BMW trying too hard?

[Prius]

I have kinda been thinking lately that maybe BMW is trying too hard to be number one. Their cars are great in terms of driving, but all the technology seems to water it down. Setting up a Bimmer is like setting up a PC to your preferences, it takes all day. It is like they are trying to outdo Audi and Mercedes by going overboard. Like look at the 1 series. It looks like its been through a crusher, and I have a hard time accepting the New bimmers as luxury sedans, as they don't seem to posess Luxury sedan qualities. They to me are just four wheels packed with a lot of crap. I think they would be a lot better off if they just went back to their old formula. What do you think?

[DBR9]

some people seem to say they are trying too hard, personally i don.t think they are but even if they are it seems to be working the 3 series is the best selling car in it's field and people are willing to pay several grand more for the 3 series than others, e.g Ford mondeo which surely shows the have a winning formula

[Prius]

I kinda like the new 3 series, but I dont' like what they did with the 5 series and 7 series. THey used to be regarded as high end Luxury sedans, and IMO the new ones don't have the qualities of a Luxury sedan. Luxury sedans are not just a bunch of features, they have to be stylish and well built. The Bimmer is featured packed and well built (somewhat), but the car has no style to it and is too perplexing to use, and that kills it all. I think BMW needs to inspect some Benzes, Lexuses and Audis, and take notes.

[Ferrer]

Ugliness aside I don't think there's anything wrong with regular modern BMW's. After having driven one I think they are very competent machines and a joy to drive. However I will agree that maybe BMW's is taking technology a step too far, especially with some late BMW M models or the active steering option.

[Equinox]

The same can almost said about Jag and Land Rover. They are packing too much tech into their cars and that tech isn't standing up very well.

I like BMW's. They are trying hard to put new cars on the market but I dont know if they are over doing it. BMW's competition is Mercedes-Benz and that market, so they are just trying to stretch their capabilities.

[Dino Scuderia]

BMW and Audi both have a good opportunity to gain ground on Mercedes with Merc's current poor customer satisfaction ratings.

Is BMW trying too hard? I don't think they can try 'too hard' with all the competition in their market, especially from the Japanese offerings.

[coolieman1220]

i love BMW's they have something that other cars just don't. It's like a secret recipe. idk. They do have a lot of technology and if you don't think it screams luxury well idk cause BMW has the lux name written all over it

[Ferrer]

The same can almost said about Jag and Land Rover. They are packing too much tech into their cars and that tech isn't standing up very well.
Which technology? :confused: The new Jag XK doesn't have flappy paddle semi-automatic fancy gearboxes, or active steering or anything really...

[IWantAnAudiRS6]

Which technology? :confused: The new Jag XK doesn't have flappy paddle semi-automatic fancy gearboxes, or active steering or anything really...

Yes, I raised an eyebrow at that as well!

The Land Rover does use technology, but at least it's useful for off-roading- and it has been proven in Chile by serious off-roaders.

I have yet to see BMW's ridiculous iDrive system implemented on a race track.

[Rockefella]

I have kinda been thinking lately that maybe BMW is trying too hard to be number one.
LMAO. That's supposed to be a bad thing?

Maybe they should strive to be the worst? I'm no BMW fan but the logic there is flawed.

[jediali]

This weeks autocar has something talking about a 3-series MPV
1) autocar spouting crap again?
2) Bmw (and the competition) all trying to compete on things they differ on, trying too hard

[Rockefella]

This weeks autocar has something talking about a 3-series MPV
1) autocar spouting crap again?
2) Bmw (and the competition) all trying to compete on things they differ on, trying too hard

I think you're correct with that 1st point. Autocar gets bored sometimes and makes stuff up.

[Prius]

LMAO. That's supposed to be a bad thing?

Maybe they should strive to be the worst? I'm no BMW fan but the logic there is flawed.

Well, I think they are trying too hard to position themselves ahead of Benz and Audi.

Like with the iDrive. Come on, you are gonna get pissed having to scroll through three menus to change the radio station when "Hips Don't Lie" comes on. I think BMW needs to focus its technology more towards the road, and less towards the cabin. I think they need to cut back on all the techno stuff. BMW had it right with the previous generation 5 series and the 7 series before it became all blobby. They should have taken those and ran with it, instead they threw that in the waste bin.

[Rockefella]

Well, I think they are trying too hard to position themselves ahead of Benz and Audi.

Like with the iDrive. Come on, you are gonna get pissed having to scroll through three menus to change the radio station when "Hips Don't Lie" comes on. I think BMW needs to focus its technology more towards the road, and less towards the cabin. I think they need to cut back on all the techno stuff. BMW had it right with the previous generation 5 series and the 7 series before it became all blobby. They should have taken those and ran with it, instead they threw that in the waste bin.

Well, that's true, but it's not like Mercedes and Audi (mainly Mercedes) don't have a gaggle of stupid tech in their machines that helps them sell to rich savants.

I'm pretty sure BMW learned their lesson with i-Drive though. I'm actually surprised Apple hasn't sued BMW for their use of a lowercase 'i' in i-Drive actually.

[Equinox]

Which technology? :confused: The new Jag XK doesn't have flappy paddle semi-automatic fancy gearboxes, or active steering or anything really...

Damn... Wrong make I was thinking about. I'll just dig my own hole now:(

[jediali]

I think the majority of the technology does go to the ability of the car in relation to the road. I still admire BMW for keeping the driver engaged without electronics and chassis rethinks/4wd. Sure idrive is annoying but it suits germans fine. what annoys me more is merc and audi copy with a similar layout (even if they make their MMI etc easier to use). The previous 5-series was verging on perfect. I'd love to have a late 535i. excelent car (Note the V8 engined M5 had the less tactile recirculating ball steering) - so many ask "how can bmw progress?" my answer is ugly/controversial styled cars and copy others.Maybe its the only way a small profit margin industry can sell. Mind you, Richy Hammond says that a dead cat with a bmw badge would sell.

[092326001]

BMW is trying to hard to make their cars hideous and confusing

[clutch-monkey]

and overweight :D

not a fan of the run crap tires either...

[nota]

Like with the iDrive. Come on, you are gonna get pissed having to scroll through three menus to change the radio station when "Hips Don't Lie" comes on.
Hahhaa Pruis that was very funny! Life is already too complex without having to put up with that sort of shit. Thanx for the giggle :D


I remember when I bought a '55 Beetle, handed the cash over ($125) and excitedly asked the seller to explain all the controls. He directed my attention to the barren metal dashboard and said in deadpan fashion: "Right, that's your lights, wipers and choke." That's all I got!

[Coventrysucks]

I still admire BMW for keeping the driver engaged without electronics

Where's the evidence for that?

The M5 has two tonnes of electronic equipment aboard that ensures it doesn't drive like a two tonne car; which it wouldn't if they hadn't stuck two tonnes of electronic equipment aboard...

[jediali]

Where's the evidence for that?

The M5 has two tonnes of electronic equipment aboard that ensures it doesn't drive like a two tonne car; which it wouldn't if they hadn't stuck two tonnes of electronic equipment aboard...
Hi Coventrysucks, how are you?

Okay dokey, The M5 is fairly electronic, yes but the BMW is still a dynamically sorted vehicle. The other 5-series dont need those electronics. The e-classs has etc you cant switch off. It thinks it needs to keep braking inner and outer wheels to keep the car in control. The M5 has electronics controling the engine /gearbox but you can disable any dynamic stability control, without the car turning innefective at high speed.....or so I heard. If you want evidence countless video road teasts (TG,FG,whatcar) reveal that mercedes are dynamically short of abiity compared to equivelant BMWs. Its even reflected in their desigh attitudes. Bmw will specify a mechanical differential for the Z4m and the M3 instead of just using an artificial LSD (electronics). I dont particularly like one company over the other-just saying.

Have an outsstanding day Coventrysucks. Hope its constructive and enjoyable. Bye.

[Ingolstadt]

Luxury cars used to be big, comfortable that's it.

BMW proved that luxury can be fun, sporty, personal ownership experience.

The formula BMW is trying is simple:

1. What perception do you think people would have on you seeing you driving a Rolls Royce?

2. Would you have that hesitant if you're driving around in a Bentley?

BMW successfully shrug off the image of a "Driver/Butler's luxury car" whereas many others are trying real hard to. I say Audi's the closest to BMW now as where they're trying to project themselves as.

[Prius]

Well, that's true, but it's not like Mercedes and Audi (mainly Mercedes) don't have a gaggle of stupid tech in their machines that helps them sell to rich savants.

I'm pretty sure BMW learned their lesson with i-Drive though. I'm actually surprised Apple hasn't sued BMW for their use of a lowercase 'i' in i-Drive actually.

Yeah, but at least you don't have to scroll through three menus to tune the radio. That is just rediculous and unneeded.


I think the majority of the technology does go to the ability of the car in relation to the road. I still admire BMW for keeping the driver engaged without electronics and chassis rethinks/4wd. Sure idrive is annoying but it suits germans fine. what annoys me more is merc and audi copy with a similar layout (even if they make their MMI etc easier to use). The previous 5-series was verging on perfect. I'd love to have a late 535i. excelent car (Note the V8 engined M5 had the less tactile recirculating ball steering) - so many ask "how can bmw progress?" my answer is ugly/controversial styled cars and copy others.Maybe its the only way a small profit margin industry can sell. Mind you, Richy Hammond says that a dead cat with a bmw badge would sell.

That is the way Cadillac is like over here. Everybody is convinced that Cadillacs are the best cars cruising the road. In fact, my dad hates Jeremy Clarkson and thinks he is biased because he gave the CTS-V a bad review. Whenver he watches Top Gear with me, he keeps going on about how JC is biased Euro-trash. It does get annoying. I bet I could grab a pile of my dog's shit and stick a Cadillac badge on it, sell it, and I would make millions.

[Ingolstadt]

Cadillacs used to be good luxury maker. Now they're bad BMW/Merc copiers. Oh add to the fact that rappers take em as their ultimate pimp mobiles, and Cadillac follow suit with something to suit their golden tooth tastes - Escalade.

IMO, that's the most expensive rubbish mad had ever made.

[Kooper]

I think BMW are in a bit of a crossing-over zone now. They once stated that they are definitely committed to introducing new technologies, but wouldn't introduce any technology that dilutes the pleasure of driving.

If you ask me, they've introduced quite a bit of the latter lately, which is a shame really. I do think however that they're starting to regain their focus as far as that's concerned. iDrive, for all it's inadequacies, has kicked off something of a fad with the other German manufacturers. It's got a long way to go before being able to be termed as user-friendly, intuitive and an advantage to driving ...but I think they're getting there with every new interpretation of it.
Slowly.

The run-flats are still to prove themselves, but I've heard great things of the latest iteration of it on the new 3 coupe. Apparently the suspension setup and run-flats are starting to reach something of a marriage where your teeth won't get knocked out on every bump.
In some countries where crime is also a big factor this also makes a whole lot of sense where you wouldn't have to stop to replace a tire (potentially a life-threatening thing to do in some corners of the globe). You can simply drive to the safest place (granted it has to be no more than 150km away) and have it replaced there instead.

What still fails to make sense to me personally is the active-steering. I fail to see the advantage of a system that reduces the turns lock-to-lock at low speeds and automatically adapts it again to suit higher-speeds. Why not just have two settings that the DRIVER (in uppercase since that's what BMW is supposed to focus on) can choose from? One for parking speeds where you would have, say, 2 turns lock-to-lock and another setting for normal driving...

The other thing is, of course, the styling side of things. They were apparently worried that their styling would get stuck in a rut, specifically making mention of the "same sausage, different sizes" comparison when referring to the 3, 5 and 7 Series cars.
The solution was to go controversial, and that was certainly achieved. They shook up opinion, where people either hated or kind-of accepted it.
In the process they've gained some meaningful new styling characteristics, enough to differentiate their different cars from one another.

What's needed now is for them to return to sanity. By that I mean they should keep everything that works and re-introduce everything from their past styling that works. There's more than enough there to play around with without making it look weird just for the sake of being weird.
Take the Z4 for example:
Without that awkward line from the A-pillar to the lower sills, the design already looks infinitely better. And having lines all over the car that link into each-other is a nice touch, but too much of it is, well, just too darn much!

Most important of all though, they need to shift their focus back to the DRIVER!!! That and the pleasure of driving.

[Coventrysucks]

Have an outsstanding day Coventrysucks. Hope its constructive and enjoyable. Bye.

http://smilies.vidahost.com/cwm/3dlil/eek13.gif ktxsbyenow