Ferrari 308 N/A 400 Hp? Really???

[LandQuail]

I learned while covering a car show for the local paper about a guy who claims to specialize in exotic/high-end cars.

He was there with a 1985 Ferrari 308 which he claimed to have tuned to make "a dyno'd 400 horsepower" from its rebuilt, all-alloy 3-liter V8.

How in the **** is this possible? I know it was no standard 308 mill, because when he fired it up it was positively buzzing... very, VERY high compression ratio at work, but 400 hp out of a 3-liter on pump gas???

That's difficult to believe.

I do know it had QV cylinder heads and the owner is the former CEO of Winrock International (more ****ing money than Santa Claus) so whatever happened to this 308, it couldn't have been cheap.

Can this be the truth? Even measured at the flywheel?

I'll try to get a picture of the car on the thread early tomorrow.
Chüs!

[Ferrer]

Well for your info Group 4 308's with 2-valve heads made about 310bhp. And the Group B QV about 300bhp. So any case there are still 90-100bhp lacking. Altough if I'm not mistaken the 3.5-litre V8 from the 355 was still related to the original 3-litre V8, and that made 380bhp.

[P4g4nite]

Are you certain it is pump fuel?

Super high compression and very non-standard ignition timing doesn't sound healthy on pump fuel.

[LandQuail]

As far as I'm certain the dude wasn't lying when he said it was...

The reason I'm so curious is that this guy could do some work on my Mercedes 380 SL — if he's not a full-of-shit blowhard. (This is Arkansas, and people who could are few and far between.)

A claimed 400 horse 3-liter doesn't earn him any kudos in that department...

[P4g4nite]

With modern management, good fuel and attention to induction detail I don't think 133bhp/L is out of the bounds of reality.
The basic geometry of the engine shouldn't be holding it back too much, it's just the fuel I'd question.

[Pinto_PT]

Even with old style fuel management I think it is possible.

A Fiat 128 Berlina, with only 1148cc, had circa 135hp@9400rpm in race spec with twin webers.
With a Lucas fuel injection (still mechanical, I believe), the same engine delivered an amazing 160hp...

And then there's the 3K-R Toyota engine that powered the small KP61 in N2-spec. 1.3L, 16 valves, ITBs and an astonishing 180hp@10500rpm!

With the correct amount of money, I'm sure it's possible.

P.S.:Starlet N2 Race (http://youtube.com/watch?v=_Q_0o3O5ZU4&mode=related&search=)

3K-R photos:

[charged]

Top Video, pretty good hp from a humble 3k block,

also the 4age 1.6 litre in the Forumula Atlantic used to make 240hp:eek:

[sicilian973-2]

well Ferrari make a living off of high comression N/a engines.why is it hard to believe? Thats like not believing that Porsche makes turbos.

[Cyco]

why is it hard to believe?

Because:
1) Its not a stock Ferrari engine
2) The stock engine never made anything like that
3) Its more specific power than Ferrari has ever been able to extract from a road engine
4) To do this would normally cause stock US fuel to pre-ignite (as its poor quality) - pump 130 AvGas would be a totally different story though

Why would you find it easy to believe?

[Ferrer]

Even with old style fuel management I think it is possible.

A Fiat 128 Berlina, with only 1148cc, had circa 135hp@9400rpm in race spec with twin webers.
With a Lucas fuel injection (still mechanical, I believe), the same engine delivered an amazing 160hp...

And then there's the 3K-R Toyota engine that powered the small KP61 in N2-spec. 1.3L, 16 valves, ITBs and an astonishing 180hp@10500rpm!

With the correct amount of money, I'm sure it's possible.

P.S.:Starlet N2 Race (http://youtube.com/watch?v=_Q_0o3O5ZU4&mode=related&search=)

3K-R photos:
I'd like to see those engines run in our regular 95 octane petrol... ;)

[Pinto_PT]

I'd like to see those engines run in our regular 95 octane petrol... ;)
Good point... :rolleyes:

[taz_rocks_miami]

Did you take a look under the bonnet? It could have a turbo or even a supercharger on it. :confused:

[092326001]

maybe he just lied about the output?

[charged]

I'd like to see those engines run in our regular 95 octane petrol... ;)

Id definetley say no:D , not to many high comp engines can, Im sure even a stock 3l V8 fezza would require a fair bit of octane booster. Any comp over 11.1 would need it without a knock sensor

[henk4]

http://www.ferraris-online.com/pages/carintro.php?reqcardir=FE-308M-22409

Here it is said that the engine can be tuned up to 400 BHP.....Sheehan is not just somebody, so there might be an element of truth in there.
The standard 308 Michelottos got about 315 BHP with Kugelfisher fuel injection.

[Ferrer]

http://www.ferraris-online.com/pages/carintro.php?reqcardir=FE-308M-22409

Here it is said that the engine can be tuned up to 400 BHP.....Sheehan is not just somebody, so there might be an element of truth in there.
The standard 308 Michelottos got about 315 BHP with Kugelfisher fuel injection.
I'm not saying I don't believe it, but I'd like to know in which condtions this engine would be producing 400bhp.

[LandQuail]

It was definitely naturally aspirated, and fuel-injected. I've seen pictures the guy took during the build since my last post, and he built the car from a stripped bodyshell...

Custom cast aluminum control arms, limited-slip diff, a host of custom-machined or racing engine internals, drilled Brembo brakes (looks like almost the same setup as my STi!), extensive chassis triangulation and titanium stiffening, coilovers, F-355 seats, etc.

It's very, very ****ing impressive, if this old Quail's book, and it all adds up to a 308 with 288 GTO performance, A.K.A., a 360-chaser.

And a better looker than anything Ferrari's produced since, ITQHO, even if it is a denatured Fiat.

So, maybe it's more like 375hp. At this point, after talking with the builder for a few hours, I don't even care. It's still easily the most thouroughly fettled streetable 308 I've ever heard of, and it lives in Arkansas.

Suck it.