Lamborghini LP640 Superveloce

[Kitdy]

Huh. If anyone saw pics of that strange looking Murcielago running around the Nürburgring a few days/weeks ago, here's the news from Car Magazine Online (http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/secret_new_car.php?sid=727&page=1) via Autoblog (http://www.autoblog.com/2007/05/23/its-true-lightweight-lamborghini-lp640-to-arrive-as-supervelo/) (Text from Autoblog):


First there were pictures of a Murcielago with black doors and a giant wing doing laps at the 'Ring. It was immediately called out as the next evolution of the LP640, a superleggera sibling for the the Gallardo. Then Lamborghini said no, it wasn't -- it was just a mule with unpainted doors. Lamborghini President Stephan Winklemann even dismissed the idea, saying "The LP640 is wild enough." Whether or not he believed what he was saying, the new reality is this: there is no such thing as wild enough. And according to Car magazine, that wilder LP640 will probably be called "Superveloce" -- the sorely missed SV moniker not heard in these parts in far too long.

The SV will lose 100 kg, the same amount shed by the lightweight Gallardo, ending up with 409 bhp per ton. It will also get shorter gearing that keeps it near the 8,000 rpm mark when driven in anger. Even though it will remain an all-wheel-driver, the 0-60 time should drop to 3.0 seconds. Car also says that that walk-the-plank rear wing is supposedly provided by Boeing.

The SV is expected to hit the runway at Frankfurt this September. Oh, and it could be joined by a Gallardo SV, an even harder baby-Lambo meant to take the fight to the F430 Stradale. The good news from Sant' Agata just keeps on coming.

I think this is a truly excting car. With a very high power to weight ratio and it being a sheer massive car, this could be really cool and with a 0-100km/h time of 3.0 seconds it looks like the gap between the Veyron/UltimaGTR's 2.5/2.6 sprint to 100 km/h and the 911 turbo's 3.3 second dash is starting to be filled.

This will give some more credibility to Lamborghini I think as a real supercar manufacturer and bulilder of driver's cars as opposed to being makers of oversized, fast fashion statements (albeit the sexiest fashion statement to me - the Murcielago is probably my favourite car design ever; sucks to that Ferrer).

What do you guys think?

EDIT: Added pics

[The_Canuck]

Love it!

[Kitdy]

Love it!

It's like an R-GT for the street! I am kinda split on the wing though, and those black doors. - I jest.

[The_Canuck]

they should make it look like the R-GT, also with 800hp, Probably not roadlegal but who cares.

[Turbo.Jenkens]

This will give some more credibility to Lamborghini I think as a real supercar manufacturer and bulilder of driver's cars as opposed to being makers of oversized, fast fashion statements.
EDIT: Added pics


To achieve that "credibility" they need to take a car to Le Mans & win in GT1.

[Kitdy]

they should make it look like the R-GT, also with 800hp, Probably not roadlegal but who cares.

The R-GT has 800 hp? Sick. It's in the FIA Sportscar series right?

[The_Canuck]

The R-GT has 800 hp? Sick. It's in the FIA Sportscar series right?

I don't know, I just meant the road car should have 800. :D

[NSXType-R]

Looks good. I like the extra power, but people are going to crash this left and right, considering rich people can't seem to handle the LP 640 as it is. I like it anyway though. :p

Going back to the 911 Turbo 0-60 time, it's probably faster than that. Porsche usually underestimates things.

[fisetdavid26]

I love it. The spoiler + rear flaps make the car look like... erm... a Boeing! I can't wait to see it in its final iteration. Now that the SV moniker is back, I wonder if Victoria's Secret is going to paint one crystal white and put seven beauties all around. In that case, <3 Raging Bull.

[Kitdy]

To achieve that "credibility" they need to take a car to Le Mans & win in GT1.

Hey hey now, I didn;t say that this would give them that credibility, I said it'd give them some credibility.


I don't know, I just meant the road car should have 800. :D

I despise you.

The R-GT - I remember reading - got it's maiden victory this year in what I have learned is called the FIA GT Championship. This begs the question - why aren't the cars in this series just raced in the Le Mans Series races in the GT1 and GT2 categories? Why a whole different series?

[Cotterik]

LP640 with a stupid spoiler? it looks ridiculous.

not to mention it goes against the murc's sleek lines that have never depended on a spoiler. I hope its form<function. Rather than brains<form

[Kitdy]

Looks good. I like the extra power, but people are going to crash this left and right, considering rich people can't seem to handle the LP 640 as it is. I like it anyway though. :p

Going back to the 911 Turbo 0-60 time, it's probably faster than that. Porsche usually underestimates things.

The 3.3 second time was independently tested by Road and Track a few months ago, the automatic version edging out the manual by a tenth; the only example of a automatic version beating a standard that I know.

[The_Canuck]

Why a whole different series?

Because they couldn't win?

[Kitdy]

Because they couldn't win?

No no. The FIA GT championship has every car in the Le Mans series BUT the Maserati MC12 and the R-GT. The 'vettes, DBR9's, F430's and 911 RSR's are all there.

Confusing. Probably some rules bullcrap.

[F1_Master]

The R-GT entered, I think, 1 ALMS race, but didn't do very well. The JLOC team of Japan though, managed to open last year's season with a win in its class.

As for this, I believe the power will remain 640Bhp from what I hear. This will also probably go backwards if it called the SV since the SV of the '90s was actually $10,000 cheaper than the VT, meaning the SV was Lamborghini's entry model of the 1990's.

This 'SV' will probably also remain AWD unlike the previous SVs who went RWD. This also means it'll be the first Lamborghini to mix Viscous Traction with SV since all Diablo VTs were AWD (Viscous Traction is Lambo.'s AWD system).

I suppose I'd have to hear more info though.
As for a Gallardo SV, that'd have to go against something else. Stephan W. has already told the press the main purpose of the Superleggera was to be the F430 CS's rival.

[NSXType-R]

The 3.3 second time was independently tested by Road and Track a few months ago, the automatic version edging out the manual by a tenth; the only example of a automatic version beating a standard that I know.

Okay, nevermind then. ;)

[baddabang]

http://www.orangecountyshopping.com/whale-tale-big-fluke.jpg
http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=244305&d=1179964605

Look Twins!!!

Seriously though that spoiler has to go.

[ScionDriver]

Man I like it but only dropping 100 kg? That doesnt seem like much considering how heavy the car is, but still 0-60 in about 3.0 is outstanding. Although the rear wing is big, I think it still flows well with the car. Overall its good to see Lambo hasent lost their craziness.

[2ndclasscitizen]

Man I like it but only dropping 100 kg? That doesnt seem like much considering how heavy the car is, but still 0-60 in about 3.0 is outstanding. Although the rear wing is big, I think it still flows well with the car. Overall its good to see Lambo hasent lost their craziness.

Anymore than 100kg and you'd be moving into stripped out tracjday craziness, CS style. That's all the Gallardo Superleggera lost and it's still got a reasonable interior.

[aNOBLEman]

I like it right now, but if they would make the vertical parts of the wing out farther instead of in the middle it would look a lot better in my opinion.

[The_Canuck]

I'd like to point out I typed "love it!" before the pics....

[scubasteve87]

Pure insanity, lambo has shed the shackles of audidom and is back to being ridiculous, i'm in love all over again...

[Turbo.Jenkens]

The R-GT entered, I think, 1 ALMS race

They ran some ALMS races in 2004 can't remember how many, but it wasn't a full season. I did see them at Road Atlanta that year. They started strong, but by the end of the race they were sucking wind. I remember the ancient carsport america viper & most or the GT Porches finished better.

[Turbo.Jenkens]

The spoiler is hideous for a road car. They can do much better.

[Ferrer]

This will give some more credibility to Lamborghini I think as a real supercar manufacturer and bulilder of driver's cars as opposed to being makers of oversized, fast fashion statements (albeit the sexiest fashion statement to me - the Murcielago is probably my favourite car design ever; sucks to that Ferrer).

What do you guys think?
It's fine if a bit tame for a Lambo. :p

No in truth I like it, with the Zonda they are my favourite supercars. Altough I always thought that SV stood for Sprint Veloce... :confused:

The R-GT has 800 hp? Sick. It's in the FIA Sportscar series right?
No, probably about 600bhp due to the restrictors. And with works entries from Aston Martin or Chevrolet a half backed effort from a semi works team with an underdevelopped car is not going to cut it. Furthermore Lambos have never been about racing, mister Ferruccio himself was firmly against racing.

[Wouter Melissen]

They ran some ALMS races in 2004 can't remember how many, but it wasn't a full season. I did see them at Road Atlanta that year. They started strong, but by the end of the race they were sucking wind. I remember the ancient carsport america viper & most or the GT Porches finished better.

It took a FIA GT win earlier this year and again finished second this weekend in Romania. Taking a win at Le Mans is no so much about the car, but more about the team that prepares the car; there is no equal of Pratt & Miller today. Prodrive is the only one that gets close.

[Clivey]

The 3.3 second time was independently tested by Road and Track a few months ago, the automatic version edging out the manual by a tenth; the only example of a automatic version beating a standard that I know.

VAG's DSG system "beats" equivalent manuals for 0-60 times, as does the system Porsche are using in the 911, and that's just a start (It's always and because of the twin clutch system that these transmissions swap cogs faster). But 0-60 doesn't even tell the opening line of the story. I <3 Murcie LP640 Roadster + Manual.:cool:

[Ferrer]

VAG's DSG system "beats" equivalent manuals for 0-60 times, as does the system Porsche are using in the 911, and that's just a start (It's always and because of the twin clutch system that these transmissions swap cogs faster). But 0-60 doesn't even tell the opening line of the story. I <3 Murcie LP640 Roadster + Manual.:cool:
The automatic gearbox in the Porsche 911 Turbo has a conventional torque conveter arrangement and 5 gears only.

[ruim20]

The automatic gearbox in the Porsche 911 Turbo has a conventional torque conveter arrangement and 5 gears only.

Exactly, probably derived from VAG's Triptronic, i have no ideia...

Heard they where working on a DSG, but i'm not sure about the progress on that.

[ruim20]

VAG's DSG system "beats" equivalent manuals for 0-60 times, as does the system Porsche are using in the 911, and that's just a start (It's always and because of the twin clutch system that these transmissions swap cogs faster). But 0-60 doesn't even tell the opening line of the story. I <3 Murcie LP640 Roadster + Manual.:cool:

I don't think it's beacause of swaping cogs, they are faster because they already have the next gear engaged and the only thing it has to do is losen one clutch and tighten the other, ence almost no loss of traction.

[Ingolstadt]

And it still amazes me that a Golf GTi changes gear with 8 milliseconds whereas an Enzo uses 150 milliseconds.

[Wouter Melissen]

How much does the DSG gearbox weigh? I think it might be quite a bit heavier than a conventional 'box.

[henk4]

And it still amazes me that a Golf GTi changes gear with 8 milliseconds whereas an Enzo uses 150 milliseconds.

just calculate the gains on the 1/4 mile:D

[Street_Dreamer]

I love it, good to see some new pictures and development moving on a little bit from last post. I can't be bothered to re-upload, so here are some more pictures

http://ultimatecarpage.com/forum/showpost.php?p=695450&postcount=1

I also understand that although the DSG is heavier than a normal box, it is not much heavier

[KFA-R]

It's like an R-GT for the street! I am kinda split on the wing though, and those black doors. - I jest.

i hope they are jus being lazy with the doors and the wing and leaving the carbon fibre paint free..... i am sure thats what the story is there

The spoiler is hideous for a road car. They can do much better.

perhaps this is the only thing keeping the ass on the ground but i agree they can do much much MUCH better.....come on someone look at the front of that car and do something like that only on the back


you know

[Ferrer]

Exactly, probably derived from VAG's Triptronic, i have no ideia...

Heard they where working on a DSG, but i'm not sure about the progress on that.
Actually I think Porsche's Tiptronic predates VAG's Tiptronic. The first Tiptronic was in the 964 and was a 4-speed auto. Since then they sold the design to other companies like VAG or PSA.

And on the DSG camp, Porsche was again first with what the called the PDK gearbox, which I think the 956 or 962 had. Audi also tried it on the Quattro Sport S1.

How much does the DSG gearbox weigh? I think it might be quite a bit heavier than a conventional 'box.
Not only that, but where's the pleasure in flicking a paddle?

[Kitdy]

Furthermore Lambos have never been about racing, mister Ferruccio himself was firmly against racing.

I never knew that. Know why he was against racing?


It took a FIA GT win earlier this year and again finished second this weekend in Romania. Taking a win at Le Mans is no so much about the car, but more about the team that prepares the car; there is no equal of Pratt & Miller today. Prodrive is the only one that gets close.

Who do Pratt & Miller run, the Corvettes?

[Ferrer]

I never knew that. Know why he was against racing?
Well he just didn't thought it was necessary. He wanted to built the best GTs in the world. That's why nothing came off the Miura Jota project, or the other Wallace specials.

[Wouter Melissen]

Who do Pratt & Miller run, the Corvettes?

Yes they build and run the Corvettes.

[Kitdy]

Well he just didn't thought it was necessary. He wanted to built the best GTs in the world. That's why nothing came off the Miura Jota project, or the other Wallace specials.

To tell the truth, I really don't see the point of racing for the top auto companies (for money - thought evidently there is SOME kind of money to be had from racing or it wouldn't be done sadly) but I feel that these busisnesses should race apart from the money anyways even if it makes no busisness sense - the soul of every performance car should have an ounce of racing into it, a racing heritage of some kind is somehting I admire; Porsche at Le Mans is a reason that I love them.

Racing simply just should be a sport for the sake of any other sport, like hockey, or soccer, or whatever.

So in terms of sheer busisness, maybe Ferrucio made the right choice, but his choice just lacked I dunno, "autosport soul" I guess.

[Wouter Melissen]

Racing simply just should be a sport for the sake of any other sport, like hockey, or soccer, or whatever.

Yes, but it isn't. Racing at the highest level is hugely expensive with the equipment taking up the largest chunk of the expenses. With many other sports, the equipment is relatively cheap, so there is little need for funding.

[Ferrer]

To tell the truth, I really don't see the point of racing for the top auto companies (for money - thought evidently there is SOME kind of money to be had from racing or it wouldn't be done sadly) but I feel that these busisnesses should race apart from the money anyways even if it makes no busisness sense - the soul of every performance car should have an ounce of racing into it, a racing heritage of some kind is somehting I admire; Porsche at Le Mans is a reason that I love them.
I have to disagree. Racing or not the Miura is still a great car. And so is the Ghibli. And the DB5. And we could go on and on. Some cars have racing heritage as an attibute. Others don't. That doesn't make them necessarily worse.

[Kitdy]

Yes, but it isn't. Racing at the highest level is hugely expensive with the equipment taking up the largest chunk of the expenses. With many other sports, the equipment is relatively cheap, so there is little need for funding.

I read on Wikipedia that Audi:


This is the most ambitious and the most expensive project ever undertaken by Audi Motorsport, the Audi R10 project costs Audi $15 Million a year.

That isn't too abd really, considering the price that single sports teams pay for a year. My team in the National Hockey League spends 40 odd million dollars a year; and that is but a single team. With sponsorship, that 15 million can surely be taken down lower and as it is a form of advertising to race it doesn't seem like a particularily exorbident sum of money at all. I mean, look at privately owned F1 teams, sure F1 costs a lot of money but they still have to make a profit sometimes from all the sponsorships or they'd go out of busisness, no?


I have to disagree. Racing or not the Miura is still a great car. And so is the Ghibli. And the DB5. And we could go on and on. Some cars have racing heritage as an attibute. Others don't. That doesn't make them necessarily worse.

Sorry, I was unclear, I don't mean that raacing heritage makes a car better at all, but rather for it enhances the marques image slightly if the cars have a racing heritage. I guess it doesn't make a big deal to me either thinking about it more.

[Wouter Melissen]

Audi's budget for the R10 is easily in excess of 100 million. It might cost $15 million to run the cars, but that doesn't include the development cost.

Hockey teams earn a very large amount with entry tickets and merchandise.

[Kitdy]

Audi's budget for the R10 is easily in excess of 100 million. It might cost $15 million to run the cars, but that doesn't include the development cost.

Hockey teams earn a very large amount with entry tickets and merchandise.

Yes I realize my example is flawed - but I would suppose that the racing companies make SOME money from TV rights too...

Anyways I thought it was just 15 million foolishly. 100 million means that you are entirely correct and racing costs craploads of cash; and unfortunately is not that simple to do. I guess that is why you see as you called them so many semi-works teams out there. Prodrive in past with Aston Martin, Pratt & Miller with GM, and Penske with Porsche.

[McReis]

just calculate the gains on the 1/4 mile:D
Sure. So much can happen on those 142 miliseconds...

[derekthetree]

Yes, but it isn't. Racing at the highest level is hugely expensive with the equipment taking up the largest chunk of the expenses. With many other sports, the equipment is relatively cheap, so there is little need for funding.

football aswell perhaps?? those balls are very expensive you know :)

[ruim20]

Sure. So much can happen on those 142 miliseconds...

go and ask thoose who lost a race by 142 miliseconds ;)

[McReis]

go and ask thoose who lost a race by 142 miliseconds ;)
And there are so many of them...

[M Division]

Why is it not RWD??!!

[McReis]

Why is it not RWD??!!
Because there is a transmission connecting the gearbox to the front wheels.

[Ferrer]

Because there is a transmission connecting the gearbox to the front wheels.
Big LOL. :D :D :D

Actually it's Audi's fault.

[jediali]

is it really audis fault>

audi bought lambo in 98 yet wasnt there a 4wd diablo available in 93?

for the muircie -
http://www.autozine.org/html/Lamborghini/Murcielago.html:
"Basically the mechanical layout remains unchanged from Diablo 6.0. For example, the double-wishbones suspensions and the mandatory 4-wheel-drive system with viscous-coupling center differential are almost unaltered."

[Ferrer]

is it really audis fault>

audi bought lambo in 98 yet wasnt there a 4wd diablo available in 93?

for the muircie -
http://www.autozine.org/html/Lamborghini/Murcielago.html:
"Basically the mechanical layout remains unchanged from Diablo 6.0. For example, the double-wishbones suspensions and the mandatory 4-wheel-drive system with viscous-coupling center differential are almost unaltered."
Yes, the VT Diablo was made before Audi, but they still made rear wheel drive Diablo SVs and GTs over the years. Yet apparently now "four-wheel drive is now an integral part of the Lamborghini DNA". BS if you ask me.

[jediali]

Yes, the VT Diablo was made before Audi, but they still made rear wheel drive Diablo SVs and GTs over the years. Yet apparently now "four-wheel drive is now an integral part of the Lamborghini DNA". BS if you ask me.

yes i agree. The murciallagoeo is still viscous coupling (so is the gallardo) unlike the typical Torsen center differential in audi quattro, so why do they do it? I think it has most to do with marketing.

[Ferrer]

yes i agree. The murciallagoeo is still viscous coupling (so is the gallardo) unlike the typical Torsen center differential in audi quattro, so why do they do it? I think it has most to do with marketing.
Some people wouldn't know how to manage a premium historical brand even if someone told them how to do so... :rolleyes:

[F1_Master]

Yes, the VT Diablo was made before Audi, but they still made rear wheel drive Diablo SVs and GTs over the years. Yet apparently now "four-wheel drive is now an integral part of the Lamborghini DNA". BS if you ask me.

So true. The only Lamborghini today without ViscousTraction is the R-GT in the FIA to comply.

I remember LoD did tell me, there is a way to manipulate the car into driving like a RWD Lamborghini, however, it is extensive (and expensive) work, and the factory won't allow them to do it. What a pity.

[Ferrer]

Is the GT3 Gallardo four wheel drive?

[The_Canuck]

Is the GT3 Gallardo four wheel drive?

The Superleggara?

[Jack_Bauer]

Is the GT3 Gallardo four wheel drive?

Judging from the this from the team that runs a GT3 Gallardo, I'd say rear wheel drive. There is mention of a rear diff, but no mention of a front diff...

http://www.s-bergracing.at/index.php?id=163

[Kitdy]

The Superleggara?

The race car... I think.

[Ferrer]

The Superleggara?
No, the GT3 racer.

Judging from the this from the team that runs a GT3 Gallardo, I'd say rear wheel drive. There is mention of a rear diff, but no mention of a front diff...

http://www.s-bergracing.at/index.php?id=163
That would make it the second current rear drive Lamborghini.

[2ndclasscitizen]

Some people wouldn't know how to manage a premium historical brand even if someone told them how to do so... :rolleyes:

Yeah, like making it profitable by simplifying model ranges and making cars more drivable, how dare they.

[F1_Master]

Is the GT3 Gallardo four wheel drive?

I'm not sure, but I'll check for you.

[Ferrer]

Yeah, like making it profitable by simplifying model ranges and making cars more drivable, how dare they.
Lamborghini's aren't about ease to drive and those things. They are mad, shouty, noisy and with doors that open vertically. I want that. Not some Audi with a Lamborghini badge. And we could also discuss Bentley and Bugatti... :rolleyes:

[2ndclasscitizen]

Lamborghini's aren't about ease to drive and those things. They are mad, shouty, noisy and with doors that open vertically. I want that. Not some Audi with a Lamborghini badge. And we could also discuss Bentley and Bugatti... :rolleyes:

Poor you. I think Lambo will get over it.

[Ferrer]

Poor you. I think Lambo will get over it.
I think the takeover by Porsche will confuse things even more...