'08 Shelby Mustang GT500KR

[BMW325]

http://www.stangsunleashed.com/index.php?categoryid=33&p2_articleid=173

[BMW325]

pic...

[Equinox]

Happy anniversary Shelby Cobra GT500KR.

Looks like a nice car. And it's got the performance to back it up!

[digitalcraft]

Methinks Ford is going overboard a bit with all the special edition mustangs. There's like 20 now!

[IWantAnAudiRS6]

Don't get me wrong, but isn't that a Ford GT engine in a more practical, cheaper bodyshell...? :D

Nice one, Ford. I do actually like it. :o

However, I prefer the original for now. :cool:

[Turbo.Jenkens]

Don't get me wrong, but isn't that a Ford GT engine in a more practical, cheaper bodyshell...? :D
:


The GT 500 uses the cast iron block from the F-150 to save cost and help achieve its incredible 2 ton curb weight.:rolleyes: Vs the GT's Aluminum block.:)

Other than that I'm pretty sure the heads and supercharger are the same.

[bmwpower]

Have to agree with digital..too many packages..which i believe will decrease the future value of most models..

[Juggs]

hmm i think its ugly. and its going to be a pig just like the regular gt500 too. cool ass cars and all but man...it coulda been so much better!

[NSXType-R]

Ancient technology (solid rear axle) with modern technology does not mix, unless you like the ancient technology kind. ;)

[Vindesh17]

I love the way this looks, might be a bit too ricey but I still like it.

[fisetdavid26]

I like it. Red with white stripes would look better however.

[Ferrer]

Cheap-ish rear driven power is always good. :)

[rev440]

The GT 500 uses the cast iron block from the F-150 to save cost and help achieve its incredible 2 ton curb weight.:rolleyes: Vs the GT's Aluminum block.:)

Other than that I'm pretty sure the heads and supercharger are the same.

The engines arent even close to being the same. Different rods, the blower is not a twin screw, and the pistons are different as well im pretty sure. The FGT engine is capable of over 1100rwhp on STOCK everything!

PS The GT500 has a solid axle to cut costs. Alot of previous generation cobras had the IRS swapped out for a solid as well.

[F1_Master]

Not impressed.

I don't expect it to perform any better than a GT500 either, and to weigh just as much.

[carsnut]

I would like to see this Mustang go into production. Looks pretty close to the original. Do anyone of you reckon this can beat the Roush Stage 3 Mustang?

[Egg Nog]

I would like to see this Mustang go into production. Looks pretty close to the original. Do anyone of you reckon this can beat the Roush Stage 3 Mustang?

No worries about it making production... they've already said they're going to make 1000 of them :)

[Pando]

Cheap-ish rear driven power is always good. :)
Although I do agree with your point and overall like the current Mustangs, but did we really need another special edition?

[kingofthering]

They should produce a GT-390 and a remake of Bullitt.

[Mr.Tiv]

Although I do agree with your point and overall like the current Mustangs, but did we really need another special edition?

No, but I am willing to bet that there are people who want it.

[Timothy (in VA)]

Although I do agree with your point and overall like the current Mustangs, but did we really need another special edition?

Maybe we don't, but Ford does. Consider their current financial state. Meanwhile, the Mustang is both successful and profitable. Why wouldn't they milk it for all it's worth?

It's fine by me; I like this one.

[Pando]

Why wouldn't they milk it for all it's worth?Trying to milk all their products for more they were worth is what lead the American auto manufacturers to trouble in the first place. Even if they are in financial trouble (to say the least) ruthless "over milking" is quite short sighted. A successful business needs to move forward before the customers asks them to.

But on the other hand like Mr Tiv pointed out - as long as there is a market for it...

[MRR]

The GT 500 uses the cast iron block from the F-150 to save cost and help achieve its incredible 2 ton curb weight.:rolleyes: Vs the GT's Aluminum block.:)

Other than that I'm pretty sure the heads and supercharger are the same.

And they still haven't given it independent rear suspension instead of a live axle.

[Quiggs]

That's one sexy antenna.

[Juggs]

And they still haven't given it independent rear suspension instead of a live axle.

psh, honestly i am tired of hearing this from you guys on this forum. who gives a crap if it has IRS or not. that would just be adding even more weight to an already pig of a car. for having a solid axle the car handles and rides excellently. plus it doesn't have any wheel hop like the crappy IRS cars have. hell this car comes stock with a panhard bar and a tri-link which is a great setup on a solid axle car. thats pretty much a road race set up right there. look up the ford FR500 race car in the ford racing catalouge. its an EXTREMELY competitve turn key road race car, and i dont hear anybody complaining about a lack of IRS on that.

people who bash on the shelby for not having IRS: STFU idiots. theres plenty of other reasons to bash this car. IRS is not one of them.

[Quiggs]

You know how many drag racers they'd piss off by putting IRS on the Mustang?

[nota]

psh, honestly i am tired of hearing this from you guys on this forum. who gives a crap if it has IRS or not. that would just be adding even more weight to an already pig of a car. for having a solid axle the car handles and rides excellently. plus it doesn't have any wheel hop like the crappy IRS cars have. hell this car comes stock with a panhard bar and a tri-link which is a great setup on a solid axle car. thats pretty much a road race set up right there. look up the ford FR500 race car in the ford racing catalouge. its an EXTREMELY competitve turn key road race car, and i dont hear anybody complaining about a lack of IRS on that.

people who bash on the shelby for not having IRS: STFU idiots. theres plenty of other reasons to bash this car. IRS is not one of them.
Yes its a repost but I still get a laugh out of this GT500 video review, and despite it having a "road race set up right there" which supposedly "doesn't have any wheel hop" well guess what? .. You can clearly see & hear the wheel hop

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kGd1UBUDvZY

No wheel hop from this IRS Monaro

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LkD-bxhxUDc

[jcp123]

Yuck. Still a rape of the original design. Would only take it if it came with $1mln in a suitcase in the trunk. And even then I'd sell it after I got my million bucks :D

When they surveyed Mustang owners designing the new car, one of the most contentious questions was whether or not they should do a live axle. As almost all Mustangs are used as drag racers and owners' previous experience with IRS Mustangs was that they have wheel hop on hard launches, it was a simple decision for Ford to put the live axle back in. It's strong, cheap, gets the job done, and doesn't have the wheel hop. In fact, many Cobra owners swap a live axle INTO their cars for this very reason.

[rev440]

Yes its a repost but I still get a laugh out of this GT500 video review, and despite it having a "road race set up right there" which supposedly "doesn't have any wheel hop" well guess what? .. You can clearly see & hear the wheel hop

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kGd1UBUDvZY

No wheel hop from this IRS Monaro

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LkD-bxhxUDc

You base top gear for your knowladge? Come on! GTO's are known for their wheelhop hell vipers have wheelhope.

[nota]

You base top gear for your knowladge? Come on! GTO's are known for their wheelhop hell vipers have wheelhope.
Evidently high-tech GT500s with the live-axle "road race set up" also suffer from axle hop(e) [sic]. As in no-hope :D

Ignore the TG commentary by all means, but unless you're blind and deaf you CAN see & hear it in the video

[Juggs]

basing your assumptions on what top gear says about the car just shows how utterly foolish you are. that show (and especially that IDIOT jeremy clarkson) is so full of crap and stupid bashing of america and its products. lets point out some "facts" from this "review" that are completely false.

"Suspension and brakes are left stock" oh really!? im pretty sure the GT500 comes with giant 4 piston brembo brakes with 14 inch rotors.

they say it doesnt have an LSD, thats completley false as well. even the v6 comes stock with a limited slip diff.

they say its only good for going fast in a straight line and looking good despite the fact it went around their track faster than:

Aston Martin DB7 GT
Audi S4
Porsche 911 Turbo
Vauxhall VX220 turbo
New Audi TT
Honda NSX Type R
BMW M3
Nissan 350Z
Noble M12 GTO
Mercedes SL 55 AMG
Ferrari 575M
Lotus Elise
Aston Martin Vanquish

Among others.

also here is another comment i copied and pasted from another website about the review:

Someone help us understand what's going on here. In the latest episode of Top Gear, Richard Hammon revisits the Ford Shelby GT500 that the British motoring show tested late last year. For comparison's sake, Hammond brings along his own classic Shelby GT390. We're used to Top Gear bashing our U.S. ware at every opportunity, and the GT500 again takes a licking for having a suspension that can't handle the car's power. But when Hammond wheels out a portable chassis dyno to accurately measure the GT500's horsepower, he seems surprised to learn that the car produces 447 horsepower. Of course, that's 447 wheel horsepower, meaning the horsepower is being measured at the wheel where parasitic drivetrain losses are in effect and reduce the manufacturer's flywheel horsepower rating a good 10 to 20%. In fact, if you factor in a 10% drivetrain loss on Ford's flywheel horsepower rating of 500, you get 450 wheel horsepower, which is pretty darn close to the 447 achieved by Hammond's "rolling road". For some inexplicable reason, however, Hammond and his comparitavely giant co-host, Jeremy Clarkson, ding the GT500 for producing 53 less horsepower than advertised. Huh?

so screw that review and screw top gear. look at some of their other reviews of american cars too. the z06 review? complete garbage.

did you see the one were they raced a mustang around a track vs a real horse? how ridiculous was that? they say its a GT V8 when its clearly a v6, then the car is driven horribly on purpose and somehow does end up losing to the horse, how convenient. give me a break


as for the monaro not having any wheel hop, i call BS, i have seen it with my own eyes multiple times (granted it was a GTO here).
everybody knows IRS wheel hops like a mofo unless you do some serious work and even then its not as good as a solid axle.

[2ndclasscitizen]

basing your assumptions on what top gear says about the car just shows how utterly foolish you are. that show (and especially that IDIOT jeremy clarkson) is so full of crap and stupid bashing of america and its products. lets point out some "facts" from this "review" that are completely false.


Evidently high-tech GT500s with the live-axle "road race set up" also suffer from axle hop(e) [sic]. As in no-hope :D

Ignore the TG commentary by all means, but unless you're blind and deaf you CAN see & hear it in the video



they say its only good for going fast in a straight line and looking good despite the fact it went around their track faster than:

Aston Martin DB7 GT
Audi S4
Porsche 911 Turbo
Vauxhall VX220 turbo
New Audi TT
Honda NSX Type R
BMW M3
Nissan 350Z
Noble M12 GTO
Mercedes SL 55 AMG
Ferrari 575M
Lotus Elise
Aston Martin Vanquish
Quite a few of those laps where done in the rain or when they used to deliberately wet the track and by the old Stig. Top Gear rarely noted on the old board when times were run in full rain, and also the new Stig is quite a lot faster.

Oh, and how do you explain the less powerful Roush being faster than a GT500?



also here is another comment i copied and pasted from another website about the review:




Someone help us understand what's going on here. In the latest episode of Top Gear, Richard Hammon revisits the Ford Shelby GT500 that the British motoring show tested late last year. For comparison's sake, Hammond brings along his own classic Shelby GT390. We're used to Top Gear bashing our U.S. ware at every opportunity, and the GT500 again takes a licking for having a suspension that can't handle the car's power. But when Hammond wheels out a portable chassis dyno to accurately measure the GT500's horsepower, he seems surprised to learn that the car produces 447 horsepower. Of course, that's 447 wheel horsepower, meaning the horsepower is being measured at the wheel where parasitic drivetrain losses are in effect and reduce the manufacturer's flywheel horsepower rating a good 10 to 20%. In fact, if you factor in a 10% drivetrain loss on Ford's flywheel horsepower rating of 500, you get 450 wheel horsepower, which is pretty darn close to the 447 achieved by Hammond's "rolling road". For some inexplicable reason, however, Hammond and his comparitavely giant co-host, Jeremy Clarkson, ding the GT500 for producing 53 less horsepower than advertised. Huh?

In an earlier episode where they used that same dyno to measure the power of their 10 grand supercars, James explained it's operation, which included pointing out that (and I quote) "By letting it run down they can convert the mechanical drag into the extra horsepower at the flywheel"


so screw that review and screw top gear. look at some of their other reviews of american cars too. the z06 review? complete garbage. You mean the one where JC really liked the Z06? Said it was great around a track? That review?

did you see the one were they raced a mustang around a track vs a real horse? how ridiculous was that? they say its a GT V8 when its clearly a v6, then the car is driven horribly on purpose and somehow does end up losing to the horse, how convenient. give me a break



as for the monaro not having any wheel hop, i call BS, i have seen it with my own eyes multiple times (granted it was a GTO here).
everybody knows IRS wheel hops like a mofo unless you do some serious work and even then its not as good as a solid axle.Point out to me in this thread where someone said the Monaro/GTO didn't suffer wheel hop.

[Juggs]

Quite a few of those laps where done in the rain or when they used to deliberately wet the track and by the old Stig. Top Gear rarely noted on the old board when times were run in full rain, and also the new Stig is quite a lot faster.

Oh, and how do you explain the less powerful Roush being faster than a GT500?

I'm sorry I don't know what a Stig is. Please explain. As for lap times being set in the rain, we don't know what cars did and what cars didn't get tested in the rain, I'm sure not every single one of those tests were in the rain however, so AT THE VERY least it still outran many of your beloved non american cars. Any excuse to try and knock an american car down however, maybe you should go work for top gear too.

I explain the Roush being faster than the GT500, because Jack Roush builds awesome cars. The roush editions are far lighter, and not a whole lot less powerful, with a lot more attention to handling mods than the shelby. Personally I would buy a new Roush over a GT500 anyday.


In an earlier episode where they used that same dyno to measure the power of their 10 grand supercars, James explained it's operation, which included pointing out that (and I quote) "By letting it run down they can convert the mechanical drag into the extra horsepower at the flywheel"

OK, so why didn't they say that for the Shelby, instead of calling Ford liars? They dyno'd the car, got the rear wheel horsepower reading and called Ford liars because it made less rear wheel horsepower than what it is advertised with. Instead of doing the simple calculation to turn RWHP into BHP they just go and call Ford liars because they advertise the flywheel horsepower of their car (as do most manufacturers). I don't get what you are trying to argue here, if anything you helped my case.

I have dyno'd MANY cars personally. It's not hard to get the numbers to look the way you want them to, but top gear didn't even do this, they just flat out lied about this. I can't believe their viewers actually fell for that one.



You mean the one where JC really liked the Z06? Said it was great around a track? That review?

Yeah thats the one! Your right he raved about how wonderful it was as he zoomed around the track. But you must have missed the end, where he went back and contradicted his own review, and talked about how the whole car was "absolute rubbish" anywhere but the track and that he would rather drive (well the particular model escapes me at the moment but it is something far less civilized than the corvette) any day. He goes on to create a list of complaints that are completely exaggerated if not completely false about the car as well. Theres no doubt the Z06 is a great track performer as Jeremey said, BUT I gaurentee you would you be nothing short of impressed with the drivability on the street. You could drive that car every day in any kind of traffic and be totally comfortable. Jeremey says its impossible to drive on the street. Yeah right, WRONG.

I also think he says somewhere that the car is too powerful to drive on the street. That has to take top honors as the most idiodic thing I have heard in a long long time.




Point out to me in this thread where someone said the Monaro/GTO didn't suffer wheel hop.




No wheel hop from this IRS Monaro


It came up when we were talking about IRS causing wheel hop. IT DOES.


The whole point I am trying to make is IRS wouldn't have helped the Shelby. If anything it probably would have hurt it. Quit Talking in generalizations. Things like "IRS is better than straight axle no matter what", is one I see on here every single day almost and said by people who don't even know the first thing about making a car handle well.

Oh yeah and I guess my other point I have to make now is Top Gear sucks and people who live and die by their words need to get a life and get out in the real world and actually drive and (more importantly) do some actual work to a real car so maybe you can have a better understanding about the way things really work. Top Gear is full of crap and thats all there is to it, which really is a shame because they have some great cinematography and editing and whatnot on that show, its just too bad ass heads like Clarkson have to ruin it.

[IWantAnAudiRS6]

I'm sorry I don't know what a Stig is.
The Stig is Top Gear's racing driver- apparently a guy called Ben Collins.


Jeremey says its impossible to drive on the street. Yeah right, WRONG.

I also think he says somewhere that the car is too powerful to drive on the street. That has to take top honors as the most idiodic thing I have heard in a long long time.

I'd agree with him. From personal experience, cars with huge engines and cams end up with nasty street characteristics- if you keep Eleanor over 2,000rpm she's happy, but she's jerky and vicious at traffic speeds. That's a 7.9 V8.

[nota]

Quit Talking in generalizations.


It came up when we were talking about IRS causing wheel hop. IT DOES.

plus it doesn't have any wheel hop like the crappy IRS cars have.

everybody knows IRS wheel hops like a mofo unless you do some serious work and even then its not as good as a solid axle.
Who is the one generalising here? :rolleyes:

You come up with an absurd statement that GT500 "doesn't have any wheel hop" but cars equipped with IRS do

I respond by SHOWING you a video of a GT500 that IS getting wheel hop. And to further show up your silly generalisations I threw in another vid of an (admittedly modified) IRS Monaro that seems to exhibit NO wheel hop whatsoever

Naturally this proves too much for your live-axle brain so you descend into a totally irrelevant anti-Clarkson diatribe while effortlessly ignoring what is before YOUR very eyes, which is ..

live-axle vehicle A with patter, dance, hop etc
IRS vehicle B without any of the above

Forget Clarkson - why is this so hard for you to see what is before YOUR OWN eyes? And to comprehend for YOUR self what is depicted in front of you? :confused:

No I am not claiming that one system completely eliminates wheel hop, while the other always mandates it (unlike you repeatedly have) because that would be stupid wouldn't it? Ignorant too - an ignorant stupid generalisation

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hmY_rSDIGuI

Here above is another vid (picked at random). See any "crappy IRS" wheel hop from this regular GTO? Any evidence of it displayed in those long burnout tracks? How can this be! The on-road dynamic benefits of IRS but with no traction hystronics at all? :eek:


hell this car comes stock with a panhard bar and a tri-link which is a great setup on a solid axle car. thats pretty much a road race set up right there.
Still laughing at this one - pretty much the same "road race set up" as Nissan Patrol 4WD Cab-Chassis truck LOL :D :D :D

[jcp123]

Regardless, live axle is what the fan base wanted, live axle is what the fan base got.

Shouldn't we be applauding a company the size of Ford listening to the core audience of one of its models rather than fighting over the theoretical advantages or lack thereof of one system or another?

[2ndclasscitizen]

I'm sorry I don't know what a Stig is. Please explain. As for lap times being set in the rain, we don't know what cars did and what cars didn't get tested in the rain, I'm sure not every single one of those tests were in the rain however, so AT THE VERY least it still outran many of your beloved non american cars. Any excuse to try and knock an american car down however, maybe you should go work for top gear too.
I DO know what cars ran in the rain or on the old system where they went out and deliberately wet the track, I have the vids on PC.


OK, so why didn't they say that for the Shelby, instead of calling Ford liars?
Maybe because they don't feel the need to repeat themselves over and over again.


Yeah thats the one! Your right he raved about how wonderful it was as he zoomed around the track. But you must have missed the end, where he went back and contradicted his own review, and talked about how the whole car was "absolute rubbish" anywhere but the trackand that he would rather drive (well the particular model escapes me at the moment but it is something far less civilized than the corvette) any day. He actually said for the real world he'd rather the normal Corvette. Or bird flu.


He goes on to create a list of complaints that are completely exaggerated if not completely false about the car as well. Theres no doubt the Z06 is a great track performer as Jeremey said, BUT I gaurentee you would you be nothing short of impressed with the drivability on the street. You could drive that car every day in any kind of traffic and be totally comfortable. Jeremey says its impossible to drive on the street. Yeah right, WRONG.He didn't like the amount of driveline shunt, the radio's rubbish (admittedly not that important) the tyre roar, too wide (wouldn't be an issue in the US, elsewhere more so) trim is woeful, ride is horrible, gearbox feels like it came from a tractor.


I also think he says somewhere that the car is too powerful to drive on the street. That has to take top honors as the most idiodic thing I have heard in a long long time. Oh my God, someone thinks are a car is too powerful!!! :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:



Oh yeah and I guess my other point I have to make now is Top Gear sucks and people who live and die by their words need to get a life and get out in the real world and actually drive and (more importantly) do some actual work to a real car so maybe you can have a better understanding about the way things really work. Top Gear is full of crap and thats all there is to it, which really is a shame because they have some great cinematography and editing and whatnot on that show, its just too bad ass heads like Clarkson have to ruin it.You seem to be doing that.

[Juggs]

wow where to start. I guess here:


The Stig is Top Gear's racing driver- apparently a guy called Ben Collins.


I'd agree with him. From personal experience, cars with huge engines and cams end up with nasty street characteristics- if you keep Eleanor over 2,000rpm she's happy, but she's jerky and vicious at traffic speeds. That's a 7.9 V8.


thanks for the tidbit of info on the stig thing. But your still wrong about cars being too powerful. i'm not saying there aren't cars out there that aren't too powerful for the street, what i am saying is its all in the setup of the motor. i could show you plenty of 1k horsepower cars that people drive every day with no problems what so ever. they sit in traffic jams with the AC on and no problems. they take off and stop like normal cars. (granted most of the examples i would show you would be turbo cars).

I don't know what eleanor you are talking about but it sounds to mean like this car in question has a big block v8 set up for the strip in it. NOT a very streetable setup. the corvette on the other hand is EXTREMELY smooth and great on the road even with that much power. its all about how you drive and the torque curve of the engine. The LS7 motor in the z06 corvette is an AMAZING motor and perfectly fine on any street and and traffic condition (the only time i would ever get a little worried driving that thing is maybe if it was a torrential downpour or it started snowing).

The car is not too powerful for normal driving, its fine just learn to drive correctly.
there is a HUGE HUGE HUGE difference between a stock LS7 and this obviously heavily modified eleanor you speak of. this is a point i can't even believe i am arguing and proves to me what i have known all along about most of you guys on this forum: while most of you are good at making informative posts and whatnot most (not all) of you only know numbers and data that are shown to you by magazines and tv shows and have very little to no mechanical knowlege of how to build a motor, what different combos do, what different suspension setups do, ect. basically what i am trying to say is you guys know a lot of figures but figures only get you so far. try getting your hands dirty once in a while.


I DO know what cars ran in the rain or on the old system where they went out and deliberately wet the track, I have the vids on PC.


Maybe because they don't feel the need to repeat themselves over and over again.

He actually said for the real world he'd rather the normal Corvette. Or bird flu.

He didn't like the amount of driveline shunt, the radio's rubbish (admittedly not that important) the tyre roar, too wide (wouldn't be an issue in the US, elsewhere more so) trim is woeful, ride is horrible, gearbox feels like it came from a tractor.

Oh my God, someone thinks are a car is too powerful!!! :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:


You seem to be doing that.

ok and the Shelby still beat a bunch of cars you like better (because not all of them were done on wet tracks) even with its shitty handling, but its american so it must be a peice of crap. no.

I still don't see the point you are trying to make about the dyno thing either. They didn't have to repeat themselves in this instance. They didn't even do the simple math to figure out the drive train loss. the simply got the rear wheel number and called it good there. you quoted this: ""By letting it run down they can convert the mechanical drag into the extra horsepower at the flywheel"" and yes you are correct they can (and should have) do this. BUT THEY DIDN'T! they simply got the rear wheel horsepower and called ford liars, they didn't "let it run down" so they could "convert the mechanical drag". the advertised horsepower rating is measured from the flywheel and they know that. they just wanted to make unfounded claims so they could bash on the car and they knew kids like you guys would fall for it.

I want to thank you for reminding me exactly some of the things that jeremy said about the vette ( you will have to forgive me i am on dial up internet so i don't get the privledge to watch videos whenever i want like most of you guys). lets break this down


driveline shunt- what exactly is driveline shunt? can you tell me? i don't know exactly what he means by this statement but i'll tell you what when i rode in a c6 (not a z06 but the driveline is nearly the same besides the motor) i did not notice anything out of the ordinary. i have not heard this complaint from one other credible (and i do not consider top gear credible) source. until this can be better explained i am calling bs.

tire roar- the ZO6 comes with the same tires as many top super cars. i gaurentee you this car does not have any worse tire roar than any of the roadsters or other exotics that you guys hold so dear. there is no way. this is not a luxury car (although it does have some very luxurious options). its not louder than any of the other cars in its class (most of which cost 2-3 times as much money!!!)

trim is woeful- i have seen him pull this move before. watch the ford lightning review, where the interior does kinda look bad but in all my years i have never seen a brand new car look like that. my guess is that it is a used and abused test car or it was deliberatly made to look bad. while they didnt show exactly what trim jeremy was talking about on the corvette i'm willing to bet it is not that bad. ESPECIALLY when you consider how cheap the corvette is to buy. i have been in the interior of many vettes, and i must say its nice. its not BMW or mercedes nice, that i can admit, but there was nothing wrong with it what so ever.

and now for my favorite: the gearbox feels like it is from a tractor- this one made me laugh out loud when i first heard it. the corvette uses a tremec t-56 6 speed manual gearbox. the SAME gearbox used in cars such as cobras (and the GT500 coincidently), vipers, trans ams/camaro SS, and pay attention now: Aston Martin DB7 Vantage and V12 Vanquish, and Holden Commodore and Monaro (and US GTO's). no complaints about a tractor gearbox with those cars.

and no the car is still not too powerful. learn to drive. i never hear him complain about driving his ferraris and porsches with just as much power. give it a break. its not too powerful and this show is full of lies.

i hope jeremy clarkson does catch bird flu, he deserves that a lot more than a corvette.

[Juggs]

Who is the one generalising here? :rolleyes:

You come up with an absurd statement that GT500 "doesn't have any wheel hop" but cars equipped with IRS do

I respond by SHOWING you a video of a GT500 that IS getting wheel hop. And to further show up your silly generalisations I threw in another vid of an (admittedly modified) IRS Monaro that seems to exhibit NO wheel hop whatsoever

Naturally this proves too much for your live-axle brain so you descend into a totally irrelevant anti-Clarkson diatribe while effortlessly ignoring what is before YOUR very eyes, which is ..

live-axle vehicle A with patter, dance, hop etc
IRS vehicle B without any of the above

Forget Clarkson - why is this so hard for you to see what is before YOUR OWN eyes? And to comprehend for YOUR self what is depicted in front of you? :confused:

No I am not claiming that one system completely eliminates wheel hop, while the other always mandates it (unlike you repeatedly have) because that would be stupid wouldn't it? Ignorant too - an ignorant stupid generalisation

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hmY_rSDIGuI

Here above is another vid (picked at random). See any "crappy IRS" wheel hop from this regular GTO? Any evidence of it displayed in those long burnout tracks? How can this be! The on-road dynamic benefits of IRS but with no traction hystronics at all? :eek:


Still laughing at this one - pretty much the same "road race set up" as Nissan Patrol 4WD Cab-Chassis truck LOL :D :D :D

first i want to say i'm not going to forget about clarkson. i discussing 2 different things with 2 different people (you and 2ndclass). i would MUCH rather argue with 2ndclass because he makes better arguements than you. you are not that important. everything you have typed into this thread so far is so utterly rediculous that i can't believe i am spending the time to argue with you but here it is anyways.

that is not a generalization, it is a fact. saying that IRS=wheelhop is a generalization is like saying trucks can pull more weight than cars is a generalization. there are cars out there that can pull cargo, probably some that have pulled more than trucks, but the fact that trucks pull more than cars is still a fact, not a generalization. the same holds true for IRS. cars with IRS wheel hop like a mofo. just because u showed me one video where a guy makes a gt500 wheel hop (i'll go out and make my car wheel hop too if i wanna act like i don't know how to drive) and one where a guy with a GTO doesnt wheel hop doesn't mean that what you said is still untrue.

i can show you plenty of cobras with IRS that take off with little to no wheel hop too. theres no telling how much money they have into their rear end setups and they clearly know how to drive pretty well. but the simple fact is IRS cars wheel hop and if you need more proof ask any guy who drag races and IRS car. they will tell you the same thing and they own the car. GTO's wheel hop bad. go to a GTO message board and ask them about it, they will tell you the same as me.

i wasnt saying wheel hop is completley eliminated on either system either, but trust me having a solid axle in back is FAR FAR better as far as wheel hop goes.

as i stated in an earlier post i can't watch videos. but thats ok because i don't need to. unlike you (POSER) i get my experience in the real world. i have driven fast IRS cars, i own a mustang with a solid axle, i have driven many other fast solid axle cars. i have watched all of the aforementioned vehicles raced and driven countless times. i could show you videos all day long too, but that doesnt make anything right, because their just that, videos. quit arguing because you are WRONG. IRS wheel hops bad, axle doesn't.

oh and i'm still laughing at you: do you know how many SUV's have IRS setups? i guess that means cars with IRS handle like crap too because suv's have them. LOL LOL LOL RFLMAO PWNED PWNED :rolleyes: shut up with all that garbage. you don't know anything and its obvious. just shut up. so what if a truck uses a similar system, i'm telling you that this is a great setup for track racing BECAUSE IT IS. if it wasn't why would the millions of people who use them and even buy kits like this and install them on their cars be around. how old are you? what kind of car do you even drive? have you ever raced before? im doubting it and if you have you didn't know anything about it.


LACK OF IRS IS NOT WHAT KILLS THE SHELBY!! IT IS A MOOT POINT TO ARGUE ABOUT THE SHELBY. irs wouldn't have helped. IRS can be a great system, i would never say it wasn't. IRS is great and yeah it makes cars usually handle better. in this case it would have only added weight and the solid axle does just fine (contrary to "popular" belief) and it still keeps the drag racers happy.



i'm done on here for now. if i see some evidence of people making good points AND actually knowing what they are talking about i might chime back in. until them however i am done. i feel my points have been made and are accurate.

[Cyco]

ok and the Shelby still beat a bunch of cars you like better (because not all of them were done on wet tracks) even with its shitty handling, but its american so it must be a peice of crap. no.

It also failed to beat a lot of cars that have less power than it. That would probably indicate its handelling let it down - or would me getting my hands dirty teach me something else?

One of the cars you listed as it beating (the AM Vanquish) had so much standing water it was amazing they even went round in it.



I still don't see the point you are trying to make about the dyno thing either. They didn't have to repeat themselves in this instance. They didn't even do the simple math to figure out the drive train loss. the simply got the rear wheel number and called it good there. you quoted this: ""By letting it run down they can convert the mechanical drag into the extra horsepower at the flywheel"" and yes you are correct they can (and should have) do this. BUT THEY DIDN'T! they simply got the rear wheel horsepower and called ford liars, they didn't "let it run down" so they could "convert the mechanical drag". the advertised horsepower rating is measured from the flywheel and they know that. they just wanted to make unfounded claims so they could bash on the car and they knew kids like you guys would fall for it.

Where is your proof they didn't do the run down and calculate the engine power from that?

They used the same people and equipment as the last time they did the dyno test and the results were given to them as corrected engine power. So obviously they got the guys to totally change their set-up this time.....


i want to thank you for reminding me exactly some of the things that jeremy said about the vette ( you will have to forgive me i am on dial up internet so i don't get the privledge to watch videos whenever i want like most of you guys). lets break this down


driveline shunt- what exactly is driveline shunt? can you tell me? i don't know exactly what he means by this statement but i'll tell you what when i rode in a c6 (not a z06 but the driveline is nearly the same besides the motor) i did not notice anything out of the ordinary. i have not heard this complaint from one other credible (and i do not consider top gear credible) source. until this can be better explained i am calling bs.

It is also called "lash" its the "looseness" in the system. It can quite easily be felt, its the amount of time between the lifting off power and the engine braking that comes from it. This also applies to how harsh this is.


tire roar- the ZO6 comes with the same tires as many top super cars. i gaurentee you this car does not have any worse tire roar than any of the roadsters or other exotics that you guys hold so dear. there is no way. this is not a luxury car (although it does have some very luxurious options). its not louder than any of the other cars in its class (most of which cost 2-3 times as much money!!!)

Just because 2 cars come with the same tyres does not mean they will come with the same tyre noise.

Things that can affect tyre noise include (but probably not limited to):
Inflation
Temperature
Camber
Toe
Suspension bushing material
Wheel well sound insulation
Interior cabin materials
Engine bay shape
Boot shape and what it contains

Have you driven a Z06? Have you driven other cars in its class? If not how can you compare them?


trim is woeful- i have seen him pull this move before. watch the ford lightning review, where the interior does kinda look bad but in all my years i have never seen a brand new car look like that. my guess is that it is a used and abused test car or it was deliberatly made to look bad. while they didnt show exactly what trim jeremy was talking about on the corvette i'm willing to bet it is not that bad. ESPECIALLY when you consider how cheap the corvette is to buy. i have been in the interior of many vettes, and i must say its nice. its not BMW or mercedes nice, that i can admit, but there was nothing wrong with it what so ever.

Thats a cultural difference between the US and the rest of the world - we expect nice interiors. You many be happy with what you get there, the rest of the world thinks it isn't good enough. Also remember in the rest of the world Corvettes of any type are not the cheap performance cars they are in the US.


and now for my favorite: the gearbox feels like it is from a tractor- this one made me laugh out loud when i first heard it. the corvette uses a tremec t-56 6 speed manual gearbox. the SAME gearbox used in cars such as cobras (and the GT500 coincidently), vipers, trans ams/camaro SS, and pay attention now: Aston Martin DB7 Vantage and V12 Vanquish, and Holden Commodore and Monaro (and US GTO's). no complaints about a tractor gearbox with those cars.

The actual gearbox does not control the feel of it's shifting.

Gearbox feel is much more influenced by the linkages and how hard the engineers job was to get that feeling smooth.

"Tractor" feel can be caused by something as simple as a long gear lever thus requiring a long throw.


i hope jeremy clarkson does catch bird flu, he deserves that a lot more than a corvette.

Karma's a bitch


as i stated in an earlier post i can't watch videos. but thats ok because i don't need to. unlike you (POSER) i get my experience in the real world. i have driven fast IRS cars, i own a mustang with a solid axle, i have driven many other fast solid axle cars. i have watched all of the aforementioned vehicles raced and driven countless times. i could show you videos all day long too, but that doesnt make anything right, because their just that, videos. quit arguing because you are WRONG. IRS wheel hops bad, axle doesn't.

I hate to break the news to you Juggs, but nota has owned, raced and modified more cars of both live-axle and IRS types than you are ever likely to own (just under 70 not counting his dealer owning years when I asked).

nota also has an almost encyclopaedic knowledge of Australian, English and American cars having owned, or driven most of them. If he posts a video that proves your assertions incorrect that does not make him a poser, it is his way of furthering the discussion. That you can't or won't view the videos says a lot more about your close minded attitude than him.


oh and i'm still laughing at you: do you know how many SUV's have IRS setups? i guess that means cars with IRS handle like crap too because suv's have them. LOL LOL LOL RFLMAO PWNED PWNED :rolleyes: shut up with all that garbage. you don't know anything and its obvious. just shut up. so what if a truck uses a similar system, i'm telling you that this is a great setup for track racing BECAUSE IT IS. if it wasn't why would the millions of people who use them and even buy kits like this and install them on their cars be around. how old are you? what kind of car do you even drive? have you ever raced before? im doubting it and if you have you didn't know anything about it.

Looks awfully like the lashings out of someone who has lost an argument and knows it.


i'm done on here for now. if i see some evidence of people making good points AND actually knowing what they are talking about i might chime back in. until them however i am done. i feel my points have been made and are accurate.

So now your going to take your bat and ball and go home?

I've never been a fan of American cars, but as I actually have driven many of the Corvette's competitors I'll make an attempt to drive either a C6 or a Z06 and give a comparison to them. Maybe you should do the same.

[adrenaline]

i'm done on here for now. if i see some evidence of people making good points AND actually knowing what they are talking about i might chime back in. until them however i am done. i feel my points have been made and are accurate.

I hate it when people say that and then bail - it screams out "I'm wrong, and can't admit it" :p

[2ndclasscitizen]

tire roar- the ZO6 comes with the same tires as many top super cars. i gaurentee you this car does not have any worse tire roar than any of the roadsters or other exotics that you guys hold so dear. there is no way. this is not a luxury car (although it does have some very luxurious options). its not louder than any of the other cars in its class (most of which cost 2-3 times as much money!!!)Strange, whenever a test result showed that cars such as the F430 and Gallardo were quicker, the crappy runflats on the Z06 was the first defense that was given to it for the poor result. Name one other supercar that uses the Goodyear runflats. Ferrari's use Bridgestone Potenzas, Porsche and Lambo use Pirellis, none of which are runflats.


and now for my favorite: the gearbox feels like it is from a tractor- this one made me laugh out loud when i first heard it. the corvette uses a tremec t-56 6 speed manual gearbox. the SAME gearbox used in cars such as cobras (and the GT500 coincidently), vipers, trans ams/camaro SS, and pay attention now: Aston Martin DB7 Vantage and V12 Vanquish, and Holden Commodore and Monaro (and US GTO's). no complaints about a tractor gearbox with those cars. The Vanquish uses a electrohyrdaulic shifting system, and the T-56 used in Holdens in regularly panned about it's shift quality, by Top Gear and even (more like especially) by Aussie mags, whilst the version used in Aussie Fords isn't.

[Juggs]

I hate it when people say that and then bail - it screams out "I'm wrong, and can't admit it" :p

nope just can't believe some people are so blind to things and i have to argue about it. its rediculous and not worth my time. i am right. later.


2ndclass- one thing i must say you have me on is the tire thing, you are right they do come with run flats, i was under the assumption they came with protenzas or pilot sports.


cyco- if karma was truly a bitch jeremy would have been ****ed forever ago.
my apologies to nota for my assumptions, BUT i am still not impressed, seems to me somebody like that ought to know better already.

i can't even believe i am really defending the shelby which i really don't even like very much. i'd take a terminator cobra over one any day. but top gear is a crock and IRS on the shelby wouldnt have been good. thats just the way it is. goodbye. :)

[suckstillloves]

I think there's "too much" going on with all the packages,,,not so nice

it's like too much makeup for a pretty girl,,,no~~~

[El Toro Furioso]

hmm i think its ugly. and its going to be a pig just like the regular gt500 too. cool ass cars and all but man...it coulda been so much better!
true. i guess you could say modify the hood with a new one eh? but hopefully via the specs it is fast.