Battle of the brands [Archive] - Ultimatecarpage.com forums

Waugh-terfall

03-03-2007, 11:42 AM

As we know, the competition in the premium sector for executive saloons and estate cars is very high, especially between the German trio, you guess it... BMW, Audi and Mercedes..
Just wondering out of the following list you lot would tend to go for.
The make, model, whether in saloon or estate form, engine and reasons why for all.

Thanks

The contenders:

Audi A4 (B7) Saloon & Avant
Saloon Starting at: £20,980.00GBP
Avant Starting at: £22.835.00GBP
Engines inlclude: 1.8TFSI (163ps) - 2.0FSI (130ps) - 2.0TFSI (200ps) - 3.2FSI(256ps) - 1.9TDI (115ps) - 2.0TDI (140ps & 170ps) - 2.7TDI (180ps) - 3.0TDI (233ps)
http://www.automotoportal.com/media/images/vijesti/060217003.jpg

BMW 3-series Saloon & Touring
Saloon Starting at: £20,705.00GBP
TouringStarting at: £21,885.00GBP
Engines include: 318i & 320i 2litre petrols - 318d & 320d 2litre diesels - 325i 2.5litre petrol - 325d 3litre diesel - 330i 3litre petrol - 330d 3litre diesel - 335i 3litre petrol - 335d 3litre diesel
http://www.carpages.co.uk/bmw/bmw_images/bmw_new_3_series_07_03_05.jpg

Mercedes C-Class Saloon & Estate
Saloon Starting at: £21,985.00GBP
Estate Starting at: £22,935.00GBP
Engines include: C180Kompressor - C200Kompressor - C230 - C280 - C350 - C55AMG - C200CDI - C220CDI - C320CDI
http://www.automedia.com/NewCarBuyersGuide/photos/2005/Mercedes-Benz/C-Class/Sedan/2005_MercedesBenz_C-Class_ext_1.jpg

Waugh-terfall

03-03-2007, 11:48 AM

As you'd have probably guessed, I've gone for the Audi A4 Avant:

Audi A4 Avant S-Line 3.0TDI Quattro
I am admittedly and Audi fan boy, I'm really not a fan of BMW's, and I think the C-Class is a bit ugly and outdated, thankfully the new one arrives this year. The A4 Avant is fairly big and practical as an estate, great 3.0Turbo Diesel engine, plenty of punch, frugal and good on fuel, S-Line pack for the bodykit and 18' alloys except I'd swap them for the 17inch twin spoke 5arms. The Audi will most certainly be well built and will hold it's value well and in my opinion it looks by far the best.

Equinox

03-03-2007, 11:52 AM

I would have to go with the BMW 3 series or any series. Its a nice looking car to me...could use some improvements. Good quality and I would go with the touring model. I do like the Mercedes but they have had some quality issues lately. I heard Mercedes ranked the lowest out of 30 some makes for reliabilty or something like that.

Audi's are nice to and nice styling and quality, but I would go with BMW. definetly a diesel between the 325d or the 335d engines.

Ferrer

03-03-2007, 12:21 PM

I think I'd rather not go German...

Waugh-terfall

03-03-2007, 12:26 PM

Italian Albert?

Ferrer

03-03-2007, 12:28 PM

Italian Albert?
Yes I was thinking Alfa Romeo 159, as you might have guessed, but while a beautiful car it is compromised from the technical point of view, so I might as well wait 2 or 3 years when it gets the weight reduction that's planned of about 150kg and by then it'll be a truly worthy car.

For now I think I'd choose a Saab 9-3 Aero Sporthatch.

Waugh-terfall

03-03-2007, 12:29 PM

Yes I was thinking Alfa Romeo 159, as you might have guessed, but while a beautiful car it is compromised from the technical point of view, so I might as well wait 2 or 3 years when it gets the weight reduction that's planned of about 150kg and by then it'll be a truly worthy car.

For now I think I'd choose a Saab 9-3 Aero Sporthatch.

Thought so, it is a very pretty car! Sporthatch? is that the estate?

Ferrer

03-03-2007, 12:33 PM

Thought so, it is a very pretty car! Sporthatch? is that the estate?
Yup it is. I specially like the white tailamps as a design feature.

Waugh-terfall

03-03-2007, 12:41 PM

Yup it is. I specially like the white tailamps as a design feature.

I thought it was the SportWagon, Agh, I'll look it up, my friend Rob who lives up the road has a 9-3 saloon 1.9TiD Vector Sport in metalic dark blue with really nice perforated leather, black in the middle, beige on the outside.
The dude directly over the lane from me has a black 9-3 1.9TiD Linear Sport SportWagon, I love the taillights too, shame all the lights aren't LED's, the non LED indicators really ruin it!:mad:

I'd quite like a 9-3 Aero SportWagon 2.8T with the 18inch alloys in Fusion Blue? with the cool Parchment leather like Rob's.:D

Ferrer

03-03-2007, 12:51 PM

Oh I forgot, I also like the Subaru Legacy 3.0R Spec-B SW.

Waugh-terfall

03-03-2007, 12:54 PM

Oh I forgot, I also like the Subaru Legacy 3.0R Spec-B SW.

OOOH yes! The SportTourer looks fantastic!

zeppelin

03-03-2007, 01:01 PM

Audi fan chiming in. Tough choice between saloon or estate, I think ultimately I'd prefer the saloon. I love Audis because of their understated elegance, gorgeous interiors, and Quattro AWD.

Vindesh17

03-03-2007, 01:33 PM

BMW saloon for me, staying within the family. Of course if there was an option for a 3 coupe that would have been my choice.

Piacki_117

03-03-2007, 01:35 PM

Peugeot 407 SW. The one that looks the best.

Waugh-terfall

03-03-2007, 03:31 PM

Audi fan chiming in. Tough choice between saloon or estate, I think ultimately I'd prefer the saloon. I love Audis because of their understated elegance, gorgeous interiors, and Quattro AWD.

don't forget the sporting image!:p

Rockefella

03-03-2007, 03:34 PM

BMW 3-series coupe, in black, with heavy tints, and a 1" drop.

ruim20

03-03-2007, 03:45 PM

I'd rather no t go german either, if i had enought money to sustain such a car i'd choose an IS350.

Not having such money, i'd be happy with the Is220d.

Waugh-terfall

03-03-2007, 03:49 PM

I was going to do all the cars from the sector, but there were a bit too many, so I stick to the German trio because the competitions seems really close between them.

Rockefella

03-03-2007, 03:51 PM

I was going to do all the cars from the sector, but there were a bit too many, so I stick to the German trio because the competitions seems really close between them.

German trio pwnz all. Italians couldn't make a proper car for like a decade (soon to change with Alfa's new releases), Japan's only got Lexus, and out of the rest of the world the only company that could compare is Citroen.

Waugh-terfall

03-03-2007, 03:54 PM

German trio pwnz all. Italians couldn't make a proper car for like a decade (soon to change with Alfa's new releases), Japan's only got Lexus, and out of the rest of the world the only company that could compare is Citroen.

Especially when equipped with a 1.8T, 1.8TFSI or 2.0TFSI I suppose;)

Ferrer

03-03-2007, 04:01 PM

don't forget the sporting image!:p
What? Regular Audis are far from sporty...

Rockefella

03-03-2007, 04:03 PM

What? Regular Audis are far from sporty...

True, but that's kind of a moot point considering the S/RS models.

Waugh-terfall

03-03-2007, 04:04 PM

What? Regular Audis are far from sporty...

new TT w/ AMR
R8
S8
S6
S4
RS4
RS6
S3
S5
the rest of the range with the S-Line package look the part, couple them with Quattro and they do the business

Ferrer

03-03-2007, 04:04 PM

True, but that's kind of a moot point considering the S/RS models.
Then an Alfa Romeo 159 1.9 JTDm with hubcaps has an imensely bigger and better sporting image than any Audi.

Rockefella

03-03-2007, 04:07 PM

Then an Alfa Romeo 159 1.9 JTDm with hubcaps has an imensely bigger and better sporting image than any Audi.

I'd like to comment but I don't even know what that car looks like, let alone the performance.

We haven't had Alfa's in America for like 2 decades.

Waugh-terfall

03-03-2007, 04:09 PM

I'd like to comment but I don't even know what that car looks like, let alone the performance.

We haven't had Alfa's in America for like 2 decades.

As described by Albert, horrible, Alfa-Romeo 1.9JTD with hubcaps is no-go

Ferrer

03-03-2007, 04:11 PM

I'd like to comment but I don't even know what that car looks like, let alone the performance.

We haven't had Alfa's in America for like 2 decades.
Basically it's an overweight, slow and expensive car. Similar to almost all the Audis you see in the street here. Yet someone mentioned sporting credentials for liking an Audi A4, to which I replied that it was a little stupid considering the average sold here (and I'm sure in most of Europe). Then you said the S/RS models acted as the sporting credentials of Audi, to which I replied that Alfa Romeo has a sporting history that would put Audi to shame, therefore an equivalent Alfa Romeo has a much more sporty image than some fancy Volkswagen from Ingolstad.

Basically that's my point. :)

Waugh-terfall

03-03-2007, 04:13 PM

Basically it's an overweight, slow and expensive car. Similar to almost all the Audis you see in the street here. Yet someone mentioned sporting credentials for liking an Audi A4, to which I replied that it was a little stupid considering the average sold here (and I'm sure in most of Europe). Then you said the S/RS models acted as the sporting credentials of Audi, to which I replied that Alfa Romeo has a sporting history that would put Audi to shame, therefore an equivalent Alfa Romeo has a much more sporty image than some fancy Volkswagen from Ingolstad.

Basically that's my point. :)

By sporting image, I was reffering to the S/RS models

Ferrer

03-03-2007, 04:16 PM

By sporting image, I was reffering to the S/RS models
8Cs (old and new), Montreal, Tipo 33, GTAs (old and new), TIs, F1 Champion, Le Mans winner, Sportscar champion...

Shall I continue?

clutch-monkey

03-03-2007, 04:19 PM

there is no 'none of the above' option?
if i had to say or be shot, the audi, on the basis that BMW's are rubbish and the Mercedes just isn't my kind oif car, i guess i see it as the camry of germany...

nota

03-03-2007, 04:27 PM

From my comparative vantage all of these panzers are overpriced and underpowered (except for the ridiculously expensive sports versions) and as far as my wallet is concerned I wouldn't be tempted by any of them :(

Rockefella

03-03-2007, 04:33 PM

8Cs (old and new), Montreal, Tipo 33, GTAs (old and new), TIs, F1 Champion, Le Mans winner, Sportscar champion...

Shall I continue?

You can if you wish, but to bring up examples that broad can just turn into a piss-fest.

I like Italian cars. I also like German cars. At this point in time, I'd prefer a German coupe or sedan/saloon from Germany, but I'd have no problem driving an Italian example. I was just trying to help out Waugh; I'm not really here to argue about which is better since, I don't care which example is superior.

jediali

03-03-2007, 04:35 PM

I think I'd rather not go German...
same here, abilty? i like the bmw but image..there all quite questionable.

Ferrer

03-03-2007, 04:37 PM

You can if you wish, but to bring up examples that broad can just turn into a piss-fest.

I like Italian cars. I also like German cars. At this point in time, I'd prefer a German coupe or sedan/saloon from Germany, but I'd have no problem driving an Italian example. I was just trying to help out Waugh; I'm not really here to argue about which is better since, I don't care which example is superior.
Well, we are here to argue, aren't we? ;)

Rockefella

03-03-2007, 04:37 PM

Well, we are here to argue, aren't we? ;)

I'll opt out then. ;)

I was arguing, but... you, umm, you know what I mean.

<leaves>

kingofthering

03-03-2007, 04:41 PM

Audi A4 saloon + Sline.

Or just give me a S4 in black.

coolieman1220

03-03-2007, 05:23 PM

what exactly is a saloon and waht exactly is a touring?

kingofthering

03-03-2007, 05:26 PM

what exactly is a saloon and waht exactly is a touring?

Saloon = 4 door sedan.

Touring = station wagon.

h00t_h00t

03-03-2007, 05:30 PM

Saloon = Sedan
Touring = Station wagon/Estate

Out of the three of those cars I'd have the Audi, its the least ugly. However if it was my money I wouldn't have any of them, I'd go for a Subaru Legacy Spec B.

:Exige:

03-03-2007, 05:48 PM

Ive got a friend with the Audi Avant and the Mercedes saloon, and to be honest the Mercedes felt cheap. Striked me as the automotive equivalent of buying an Armani keyring because you cant afford the Armani jacket (though Armani is quite queer ;)). The Audi didn't feel like it was trying to be something it wasnt. It was practical and the ride was more pleasant than the Mercedes. Interior quality was better too, because there wasn't 'fake leather' or 'fake wood'. Instead they didn't include anything that they would have to fake to be within budget, so there was some (rather top-notch) GENUINE plastic ... and brushed aluminium.

The BMW is meant to be quite a fantastic car, despite looking so generic. I have little experience with 330 however.

derekthetree

03-04-2007, 05:21 AM

two words, "I roll"

http://media.popularmechanics.com/images/PMX0606NEWCARS019_large.jpg

Ferrer

03-04-2007, 06:31 AM

The BMW is meant to be quite a fantastic car, despite looking so generic. I have little experience with 330 however.
Having driven it, I have to say it's fabulous. However I don't think I could live with those looks...

two words, "I roll"

http://media.popularmechanics.com/images/PMX0606NEWCARS019_large.jpg
That's an E-segment car...

derekthetree

03-04-2007, 06:52 AM

That's an E-segment car...

but costs the same as a D segment BMW/Audi/Merc ....

quattro_20v

03-05-2007, 08:29 AM

The V50/S40 is mostly a competitor for the skoda octavia I think, thats also a car too big for its class(exept the volvo costs more probably). You got the C30 against the A3 and 1 series and the S60 against the A4, 3-series and C-class.

I go for A4 Avant BTW. A Quattro 2.0T in black and some nice wheels would do it for me.

ruim20

03-05-2007, 08:53 AM

Ferrer

03-05-2007, 08:59 AM

I think that's a v70, ence the E-segment

The v40 is competitor for the A4/Octavia/Passat/Toledo/3-series/C-Class/Avensis/Primera, etc.
I'm sure you mean the V50 and/or S40... ;)

derekthetree

03-05-2007, 01:00 PM

I think that's a v70, ence the E-segment

The v40 is competitor for the A4/Octavia/Passat/Toledo/3-series/C-Class/Avensis/Primera, etc.

indeed it is a v70, but...

volvo v70 D5 - £26 815

bmw 320d se - £26 445

enough said :)

Ferrer

03-05-2007, 01:05 PM

indeed it is a v70, but...

volvo v70 D5 - £26 815

bmw 320d se - £26 445

enough said :)
Alfa Romeo 159 Sportwagon 2.4 JTDm - £25,750

;)

derekthetree

03-05-2007, 01:07 PM

Alfa Romeo 159 Sportwagon 2.4 JTDm - £25,750

;)

but that is a d-segment car :p

Ferrer

03-05-2007, 01:08 PM

but that is a d-segment car :p
But it looks better than both the german and swedish offerings and it's quite a lot more powerful... :)

Waugh-terfall

03-05-2007, 01:10 PM

Salfa-Romeaab 3.0V6 anyone?

derekthetree

03-05-2007, 01:12 PM

But it looks better than both the german and swedish offerings and it's quite a lot more powerful... :)

only until it rains...

and if we are going down the more beautiful/powerful route then all I have to say is

http://www.classicdriver.com/upload/images/reportagen/week_28_01/car_pop03.jpg

Waugh-terfall

03-05-2007, 01:13 PM

only until it rains...

and if we are going down the more beautiful/powerful route then all I have to say is

http://www.classicdriver.com/upload/images/reportagen/week_28_01/car_pop03.jpg

I wanted to suggest that, I love it, how many did they make if anybody knows?

Ferrer

03-05-2007, 01:26 PM

Waugh-terfall

03-05-2007, 01:27 PM

Z-segment...? :D

off the scale!

ruim20

03-06-2007, 11:32 AM

I'm sure you mean the V50 and/or S40... ;)

Yes :)

indeed it is a v70, but...

volvo v70 D5 - £26 815

bmw 320d se - £26 445

enough said :)

Ahhh, if that where the case here.. V50s cost about the same as the other segment cars :(

derekthetree

03-06-2007, 11:37 AM

Ahhh, if that where the case here.. V50s cost about the same as the other segment cars :(

well you know how to fix that :p

just the rain to put up with though :)

ruim20

03-06-2007, 11:51 AM

well you know how to fix that :p

just the rain to put up with though :)

The v50 isn't my cup of tea either, i'm just sad beacouse of our stupid Automotive Tax. I love the 159 to, but i'd be allways thinking of the ghost of malfunction with it... I'd be very happy with the IS220d, complete fanboy of it :o

Ingolstadt

03-07-2007, 12:49 AM

That Ferrari 456 Wagon is wicked.

Out of the three, I'd go with Audi Avant, RS4 pls. I hate the B7, but RS badge helps adding some extra 200hp, hence OK.

My favs in this segment are: 156 GTA SW, 159 SW, 9-3 Aero SW

For this kinda money, IS250 or Subaru Legacy.

For downright Bang/Buck = Subaru Legacy, nothing cuts it. 268hp is no joke for 320 money.

Merc & Peugeot = NO NO NO

Waugh-terfall

03-07-2007, 03:05 PM

The German lot... I forgot the Passat I believe...

Ferrer

03-07-2007, 03:25 PM

The German lot... I forgot the Passat I believe...
There are so many better alternatives...

Ingolstadt

03-07-2007, 09:28 PM

There are so many better alternatives...

There actually aren't much better cars than these, but there are better alternatives due personal prefferances. :D

IWantAnAudiRS6

03-08-2007, 12:57 AM

The original Audi Avant fanboy strikes again... in his Passion Wagon... :cool:

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a345/S65-AMG/3398_27.jpg

Ferrer

03-08-2007, 01:01 AM

There actually aren't much better cars than these, but there are better alternatives due personal prefferances. :D
Regarding the Passat (I haven't seen the figures but) I'm sure there rivals that are objectively better than the Volkswagen.

And Sam, for gods sake... buy it... :D

IWantAnAudiRS6

03-08-2007, 01:42 AM

And Sam, for gods sake... buy it... :D

I'm already in trouble over the last £50,000 (give or take £10k) that I pretty much burnt up on something overly fast and extreme :p

Ingolstadt

03-08-2007, 03:59 AM

oh my god that RS6 Plus is AWESOOMMEEE !!!!!!!!!

Waugh-terfall

03-08-2007, 01:18 PM

No Sam, buy ME one!

IWantAnAudiRS6

03-08-2007, 01:25 PM

You're alright for now, just get the hang of driving first!

The RS6 is mine, be it a Plus, a saloon, or an Avant that crashed into a tree!

jcp123

03-08-2007, 01:45 PM

Tough choice...I like the aesthetics of the Audi much better, but the Mercedes has RWD. BMW is out because...well, it's a BMW.

All in-all, I'd have to say the Benz, just for the RWD, but if Audi started using more rear-drive, it'd be a no-brainer win for them.

Ferrer

03-08-2007, 02:22 PM

All in-all, I'd have to say the Benz, just for the RWD, but if Audi started using more rear-drive, it'd be a no-brainer win for them.
If they have to use more rear drive, they'll have to start first... ;)

The new A5 has moved the engine a bit backwards, so that's a start I guess. Altough I once read that they don't want to make rear driven Audis because that'll make the Quattro models redundant.

jcp123

03-08-2007, 02:27 PM

If they have to use more rear drive, they'll have to start first... ;)

Hmm, I thought the A8 was RWD?

Ferrer

03-08-2007, 02:32 PM

Hmm, I thought the A8 was RWD?
It isn't. FWD (only the 3.2 I think) or 4WD (everywhere else).

VAG wouldn't make a RWD car even if their life depended on it.

jcp123

03-08-2007, 02:33 PM

It isn't. FWD (only the 3.2 I think) or 4WD (everywhere else).

VAG wouldn't make a RWD car even if their life depended on it.

Hmm, learn something new everyday! Didn't know that, thanks! :)

IWantAnAudiRS6

03-08-2007, 02:34 PM

I'm sure they would if it was that extreme!

Aren't old Beetles RWD?

jcp123

03-08-2007, 02:35 PM

I'm sure they would if it was that extreme!

Aren't old Beetles RWD?

Rear (mid?) engine, RWD, yes.

Ferrer

03-08-2007, 02:35 PM

I'm sure they would if it was that extreme!

Aren't old Beetles RWD?
Yes. Since then I think not another VAG car has been RWD (I could be mistaken though). However I was refering to modern VAG. Take the Lamborghini Gallardo or the Bentley Continental as examples of VAG's aversion to RWD.

IWantAnAudiRS6

03-08-2007, 02:36 PM

So is VAG a zombie now? :confused:

;)

Ferrer

03-08-2007, 02:36 PM

So is VAG a zombie now? :confused:

;)
Read the post above ;)

Prius

03-08-2007, 02:45 PM

I chose the C Class Estate. Benzes just seem to have a higher quality feel than the Audis, and all of the BMW's techno bits are enough to make a man pull his own hair out.

Waugh-terfall

03-08-2007, 02:46 PM

I chose the C Class Estate. Benzes just seem to have a higher quality feel than the Audis, and all of the BMW's techno bits are enough to make a man pull his own hair out.

Didn't Merc have a huge problem with quality over the last decade or so?

Prius

03-08-2007, 02:51 PM

I was just giving my opinion. I think benzes have a higher quality feel than Audis.

IWantAnAudiRS6

03-08-2007, 02:51 PM

Yes they did, they came in some utterly terrible places in the JD Power Survey- cars were breaking down, the interiors were cheap, and the overall feel wasn't the same as the ones that were seemingly hewn from granite just a generation before. Merc seems to be taking steps to fix that now, but Audis still have the best interiors and best image.

Ferrer

03-08-2007, 02:58 PM

but Audis still have the best interiors and best image.
I have to agree on this. If Audis have one good thing, that's interior fit and finish quality.

Prius

03-08-2007, 03:02 PM

Well, I think that MB interiors have a high quality feel to them. But then again, maybe I am too used to sitting in plastic filled Cadillac interiors.

IWantAnAudiRS6

03-08-2007, 03:10 PM

Sit in an Audi interior for a while, then realise how good they are. Welcome back, btw. When are you actually going to just settle down, instead of making random comebacks? :p

Prius

03-08-2007, 03:15 PM

I dunno. I deciede to post again, then I forget about here and make long leaves of absence. Then i remember and come back. Maybe I shouldn't have it hidden so deeply in my favorites...

i don't know why, but Audi has never appealed to me as much as MB has. I know how good cars Audi's make.The Audi RSes are nearly engineering masterpieces, but there is just something I don't really like about them.

IWantAnAudiRS6

03-08-2007, 03:19 PM

Eh, fair enough. I feel the same way about BMW, to be honest. Used to love them, up until the Bangle era. Now they're alright, but I'd rather have an Audi or Merc, unless someone offers any M5 up to the E60, and any 3-Series up to the E46.

Prius

03-08-2007, 03:37 PM

I really think that Audis are great cars. But there is something about the Benzes I just like better. Maybe its MB's heritage. I don't know. But I do think that Audis are great cars. I just like Benzes a bit better.

I think the new BMws ruined everything that would make you want a BMW. The new BMWs miss the mark as a Luxury sedan IMO. They just let technology take over everything. It seems that all BMW is focused on is how much useless technology they can pack into one car. The reason why you would want a BMW is because of the car's style and prestige. THey don't even have that. They don't look like luxury cars at all. The new Saturns look more like luxury cars than the new BMWs. Plus, it doesn't help that you have to be BIll Gates to knwo how to operate it. The average Luxury Car buyer in the United States barely knows how to work a computer, so I bet all the techno bits are a real turn off. It didn't work with the Buick Reatta/Oldsmobile Trofeo, and it doesn't work now either.

Waugh-terfall

03-09-2007, 02:03 PM

up until say, the current E-Class came out, all MB's interiors were bloody aweful, the outgoing C-Class, old A-CLass, old ML-Class, mk1 SLK were all damned aweful!

Ferrer

03-09-2007, 02:07 PM

up until say, the current E-Class came out, all MB's interiors were bloody aweful, the outgoing C-Class, old A-CLass, old ML-Class, mk1 SLK were all damned aweful!
There was life before the 90's...

The_Canuck

03-09-2007, 02:07 PM

I think the new BMws ruined everything that would make you want a BMW. The new BMWs miss the mark as a Luxury sedan IMO. They just let technology take over everything. It seems that all BMW is focused on is how much useless technology they can pack into one car. The reason why you would want a BMW is because of the car's style and prestige. THey don't even have that. They don't look like luxury cars at all. The new Saturns look more like luxury cars than the new BMWs. Plus, it doesn't help that you have to be BIll Gates to knwo how to operate it. The average Luxury Car buyer in the United States barely knows how to work a computer, so I bet all the techno bits are a real turn off. It didn't work with the Buick Reatta/Oldsmobile Trofeo, and it doesn't work now either.

Same goes for lexus, hate them with a passion.

But I do love the older BMWs...

Waugh-terfall

03-09-2007, 02:12 PM

There was life before the 90's...

old Mercs had really nice interiors, 80's and on was the downfall...

Prius

03-09-2007, 02:18 PM

Same goes for lexus, hate them with a passion.

But I do love the older BMWs...

Agreed. The previous generation Bimmers are among my favorite cars, but now, it seems that they are taking the whirling propeller badge and dragging it through the mud.

Ferrer

03-09-2007, 02:23 PM

Agreed. The previous generation Bimmers are among my favorite cars, but now, it seems that they are taking the whirling propeller badge and dragging it through the mud.
Oh no, you haven't seen anything... This (http://www.vehidex.com/photos/serie2/lancia_musa1.jpg) (amongst other things) is how you destroy a brand completely. BMW's have just gotten a little bit ugly, but they are still fantastic to drive. And the styling can always change...

Prius

03-09-2007, 02:28 PM

Yep. That gastly thing and/or badge engineering are pretty much a brand's lethal injection. The reason for Oldsmobile and Plymouth dieing is badge engineering. Plymouths were too much like Dodges, and Oldsmobiles were too much like Buicks. Too much overlap. And yes, the new bimmers are great driving cars, but the styling and the iDrive are just killing everything. I already explained how frustrating and complicated the iDrive is. It should be called iCauseawreck instead. And I know that at least I wouldn't want to drive a car that looked like it has been through a crusher.

But yes, the styling can change, hopefully this is just a phase, and they go back to their old ways for the next generation of BMW.

Rockefella

03-09-2007, 02:30 PM

Waugh-terfall

03-09-2007, 02:42 PM

BMW's iDrive sucks ass big time! It's bloody aweful!

Prius

03-09-2007, 03:02 PM

Ugh, I thought maybe you've changed Tony. Instead of being a fanboy of the Prius, or hating Focuses, now you love Mercedes and hate BMW, and won't shut up about it..

Learn to eliminate/reduce your biases.

I dont' hate BMw, but I don't agree with the new direction in where they are going. The stuff like the iDrive is just watering down what used to be great cars.

Rockefella

03-09-2007, 03:04 PM

I dont' hate BMw, but I don't agree with the new direction in where they are going. The stuff like the iDrive is just watering down what used to be great cars.

Oh please. The electronic systems in Mercedes and Audi are hardly better.

Prius

03-09-2007, 03:06 PM

But they are easier to avoid.

Maybe I am being a bit too hard on BMW.

Ferrer

03-09-2007, 03:07 PM

Oh please. The electronic systems in Mercedes and Audi are hardly better.
You're right on this. The one I've used (Audi's) is confusing at best...

henk4

03-09-2007, 03:08 PM

out of those the Passat is by far the best choice....

Ferrer

03-09-2007, 03:10 PM

out of those the Passat is by far the best choice....
Out of which? :confused:

Prius

03-09-2007, 03:12 PM

I have to admit, I am really impressed by the new Passat. I think VW finally got the Luxury formula right. The Phaethon was going too far. I think it should have been an Audi instead. It is a great car, but too high end for the VW badge, which is why it was such a large flop. I think the new Passat has the formula right. There is luxury, but it stops south of Audi, and remains in the borders of VW's portfolio. They seem to have finally found that "in between" variable.

Rockefella

03-09-2007, 03:14 PM

You're right on this. The one I've used (Audi's) is confusing at best...

And Audi's electronic system is considered the 'easiest' of the three, just to put it all in proportion. It's like trying to choose from two things that suck.

Waugh-terfall

03-09-2007, 03:22 PM

You're right on this. The one I've used (Audi's) is confusing at best...

You've gotta be joking, MMI is sooo easy to use! And I'm not just saying that because I use it all the time, In the dealerhips and on test drives etc we just couldn't get used to the iDrive, it's just a load of horse ****.

The_Canuck

03-09-2007, 03:25 PM

How about not judging cars based on optional equipment...? :D

Ferrer

03-09-2007, 03:25 PM

You've gotta be joking, MMI is sooo easy to use! And I'm not just saying that because I use it all the time, In the dealerhips and on test drives etc we just couldn't get used to the iDrive, it's just a load of horse ****.
I hate the blank buttons which do various functions depending on what you're fiddling with. What's wrong with a separate radio?

Ferrer

03-09-2007, 03:26 PM

How about not judging cars based on optional equipment...? :D
IIRC MMI is standard at least in the Audi A6.

Waugh-terfall

03-09-2007, 03:26 PM

well, considering if you're buying one of these, you'd want to know which would be easiest to work with and live with on a daily basis, we're providing knowledge with our experiences.:)

Ferrer

03-09-2007, 03:30 PM

well, considering if you're buying one of these, you'd want to know which would be easiest to work with and live with on a daily basis, we're providing knowledge with our experiences.:)
Just remember, there's life outside the german brands.

Waugh-terfall

03-09-2007, 03:30 PM

I hate the blank buttons which do various functions depending on what you're fiddling with. What's wrong with a separate radio?

you mean the ones around the central dial? it explains what they do on the screen so I find no problem.
When it's all integrated into one it just makes the dash's alot less cluttered looking. IMO

IIRC MMI is standard at least in the Audi A6.

MMI Basic is standard, the small monochrome screen (red & black) MMI High is an option and then you have CD-ROM Satelite Navigation and DVD-Rom Navigation, if you choose DVD Sat Nav, MMI High comes with it, I'm not so sure about CD SatNav, I think it works on both.

Ferrer

03-09-2007, 03:32 PM

you mean the ones around the central dial? it explains what they do on the screen so I find no problem.
When it's all integrated into one it just makes the dash's alot less cluttered looking. IMO
Yup those. It's not intuitive because they do different things depending on which mode you're. I prefer the classic arrangement. I for instance now what everything does in the Mini and I prefer it that way.

Waugh-terfall

03-09-2007, 03:32 PM

Just remember, there's life outside the german brands.

I know, considering I've had experience of Britishx2, Frenchx2, Japenese I know there's more than the German lot, the German lot, mainly Audi tend to be my favourite:D Fanboyism ftw.

Waugh-terfall

03-09-2007, 03:34 PM

Yup those. It's not intuitive because they do different things depending on which mode you're. I prefer the classic arrangement. I for instance now what everything does in the Mini and I prefer it that way.

Yeah, I see what you mean, but I find it far easier to use the MMI than it was with the Audi Concert II system in the old car, the sily abreviations, it's the same with the Clarion unit in the Mazda. The LandRover's was a little confusing too, but I broke most of the buttons off of that anyway...

Ingolstadt

03-09-2007, 07:40 PM

Dash without integrated interface:

I DONT LIKE.

http://us1.webpublications.com.au/static/images/articles/i9/0981_5mg.jpg

This, is how they should be. STEREO = STEREO, AIRCON = AIRCON ......

http://www.carpages.co.uk/alfa_romeo/alfa_romeo_images/alfa_romeo_159_interior_15_02_06.jpg

henk4

03-10-2007, 02:05 AM

How about not judging cars based on optional equipment...? :D

they they will reach Porsche price levels too....

Prius

03-10-2007, 05:56 AM

Dash without integrated interface:

I DONT LIKE.

This, is how they should be. STEREO = STEREO, AIRCON = AIRCON ......

I disagree. The climate controls and radio being together create a cleaner look for the dash. Besides, them being seperate is so mid 90s. ;)