[Ferrer]

Bye bye Fxx, yeah i'm with you on that to, the Fxx would need a rope to keep pace!

Fanboy power doesn't make it go faster!
And it isn't road legal so that would render pretty much useless here.

I personally would prefer something more relaxed but fast. So probably an Aston Martin DB9 SP.

[092326001]

A super Caterham might on a curvy track

A Mitsubishi Evo can beat on a rally cross track

[sicilian973-2]

im sayin the fxx would kill this

[Imakuni]

In your dreams...

[sicilian973-2]

why. because you're a Ferrari hater

[sicilian973-2]

hater

[Rockefella]

Caparo T1 > Ultima. Hell, AXB > Ultima.

[fisetdavid26]

im sayin the fxx would kill this
Yeah you already said so...

[my porsche]

im sayin the fxx would kill this

Im sayin' you should lose the chest wig, gold chain, excessive cologn, and whatever ferrari apparel you more than likely are wearing and quit being a fanboy.

[kingofthering]

why. because you're a Ferrari hater

No, because he is allowed to have an opinion.


After doing some research, I found that they're pretty well matched, except for the 0.2 0-60 advantage the Ferrari. But this can be overcome with more POWER!

[:Exige:]

The Ultima GTR 720 can be built for about £70k (sometimes less depending on how reliable you want it to be ;)), which is less than half the price of the Caparo. There are videos of it on the Ultima website showing that it's not all that much of a handful in the wet. And the Ultima holds the record for the highest amount of g force held on a skidpan from a road car, which means it handles pretty well, and any fears of understeer can be killed by applying a bit more power to lose some of the grip.

Because it is essentially a kit car, you cannot judge the luxury because it varies between cars:
This is an Ultima interior
http://carcraft.com/featuredvehicles/116_0402_04_z+ultima_GTR+interior.jpg
And so is this
http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/6241/black9inter5xwxe4.jpg

In general they are by far more practical and comfortable than Caterhams/Radicals/Ariels. And for the record, both the 640 and 720 are faster than the quickest Atom. They used an Ultima as the test mule for the McLaren F1, and similarly it has some inventive storage methods. The door sills have cubby-holes that (from experience) are big enough to fit everything you'll need for a rally, including crates of beer :D

And when it comes to expenses, fuel is a bitch like with any powerful car, but surprisingly isn't too much more expensive than running a Lotus Exige S1. And spares and repairs are as cheap as Korean whores because the motor is more often than not a small-block Chevy unit, so spares can be sourced from everywhere short of the bargain basement at your local porn shop. Also means no stupid inflation that seems to get whenever a manufacturer distributes their own parts.

Clamshells can be expensive, but presuming you're not using custom CF clams (They're about £7k for both ends from Reverie i think) and are sticking to the stock fibreglass ones, they're cheaper than how much Lotus charges for Exige clams. At the end of the day, if you're going to crash, try to do it on your roof or something :) Also the Chevy V8 has a damn sexy engine bay ... I never thought I'd be sexually attracted to chrome rocker covers. And the clutch seems to be more acceptable in traffic than the Exige.

At the end of the day, if you want a car that is going to make you feel alive and dominant on the road and track, without being a millionaire, the Ultima is your best bet. It excels in so many areas, including top-end power which Atoms/Caterhams/Lotus seem to lack. If you're devout enough, it will work out to be a daily driver too. If you want luxury and something that will go down well with your gin and tonic or whatever trendies drink nowadays, go away ... get a Porsche or something ... I don't care, I'm sure you'll talk about the stock exchange or something if I show any interest.

[clutch-monkey]

hater
isn't having multiple accounts a bannable offense..

[VtecMini]

Yeah, that's the one. Stupidly quick, terribly ugly and hopefully destined to fail...Just out of curiosity, what's not to like about the Caparo?

[Rockefella]

Just out of curiosity, what's not to like about the Caparo?

Agreed. It's stupidly quick. Corners at incredible speeds. It's light as a feather. It looks rediculous.

That's pretty much the definition of a supercar.

[h00t_h00t]

Just out of curiosity, what's not to like about the Caparo?

I hate that the cockpit style roof is only optional.

[kingofthering]

Agreed. It's stupidly quick. Corners at incredible speeds. It's light as a feather. It looks rediculous.

That's pretty much the definition of a supercar.

Like 99% of the supercars in the world, it's also dangerously impractical for daily driving.

[Kitdy]

Why does the Ultima GTR look so bad - other than that, where can I sign to get one?

All the tiny companies that make just one supercar seem to make really ugly lumps that go really fast (Koenigsegg seems to be a counterexample to this trend however.)

What I cannot for the life of me understand is why a larger company doesn't lay it all down on the line and make a cohesive, reliable unit that shatters all of these kit cars and small company get-ups by doing everything inhouse. I guess it doesn't fit their busisness strategy or something but I think haveing the baddest machine on the market is something that is very marketable and will make people instantly have brand recognition. For example, why doesn't Ferrari or Porsche make something like an Atom or an Ultima GTR? THat in my mind would be the ultimate road car.

[clutch-monkey]

Like 99% of the supercars in the world, it's also dangerously impractical for daily driving.
define 'impractical'
if i can fit in it with a backpack on the passenger seat it's practical enough for me to use on a daily basis.

[Kitdy]

define 'impractical'
if i can fit in it with a backpack on the passenger seat it's practical enough for me to use on a daily basis.

Agreed. What do you really need more than a backpack for on a daily basis anyways? And when do you take more than one person in your car? Of course, I can see what you mean kingofthering, but if I had a supercar and it somehoe limited my day-to-day driving, I would change my day-to-day driving to suit it. And I doubt I'd have to change anything (except don't use it in the rain or winter.)

[sicilian973-2]

Im sayin' you should lose the chest wig, gold chain, excessive cologn, and whatever ferrari apparel you more than likely are wearing and quit being a fanboy.
dude im sicilian i take that personally dork.for your info i have no chesthair i wear a moderate amount of cologne(Ferrari RED or Black,never had yellow),and i do have a few Ferrari polos,hats and a custom made spray-painted thermal(ill post it),yet none of that is for you to comment on because like every one hear i am entitled to an opinion,yet my "opinions" just happen to be fact.

[clutch-monkey]

dude im sicilian i take that personally dork.for your info i have no chesthair
:D you must wax lol

i wear a moderate amount of cologne(Ferrari RED or Black,never had yellow),and i do have a few Ferrari polos,hats and a custom made spray-painted thermal(ill post it
LOL
you do know ferrari makes cars right?
i mean, if i liked ferrari, i wouldn't be wasting my money on that crap :rolleyes:

[Sauc3]

And it isn't road legal so that would render pretty much useless here.

I personally would prefer something more relaxed but fast. So probably an Aston Martin DB9 SP.
Going by the same 'relaxed but fast' attitude, I'm gonna have to go with the Wiesmann GT. Of course I'm outrageously biased though. :D

[:Exige:]

What I cannot for the life of me understand is why a larger company doesn't lay it all down on the line and make a cohesive, reliable unit that shatters all of these kit cars and small company get-ups by doing everything inhouse.
Well the premise that comes with large companies is large profit. Kit car manufacture is a low-output business. They make a small amount of cars and make a small amount of profit so at the end of the day they're just about covering the cost of the car with a little bit on the side. It costs alot of money to develop a new car, and thus they have to wait a while before they have the equity to fund a new car.

VW were going to make a kit-car style vehicle with the help of Lotus, but it was destined to fail because VW would make a serious loss. A manufacturer has a reputation to live up to, and so every car must be engineered to a certain level of quality ... for a brand like Porsche or even VW to make a rival to the Ultima, you're talking about alot of money, which would make the Ultima rival probably around the range of £200k instead of £70k. The development that went into making the Veyron as fast as it is put more that £70k onto the price-tag of each Veyron for sure. We're talking more about £400k per car, I would guess.

Look at Caparo ... they're making a non-kit car rival and they're just about to cross the £180k mark per unit. However, I suppose you get what you pay for, and if you're looking for something reliable, it's best you stay away from supercars altogether :D

And for the record, I like the looks of the Ultima, though I'd talk about getting custom moulds done so that I could fit the oval headlights from the earlier Ultima race-cars.


Going by the same 'relaxed but fast' attitude, I'm gonna have to go with the Wiesmann GT. Of course I'm outrageously biased though. :D
And this is one of the points that we have to make. You don't have to pay huge amounts of money and have huge amounts of speed for a car to be fun. The most fun I've ever had was in a 1.6 litre Lotus 7 replica with 120bhp.

[Sauc3]

And this is one of the points that we have to make. You don't have to pay huge amounts of money and have huge amounts of speed for a car to be fun. The most fun I've ever had was in a 1.6 litre Lotus 7 replica with 120bhp.
Exactly, now unfortunately I haven't had a similar experience in those extremely light sportscars, but I imagine that something such as a 205 GTi would be overall more fun than something like an Ultima 720 GTR thingo. It's about the passion behind the car, how each person feels about the car, not about what the car is technically capable of. Which is why Sicilian-Ferrari-Prinze-973-1-2 or whatever is actually right, for him the FXX rules all. Unfortunately he doesn't seem to bring it across in an appropriate manner. A simple "The FXX would be right for me, I personally would not choose an Ultima over the FXX." would have sufficed rather than "the FXX shits all over this." which is just uncalled for and frankly quite rude in regard to other members.

[Ferrer]

Exactly, now unfortunately I haven't had a similar experience in those extremely light sportscars, but I imagine that something such as a 205 GTi would be overall more fun than something like an Ultima 720 GTR thingo. It's about the passion behind the car, how each person feels about the car, not about what the car is technically capable of. Which is why Sicilian-Ferrari-Prinze-973-1-2 or whatever is actually right, for him the FXX rules all. Unfortunately he doesn't seem to bring it across in an appropriate manner. A simple "The FXX would be right for me, I personally would not choose an Ultima over the FXX." would have sufficed rather than "the FXX shits all over this." which is just uncalled for and frankly quite rude in regard to other members.
Well put. I completely agree.

[Mr.Tiv]

I can't think of any extremely high performance vehicle that can compare to this as far as value goes. No, it not exactly cheap, but for c.90K it's virtually unbeatable. It's what you want it to be, and that, alone, is certainly worth something.

In my opinion, for the little that it's worth, it's a beautiful car. It's very clean, very simple, yet, it's by no means subtle.

Considering that most of the car is to your specification, since, in most cases, you'll be building it yourself, it should suit you perfectly.

The preformance is as outrageous as you want it to be.


0-100mph-0 comparison times

Ultima GTR 9.4secs

Bugatti Veyron 9.9secs

Ferrari Enzo 10.9secs

McLaren F1 LM 11.5secs

Porsche Carrera GT 11.6secs

Pagani Zonda 11.8secs

Porsche 911 Ruf R Turbo 13.1secs

Ferrari F40 13.8secs

Lamborghini Murcielago 13.9secs

Dodge Viper SRT-10 14.6secs

Aston Martin DB9 14.9secs

Honda NSX Type-R 16.2secs


0-60mph comparison times

Ultima GTR 2.6secs

Bugatti Veyron 2.8secs

Ferrari Enzo 3.4secs

McLaren F1 LM 3.2secs

Porsche Carrera GT 3.7secs

Pagani Zonda 3.7secs

Porsche 911 Ruf R Turbo 3.7secs

Ferrari F40 3.8secs

Lamborghini Murcielago 4.0secs

Dodge Viper SRT-10 4.4secs

Aston Martin DB9 5.0secs

Honda NSX Type-R 4.9secs


0-100mph comparison times

Ultima GTR 5.3secs

Bugatti Veyron 5.5secs

Ferrari Enzo 6.7secs

McLaren F1 LM 6.3secs

Porsche Carrera GT 7.4secs

Pagani Zonda 7.5secs

Porsche 911 Ruf R Turbo 8.5secs

Ferrari F40 7.8secs

Lamborghini Murcielago 9.0secs

Dodge Viper SRT-10 9.5secs

Aston Martin DB9 10.2secs

Honda NSX Type-R 11.4secs


100mph-0 braking comparison times
(not including drivers reaction time)

Ultima GTR 3.6secs

Bugatti Veyron 4.2secs

Ferrari Enzo 4.0secs

McLaren F1 LM 4.6secs

Porsche Carrera GT 4.1secs

Pagani Zonda 4.0secs

Porsche 911 Ruf R Turbo 4.2secs

Ferrari F40 4.7secs

Lamborghini Murcielago 4.4secs

Dodge Viper SRT-10 4.7secs

Aston Martin DB9 4.4secs

Honda NSX Type-R 4.4secs

As far as mid-engined supercars are concerned, for me, a GTR is perfect. Now, that's not to say that there aren't more than a dozen other cars I'd rather have. Without comparing it to things that are particularly dissimilar, I can't think of anything better.

[my porsche]

I think it would be fun to buy/build an Ultima Can-Am, put in the 300hp engine (0-60 in 4 secs is fine for me!) all for around $50k it looks like...

[sicilian973-2]

:D you must wax lol

LOL
you do know ferrari makes cars right?
i mean, if i liked ferrari, i wouldn't be wasting my money on that crap :rolleyes:
i dont wax, and if i didnt know they are a car manufacturer id tell Matra to shoot me,and my assets arent crap.watch how you come out about people's possesions,and ill spend my money on whatever i want.thank you very much,"monkey"

[Vaigra]

Ferrari cologne...As far as I remember, none of them actually smell remotely decent. Save your money and buy a decent cologne. I recommend Cerutti 1881 or Paco Rabanne Ultraviolet (for men, obviously)

[Rockefella]

Save your money and buy a decent cologne. I recommend Cerutti 1881 or Paco Rabanne Ultraviolet (for men, obviously)

Liar. You wear women's perfume.

[Vaigra]

I shall never admit it.

[sicilian973-2]

that was funny

[sicilian973-2]

and where is 6speed

[Rockefella]

and where is 6speed

Dead. I think..

[Jack_Bauer]

Ferrari cologne...As far as I remember, none of them actually smell remotely decent. Save your money and buy a decent cologne. I recommend Cerutti 1881 or Paco Rabanne Ultraviolet (for men, obviously)

I recommend 'Sex Panther' by Odeon. It's illegal in nine countries, made with real bits of panther so you know it's good. They've done studies, 60% of the time it works every time.

[Vaigra]

that was funny
We aim to please. Please do the same and leave. You'll end up in the same situation as 6speed pretty soon otherwise.

I recommend 'Sex Panther' by Odeon. It's illegal in nine countries, made with real bits of panther so you know it's good. They've done studies, 60% of the time it works every time.

I use it quite often.

[Rockefella]

I use it quite often.

It works well when the goal is beastiality.

[Vaigra]

You have no idea.

[Rockefella]

You have no idea.

If I said I did would that be a problem?

[Vaigra]

Not at all. You'd be embraced.

[kingofthering]

define 'impractical'
if i can fit in it with a backpack on the passenger seat it's practical enough for me to use on a daily basis.

2 words. Fender-bender.

Caparo T1 + Ford Expediton driven by soccer mom = sharp suspension pieces hitting random civilians.

[aNOBLEman]

2 words. Fender-bender.

Caparo T1 + Ford Expediton driven by soccer mom = sharp suspension pieces hitting random civilians.

That doesn't make it impractical, just hazardous to civilians.

[CdocZ]

2 words. Fender-bender.

Caparo T1 + Ford Expediton driven by soccer mom = sharp suspension pieces hitting random civilians.

*shrugs*. You never know. A Chevy Suburban recently hit a Porsche 911 - the guy in the 911 came out fine, the suburban flipped over and killed the driver. Porsche's aren't exactly heavyweights, or designed to take a Suburban-type of impact, heheh.

[Sledgehammer]

*shrugs*. the suburban flipped over and killed the driver.

Might the porsche have been a ramp, considering the front on the porsche is so low, and the wheels on the suburban are so large... course that would only be for a head to head impact.

Back to thread. Ultima vs. S7TT would be good around a lengthy track. Downforce FTW.

[clutch-monkey]

i watch how you come out about people's possesions,and ill spend my money on whatever i want.thank you very much,"monkey"
doesn't make you any less of a superficial, fanboyish pillock.


2 words. Fender-bender.

Caparo T1 + Ford Expediton driven by soccer mom = sharp suspension pieces hitting random civilians.

the ford would have broken down long before it got to me, and in an ultima i could avoid all such incidents with my mighty reflexes. :D

[sicilian973-2]

We aim to please. Please do the same and leave. You'll end up in the same situation as 6speed pretty soon .
are you threatining me?

[The_Canuck]

are you threatining me?

With a ban.

[Vaigra]

Yes, boys, be very afraid. I did ban the fella....¬_¬

[Kitdy]

New Ultima GTR 800 on Autoblog a few days ago, now with 800hp engine. This is pretty much the car I want to own being a performance enthusiast (or The Caparo - at least it looks good); shame it looks so horrible though.

Ultima GTR 800 (http://www.autoblog.com/2007/05/04/ultima-intros-euro-emissions-compliant-800-hp-package/)

[kingofthering]

New Ultima GTR 800 on Autoblog a few days ago, now with 800hp engine. This is pretty much the car I want to own being a performance enthusiast (or The Caparo - at least it looks good); shame it looks so horrible though.

Ultima GTR 800 (http://www.autoblog.com/2007/05/04/ultima-intros-euro-emissions-compliant-800-hp-package/)

It also passes European emission testing.

[Kitdy]

It also passes European emission testing.

Hooray, fellow autoblogger! I learned of that amazing site form you actually KotR. Got any other goodies?

[Ferrer]

It still is a Kitcar with a Chevy engine, though...

[h22a]

Maybe a DeLorean DMC 12 (back to the future 2 model)
Jaguar XJ220 TWR?
Herbie VW?
R390 GT1?

[Kitdy]

It still is a Kitcar with a Chevy engine, though...

I don't see a problem there. It can pretty much whip any car out on the road - and it is relatively cheap too.

[Sledgehammer]

The Ultima is only considered the fastest 0-100-0 correct? On the website it mentioned that the ultima was the official fastest car in the world.

[Kitdy]

The Ultima is only considered the fastest 0-100-0 correct? On the website it mentioned that the ultima was the official fastest car in the world.

Their website is full of crap as far as I know - there is no way that this holds the speed record - but it is ture that it holds the 0-100-0 record. Are Ultimas even considered a production vehicle? I guess they must be...

It makes it to 100 in 2.6 seconds, so maybe the new 800hp car will beat or tie the Veyron.

[Sledgehammer]

Beat or tie the veyron only in acceleration and cornering capabilities. It cannot take down its top speed im guessing

[Ferrer]

I don't see a problem there. It can pretty much whip any car out on the road - and it is relatively cheap too.
The problem (for me) is, I don't want to sacrificise everything else for speed.

Speed is overrated.

[Sledgehammer]

The problem (for me) is, I don't want to sacrificise everything else for speed.

Speed is overrated.

Well, what else is their to sacrifice if speed is out of the equation?;)

[Slicks]

It still is a Kitcar with a Chevy engine, though...

You say that like its a bad thing...
edit...


The problem (for me) is, I don't want to sacrificise everything else for speed.

Speed is overrated.
You havent driven a fast enough car then :)
But seriously, its a performance car, it doesnt need to have great ride quality, or great gas milage, or the most comfortable leather seats ever. Its raw,mean and to the point, thats the appeal.

[Kitdy]

I do want to sacrifice everything for speed. I am not sure how these suckers handle, but I bet they are absolutely amazing. Someone should take this around the 'ring and do some serious damage - maybe knock those Radicals off the top.

[kingofthering]

Hooray, fellow autoblogger! I learned of that amazing site form you actually KotR. Got any other goodies?

http://www.racingsportscars.com/
Pics/finishing orders of sports car racing throughout the years.

[Kitdy]

http://www.racingsportscars.com/
Pics/finishing orders of sports car racing throughout the years.

Chelsea suck.

Danke Schön!

[Kooper]

My biggest problem with the Ultima is that I just can't get why each front headlight cluster needs 4 lamps each. Is it a parking-light, low-beam, mid-beam, high-beam or something? EDIT: Err, just went back and double-checked, turns out it's 3 lamps per cluster. I'll slap myself silly a bit later.

Other than that, it's great! Would love one with a 5.5 Porka V10.

Competitor? I don't know, I kind of like the Mosler.

[Ferrer]

You havent driven a fast enough car then :)
But seriously, its a performance car, it doesnt need to have great ride quality, or great gas milage, or the most comfortable leather seats ever. Its raw,mean and to the point, thats the appeal.
I understand that. I personally prefer relaxed speed. ;)

[Ingolstadt]

I do want to sacrifice everything for speed. I am not sure how these suckers handle, but I bet they are absolutely amazing. Someone should take this around the 'ring and do some serious damage - maybe knock those Radicals off the top.

Here you go, don't worry bout U-turns, the world is ROUND. :p

http://www.draglist.com/photoimages/spokane2002/Greg%20Tacke%20broke%20the%20track%20ET%20record%2 0for%20alcohol%20dragsters%20on%20Friday%20night.% 20Unfortunately%20for%20him,%20his%20record%20only %20held%20up%20for%2024%20hours.%20Photo%20by%20Da vid%20Hapgood.jpg

[Kitdy]

Here you go, don't worry bout U-turns, the world is ROUND. :p

I meant speed as in lap time speed, speed.

[h22a]

Speed racers MACH 5 would pawn the Ultima