General Photography Competition #82

[Piacki_117]

Congratulations to Cotterik for winning Comp #81

http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=232844&d=1173360115


• The deadline is Sunday
• The photograph can contain ANY image (other than adulterous material). Automotive photography is to be entered in the appropriate competition.
• The proposed picture must be your own and not found on the net.
• The photograph must be attatched using the UCP system.
• Your image must be a resolution of 800x600 or lower. If it is not, your picture will not be in the voting thread.
• The photograph must be the original upload and not edited in any way other than to resize.
• If any editing functions are made using in-camera options (e.g sepia) please state.
• The photograph must be taken no earlier then 6 months before start date
• Each photographer cannot vote for himself, they must vote for the others.
• Any users who enter and vote for themselves automatically recieve a 2 week penalty from the competition and all votes previously given to his/her photo are removed.
• The entry must contain the following information in the same order :


User name
Subject matter
Date taken
Camera type & name



Standings 2007


Speedy_2: 2 / Merrill: 2
-
My_Porsche: 1 / Esperante: 1 / Derekthetree: 1 / Sauc3: 1 / SPHFerrari: 1 / smxi: 1 / shockwaveracing: 1 / Piacki117: 1 / Cotterik: 1

[drakkie]

Drakkie
5-3-2007
Fuji S5600
Rotterdam
Bloodbank right behind Uni.
http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=233893&stc=1&d=1173907992

[jorismo]

jorismo
My girlfriends new dog, 'Baloo'
10-03-2007
Fuji FinePix S5600

http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=233894&stc=1&d=1173908087

[Timothy (in VA)]

Timothy (in VA)
Brooks Hall
February 23, 2007
Sony DSC-S500

http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=233907&d=1173911403

[Leo_Ant]

Leo_Ant
Family Portrait
12th March
HP 850
http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=233908&stc=1&d=1173913490

[Giankrlo99]

Giankrlo99
Sanblas - Isla Aguja
4 Of March
Sony DSC32 Cyber Shot

http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=233910&stc=1&d=1173914469

[speedy_2]

speedy_2
some flowers at home
3-11-07
Canon 350D

One of my first shots with my new Sigma 17-70mm

http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=234093&stc=1&d=1173927979

[chris98891]

chris98891
Switzerland from a Gulfstream G4S
2-29-07
Nikon L1

[drakkie]

chris98891
Switzerland from a Gulfstream G4S
2-29-07
Nikon L1

Is that the Val d'Isere ?

[Cyco]

Cyco
Not even earmuffs keep some happy
Friday @ Philip Is
Camera I borrowed from Sauc3 when my batteries died

[2ndclasscitizen]

2ndclasscitizen
1-3-07
Pentax *ist DS + SMC-M 135mm f3.5

http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=234177&stc=1&d=1173956180

[john14]

john14
Phone Crazy
March 12th, 2007
Nikon Coolpix L6

http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g157/mash569/DSCN0094.jpg

[BLACK 300ZX]

Black 300ZX
Haunted Sanatory
Covilhã, Portugal
February, 2007
Canon EOS 20D / Tamron SP 28-75 f/2.8 XR DI LD / Hoya circ.polarizer filter

http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=234192&stc=1&d=1173965277&

[drakkie]

john14
Phone Crazy
March 12th, 2007
Nikon Coolpix L6



A quick tip for the next time :)

Try to avoid the use of flash. As you see it gives annoying reflections that you dont want. Also it takes away some of the colour, especially if you do portraits... Try and use a Tripod or improvise something. Think like a wall, stack of stuff etcetera. Or try to lean against something solid. In my experience the lean can be used for shutter speeds up to 1/10s.

Good luck next time !

[Pinin]

A quick tip for the next time :)

Try to avoid the use of flash. As you see it gives annoying reflections that you dont want. Also it takes away some of the colour, especially if you do portraits... Try and use a Tripod or improvise something. Think like a wall, stack of stuff etcetera. Or try to lean against something solid. In my experience the lean can be used for shutter speeds up to 1/10s.

Good luck next time !
All good advice, but he didn't use flash there. :)

[my porsche]

Yeah, if he used flash, dont you think there would actually be light on the keypads? or do you think he had some sort of off-camera flash rig set up with his P&S to the side, but not firing onto the phones?

It's obviously a desk lamp. But Drakkie, your knowledge is so far beyond us, you're probably right.

[Piacki_117]

Piacki117
Beach
France
January 2007
Sony DSC-R1
http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=234196&stc=1&d=1173977388

[Lagonda]

Ok, I'll join in once again. Not the greatest of pictures but I'm pleased with it because it took my quite some time to get a decent picture of that damn bird.

Lagonda
Woodpecker
13 March 2007
D70s, Nikkor 70-210 f4, 1/160, f9
Dual flash setup
A lot of patience

[chris98891]

Is that the Val d'Isere ?

haha i think so if thats how you spell it

[adamfraser]

AdamFraser
"Freeride"
Ayr, Scotland
Feburary 5th 2007
Olympus X-715

http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=234215&d=1173990186

[drakkie]

Yeah, if he used flash, dont you think there would actually be light on the keypads? or do you think he had some sort of off-camera flash rig set up with his P&S to the side, but not firing onto the phones?


I'm sorry. I didnt look good. Doing the night shift between school days obviously isnt too good of an idea :o

And if you look good, there are some reflections on the keypads and screens ;)



It's obviously a desk lamp. But Drakkie, your knowledge is so far beyond us, you're probably right.

I didn't claim that. I just gave him some advice to work with. I've never really seen YOU do that, unasked...

[Waugh-terfall]

John, why so many phones dude!? lol, you really should read 'Cell' by Stephen King!:)


Waugh-terfall
Swans on the pond
8-3-07
Samsung SGH-E900 2MP Cameraphone

http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=234232&stc=1&d=1173994611

[my porsche]

I didn't claim that. I just gave him some advice to work with. I've never really seen YOU do that, unasked...

No, I know you didn't, I was just stating it. :)

[Cotterik]

thanks for the votes guys. I'm gonna enter an original RAW shot, 1 of 5 working portraits for my A-Level art photography project. Pre-processing. (if there is anything I've missed, point it out to me, theres lots of versions of the photo lying around) The rest are heavily edited. I havent had time to take photos of anything else lately! Once theyre done ill start a thread to show them =]

Cotterik
Zoe
Sir John Deane's College
12th March
Nikon D80

http://ultimatecarpage.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=234243&d=1174006374

[Sauc3]

Sauc3
The Key Note
3 days ago
Konica Minolta Dynax 7D

http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=234241&stc=1&d=1174005886

[Lagonda]

thanks for the votes guys. I'm gonna enter an original RAW shot, 1 of 5 working portraits for my A-Level art photography project. Pre-processing. (if there is anything I've missed, point it out to me, theres lots of versions of the photo lying around) The rest are heavily edited. I havent had time to take photos of anything else lately! Once theyre done ill start a thread to show them =]

Cotterik
Zoe
Sir John Deane's College
12th March
Nikon D80

http://ultimatecarpage.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=234243&d=1174006374

That pic is cropped mate. Only rersize is allowed afaik.

[2ndclasscitizen]

I've entered heaps of cropped photos before

[jorismo]

What's wrong with cropping? It's not such a major adjustment, who cares?

[Cyco]

My entry this week is cropped - as I think is every entry I've ever made in a UCP comp (not that its many).

[Sauc3]

That pic is cropped mate. Only rersize is allowed afaik.
Effectively cropping is re-sizing. When you crop, you make a picture smaller. When you re-size, you make a picture smaller. No problem. ;)

[SPHFerrari]

cropping is definately allowed.

why are people always trying to limit what we can do? i understand the intention but it doesnt make sense.

does anyone else think that anything that can be done in-camera should be allowed? this means contrast, saturation, whitebalance, can be adjusted. i can set a custom picture style on my camera that takes a picture with extremely high contrast and saturation and many other things, but i would rather not bind myself into something before i see what i have to work with. the point should just be that you cant add stuff to the picture that isnt there.

[The_Canuck]

cropping is definately allowed.

why are people always trying to limit what we can do? i understand the intention but it doesnt make sense.

does anyone else think that anything that can be done in-camera should be allowed? this means contrast, saturation, whitebalance, can be adjusted. i can set a custom picture style on my camera that takes a picture with extremely high contrast and saturation and many other things, but i would rather not bind myself into something before i see what i have to work with. the point should just be that you cant add stuff to the picture that isnt there.

I think anything done in camera is fine. It's the use of photoshop and other programs that are a problem. However I don't think anyone here has used photoshop in a competition...

[Cotterik]

i think theres an 'effective' line where photoshop gives an advantage but for example with my new fantasy portraits on my flickr gallery, thats pretty obvious that its been heavily edited, but for original photography i dont think that photoshop should be frowned at. its an integral part of modern photography and i feel that sometimes this competition is lowered to an amateur level just to allow inexperienced photographers to enter. OK thats fair enough, but then again it lowers the standard. A neverending debate.

[my porsche]

This debate never ends. IMO the only things that should be allowed are cropping, contrast/saturation/B&W conversion.

[SPHFerrari]

I think anything done in camera is fine. It's the use of photoshop and other programs that are a problem. However I don't think anyone here has used photoshop in a competition...

yes anything that is done in camera is already allowed, i think all these features should be allowed to be applied in photoshop too. and yes, people entering the competitions have used photoshop on their pictures, no question.


This debate never ends. IMO the only things that should be allowed are cropping, contrast/saturation/B&W conversion.
thats a start, can we make this the new rule? i think exposure tweaks too but im fine with just cropping contrast/sat and b/w conversions.

[Piacki_117]

thats a start, can we make this the new rule? i think exposure tweaks too but im fine with just cropping contrast/sat and b/w conversions.


Why not...

[derekthetree]

i think theres an 'effective' line where photoshop gives an advantage but for example with my new fantasy portraits on my flickr gallery, thats pretty obvious that its been heavily edited, but for original photography i dont think that photoshop should be frowned at. its an integral part of modern photography and i feel that sometimes this competition is lowered to an amateur level just to allow inexperienced photographers to enter. OK thats fair enough, but then again it lowers the standard. A neverending debate.

this problem is easily solved. run another competition where any editing is allowed.

I seem to remember this has been tried before and died a quick death due to lack of interest, which maybe shows what most people think about it...

[Pinin]

this problem is easily solved. run another competition where any editing is allowed.

I seem to remember this has been tried before and died a quick death due to lack of interest, which maybe shows what most people think about it...
It only shows that people can't be bothered wasting time with several competitions for pretty much the same thing.

[my porsche]

Why not...

So is that a yes? :)

[Piacki_117]

So is that a yes? :)

Yes. You compose the rule and I add it next week.

[SPHFerrari]

how bout

"editing is allowed provided it does not add/subtract important pieces of the picture. this includes but is not limited to adjusting exposure, saturation and contrast, cropping, white balance adjustment, and dust spot removal. photoshop effects that are totally computer generated are not allowed."

[Cotterik]

sounds good to me.

[Pinin]

how about dodge/burn, too? ;)

[SPHFerrari]

"editing is allowed provided it does not add/subtract important pieces of the picture. this includes but is not limited to adjusting exposure, saturation and contrast, cropping, white balance adjustment, dodging and burning and dust spot removal. photoshop effects that are totally computer generated are not allowed."

:)

[my porsche]

For both auto and general?

"The only editing allowed for any photos entered in the Automotive or General photography competition will be mild adjustments in Contrast, Saturation, Cropping and Black & White conversions through any method."

[my porsche]

No dodge/burn, exposure or dust spot cloning. If those are allowed it opens up a whole new door, as things like contrast/saturation must be done to the whole picture, and are readily visible. wheras cloning, dodge/burn, WB adjustments, and exposure can turn a absolute shit picture into a decent shot.

IMHO, of course.

[Sauc3]

No dodge/burn, exposure or dust spot cloning. If those are allowed it opens up a whole new door, as things like contrast/saturation must be done to the whole picture, and are readily visible. wheras cloning, dodge/burn, WB adjustments, and exposure can turn a absolute shit picture into a decent shot.

IMHO, of course.
I think that dust spot cloning should be allowed, because for most people I imagine it's out of their control. Even for myself, having a sensor cleaning kit, I still get dust spots.
I agree with everything else.

[Pinin]

No dodge/burn, exposure or dust spot cloning. If those are allowed it opens up a whole new door, as things like contrast/saturation must be done to the whole picture, and are readily visible. wheras cloning, dodge/burn, WB adjustments, and exposure can turn a absolute shit picture into a decent shot.

IMHO, of course.
An absolute shit picture will always be that, no matter how much you photoshop it.

Why no dodge/burn? It's a common darkroom technique..

[my porsche]

I think that dust spot cloning should be allowed, because for most people I imagine it's out of their control. Even for myself, having a sensor cleaning kit, I still get dust spots.
I agree with everything else.

Eh, if you must, just do it and don't mention it. BTW, dunno if you use it or not already but the healing brush tool does an excellent job v. the clone brush.

I know dodging/burning is a common dark room technique, but have you ever seen someone actually do it in a darkroom? Much more can be done with photoshop's dodge/burn.

I guess it could be allowed, though. I like the effects it gives to skies.

So i guess pretty much anything that can be done in a conventional darkroom is allowed?

[Sledgehammer]

Sledgehammer
3/16/07
Face
Nikon
http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p197/Sledgehammer_Vet/Statue-1.jpg

[SPHFerrari]

I know dodging/burning is a common dark room technique, but have you ever seen someone actually do it in a darkroom? Much more can be done with photoshop's dodge/burn.

Yes, I have done it personally many many times. And, actually, less can be done with photoshop's dodge/burn than in a darkroom. Film picks up far more dynamic range than digital sensors, thus you can bring out more detail from shadows and highlights than you can with a digital file.

removing dust spots, dodging and burning, exposure adjustments, and white balance adjustment, cannot turn a shit picture into a decent one. it CAN however help you realize your vision and make the most out of your equipment. photography is an art, using a camera is a technical skill. which one are we testing? if you can show me a shit picture you turned into something magical i would love to see it.

[my porsche]

Ok I give in, let's do dodging and burning. :)

[IBrake4Rainbows]

IBrake4Rainbows
"Structural Hierarchy of Platonic Solids....otherwise known as buldings"
09/03/07
Fuji Finepix F5600
Melbourne.

http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=234543&stc=1&d=1174194058

[Piacki_117]

No dodge/burn, exposure or dust spot cloning. If those are allowed it opens up a whole new door, as things like contrast/saturation must be done to the whole picture, and are readily visible. wheras cloning, dodge/burn, WB adjustments, and exposure can turn a absolute shit picture into a decent shot.

IMHO, of course.

I totally agree with you.

[my porsche]

well you run the competition, what's your thought on how the rule should look?

[Piacki_117]

I think the new rule is gonna look like this one :


"The only editing allowed for any photos entered in the Automotive or General photography competition will be mild adjustments in Contrast, Saturation, Cropping and Black & White conversions through any method"

[SPHFerrari]

thats fine with me

[my porsche]

Sweet. Let's do it.

Speaking of that. SPH you have any B&W methods better than channel mixer?

[Sledgehammer]

I think the new rule is gonna look like this one :


"The only editing allowed for any photos entered in the Automotive or General photography competition will be mild adjustments in Contrast, Saturation, Cropping and Black & White conversions through any method"

Well their goes any chance that I have at getting some votes as I know diddly squat about photo editing.

[Piacki_117]

Well their goes any chance that I have at getting some votes as I know diddly squat about photo editing.


Learn. People with P&S cameras could say the same thing about DSLRs owners.

[drakkie]

Learn. People with P&S cameras could say the same thing about DSLRs owners.

How will he learn if noone teaches it him ? :)

These rules will create a big gap between the people that are good in Photoshop and those that are not I think... The way it is is fine enough for me ! I still have the same views on it as when i created comp #1 !

[Sledgehammer]

Learn. People with P&S cameras could say the same thing about DSLRs owners.

Ok, lets start the schooling. What is P&S and DSLR?

[Piacki_117]

P&S
http://www.shutterphoto.com/review/canon/A95/canon_a95.gif


DSLR
http://images.tomshardware.com/2005/10/11/canon_5d_front.jpg

[The_Canuck]

I'm assuming P&S is Point and Shoot?

[Cotterik]

yep. basically P+S is exactly what it says on the tin. quick shots, easy to use. not much in terms of manual use. No real point in there being any more than 5mp because its basically used for family use, or quick shots. So your rarely going to be printing large scale prints from a P+S.

DSLR, in short, is a manual camera, you can adjust and determine every aspect of the shot before you take it, and select any type of lens you want in order to gain different types of shots. Higher MP if you want larger prints, mostly used by people in the industry. Mid-range DSLRs are for enthusiasts, and entry level DSLRs are for people who find P+S cameras restrictive, but dont want the full responsibility of a real DSLR. The same goes for Prosumer cameras. A fast growing category of cameras because they appeal to enthusiast photographers who like to have creative control of their camera's settings, but save money at the same time. The downside is that you cannot change the lens.

[The_Canuck]

The same goes for Prosumer cameras. A fast growing category of cameras because they appeal to enthusiast photographers who like to have creative control of their camera's settings, but save money at the same time. The downside is that you cannot change the lens.

Hmm like mine, pretty damn good camera for the price :D

Maybe I'll get a DSLR eventually.

[my porsche]

Another downside to prosumer and consumer cameras is the ridiculous amounts of noise.

[2ndclasscitizen]

yep. basically P+S is exactly what it says on the tin. quick shots, easy to use. not much in terms of manual use. No real point in there being any more than 5mp because its basically used for family use, or quick shots. So your rarely going to be printing large scale prints from a P+S. Many P&S cameras have manual control, and 5mp is more than enough for an A4 sized print. The reason you wouldn't want more than 5mp in a P&S is because the sensors are so small that the image quality suffers and you can't use high ISO.


DSLR, in short, is a manual camera, you can adjust and determine every aspect of the shot before you take it, and select any type of lens you want in order to gain different types of shots. Higher MP if you want larger prints, mostly used by people in the industry.
An SLR is not a manual camera, it is a Single Lens Reflex camera
, meaning that is 1 lens, and a reflex mirror, meaning the mirror that reflects the image into the viewfinder automatically moves up when you take a shot and returns afterwards, the D in DSLR merely standing for Digital.


Mid-range DSLRs are for enthusiasts, and entry level DSLRs are for people who find P+S cameras restrictive, but dont want the full responsibility of a real DSLR.What is a "real" DSLR? What "responsibility" does a 1DsmkII carry over say a D50?

[Cotterik]

why turn this into an argument..pfft..you forget that I am trying to explain it to somebody that doesnt know anything about photography. Im not trying give every real and true definition with precise detail. I'm translating it.


Many P&S cameras have manual control, and 5mp is more than enough for an A4 sized print. The reason you wouldn't want more than 5mp in a P&S is because the sensors are so small that the image quality suffers and you can't use high ISO.

Ofcourse P+S have manual control. But its very minimal, P+S cameras are made to 'P+S'. Yes i know about the sensor but that is completely off subject here. If you want bigger prints, you buy a more capable camera. Not a P+S.


An SLR is not a manual camera, it is a Single Lens Reflex camera
, meaning that is 1 lens, and a reflex mirror, meaning the mirror that reflects the image into the viewfinder automatically moves up when you take a shot and returns afterwards, the D in DSLR merely standing for Digital.

Again, you act like I dont know this. I've been using Slrs for over 5 years now. Look up the term 'manual'. A manual object or device is something that you yourself control. This is the difference between an slr and a P+S. With an slr you have full control over the camera. If you want to. With a P+S you can never have full manual control. Again I dont need to explain this to you as you did not need to explain this to me, however considering who I am explaining this too, its a little different.


What is a "real" DSLR? What "responsibility" does a 1DsmkII carry over say a D50?

Thats quite obvious. Features. What you pay for. Look them up. a 1DsmkII gives you considerably higher levels of features than lower-level DSLRs.
When i quoted 'real' slr, admittely i shouldve reworded, however that really doesnt matter here. Sledgehammer would know what I meant by that. Im not trying to explain the world of photography to Kimura Takuya here. Nor am i trying to prove my knowledge of photography. I spelt it out for him. Understand that.

[SPHFerrari]

Speaking of that. SPH you have any B&W methods better than channel mixer?
nope, channel mixer is what I use. CS3 aparently has a pretty nifty b/w converter that makes it a lot more simple, but im not planning to upgrade any time soon.


What is a "real" DSLR? What "responsibility" does a 1DsmkII carry over say a D50?

no automatic settings, for starters. large size and weight and expense for a few more.

cotterik knows his shit, and was trying to explain in layman's terms. its not important to a beginner what the letters D S L and R stand for, but what it means in terms of taking a picture.

im glad you added some more important information, thats all well and good, but try not to do it so rudely.



as far as people who know how to use photoshop gaining an unfair advantage, I maintain that photoshop doesnt produce winning photographs. that is the reward for appealing composition and moving subject matter, not technical prowess.

[2ndclasscitizen]

why turn this into an argument..pfft..you forget that I am trying to explain it to somebody that doesnt know anything about photography. Im not trying give every real and true definition with precise detail. I'm translating it.I'm not trying to turn it into a an argument, I'm giving facts.


Again, you act like I dont know this. I've been using Slrs for over 5 years now. Look up the term 'manual'. A manual object or device is something that you yourself control. This is the difference between an slr and a P+S. With an slr you have full control over the camera. If you want to. With a P+S you can never have full manual control. Again I dont need to explain this to you as you did not need to explain this to me, however considering who I am explaining this too, its a little different.

Manual control is manual control. There's plenty of P&S cameras with full manual exposure control and manual focus. The only thing they lack is manual zoom, I can't think off the top of my head of any P&S cameras with manual zoom control on the lens.

In general terms of actually taking a photo there's really little difference between a good quality high end P&S type camera and a DSLR. All you'll have to do without is, as i said, higher ISO, manual zoom control on the lens, less shutter lag and better flash capabilities. After that, you won't have as good a quality image file as from a DSLR. The advantages of an SLR over a P&S camera are manual zoom, an optical viewfinder, faster frame rate and bigger, faster buffer (on digital,) faster autofocus and better flash capability. The better the SLR, the better these features are. For example, my Pentax *ist DS will only shoot 2.5fps for 5 frames, while a 1D mk2N will shoot at like 8fps for ~20 frames IIRC.

[The_Canuck]

Another downside to prosumer and consumer cameras is the ridiculous amounts of noise.

So far mine is fine, bit of trouble with one colour accent shot I did, but I suck at photography so the noise was probably caused by the wrong settings.:p

[drakkie]

So far mine is fine, bit of trouble with one colour accent shot I did, but I suck at photography so the noise was probably caused by the wrong settings.:p

I own a Fuji S5600 and with the right settings you can take noise free pictures.

I have fixed the ISO at 64 and rarely need to change it. Programme's like Noise Ninja help a lot too if you exceeded the ISO400...

Try and go back there and change your settings. Play around a bit with them and see for yourself what the result is.

[2ndclasscitizen]

Ok, lets start the schooling. What is P&S and DSLR?

This page will help a lot, just remembered it: http://www.dpreview.com/learn/?/Glossary/

[john14]

Originally Posted by Waugh-terfall
John, why so many phones dude!? lol, you really should read 'Cell' by Stephen King!


Waugh, I collect mobile/cell phones. :) What happens in "Cell" by Stephen King?