Blue Devil confirmed.

[Quiggs]

2009. http://www.caranddriver.com/dailyautoinsider/12814/2009-corvette-blue-devil-confirmed-and-in-final-tuning-phase.html


“It’s a very difficult vehicle development. This thing has so much power that we have to explore a dynamic envelope that we’ve never explored before. We want the vehicle to be safe and we want it to be predictable, even at speeds that no mortal is ever going to attain in the United States. That’s our obligation. We’re really into a speed and power realm that General Motors has never been in before. We’re way up there with Porsche Carrera GTs and Ferraris.”

<insert Mother of God "SuperTroopers" picture here>

[Rockefella]

<insert Mother of God "SuperTroopers" picture here>


http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=239314&stc=1&d=1176589675

[fisetdavid26]

Mother of God, indeed. That thing is so frigging awesome.

[ScionDriver]

It's going to be a beast no doubt about it. I can't wait to hear the V8 rumble for the first time. This might just be a Corvette that I can like.

[Ferrer]

It's great.

On the other hand cancelling their line of rear driven US cars because they couldn't met minimum gas mileages and then anouncing this makes no sense at all.

[ZeTurbo]

It's great.

On the other hand cancelling their line of rear driven US cars because they couldn't met minimum gas mileages and then anouncing this makes no sense at all.

The Irony is blinding

[Rockefella]

It's great.

On the other hand cancelling their line of rear driven US cars because they couldn't met minimum gas mileages and then anouncing this makes no sense at all.


The Irony is blinding

What?!?

A 650 hp RWD monster and a fleet of RWD coupes and sedans have very little in common, the irony is non-existant.

[092326001]

The Z06 is enough for me, they should leave the rest to tuners like Lingenfelter.

RWD sedans seem to be more popular now, thats why chrysler built the 300 and charger

[Spastik_Roach]

It's great.

On the other hand cancelling their line of rear driven US cars because they couldn't met minimum gas mileages and then anouncing this makes no sense at all.

shut up man...they might be reading this

[Quiggs]

It's great.

On the other hand cancelling their line of rear driven US cars because they couldn't met minimum gas mileages and then anouncing this makes no sense at all.

There's a huge difference between building one low-volume uber-car and building a line up of high volume passenger cars.

[my porsche]

Maybe with this one they can make the interior decent and charge enough to rid it of the chest wig and gold chain beer gulping douche bag image most corvettes have.

[Quiggs]

Maybe with this one they can make the interior decent and charge enough to rid it of the chest wig and gold chain beer gulping douche bag image most corvettes have.

Funny, most Corvettes I see are driven by the middle aged, hair-turning-white, midlife crisis-having, left the wife for the secretary male.

[kingofthering]

Wow... an extra 40K for 150hp. Hopefully, they'll boost it up another 50.

[092326001]

ZR-1 charged less for about the same amount of power

[carsnut]

Funny, most Corvettes I see are driven by the middle aged, hair-turning-white, midlife crisis-having, left the wife for the secretary male.

Funny, its the same story here xD:D

[drakkie]

Perhaps it is a good plan to actually try and make money to survive,instead of trowing it into the dumpster :D

[clutch-monkey]

Perhaps it is a good plan to actually try and make money to survive,instead of trowing it into the dumpster :D

i'm not sure i understand.

[Coventrysucks]

i'm not sure i understand.

How exactly does a "Porsche and Ferrari" beating supercar fit in with a range of insipid FWD econo-boxes and glutinous SUVs?

Still, at least fanboys will have something to shout about and claim how America makes the best cars because of the wonderful skid-pan results, whilst the rest of GM continues to capsize and go under, proving them woefully wrong.

[Rockefella]

How exactly does a "Porsche and Ferrari" beating supercar fit in with a range of insipid FWD econo-boxes and glutinous SUVs?

Still, at least fanboys will have something to shout about and claim how America makes the best cars because of the wonderful skid-pan results, whilst the rest of GM continues to capsize and go under, proving them woefully wrong.

Jealousy is a smelly cologne my friend. The ZO6 is a great car.. not much else to say about it, and I'm not one of the idiots ranting and raving about how it beats a Ferrari or other Italian supercar. It's a sportscar that you can buy for roughly 70k that will get you to work and back and provides a heck of a time on weekends.

[Ferrer]

What?!?

A 650 hp RWD monster and a fleet of RWD coupes and sedans have very little in common, the irony is non-existant.


There's a huge difference between building one low-volume uber-car and building a line up of high volume passenger cars.
If I understood it right the EPA (or whoever decides this things) is going to minimum average mileages which the car companies range of products will have to met. It's been said that this is average is going to be 34mpg. As a result GM wants to scrap almost entirely their plan of rear driven Zeta-based cars, cars which will be much easier to make met the average that's going to be set than this probably gas guzzling monster.

And yet they confirm this which isn't going to help the average at all, and can the others which if made well shouldn't harm the average.

I can certainly see the irony, more when the two announcements came shorlty one after the other. I'm not suprised that the american auto industry isn't going all that well.

Don't get me wrong, I love this car even if probably we'll never see it, but the above certainly makes me think.

How exactly does a "Porsche and Ferrari" beating supercar fit in with a range of insipid FWD econo-boxes and glutinous SUVs?
As well as the 8C does and I don't think you're complaining for it.

[clutch-monkey]

How exactly does a "Porsche and Ferrari" beating supercar fit in with a range of insipid FWD econo-boxes and glutinous SUVs?

Still, at least fanboys will have something to shout about and claim how America makes the best cars because of the wonderful skid-pan results, whilst the rest of GM continues to capsize and go under, proving them woefully wrong.

i see now. i just didn't really see the analogy as drakkie put it..
Still, at least they're making some driver's cars, and they're slowly pulling the rest into line (if they put the zeta platforms back in action...)

[Rockefella]

If I understood it right the EPA (or whoever decides this things) is going to minimum average mileages which the car companies range of products will have to met. It's been said that this is average is going to be 34mpg. As a result GM wants to scrap almost entirely their plan of rear driven Zeta-based cars, cars which will be much easier to make met the average that's going to be set than this probably gas guzzling monster.

And yet they confirm this which isn't going to help the average at all, and can the others which if made well shouldn't harm the average.

I can certainly see the irony, more when the two announcements came shorlty one after the other. I'm not suprised that the american auto industry isn't going all that well.

I still think you fail to understand the numbers involved.

ZO6 Blue Devil: roughly 1500 cars
RWD Platform: 50+ thousand

When taking into account averages, 50,000+ cars will lower that average much more heavily than a small run of uber-corvettes. Plus, the Blue Devil will throw GM some much needed profit, hopefully.

[Ferrer]

I still think you fail to understand the numbers involved.

ZO6 Blue Devil: roughly 1500 cars
RWD Platform: 50+ thousand

When taking into account averages, 50,000+ cars will lower that average much more heavily than a small run of uber-corvettes. Plus, the Blue Devil will throw GM some much needed profit, hopefully.
I might be wrong, but isn't the average made out of the range of cars, not of the cars sold?

(That's why I made my reasoning)

[drakkie]

Plus, the Blue Devil will throw GM some much needed profit, hopefully.

Do you have any idea of the development costs for a new model ? Either they have to make a HUGE profit on these car (think 50.000$-ish) which they never can do because of promotion costs, build costs and too expensive labour, or they will have to spend money on it and get a useless car that only creates a better image for their company as well as a bigger problem on the balance sheet...

As should go for anyone, you first need to get the finances right on beforehand, before you start spending. Somethin my mate also learned now, with his 30k debt...

[Ferrer]

As should go for anyone, you first need to get the finances right on beforehand, before you start spending. Somethin my mate also learned now, with his 30k debt...
But in the car auto industry you can't get your finances right if you're not sellings cars. And to sell cars you have to have good cars. And to have good cars you have to invest. Which means spending money.

[baddabang]

Fap fap fap fap fap fap fap.

*Waits patiently to make eleventy billion Blue Devil avatars*

[my porsche]

Funny, most Corvettes I see are driven by the middle aged, hair-turning-white, midlife crisis-having, left the wife for the secretary male.

Eh that's the other 40%. As you can see, neither is a very pleasing image to have associated with the Corvette. :p

[my porsche]

On the other hand canceling their line of rear driven US cars because they couldn't met minimum gas mileages and then announcing this makes no sense at all.
Japanese cars generally get great gas mileage. Agreed? Good.

How many RWD Japanese cars do you see? I can't think of any except presumably Lexus and some of the larger SUV's like the Toyota Land Cruiser. Other than that, they are all (AFAIK) FWD. Maybe there's a connection between FWD and MPG.

[cmcpokey]

the connection is you cant fit a v8 up front sideways very easily. so they usually stick with I4 and V6s, bringing their average way up. they also have a history of making small engines and as such have more experience and gan make them better.

[Ferrer]

Japanese cars generally get great gas mileage. Agreed? Good.

How many RWD Japanese cars do you see? I can't think of any except presumably Lexus and some of the larger SUV's like the Toyota Land Cruiser. Other than that, they are all (AFAIK) FWD. Maybe there's a connection between FWD and MPG.
There isn't. FWD appeared in the 60's/70's in small cars to benefit packaging and interior space, and also to do with cost since it meant that manufacturers no longer needed complicated rear suspensions and transmissions, a bit like rear drive rear engine layout of so many small european cars of the 50's but turned 180º. The thing is gas mileages has a lot to do with the engine under the bonnet, and you can fit whatever you want (and fits) under the bonnet. It's not Zeta's fault (or rear driven cars for that matter) if GM wants to fit almost only big V8's in it. For the record BMWs are some of the most frugal cars in their class (including generalist brands) and they are rear wheel drive.

the connection is you cant fit a v8 up front sideways very easily. so they usually stick with I4 and V6s, bringing their average way up. they also have a history of making small engines and as such have more experience and gan make them better.
Yes but while you can't fit easily big engines transversally mounted in the front, you most definitely can fit small and efficient engines under the bonnet of longitudinally mounted rear driven cars. See BMW example above. So it's not really an excuse for GM.

[Coventrysucks]

Jealousy is a smelly cologne my friend.

I'm not saying it is a bad car, but I am pointing out that the Blue Devil will merely play into the hands of America-fanboys.

It's a distraction: "Look how great we are!" shouts GM, to be echoed by 12yr olds across the nation, whilst the reality is that GM only has 1 car that anyone is interested in.


The ZO6 is a great car.. not much else to say about it

Not much use having a "great" car that you'll sell 1500 of when you need 10 or 15 "great" cars across the range.


As well as the 8C does and I don't think you're complaining for it.

Alfa's image is predominantly tilted toward "sporty" with GTA versions, the GT and the Brera & Spider pretending to be sports cars; not to mention a renowned heritage in F1 and sportscars. The 8C fits in more with that range than a Super-Vette in a range of Daewoos.

[Ferrer]

Alfa's image is predominantly tilted toward "sporty" with GTA versions, the GT and the Brera & Spider pretending to be sports cars; not to mention a renowned heritage in F1 and sportscars. The 8C fits in more with that range than a Super-Vette in a range of Daewoos.
You are right in most of what you say, but the Corvette also has a +50 year heritage, and we as petrolheads should welcome it in my opinion.

On the other hand I'm not saying this is a good decision from the bussiness point of view, as you can see in my other posts.

[Quiggs]

If I understood it right the EPA (or whoever decides this things) is going to minimum average mileages which the car companies range of products will have to met. It's been said that this is average is going to be 34mpg. As a result GM wants to scrap almost entirely their plan of rear driven Zeta-based cars, cars which will be much easier to make met the average that's going to be set than this probably gas guzzling monster.

And yet they confirm this which isn't going to help the average at all, and can the others which if made well shouldn't harm the average.

The Blue Devil project is much further along than the Zeta cars were. At this point, it would have been a huge waste of R&D money not to put the BD out.

[Ferrer]

The Blue Devil project is much further along than the Zeta cars were. At this point, it would have been a huge waste of R&D money not to put the BD out.
Well in fact a lot of money has been put into the Zeta platform too, so much that the Camaro is reaching production too.

What I don't understand is, sharing platforms makes sense economy wise, and with this new line of rear driven cars platform sharing would be applied and therefore would be beneficial for GM, more than developping their line of full size cars on a brand new front wheel drive platform.

Or are they going to cancel the Impala and the other big cars altogether?

[drakkie]

But in the car auto industry you can't get your finances right if you're not sellings cars. And to sell cars you have to have good cars. And to have good cars you have to invest. Which means spending money.

How logical is it then to build a good car that will never be profitable and knowing it in advance !

[Ferrer]

How logical is it then to build a good car that will never be profitable and knowing it in advance !
Do we know for sure it won't be profitable?

If that is the case, all comes down to image.

[Quiggs]

Most halo cars aren't profitable for the manufacturer. They're there to showcase your abilities and get people's attention.

[Ferrer]

Most halo cars aren't profitable for the manufacturer. They're there to showcase your abilities and get people's attention.
Yes but this being a faster Corvette leads to believe that this might actually be profitable, or that at least it won't generate loses.

[NSXType-R]

How exactly does a "Porsche and Ferrari" beating supercar fit in with a range of insipid FWD econo-boxes and glutinous SUVs?

Still, at least fanboys will have something to shout about and claim how America makes the best cars because of the wonderful skid-pan results, whilst the rest of GM continues to capsize and go under, proving them woefully wrong.


If I understood it right the EPA (or whoever decides this things) is going to minimum average mileages which the car companies range of products will have to met. It's been said that this is average is going to be 34mpg. As a result GM wants to scrap almost entirely their plan of rear driven Zeta-based cars, cars which will be much easier to make met the average that's going to be set than this probably gas guzzling monster.

And yet they confirm this which isn't going to help the average at all, and can the others which if made well shouldn't harm the average.

I can certainly see the irony, more when the two announcements came shorlty one after the other. I'm not suprised that the american auto industry isn't going all that well.

Don't get me wrong, I love this car even if probably we'll never see it, but the above certainly makes me think.

As well as the 8C does and I don't think you're complaining for it.

Yeah, I agree with the both of you. Does GM have the money to waste on a supercar? I think not. The bean counters have gone crazy and this decision is one of the many that bites it in the ass in the future.

[NSXType-R]

Alfa's image is predominantly tilted toward "sporty" with GTA versions, the GT and the Brera & Spider pretending to be sports cars; not to mention a renowned heritage in F1 and sportscars. The 8C fits in more with that range than a Super-Vette in a range of Daewoos.

I know it's off topic but aren't Alfas on the heavy side now?


Well in fact a lot of money has been put into the Zeta platform too, so much that the Camaro is reaching production too.

What I don't understand is, sharing platforms makes sense economy wise, and with this new line of rear driven cars platform sharing would be applied and therefore would be beneficial for GM, more than developping their line of full size cars on a brand new front wheel drive platform.

Or are they going to cancel the Impala and the other big cars altogether?

Yeah, isn't the Pontiac G8 on the new RWD platform? It's already planned so I don't think they'll miss out on the big RWD sedans. It's just that the Blue Devil is not the best of moves for a ship that's fast sinking.

[clutch-monkey]

The Blue Devil project is much further along than the Zeta cars were. At this point, it would have been a huge waste of R&D money not to put the BD out.
...but some of the zeta cars are already in production :confused:

[Coventrysucks]

Does GM have the money to waste on a supercar?

They are not "wasting" money on the project; it should make a comparatively large chunk of profit.

It is the resources that are seemingly misused.

If they have a secret team of boy-wonders that made a good car in the Corvette - shouldn't those people be busy making the next Chevrolet Patriotic-Nonsense a good car too?

If they have people capable of making a car that can outfox a Porsche somewhere; why are they making that car capable of outfoxing a slightly different Porsche when the Chevrolet Miscellaneous American Mountain Range can't outfox a ham sandwich?

So; they can make an Earth-shattering V8?

Everyone already knew that: get to work on the 4 and 6 cyl versions.

[NSXType-R]

They are not "wasting" money on the project; it should make a comparatively large chunk of profit.

It is the resources that are seemingly misused.

If they have a secret team of boy-wonders that made a good car in the Corvette - shouldn't those people be busy making the next Chevrolet Patriotic-Nonsense a good car too?

If they have people capable of making a car that can outfox a Porsche somewhere; why are they making that car capable of outfoxing a slightly different Porsche when the Chevrolet Miscellaneous American Mountain Range can't outfox a ham sandwich?

So; they can make an Earth-shattering V8?

Everyone already knew that: get to work on the 4 and 6 cyl versions.

Too bad this one is going to be built in so low numbers that they won't be able to make a decent profit on it.

You're right, the efficiency of their engines aren't exactly earth shattering.

[Slicks]

Maybe with this one they can make the interior decent and charge enough to rid it of the chest wig and gold chain beer gulping douche bag image most corvettes have.

You seem to confusing Ferrari and BMW owners with Corvette owners...

[2ndclasscitizen]

Japanese cars generally get great gas mileage. Agreed? Good.

How many RWD Japanese cars do you see? I can't think of any except presumably Lexus and some of the larger SUV's like the Toyota Land Cruiser. Other than that, they are all (AFAIK) FWD. Maybe there's a connection between FWD and MPG.

All Lexus', All Infinitis IIRC, the entire Skyline model range. The connection is high quality automotive engineering, high levels of engine management and valvetrain technology and extremely efficent small engines = great economy.

[my porsche]

You seem to confusing Ferrari and BMW owners with Corvette owners...
No, I'm not. Ferrari owners are complete douche bags also, but that doesn't mean Corvette owners aren't.

[adrenaline]

Well in fact a lot of money has been put into the Zeta platform too, so much that the Camaro is reaching production too.

What I don't understand is, sharing platforms makes sense economy wise, and with this new line of rear driven cars platform sharing would be applied and therefore would be beneficial for GM, more than developping their line of full size cars on a brand new front wheel drive platform.

Or are they going to cancel the Impala and the other big cars altogether?

The Zeta platform is an Australian project which was completed a while ago. All GM need to do is build cars on it. But GM say that they don't know how to improve fuel efficiency of the large RWD cars - which is why they are on 'pause' for the moment. They are not definitely canceled - they've just been put on ice. The Camaro project is too far along to halt development. And there is so much hype behind it that it would be idiotic to cancel it.

[fpv_gtho]

With displacement on demand and access to various V6's, as well as the typical program-the-auto-to-shift-straight-to-4th gear methods theyve employed in Corvettes and the such, if they still need confirmation for the economy requirements then theyre in trouble.

[Ferrer]

The Zeta platform is an Australian project which was completed a while ago. All GM need to do is build cars on it. But GM say that they don't know how to improve fuel efficiency of the large RWD cars - which is why they are on 'pause' for the moment. They are not definitely canceled - they've just been put on ice. The Camaro project is too far along to halt development. And there is so much hype behind it that it would be idiotic to cancel it.
Yes that's what I meant to say. But GM saying that they don't know how to improve fuel efficiency on large rear wheel drive cars sounds like a bad excuse to me, if they still want to have large cars at all in their range.

[scubasteve87]

I think the "we're not going to build em'" is a cry for help to congress, Lutz is hoping by saying that he can't keep his company viable, they'll lower the standards to save GM money and keep the auto industry alive. As for the vette, a company as large and enveloping as GM needs an icon, and they're building it, I don't remember hearing this much bitching when chrysler showed the mc-12 which was incredibly pointless.

[-What-]

No, I'm not. Ferrari owners are complete douche bags also, but that doesn't mean Corvette owners aren't.

Ferrari and Corvette owners are douche bags? Stereotyping fool. Stop jumping to conclusions.

[my porsche]

Ferrari and Corvette owners are douche bags? Stereotyping fool. Stop jumping to conclusions.
Oh please, open your eyes.

[baddabang]

Colin speaks for everyone on this subject -What- Unless you drive a RS6 your considered a douche bag.

[adrenaline]

Ferrari and Corvette owners are douche bags? Stereotyping fool. Stop jumping to conclusions.

I see that a moderator has edited your post - removing insults. May I refresh your memory:

I haven't come back to post, I've come back to apologize to anyone who was offended by my comments. I'm sorry. I'm on a mission to change my life, and I feel like I should apologize to any and everyone whom I could have hurt. Once again, I'm sorry. I wish you all good luck.

I was a previous member, and many deemed me to be rude.

Contact mission control - let them know you have failed ;)

[fpv_gtho]

I think the "we're not going to build em'" is a cry for help to congress, Lutz is hoping by saying that he can't keep his company viable, they'll lower the standards to save GM money and keep the auto industry alive. As for the vette, a company as large and enveloping as GM needs an icon, and they're building it, I don't remember hearing this much bitching when chrysler showed the mc-12 which was incredibly pointless.

Wasnt the MC-12 only a concept though?

[Ferrer]

Wasnt the MC-12 only a concept though?
The question should be, wasn't the MC12 a Maserati? :D

The Chrysler concept car was the ME4-12.

[Wouter Melissen]

The Chrysler concept car was the ME4-12.

And that was only a rebodied Pagani.

[digitalcraft]

It wasn't really a rebodied Pagani. Pagani did help with the design, but to be fair, the Zonda uses an AMG made engine.

[fpv_gtho]

Thanks Ferrer

It couldve been cardboard underneath, it still was only a concept car.

[roosterjuicer]

ZR-1 charged less for about the same amount of power

what?!!!! zr1 was very expensive for its time and had 405 hp nothing even close to the z06 or the blue devil.

[aNOBLEman]

It wasn't really a rebodied Pagani. Pagani did help with the design, but to be fair, the Zonda uses an AMG made engine.

Ummm...Unless I'm mistaken the ME4-12 used an engine made by AMG as well. ;)

[my porsche]

Colin speaks for everyone on this subject -What- Unless you drive a RS6 your considered a douche bag.

Agreed, so, moving on, any "artists renderings" yet?

[Pando]

RWD sedans seem to be more popular now, thats why chrysler built the 300 and chargerIt can also be turned around - RWD sedans are popular due to the success of the 300...

Maybe there's a connection between FWD and MPG....or build quality and MPG! :eek:

I know it's off topic but aren't Alfas on the heavy side now?Not to sound pessimistic, but what brand hasn't taken that direction these days? :o

[Kitdy]

Too bad this one is going to be built in so low numbers that they won't be able to make a decent profit on it.

You're right, the efficiency of their engines aren't exactly earth shattering.

Define efficiency. In hp/L? Hell no, but what use is that statistic. In hp/kg? Hell yes, the Corvette engines, especially badda's beloved LS7 are some of the best especially if hp/kg/$ is inspected... I used to be a Corvette hater but I have since converted to see the value in America's simplistic "poor man's sportscar."

Engine (Car), hp/kg

F140 (2002 Enzo Ferrari) 1.33
F130 (1995 Ferrari F50) 1.17
LS7 (2007 Chevrolet Corvette) 1.10
AMG 6.3 (2007 CLK63 AMG) 1.08
S85B50 (2007 M5 and M6) 0.94

...Snap!

[VtecMini]

Engine (Car), hp/kg

F140 (2002 Enzo Ferrari) 1.33
F130 (1995 Ferrari F50) 1.17
LS7 (2007 Chevrolet Corvette) 1.10
AMG 6.3 (2007 CLK63 AMG) 1.08
S85B50 (2007 M5 and M6) 0.94

...Snap!Snap indeed. So by that measure, all the engines below are even better. Clearly one would be far better off with an S2000, given these figures. Or a Ford Mondeo. Or even an old Rover 200.

Ford Duratec 2.0L 1.16 bhp/kg
Honda S2000 2.0L 1.5 bhp/kg
Toyota 1.9 VVTi 1.3 bhp/kg
Standard K 1.8L 1.25 bhp/kg

:p

[Kitdy]

Snap indeed. So by that measure, all the engines below are even better. Clearly one would be far better off with an S2000, given these figures. Or a Ford Mondeo. Or even an old Rover 200.

Off da hook! :p

I am sure however that hp/kg efficiency decreases as the overall volume of the engine increases. That is, the larger the engine in L, the lower the ratio of hp/kg is relative to smaller volume engines. Phew.

Where did you get those stats and do you have the hp/kg of the RX-8's Wankel?

[Slicks]

Define efficiency. In hp/L? Hell no, but what use is that statistic. In hp/kg? Hell yes, the Corvette engines, especially badda's beloved LS7 are some of the best especially if hp/kg/$ is inspected... I used to be a Corvette hater but I have since converted to see the value in America's simplistic "poor man's sportscar."

Engine (Car), hp/kg

F140 (2002 Enzo Ferrari) 1.33
F130 (1995 Ferrari F50) 1.17
LS7 (2007 Chevrolet Corvette) 1.10
AMG 6.3 (2007 CLK63 AMG) 1.08
S85B50 (2007 M5 and M6) 0.94

...Snap!

Was it blinding when you first saw the light? ;)

[Slicks]

Snap indeed. So by that measure, all the engines below are even better. Clearly one would be far better off with an S2000, given these figures. Or a Ford Mondeo. Or even an old Rover 200.

Ford Duratec 2.0L 1.16 bhp/kg
Honda S2000 2.0L 1.5 bhp/kg
Toyota 1.9 VVTi 1.3 bhp/kg
Standard K 1.8L 1.25 bhp/kg

:p

Where did you get those weight figures from?
If I remember right, the S2Ks engine weighs 325lbs, and its making 240hp on a good day. So thats .73hp per pound, while the LS7 weighs roughly 440lbs fully dressed, so thats 1.15hp per pound...

[Kitdy]

Was it blinding when you first saw the light? ;)

Yes, very, very blinding. Though American cars are generally not my favourite, I have learned that the Corvette Z06, the upcoming Blue Devil / SS (I think they should call it the Corvette Stingray personally), and most importantly, the LS7 are all sick things.

Now who has stats on the 911 GT3's engine?

[Rockefella]

Where did you get those weight figures from?
If I remember right, the S2Ks engine weighs 325lbs, and its making 240hp on a good day. So thats .73hp per pound, while the LS7 weighs roughly 440lbs fully dressed, so thats 1.15hp per pound...

His references are in Kilograms. You're dealing with pounds Slicks.

325 lbs / 2.20462262 (kg to lbs conversion, from google) = 147.42 kg.

240 / 147.42 = 1.628. I understand these numbers may be off if the weight you posted is wrong, but.. yeah.

[kingofthering]

Not to sound pessimistic, but what brand hasn't taken that direction these days? :o

Lotus. :D

[Ferrer]

Lotus. :D
And even Lotuses are getting fatter and fatter with each generation... :(

[2ndclasscitizen]

And even Lotuses are getting fatter and fatter with each generation... :(

And guess what? Now they're a viable, profitable company that sells cars that lots of people want to buy and drive, maybe even everyday.

[Ferrer]

And guess what? Now they're a viable, profitable company that sells cars that lots of people want to buy and drive, maybe even everyday.
Are they? Why did Proton want to sell it then? And why has the Europa been labelled as completely rubbish?

If they are profitable I'm willing to bet that it is in no small part due to the engineering jobs...

[2ndclasscitizen]

Are they? Why did Proton want to sell it then? And why has the Europa been labelled as completely rubbish?Proton's going broke, so they're doing a Ford. And the Europa has been labelled as completely rubbish because it's tried to be a GT, but missing a lot of GT car essentials eg auto box, nice interior, lots of gadgets. etc.

[Kitdy]

His references are in Kilograms. You're dealing with pounds Slicks.

Pounds suck. Metric system for the win! (I am trying to convert myself to kW and N·m but it is proving hard)


Proton's going broke, so they're doing a Ford. And the Europa has been labelled as completely rubbish because it's tried to be a GT, but missing a lot of GT car essentials eg auto box, nice interior, lots of gadgets. etc.

If only the Elise (for my money, one of the ugliest cars on the road) had the Europa's body... Then the Europa bodied Elise would be my one of my dream cars! :)

[Coventrysucks]

Now they're a viable, profitable company that sells cars that lots of people want to buy and drive

In 2005/2006 Lotus made a loss of £7million, with a further £40million in debts written off by Proton.

Last year they sold about 4,000 cars. That would be a lot if they were charging £100,000 per car, but at c.25-35% of that price, it isn't that impressive.

[Pando]

Pounds suck. Metric system for the win! (I am trying to convert myself to kW and N·m but it is proving hard)Werd. Nm's aren't that bad, but I still have a hard time thinking in kW...

[Kitdy]

Werd. Nm's aren't that bad, but I still have a hard time thinking in kW...

It is just 3/4 and 4/3 to convert from hp and lb.-ft. respectively... easy to remember, hard to think in. Hell, I can only think and speak in one language - I have no idea how you non-english speakers frequent here! I can not even thikn in kilowatts and Newton metres!

[2ndclasscitizen]

If only the Elise (for my money, one of the ugliest cars on the road) had the Europa's body... Then the Europa bodied Elise would be my one of my dream cars! :)

The Europa is an Elise with a different body, engine and suspension tune.


In 2005/2006 Lotus made a loss of £7million, with a further £40million in debts written off by Proton.

Last year they sold about 4,000 cars. That would be a lot if they were charging £100,000 per car, but at c.25-35% of that price, it isn't that impressive.

Really? I thought they'd managed to make themselvs profitable. Oh well, my bad. Still, 4000 cars is probably a lot more than they'd sell if they just made lightweight, stripped out trackday specials.

[Kitdy]

The Europa is an Elise with a different body, engine and suspension tune.

I wonder if one could get a Europa and tune it up so that it's like an Elise again... I've only read negative things about it but that's only because it failed at what it tried to be a GT car and the elise was betetr as a track car thingy.

Were I to buy a Europa having never driven an Elise and not expecting a GT experience, I'd probably love it! :D

[Pando]

It is just 3/4 and 4/3 to convert from hp and lb.-ft. respectively... easy to remember, hard to think in. Hell, I can only think and speak in one language - I have no idea how you non-english speakers frequent here! I can not even thikn in kilowatts and Newton metres!We use magic.

Well it takes time. As with languages, the more you use it the easier it is. Besides you learn the languages first, to start thinking in them takes time.

Aren't you taught foreign languages in school btw?

[The_Canuck]

We use magic.

Well it takes time. As with languages, the more you use it the easier it is. Besides you learn the languages first, to start thinking in them takes time.

Aren't you taught foreign languages in school btw?


Only French, (from Grade 4-9) and after Grade 9 it's optional.

[Pando]

Only French, (from Grade 4-9) and after Grade 9 it's optional.So in theory every Canadian should know French in the same way that every Finn should know Swedish...

[Slicks]

His references are in Kilograms. You're dealing with pounds Slicks.

325 lbs / 2.20462262 (kg to lbs conversion, from google) = 147.42 kg.

240 / 147.42 = 1.628. I understand these numbers may be off if the weight you posted is wrong, but.. yeah.

I know he was posting in KG, but thats not going to change anything when both are weighed in pounds...
Maybe the LS7 specs are wrong then: 440lbs = 200kg.
505hp/220kg = 2.525...

[The_Canuck]

So in theory every Canadian should know French in the same way that every Finn should know Swedish...

Well in theory sure. But I didn't take it past grade 9 because I personally wasn't learning much. It just isn't interesting or taught very well imo.

[sicilian973-2]

BLUE DEVIL is gonna blow.

[2ndclasscitizen]

I wonder if one could get a Europa and tune it up so that it's like an Elise again... I've only read negative things about it but that's only because it failed at what it tried to be a GT car and the elise was betetr as a track car thingy.

Were I to buy a Europa having never driven an Elise and not expecting a GT experience, I'd probably love it! :D

Yeah it'd be easy, just replace/retune the springs, shocks and roll bars to the same spec as the Elise.

[clutch-monkey]

BLUE DEVIL is gonna blow.
forced induction does blow air, yes

[The_Canuck]

BLUE DEVIL is gonna blow.

Like modern Ferraris?

[Pando]

Well in theory sure. But I didn't take it past grade 9 because I personally wasn't learning much. It just isn't interesting or taught very well imo.It's a shame really. It's usually only later in life that one starts to regret not paying attention. For instance I had French lessons for three years that I really don't remember much of anymore. It's sad to think that I could easily be speaking two more languages fluently by now if I would've bothered back then.

[Ferrer]

It's a shame really. It's usually only later in life that one starts to regret not paying attention. For instance I had French lessons for three years that I really don't remember much of anymore. It's sad to think that I could easily be speaking two more languages fluently by now if I would've bothered back then.
I did French years ago too when I was in school, and while I don't speak it I can understand it.

[Pando]

I did French years ago too when I was in school, and while I don't speak it I can understand it.
Unfortunately with languages, among other things, one would have to use them regularly to not forget them. - Así las respuestas ocasionales en español. ;)

[sicilian973-2]

Like modern Ferraris?

you are a comedian.how do they suck,just asking.leading research institute(it's officially not Volkswagen AG) in the auto industry makes sucky cars,right:rolleyes:

[Vaigra]

you are a comedian.how do they suck,just asking.leading research institute(it's officially not Volkswagen AG) in the auto industry makes sucky cars,right:rolleyes:
One of the rules of UCP is that you must speak in english that everybody will understand. If you can't learn simple grammatical rules I don't think you'll be around long.

[Coventrysucks]

you are a comedian.how do they suck,just asking.leading research institute(it's officially not Volkswagen AG) in the auto industry makes sucky cars,right:rolleyes:

Maybe he deduced the fact that Ferrari "sucks" from the same information that led you to the conclusion that the Blue Devil will "blow"?

[Kitdy]

It's a shame really. It's usually only later in life that one starts to regret not paying attention. For instance I had French lessons for three years that I really don't remember much of anymore. It's sad to think that I could easily be speaking two more languages fluently by now if I would've bothered back then.

Yes it is a shame. As Canuck alluded to, every Canadian should be able to speak both English and French - but it seems more likely that Quebecers speak both languages than the rest of Canada. I never liked French class but I regret not learning the language better - I really like Quebec and would love to be able to visit there and speak French of even be able to speak French at all! It is a pretty damn popular language!

See though Pando, it is not taught well here and us North Americans are lazy. I think that if French is gonna be taught it should be taught from kindergarden up so that it actually has effect - maybe all the way to grade 12 even. I assume you can speak at least three languages then? Finnish, Swedish and English? That is amazing. I can hardly speak one.

[Coventrysucks]

I can hardly speak one.

You can barely speak one.

;)

[Kitdy]

You can barely speak one.

;)

If I were to speak in non-slang english all the time you would all be blown away by gramatical correctosity.

[Vaigra]

If I were to speak in non-slang english all the time you would all be blown away by gramatical correctosity.
I already am.

[Kitdy]

I already am.

Dankjewel, danke schön. See? Speak the freshest three languages.

[Pando]

See though Pando, it is not taught well here and us North Americans are lazy. I think that if French is gonna be taught it should be taught from kindergarden up so that it actually has effect - maybe all the way to grade 12 even. I assume you can speak at least three languages then? Finnish, Swedish and English? That is amazing. I can hardly speak one.It's not just you North Americans that are lazy. As I said Finns should know Swedish, yet it's not easy to find one that does. Especially if you leave the coastal area. I should be speaking fluent French and German by now. I don't.

The difference between our countries on that aspect is the magnitude of the languages. I've been fortunate to have had a bilingual upbringing. But the countries one can get along only using Finnish and Swedish can be counted on one hand. Thus learning one or more of the world languages is a logical next step for us here.

I've given other languages a go since then, but it seems like only Spanish has stuck with me. The only problem is that while I hear and use English daily, I have to struggle to find situations to practice my Spanish. But on the other hand at least I have a valid reason to chat up the Señoritas I come across here.

I will by the way become the uncle (man that sounds old) of a half German kid in about a week. I promised myself I'll learn German so he/she can't talk crap behind my back later on. They've planned to send that kid to a Finnish-German school and they'll speak Swedish/German at home and Finnish/Swedish/German with all the relatives. So that's three languages the kid will learn easily and English isn't even one of them. :rolleyes:

[hightower99]

Talk about multilingual:

Here in denmark 40% of the danes are fluent in 5 languages (Danish, English, Swedish, German, Norwegian). If you drop norwegian and german you are talking about over 80% of danes who are trilingual :eek:

me I am just a canadian living here so I am fluent in english and danish and capable of a spattering of french.

next language to conquer: Japanese! (supposedly easier than it looks?).

[Pando]

Talk about multilingual:

Here in denmark 40% of the danes are fluent in 5 languages (Danish, English, Swedish, German, Norwegian). If you drop norwegian and german you are talking about over 80% of danes who are trilingual :eek:Well, that's not exactly true... Most Danes might be able to understand written Swedish, Danish and Norwegian but there's a big difference between that and being fluent. (Or else I could add Norwegian, Danish and Estonian to my languages :rolleyes: ) I'd say most Danes, as most inhabitants of the other Nordic countries, are bi- or trilingual.
me I am just a canadian living here so I am fluent in english and danish and capable of a spattering of french.

next language to conquer: Japanese! (supposedly easier than it looks?).From what I've heard once you get over the completely different structure, grammar and of course the symbols Japanese is quite logical. I'm trying to conquer Korean myself, only problem is that it's not available at my school or the university of Helsinki. :(