First R8 Written Off

[Street_Dreamer]

Awww. This is just too sad for words. You'll have to click through to see the pics for yourself. A new Audi RS8 undergoing some high-performance testing at the 'Ring burned to the ground before firefighters could douse the flames. The driver apparently escaped unharmed, but this beautiful sports car was lost. We suppose this is one of the reasons that manufacturers do extensive testing before releasing products to the public,.

We don't have a lot of details besides the photos by Hans Lehmann, but we know the images can be painful for fans of the R8 and this even more advanced version. The RS8 is the higher performance version of the already quick R8. Rumor has it we'll see a V10 in the engine bay when it finally gets all the bugs worked out and reaches showrooms. Some even say it will be packing as much as 600 hp, although with Lamborghini's Superleggera Gallardo only sporting 530, it would be an interesting corporate conflict if Audi is allowed to go large on the G.
Source: Winding Road via Autoblog

Sucks, The first Audi to be written off was the prototype, ah well. Beautiful car ruined. Bitterly disappointed. At least the driver is safe; i'm hoping this has the V12 TDI, so they don't step on Lambos toes, because most people (me if i had a license and the money :p) would take the lambo and this is the 911 rival. V12 Diesel makes more sense than the V10 in my opinion. However i think this has the V10 which i just don't understand (well, all the websites seem to suggest it is a V10)

[bmwpower]

OMG...there's nothing left of it. That's crazy!!

[baddabang]

bummer........

It looks like it just caught fire and didn't hit anything :confused:

[jediali]

i find this more saddeniing than the veyron accident.

[Ferrer]

I'm betting it was a Lamborghini employee who did that...

"And now let's see, a match here and... kaboom!"

:D

Another ugly, Lambo rip off destroyed... great! :)

[IWantAnAudiRS6]

I'm not really fussed by that, just happy that the driver got out fine. The R8 is a pointless exercise. Audi should stick with making what they know, rather than trying to do everything and anything. The A2 was a flop, and I can only hope that the R8 will be.

[Ferrer]

I'm not really fussed by that, just happy that the driver got out fine. The R8 is a pointless exercise. Audi should stick with making what they know, rather than trying to do everything and anything. The A2 was a flop, and I can only hope that the R8 will be.
I for one quite liked the high tech approach of the A2. A shame that it was a flop... :(

That means that next Audi supermini will be a lot more conventional.

[kingofthering]

Oh well, back to the drawing board! :rolleyes:

I kinda want this to be another NSX, an underappreciated supercar.

[rev440]

Oh well, back to the drawing board! :rolleyes:

I kinda want this to be another NSX, an underappreciated supercar.

A high reving small block V8 would be nice as IMO thats what the NSX needed.

[henk4]

does the standard version have a roll-cage too?

[kingofthering]

The NSX is(or was) supposed to be a lightweight supercar, not a flame-spitting V8 dragon. A V8 only screws up the purpose of the car.

[IWantAnAudiRS6]

Depends on the purpose you want to use it for.

[The_Canuck]

The NSX is(or was) supposed to be a lightweight supercar, not a flame-spitting V8 dragon. A V8 only screws up the purpose of the car.

Even though "Car and Driver" (Who have actuallly driven the car) say:

"this new generation, mid engined sports car has dynamic qualities that make the once-supreme Acura NSX feel downright unstable in comparison."

[Cotterik]

that chassis looks like the foundations for a greenhouse :p

[Waugh-terfall]

I feel like crying, I love R8's

[NSXType-R]

Yeah, V10 doesn't make any sense at all. However, it could be twin turboed, like it is rumored in the RS6.

[Ferrer]

Even though "Car and Driver" (Who have actuallly driven the car) say:

"this new generation, mid engined sports car has dynamic qualities that make the once-supreme Acura NSX feel downright unstable in comparison."
That's normal.

[Kitdy]

Yeah, V10 doesn't make any sense at all. However, it could be twin turboed, like it is rumored in the RS6.

I don't EXACTLY know why it doesn't make sense to put in a V10, but to me it jsut seems to make more sense to really beef it up and jam in a NA V12 in there; but VAG will probably do some cost-shaving-sharing BS and steal Lamborghini's V10 again... :p

[Ferrer]

I don't EXACTLY know why it doesn't make sense to put in a V10, but to me it jsut seems to make more sense to really beef it up and jam in a NA V12 in there; but VAG will probably do some cost-shaving-sharing BS and steal Lamborghini's V10 again... :p
But then what's the point of having bought Lamborghini? :confused:

[Quiggs]

But then what's the point of having bought Lamborghini? :confused:

Badge whoring?

As for the wreck...

http://hacme.dnsalias.net/images/Nelson-Ha-Ha.jpg

[fisetdavid26]

That's sad... such a beautiful car. As for the engine, I don't think it would be clever for Audi to put a V10, as it would be direct competition to the Gallardo which is not what I would call a good move from VAG. I think the R8 would be a good fit between the Gallardo and the Murcielago, probably with a diesel V12. That would be interesting.

[Kitdy]

But then what's the point of having bought Lamborghini? :confused:

It is probably the best busisness choice but I find all that sharing bullcrap is all so soulless, so put in the V10, have no soul - even if I had the money I wouldn't buy it.

[Pando]

It is probably the best busisness choice but I find all that sharing bullcrap is all so soulless, so put in the V10, have no soul - even if I had the money I wouldn't buy it.Why would you say it's "the best business choice"?

[herojan]

Oh amazing.

[Kitdy]

Why would you say it's "the best business choice"?

Because they are sharing that V10 with Lamborghini... slap on two turbos and BAM! "New" Audi engine.

Unless they already have a V12 diesel which I am not aware of...

[Ferrer]

Because they are sharing that V10 with Lamborghini... slap on two turbos and BAM! "New" Audi engine.

Unless they already have a V12 diesel which I am not aware of...
Q7 V12 TDI Concept car... :rolleyes:

[Pando]

Because they are sharing that V10 with Lamborghini... slap on two turbos and BAM! "New" Audi engine.

Unless they already have a V12 diesel which I am not aware of...
Ok, it seemed like you were referring to buying Lamborghini:

But then what's the point of having bought Lamborghini? :confused:

It is probably the best busisness choice but...

[Ferrer]

I still think that there wasn't much point in buying Lamborgihin if Audi wanted to compete with them. I guess that when Porsche takes over Volkswagen a big shake up will take place.

[Pando]

I don't really see the R8 directly eating on Lambo's territory. In my opinion they have a similar relation to the one of Phateon - Continental GT.

[Ferrer]

I don't really see the R8 directly eating on Lambo's territory. In my opinion they have a similar relation to the one of Phateon - Continental GT.
Well you're right, not as is, but if it gets the V10...

[Kitdy]

Well you're right, not as is, but if it gets the V10...

Isn't the point of good sportscars to have unique character and good performance? This engine sharing sillyness robs the heart of one car and puts it as the heart of another. Where is the personality? It just seems like they are taking a Gallardo and slapping an Audi badge and soome nice new body panels on it.

That is clearly not the case - but the more that two performace cars have in common the lamer the copycat car is.

I think that is a mathematical relationship. :p

[Ferrer]

Well the Gallardo has always been a bit Audi-ish so I don't think the transition was (is being) that difficult... ;)

[Coventrysucks]

First R8 Written Off

Crash testing?


Because they are sharing that V10 with Lamborghini... slap on two turbos and BAM! "New" Audi engine.

You're forgetting the increased displacement, FSI induction and reduction in redline.

I don't see that Audi and Lamborghini are impinging on each other's sales.

Firstly - if both Lamborghini and Audi are building and selling as many R8s and Gallardos as they can, then how are they "stealing" sales, or "taking over"?

Secondly - Audi and Lamborghini don't appeal to the same target demographics.

Lamborghini are typically brash and ostentatious; not something that will appeal to everyone with money. Rich people tend to be older, rather than younger, and an acid-green Gallardo might not appeal to someone in their 50s or 60s.

[henk4]

an acid-green Gallardo might not appeal to someone in their 50s or 60s.

hah:D

[Ferrer]

hah:D
I knew you had one.... :D

[Pando]

Well you're right, not as is, but if it gets the V10...
But even engines aside I don't think an Audi super car as a concept is decreasing Lambo's sales.

[Ferrer]

But even engines aside I don't think an Audi super car as a concept is decreasing Lambo's sales.
I think it will.

Let's see it like this. The market for cars above 150.000€ I believe it has a pretty stable demand. That said if a new car enters the market that means that all the sales it racks up will be at the expense of already established products, Lamborghini amongst them.

[Pando]

I think it will.

Let's see it like this. The market for cars above 150.000€ I believe it has a pretty stable demand. That said if a new car enters the market that means that all the sales it racks up will be at the expense of already established products, Lamborghini amongst them.On the contrary my theory is that if a brand like Audi enters the market it will be considered as a sensible choice and people who buy it will not buy it because of the brand but because of bang for the buck. Lamborghini is definitely not competing in this category. The R8 will eat up sales of Corvette's, Viper's, Porsche's, Maserati's and all super cars of "normal" brands (eg. Ford GT) etc. But will not be a threat to Lamborghini's and Ferrari's. Especially Lamborghini's. If any Lamborghini owner would've bought the car using careful thought - they wouldn't have.

[Kitdy]

I don't see that Audi and Lamborghini are impinging on each other's sales.

Where did I say they were cannabilizing each other's sales - I could care less about the business feasibility of VAG - but I do care about them popping out two similar sportscars. My point is this sportscar sharing busisness is slowoly robbing the cars of their souls.

[Ferrer]

On the contrary my theory is that if a brand like Audi enters the market it will be considered as a sensible choice and people who buy it will not buy it because of the brand but because of bang for the buck. Lamborghini is definitely not competing in this category. The R8 will eat up sales of Corvette's, Viper's, Porsche's, Maserati's and all super cars of "normal" brands (eg. Ford GT) etc. But will not be a threat to Lamborghini's and Ferrari's. Especially Lamborghini's. If any Lamborghini owner would've bought the car using careful thought - they wouldn't have.
While I see your point, I don't think a mid engined 2-seater V10 sportscar is that sensible... ;)

[NSXType-R]

I also don't see any conflict between the two. How far apart are they priced anyway? Isn't the Audi slightly cheaper?

I find the two to be beautiful, so I really don't mind. ;)

[RazaBlade]

Where did I say they were cannabilizing each other's sales - I could care less about the business feasibility of VAG - but I do care about them popping out two similar sportscars. My point is this sportscar sharing busisness is slowoly robbing the cars of their souls.
I highly doubt Audi will just grab a Lambo engine and plonk it in the R8 - a bit of work will go on to Audi-fy it - in exactly the same way a Leon Cupra and Golf Gti have same engine, but diff characteristics. I dont see any harm in having a V10 in the Audi, it wont detract people from buying a Gallardo who were already going too.

Back to the pic, Im surprised how little is actually left of the car - i hope the fire crew took a long time to get there, would be scary to think that picture was taken a few mins after the fire starting....

[Waugh-terfall]

I think they're begining to make them less Audi like now. At current they use Audi navigation and sound systems and their climate control switches are from the A8 too, from now Lamborghini is going to be making more bespoke switchgear etc.

[RazaBlade]

I meant the other way around, if Audi were to use the V10, Audi would work their magic on the Lambo engine to make it more Audi-like, rather than just leaving it as it is, thereby creating a new 'soul' for the car as Kitdy put it.

[Kitdy]

I meant the other way around, if Audi were to use the V10, Audi would work their magic on the Lambo engine to make it more Audi-like, rather than just leaving it as it is, thereby creating a new 'soul' for the car as Kitdy put it.

You gosta have soul.

[Waugh-terfall]

I meant the other way around, if Audi were to use the V10, Audi would work their magic on the Lambo engine to make it more Audi-like, rather than just leaving it as it is, thereby creating a new 'soul' for the car as Kitdy put it.

Well they've already got a Gallardo derrived V10, the 5.2litre on that you can find under the bonnets of the new S6 and S8

[Kitdy]

Well they've already got a Gallardo derrived V10, the 5.2litre on that you can find under the bonnets of the new S6 and S8

Doesn't that reek of sloppyness? Low end cars are supposda share parts not Audis!

Anyways, I read in C+D that the V10 in the S8 just doesn't cut it. No crap, the V10 was designed for a Lamborghini sportscar not an Audi luxury sedan!

[Waugh-terfall]

Doesn't that reek of sloppyness? Low end cars are supposda share parts not Audis!

Anyways, I read in C+D that the V10 in the S8 just doesn't cut it. No crap, the V10 was designed for a Lamborghini sportscar not an Audi luxury sedan!

It's not the same engine really, the Lamborghini uses a 5.0litre V10 whilst the Audi's use a 5.2litre.

[jediali]

Doesn't that reek of sloppyness? Low end cars are supposda share parts not Audis!

Anyways, I read in C+D that the V10 in the S8 just doesn't cut it. No crap, the V10 was designed for a Lamborghini sportscar not an Audi luxury sedan!

It would make sense for audi to detune the V10 so not to step on lambos feet. In all fairness the lambo V10 was developed form the audi V8 so they deserve something back. We can all see companies sharing parts now..we dont sniff at Bentley continental because it has a phaeton platform underneath (we have other reasons :)) I guess only the mega-rich companies can afford not to collaborate these days to survive.

[jediali]

The lambo had dry sump oil lubrication system and intake/exhaust tuned for high end breathing, for say an audi S8 it might be nice to give it a more flexible intake system and direct injection (FSI) to make it a tad more relaxing to drive, i guess power could have been maintained in the audis but it didn't seem the priority, instead the just wanted "V10" on the back of the car and a bit more torque. Audi were not trying to compete with the BMW V10 (at least not yet):)..i could be wrong

[Waugh-terfall]

It would make sense for audi to detune the V10 so not to step on lambos feet. In all fairness the lambo V10 was developed form the audi V8 so they deserve something back. We can all see companies sharing parts now..we dont sniff at Bentley continental because it has a phaeton platform underneath (we have other reasons :)) I guess only the mega-rich companies can afford not to collaborate these days to survive.

Lamborghini's V10 is derrived from Audi's old straight 5 engine and Audi's V10 isn't as powerful as Lamborghini's anyway, despite it being slightly bigger.

Audi 5.2-V10 - 450BHP / 540NM Torque

Lamborghini 5.0-V10 - 520BHP / 510NM Torque

[NSXType-R]

It really would be interesting to see the diesel V-12 in the R8. Then you guys wouldn't be complaining so much. ;)

[Waugh-terfall]

The lambo had dry sump oil lubrication system and intake/exhaust tuned for high end breathing, for say an audi S8 it might be nice to give it a more flexible intake system and direct injection (FSI) to make it a tad more relaxing to drive, i guess power could have been maintained in the audis but it didn't seem the priority, instead the just wanted "V10" on the back of the car and a bit more torque. Audi were not trying to compete with the BMW V10 (at least not yet):)..i could be wrong

Audi's is FSI

[Kitdy]

It really would be interesting to see the diesel V-12 in the R8. Then you guys wouldn't be complaining so much. ;)

Audi has already developed a diesel V12?

[jediali]

Audi's is FSI

my bad english, i meant to imply audi gave it more real world features like FSI and shorter longer intake etc..sorry to confuse

edit: where did you read the V10 came from the straight 5? my research indicates so many similar specs (even bore and stroke) between the (S4) V8 and V10, it is common especially for V engines with common bank angles. e.g the old merc 3vpc 5.5 V8 and 3.2 V6 where made on same production line so when one changes they both change - we now have a new 4 vpc 3.5 V6 and a V8 all with this common 90 deg bank angle (compulsary for V8 and one type of V6 (othere type is 60 deg))..you know your stuff and could be right though.

[Waugh-terfall]

Audi has already developed a diesel V12?

The Q7 V12-TDI concept.
http://www.easier.com/view/News/Motoring/Audi/article-92489.html

and the R10 LeMans racer.
http://www.audi.com/audi/com/en2/experience/motorsport_events/Audi_R10_TDI.html


my bad english, i meant to imply audi gave it more real world features like FSI and shorter longer intake etc..sorry to confuse

Oh right, no worries.

[Ferrer]

It would make sense for audi to detune the V10 so not to step on lambos feet. In all fairness the lambo V10 was developed form the audi V8 so they deserve something back. We can all see companies sharing parts now..we dont sniff at Bentley continental because it has a phaeton platform underneath (we have other reasons :))
I do. If I buy a Bentley I want one, not a Volkswagen Continental...

Lamborghini's V10 is derrived from Audi's old straight 5 engine and Audi's V10 isn't as powerful as Lamborghini's anyway, despite it being slightly bigger.
I'm pretty confindent those two engines don't share a single bolt.

[Kitdy]

The Q7 V12-TDI concept.

and the R10 LeMans racer.

I knew about the R10 but forgot about the Q7 V12-TDI concept.

What is the Lamborghini V10 based on, if anything then?


I do. If I buy a Bentley I want one, not a Volkswagen Continental...

Agreed. I do sniff it at jediali. Take that! :p

[Waugh-terfall]

What is the Lamborghini V10 based on, if anything then?

The Gallardo's V10 engine is based on Audi's old straight-5 design.
The 5.0litre V10 is a essentially the current Audi 4.2litre V8 with two extra cylinders added and a slightly smaller bore diameter.

[jediali]

The Gallardo's V10 engine is based on Audi's old straight-5 design.
The 5.0litre V10 is a essentially the current Audi 4.2litre V8 with two extra cylinders added and a slightly smaller bore diameter.
ie: audi 4.2 V8 is based on its old straight 5??

[Waugh-terfall]

ie: audi 4.2 V8 is based on its old straight 5??

I'm not sure really, I think design wise yes.

[Vaigra]

I'm not sure really, I think design wise yes.
Really? How did you work that out? Straight 5 to V8...kind of a big difference in my eyes.

[Ferrer]

I'm not sure really, I think design wise yes.
It's not.

The old V8 engine was first used in the Audi V8 flagship saloon. This engine basically consisted in two 4 cylinder Golf GTI cylinder block mated together to create a 3562cc (originally 250bhp) normally aspirated V8 which was later enlarged to 4172cc (originally 280, later up to 340bhp). Eventually it was also available in 3697cc form developing 280bhp.

This was superseeded by a modified engine, which was shorter in order to fit under the A4's bonnet to create the S4. This displaced 4163cc and had 344bhp. Over the years it has received direct fuel injection and other enhancements to make the current line of FSI V8's in either 350bhp or 420bhp states of tune. The Lamborghini V10 is derived from this engine, and in it's turn the 2.5-litre five cylinder engine used by Volkswagen US in the Golf and the Jetta is losely based in the Lambo unit.

[jediali]

Really? How did you work that out? Straight 5 to V8...kind of a big difference in my eyes.
Ferrers post i think is spot on ^. In theory however you could transfer the design work of any engine to another engine of different configeration. E.g rover k series i4 to v6 - they re-used the combustion chamber and valvetrain assembly, things that are independent of configuration :)

[Kitdy]

Excellent work Ferrer, that clears things up perfectly. Did you know all that off the top of your head?!

[jediali]

Agreed. I do sniff it at jediali. Take that! :p
i sniff at the continental because its a well engineered car thats boring, unlike the arnage which is like a steaming battleship, but exciting. second to that i sniff at it because its the chelsea players company car, then i sniff at it because a phaeton is objectively a better car.

[Vaigra]

Ferrers post i think is spot on ^. In theory however you could transfer the design work of any engine to another engine of different configeration. E.g rover k series i4 to v6 - they re-used the combustion chamber and valvetrain assembly, things that are independent of configuration :)
I figured that part out. I just thought maybe he was talking about configuration wise, so I asked him for an explanation lol

[Ferrer]

Excellent work Ferrer, that clears things up perfectly. Did you know all that off the top of your head?!
Not exactly. I knew the basic info, checked some details... et voila. :)

By the way, I wouldn't be suprised if the 90º V6 family of engines was also based on the seminal V8.

[jediali]

I figured that part out. I just thought maybe he was talking about configuration wise, so I asked him for an explanation lol

no problem, designing a new crankshaft and block is probably quite feasable and better than designing a whole new engine.

[kingofthering]

We could listen to the video to figure out what's under the hood....http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_mS2J9Nabbg&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Eautoblog%2Ecom%2F2007%2F04 %2F10%2Fvideo%2Daudi%2Drs8%2Dbefore%2Dthe%2Dflames %2F

[Ingolstadt]

The Winding Road magazine reported as RS8, not an R8.

Look at the pics, it had a bigger air intake that bulges out instead of R8's. Hence this is confirmed to be the 5.2 V10 engine RS8 derived from Gallardo.

The larger intake makes more sense than that carbonfibre crap IMO.

[Waugh-terfall]

Yeah, I thought it a bit confusing... I know that Lamborghini's V10 is essentially Audi's 4.2-V8 with 2 extra cylinders but when I went to double check this on Wikipedia, it told me that Lamborghini's V10 is based on the design on the old I5 which totally blew me.

[jediali]

Yeah, I thought it a bit confusing... I know that Lamborghini's V10 is essentially Audi's 4.2-V8 with 2 extra cylinders but when I went to double check this on Wikipedia, it told me that Lamborghini's V10 is based on the design on the old I5 which totally blew me.
and we all know wiki is reliable! on the subject anyone seen wikimapia? its google satelite maps with discussion.

[Waugh-terfall]

and we all know wiki is reliable! on the subject anyone seen wikimapia? its google satelite maps with discussion.

What a name...

[Vaigra]

Wikipedia, my reference for absolutely anything. I am now a qualified quantum physicist.

[Ingolstadt]

On general terms, it's more reliable than most forums.

[Pando]

While I see your point, I don't think a mid engined 2-seater V10 sportscar is that sensible... ;)
:) I was talking about the current R8, but same would go for a V10.

[Ferrer]

:) I was talking about the current R8, but same would go for a V10.
I was talking about the V10, I do agree that the V8-engined R8 doesn't conflict with the Gallardo.

[Coventrysucks]

the V8-engined R8 doesn't conflict with the Gallardo.

Neither does a V10 version.

Lamborghini built 5000 Gallardos in the first three years of production;that's only 1700 or so a year.

According to an article in Car magazine 534 (Feb), the annual market for cars over £100,000 is 25,000. With that many people wanting cars, I doubt that Lamborghini would struggle that hard to net 1700 of them.

I think the notion that the R8 will steal Lamborghini sales is fundamentally flawed anyway:

They are both mid engine sports cars that share a few components, but are from fairly distinct brands and are separated by c.£40,000 (a Gallardo is 60% more expensive than an R8...). The notion that, because of the vague similarities, customers will all want cheaper R8s is akin to suggesting that no one would buy an Audi A4 because the VW Passat exists.

Which brings me to the following argument about the two cars.

The Passat and A4 are both VAG products and share components; engines, gearboxes, bits of interior trim, etc. Yet they are still different cars, with different characteristics and attributes. Why is not possible for the R8 and Gallardo to retain a similar level of distinction? They may share components, but they are engineered and developed by different companies with different goals - of course the end product is going to be different.

Finally; for sharing an engine removing the "soul" -
The Aston DB7 was largely build from old Jaguar XJSs and Ford Mondeos, but that didn't stop it from being the company's most successful car, until the DB9; again using an engine from a Ford Mondeo or two.

Ferrari engines can be found in Maserati saloons, Pagani engines can be found in old Merc saloons, Koenigsegg and Saleen engines can be found in old Mustangs, and TVRs used to be made out of Ford Granadas. (In each case, as with the Lamborghini and Audi V10s, there is a degree of modification involved.) No one ever complains that they "lack soul".

In summary:

There are enough people wanting to buy expensive cars to warrant Audi entering the market, without harming anyone else's sales.

The cars are distinct, not just carbon-copies with different badges

No one (who buys these cars) cares where the engines come from.

[kingofthering]

The point is, Audi, a multi-billion Euro company would not have just built a $100,000 aluminium sports car just for fun.

They probably did some research and discovered a niche to fill under the Gallardo. Also, it's a 911/DB9 competitor, so the Gallardo has nothing to worry about.

[Vaigra]

You've just contradicted yourself. You're saying they're filling a niche but then go on to say that it's a 911 and DB9 competitor?

[RazaBlade]

^ He prob meant a niche for their company, as opposed to the motoring market as a whole.

Its always great when CS can put into proper words what many of us were pointing at through this thread, thanks dude.

[Ferrer]

Furthermore how can a mid engined 2 seater be a competitior of the DB9? :confused:

[Waugh-terfall]

Would it not be more towards the V8Vantage, both engine configuation-wise, size-wise and price-wise?

[Coventrysucks]

Don't forget power (if you get it Prodrive'd) and weight-wise too.

[kingofthering]

Road and Track compared it to the Aston and Porsche.

[2ndclasscitizen]

Furthermore how can a mid engined 2 seater be a competitior of the DB9? :confused:

Because a DB9 is a 2+2 in name only. There's probably just as much room behind the seats in an R8 as there is in the rear seats of a DB9

[Ferrer]

Because a DB9 is a 2+2 in name only. There's probably just as much room behind the seats in an R8 as there is in the rear seats of a DB9
Still, one is a front engined GT and the other a mid engined sportscar, don't see how they are rivals...

[quattro_20v]

Here in the Netherlands there is only 500 euros price difference between the R8 and V8 Vantage, the DB9 is a lot more expensive and has a V12. And with power the audi is somewhere between the 2, altho closer to de DB9.

[Ingolstadt]

Still, one is a front engined GT and the other a mid engined sportscar, don't see how they are rivals...


They are rivals for kids in forums, not to businessmen in showrooms

[QuattroMan]

just came-back from r8 drive i love it here are some pics...

[Cyco]

Looks like fun QuattroMan.

Has it got you reconsidering the Gallardo?

[Rockefella]

Q-man, you've gotta give us a nice detailed explanation on the drive.. you're a lucky guy. :)

[QuattroMan]

Looks like fun QuattroMan.

Has it got you reconsidering the Gallardo?

no way you can replace gallardo,,,but r8 is nice car

[QuattroMan]

Q-man, you've gotta give us a nice detailed explanation on the drive.. you're a lucky guy. :)

rockefella my friend how are you,,,,, i will soon...i've been working my @ss-off dont have much time...